Tip!! You can solder the jet hole and then drill to a smaller size. Works great for us cheap people and or hard to find jets. Also a oxy torch tip cleaner kit works great for that fine tuning that in-between jet size that you cant buy.
I new a guy who would take an extra set of oversized or pre drilled large jets, silver solder, a lighter & an indexed drill but set with him on motorcycle trips to South and Central America. Roughly you put some solder in the jet heat it with a lighter until it flows into the orifice. Then use the indexed drill to make the jet you require. I'm unsure how he turned the drill bits. Maybe a T-handle or possibly hand. The silver solder has a very low melt temperature and is soft enough that it wouldn't be much effort to drill by fingertips.
@nustar1 I use a drill. If you take the ink tube and trim off a bit that don't have ink. You chuck it in the just slightly tight. Then put drill bit in the tube and tighten. Most chucks won't close tight enough to spin those bits. They have a special hand held drill that is powered by your wrist.... it works but I always break the bits. Easier to use power drill and lay it on the bench. Then hold the jet with your fingers and push the jet towards the bit.
I'm thinking you should try and change the weights in the cvt, you get a good launch, but then when the cvt starts to kick in, the rpms drop and the engine starts to lug down with the load. Keep the rpms up a bit and the transition, and I bet you'll get into the 20's for the 0-60. Love this project!
Not one bit ashamed to admit I see this alert for the show and hop right to it to see the updates on this car. I love the ingenuity that you all employ when putting this machine together. I love that you are doing this with basic tools and equipment. This show captivates and sparks my imagination. I dream of a time we can go back to simple cars like this that we can all modify. Imagine doing this with a 2009 Cadillac? Love this channel.
I don't know how I ended up on this channel, but man did it bring back loads of childhood memories :) My dad was the proud owner of a Renault 10 in the early 70's, and we did many family trips in it, the last one even with a caravan on tow half way through Scandinavia to the Arctic circle to experience midnight sun. You probably know this, but the original had a 1,1 liter water cooled straight 4, and it's claim to fame was the anti pick locking mechanism, the first car to have that. The original watercooler had a almost 1 liter expansion tank made of thick glass, and when that goes pop, it does so in a very audible way!! Greetings from Copenhagen Denmark.
I'm glad this little car brings back good memories. When I was taking this car apart and discovered the glass overflow tank.... I figured it was something someone had added to the car because no serous manufacturer would do such a thing... I guess I was wrong... LOL.
Yes. I would hate for him to ever lose that transmission but if he did he can make a rear axle. From scratch and just use the CVT or get a gearbox from a gasoline golf cart they are certainly strong enough for that
@@ronalddaub9740I think gear ratio would become a limiting factor though. Would be interesting to do the math, especially if we knew what the existing final drive ratio was. I can't remember if he covered that somewhere, I know he recently went over the individual ratios in the transmission, not sure about final drive
That gearbox is definitely eating some power at this point maybe putting some thinner oil inside it would help it doesn’t need thick oil for this amount of torque maybe even diesel would be enough lubrication. And ideed the torque converter should be adjusted untill the engine stays at max horsepower rpm all the way from start to finish when launching
@@teammouse I don't know that it's eating up so much, that losing it and redesigning the system is going to be much more efficient. It's such a small gearbox that there's not much to it, and I'm unsure of a way it could be simplified without totally limiting the car with a singular ratio, that would take extensive testing to find the optimum ratio. Also, seeing as it's mostly being driven on flat ground, I'd assume the slightest hill would require a much higher gear ratio to actually be able to climb, the ratios available from the CVT won't be able to drop it enough, while also retaining the top speed it has, if you limited it to the single ratio option. Even a 2 speed gearbox, might work. But you're still going to be losing some in it, and adding an extra layer of complexity that may not work well with the production cycle of his videos. If any of that makes sense? Not saying its impossible, if you have some ideas, I'm down to discuss a little, maybe we can give Jimbo some good ideas for the future.
I think what happened is, adding the open spacer cut the signal to the carburetor, making low speed fuel metering harder for the carburetor. But it helped overall flow at higher engine rpm’s. Sense this engine is rpm limited, I’d increase the air flow of the carburetor and increase the intake runner length. This should allow better cylinder filling at lower engine speeds and create better torque. Are you planning on a cam upgrade? More lift and duration on your camshaft would also increase performance. 😁
Another great video, thanks for posting! The bog down at low rpm, is like the difference between single and dual plane manifolds I used to play with on my Ford 302’s. Single plane (wide open inside the manifold) would be terrible for low rpm torque but would scream top end. The dual plane manifold (separates the intake runners) gives way more low rpm torque and throttle response but would limit that high rpm performance. I’m thinking maybe you simulated a single plane manifold by opening up the intake ports together?
@@drippingwax i’m sure there’s a way to do anything. But with the single plain manifold on those old carbureted, V-8‘s, what you would normally do is use a high stall torque converter, so you can get the engine into its power band before the converter builds up enough pressure to start moving the vehicle.
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Something often overlooked when switching from factory air filtration is consideration for the total filter area needed to not only allow enough airflow to the engine in question to properly breathe, but also maximize the time between filter service intervals to prevent clogging, which will hurt engine performance more severely than the factory air cleaner assembly ever could... even if it has a filter that's halfway between service intervals.😕
I feel like this would be wicked easy to fuel inject using a small throttle body, a fuel injector, an MAF and O2 sensor off a junked vehicle, and a Raspberry Pi Pico/ESP32. Since you seem to be happy running with the "hood" open, I'd also replace the 90° elbows in the intake with a combined straight unit and mount the TB vertically - downdraught TBI, basically. I'd also shield the back half of the filter cone to prevent air starvation at higher speeds due to pressure differential.
Amazing thing about watching these is the excitement when it does the 0-55 in less time than it takes me to roll out of bed in the morning. I have cars that can do it in less than 4 seconds, but somehow it still feels like an achievement 🎉
You’ve effectively increased the carb bore size relationship per cylinder and typically, this equates to more torque at higher RPMs. Which would explain the anemic launch. Depending upon gearing and other factors, motorcycles with in-line 4’s with smaller carbs produce fast launches and kinda peter out in the higher revs.
My experience in tuning and drag racing N/A Hondas has taught me that Intake runner length or length of cold air intake pipe has a dramatic effect on torque curves as well.
@@4krist Yea, you're right, I was was thinking exhaust powered and wrote something else. How would one grab rotational forces from the crank in that setup? Duh. Thanks.
I once owned a 2001 base Civic (no AC stick shift) used for 140 daily commute to and from work and it would get 40-44 mpg depending on speed. It probably wasn't much faster or more comfortable than your Renault, so good job.
Nice to see an increase in efficiency. I think this kind of car would be great for someone who doesn't care about speed and only wants to get from A to B without spending a fortune on gas. This project proves that you don't have to drive fast to have fun.
@@kaydog890the problem is modern cars are so complicated with computers the average person can't work on them. This is such a simple engine with very little to go wrong.
Yamaha did this 'double carburettor'-thing on their V-Max back in 1985. In this setup, a butterfly valve between the 2 carb banks remained shut up to 6000 rpm. After that, all 4 cylinders got to breathe through double the amount of carbs (well in a way) which made for spirited acceleration and - obviously - more power. Let's face it, 145 horses was a LOT back in the day! Like others say, at low rpm the air velocity through the carbs is too low, making for rubbish fueling. My guess is it'll run quicker to 50 mph without the spacer, but run out of breath over 50 mph. Looking forward to updates! 😀
I believe you made the fuel mileage improvements from going to a smaller jet. The cross flow spacer changed the airflow dinamics of the intake and moved the powerband up in the rpm range. Which explains the soft start, but it's making more power in the higher revs helping the 0-55 times. A good example of what you did is the difference between "dual plane" & "single plane" manifolds on American V8's
Tinkercad tip: When making round things, add more sides in the cylinder settings (64 is max). This makes round objects less jagged and more refined, and would probably seal better.
Jimbo, you may want to radius the Area between runners in the carb and in the 90° elbow to aid laminar flow. Bet it’s worth at least a burro power or three.
The only problem I have with your videos is they are over before I am ready to quit watching! lol Thanks for all the work you put in to entertain and educate us. Phil
Honestly this makes me wish my dad didn't wreck his geo in 1999. The 50 mpg those 3 cylinder metros got was awesome. Acceleration was horrible but only having to fill up once a month more than made up for it
Growing up I watched a lot of PBS and your show really carries the spirit of entertaining educational programing . I vote that you port the exhaust and print a new spacer that integrates into that 90* elbow to get an even larger crossflow. Can't wait to see the next episode Jimbo
My guess, and it seems that others are leaning towards it too, is that you gained volume but lost velocity. So the low end isn't "tumbling" as much as before and only once you get to the higher RPM does the tumble come back into effect. You're effectively tuning for a specific (higher) RPM. Would also explain the difference in AFR.
I love the project and the operators standing by bit was really funny! Next time you have to make a small screw hole in a gasket, chuck a hole punch(the kind you usually smack with a hammer) up in your drill press and drill/cut the hole, it give you a real nice, clean hole. I had a '67 r-10, great car.
How to clear your desk. Here’s the system: 1. First, take everything on your desk and in your drawers, and put them in one big pile. Put it in your “in basket” (if it doesn’t fit, pile it next to your desk or something). From now on, everything that comes in must go in your in basket, and you process everything as below. 2. Process this pile from the top down. Never re-sort, never skip a single piece of paper, never put a piece of paper back on the pile. Do what needs to be done with that paper, and then move on to the next in the pile. The options: trash it, delegate it, file it, do it, or put it on a list to do later. In that order of preference. Do it if it takes 2 minutes or less to complete. If it takes more, and you can’t trash, delegate or file it, then put it on a list of to-dos (more on your to-do list in another post). 3. Repeat at least once daily to keep desk clear. The end of the day is best, but I tend to process and tidy up as I go through the day. Once you’ve processed your pile, your desk is clear. You’ve trashed or filed or somehow put everything where it belongs (not on top of your desk or stashed in a drawer). Keep it that way. You must follow the system above: put everything in your inbox, then take action on each piece of paper in the inbox with one of the steps listed. If an item is on your to-do list, you can keep the paper associated with it in an “Action” folder. But you must regularly (daily or weekly) go through this folder to ensure that everything is purged. It’s that simple. Have a phone number on a post-it? Don’t leave it on top of your desk. File it in your rolodex or contacts program. Have something you need to work on later? Don’t keep the papers on top of your desk. Put it on your to-do list, and file the papers in your Action folder. File or trash or delegate everything else. Leaving stuff on top of your desk is procrastination (and as a procrastinator, I should know). If you put it off until later, things will be sure to pile up on your desk. Deal with them immediately, make a decision, take action. What I’ve described is a good habit to learn, but it takes time to learn it. You’ll slip. Just remind yourself, and then do it. Soon it’ll be a habit you have a hard time breaking. And trust me, once you’re used to your desk being clear, you won’t want to break this habit.
Nice hearing the shout out to Red Beards Garage and Cars and Cameras iv'e learned a ton of information from both of them. This channel is above my mechanical skills only due to lack of tools and equipment so go karts and minibikes it is lol.
I fully expected the cross flow spacer to reduce performance because of the turbulent airflow and figure that a bore matched throttle spacer would have given better gains... But here we are with gains all the same. Can't wait to see you try without the spacer to pin down where the gains were made. Keep up the solid work!
It would have been interesting to see how original aircleaner affects to mixture. Some cheap free flow "powerfilters" have terrible flow but cool looks. Keep up the good work 👍
Interesting how things change with carburetors with a few adjustments. I'd love to see how it'll do with a Holley 2 barrel 380 cfm carb. 🤔 In any case, nice work Jimbo!! 💪🔥
That would make for an interesting addition. I would imagine making up an adapter would not present too big a problem. Something else to consider is putting on a scoop to get a bit of ram air working.
Try some spent brass shells next time when making bolt holes in your gasket material. They make great punches, just keep different calibers around for different sized holes.
I love this channel! Jimbo you do some great work, and I hesitate to do this, but if you haven’t already done so go see a dermatologist and have them check out those couple spots on your right forearm. I lost a good friend about five years ago to skin cancer. He never thought much about some spots on his arms before they became a bigger problem. I’m sorry if I’ve overstepped the fan line.
I know it might sound crazy, but I'd kind of like to see an EFI and a turbo on that. Especially since it's almost in a "daily driver" state, at least for city commutes. I absolutely love your re-engine series, always happy when I see a notification popping up.
I would not have expected that just the spacer by itself would have made that big of a difference in MPG and I did expected it to hurt performance, or at least change it. Interesting. I think cleaning and opening up the intake path would a good logical step, and as someone already mentioned, do away with the short, sharp 90 degree bends, if possible. Keep up the good work!
If the AFR is richer that might mean that the modifications have created a restriction. Ideally you would want to see the engine running leaner which would indicate more airflow. I would do some more testing without the spacer to see what happens. The air filter may even be more restrictive than the factory one. Enjoying the project!
Hello from Detroit Michigan brother thank you for sharing your knowledge and expertise and for taking us on your adventure through Mechanical engineering
im a motorcycle guy so this is a common thing, what is happening is there's more air so you will have a higher vacuum at WOT but less down low due too a less restrictive intake how you fix this is upsize the starter jet/secondary what ever you want too call it go up 2 sizes on that too compensate for the increased air flow across the main (one thing we do is socking a pod literally put a sock on the pod) this proves over vacuum and will almost always increase power on the low end, also helps lean down a mixture 2 or so main sizes ex is socked pods on a 1100 vstar is 17.5/145 and a 3.75 pms or 20/138 2.5pms( stock setup is .7mm lower on the needle with 17.5/110@3.0 on the pms) both have alot more power overstock but the second option handles more like stock with grunt down low and a bit stronger top end while staying in an ideal afr.......and were your running a cvt the 1500-3300 rpm range is were you need power
A single 35-41mm downdraft carb mounted to a spacer manifold bolted on top of the stock intake would get rid of several of those turns the air fuel has to manage before entering the combustion chambers,plus gets the carb further away feom the engines heat that the stock carb encounters by being mounted between the cylinders..plus better airflow to the carb..
You can hear the engine bog down after the CVT runs out of travel, ie, it needs stronger springs to keep a lower ratio for longer so the rpm stays higher. Those primary pipes are too big, so you are leaving torque on the table. A NASCAR exh guy made 1¾" pipes for a NASCAR engine and still made 905hp@9000rpm, ie, the best pipes are smaller than you think.
how effective primary's are in influencing best power on a engine has a TON to do with the intake manifold and cam timing. Basically larger exhaust only hurts when you have a super high VE engine with very large amount of overlap. for a lawn mower engine, primary size isn't likely to hurt anything.
@@seancollins9745 It is a low performance engine, so you are probably right, but if you punch the numbers it's a VE of 85% to make 25hp, and that's enough for me to look at pipe sizes. If you watch the start of the vid you can hear it bog-down in the middle, and smaller pipe could fill that in somewhat. He doesn't give enough specs to work out pipe dia, but I would say 1"-1.125" for 5000rpm peak, smaller for less rpm - had too many customers with too large pipes, and every-time we design the correct pipe, ie, usually smaller, the thing goes faster -.
@@SidneyCritic years of dyno testing tell me that, low cylinder count engines do best with the least back press possible. given the firing order, there's probably nothing to get.
To increase power, you need to increase the air density. Get the air filter up higher into cool air and put a scoop on it to ram more air in. As others have said, if you can eliminate the 90 degree bend at the carb, that would help. How about a tunnel ram?
you don't need a car any faster than that. I think for most of the folks this would be ideal because they can floor it all the time...and they wouldn't complain about the high fuel consumption. I would like to see more of your Insight. my guess is most of your subs became aware of your channel through this car. Thank you good sir.
Actual both things helped. Dual plane intakes create more low end toque while open plenum intakes (which is what you have with the spacer ) breath better in the upper RPM range. Your results are typical for this change. It's all about the signal the carburetor is receiving that determent how it will perform.
Tinkercad tip: when you create a cylinder, max out the number of faces on the cylinder and it will look really nice and round instead of having the distinguishable sides like in the air filter adapter print.
Try reducing the wheight of the rollers in the cvt transmision, or using a stiffer spring on the cvt pulley, the car when launching drops the rpm due to a soft spring or hevy weights in the cvt, try playing with that to see if the acceleration improves, the idea is to keep the cvt working in peak rpm engine power. Also try installing a taller carburettor spacer same as you created but taller, to let the engine suck better from the carb, also with a dremmel work on the edges of the holes of the intake manifold to improve intake flow
Jimbo, I was with you on the CVT clutches up until this episode. I genuinely think you are right and that CVTs have made more sense up to this point...but we've now seen that this engine has enough power to start the car out in 3rd gear, with the CVT only creating a reduction equivalent to starting out in first...and now you have an engine that is trending toward it's power band being slightly higher in its rev range...I think you may have just crossed the line where you might genuinely get better fuel efficiency and acceleration both from switching to a centrifugal clutch over a CVT. Just a thought, I have definietly not been a CVT critic from the beginning, I love CVTs...but this is just what my intuition is telling me on the numbers you're putting out. Just a thought, thanks for the awesome content, as always. You're an inspiration :)
many thanks for showing the fuel consumption numbers. i kinda want to use one of these engines for an on road project when i will have money to waste so it's really nice to be able to see what kind of mpg i could get.
I don’t know if you have any firearms but find a buddy that does and have him save you some different sized empty shell casings. They work great for punches for all the little holes when you’re making gaskets 👍 love the Sunday videos, it’s my version of going to church 😂
The spacer made me remember the old VW air cooled world where they had 2 barrel carb manifolds with a runner for each side and manifolds with a plenum before it split to each side.
A mod worth considering is taking of the cylinders and pistons, match the weight of the conrods, pistons. Maybe even trying to shave the maximum weight of the pistons, like the casting remains under the underside and maybe making them accelerate faster. Drilling the conrods with a 3 - 4 mm drills to make them light yet remain durable. Lol, 1 billion. 12:01 seams like a drop in power and than it start picking up again, like it has to think what to do.
Jimbo nice job 1. you can try an crosflow spacer before the ¿manifold ? the thing you screw the carb. I see 3 options one or other or both. I think you gain tork in the higth revs with the crosflow. 2. Need more fuel yes. love your work
I would like to see flatter fasteners on the throttle plate. Those existing screws are certainly bad for air flow. That should bring the mpg up by 0.00001% :)
Always design and optimize your air intake tract to take advantage of pulse wave reflection. Its easy to find information, and affects intake runner diameter and length, AND a plenum chamber relative to the desired rpm range. A well designed intake manifold tract can get an Naturally Apsirated engine up to near 100% volumetric efficiency, its like free super charging.
The CVT sounds like it was bogging the engine down during the 0-55, maybe it could do with adjusting the weights or springs or whatever it uses to keep the RPMs constant, as most CVTs I've heard tend to keep the RPMs about the same up until the pulleys are fully closed or embiggened and then the revs go up cos it's in top gear...
It seems like your CVT needs tuned, like with lighter weights so it can stay in the power band on launch. Not sure how easy that is for you to do on that thing but that’s my observation
I'm thinking the cross flow is more helpful at high rpms. The vmax motorcycles have a valve they call v boost that opens between two cylinders at 6000 rpm and when it opens it feels like the engine got sprayed with nitrous.
As always you knock it out of the park. Very interesting, fun and entertaining video. Will be fun to watch the next modification for sure. Have a super week, God bless.
I think that combining the intake manifolds are bad thing, because as carsandcameras did they run into esue that the mixture was not properly distributed.🫤(one cylinder ran super lean)😐 But in your case , you did not change much, so I assume that the mixture will flow almost same plus the spacer will synchronize the pressures so in your case it could help.👍 Love your videos ❤️
We tend to focus on unlikely engine swaps. The lawn mower or industrial engines that we use are not the best choices... and that's what makes it fun. The Renault can be driven at full throttle and most of the time we wont be breaking the speed limit.
I think it would've been better experimentally if you evened out the jets before installing the carburetor spacer because you said that they were jetted unevenly for the old muffler. Although you'll probably still want to tune the sides separately due to the unequal exhaust header lengths.
Thanks again for more personal motivation. I started learning about additive manufacturing myself a little over a year ago and it really adds to the abilities in a lot of places. I'm only on a little Ender 3, but it's a cool journey.
One of the few channels where you don't want the episode to end.
Solid work, Jimbo.
Ditto!!
Another Sunday morning kicked off with the best show on TH-cam!
best show on the internet, second best sunday uploader
and i say second best cause mustie1 is "mustie 1" for a reason
Right!!!! My daughter and I enjoy watching "the weird engine swap guy" on the weekend. 😊
@@NeverEnoughRally
wait, your daughter calls RC "the weird engine swap guy"?
thats wholesome
and funny
@@djaydeved she does. She was also the one that guessed the top speed of 179mph towards the beginning of the series. I do love her optimism! 😂
@@NeverEnoughRally that's a very optimistic young lady lol
Free Bird Plays in my head every time you floor that V twin!!
That would be epic! I wish I could play that in my videos, but TH-cam would give me a copyright strike.
Tip!! You can solder the jet hole and then drill to a smaller size. Works great for us cheap people and or hard to find jets. Also a oxy torch tip cleaner kit works great for that fine tuning that in-between jet size that you cant buy.
I new a guy who would take an extra set of oversized or pre drilled large jets, silver solder, a lighter & an indexed drill but set with him on motorcycle trips to South and Central America. Roughly you put some solder in the jet heat it with a lighter until it flows into the orifice. Then use the indexed drill to make the jet you require. I'm unsure how he turned the drill bits. Maybe a T-handle or possibly hand. The silver solder has a very low melt temperature and is soft enough that it wouldn't be much effort to drill by fingertips.
@nustar1 I use a drill. If you take the ink tube and trim off a bit that don't have ink. You chuck it in the just slightly tight. Then put drill bit in the tube and tighten. Most chucks won't close tight enough to spin those bits. They have a special hand held drill that is powered by your wrist.... it works but I always break the bits. Easier to use power drill and lay it on the bench. Then hold the jet with your fingers and push the jet towards the bit.
I'm thinking you should try and change the weights in the cvt, you get a good launch, but then when the cvt starts to kick in, the rpms drop and the engine starts to lug down with the load. Keep the rpms up a bit and the transition, and I bet you'll get into the 20's for the 0-60. Love this project!
Not one bit ashamed to admit I see this alert for the show and hop right to it to see the updates on this car. I love the ingenuity that you all employ when putting this machine together. I love that you are doing this with basic tools and equipment. This show captivates and sparks my imagination. I dream of a time we can go back to simple cars like this that we can all modify. Imagine doing this with a 2009 Cadillac? Love this channel.
just rip out the engine and put a predator in ... easy :D
I don't know how I ended up on this channel, but man did it bring back loads of childhood memories :)
My dad was the proud owner of a Renault 10 in the early 70's, and we did many family trips in it, the last one even with a caravan on tow half way through Scandinavia to the Arctic circle to experience midnight sun. You probably know this, but the original had a 1,1 liter water cooled straight 4, and it's claim to fame was the anti pick locking mechanism, the first car to have that. The original watercooler had a almost 1 liter expansion tank made of thick glass, and when that goes pop, it does so in a very audible way!!
Greetings from Copenhagen Denmark.
I'm glad this little car brings back good memories. When I was taking this car apart and discovered the glass overflow tank.... I figured it was something someone had added to the car because no serous manufacturer would do such a thing... I guess I was wrong... LOL.
@@robotcantina8957 olds used Pepto bottles …..
You could also experiment with adjusting the rollers/weights in the CVT to match the max power rpms better.
Yes. I would hate for him to ever lose that transmission but if he did he can make a rear axle. From scratch and just use the CVT or get a gearbox from a gasoline golf cart they are certainly strong enough for that
@@ronalddaub9740I think gear ratio would become a limiting factor though. Would be interesting to do the math, especially if we knew what the existing final drive ratio was. I can't remember if he covered that somewhere, I know he recently went over the individual ratios in the transmission, not sure about final drive
Remember that golf cars with high speed gears only can do about 35-40ish Mph, half that normally.
That gearbox is definitely eating some power at this point maybe putting some thinner oil inside it would help it doesn’t need thick oil for this amount of torque maybe even diesel would be enough lubrication. And ideed the torque converter should be adjusted untill the engine stays at max horsepower rpm all the way from start to finish when launching
@@teammouse I don't know that it's eating up so much, that losing it and redesigning the system is going to be much more efficient. It's such a small gearbox that there's not much to it, and I'm unsure of a way it could be simplified without totally limiting the car with a singular ratio, that would take extensive testing to find the optimum ratio. Also, seeing as it's mostly being driven on flat ground, I'd assume the slightest hill would require a much higher gear ratio to actually be able to climb, the ratios available from the CVT won't be able to drop it enough, while also retaining the top speed it has, if you limited it to the single ratio option.
Even a 2 speed gearbox, might work. But you're still going to be losing some in it, and adding an extra layer of complexity that may not work well with the production cycle of his videos. If any of that makes sense?
Not saying its impossible, if you have some ideas, I'm down to discuss a little, maybe we can give Jimbo some good ideas for the future.
I think what happened is, adding the open spacer cut the signal to the carburetor, making low speed fuel metering harder for the carburetor. But it helped overall flow at higher engine rpm’s. Sense this engine is rpm limited, I’d increase the air flow of the carburetor and increase the intake runner length. This should allow better cylinder filling at lower engine speeds and create better torque. Are you planning on a cam upgrade? More lift and duration on your camshaft would also increase performance. 😁
I think the reduced barrel flow changes the mix and carb tuning, compensating with higher flow using rpm might be valid. 🤔
These predators all of them have a mechanical RPM governer and an electronic ignition based rpm limit aswell,
FT ..................I think he took it out ????@@flavortown3781
@@flavortown3781I didn't think these predators had a CDI did they? Also I'm pretty sure he detached the governor
@@flavortown3781he disabled the governor.
Another great video, thanks for posting! The bog down at low rpm, is like the difference between single and dual plane manifolds I used to play with on my Ford 302’s. Single plane (wide open inside the manifold) would be terrible for low rpm torque but would scream top end. The dual plane manifold (separates the intake runners) gives way more low rpm torque and throttle response but would limit that high rpm performance. I’m thinking maybe you simulated a single plane manifold by opening up the intake ports together?
Is there any way to design something that goes from two to one automatically? :D
@@drippingwax i’m sure there’s a way to do anything. But with the single plain manifold on those old carbureted, V-8‘s, what you would normally do is use a high stall torque converter, so you can get the engine into its power band before the converter builds up enough pressure to start moving the vehicle.
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Blake's Orchards, Armada, MI
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Detroit Red Wings hockey game
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Something often overlooked when switching from factory air filtration is consideration for the total filter area needed to not only allow enough airflow to the engine in question to properly breathe, but also maximize the time between filter service intervals to prevent clogging, which will hurt engine performance more severely than the factory air cleaner assembly ever could... even if it has a filter that's halfway between service intervals.😕
I feel like this would be wicked easy to fuel inject using a small throttle body, a fuel injector, an MAF and O2 sensor off a junked vehicle, and a Raspberry Pi Pico/ESP32. Since you seem to be happy running with the "hood" open, I'd also replace the 90° elbows in the intake with a combined straight unit and mount the TB vertically - downdraught TBI, basically. I'd also shield the back half of the filter cone to prevent air starvation at higher speeds due to pressure differential.
The contribution to science on this channel is commendable.😎
Amazing thing about watching these is the excitement when it does the 0-55 in less time than it takes me to roll out of bed in the morning. I have cars that can do it in less than 4 seconds, but somehow it still feels like an achievement 🎉
You’ve effectively increased the carb bore size relationship per cylinder and typically, this equates to more torque at higher RPMs. Which would explain the anemic launch. Depending upon gearing and other factors, motorcycles with in-line 4’s with smaller carbs produce fast launches and kinda peter out in the higher revs.
My experience in tuning and drag racing N/A Hondas has taught me that Intake runner length or length of cold air intake pipe has a dramatic effect on torque curves as well.
@@jeffcard3623 I’d like to see him supercharge this sucker.
@@MotoRestoFL in this engine, turbo is posible and better idea 😁
@@4krist Yea, you're right, I was was thinking exhaust powered and wrote something else. How would one grab rotational forces from the crank in that setup? Duh. Thanks.
@@MotoRestoFL
670cc have a oil pump, so he can lubricate turbo 😁
220cc does not have a pump, so only supercharger
Thanks for converting freedom eagles into metric for the rest of us. Makes everything so much more relatable!
I once owned a 2001 base Civic (no AC stick shift) used for 140 daily commute to and from work and it would get 40-44 mpg depending on speed. It probably wasn't much faster or more comfortable than your Renault, so good job.
Really be interesting to see how this engine swap would do in the 24 Hours of Lemons! 🍋
A little engineering + a little entertainment = a lot of 'engrtainment!' Enjoying this build a bunch. Thanks.
It's always a joy watching Jimbo drive this boxy little Renault. This is fast becoming my favorite car on this channel.
Hey Jimbo, just love your humor. Thanks for another great Sunday video.
Greetings from Switzerland.
👍💪✌
Thanks!
This is the kind of content the youtube was made for. Never been so happy to see a car reach 55 in 33 second.
While buying all the parts is super easy, I like the idea of the challenge of designing something yourself, and making it work. More fun that way.
Very true!
Since it stays at a low rpm range you could probably lengthen the intake runners to make a tuned intake, like a TPI.
There’s a lot of math that goes into that with intake harmonics. Since this engine is small he should really try revving it out further.
I'll be darned that's what I just told him that's what I said
I agree about getting the most performance but I also love it when I just have a good drivability and feeling about it
You should put a cold air intake on it anyway and do away with that air filter use a k&n cold air intake,air filter
@@ethanpeschman4458 If I was to tune port it I would just scale down a working system.
Nice to see an increase in efficiency. I think this kind of car would be great for someone who doesn't care about speed and only wants to get from A to B without spending a fortune on gas. This project proves that you don't have to drive fast to have fun.
A modern car will do 90+ mph and achieve the same fuel economy around town..
I like it more from an after EMP vehicle.
A Kei car basically
@@kaydog890the problem is modern cars are so complicated with computers the average person can't work on them. This is such a simple engine with very little to go wrong.
Thanks for the update, when I first landed on your channel I was a bit confused but now I totally get it and i'm addicted ! Cheers
Being confused is the first step. I'm glad you made it passed that.
Bringing new life to an old car with a simplistic engine that has a current parts run.
Yamaha did this 'double carburettor'-thing on their V-Max back in 1985. In this setup, a butterfly valve between the 2 carb banks remained shut up to 6000 rpm. After that, all 4 cylinders got to breathe through double the amount of carbs (well in a way) which made for spirited acceleration and - obviously - more power. Let's face it, 145 horses was a LOT back in the day!
Like others say, at low rpm the air velocity through the carbs is too low, making for rubbish fueling. My guess is it'll run quicker to 50 mph without the spacer, but run out of breath over 50 mph. Looking forward to updates! 😀
I believe you made the fuel mileage improvements from going to a smaller jet. The cross flow spacer changed the airflow dinamics of the intake and moved the powerband up in the rpm range. Which explains the soft start, but it's making more power in the higher revs helping the 0-55 times. A good example of what you did is the difference between "dual plane" & "single plane" manifolds on American V8's
Tinkercad tip: When making round things, add more sides in the cylinder settings (64 is max). This makes round objects less jagged and more refined, and would probably seal better.
Thanks, I didn't know about that feature, I just tried it and as you already know its awesome!
@@robotcantina8957 Glad I could contribute. Love your videos!
My Sunday morning cars and coffee! 👍🏼👍🏼
Jimbo, you may want to radius the Area between runners in the carb and in the 90° elbow to aid laminar flow. Bet it’s worth at least a burro power or three.
You created a v boost system just like the legendary Yamaha V-max. Nice!
The only problem I have with your videos is they are over before I am ready to quit watching! lol Thanks for all the work you put in to entertain and educate us. Phil
I just wanna add that i’ve rarely ever followed a car series as closely as this. Beautiful concept, and even works pretty well to boot
Glad you like it!
Dude is so quick and easy to take out the spacer and another test run it should be in this vid too😄
Coming soon!
On his quest to a billion subscribers, we should be proud to be one of the first 136k to do so!
Oh!!! I was just about to go to bed….wife wont be happy, especially as I just told her I’m on my way!!! 11:05pm😊
Very nice! I really enjoy your experiments. Many of my own projects start with, 'Huh... I wonder if...?'
Thanks for the videos. Very entertaining and I love your sense of humor!
Growing up with these cars it great to see them on the road again.
Honestly this makes me wish my dad didn't wreck his geo in 1999. The 50 mpg those 3 cylinder metros got was awesome. Acceleration was horrible but only having to fill up once a month more than made up for it
Growing up I watched a lot of PBS and your show really carries the spirit of entertaining educational programing
. I vote that you port the exhaust and print a new spacer that integrates into that 90* elbow to get an even larger crossflow. Can't wait to see the next episode Jimbo
My guess, and it seems that others are leaning towards it too, is that you gained volume but lost velocity. So the low end isn't "tumbling" as much as before and only once you get to the higher RPM does the tumble come back into effect. You're effectively tuning for a specific (higher) RPM. Would also explain the difference in AFR.
I love the project and the operators standing by bit was really funny! Next time you have to make a small screw hole in a gasket, chuck a hole punch(the kind you usually smack with a hammer) up in your drill press and drill/cut the hole, it give you a real nice, clean hole. I had a '67 r-10, great car.
How to clear your desk.
Here’s the system:
1. First, take everything on your desk and in your drawers, and put them in one big pile. Put it in your “in basket” (if it doesn’t fit, pile it next to your desk or something). From now on, everything that comes in must go in your in basket, and you process everything as below.
2. Process this pile from the top down. Never re-sort, never skip a single piece of paper, never put a piece of paper back on the pile. Do what needs to be done with that paper, and then move on to the next in the pile. The options: trash it, delegate it, file it, do it, or put it on a list to do later. In that order of preference. Do it if it takes 2 minutes or less to complete. If it takes more, and you can’t trash, delegate or file it, then put it on a list of to-dos (more on your to-do list in another post).
3. Repeat at least once daily to keep desk clear. The end of the day is best, but I tend to process and tidy up as I go through the day. Once you’ve processed your pile, your desk is clear. You’ve trashed or filed or somehow put everything where it belongs (not on top of your desk or stashed in a drawer). Keep it that way. You must follow the system above: put everything in your inbox, then take action on each piece of paper in the inbox with one of the steps listed. If an item is on your to-do list, you can keep the paper associated with it in an “Action” folder. But you must regularly (daily or weekly) go through this folder to ensure that everything is purged.
It’s that simple. Have a phone number on a post-it? Don’t leave it on top of your desk. File it in your rolodex or contacts program. Have something you need to work on later? Don’t keep the papers on top of your desk. Put it on your to-do list, and file the papers in your Action folder. File or trash or delegate everything else.
Leaving stuff on top of your desk is procrastination (and as a procrastinator, I should know). If you put it off until later, things will be sure to pile up on your desk. Deal with them immediately, make a decision, take action.
What I’ve described is a good habit to learn, but it takes time to learn it. You’ll slip. Just remind yourself, and then do it. Soon it’ll be a habit you have a hard time breaking. And trust me, once you’re used to your desk being clear, you won’t want to break this habit.
and yes , I am a very happy subscriber!
More fun to look forward too. The car seems to perform fairly well in acceleration .
Nice hearing the shout out to Red Beards Garage and Cars and Cameras iv'e learned a ton of information from both of them. This channel is above my mechanical skills only due to lack of tools and equipment so go karts and minibikes it is lol.
Due to a back injury, I cant tolerate the bumpy ride of go karts or mini mikes... So I just make bigger and more comfortable go karts..
I fully expected the cross flow spacer to reduce performance because of the turbulent airflow and figure that a bore matched throttle spacer would have given better gains... But here we are with gains all the same. Can't wait to see you try without the spacer to pin down where the gains were made. Keep up the solid work!
It would have been interesting to see how original aircleaner affects to mixture. Some cheap free flow "powerfilters" have terrible flow but cool looks.
Keep up the good work 👍
Good work as always Jimbo. Can't wait to see where you can take her.
Nice one Jimbo! Obviously the air filter is another factor...
It sure is
Interesting how things change with carburetors with a few adjustments. I'd love to see how it'll do with a Holley 2 barrel 380 cfm carb. 🤔 In any case, nice work Jimbo!! 💪🔥
That would make for an interesting addition. I would imagine making up an adapter would not present too big a problem. Something else to consider is putting on a scoop to get a bit of ram air working.
380cfm is good for 190hp. Id be shocked if he could pull off a quarter of that.
Or… an IDF-40 Weber carb, with 28mm Venturis?
I was thinking the same thing - the smallest vacuum secondary carb you can get and 3D print an adapter
Try some spent brass shells next time when making bolt holes in your gasket material. They make great punches, just keep different calibers around for different sized holes.
I love this channel! Jimbo you do some great work, and I hesitate to do this, but if you haven’t already done so go see a dermatologist and have them check out those couple spots on your right forearm. I lost a good friend about five years ago to skin cancer. He never thought much about some spots on his arms before they became a bigger problem. I’m sorry if I’ve overstepped the fan line.
I'm loving the 3d printed engine jimbo! keep up the good work!
I know it might sound crazy, but I'd kind of like to see an EFI and a turbo on that. Especially since it's almost in a "daily driver" state, at least for city commutes. I absolutely love your re-engine series, always happy when I see a notification popping up.
I would not have expected that just the spacer by itself would have made that big of a difference in MPG and I did expected it to hurt performance, or at least change it. Interesting. I think cleaning and opening up the intake path would a good logical step, and as someone already mentioned, do away with the short, sharp 90 degree bends, if possible. Keep up the good work!
If the AFR is richer that might mean that the modifications have created a restriction. Ideally you would want to see the engine running leaner which would indicate more airflow. I would do some more testing without the spacer to see what happens. The air filter may even be more restrictive than the factory one. Enjoying the project!
Hello from Detroit Michigan brother thank you for sharing your knowledge and expertise and for taking us on your adventure through Mechanical engineering
The Renault is no Maverick with a 200-six, 3-on-tree , but , hey!
im a motorcycle guy so this is a common thing, what is happening is there's more air so you will have a higher vacuum at WOT but less down low due too a less restrictive intake how you fix this is upsize the starter jet/secondary what ever you want too call it go up 2 sizes on that too compensate for the increased air flow across the main (one thing we do is socking a pod literally put a sock on the pod) this proves over vacuum and will almost always increase power on the low end, also helps lean down a mixture 2 or so main sizes ex is socked pods on a 1100 vstar is 17.5/145 and a 3.75 pms or 20/138 2.5pms( stock setup is .7mm lower on the needle with 17.5/110@3.0 on the pms) both have alot more power overstock but the second option handles more like stock with grunt down low and a bit stronger top end while staying in an ideal afr.......and were your running a cvt the 1500-3300 rpm range is were you need power
A single 35-41mm downdraft carb mounted to a spacer manifold bolted on top of the stock intake would get rid of several of those turns the air fuel has to manage before entering the combustion chambers,plus gets the carb further away feom the engines heat that the stock carb encounters by being mounted between the cylinders..plus better airflow to the carb..
Was glad to hear some of the parts from the Saturn found a good new home in 100% Jake's Saturn he fixed up, was right nice of ya!
You can hear the engine bog down after the CVT runs out of travel, ie, it needs stronger springs to keep a lower ratio for longer so the rpm stays higher.
Those primary pipes are too big, so you are leaving torque on the table. A NASCAR exh guy made 1¾" pipes for a NASCAR engine and still made 905hp@9000rpm, ie, the best pipes are smaller than you think.
how effective primary's are in influencing best power on a engine has a TON to do with the intake manifold and cam timing. Basically larger exhaust only hurts when you have a super high VE engine with very large amount of overlap. for a lawn mower engine, primary size isn't likely to hurt anything.
@@seancollins9745 It is a low performance engine, so you are probably right, but if you punch the numbers it's a VE of 85% to make 25hp, and that's enough for me to look at pipe sizes. If you watch the start of the vid you can hear it bog-down in the middle, and smaller pipe could fill that in somewhat. He doesn't give enough specs to work out pipe dia, but I would say 1"-1.125" for 5000rpm peak, smaller for less rpm - had too many customers with too large pipes, and every-time we design the correct pipe, ie, usually smaller, the thing goes faster -.
@@SidneyCritic years of dyno testing tell me that, low cylinder count engines do best with the least back press possible. given the firing order, there's probably nothing to get.
Ah, the Sunday morning shot in the arm that I needed to go finish bleeding the brakes on my BH Outback!
To increase power, you need to increase the air density. Get the air filter up higher into cool air and put a scoop on it to ram more air in. As others have said, if you can eliminate the 90 degree bend at the carb, that would help. How about a tunnel ram?
Oh, put a forward facing snorkle on there and have it coming up to get the ram effect either from the roof or side of car.
you don't need a car any faster than that. I think for most of the folks this would be ideal because they can floor it all the time...and they wouldn't complain about the high fuel consumption.
I would like to see more of your Insight. my guess is most of your subs became aware of your channel through this car.
Thank you good sir.
Actual both things helped. Dual plane intakes create more low end toque while open plenum intakes (which is what you have with the spacer ) breath better in the upper RPM range. Your results are typical for this change. It's all about the signal the carburetor is receiving that determent how it will perform.
Tinkercad tip: when you create a cylinder, max out the number of faces on the cylinder and it will look really nice and round instead of having the distinguishable sides like in the air filter adapter print.
Try reducing the wheight of the rollers in the cvt transmision, or using a stiffer spring on the cvt pulley, the car when launching drops the rpm due to a soft spring or hevy weights in the cvt, try playing with that to see if the acceleration improves, the idea is to keep the cvt working in peak rpm engine power. Also try installing a taller carburettor spacer same as you created but taller, to let the engine suck better from the carb, also with a dremmel work on the edges of the holes of the intake manifold to improve intake flow
Jimbo, I was with you on the CVT clutches up until this episode. I genuinely think you are right and that CVTs have made more sense up to this point...but we've now seen that this engine has enough power to start the car out in 3rd gear, with the CVT only creating a reduction equivalent to starting out in first...and now you have an engine that is trending toward it's power band being slightly higher in its rev range...I think you may have just crossed the line where you might genuinely get better fuel efficiency and acceleration both from switching to a centrifugal clutch over a CVT. Just a thought, I have definietly not been a CVT critic from the beginning, I love CVTs...but this is just what my intuition is telling me on the numbers you're putting out. Just a thought, thanks for the awesome content, as always. You're an inspiration :)
Great stuff. You should remove the intake spacer rejet as needed and try again.
many thanks for showing the fuel consumption numbers. i kinda want to use one of these engines for an on road project when i will have money to waste so it's really nice to be able to see what kind of mpg i could get.
I don’t know if you have any firearms but find a buddy that does and have him save you some different sized empty shell casings. They work great for punches for all the little holes when you’re making gaskets 👍 love the Sunday videos, it’s my version of going to church 😂
LOL, the only empty shells I have are currently not empty...yet. I will start collecting brass in the future. thanks for the tip!
Great episode and interesting results.
Also if I may, I believe that the AFR's correlation to your fuel mileage is not merely coincidental.
I'm so ready for the turbo install!
A pro charger would be an interesting addition or one of those square superchargers.
my friends and I built a racecar and we 3d printed the runners that went from the throttle to the air filter, still works, didnt melt :)
I haven't been so hooked on a video series since project Binky. P.S.: you need to make more brackets😅
The spacer made me remember the old VW air cooled world where they had 2 barrel carb manifolds with a runner for each side and manifolds with a plenum before it split to each side.
A mod worth considering is taking of the cylinders and pistons, match the weight of the conrods, pistons.
Maybe even trying to shave the maximum weight of the pistons, like the casting remains under the underside and maybe making them accelerate faster.
Drilling the conrods with a 3 - 4 mm drills to make them light yet remain durable.
Lol, 1 billion.
12:01 seams like a drop in power and than it start picking up again, like it has to think what to do.
More good stuff from Robot Cantina, thanks for the video. 👍 I hope you make your goal of one billion sircribers. 👍
Jimbo nice job
1. you can try an crosflow spacer before the ¿manifold ? the thing you screw the carb. I see 3 options one or other or both. I think you gain tork in the higth revs with the crosflow.
2. Need more fuel yes.
love your work
Very cool, Jim can't wait for you to bring on all the performance modes for the Predator 670.
I would like to see flatter fasteners on the throttle plate. Those existing screws are certainly bad for air flow.
That should bring the mpg up by 0.00001% :)
Always design and optimize your air intake tract to take advantage of pulse wave reflection. Its easy to find information, and affects intake runner diameter and length, AND a plenum chamber relative to the desired rpm range. A well designed intake manifold tract can get an Naturally Apsirated engine up to near 100% volumetric efficiency, its like free super charging.
The CVT sounds like it was bogging the engine down during the 0-55, maybe it could do with adjusting the weights or springs or whatever it uses to keep the RPMs constant, as most CVTs I've heard tend to keep the RPMs about the same up until the pulleys are fully closed or embiggened and then the revs go up cos it's in top gear...
Every time, I expect "BIG BLOCK!" to be said in the intro 😂
It seems like your CVT needs tuned, like with lighter weights so it can stay in the power band on launch. Not sure how easy that is for you to do on that thing but that’s my observation
FYI when you use a cylinder in Tinkercad, turn up the Sides slider all the way. That will actually make it round instead of a dodecagon.
12:22 listening to the rpms and i think playn with the weights in the clucth might get you more performance
I would atleast yeild some kind of results
1 billion subscribers... LOL! I absolutely love this channel!
I'm thinking the cross flow is more helpful at high rpms. The vmax motorcycles have a valve they call v boost that opens between two cylinders at 6000 rpm and when it opens it feels like the engine got sprayed with nitrous.
As always you knock it out of the park. Very interesting, fun and entertaining video. Will be fun to watch the next modification for sure. Have a super week, God bless.
I think that combining the intake manifolds are bad thing, because as carsandcameras did they run into esue that the mixture was not properly distributed.🫤(one cylinder ran super lean)😐
But in your case , you did not change much, so I assume that the mixture will flow almost same plus the spacer will synchronize the pressures so in your case it could help.👍
Love your videos ❤️
Thank you for putting metric on the open captions! makes it easier to comprehend.
Have you considered using a mote powerful power plant? The size of this car would be a perfect fit for a 4 cyclinder out of a wrecked Kia Rio
We tend to focus on unlikely engine swaps. The lawn mower or industrial engines that we use are not the best choices... and that's what makes it fun. The Renault can be driven at full throttle and most of the time we wont be breaking the speed limit.
Owend 3 , absolutely loved them. Rack and pinion steering with Macpherson struts. Handles like a dream and can hand start with the lug wrench
I think it would've been better experimentally if you evened out the jets before installing the carburetor spacer because you said that they were jetted unevenly for the old muffler.
Although you'll probably still want to tune the sides separately due to the unequal exhaust header lengths.
Thanks again for more personal motivation. I started learning about additive manufacturing myself a little over a year ago and it really adds to the abilities in a lot of places. I'm only on a little Ender 3, but it's a cool journey.