Also Devon’s wrist is the most kicked back out of any other person I’ve seen, and has his top knuckle the most risen upward than anyone else I’ve seen. Nobody is actually lifting it like Devon is, not even coach Ray. That’s why he usually always kicks the others persons hand back and established his riser even on the losing side. Even levans wrist kicked back a little. Levan just has way to much power and side pressure
@@AD3k1i agree, but when levan in first round started to go sideways his wrist gets back, thats why he transition to a press becuse he lost his hand If he goes sidways.
@@AD3k1 that’s why I said a little😂 just a tiny bit in that first round, then Levan gave his wrist and transitioned to a press. Devon did take his wrist the first round. But levan adjusted super quickly, Devon cracked the wrist first round because levan screwed up in the setup, and also I think he just underestimated Devon and wasn’t going 💯
@@hungandfaded815 we also need to give Credit for devons strenght in that round and not only make excuses about levan give away and dont give 100% and stuff like that. In my opinion devon take out all his power in pronation and hand in that first round, he give 100% power in those areas in 7-9 sec anf If you do that it takes out alot of your power in later rounds.
I watched a video of Krasmir explaining this exact thing, Coach Ray. It's amazing how proper form can humble you. The amount of vectors in training arm wrestling is a bit overwhelming for me. I want to train every single angle.
Your videos help me so much and inspire me to train arm wrestling. Now, i have been arm wrestling for over a year now and ever since your videos have helped me to understand this amazing sport better. Thank you!
I started doing rising, cupping, pronation, and backpressure a year ago, with emphasis on pronation. I started at 40lbs, focusing on good form. Havent done 1RM in awhile, but my working weight for pronation at this point is around 82 lbs.
@whynot8818 its good for hand control. Theres no club where I live, but when my buddies start messing around on whatever flat surface is nearby, they cant touch me.
@@buckenfuzz that's exactly my situation. I only do weights. But since I don't get tabletime I don't get feedback on whether lifting helps or not. If it is good for hand control then it does it's duty, but I think the lifting done without thick handles such as pronation lifts doesn't translate to table. Did your friends are beating you before you start to lift? If yes, then we can say lifting helped you
@whynot8818 good point. Only one friend I can confirm a before and after. But, what I can say for sure is that in general, they are all larger frame than me. But, it may just be that I sort of know a lottle bit more about how to pull. High knuckle, cupped wrist, etc...
Yup, I've seen a lot of people do it in a wrong way. Once I get my strap for my loading pin, I'm going to try my best to focus on the form doing the pronation lift.
this is my personal opinion: anyone who speaks badly or modifies this type of stimulus hasn't understood it because they haven't done it. doing it for 2 weeks and doing it badly is useless. this training is a lifestyle, when you do it well after a while you understand exactly where it takes you and why it takes you there, everything else becomes useless.
Not even you get it right 😅 Its an Opening Move, what he is glimg for. It's the Move that he does on the ready go. If you Notice, when Devon Islifting it he Spins a bit, to simulate the Momentum of a Start and the angle were he Creates the stop in the Match. Evi Don't Believe, Askim. This lift stops the opponent attaking,and its for taking over the Wrist. It's a Stylepaste Understanding Lift. You can understand the Lift Only if you pull the Same Style that he Does.
It's really unlikely that your pronation will be what fails, unless you already had a crazy elbow flexor. It's almost always elbow flexion that limits this exercise for 90% of ppl. I personally think this exercise should be done with a towel or something on the back of the wrist to make it more even between pronation and back pressure
Yeah if I'm hitting this lift and the weight isn't moving off the floor, it's because the small pronator teres and pronator quadradus can't stay locked on, not because the huge brachioradialis, brachialis, and biceps can't stay locked haha.
it really is subjective, I would say for 70-80% of people their back pressure fails first. For me, my back pressure is weaker too, but thats not general public.
@@jameswebb3410 yea but the lever arm acting on your elbow vs on your wrist is a huge difference there's way more force trying to Open your elbow than trying to turn over your wrist
I was inspired by the devon lift and i made a different lift which still affect a lot the quadratus pronator, i don't even care about using the biceps and brachioradialis to lift the weight like in the devon's lift you still have to do, i hold the forearm with the other arm and the only thing i have to do it's holding the weight using literally only the pronator in a static way trying to hold the weight as much time as i can and it actually works (i improved a lot with the pronator in this way) but it's dangerous for the arm that have to hold the forearm and i stopped doing it only for this reason, now i only use the cables (which is still good and works all the arms and not only the pronators)
I sometimes support the forearm for cable lift pronation, since I can use MORE weight on it, but I don't just feel it in my pronators, I feel it in my bones haha. I don't feel it's more dangerous at all, but it's worth noting that you'll never replicate this feeling on table. It's always worth strengthening elbow flexion with pronation, because if you lose elbow angle you can still pronate, but if you lose pronation it's harder to keep elbow angle.
@RDS_Armwrestling no, no, I wasn't doing it with the cables, it's not that easy to explain it here, i posted a video on that lift like months ago on my ig, however i never felt something on the bones and it's actually way more about the smallest pronator of the arm which is the most near to the hand and let you start to pronate your entire forearm, technically the devon lift it's more complete because it makes you work a lot with more muscles in a position applicable even on the table (for the arm itself) and it's not even dangerous to do it which makes his lift way better than what i made 😂😂😂 if i have to hold up my forearm with the other arm to only use the pronator, the other arm do not stay in a comfortable position and have to do what the bicep and brachioradialis of the main arm are not doing to isolate the pronator, consequences? Your tendons goes on fire and I'm serious when i say it, it's dangerous and for this reason I'll never do it again, you can even improve a lot with the pronator but you simply risk to injury the other arm while doing it
Good video Ray. Thank you. I have an exercise physiology background and seeing so many people duplicate a movement without thought or intention of the results drives me nuts. I do this with a karate belt with 90/90 degree bends. If I make sure the belt is open more on the back of hand. The vector just wants to rip my pronation open. If I close the belt I can do way way more. So it understanding lever length etc. that matters. If anyone wants to really work pronator. Make sure strap isn’t high on thumb.
Hey coach Ray at 4:20 you showed a different angle , bringing the shoulder closer to the hand but keep the forearm parallel to the floor, IMO that's how a beginner should do it as you are stronger with your hand closer to your shoulder, yes?
Most of beginners feel strong when they are close so yes, but it depends on the person Devon and michael will do it more open because of their style and Vitaly will be Closer bcause of his style
Noob question here: why working statically why not by example lift the thing and from the lifted position open and close the pronator for few repetitions ?
Just not a realistic thing in a match, you want max static from neutral to slightly pronated. Not from losing your pronation to back flat. That's ok for light weights for rehab, but its not realistic to regain your pronation in a match, because once you're turned palm up, its generally lost for the duration of the match.
Dynamic exercises give better stimulus for muscle growth, but require lighter weights and thus do not give as much tension as static lifts. The high mechanical tension will give a higher stimulus to the tendons. I recommend doing both to get the best of both worlds, but if you just do one there will still be crossover. If you followed Devon closely, he actually did both too (he used bands for the dynamic exercise) but just talked about the static lift like it was way more important.
I always warm up with dynamic pronation, and get less and less dynamic the heavier it gets, meaning by my top sets and back off sets, it's completely static.
@@RDS_Armwrestling Im sorry but thats not really smart. By moving dynamically, you train and warm up your muscle and more importantly nervous system to fire in a certain way, then you change it with higher weights = you are not warming up the best way possible for high effort static pronation lift. Furthermore, by going through the motion, you exhaust the muscle way more, compared to doing it statically, thus your intensity of your top sets (meant for strength gain) is lowered, and intensity is what you want for strength. Either way, unless you are a pro or close to your genetic limit, this wont make that much of a difference.
From what i've seen devon does many sub maximal single reps throughout the day, probably like 75-85% of his max. Greasing the groove basically, so he's not maxing out, just getting close to the limit many times without fatiguing himself too much. It works for him but may not be the best prescription for everyone out there.
I’ve never experienced the feeling of losing a pronation with this lift. It’s always either my elbow starts to give or my riser falls but never pronation. That only must tel you it’s not hitting pronation exclusively and naming this pronation lift sounds wrong.
I argued with this workout for 1 month, had to abandon it due to pain. little by little I conditioned myself simply by insisting, now I can do even 40 singles without any pain. the problem is that I had a stall, so I switched to another stimulus of 3 repetitions, now I have pain again, when they stop I'll go back to 1 repetition and see how it goes.
@@bismark911 Yeah its so strange. During my early days of doing this lift i had no issue at all. But now i have wrist pain when doing this lift.. i think i have reached that stall aswell.
Is there any beginner full arm wrestling workouts? I’d love to get into the sport but I don’t know where to start, can someone point me in the right direction please?
Just train elbow flexion and wrist flexion. Renaissance Periodization has some playlists called "Hypertrophy made simple" and some others that teach you how to train in general.
You aren't exactly correct on how Devon does it he does it for 1 rep max true but when training for a match he does that 1 rep max every 2-4 hours throughout the day thus equaling 8 reps per day on average he just spreads those 8 reps thru a whole day instead of doing 8 reps back to back like powerlifters do. He has said his reasoning for this is to keep blood flowing and growing the muscles all thru the day instead of just once per day
Hello! Voice of Armwrestling. I have a question. I heard Devon Larratt say that the arm angle should be 90 degrees and parallel to the ground, but it seems like he doesn't follow his own advice. If you look at 0:35 in the video, his arm seems to be different from what he said. Could you explain this in more detail?
All good except the dismissal of Devon's one lift. Before dismissing it you should consider why he's doing that. Maybe this does wonders protecting the muscle from injury in case you're lifting max weights. We often see Devon doing multiple lifts with much lower weights and he says it's good for blood flow (therapy) and conditioning. So, maybe his purpose is more legitimate than not lifting one-lifts.
Ray, i find whenever i try this lift, my pronator doesn't give first, but its my bicep. My arm opens up from the weight. Anyway of doing this lift without this issue, or do i need to just strengthen my bicep cause its the weakest link?
I don't actually think the kick back is super vital devon has said himself that he does it because that's how he armwrestles so he wants to be as specific as possible, but he doesn't consider it a necessity for the movement
Kicking back makes it much harder because the pronator muscles are stronger when the wrist is cupped (and that's true, confirmed in a study), so if you can lift a big boy weight with your wrist bent back, you KNOW your pronators are strong as hell in neutral or cupped position.
Thats why i always laugh when people and armwrestling channels like pradeep goes out and say " this guys lifts more then devon and blablabla " but when you look its not the same lift😂 devon does it corectly for him self and it translate 100% for him to the table. It dosent do that for many others, thats why somebody can lift more then him in those lifts, but then are still weaker pronation and riser on the table.
If you want a perfect demonstration look at Michael Todd. One rep max can keep increasing if you constantly use shittier form. Not having a standard. Thats what alot of people do. It like someone benching a max to their chest with a pause. Then adding more weight next week and not pausing. Then add more weight and not touch the chest. etc. Ego PR's.
@@norman48234 I'm not here to defend Todd, I don't care what Todd does. it was just to clarify that that load is astronomical in any case, even 10 kg less but done well would be stratospheric. if you understand how to use these kg you can pull everything with that arm.
buddy, when you put more weight technique changes within the lift. it's normal behaviours in any progressive overload training regime. just calm down, go lift yourself, up the weight and tell me what your body feels like doing. technique changes as weight goes up, it doesn't neccesarily involves ego lifting, and of course that exists as well.
@@ignaciocabrera219 if there was no standards to powerlifting the sport would be stupid. People lifting with shit form everywhere. Standards mean you're actually getting stronger, not manipulating your body to lift more weight. Its not normal in progressive overload, stop being retarded
what happens if i train with my hand higher and have my strap under my thumb like devons lift but hand it a little higher 5:40 he is right it is easier but can that angle still be useful for a shorter arm guy or a longer?
I do pronation lift with straight wrist and with my pulling style I lean down and do pronation with some back engagement for my dragging style. Whenever i fail my pronation fails not my angle. And I feel my pronation and back sour still
he does it differently, he doesn't do it wrong. He does it dumb way yes, but there is no right or wrong. if he calls it Devon lift, then yes, he is just an idiot
i belive he is doing the lift like that because of his kings move thing. It will always require you to have a more open arm and like Ray is saying in the video ''the angle at what you train the most, at that angle you will be more powerful'', but then again this is only my guess.
@youtubeconnollyfamily no no like in india the national level players they are not open minded and not ready to accept when someone tries to tell them these things
Singles are great.But if you dont build and expand trough reps, you wont increase much your overall power trough single rep.You need to W O R K T H A T.
what Coach Ray teaches in the video is wrong, devon lifting and as if it were a squat completely in reverse, immersing the body and raising the trunk and arm with ismometry in pronation
I don't think this lift really targets pronation that much. I haven't seen anyone's actual pronation fail on this and their hand turn palm up. There are better ways to target pronation and I highly doubt this is Devon's main way of training it like he pretends.
@@Armbender1085 Yeah you clearly know everything about me. Do you also know my name ,address, DOB, and favorite food?... What percentage of the time when people fail on this lift is it because their palm turns up? The answer is an extremely low percent. I have yet to see this happen on any training video or for it to happen on myself. Are you really going to argue otherwise? Also I said it doesn't target pronation "that much". I didn't say it doesn't activate any some pronation strength because it of course does.
@ that’s because most people are smart enough to stop the lift when they start to feel compromise in the wrist and before it allows your hand to turn palm up. It’s really a simple thing to grasp, and that’s why I said I doubt you’ve done it. I have seen people fail this lift after they get it off the floor and there hand begin to turn over. You would have to pick it up a decent bit off the floor and hold your arm up as it rips your hand over in order to be turned completely palm up.
@@Armbender1085I think there is some truth to what you are saying here but I will argue that if your hand does turn up it is because you are failing or letting up on the other pressures/strengths that you are using to lift the weight. Pronation is not the first thing that will usually fail.....I find that I can lift the same amounts if I wrap the loop around both sides of my hand between the index finger and thumb ( as in straight up pressure not engaging pronation) or just have the belt wrap around the back side of my hand at the same spot with pronation engaged. Like I said some pronation comes along for the ride but it is way down the chain of muscles/tendons used in the lift.
If I can't lift a weight from the floor, it is because my hand begins to supinate from neutral, not because my elbow opens. I guess many armwrestlers really do have stronger pronators than elbow flexors, which is incredible to consider since the pronators are way, way smaller than all the muscles that flex the elbow.
Arm wrestlers in general are by far the dumbest athletes in the world. They see a lift and they to monkey it without realizing what it trains and how angles change the lift completely. It's simple but so hard to do right is seems in this sport...
to a certain extent it is not vital to do it flawlessly, a certain playing range does not change the result much, but these adjustments must be contained.
@@bismark911 for me I had a very experienced armwrestler tell and show me to pull on the strap when armwrestling, not on the hand. Kinda how Devon says “don’t hold on”, same thing, but also to pull on the strap at the top where it goes over in between your thumb. It feels exactly like doing the pronation lift
Yeah and has a high chance of fcking your body up and give you major injuries, just like it happened with many armwrestlers, funnily enough even the most elite ones like Levan, Ermes, or Michael (and many more) :D So keep ego lifting to progress and risk injuries (that will set you back months, or even years) :D
it must be added that Devon does other lifts besides this one. does similar lifts in cupping, rising, press. all this serves to build a concrete base for the top roll outside puller. It's a workout like any other, does it work? yes, other workouts work too, you see which one to do.
Also Devon’s wrist is the most kicked back out of any other person I’ve seen, and has his top knuckle the most risen upward than anyone else I’ve seen. Nobody is actually lifting it like Devon is, not even coach Ray. That’s why he usually always kicks the others persons hand back and established his riser even on the losing side. Even levans wrist kicked back a little. Levan just has way to much power and side pressure
@ Nobody should like this training, but in my humble opinion you must first do it enough to criticize it. If you do this training for 10 days you will never understand. you have to be able to do it for at least 5/6 months....then once you have assimilated it, if you decide that it is not good then make your criticisms... but I highly doubt that anyone has gone through this process. I'm almost certain that those who criticize this training have done it for a few weeks, have repeatedly hurt themselves and come here to say that this training sucks 😂.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 89 | คู่เอก "ยอดไอคิว vs คิริลล์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Z3vYkHJ_5Ig/mqdefault.jpg)
Anyone training arm wrestling is really lucky to have u on TH-cam Ray always given solid pointers
Also Devon’s wrist is the most kicked back out of any other person I’ve seen, and has his top knuckle the most risen upward than anyone else I’ve seen. Nobody is actually lifting it like Devon is, not even coach Ray. That’s why he usually always kicks the others persons hand back and established his riser even on the losing side. Even levans wrist kicked back a little. Levan just has way to much power and side pressure
Devon himself said during a podcast that he wasn’t budging Levan’s wrist. He said levan intentionally kicked back his wrist
@@AD3k1i agree, but when levan in first round started to go sideways his wrist gets back, thats why he transition to a press becuse he lost his hand If he goes sidways.
@@AD3k1 that’s why I said a little😂 just a tiny bit in that first round, then Levan gave his wrist and transitioned to a press. Devon did take his wrist the first round. But levan adjusted super quickly, Devon cracked the wrist first round because levan screwed up in the setup, and also I think he just underestimated Devon and wasn’t going 💯
@@jocke8672 exactly, also levan screwed up in the setup and for sure didn’t go 100% he was for sure underestimating Devon’s wrist
@@hungandfaded815 we also need to give Credit for devons strenght in that round and not only make excuses about levan give away and dont give 100% and stuff like that. In my opinion devon take out all his power in pronation and hand in that first round, he give 100% power in those areas in 7-9 sec anf If you do that it takes out alot of your power in later rounds.
I watched a video of Krasmir explaining this exact thing, Coach Ray. It's amazing how proper form can humble you. The amount of vectors in training arm wrestling is a bit overwhelming for me. I want to train every single angle.
Your videos help me so much and inspire me to train arm wrestling. Now, i have been arm wrestling for over a year now and ever since your videos have helped me to understand this amazing sport better. Thank you!
I Think Everyone Needs This Video Right Now😅
I started doing rising, cupping, pronation, and backpressure a year ago, with emphasis on pronation. I started at 40lbs, focusing on good form. Havent done 1RM in awhile, but my working weight for pronation at this point is around 82 lbs.
That's great. How much do you think it made you better armwrestler? Because it seems to me it doesn't simulate armwrestling to a good degree
@whynot8818 its good for hand control. Theres no club where I live, but when my buddies start messing around on whatever flat surface is nearby, they cant touch me.
@@buckenfuzz that's exactly my situation. I only do weights. But since I don't get tabletime I don't get feedback on whether lifting helps or not. If it is good for hand control then it does it's duty, but I think the lifting done without thick handles such as pronation lifts doesn't translate to table. Did your friends are beating you before you start to lift? If yes, then we can say lifting helped you
@whynot8818 good point. Only one friend I can confirm a before and after. But, what I can say for sure is that in general, they are all larger frame than me. But, it may just be that I sort of know a lottle bit more about how to pull. High knuckle, cupped wrist, etc...
Yup, I've seen a lot of people do it in a wrong way. Once I get my strap for my loading pin, I'm going to try my best to focus on the form doing the pronation lift.
this is my personal opinion: anyone who speaks badly or modifies this type of stimulus hasn't understood it because they haven't done it. doing it for 2 weeks and doing it badly is useless. this training is a lifestyle, when you do it well after a while you understand exactly where it takes you and why it takes you there, everything else becomes useless.
Not even you get it right 😅
Its an Opening Move, what he is glimg for. It's the Move that he does on the ready go. If you Notice, when Devon Islifting it he Spins a bit, to simulate the Momentum of a Start and the angle were he Creates the stop in the Match.
Evi Don't Believe, Askim.
This lift stops the opponent attaking,and its for taking over the Wrist. It's a Stylepaste Understanding Lift.
You can understand the Lift Only if you pull the Same Style that he Does.
Thanks Ray. Excellent explanation.
What were those sound at 0:00
It's really unlikely that your pronation will be what fails, unless you already had a crazy elbow flexor. It's almost always elbow flexion that limits this exercise for 90% of ppl. I personally think this exercise should be done with a towel or something on the back of the wrist to make it more even between pronation and back pressure
Of course it's the pronation that fails first. It's a much smaller and weaker muscle than the elbow flexors.
Ummm this is a weird comment. Ever time it’s my pronation that fails. Well, if the strap is positioned correctly. It just peels me open.
Yeah if I'm hitting this lift and the weight isn't moving off the floor, it's because the small pronator teres and pronator quadradus can't stay locked on, not because the huge brachioradialis, brachialis, and biceps can't stay locked haha.
it really is subjective, I would say for 70-80% of people their back pressure fails first. For me, my back pressure is weaker too, but thats not general public.
@@jameswebb3410 yea but the lever arm acting on your elbow vs on your wrist is a huge difference there's way more force trying to Open your elbow than trying to turn over your wrist
I was inspired by the devon lift and i made a different lift which still affect a lot the quadratus pronator, i don't even care about using the biceps and brachioradialis to lift the weight like in the devon's lift you still have to do, i hold the forearm with the other arm and the only thing i have to do it's holding the weight using literally only the pronator in a static way trying to hold the weight as much time as i can and it actually works (i improved a lot with the pronator in this way) but it's dangerous for the arm that have to hold the forearm and i stopped doing it only for this reason, now i only use the cables (which is still good and works all the arms and not only the pronators)
I sometimes support the forearm for cable lift pronation, since I can use MORE weight on it, but I don't just feel it in my pronators, I feel it in my bones haha. I don't feel it's more dangerous at all, but it's worth noting that you'll never replicate this feeling on table. It's always worth strengthening elbow flexion with pronation, because if you lose elbow angle you can still pronate, but if you lose pronation it's harder to keep elbow angle.
@RDS_Armwrestling no, no, I wasn't doing it with the cables, it's not that easy to explain it here, i posted a video on that lift like months ago on my ig, however i never felt something on the bones and it's actually way more about the smallest pronator of the arm which is the most near to the hand and let you start to pronate your entire forearm, technically the devon lift it's more complete because it makes you work a lot with more muscles in a position applicable even on the table (for the arm itself) and it's not even dangerous to do it which makes his lift way better than what i made 😂😂😂 if i have to hold up my forearm with the other arm to only use the pronator, the other arm do not stay in a comfortable position and have to do what the bicep and brachioradialis of the main arm are not doing to isolate the pronator, consequences? Your tendons goes on fire and I'm serious when i say it, it's dangerous and for this reason I'll never do it again, you can even improve a lot with the pronator but you simply risk to injury the other arm while doing it
Makes perfect sense. Good video
Good video Ray. Thank you. I have an exercise physiology background and seeing so many people duplicate a movement without thought or intention of the results drives me nuts.
I do this with a karate belt with 90/90 degree bends. If I make sure the belt is open more on the back of hand. The vector just wants to rip my pronation open. If I close the belt I can do way way more. So it understanding lever length etc. that matters. If anyone wants to really work pronator. Make sure strap isn’t high on thumb.
Hey coach Ray at 4:20 you showed a different angle , bringing the shoulder closer to the hand but keep the forearm parallel to the floor, IMO that's how a beginner should do it as you are stronger with your hand closer to your shoulder, yes?
Most of beginners feel strong when they are close so yes, but it depends on the person
Devon and michael will do it more open because of their style and Vitaly will be Closer bcause of his style
Noob question here: why working statically why not by example lift the thing and from the lifted position open and close the pronator for few repetitions ?
Just not a realistic thing in a match, you want max static from neutral to slightly pronated. Not from losing your pronation to back flat. That's ok for light weights for rehab, but its not realistic to regain your pronation in a match, because once you're turned palm up, its generally lost for the duration of the match.
Dynamic exercises give better stimulus for muscle growth, but require lighter weights and thus do not give as much tension as static lifts. The high mechanical tension will give a higher stimulus to the tendons. I recommend doing both to get the best of both worlds, but if you just do one there will still be crossover. If you followed Devon closely, he actually did both too (he used bands for the dynamic exercise) but just talked about the static lift like it was way more important.
I always warm up with dynamic pronation, and get less and less dynamic the heavier it gets, meaning by my top sets and back off sets, it's completely static.
@@RDS_Armwrestling Im sorry but thats not really smart. By moving dynamically, you train and warm up your muscle and more importantly nervous system to fire in a certain way, then you change it with higher weights = you are not warming up the best way possible for high effort static pronation lift. Furthermore, by going through the motion, you exhaust the muscle way more, compared to doing it statically, thus your intensity of your top sets (meant for strength gain) is lowered, and intensity is what you want for strength.
Either way, unless you are a pro or close to your genetic limit, this wont make that much of a difference.
From what i've seen devon does many sub maximal single reps throughout the day, probably like 75-85% of his max. Greasing the groove basically, so he's not maxing out, just getting close to the limit many times without fatiguing himself too much. It works for him but may not be the best prescription for everyone out there.
Love this! Thank you Coach Ray!! 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
I train my progressive AW lifts with 5/3/1 template and its works great. 5x5 75%, 5x3 82%, 8x1 90%. Then reevaluate %s based on how it feels
Always great info thanks so much coach!
Coach Question,
will you rotate/pronate while lifting or just static pronation lift ?
@@KurdandKurdistan STATIC! 100%you don't have to move anything, load your pronator and your biceps and gently incline.
I’ve never experienced the feeling of losing a pronation with this lift. It’s always either my elbow starts to give or my riser falls but never pronation. That only must tel you it’s not hitting pronation exclusively and naming this pronation lift sounds wrong.
A very logical and discerning video.💪
Best Coach for Sure. Quality Content my FRIEND
RVJ’s max pronation lift is still the most impressive I think
Great video Ray. I am beating a deadhorse here but phasing, phasing phasing. Everything has a place with proper programming.
The beginning of the video is brilliant!🐱
Idk why i never got that much stronger in this specific lift. And i feel pain at the bigger side of my wrist/my lower wrist
I argued with this workout for 1 month, had to abandon it due to pain. little by little I conditioned myself simply by insisting, now I can do even 40 singles without any pain. the problem is that I had a stall, so I switched to another stimulus of 3 repetitions, now I have pain again, when they stop I'll go back to 1 repetition and see how it goes.
What pain bro@@bismark911
@@bismark911 Yeah its so strange. During my early days of doing this lift i had no issue at all. But now i have wrist pain when doing this lift.. i think i have reached that stall aswell.
@@ArmoredG what pain
Damn this guy should coach devon for a rematch vs levan
Coach Ray spitting facts
Fantastico !🤩 chiamerò un geometra quando mi alleno 😅
Is there any beginner full arm wrestling workouts? I’d love to get into the sport but I don’t know where to start, can someone point me in the right direction please?
Just train elbow flexion and wrist flexion. Renaissance Periodization has some playlists called "Hypertrophy made simple" and some others that teach you how to train in general.
you're the coach, coach
Great solid advice thank you 🙏
You aren't exactly correct on how Devon does it he does it for 1 rep max true but when training for a match he does that 1 rep max every 2-4 hours throughout the day thus equaling 8 reps per day on average he just spreads those 8 reps thru a whole day instead of doing 8 reps back to back like powerlifters do. He has said his reasoning for this is to keep blood flowing and growing the muscles all thru the day instead of just once per day
Hello! Voice of Armwrestling. I have a question.
I heard Devon Larratt say that the arm angle should be 90 degrees and parallel to the ground, but it seems like he doesn't follow his own advice. If you look at 0:35 in the video, his arm seems to be different from what he said. Could you explain this in more detail?
A Little bit of ego lift. He wants to improve Faster than what Is body can. So his tecnique crumbles in order to lift higher weights.
a slightly more closed angle can be a little more offensive. but don't break your head looking for the pull of life.
All good except the dismissal of Devon's one lift. Before dismissing it you should consider why he's doing that. Maybe this does wonders protecting the muscle from injury in case you're lifting max weights. We often see Devon doing multiple lifts with much lower weights and he says it's good for blood flow (therapy) and conditioning. So, maybe his purpose is more legitimate than not lifting one-lifts.
late, but good! hey Ray, mankind needs this on time, hesitation kills man!
Ray, i find whenever i try this lift, my pronator doesn't give first, but its my bicep. My arm opens up from the weight. Anyway of doing this lift without this issue, or do i need to just strengthen my bicep cause its the weakest link?
0:08 Wall of Shame
SHAME 🔔…. SHAME 🔔…. SHAME 🔔
I don't actually think the kick back is super vital devon has said himself that he does it because that's how he armwrestles so he wants to be as specific as possible, but he doesn't consider it a necessity for the movement
Kicking back makes it much harder because the pronator muscles are stronger when the wrist is cupped (and that's true, confirmed in a study), so if you can lift a big boy weight with your wrist bent back, you KNOW your pronators are strong as hell in neutral or cupped position.
Thats why i always laugh when people and armwrestling channels like pradeep goes out and say " this guys lifts more then devon and blablabla " but when you look its not the same lift😂 devon does it corectly for him self and it translate 100% for him to the table. It dosent do that for many others, thats why somebody can lift more then him in those lifts, but then are still weaker pronation and riser on the table.
TH-cam algorithm boosting comment 💪 ... nice breakdown. ya, depends on your style, and can't wait to see results from Ray after a month 😎
If you want a perfect demonstration look at Michael Todd. One rep max can keep increasing if you constantly use shittier form. Not having a standard. Thats what alot of people do. It like someone benching a max to their chest with a pause. Then adding more weight next week and not pausing. Then add more weight and not touch the chest. etc. Ego PR's.
yes but trust me, what tod does, no matter how bad, is extremely remarkable 😂.
@@norman48234 I'm not here to defend Todd, I don't care what Todd does. it was just to clarify that that load is astronomical in any case, even 10 kg less but done well would be stratospheric. if you understand how to use these kg you can pull everything with that arm.
buddy, when you put more weight technique changes within the lift. it's normal behaviours in any progressive overload training regime. just calm down, go lift yourself, up the weight and tell me what your body feels like doing. technique changes as weight goes up, it doesn't neccesarily involves ego lifting, and of course that exists as well.
@ this!!!!!!
@@ignaciocabrera219 if there was no standards to powerlifting the sport would be stupid. People lifting with shit form everywhere. Standards mean you're actually getting stronger, not manipulating your body to lift more weight. Its not normal in progressive overload, stop being retarded
what happens if i train with my hand higher and have my strap under my thumb like devons lift but hand it a little higher 5:40 he is right it is easier but can that angle still be useful for a shorter arm guy or a longer?
Thanks for the good vid
@Michael Todd , i bet Michael is avoiding this video right now
I do pronation lift with straight wrist and with my pulling style I lean down and do pronation with some back engagement for my dragging style. Whenever i fail my pronation fails not my angle. And I feel my pronation and back sour still
Like you said go tell failer back off less lbs then go one more time maybe more if you feel healthy
Michael Todd does it wrong. Ive been told him about it and he just blocked me😂 what a boy
he does it differently, he doesn't do it wrong. He does it dumb way yes, but there is no right or wrong. if he calls it Devon lift, then yes, he is just an idiot
blocked me too
That's because you have zero place to tell a world level guy how to train for themselves
He doesnt do it wrong even Devon said he does it proper and the way its supposed to be done.
i belive he is doing the lift like that because of his kings move thing. It will always require you to have a more open arm and like Ray is saying in the video ''the angle at what you train the most, at that angle you will be more powerful'', but then again this is only my guess.
I challenge Ray to supermatch
Some people are just as incompetent in their practice as they are on the table
Thats what i try to say to people, but they are pros so they don't listen just shut me up and they also keep their ego in between
Or there are people who never arm wrestled in their life and say they are pros because that’s what TH-cam is full of😂
@youtubeconnollyfamily no no like in india the national level players they are not open minded and not ready to accept when someone tries to tell them these things
@@HRJ_MEDIA Which Indian player did you talk to about this ?
@@HRJ_MEDIA before speaking you need to do this training....
@bismark911 I do mister
Kingray u r a smart dude hav u ever thought of doing something other than armwrestling
Coach ray can i do this sitted?
Yes. Find your way
Yes. Ermes does pronation exercises sitting.
Thanks, between how many sets when the weight is Heavy and how many sets when the weight is light? Ty btw
@@friknobxanklebreaker7019 i don’t get
Sanjay Deswal ki leli coach ne😂
Kaha pe time stamp?
Singles are great.But if you dont build and expand trough reps, you wont increase much your overall power trough single rep.You need to W O R K T H A T.
what Coach Ray teaches in the video is wrong, devon lifting and as if it were a squat completely in reverse, immersing the body and raising the trunk and arm with ismometry in pronation
No I'm not
Michael Todd does it completely wrong
Yeah his elbow ends up on top of his leg lol, meaning he can lift more weight, I even pointed this out on one of his videos
I don't think this lift really targets pronation that much. I haven't seen anyone's actual pronation fail on this and their hand turn palm up. There are better ways to target pronation and I highly doubt this is Devon's main way of training it like he pretends.
@@Neilpickpocket you clearly just don’t do it right (I doubt you’ve ever done it at all tbh) and it absolutely will turn you palm up if you fail.
@@Armbender1085 Yeah you clearly know everything about me. Do you also know my name ,address, DOB, and favorite food?... What percentage of the time when people fail on this lift is it because their palm turns up? The answer is an extremely low percent. I have yet to see this happen on any training video or for it to happen on myself. Are you really going to argue otherwise? Also I said it doesn't target pronation "that much". I didn't say it doesn't activate any some pronation strength because it of course does.
@ that’s because most people are smart enough to stop the lift when they start to feel compromise in the wrist and before it allows your hand to turn palm up. It’s really a simple thing to grasp, and that’s why I said I doubt you’ve done it. I have seen people fail this lift after they get it off the floor and there hand begin to turn over. You would have to pick it up a decent bit off the floor and hold your arm up as it rips your hand over in order to be turned completely palm up.
@@Armbender1085I think there is some truth to what you are saying here but I will argue that if your hand does turn up it is because you are failing or letting up on the other pressures/strengths that you are using to lift the weight. Pronation is not the first thing that will usually fail.....I find that I can lift the same amounts if I wrap the loop around both sides of my hand between the index finger and thumb ( as in straight up pressure not engaging pronation) or just have the belt wrap around the back side of my hand at the same spot with pronation engaged. Like I said some pronation comes along for the ride but it is way down the chain of muscles/tendons used in the lift.
If I can't lift a weight from the floor, it is because my hand begins to supinate from neutral, not because my elbow opens. I guess many armwrestlers really do have stronger pronators than elbow flexors, which is incredible to consider since the pronators are way, way smaller than all the muscles that flex the elbow.
Wow
Dear in this movement the rise is important
Copy coach ray
Arm wrestlers in general are by far the dumbest athletes in the world. They see a lift and they to monkey it without realizing what it trains and how angles change the lift completely. It's simple but so hard to do right is seems in this sport...
to a certain extent it is not vital to do it flawlessly, a certain playing range does not change the result much, but these adjustments must be contained.
How about you go and learn how to formulate simple sentences? then we'll talk about "stupid".
Glad you put "in general" on there, some armwrestlers are very intelligent.
Hot take: Devon’s lift is largely useless
It depend
If you don’t know how to apply it on a table then absolutely. Once you learn how to pull in a strap though, you’ll find a major difference
@@Armbender1085 in my case it was the training itself that told me how to do it at the table.
@@bismark911 for me I had a very experienced armwrestler tell and show me to pull on the strap when armwrestling, not on the hand. Kinda how Devon says “don’t hold on”, same thing, but also to pull on the strap at the top where it goes over in between your thumb. It feels exactly like doing the pronation lift
@ you damn got it bro!!! 👍🏻
You are doing it wrong.
Elaborate pls
the whole lift is useless
You are just an youtuber not armwrestler , ego lifting is gonna make you stronger
Yeah and has a high chance of fcking your body up and give you major injuries, just like it happened with many armwrestlers, funnily enough even the most elite ones like Levan, Ermes, or Michael (and many more) :D So keep ego lifting to progress and risk injuries (that will set you back months, or even years) :D
it must be added that Devon does other lifts besides this one. does similar lifts in cupping, rising, press. all this serves to build a concrete base for the top roll outside puller. It's a workout like any other, does it work? yes, other workouts work too, you see which one to do.
Also Devon’s wrist is the most kicked back out of any other person I’ve seen, and has his top knuckle the most risen upward than anyone else I’ve seen. Nobody is actually lifting it like Devon is, not even coach Ray. That’s why he usually always kicks the others persons hand back and established his riser even on the losing side. Even levans wrist kicked back a little. Levan just has way to much power and side pressure
@ this training gets you there
@ Nobody should like this training, but in my humble opinion you must first do it enough to criticize it. If you do this training for 10 days you will never understand. you have to be able to do it for at least 5/6 months....then once you have assimilated it, if you decide that it is not good then make your criticisms... but I highly doubt that anyone has gone through this process. I'm almost certain that those who criticize this training have done it for a few weeks, have repeatedly hurt themselves and come here to say that this training sucks 😂.