Is The Sumo Deadlift Cheating? (Response To CBum)

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 เม.ย. 2022
  • Is it?
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    -------------------------------
    In this video I'm covering the most common arguments for why the sumo deadlift is cheating and seeing if they hold up against the scientific evidence. People will often point to range of motion as the main reason for why conventional is superior. We will also look at what the science says about the biomechanical and muscle activation differences between conventional and sumo and look at some powerlifting examples from IPF Worlds.
    -------------------------------
    Sources:
    Sources:
    IPF Rulebook:
    www.powerlifting.sport/rules/...
    Powerlifting Data:
    / thestrengthathlete
    ROM:
    www.massmember.com/products/m...
    Biomechanics:
    pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10912...
    EMG Research:
    pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11932...
    Filmed by Jeff Nippard, Big 3 Media & Omar Isuf
    Edited by Jeff Nippard using Final Cut Pro
    -------------------------------
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    -------------------------------
    About me: I'm a Canadian natural pro bodybuilder and internationally-qualified powerlifter with a BSc in biochemistry/chemistry and a passion for science. I've been training for 12 years drug-free. I'm 5'5 and fluctuate between 160 lbs (lean) and 180 lbs (bulked).
    -------------------------------
    Disclaimers: Jeff Nippard is not a doctor or a medical professional. Always consult a physician before starting any exercise program. Use of this information is strictly at your own risk. Jeff Nippard will not assume any liability for direct or indirect losses or damages that may result from the use of information contained in this video including but not limited to economic loss, injury, illness or death.
    For Chris Bumstead's Lawyer: Yes, Cbum is still in my basement. I'm sure we can work this out. Call me.
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ความคิดเห็น • 6K

  • @ChrisBumstead
    @ChrisBumstead 2 ปีที่แล้ว +18465

    2:42 "Why would the majority of lifters choose not to use it?"
    Well because it's cheating... duh

  • @BackGuy
    @BackGuy 2 ปีที่แล้ว +21942

    Never before have I ever seen or heard something as menacing as Jeff whistling the Harry Potter theme

    • @dr.snipes9410
      @dr.snipes9410 2 ปีที่แล้ว +343

      Creepy shit

    • @RiseOfPhoenyx
      @RiseOfPhoenyx 2 ปีที่แล้ว +109

      Beautiful.

    • @ermmmmm9207
      @ermmmmm9207 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      sup sexy man 😘

    • @tiwuinza
      @tiwuinza 2 ปีที่แล้ว +195

      Excuse me , what did you say? I don't speak smol back

    • @TheRandomR00ster
      @TheRandomR00ster 2 ปีที่แล้ว +83

      Back Guy? More like Guy, cause no back ❤

  • @chibiraptor
    @chibiraptor ปีที่แล้ว +767

    The random tall guy should start a TH-cam channel imo

    • @skiesthatroar5402
      @skiesthatroar5402 ปีที่แล้ว

      naw he doesnt even look like he lifts when he has a shirt on, he probably has the worst genetics of any body builder

    • @dragan176
      @dragan176 ปีที่แล้ว +18

      Nah, it would never be good

    • @ivanbobanovic
      @ivanbobanovic ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@dragan176 bro

    • @tjxwheel7812
      @tjxwheel7812 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@ivanbobanovic he’s joking ofc

    • @Arkasic
      @Arkasic ปีที่แล้ว

      @@ivanbobanovic bro

  • @mdmjeremiah
    @mdmjeremiah ปีที่แล้ว +1472

    "Some random tall guy." Your delivery on this is comedy gold.

    • @buffkangaroodog
      @buffkangaroodog ปีที่แล้ว +90

      I want Will to become the Stan lee of fitness videos now

    • @rutvijsonawane8597
      @rutvijsonawane8597 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      ... and proceeds to give him the money...!! 😂😂😂😂

    • @brycebarker1582
      @brycebarker1582 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      Lol, love the Will cameo

  • @austenlawson5993
    @austenlawson5993 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3224

    Jeff no longer makes fitness “videos”. He has now transcended to fitness cinema. Proud of you, Jeff.

    • @naturallywilde
      @naturallywilde 2 ปีที่แล้ว +20

      I was thinking….”Jeff Nippard Studio” or “Nippard Film” would be appropriate names for the new endeavor.

    • @AlexAnteroLammikko
      @AlexAnteroLammikko ปีที่แล้ว +9

      @@naturallywilde Nipp films

    • @roywempor8395
      @roywempor8395 ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@@AlexAnteroLammikko nipplestudio

  • @omgurheadsgone
    @omgurheadsgone 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1762

    Lmao at the Will Tenny random tall guy cameo at the gym.

    • @leokal457
      @leokal457 2 ปีที่แล้ว +104

      That random guy has some good camera presence. He should start a youtube channel

    • @duncanmill8977
      @duncanmill8977 2 ปีที่แล้ว +33

      @@leokal457 yeah looks like he'd be great doing a diet based one

    • @ChamathEdi
      @ChamathEdi 2 ปีที่แล้ว +29

      Maybe he will even get sponsored to give 10% off supplement

    • @hizzle8393
      @hizzle8393 2 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      @@ChamathEdi i think he could potentially hit 1 million subscribers at some point in the future too

    • @df-tp5kb
      @df-tp5kb 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      @@ChamathEdi tenny10 for 10% 0ff?

  • @roty9509
    @roty9509 ปีที่แล้ว +155

    I’m 6’4” with long femurs. Traditional deadlifts suck for me, so I primarily do sumo. I also have a weaker lower back (something I’m working on), so the sumo deadlift helps me strengthen my legs more before my back fatigues. Just do what works best for your body, and stay in your lane.

    • @RatanSur
      @RatanSur ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I think I’m in the same situation! How’s your hamstring flexibility? I think that is also a reason why sumo is more comfortable for me even though I’m 6’3”. Hard to not round my lower back with conventional

    • @roty9509
      @roty9509 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@RatanSur my hamstrings are way more flexible than they used to be. When I first started lifting, my hamstrings were consistently tight and were usually the first muscles to fatigue when squatting and deadlifting. I worked on some mobility exercises with my personal trainer that have helped me strengthen my hamstrings so that they aren’t the first muscles to fatigue anymore.

    • @_.Dave._
      @_.Dave._ ปีที่แล้ว

      Sumo deadlifts won't help you strengthen your back. That's like the guys that lock there arms at right angles while doing curls with enormous delts saying their hitting their biceps,.. nope.

    • @roty9509
      @roty9509 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@_.Dave._ never said sumo deadlifts help with your back. Just stated I’m also working on strengthening my back.

    • @skjetnis
      @skjetnis 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      6’5" with long ass legs. I feel it more in the legs when I do sumo, but I prefer conventional due to more strengthening of my back

  • @OmarIsuf
    @OmarIsuf 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5384

    Something tells me Chris is gonna look really catabolic this year at the Olympia…

    • @user-xs4rm1ti8f
      @user-xs4rm1ti8f 2 ปีที่แล้ว +27

      Not everyone deadlifts

    • @jdada7067
      @jdada7067 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Just like Omar's calves

    • @Max78912
      @Max78912 2 ปีที่แล้ว +157

      @@user-xs4rm1ti8f has nothing to do with what he was saying lol

    • @cjh_
      @cjh_ 2 ปีที่แล้ว +37

      @@Max78912 lmao facts whats this guy on about xD

    • @kingofdeath5600
      @kingofdeath5600 2 ปีที่แล้ว +25

      Omar you're still alive!! Get back to your youtube videos... they are missed.

  • @TheChosenOne2023
    @TheChosenOne2023 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2475

    That intro made me laugh WAY harder than it should have 😂
    We need more Evil Jeff

    • @wileecoyote5749
      @wileecoyote5749 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      actually we don't

    • @angelvtodo
      @angelvtodo 2 ปีที่แล้ว +67

      @@wileecoyote5749 yeah. we do.

    • @Wazeirmo
      @Wazeirmo 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@wileecoyote5749 shut up

    • @akrammakmouk6795
      @akrammakmouk6795 2 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      Psycho Jeff sounds better :p

    • @JackgarPrime
      @JackgarPrime 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Another character added to the roster of Jeffs!

  • @jillianhamilton5509
    @jillianhamilton5509 ปีที่แล้ว +245

    The whole "sumo is cheating" thing always seemed so bizarre to me. When I was competing as a 117 lb woman, I pulled conventional because it felt way easier for me than sumo. That hammered home for me that it is really about leverages and the relative proportions of your limbs. I just think the coolest part is seeing how heavy a thing you can pick up off the ground and set down again. If the lifter isn't risking injury, I think it's silly to get caught up in which stance/grip/etc they're using.

    • @JaegerMeister808
      @JaegerMeister808 ปีที่แล้ว +19

      People will justify any ridiculous opinion they have just to feel superior to someone else.

    • @user-Zachary123
      @user-Zachary123 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@user-op8lh8nr8ilol😂

    • @jakevoe
      @jakevoe 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @user-op8lh8nr8icringe

    • @not_hehe__
      @not_hehe__ 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @user-op8lh8nr8i go outside incel

    • @s.m.pravin9738
      @s.m.pravin9738 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      That's because sumo technique has a learning curve. Please learn sumo and i guarantee you'll pull a lot more

  • @Jayaldrich26
    @Jayaldrich26 ปีที่แล้ว +153

    This is interesting because I'm 6'1. I noticed when I pull sumo, I actually get better glute activation. Which makes sense when you compared the knee range of motion, and how sumo is similar to full squat, and conventional is better compared to half squat. This difference is why I alternate sumo and conventional every other week. Even though the EMG results say there's no difference. I def feel the difference in my post workout soreness.

    • @albert4324
      @albert4324 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Same with me

    • @ILikeExoticStuff
      @ILikeExoticStuff ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Same here. My conventional moves really fast due to my long arms and legs. No matter how hard I try to squat low, my hamstrings and glutes take over and yank the weight. Sumo is heavy as hell.

    • @himeshsinghshishodiya
      @himeshsinghshishodiya ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Ahh, you gave me a simple but great way to include both of them without increasing the length of my sessions. Thanks, man. Have a great day!

    • @BobbyxZx
      @BobbyxZx ปีที่แล้ว

      you have realized the truth, don't listen to the dipshts that say to skip it, they're only in the gym for the glamor muscles, they're not even athletes. sumo dl and squats are game changers for hip mobility and therefore give strength gains no other lifts can. you're not imagining the pump being different, it's the same for me. do your sumo squats ass to grass and then tell me there's no difference. narrow stance focuses on thighs, wide stance focuses on hips. these tards have no idea about hip strength and therefore have (highly) incomplete strength. but they're only here for the glamor muscles and want to spend 2 hour laying down on a bench... losers, every last one of them.

    • @Sumnerstrain
      @Sumnerstrain ปีที่แล้ว +2

      i just pull sumo cause my back hurts😂

  • @JeffNippard
    @JeffNippard  2 ปีที่แล้ว +2552

    Is it?

  • @tookiejones9765
    @tookiejones9765 2 ปีที่แล้ว +408

    That walk over to the computer, with the whistle... Nailed that! lol

    • @DipankarGhosh007
      @DipankarGhosh007 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Harry potter theme

    • @TitanFM
      @TitanFM 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Had been giggling through the intro, then sitting down at the computer and a sigh into his usual video intro chipper voice 'Is the sumo deadlift cheating' made me burst out laughing

    • @tookiejones9765
      @tookiejones9765 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@TitanFM That's the moment! I cracked up too. Comedy gold!

  • @r0bz0rly
    @r0bz0rly ปีที่แล้ว +218

    i'm a tall guy with decently long arms and legs, and i am dogshit at sumo and can only lift a fraction compared to conventional. definitely depends on the body type and preference.

    • @bird3179
      @bird3179 ปีที่แล้ว

      That’s because your technique is ass. You have more of a reason to pull sumo if you are taller not because you are short. Sumo is cheating if you call it a “Deadlift”

    • @MrYettiCrush
      @MrYettiCrush ปีที่แล้ว +8

      @@JSAF0 lmao

    • @longdongmc.johnson
      @longdongmc.johnson ปีที่แล้ว +6

      same here, i started out trying to sumo lift, and it puts too much strain on the inner part of my upper legs. you know, the part right next to my nutsack. dont know the name, this is not my first language. i switched to lifting conventional in fear of tearing the nutsack bordering tendons.

    • @coltongibbs1518
      @coltongibbs1518 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@longdongmc.johnson your groin haha

    • @Glebka13
      @Glebka13 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@longdongmc.johnson just add some stretching of these areas to ur routine. As 4 me I'm 2m tall and its much easier and safer for me doing sumo cuz in conventional I don't have enough space to do it with full comfort.
      Anyway, it just works 4 me. Good luck!

  • @jbosborne1770
    @jbosborne1770 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    I'm wondering if main reason the heavier (and generally taller) lifters in your data don't prefer sumo is because the available space for foot placement remains constant regardless of height, which would reduce the advantage for those taller lifters. Basically, the available width between the plates on the barbell is the same if you're 5' or 7' tall. That would also line up with the reduced difference in vertical movement between the two approaches for taller lifters compared to the shorter lifters. Anyway, that seemed like a reasonable explanation that I didn't noticed being called out in the video. So maybe Chris is right if you are comparing the movements for shorter lifters instead of an across the board advantage.

  • @MariMartinsPRO
    @MariMartinsPRO ปีที่แล้ว +17

    Amazing content Jeff, still trying to figure out how you brought Chris to the gym tho 😂 … I always felt frustrated for feeling that conventional deadlift’s was so much harder for me than sumo, I always felt a lot of pressure in the back and much harder to progress.. It all makes more sense now. Thank you for that

  • @Xavierpng
    @Xavierpng 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2095

    One of your best videos yet- the comedy, the content, the Will Tenny- a true masterpiece. Thank you Jeff for sharing this with us.

    • @furjin9805
      @furjin9805 2 ปีที่แล้ว +50

      Random tall dude 🤣

    • @tarantulamantis5189
      @tarantulamantis5189 2 ปีที่แล้ว +26

      I tought I was hallucinating when Will showed up😂

    • @Krahnin
      @Krahnin 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      I discovered Will recently, compared to Jeff. Was hilarious seeing him show up!

    • @TheAlexJimenez
      @TheAlexJimenez 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@tarantulamantis5189 right. I forgot whose video I was watching for a moment.

    • @minerobloxplayer2432
      @minerobloxplayer2432 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      ignore this comment hes just trying to get views

  • @chrisbermudez6677
    @chrisbermudez6677 2 ปีที่แล้ว +689

    In not even going to lie, your comparisons of a short grip bench and short grip lat pulldown made PERFECT sense when compared to conventional vs sumo. I really never thought of it in that way, damn good work as always Jeff!

    • @AthleticAlfa
      @AthleticAlfa 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes i like that point too

    • @ncdozer3103
      @ncdozer3103 2 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      @@TheArchm due to humans not being cranes lmao, our levers become less functional at certain angles

    • @monkeyxpwner
      @monkeyxpwner 2 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      @@TheArchm saying that a shorter ROM is automatically easier shows that they know nothing about lifting, so I don’t even take them seriously

    • @nottheone582
      @nottheone582 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      yes also thought that was a great analogy. also hitting the hard parts of the lift both ways

    • @ClassicTor
      @ClassicTor 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@TheArchm bcs its uncomfortsble asf if you do it wide it becomes harder bcs the motion doenstt work well for your body

  • @marshallmccord1352
    @marshallmccord1352 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Love the transition into the voiceover bro, super professional. Looked cool.

  • @247hustlerr
    @247hustlerr ปีที่แล้ว +53

    Blown away by another video of yours. Thanks for producing these extreme high quality informative videos with a dash of your humor too.

  • @AlphaRabbbit
    @AlphaRabbbit 2 ปีที่แล้ว +377

    An important factor that most people don't consider, that I'm glad you pointed out, is the variance in biomechanics from person to person. Sumo can be more of a "squat" for some people.

    • @nottheone582
      @nottheone582 2 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      I have long femurs so I def have to get deep into hips to set up for sumo. but I have such long arms that it also greatly shortens the length of pull for me by about 4" vs conventional. so it's a trade-off

    • @ChiliCheeseD0g
      @ChiliCheeseD0g 2 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      @@nottheone582 The visual I have of a person with abnormally long femurs and abnormally long arms makes me wonder if Dr. Frankenstein built you. Or you could just say that you're tall?

    • @Eth77930
      @Eth77930 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I do believe sumo is easier (allows you to pull more) - if we somehow included person's height into his starting point. If someone who is 6'6'' would pull from 12 inches and someone who is 5'6'' would pull from 10, we might see more balanced distribution between weight classes.
      The lower weight class pulls sumo, because they are typically shorter people, for whom it is easier to get low enough to proper sumo position. For me (6'1'') sumo feels easier to lift, but at the same time I struggle to get low enough with knees properly out (due to long legs, long torso and short arms) - my knees are too high from the ground, and get in the way of the barbell.

    • @Simon-talks
      @Simon-talks 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Berbell

    • @makimoko
      @makimoko 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I have relatively long femurs and short torso and conventional makes me feel I have to bend over myself just to grab the bar. With sumo, torso is much more vertical and am much stronger that way. A friend with opposite proportions is better with conventional.

  • @mrdereksutton
    @mrdereksutton 2 ปีที่แล้ว +709

    I think this is my favorite video you've ever done, the comedy was on point lol. Definitely do more videos with Will...I mean the random stranger

    • @manuelkismejia4253
      @manuelkismejia4253 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@Alex-Aviation huh?

    • @josephpaoo4889
      @josephpaoo4889 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Comedy was 😂😂😂🔥🔥 he needs to do more it’s a niche market

  • @themasterkey3
    @themasterkey3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    When I sumo people always say it feels better because its less RoM, but from my perspective the distance of travel or time of bar path doesn't feel very different at all. The main difference is my low back feels closer to the bar and my center of gravity compared to conventional, and in turn makes it feel a lot stronger and more secure on high loads. Something about conventional as a short lifter with my limb lengths that it puts my low back slightly out of a good and ideal feeling spot no matter how I adjust it.

  • @fast.food.ninjalarry954
    @fast.food.ninjalarry954 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    The way you and Will showed sumo in this video is actually respectable, when people say is cheating they mean when bar doesnt even go past the knees.

  • @tam1742
    @tam1742 2 ปีที่แล้ว +489

    Jeff and Will in the same video is something that I didn’t expect but I’m glad it happened.👌🏽👌🏽

    • @fittysit-tea5287
      @fittysit-tea5287 2 ปีที่แล้ว +148

      You mean random tall guy. Don't get confused.

    • @AMaz-zx9sj
      @AMaz-zx9sj 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Whats Will channel in youtube?

    • @Grimmjeaux
      @Grimmjeaux 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      @@AMaz-zx9sj Will Tennyson

  • @Viking_Raven
    @Viking_Raven 2 ปีที่แล้ว +161

    From now on I'll exclusively refer to Will as a "Random tall guy" everywhere.

  • @davidantunez4147
    @davidantunez4147 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    Says sumo is cheating but is fine with taking gear

    • @umami5444
      @umami5444 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      What does that have to do with taking gear😭

    • @MrHadane
      @MrHadane 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      So taking gear is not cheating?

    • @umami5444
      @umami5444 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@MrHadane how is it cheating when someone’s trying to compete at Olympia level😭😭

    • @MrHadane
      @MrHadane 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@umami5444 because it's cheating.

  • @Raul-pg1pf
    @Raul-pg1pf ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Sir "adjusting the weight" when pulling sumo it's literally the whole point of people calling it cheating

  • @joshuasharrock466
    @joshuasharrock466 2 ปีที่แล้ว +121

    He just paid some random tall dude at the gym that just happened to look like Will Tennyson to compare sumo to conventional..
    That was the first hard laugh of the day Jeff thank you

    • @jkfang
      @jkfang 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      This got me thinking, why are all the fitness TH-camrs I watch Canadian.

    • @terminate_06
      @terminate_06 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@jkfang they’re just more entertaining

  • @Protecterofnyc
    @Protecterofnyc 2 ปีที่แล้ว +178

    Let’s all take a moment to process Jeff has a “life sized” cut out of Cbum
    Que Dexter laboratory and Einstein scene

    • @tigerskone2945
      @tigerskone2945 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      What do you think he gets off too?

    • @strengthoveraesthetics239
      @strengthoveraesthetics239 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      wdym thats cbum himself

    • @-Azure.EXE-
      @-Azure.EXE- 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      What... You don't?

    • @Zamkis
      @Zamkis 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      The best part is spotting it randomly showing up in the background of some of the gym clips like 7:30

  • @user-or6qv7sk1l
    @user-or6qv7sk1l ปีที่แล้ว +39

    I have a hypothesis on this. With the conventional DL, the heavier you get, you get more support from the pressure between the thighs and the abdomen. This makes it easier to start the weight moving from the bottom of the lift. Just like doing leg press with really narrow stance, it makes it alot easier to stop the weight at the bottom. Any opinions on this?
    And about the cheating part, conventional and sumo are just different movements. I don't see how one gets called out as cheating.

    • @richtheunstable3359
      @richtheunstable3359 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Different movement you say. If it's a different movement then it shouldn't be used?

    • @schmui
      @schmui 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      "I just don't understand how people call dribbling the ball with their feet at a basketball game cheating. It's just different sports and rule sets 😐🤷"
      You're just giving us good examples for why there should be seperate events - conventional and sumo.

    • @jabigchad1749
      @jabigchad1749 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@schmui more like dribbling with your palm vs with fingers. But everyone has their own opinion

  • @Channel0.7
    @Channel0.7 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    You covered and emphasised more on “range of motion” which is still the key however you missed another key point, “stability” in the stance/position which combined with the range of motion contributes significantly to the “ease” of lifting more in Sumo than Conventional.
    Sumo’s stance/position is in a tripod fashion which offers significantly more stability overall in lifting than Conventional which significantly enhances overall lifting stability compared to the Conventional style.
    This combined stability, along with an emphasised range of motion, plays a pivotal role in enabling the ease of lifting heavier weights in the Sumo deadlift.

  • @mohammedbarakat6401
    @mohammedbarakat6401 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1269

    Jeff is the science geek of the fitness community

    • @dantehedge8414
      @dantehedge8414 2 ปีที่แล้ว +37

      He is the obi wan to Mpmd's darth vader.

    • @Killerkraft975
      @Killerkraft975 2 ปีที่แล้ว +37

      if you didn't know about his youtube you'd think this guy is an absolute gym bro but then you realise its the exact opposite

    • @HighTide_808
      @HighTide_808 2 ปีที่แล้ว +25

      He’s Han Swolo

    • @Withinreasonandlogic
      @Withinreasonandlogic 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@HighTide_808 yo, that was so damn good.

    • @ognjen1825
      @ognjen1825 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Literally!

  • @TheRealGuywithoutaMustache
    @TheRealGuywithoutaMustache 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2739

    Poor Cbum, saying sumo is cheating was the equivalent to hurting John Wick’s dog

    • @rabitof5248
      @rabitof5248 2 ปีที่แล้ว +62

      no range of motion no dog alive

    • @stevend481
      @stevend481 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      He killed his career on this comment

    • @arthurwheeler7400
      @arthurwheeler7400 2 ปีที่แล้ว +120

      @@stevend481 can’t really kill your career when you’re the 3 time champ and regarded as a god

    • @osteomalacia2233
      @osteomalacia2233 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      3 time olympia champion

    • @hemant1176
      @hemant1176 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@stevend481 as if

  • @trispyfrispy5778
    @trispyfrispy5778 ปีที่แล้ว +28

    I can't even do conventional deadlifts because I have really deep hip sockets... I was so shattered but after actually doing sumos, I fell in love with em! Mostly because of how good they feel, it was even therapeutic to all that hip and back pain I got from conventional deadlifts! Now I'm pain free! Weeeee!

  • @justsomeduuude4708
    @justsomeduuude4708 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    You’re so valuable to the fitness community man. I appreciate all you do

  • @dandy813
    @dandy813 2 ปีที่แล้ว +589

    More content like this, hilarious AND presenting the facts. You’re the best Jeff!

  • @lukemarlowe6930
    @lukemarlowe6930 2 ปีที่แล้ว +734

    I laughed so hard when he put the kiwi in Chris mouth 😂😂😂
    “Eat some carbs Chris. You look catabolic.” ☠️

    • @markbrouk7857
      @markbrouk7857 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Me too I was dying lol 😂

    • @joditio3024
      @joditio3024 ปีที่แล้ว

      ☠️☠️☠️

  • @_splitroyale_
    @_splitroyale_ ปีที่แล้ว +14

    For me, I’m between sumo and conventional. According to my orthopedic physician, it has to do a lot with the ball and socket joint, and the ability to build the core on your lower back. Height also plays a roll as well. So, I go a little bit pass my shoulder and that’s how I have and able to maintain proper deadlifts

    • @grandmastagrimm8773
      @grandmastagrimm8773 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      What do you mean a little passed your shoulders ? Grip or width on stance ?

    • @RohannvanRensburg
      @RohannvanRensburg 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Careful with what orthos claim. There is no demonstrable correlation between imaging, manual testing and exercise technique or limitations.

    • @HeyIntegrity
      @HeyIntegrity 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@RohannvanRensburgproof?

  • @marquistraylor1255
    @marquistraylor1255 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    Recently I’ve been doing conventional on back days and sumo as my compound on leg days to really focus in on my glutes and hammies. Can confirm their both freaking hard 😂

    • @YoungJohnHolmes
      @YoungJohnHolmes ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Do you get less glute/hamstring activity when you do conventional? I've never tried sumo, only RDLs to hit my hamstrings more. Conventional always blows up my glutes.

  • @RoeeNegbyDaHot
    @RoeeNegbyDaHot 2 ปีที่แล้ว +702

    After watching this video I've come to the educated, science-based conclusion that conventional is cheating. Thank you Jeff!

  • @sourobhdas1235
    @sourobhdas1235 2 ปีที่แล้ว +22

    Will Tennyson = random tall guy at the gym 😂😂
    The editing, the writing, the comedy, everything is so good. The fact that you do it all yourself is unbelievable. You are the gold standard in TH-cam fitness content. Period.

  • @patricklarsen1007
    @patricklarsen1007 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    One of the best Nippard videos yet! loving the acting and comedy, while learning :D

  • @alessiofaiella9622
    @alessiofaiella9622 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    This was a great video - love the data driven approach, cant believe I am just finding you now!

  • @MrChaydelarosa
    @MrChaydelarosa 2 ปีที่แล้ว +186

    I had some lower back issues in the past and after that using sumo positions feels just more safe for me and my lower back 🙃

    • @tsu1068
      @tsu1068 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      same brother. although it took me a few months to adjust my feet position in sumo to lessen hip pain. my back feels safer in sumo and lowerback soreness after deadlifts gladly dont
      exist anymore.

    • @danielshook8502
      @danielshook8502 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@tsu1068 try using a hexbar

    • @fallible4
      @fallible4 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@tsu1068 What did you do to lessen the hip pain? I am currently having the exact same problem.

    • @nottheone582
      @nottheone582 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      same. i lifted conventional until I blew up my L4/L5. now its sumo for me, I find it more upright, less stress on lower back

    • @nicolarossi8728
      @nicolarossi8728 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Probabilmente sbagli la tecnica nel conventional

  • @othonielmolina
    @othonielmolina 2 ปีที่แล้ว +177

    I’ve always looked at both of these exercises as different exercises just like narrow grip lat pull downs and wide grip lat pull downs. I just use whichever feels best for me regardless of muscle activation. Due to my leverages I cannot comfortably squat or deadlift with a narrow stance since my hips start internally rotating as my knees flex during the eccentric so I tend to use wider stances in both squats and deadlifts which just feels much better for me.

    • @DeDieuAntique
      @DeDieuAntique 2 ปีที่แล้ว +25

      Someone with an actual brain. You are awarded all of the points.

    • @othonielmolina
      @othonielmolina 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@DeDieuAntique hahahaha thank you

    • @elimsyldog4858
      @elimsyldog4858 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Sumo is cheating

    • @trevorhaeberle3982
      @trevorhaeberle3982 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      I think the same thing. It seems obvious. It’s a different exercise

    • @user-ue9fo2ud2p
      @user-ue9fo2ud2p 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Exactly, they are different exercises and it doesn't make sense to use them interchangeably when comparing strength

  • @Lobi10879
    @Lobi10879 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    As 5’4 male, sumo definitely feels more comfortable for me, but I mix in the 2 to workout my back with conventional and glutes with sumo.

  • @MAXFITNESS260
    @MAXFITNESS260 ปีที่แล้ว

    Really enjoyed the production on this, very fun

  • @dave82au
    @dave82au 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1602

    "Shorter range of motion doesn't equal easier, because lifters can offset any reduction in ROM with an increase in weight."
    True, but this is also why people consider it cheating!

    • @sigma7511
      @sigma7511 2 ปีที่แล้ว +240

      "I have a 15% decrease in ROM with a 15% increase in weight" literally right there is why ya know. Totally agree with you!

    • @emmang2010
      @emmang2010 2 ปีที่แล้ว +170

      Dude thank you. Like did no one notice that he literally says you then use more load to offset the decrease in ROM? This is exactly why people say it's cheating. It would appear, based on this video, that for every single person, sumo is not always going to be easier. But for those that can do both relatively equally, they will find they can lift more weight with sumo likely do to this range of motion decrease.

    • @zekicaneksi
      @zekicaneksi 2 ปีที่แล้ว +46

      ALSO, with sumo, you can abuse your limb lenghts MUCH MORE. some people lift the weight a few inches and its done for them with sumo.

    • @nishanalfred
      @nishanalfred 2 ปีที่แล้ว +48

      @@inmyhead00 I mean, arching and using a wide grip can be considered cheating one day. There should be limits to how wide you can go, as 1 inch ROM and calling it a bench is very different to the standard bench press that most people do.

    • @eli-eli1
      @eli-eli1 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      exactly

  • @elijahcraig3477
    @elijahcraig3477 ปีที่แล้ว +712

    As a 6'1" guy with a 6'5" wingspan, I feel that conventional suits my body type more. My arms hang too low when my arms are apart and it feels like I am skipping part of the lift. I'm torn on if sumo and conventional should be separate lifts, given their slight mechanical differences. It varies so much person to person.

    • @Siberius-
      @Siberius- ปีที่แล้ว +17

      The video seemed to make it pretty clear that there's really not much difference. Very much the same lift, just with different emphasis in not many ways.

    • @donnyinfinity
      @donnyinfinity ปีที่แล้ว +47

      @@Siberius- but in reality there's a hell lot of difference. In case of me i can lift more in sumo but I'm a conventional lifter. And my height is 6 feet. Nothing to do with height and weight. Clearly the range of motion is less in sumo but the sumo guys won't accept that fact 😂

    • @Siberius-
      @Siberius- ปีที่แล้ว +5

      ​@@donnyinfinity - The next day I was thinking about that comment I left and was gonna find it to edit it a bit, but screw that. So I'm glad you replied lol.
      I was going to add that while it is the same lift, and only has somewhat minor emphasis differences, that can still make each lift feel very different to do, and so powerlifting should ideally probably have lifters do both lifts and then combine the total number. They're different enough, that it's weird to have competitors do only one or the other.
      As far as your comment goes, that's you. Plenty of others can't lift more when they do sumo.
      The range of motion (knee flexion) for sumo is MORE than conventional. It's just that the bar doesn't travel as much, which is not what range of motion is.

    • @vicnad92
      @vicnad92 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      As a short torso & long legs 5"7 guy, sumo works so much better with my anatomy.

    • @duolingoowl8294
      @duolingoowl8294 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@vicnad92 same lol, sumo lets me deadlift without breaking my back

  • @Orang3_fatty24
    @Orang3_fatty24 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Loved seeing my favorite random tall guy will Tennyson on this video😂

  • @Vic-js2mh
    @Vic-js2mh ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I love how calls will Tennyson a random tall guy

  • @finallychangedthis
    @finallychangedthis 2 ปีที่แล้ว +429

    Quality video Jeff, loved the Will and Chris cameos and everything was explained well! People really put their entire identity into which stance we pick a bar up with, so it’s nice to apply some good science and biomechanics to the debate

    • @garrettsweaney9394
      @garrettsweaney9394 2 ปีที่แล้ว +17

      Lol. I thought the "Random guy at the gym" looked familiar.

    • @jaylebowski9745
      @jaylebowski9745 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@garrettsweaney9394 yea I would love to see a collab between them!

  • @vimanshu
    @vimanshu 2 ปีที่แล้ว +268

    Man! jeff just outdid himself. From whistling the harry potter theme to using will as a random tall guy and ending the video with cbum classic "what is up... TH-cam" and obviously proving his science backed claims. This was so much fun ✨🔥

    • @ancientcolors
      @ancientcolors 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Don’t forget cbum silently watching in some of the clips

    • @Roulette55
      @Roulette55 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      He can lift 15% heavier while doing sumos 🤔🤔🤔 interesting

  • @Siberius-
    @Siberius- ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Fantastic video.
    Also particularly very interesting.

  • @creyes4182
    @creyes4182 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    I don’t normally deadlift but I’ve been trying to get into it lately. I’m not doing anything super heavy but I struggle with my last set on regular stance, but doing it sumo it’s pretty easy. Although it’s easier I feel like it’s less chance of getting hurt, at least with lower weights.

  • @Pronoob1218
    @Pronoob1218 2 ปีที่แล้ว +288

    I actually first hit 405 on sumo after trying it out for a month, since deadlift (conv) was a lacking movement for me. Note that I was sub-88kgs. After a month of layoff and an introductory such, i hit 405 conventional at 92kgs.
    I suppose switching in-between and breaking the ceiling, be it mental or physical, is best.

    • @fireynight9296
      @fireynight9296 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      nice

    • @D4NKN4
      @D4NKN4 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      i agree. I slightly injured my back on conventional hitting 305. i did some recovery on sumo and hit 315 no problem. im considering on going back to conventional to see if i can improve on it again.

    • @zodeadlifts9295
      @zodeadlifts9295 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      For most people sumo is an accessory to conventional and vis versa. They both address weaknesses of the other, making a combination of the 2 in a training plan beneficial for most!!

    • @jananilcolonoscopu4034
      @jananilcolonoscopu4034 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Damn you and your mature even handedness

    • @bertrandronge9019
      @bertrandronge9019 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      You hit 405 kg ?! Damn !

  • @postalpancho
    @postalpancho ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I’m 5’7” 180lb and I like doing both sumo and conventional because how they hit differently. Sumo hits the gluts better and conventional hits the low back. I like the strength benefits of both. I don’t consider either of them cheating just like I do alternate versions of the same lift. I do wide grip and close grip lat pull because we all know they hit different.

    • @josbon9228
      @josbon9228 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Bleh people just like to get to competitive, in a perfect world people would think like you.😅

    • @dead-x1491
      @dead-x1491 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      same i do sumo on first leg day and conventional on back day or on the second leg day

  • @proto_64_x
    @proto_64_x ปีที่แล้ว +1

    It seems like we wont talk about the distance between the hip and the bar today, but that's what I consider the most important part. Legs are straighter, the bar is closer to the hip, and the torso is also straighter, what makes it faster to get into a locking position with the bar already lifted. In the end, it's an advantage, and the difference in range of motion is not in the bar movement, it is in fact in the angle your legs make with your torso measuring from the hip and taking into account also the knees. Let's say your legs and torso must reach 180º, yes? That would be standing straight, but the sumo stance starts with your torso/leg angle at almost 90º already, so you'll only have to move another 90º to get the 180º, and for your leg/calves, with sumo it is already over 100º, so you has to move a lot less. Now for conventional, your back have to travel a lot more. The hip/leg angle can even be lower than 45º, so you have to end up rotating your hip up to 135º, and your leg/calves never gets over 90º, in fact it extends from 45º to 90º, which leads to a range of movement of 90º to 135º. Also, another thing to take into account, is that the axis of main rotation, which would be your hip, is far closer to the line of movement of the bar, what makes it easier to lift, the same as grabbing a bar from one end, and adding a brick with tape to add wheight, the longer it is from the end you are holding, the more difficult it'll be to lift. So, is sumo cheating? Well, cheating or not, it's easier, but it will depend on your height. If you legs can't fit into the standard barbell length while holding a good sumo stance, it's pointless. My resolution? Instead of just one lift, make it two, one category for conventional, and another for sumo. Force lifters to train both and nobody will complain because it will be normalized to have both PRs.

  • @joelmarr6590
    @joelmarr6590 2 ปีที่แล้ว +215

    Over my lifting career i've gone from 133lbs to 195lbs and at no point was sumo comfortable to me and that's what it all came down to, what feels right.

    • @alexwenger9655
      @alexwenger9655 2 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      No it doesn't these lifts need to be standardized for the sake of competiton. You can't compare a sumo deadlifter to a conventional deadlifter in competition because they are different lifts. That shouldn't be a thing in a competitive sport.

    • @talonwoolsey3
      @talonwoolsey3 2 ปีที่แล้ว +18

      @@alexwenger9655 Do the same for the remaining two lifts and then your argument is valid and logical.
      But until then, conventional deadlifting is cheating and only snatch grip deadlifts are the true test of hip hinging strength lmao

    • @alexwenger9655
      @alexwenger9655 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@talonwoolsey3 sound good to me. We've got people folding themselves in half to bench press and people doing ultra wide squat stances to reduce rom. It's rediculous

    • @basicmeme1040
      @basicmeme1040 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@alexwenger9655 he straight up explained how similar they are

    • @basicmeme1040
      @basicmeme1040 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@alexwenger9655 short and and short arm people yeah it's bullshit
      Long Arm and long legs people it's respectable

  • @Brian-bk3fz
    @Brian-bk3fz 2 ปีที่แล้ว +359

    Both are different, and both have more emphasis on different muscles. I’ve been doing conventional deadlifts for years , recently I’ve switched to sumo to diversify my training. I’ve noticed with sumo , your adductors, abductors, glute medius glute minimus, quads and calves are wayyyyyy more involved

    • @whoissimona7257
      @whoissimona7257 2 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      Exactly, they are just different. That's why you'll see a lot of girls preferring sumo, to focus on glutes. Personally, I can lift more with conventional deadlifts, but still do sumo deadlifts more often to train glutes.

    • @chrisperez2369
      @chrisperez2369 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yep. Then do squats!. Conventional deadlifts are designed to hit the other areas

    • @batman-sr2px
      @batman-sr2px 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Which one puts more stress on rotstor cuff scapula muscles?

    • @Brian-bk3fz
      @Brian-bk3fz 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@batman-sr2px It feels like Sumos put more stress on the scapula. However I use double over hand grip you might be able to relieve some pressure off of the scapula with a hook grip

    • @mattbalfe2983
      @mattbalfe2983 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@chrisperez2369 Squats and conventional deadlifts don't activate glute meds and mins at all, of course you can isolation for both but I find involving them in a big compound movement is beneficial.

  • @evgeniyaseminenko8594
    @evgeniyaseminenko8594 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    I am a short and a relatively heavy woman (5'2(158cm) and around 80 kg), but through trial and error I figured sumo is much more comfortable for me. I had a theory that it has to do with length of my arms/leg length proportion. Also somehow my grip is stronger with sumo.
    Thank you for the video!

  • @TuckyTuck
    @TuckyTuck 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I’m 6’4 210. If I ever try to conventional
    I have to parallel to the ground to reach the bar. Even when I’m in sumo my back angle is the same as Jeff’s in conventional

  • @JJ-qw4ey
    @JJ-qw4ey 2 ปีที่แล้ว +235

    As a intermediate, the transition to sumo has meant my form has not only become more consistent, but also heavier and safer. Conventional just stresses my hips and makes me want to use my back more, which became an issue at higher weights resulting in worse form. I'm 6'3, 105kg.

    • @JustBrandonLim
      @JustBrandonLim 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      For me, 1.8m, 75kg, I started off with sumo first because my friends were mostly doing sumo, I hit a PR of 160kg in about 6 months of regular PPL.
      Recently, I did a switch to train conventional as well, about 3 weeks now, and I'm still struggling to do 140kg 1RM with conventionals cleanly.

    • @JustBrandonLim
      @JustBrandonLim 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@TheJackOfAllTrades777 good advice, im trying to gain more mass, almost 8 months into gymming now, so i made some mistakes, now i only attempt my max during deload.

    • @sondersonics7534
      @sondersonics7534 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Well conventional is more back. Sumo is more like a squat.

    • @Muahahaha234
      @Muahahaha234 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      What you are saying resonated with me 100%. I find sumo allows me to lift with stricter form and virtually no back pain, which was an issue for me around my 1RM, while moving more weight.

    • @JJ-qw4ey
      @JJ-qw4ey 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@TheJackOfAllTrades777 nah it's more hip mobility, I've got the same problem for my squats, so I've got a really open stance. It's just meant I can push safer and higher.

  • @lampros1112
    @lampros1112 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    5:35 "i paid a random tall guy" yes indeed a very "random" one 😂😂. That cracked me up. And the exchange afterwards as well!

  • @TEHBILB
    @TEHBILB ปีที่แล้ว +2

    the Chris cutout judging Jeff from afar while he’s “cheating” on the bench press and lat pulldown, great touch

  • @elikebudi
    @elikebudi 2 ปีที่แล้ว +65

    I really like the graphic designs you’re using in charts or in showing significant points in your fitness movements. Overall, your videos are fun to watch and teaching.

    • @MM-MLT
      @MM-MLT 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      *animation

  • @sebastiengagnon2632
    @sebastiengagnon2632 2 ปีที่แล้ว +23

    Thanks for another great video Jeff. When I started lifting, I started conventional. Lifted for almost 2 years before trying sumo. When I did, I was shocked to discover that sumo was way harder for me than conventional. Now I always use both in my cycles when I program 2 pull days per week. My conventional is still 60lbs over my sumo, so until my sumo pulls get better than my conventional, I will continue to use conventional for powerlifting meets, although I honestly will never say nor secretly think that some other dude pulling sumo at the same meet is cheating. For your reference, I am 44 years old, 6'2" tall and weigh 185lbs and closing in on 3 years of lifting experience. Current single records are 424lbs conventional, 365lbs sumo - Calculated 1RM records are 443lbs conventional, 383lbs sumo.

  • @unknownelite2837
    @unknownelite2837 6 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Hey Jeff, when performing deadlifts, how wide do you have to position your legs when there is no available deadlift platform?

  • @brucejensen3081
    @brucejensen3081 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have old school narrow barbells. I guess I could do a partial sumo. I think I need extra hip flexor and glute stuff. I might incorporate them into my lifting

  • @rodolfomagdaleno1663
    @rodolfomagdaleno1663 2 ปีที่แล้ว +59

    The Intro is just what we expected 🔥 Nippard Supremacy

  • @Schacal6666
    @Schacal6666 2 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    8:59 3 lines above the marked text it is stated: "25-40% [energy expenditure] greater in the conventional group."

    • @SSHayden
      @SSHayden 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Nice catch, wonder why that was not addressed.

    • @krishnakedia9243
      @krishnakedia9243 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@DS-ej9wm he states that HE can lift more weight, as he is a shorter individual and his leverages support sumo better whereas a taller/ heavier individual wouldn't find this strength boost even if he reduced the ROM

    • @BoringChanel
      @BoringChanel 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      That doesn't even matter, means you probably can do more reps with sumo, in rep endurance it matters but strength and hyperthrophy you're not aiming for rep endurance.

    • @nickels8616
      @nickels8616 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Did you read the full sentence or only start at the most convenient point? It's based on work which only takes into account force and displacement. By that logic the predicted energy expenditure on an explosive 50kg upright row could be similar to a 400kg above the knee rack pull and it should be obvious one is significantly harder than the other. Work ≠ difficulty

    • @YajoX
      @YajoX 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      yes, because the distance is longer in conventional.
      but a max strength lift is not failed because you are to weak over a whole distance, a lift is failed because you are to weak at the point of failure. many people seem to not get this point.

  • @arranmacdonald6897
    @arranmacdonald6897 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I died when he started whistling Harry Potter in the intro

  • @bodybuilding_simplified
    @bodybuilding_simplified 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    The intro is golden brah

  • @kevinsips3658
    @kevinsips3658 2 ปีที่แล้ว +177

    I'm 6'2", 240lbs and I switched to sumo about a year ago. My deadlift is up about 70lbs since then and I feel much better after every session. Switching is one of the best decisions I've made at the gym.

    • @vitoconigliaro7926
      @vitoconigliaro7926 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      What was your deadlift weight to start with

    • @kevinsips3658
      @kevinsips3658 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@vitoconigliaro7926 about a year ago it was 550 and had been for about 2 years

    • @austensmith6857
      @austensmith6857 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      We need to up those numbers

    • @jayoh2k
      @jayoh2k 2 ปีที่แล้ว +23

      It's much better because the exercise is much easier. If you can't do more sumo style something is wrong. Add in the fact you're 6'2", the bar has to travel a lot farther conventional style.

    • @Dr_Footbrake
      @Dr_Footbrake 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@jayoh2k I’m not sure there was anything wrong with KK or Benni’s deadlifts

  • @Sunder828
    @Sunder828 2 ปีที่แล้ว +189

    You pointed out you compensate for the shorter range of motion with more weight, that's what I think people mean by "cheating". Not so much if one is objectively easier than the other but that you can lift more weight with one than the other with possibly an equal amount of effort.

    • @nhatho1723
      @nhatho1723 2 ปีที่แล้ว +32

      But why is a wide grip bench press not cheating versus a close grip bench press? They are just different variations of bench presses. Just like sumo and conventional deadlift. Not cheating, just different.

    • @AccendinoMCM
      @AccendinoMCM 2 ปีที่แล้ว +26

      not everyone can lift more with sumo though. If you can, it probably means that your leverages are better for sumo and you should train it if you desire maximum strength.

    • @pidgey4791
      @pidgey4791 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@nhatho1723 if you watch the lifters who have a stupid arch in bench also go very wide so less rom, they just tend to often be female and in smaller weight categories cause big dudes aren’t always as flexible, that’s why you won’t see it as much

    • @danielposh
      @danielposh 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      @@nhatho1723 FALSE. Sumo is the decline bench. it’s easier and shouldn’t even be counted as a lift. It’s a sumo lift not deadlift.

    • @PeteQuad
      @PeteQuad 2 ปีที่แล้ว +21

      I sometimes wonder if commenters even watch the video.

  • @vids595
    @vids595 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Adding weight to make up for reduce ROM is fine for exercise, but is only an admittance that in competition, sumo should be considered a different lift.

  • @Abudzin
    @Abudzin ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I'm not really a gym freak, I only just lift for fun to wind down after office work, but for some reason I also was a deadlift purist (i.e. I only lifted conventional) because I heard somewhere that sumo was cheating "becuase you do half the rep," like with a half-squat. And then I undermined the achievements of people who pulled sumo because I always had this idea that the only reason they pull so much weight is because they choose the "easier" option.
    But then I tried sumo myself and my god, it was like a super-hero protagonist discovering his new power. I don't necessarily mean it in the sense that I could pull more weight, but it's about the fact that I really felt all the right muscles on my back activating. I'm a rather tall guy with long legs and long arms, so when I pulled conventional, my back was usually slightly arched when I pulled the weight, which is why I had difficulties activating the muscles on my back. But with sumo, when the distance towards the barbell is a a bit shortened, due to the fact that my long legs are further apart, it works like a miracle! With sumo I not only just pull a little bit more weight, but I also feel like I'm doing it the safer and healthier way.

  • @addstrength1422
    @addstrength1422 2 ปีที่แล้ว +28

    Props to Jeff for trying to end this stupid debate, unfortunately I think people like to argue too much for it to ever be truly resolved.

    • @lukas_g243
      @lukas_g243 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      There’s no debate, sumo is cheating

    • @Schizoid1311
      @Schizoid1311 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      ​@@lukas_g243 Some people are simply not built to pull conventional. So they both are equal

  • @Rowsbeforehoes
    @Rowsbeforehoes 2 ปีที่แล้ว +100

    Jeff this vid was phenomenal! I love you and Chris both, that’s why I especially enjoyed all the humor. Top notch gold Jeff keep videos like this coming!

  • @cherbear6847
    @cherbear6847 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Thank you for this video, very informative. I made a comment recently under a video on FB about Sumo being a much more difficult lift for me as opposed to conventional and some arrogant men jumped on me for my opinion. My PR in conventional is 245lbs but in sumo it's way less, it's 155lbs, I don't do sumo as often as I do conventional, I prefer conventional on back days. I appreciate this video. 🙏🏾

    • @chrisoliver4663
      @chrisoliver4663 ปีที่แล้ว

      Sorry you had to deal with that garbage. There's a lot of misinformed people in the fitness community.

    • @90sajen
      @90sajen 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      You lift less on sumo cuz you train sumo less. That's it. Everybody lifts more sumo if they train for it.

  • @grandmastagrimm8773
    @grandmastagrimm8773 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I’m 6’4 with a sumo I feel like my position is a lot better allows me to lower the hips and glutes and maintain a better back position. With conventional I feel like my shoulders are in a weird position and can’t lower hips as much idk

  • @sasafrass86
    @sasafrass86 2 ปีที่แล้ว +49

    This had me laughing hard, best video by far. This was informative (always is), included passive comedy (best yet), and really dove in to a topical issue in current trends (always do). Keep it up Jeff, I'm certainly a fan.

  • @adamsellers3670
    @adamsellers3670 2 ปีที่แล้ว +92

    I think it's important to mention bar bend w/ the extreme outlier heavy sumo pulls. A sumo stance allows your hands to be much closer together than a conventional stance, which increased the moment arm length between the weight and the hand, which allows the bar to bend a hell of a lot more for the same weight. Similar to stiff bar vs deadlift bar, or deadlifting from 1-2in blocks, this can make the pull much easier from the floor which is a huge advantage for some. Watch someone like Jerry Pritchett who deadlifts with an insanely wide grip. The bar hardly flexes even at 1000lbs, compared to any 800+# sumo pull.

    • @sirfranciscanadianbacon1468
      @sirfranciscanadianbacon1468 2 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      Interesting edge case, maybe Jeff needs to hire you as a consultant for the future. Although, he did show that the majority of lifters who could manage the outlier heavy sumo pull prefer to pull conventionally, which minimizes the significance of your proposed edge case. Still interesting to think about.

    • @solcoster8110
      @solcoster8110 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      This comment should be pinned

    • @PauloGomezPG
      @PauloGomezPG 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Underrated comment

    • @mjp121
      @mjp121 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@sirfranciscanadianbacon1468 YO actually a well reasoned OC with a well reasoned rebuttal. Points to both

    • @alexwenger9655
      @alexwenger9655 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      That's super advantageous at high weight.

  • @mattgoforth8897
    @mattgoforth8897 ปีที่แล้ว

    Lol when he put the kiwi in Chris cutout face 😅😅😅

  • @adammeade2300
    @adammeade2300 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Concerning the topic at @3:30, I would say it's more a function of height. It stands to reason that, on average, the height of lifters increases as their body weight increases. Similarly, the slightly advantageous leverages of sumo provide diminishing return as a lifter become taller. It's all about ratios. Now, I'm not saying this explains the issue entirely, but I'd wager that that's the primary factor behind the trend.

  • @dakotahrivers6640
    @dakotahrivers6640 2 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    Love that you’re branching out with your style of content. Keep it up brother, we all learn so much plus it’s entertaining

  • @capyboi-776
    @capyboi-776 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    "Random tall guy" fucking love it

  • @zacht9447
    @zacht9447 ปีที่แล้ว

    I think Shoulder width in relation to height is probably far more of an indicator of which you will be better at than body weight.

  • @wickedgummybear3104
    @wickedgummybear3104 ปีที่แล้ว

    I had a groin surgery a year back and just can't deadlift normal anymore. Sumo still works but even there I have to be careful. For me the tension in the groin is aloooot less during a sumo deadlift.

  • @francoisthomas8405
    @francoisthomas8405 2 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    Clear, concise, no bro bs, as always, Jeff is the King we wanted ! I (80kilos, 173cm male) recently found I liked sumo more than conventional, even though I did the later for far longer, but was not happy about my progress on the DL. With the switch, AND the fact I placed DL at the beginning of the week, I enjoy it a lot more, and feel stronger on it.

  • @Gianluca1831
    @Gianluca1831 2 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    Hey Jeff, do you happen to have any data on the weight increase/decrease between conventional and sumo for the tall guy in your video? I am a tall guy too (6 foot 3) and conventional I pull more than sumo, yet I am uncertain whether that purely comes from muscle imbalances between hams/glutes vs quads in my case so I am not very representative as an average in this case

  • @gamingbtc
    @gamingbtc ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I'm 6 feet tall and find sumo way more comfortable for me. I have to stretch down so far at the start of the lift and it caused a lot of pain on my knee that I broke years ago (and this knee always has pain). When I lift with sumo I have a small fraction of the knee pain as conventional, yet I feel like my muscles are all engaged just as much. For context I'm repping about 300lbs and I weigh 220.

  • @Cub9carry
    @Cub9carry ปีที่แล้ว +1

    arch on bench didnt age well considering its been nerfed to make it more fair..
    I think in then next few years we will see significant changes to rules and i think sumo will be included in such

  • @backrewire
    @backrewire 2 ปีที่แล้ว +72

    The best start to one of your videos to date. Had me laughing during my lunch break😂

  • @WheresWaldon123
    @WheresWaldon123 2 ปีที่แล้ว +83

    We need more videos like this Jeff! Hilarious and educational! I had a giant smile this whole video!

    • @jvcn2138
      @jvcn2138 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Completely agree hope he see this

  • @hunter_69_69
    @hunter_69_69 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Fantastic video. Just shows how logic and reasoning are completely optional in today's fitness industry, and logical fallacies are encouraged.

  • @rty08
    @rty08 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    "Some people say deadlifts are for leg day, some people say deadlifts are for back day, I say they're for another day." - Dom Mazetti

  • @Marckus62
    @Marckus62 ปีที่แล้ว +56

    The real issue that causes people to call Sumo "cheating," is the increase of athletes who use a ridiculously wide sumo stance. They usually are feet rotated way out to the sides with a stance so wide they risk crushing their toes with the plates. The ROM at that point is over 5" in difference from conventional pulling. They're knees are already mostly extended also. So like you said, with a high partial squat being the easiest part, they're knees being almost fully extended allows for just the tiniest bit of knee and hip extension to lock out. So with 2 joints (knees, hip) going through maybe at most 15° of ROM max to move a barbell up 12", then people become skeptical.
    Your sumo stance is very very narrow compared to a lot of the sumo pullers that show up on my feed. If you look at Brian Shaws deadlift he uses a stupid wide conventional stance, almost as wide as your sumo. However he keeps his hands between his knees thus keeping it a "conventional," pull.

    • @Freshlinens
      @Freshlinens 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I’ve seen the same which confused me because I thought vertical shins was one of the hallmarks of a good sumo setup. The people I see going super wide have their shins diagonal and it looks like their MCLs are about to explode when they start lifting

    • @mission3479
      @mission3479 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Doesn't matter how wide thier legs are because thier trading for a shorter range of motion for in increase in force per distance required to pull the bar above thier knees. The total force required is still same either way.

  • @espyroxl1346
    @espyroxl1346 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Maintaining your physique.
    Jeff I'd love to see a video explaining how once you've achieved the physique/weight goal you were aiming for, how to maintain that weight, and possibly also how to continue gaining strength while maintaining weight if that is even really possible. As a skinny guy who competes in fighting sports, I would like to move up through weight classes, but eventually I will need to, and want to, stop for competitive weight class reasons. But there doesn't seem to be a lot of information out there on how to just, maintain yourself once you achieve your goals.
    I think from a mental health standpoint this is important as well because the idea of "moving goalposts" is very prevalent in the fitness realm and something like this would help people understand that it's okay to enter a maintenance phase once you are happy with your progress