My Hospital Birth Story: 86 1/2 Hour Labor & Surprise Gender Birth Gone Wrong
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 มี.ค. 2024
- This is NOT what I would consider a positive birth story so please watch with caution! Although I had a healthy baby and I escaped a cesarean, my surprise gender birth did not go to plan. I thought I was prepared for an unmedicated hospital birth, but that did not work out the way I had hoped and prepared for. With an entire birth course, books, podcasts, and a surplus of natural birth stories under my belt, I still did not manage to leave the hospital without an epidural.
My birth experience catapulted me into learning everything I could about birth. After processing my birth and doing a ton of research, I figured out it wasn't just the epidural I needed to try to avoid. There are so many other interventions that contribute to getting a natural unmedicated birth!
Instead of taking this as a negative, please learn from the things I did and did not do to get the birth experience you want!
#crunchymom #birthstory #hospitalbirth #birthstories
It’s a whole different game when they think the baby may have ingested meconium aspiration!! Medical staff must do what’s best for your child regardless of what your expectations were…
You should check out this podcast! open.spotify.com/episode/0blrYkGkDK2O5MjzRoSWFz?si=vqwTkv0iQ8WmJw93ykGTDw
Just to be clear, so that other first timers don't get the wrong idea ... no one has an 80+ hour labour. Labour doesn't start until you're 4cm dilated. It's SO important to stress that, so energy isn't wasted freaking out about those early and relatively mild contractions.
Oh man yeah this is not meant to freak out any first time mamas! I think there are so many lessons to learn from my experience. I do disagree on the dilation though. From my research, dilation really doesn’t tell you much unfortunately.
It's true that no one is in active labor for 80+ hours, but that does not mean that the hours/days of contractions before that are "mild." I had contractions less than 10 minutes apart for 84 hours - it was early labor until the last 8-10, but strong and frequent enough contractions that I could not sleep through them and had to vocalize. Of course I also don't say this to scare anyone, I ended up having an unmedicated birth on the toilet with no tearing and an easy recovery. But I was so, so tired! I'm glad I knew enough not to panic about the length of it so I didn't end up with unnecessary interventions.
@@CrunchyMomClub That's fine. I'm in obstetrics so I'm just telling what the professional position is. Around the world, labour isn't considered active (ie actual labour) until at least 4cm. Prior to that is 'pre-labour'. Basically just ripening the cervix.
I agree that dilation doesn't tell you much about how you're progressing, unless you check several times, over a period of time. A single read can only tell you whether you're in active labour or not.
As for how we individually respond to pre-labour, that's mind stuff. Some first timers ignore it completely, carry on with their day, and arrive at hospital at 9cm dilated and feeling pushy. Because our response differs according to our personality and attitude, our presentations are all different. Unfortunately many first timers do 'fight' the pain, which makes it considerably worse, AND slows progress.
She was very clear about HER experience and it sounds like it was indeed a long 86 hour labor. Meconium is also frequent. It is absolutely FALSE that labour doesn't "begin" until your 4cm dilated. Every woman every prengnacy is unique. I've given birth eight times. The hardest part of my labour for me personally is reaching 4cm I typically spend 90 of my total laboring time getting to 4cm once I hit 4 I tend to hit 10cm deliver within 30 mins (with or without epidural) labour isn't a cookie cutter one size fits all.
@@leannd9072 Sure, and HER experience was HERS. Like I said, it's quite subjective. But in the business we DO have firm criteria, whether you like it or not.
And no matter what you prefer to believe, we only consider it active labour from 4cm. Whatever happens before that, is just preparation for that labour. In your case (and in my own, with my own three births), there is a day or so of pre-labour, and very quick active labour. For other women it might be just a few hours of pre-labour, then many hours of active labour. None of which changes the 4cm thing. As you yourself said, it's different for every woman ... but every woman is still regarded as not in labour until 4cm.
It’s not the drugs in the epidural that cause you to go to sleep. It’s the total relaxation and lack of pain in your body.
It’s hard to say for certain either way!
@@CrunchyMomClub well, considering the drugs do not enter your circulation, but merely bathe the spinal nerves, I think they do know.
@@CrunchyMomClubUhhh no.. It’s pretty certain lol.
@@CrunchyMomClubbecause obviously you know better than thousands of doctors who spend decades researching.
Yes true! Because even with fentanyl and then epidural, I still couldn’t sleep because I was so excited to meet my baby 😂. All it does is take away the pain. Giving birth to my daughter was the most peaceful, enjoyable experience ❤
Back labor is extremely painful. I had back labor for my first and I went through early labor for weeks. I remember I went into the hospital and they told me I was 4 cm but not contracting regularly enough I could stay at hospital or I could go home so I went home and I literally stayed pregnant and miserable for the next 10 days with back labor and contractions the whole way! Very frustrating and painful. Finally had her in a very fast natural birth 10 days after. That was 25 years ago when they didn't interfere with labor as much. Back labor is agonizing and confusing for the first pregnancy. I literally just felt like my back was breaking and I constantly had pressure like I had to go poop 😅 I spent a lot of time in the tub and in the shower trying to relieve the pain. Glad that you still kind of had a surprise with the gender and that he was healthy ❤️
Oh wow your story is crazy! That must have been so tough mentally and physically. Thank you for sharing that!
I can sense the disappointment of things not going the way you'd hope in the end but you should be so so proud of yourself for this birth!! There were many times when you couldve given up (and many women do) much earlier in your labor and you didn't. It was smart to stay home as long as you could and I loved how you continued to advocate for yourself and your baby (turning down medications/interventions) whenever you could. You were a very informed first time mom and it shows! I had a shorter labor but a very similar first time birth so I can relate to the feelings of disappointment and frustration. You learn as much as you can going into it but there's nothing that can really prepare you mentally and spiritually for birth until you go through it! I just wanted to offer some encouragement and words of wisdom (that you don't have to listen to because I'm a stranger on the internet lol) BUT birth is more spiritual than anything else. A lot of what makes a "successful" unmedicated/"natural" birth experience is the understanding that you must surrender to it fully. And hold space for the instinctual mother to come out and do the work. Remaining in a dark, quiet space. Keeping the labor private (not telling a bunch of people or inviting a bunch of energies into your home). Not "thinking" so much about what you should be doing or the timing or really anything that requires actual thought at all. The more your conscious brain does, the less space there is for your subconscious, instinctual brain to continue pumping the right hormones and leading your body to move your baby out. All the vaginal checks often do nothing but disappoint. And honestly, they are accurate or reliable as the cervix is a sphincter, it can open and close... alot of people don't know that. Anywho, I hope that one day you feel comfortable enough to try again! Birth can still be magical and beautiful! Good luck to you!
You’re so sweet! Thank you for saying all of that. I agree with it all and I’m so glad you could relate to it❤️
Also, the reason you progressed so fast once you had the epidural, is because you were no longer over reacting to the discomfort of early labour. Your stress levels were so high that adrenaline blocked the prostaglandins necessary for progress. This happens when we have an extreme response to pain.
Early labour is uncomfortable for everyone. It's not painful in the way labour is, but it's not painless either. It's our response which matters. The pain is basically the same for everyone, but we all respond to it differently.
You know it’s crazy how different people can feel during labor. It really depends on a lot of thinks like if you have back labor or not, where your baby is positioned, and even the alignment of your own body. Early labor is intense for some and for others they have no idea isn’t even happening!
Another thing to think about is how Pitocin plays a role in speeding up labor. Typically, from my research, epidurals can make labor slow down.
I also said many time the back labor was the only real “pain” I was feeling. Although my labor was long, I was extremely calm, quiet, and relaxed through contractions. I hope that’s comforting for moms!
I’m so sorry your experience was so much different than you desired for your birth but way to go for allowing it to move you forward rather than making you fearful for the future. My third birth was incredibly redeeming and I hope you will be able to have the same experience with your next baby!
That’s so awesome to hear! Thank you for sharing that❤️
Great story sweet mommy!
Thank you for sharing your story!!! And congratulations on your sweet baby. As a doula I'm sorry that some of your wishes weren't heard or respected (them changing the Pitocin without your consent, not delaying cord clamping longer, etc) but I pray that your next birth experience can be more positive in your eyes. Everyone's labor is so unique and there is so much to learn from the stories. Thank you for being brave and vulnerable enough to share yours :)
You are so sweet! Thank you for such kind words. I definitely should have hired a doula for my birth and I recommend one for anyone trying to have a natural birth. I’m thankful for what you do🤍
my daughter is 38 wks along....she has a birth plan very much like yours. She is adamant that everything must go according to her plan. Natural, no drugs...She has hired a birth doula to be sure her wishes are respected. I'm so glad to have seen your video. and feel very much less stressed about what to possibly expect. I personally had three babies, all with epidural...and have a hard time thinking I will be seeing my daughter in such pain. Thanks for sharing your birth experience.
Oh how exciting for your daughter! I definitely think having a doula would have helps tremendously so I’m happy she is doing that! Good luck to her and you❤️
What you saw on the screen was probably referring to your gender.
Labor starts when you are in active labor, not from your first contraction. From 4-5 cm on. You did so well but I’m sorry about the gender thing, but healthy baby and healthy mom is most important.
Hmm interesting I’ve never heard it that way!
@@CrunchyMomClubYes, that is correct. Congratulations on your baby boy! I can remember my grandmother telling me that she had contractions like you did for a solid seven days. I had a baby that had meconium when my water broke. Like you he was whisked away for them to suction him to make sure he didn’t aspirate any. Unfortunately he did and ended up in the NICU due to a bacterial infection in his lungs from it. He had to stay for two weeks and it was so hard leaving him there. I was able to take my breast milk and they bottle fed it to him but because I wasn’t able to be there every 3 hours for two weeks to feed him because I had a terrible tear that required them to stitch two layers and I had so many stitches it was almost impossible for me to sit that by the time he came home he would not breast feed. We tried everything. I was heartbroken. Between that and my extensive wound care that I was having to go through to heal it sent me into PPD. It was the most difficult recovery. I tell everyone that it was worse than my C-section. It’s a whole different hurt from having an incision on your stomach to having a cut down there that goes from one hole to the next and they still had to use forceps to get this little 4 lbs 12 oz baby out of you. Those little boys can give us a difficult long labor. Both of my boys did. One emergency C-section and one 36 hour labor. My 3 girls labors were beautiful and easy. I pray your next labor is speedy and smooth. ❤❤❤
@@CrunchyMomClub Seriously? They didn't tell you that in birthing classes? It should be common knowledge.
google says labour starts when you start feeling your first contractions?
@@xl0vex97x don’t believe everything that you read on google, labor is defined as uterine contractions that are long enough and strong enough to make cervical change, usually diagnosed by cervical exams.
My first birth was very similar! 4 days (or nights I should say) of prodromal labor. I was SO EXHAUSTED. I didn’t get pitocin to induce but we did do the midwives brew of castor oil. Which messed with my baby’s heart rate. I still did have a natural birth like I wanted but I did end up in the hospital and was traumatized by the nurses there bullying us. I am now expecting my 4th baby. It gets easier(as in shorter). Every birth is different!
That’s not fun, but super exciting to hear about your 4th!! Congratulations ❤️
It is so common to hear about nurses bullying. My daughter just had a baby but she went to a birth clinic but her best friend went to a hospital and totally had a horrible time dealing with very mean nurses that would not honor her plan. So frustrating. I really hope that the birthing industry gets a big shake-up. It needs it. It's so different from when I was having my kids 20 + years ago
I had back labor with both my kids ,it's a longer harder labor
Sorry about that! I feel your pain
Similar to my birth story, in that I had very long labor as well- once contractions started, it was two nights of not sleeping but trying to sleep while slouched over on my birthing ball :( contractions were close at 3 am one night but then completely slowed...I dont remember now if I tried doing different positions or not before I headed out to see midwife but I was exhausted. FINALLY, 24 hours later, they were at the 3 minute interval again...then in active labor, the only thing I could do was pace until my midwife said it was ok to try for a water birth. the water was great, but after an hour or so of pushing in the tub, she said it wasn't doing anything and that I should try to push on my back. another hour of pushing in that position and it was all finally over. ugh!
Oh man! Well I hope you and your baby are happy and healthy now. Seems like you went through a pretty tough time. Glad we could relate on the sleeping piece of birth too haha
Gender page might have been YOUR GENDER…🤔😉
Lol yeah maybe. It just seemed weird to have to put female considering anyone giving birth is a female🙃
Myself and my partner had planned to do a gender reveal with family and had asked the hospital not to give us the gender but it did say 'Female' on one of the forms and it did turn out to be relating to MY gender so probably was refering to yours too 😂
Ive had six babies. The last one kinda went like this. I do want to tell anyone thats reading these comments that my painfull back labor and long labor ended up being because baby was posterior. awful back labor. I wasnt actually even dilating. only 1 cm when getting to the hospital (all of my other babies I was dilated to at least a 7 when i got in to the hospital). What I learned is how important it is to get baby into the optimal position way in advance! The contractions are happening because your body is trying to move the baby into the right position. Its so painful because baby is pushing on your back and thats also why theres no dilation. It sounds like this baby was a big boy so he couldnt make the turn which is why its so important to start getting the baby in the correct position earlier. So, in third trimester (or sooner) no reclining, Do hands and knees 15 min a day (it gets baby out of posterior position and teaches them how to enter the birth canal) I can actually feel baby moving down after ten min of hands and knees. If baby still isnt getting out of posterior position or any of the other weird positions that babies get into then spinning babies really helps tell you which exercises to do and in what order (order is very important!!). I think the reason babies get in these positions so frequently now is because we live such sedentary lives. Women used to do a lot more laborious tasks throughout the day. Anyway, exercise is SO good for positioning during pregnancy. Sitting a lot is bad. If you do sit, sit with your knees lower than your hips/pelvis. Hope this helps someone! Im pregnant with baby number seven and I pray this one goes smoothly!!
Oh my goodness thank you so much for writing all of this🤍 such good insight! Definitely keeping this in the back of my mind for my next baby!
Also congratulations on your 7th baby. How amazing!!!
Did her water break 85 hours before birth or was she just having braxton hicks aka early labor for 3 days????
Typically Braxton Hicks don’t have a pattern and your cervix doesn’t dilate. Also they tend to stop if you move or get in different positions.
They had a consistent pattern from the start, I did dilate, and they never stopped. Different people can call it different things though. This is just a story of my experience! 😊
Hicks for three days. It's not uncommon. And yes, they commonly efface and dilate the cervix a few cms.
So similar to mine, same amount of hours exactly. Only difference, i ended with cesarean. Also to the people claiming it's not labor till you're 4 cm dilated, that's bullshit! A whole day of pitocin turned as high as possible is definitely labor, and definitely painful, and doesn't always mean it's dilating the person as it should.
@@CrunchyMomClub Some women in active labor & transition have no pattern whatsoever.
@@pm2886 I had hicks for weeeeeks but had a very short birth.
Sounds simulator mine except I don’t remember losing my mucus plug. My water broke at 7pm and I had my daughter 21 hours later. I had planned a natural birth, but wasn’t progressing. I got stuck at 2cm and 19 hours in i decided to do Pitocin and an hour after starting that decided to go ahead and get an epidural in case i were to have to get a c-section I would already be numb. I had the same pain in my back. I never felt any contractions in my stomach, but felt immense discomfort in my back (possibly cause a had a posterior placenta) I think is what it was called. Anyway, glad you got a healthy baby boy.
Generally, back pain during labor (and no belly pain) indicates the baby is posterior. It means the baby is head down but the back of their skull and their spine are pressing against your spine. Getting on all fours and arching and relaxing your back can encourage them to flip to anterior. Babies can and are born in posterior presentation -- they call them "sunny side up" or "stargazers" because when their head emerges they're look up at the sky (if you're lying on your back). Posterior lies also generally take longer to be born.
Thank you! I hope if you have more babies you can get that natural birth you were hoping for!
I was thinking about the gender thing. I wonder if it was your identifying patient information which would state female.
You're a patient woman. My husband would not be getting sleep like that! They may not carry the baby...but they helped make them. I'm sorry but I'd have to say get your ass up 😂 you must have said 5 times this man was sleeping...like sleep away the hard part...until it's time for the baby....what??
With that said. I'm sorry you went through such a traumatic birth. Us women are superheroes for sure!!
Haha he was helpful, but also yes he did sleep. I did make him get up multiple time lol. I don’t think men will ever fully understand.
@@CrunchyMomClubmine did the same thing. Annoying as hell…!
According to the American Academy of Pediatrics and the American Heart Association’s Neonatal Resuscitation program, if baby is vigorous and crying at birth, you do not investigate for meconium aspiration. If baby is limp, without spontaneous respirations, they do suction.
Wow I did not know that!
My daughter was born in the hospital, by “ emergency C-section”….. because they saw meconium.
She cried vigorously, and was whisked away from me, aspirated and put in nicu for 6 hrs.
So…?
Did they just not follow the rules?
@@CrunchyMomClub- please read my comment….!❤
I had pitocin with no epidural and it was in labor for 4 days before the hospital was able to do anything only reason they did was cause my water broke then 23 hours after my water broke i had my baby ! It is possible!
Oh my goodness, how crazy! I’ve never heard a story like that. Good for you!!
Wow wow wow, im so sorry you had to go thru 86 hr.s of pain, but congrats. Next birth will be so diff. I had 3 premature babies, altho the first one a girl was the smallest and earliest at 6 wks early.
Oh wow! That’s crazy. I hope all your babies are doing well!
Damn my labor was 84 hours and I've been waiting to hear someone beat me :P
Oh wow!! It’s wild how long labor can be and how different it is for every person!
Thank you so much for sharing your story! I am currently 33 weeks and i want to know about everything thst could happen so i can best advocate for myself and my baby from any unnecessary interventions, i want a natural birth the same way you did, and im so sorry that didnt happen for you, honestly i think you should be contacting the hospital management to complain that your wishes were not respected and its no wonder your labour lasted so long with so much negetivity surrounding you, fair play momma you did amazing ❤❤
How exciting for you! I’d definitely recommend a doula if you’re wanting a natural birth. Especially if you are going the hospital route!
I also have a video on what I would have done differently. That may be helpful for you!
I hope you have an amazing birth a healthy rest of your pregnancy❤️❤️
What kind of doctor would let you labor for that long? Thankful that your baby is alive😊
I’m glad I have a healthy baby too, but I don’t blame the doctors for my labor!
I had a very similar birth stpry with my first child. 54 hours total and epidural was unsuccessful. They tried 3 times and couldn't get it to work. 😫 The labor was awful and i tore so bad they had to call in a plastic surgeon to stitch me up because i was rold it looked like the exit wound of a gunshot. 😬 My recovery took 3 months until I didn't have pain anymore. I knew I wanted another baby and thankfully my labor and delivery were both amazing that time...as well as the 3rd time. So much easier!!!
Oh my goodness!!! I’m so sorry about that, but wow how awesome to here it got better for you. That’s so awesome to here❤️
What was your husband thinking going to work while your wife is in labour… that would be instant divorce papers.
Lol 😂
Really???
Haha really!
@@CrunchyMomClub❤😂❤
There was so much you could have done to move things alone faster. And you should have considered starting the pitocin sooner if your baby had had their first poop.
Also an epidural works a whole lot better than flash cards!!
Oh man I agree. I think staying home longer would have made my labor shorter, but you live and learn. Pitocin just wasn’t my number one choice due to all the known risks.
Also interesting fact that most people don’t know is that meconium is not actually poop. Anyways sorry for your experience. Praying you have a different outcome if you give birth again! 🤍
I think it’s important got women to find out about birth and know what’s all happening during labour before giving birth. You can feel so helpless. I read a lot of north stories and had a great midwife and had no fear giving birth. But if you don’t know what’s going to or might happen you can be freaked out. Congratulations.
Yes totally agree and thank you❤️
Sorry....but if you're having contractions every minute why are they starting to give you pitocin? That makes no sense to me 😮😮😮
Congratulations 🎊 👏 💐 🥳
Haha I still don’t know the answer to that one…
Because they weren't established labour contractions. They weren't doing anything.
This was certainly a long and annoying labor… but I’m sorry but this video didn’t need to be prefaced with a look away warning. Your birth sounded wonderful. Congratulations
I had 5 minutes to come to terms with having to have a c-section and then my baby was taken from my belly. Which was traumatic and I still cry about it.
Oh man I’m so sorry that happened to you! I hope if you have more babies things will be different.
I totally get how your birth seemed way more traumatic than mine, but that doesn’t take away from how my birth felt for me. I prefaced the video for any new mamas looking for positive, unmedicated birth.
Again I’m so sorry for what happened to you. I truly wouldn’t wish that for any mom!❤️
Sorry. You were not in active labour until your water broke. You had very powerful Braxton Hicks for days - as most Mums do. Fi a First Baby you had a normal timed labour, you didn't have forceps, it sounds like you did DN have an episiotomy, th unkindest cut. Birth plans are just that, a plan. But when it comes to the actual event your baby needs come first, these are people who do this stuff for a living. You wouldn't think if telling a mechanic, electrician or plumber how to do their job. In labour you hope for the best, but be prepared to have to change your plan for a healthy Baby and mother. Good luck with Baby number 2! X
Prodromal labor is a real thing. It’s not Braxton-Hicks, it’s just early labor. But you’re right, it’s not “active labor,” which usually begins at about four centimeters.
Yes, labor didn’t turn into active labor until hours after my water broke! I totally understand not telling the doctors what to do and yes it is there job! They are great in emergencies or when things go wrong. The more you learn about birth though, you’ll see how often doctors intervene in situations they don’t need to. Birth is usually simple and can be done without anyone’s help other than mom and baby. Thank you for listening to my story and for wishing me luck on baby #2!🤍
@@susanmocsnythomas1428 Prodromal labour is real, but it can't be "reacted to" in the way this woman did. It's essential to stay calm and relaxed, and keep things in perspective. The pain doesn't really start til you're at least 4cm. Before that is a cakewalk by comparison.
I am surprised with your attitude towards this. Seems like you tortured yourself for 80 hours "birthing the RIGHT way", then you finally listened to those terrible doctors and you had the rest of the birth fast and easy. Don't you think that if you went with pytosin and epidural you would have a very different positive experience and by day 5 be already home with your baby boy?
I don’t think there is any “right” way to birth. I also don’t think the doctors are dumb, I think they are doing exactly what they are trained to do.
I totally see how it seemed like I tortured myself and I think I even mentioned that! There were a ton of positives and things I learned through the birth I had. Pitocin and an epidural are just not what I personally think are best for mama and baby! (Depending on the circumstances of course😊)
@@CrunchyMomClub this is what I don't get. After everything YOU have been through why do YOU (not what some random doula on the internet) think epidurals and pitocin are not a good idea?
Try homebirth next time…
I will!
@@CrunchyMomClub awesome! Freebirth? 😉
Any tips on preparing for a homebirth after an experience very similar to hers, only it'd also be a vbac . And also dealing with a high chance of having cholestisis again.
I had three daughters my first in hospital didn’t like the experience next two at home and it was fantastic,congratulations on your bundle of joy ❤
Thanks for sharing!
You’re right about Pitocin! Everyone I know that got PIT, got an epidural. I did 46ish hours of labor 13 in the hospital… I was doing great! But I was a VBAC so the clock was ticking as soon as I got to the hospital. Also I was 42 weeks on the dot 😭😭😭and had been at a 8cm for 10 hours…. So I eventually got Pitocin. Typically @ my hospital, they start at a (2). I guess the flow level? I refused and only let them go up 1 at a time. Within 5 minutes of getting pitocin, I was only at 1, and I was screaming for that epidural. I didn’t care about anything but stopping the pain. It felt so unnatural
The fact that pitocin is labeled as oxytocin at the hospital BLOWS MY MIND. it’s essentially the same chemical compound, but it can’t cross your blood brain barrier like REAL NATURAL oxytocin. So therefore it doesn’t have the same affects. There’s a reason pregnant women release a crazy amount of oxytocin in labor. We need those happy hormones to mask the pain, along with adrenaline.
Anywaysssss
I enjoyed listening to your story 🩷
Thank you for sharing all of that as well! I totally agree with everything about Pitocin… it’s crazy!
And thanks for watching🤍 I was hoping other people could relate!
I was on pitocin for 19 hours with no epidural offered. For the last 12 hours, I had 1 constant contraction (no break). I almost did not have another baby because of the trauma. I was begging for a c section. To make it worse, he was stuck, I pushed for 3 hours only to have him pulled out of me via forceps and had a 4th degree tear. It was the worst experience of my life!😢
Im glad i went in with no expectations i just wanted a vaginal birth praying for no c-section. i ended up being too late for a epidural so i pushed my son out in 3, i pushed so hard i ripped but i just wanted to get my son out.
@@Sunflowers36 I think the only reason Pitocin affected me so drastically right away was because I was already laboring for almost 30 hours by the time I got it.
But I have heard similar stories with induction
My mom did Pitocin with no epidural. It can be done! I always tell her what a feat that is!