I think it's important to take note of the fact that Dune Messiah was originally supposed to be part of the first book! Hence why it felt like a "stepping stone" or a piece of something else.
Dont know if anyone gives a damn but if you are stoned like me during the covid times then you can watch pretty much all the latest series on Instaflixxer. Have been binge watching with my gf these days =)
I've always viewed it as the real epilogue to Dune, as opposed to a stepping stone. I find without it the implications of Dune's ending is difficult to pick out
Dune feels like your teenage years where you're capable of anything and defiant to the world, while Messiah feels like your adult years of getting kicked in the head at every turn and overburdened by an inescapable path in life. The sequel is much more character-driven than the action-driven original, and I think that bores people. Personally, Paul's journey of frustration, turmoil, resentment, and eventually, a tragic sense of peace resonated strongly with me.
It makes me sad that people see Dune Messiah as a filler-type book, from Dune to Children of Dune. I always loved the Dune chronicles, but-as I have been making my way through re-reading the chronicles-I found Dune Messiah incredibly thought provoking and impactful in its explorations of choice, fate, and sacrifice. Give Dune Messiah the credit it deserves, dammit!
Messiah has some amazing moments and builds off of the first dune so perfectly (AND subverts the original themes) No idea why people rate it so low, either!
It’s probably the disconnect. The books starts up after the jihad. You don’t get anything but former vets describing the events. That’s the biggest problem. It picks up YEARS later. The fremen sterilized like 90 systems. They mention everything that happened, but you don’t really get a sense of it. My favorite parts were the former fremen death commandos and jihadis describing their own views on things. You have returning conquerors now living in luxury. So that was cool. Otherwise most of messiah is the skin changer and Irulan complaining about Paul not Impregnating her. Also Paul’s sister (idk how to spell her name) is….something…the incest parts and the parts where she falls in love with a clone of a man who was good friends with her brother was…strange. But I guess the orgy stuff doesn’t really get brought up in the movies. That’s kind of a book only feature. Honestly I’d say it’s the worst because it’s boring. Skipped over all the cool stuff for Paul being annoyed, his wife being annoyed, his concubine/love of his life is an amazing woman. They seem to truly be in love, but that’s also much less boring than galactic genocide. And 50% of the book was about how Paul really doesn’t wanna make a child with Irulan. I get why, but I also would like more about Paul being emperor and less about how he loved his qt trad concubine more than the Royal Princess
Dune Messiah has the best plot of any book ever written. The conspirators create a weapon that Paul cannot resist, he is given a choice he cannot make, and his victory is one he does not want.
Messiah is my favorite book in the series. It's very personal and deals with the concept of inhuman apotheosis and trappings of power with such fierce human emotion. It's very tragic, but at the same time it feels like Herbert is asking the reader "Well, what the hell were you expecting? Did you not read Dune? Did you not see the warning signs?".
The prose in Dune Messiah is fucking gorgeous no idea how anyone could think otherwise. I legit fucking wept at the ending because of how much the description of Paul's final words rocked me. Dune feels like it was written using the Voice, it uses beautiful words efficiently to affect the most change in the reader. My favorite passage from the second to last chapter: Paul turned away. Ugly, barren land! He imagined it sun-soaked and monstrous with heat, a place of sandslides and the drowned darkness of dust pools, blowdevils unreeling tiny dunes across the rocks, their narrow bellies full of ochre crystals. But it was a rich land, too: big, exploding out of narrow places with vistas of storm-trodden emptiness, rampart cliffs and tumbledown ridges. All it required was water . . . and love. Life changed those irascible wastes into shapes of grace and movement, he thought. That was the message of the desert. Contrast stunned him with realization. He wanted to turn to the aides massed in the sietch entrance, shout at them: If you need something to worship, then worship life -- all life, every last crawling bit of it! We're all in this beauty together! They wouldn't understand. In the desert, they were endlessly desert. Growing things performed no green ballet for them. He clenched his fists at his sides, trying to halt the vision. He wanted to flee from his own mind. It was a beast come to devour him! Awareness lay in him, sodden, heavy with all the living it had sponged up, saturated with too many experiences. Desperately, Paul squeezed his thoughts outward. Stars! Awareness turned over at the thought of all those stars above him -- an infinite volume. A man must be half mad to imagine he could rule even a teardrop of that volume. He couldn't begin to imagine the number of subjects his Imperium claimed. Subjects? Worshippers and enemies, more likely. Did any among them see beyond rigid beliefs? Where was one man who'd escaped the narrow destiny of his prejudices? Not even an Emperor escaped. He'd lived a 'take everything' life, tried to create a universe in his own image. But the exultant universe was breaking across him at last with its silent waves. I spit on Dune! he thought. I give it my moisture!
@@chugg159 To be fair I was on cocaine at the time and even when I'm not I have audiobooks play at least 2× speed to keep up. Just a fast reader I suppose. I read Stephen King's The Stand 3 times in 2020. Dune: Messiah also it caters to some of my favorite tropes in a book/film. I love the fall of a hero and reduced location settings. The fewer sets the happier I am. Things like The Hateful Eight, One Night in Miami, Reservoir Dogs and Wait Until Dark. Probably the only installment in the Dune series that could be a stageplay.
@@thecinephiliac4034 I never looked at Messiah from the perspective of a stageplay. I'll have to look at it like that more, though Irulan and Mohaim's finger-talk would be a challenge for any screenwriter. I'm in the middle of Messiah right now, and some of the settings don't really fit. Frank often describes bright golds, blues, and reds in basically every setting up to the point I'm at. You would think that Arrakeen only 12-13 years later wouldn't look much different. Perhaps I've always visualized Dune incorrectly, but I never remembered much psychedelia in the first book beyond what was absolutely necessary for the plot.
i had just read this two days ago and thought to see what people thought about it. i was shocked by how disregarded the book generally is. i hadn't started children of dune yet so my opinion might change, but right now dune messiah took the favourite spot. as grand and eventful as dune was, dune messiah was exactly my kind of book lol i cried my eyes out at the end
I was shocked how disregarded it was, too! I felt more emotions in Messiah than in the original -- and it is so unique in throwing the Dune premise on its head. Thanks for watching!
I am surprised to hear a lot of people disregard the book. I will say it's not as good as the first but it has a lot of great moments and made Alia my favorite character in the series.
i love how Dune messiah is short and sweet. it really nails the points home and gets the reader to really examine themselves and these characters. Are the people we are rooting for really the "good" guys?
Messiah might be my favorite in the series. I love how concise and well-written it is. The first conversation on Wallach IX between Mohiam, Irulan, Edric, and Scytale is one of my favorites. There's so much inner turmoil in that group. I also love the creation of Paul as the bad character he truly is. I also love some little subtext with Stilgar. Stilgar begins to doubt Paul's godhead and truly believes him human when the Stone Burner removes Paul's eyes. All this gets turned around when Paul proves his prescient sight with his eyeless sight. The political drama is great, I love it! The more conversations, the more I like a Dune book.
Dune Messiah is criminally underrated. I don’t want to spoil anything, but it teaches valuable lessons about power. And the ending is shocking and tragic. I just started God Emperor, and so far Children of Dune is my favorite in the series so you gotta read it.
Planning to start Children of Dune next month, and I'm VERY excited. Like I said, that shocking ending of Messiah really propels you into the next book.
Dune is not a complete novel without Messiah. It would be like finishing a performance of Macbeth after he is crowned, without the descent into madness. It’s missing the entire point of telling this particular story.
Can't believe I went my entire life thinking Dune was a standalone all because my dad made a joke about it when I was a kid. And I was nearly 30 years old when I realized it was a SERIES. I have such an intense need to read this SERIES (thanks, dad) because the special edition cover is.......so beautiful.
At least you know now! lol -- Honestly most people don't realize how insane and expansive the series becomes. I'm just two books in, and already I can tell it'll be a wild ride
3:00 the term "chamber piece" could be in reference to chamber music, which is music composed for a 3-5 piece ensemble of instruments, usually within the same family. For instance, you might have a chamber piece composed for a five-piece brass ensemble consisting of two trumpets, a trombone, a euphonium, and a tuba. Since chamber pieces are shorter and more limited in scale than orchestral pieces, the phrase could mean a project which feels hollow, empty, or unfinished.
I'm on God Emperor and so far I like each book for a different reason: Dune for its masterful plot and wonderful character work. Dune Messiah for its reflective nature and its ability to really get to the heart of the sense of a future stage of humanity that I love more than anything else in the Dune universe. Children of Dune for it's building up of a unique tension which explodes my imagination with somewhat intangible ideas of what is to come in God Emperor of Dune. And God Emperor of Dune for it's insightful dialogue and vivid advancement in worldbuilding (I have to say I am somewhat disappointed with the change of writing style with this one though. The writing style previous to this installment has been one of my favorite things about the series.)
Paul is so fascinating in Dune Messiah. He is extremely qualified for the position of Emperor. If anyone were ever this qualified to be president we would elect them in a heartbeat. Paul is hell bent on securing long lasting peace and he has all the tools to achieve it However, this a lie. Peace cannot be sustained and Paul has over promised. He is in over his head and coupled with the dulling of his visions is in an extremely tight space. A corner he has backed himself into. So during the book, he makes so many bizarre and odd decisions (like that thing with the stone-burner) to guide the present into the future Paul believes the best. The fucking irony is this future is not a good one. It is the lesser of a thousand evils and it mostly revolves around him spending as much time with Chani as possible while simultaneously sparing her from a cruel fate of a long and painful death . All that power, all that intelligence and he makes the human decision. Just an extra day with the love of his life.
Dune Messiah is basically a long epilogue to dune for me. I remember it was a slow start but once it was done i absolutely loved it. definitely underrated
I like Messiah. The only negative I have about it is the fact you get the end of the book right away in the first chapter. The plot against Paul is interesting enough though to keep the reader motivated.
I read the entire Dune saga just before pandemic hit globally. Took me just two months. One of the fastest reads I have had with any book series. I became a fan instantly. For me the Messiah felt like Scourching of Shire from LotR but as its own book.
I just finished Dune Messiah a couple days ago, i thought the end was one of the most powerful parts of what I've read so far in the series. It was strange though, much different than Dune. Children of Dune already feels like more of a return to form (if there even is such a thing in this case). Great video!
Funfact: The original Dune music was written by a band called Toto (my favorite band actually) who made africa and hold the line, but what you might bot know is that their vocal lead Joseph Williams is actually the son of John Williams (my favorite film composer, imagine when I learned the relation) so you can imagine this 70's rockband making music for dune, and the lead calling up John Williams like "hey dad, we are working on this one motif..." and something about that is making me really happy.
The original soundtrack was supposed to fracture Pink Floyd and Magma, which would have been crazy. There's also a great album by french progressive band Eros that Is inspires by the novel, and it's fucking crazy, the proggiest prog album as i like to call it
Hey, loved the review and will sub from now on. I only finished dune messiah and wanted others opinions. Personally im more of a character oriented guy so i liked messiah more than dune but i liked all the points you made, keep it up!
Dune Messiah is a great continuation to the first book and it is what made me realise Dune will never be made into a Hollywood franchise (I’d love so much to be proved wrong one day). Dune Messiah is a heartbreaking and beautiful lesson by Frank Herbert no studios will dare to put onto the screen for the masses. But hey the book is enough for me!
@@sawcatjules5178 Well, I am still on the first book so I don't know how it ends but if they change it, then there is no reason to make the movie as from what I have heard the second book gets into the messy aftermath. If they just want a happy ending(or even a happy story) , i think they should just stick to the first book as from what i have heard, it's a more ideal ending.
I have just set out on reading the Dune series. Some of the things I had read seemed to make out there was no point bothering with anything after the first book - glad to see that's not the case
Am I the only one who think dune should have just been a trilogy with messiah and children of dune conpined into one book and the third book be god emperor
Speaking about the pov stuff one of my favorite scenes for it was the dinner scene in book one, where we simultaneously get the pov of 3 or 4 different people at the table and you can tell who is thinking based on the words they use. For example at one point the book refers to Kynes as the ecologist despite Kynes choosing the description of planetologist, so i knew we were listening to Letos thoughts. I just thought that was a fun puzzle to solve as you read through the book
The 1st chapter of dune messia is so dense, so deep and hard to get all competing interests in place… i found this book incredible and this chapter a masterpiece
Good to get some insight to motivate me to read the Dune copy I got. It's a decent size, little intimidating for someone who doesn't read fiction regularly 😅
Thank you for your review. All art, such as film, music, novels, paintings, whatever, is highly subjective. And this is exactly the way it should be. And while there is no doubt that Quinn is an expert concerning all things Dune, it doesn't mean that I always agree with him. If I were to order the six novels from my favorite to least favorite, I'd first state that I found all the Dune novels solid efforts and interesting in their own way. But for me, the order goes: Dune, Children of Dune, Heretics of Dune, Dune Messiah, God Emperor of Dune, and Chapter House Dune. Now, I really liked God Emperor..., but it was the least accessible for me. Chapter House... was certainly interesting, but left me unsatisfied. Children of Dune and Heretics of Dune could easily switch places on further readings (yeah, I liked Heretics... that much).
Wow, I'm really excited to read Heretics now. I'm curious about God Emperor because it draws in so many mixed reactions. Always interesting to see people's rankings
So I just finished the first Dune novel and I am REALLY excited to get to Messiah. To be fair, the ending of Dune is good enough, making it pretty clear that Paul is starting his downfall, but MAN did I wish there was one more part to the novel and I'm hoping Messiah is that.
It's funny how I've read Dune a couple of times and never once noticed this omniscience everyone is so hyped about in every video I now watch about the book. It's one of my favorite books, I know it by heart, I just never thought that's something unique. Maybe I read too little... also I remember it being hard to read as a kid, but now I don't think so at all.
I started reading Dune this past week and was shocked how simply it was written. Tell you the truth it gave me appreciation of Tolkien and how extraordinary the Fellowship, Two Towers, and Return of the King are written. Amazing use of language it’s astounding, pure genius!
I've read the Dune Trilogy a few years ago, got the black with gold hardcover edition. Somehow in my mind, the 2nd book always left me with dread 'Oh god, here comes the boring part where nothing much happens" kind of feeling. It wasn't based on fact, but I suppose I couldn't appreciate the context of the book. With more wisdom and age, this book has had more profound experience on me than the first book. The ending was just.. exquisite, a man finally free and blessed with ignorance, to be claimed as a Fremen once more.
I really struggled finishing Messiah because I just felt this constant oppressive sense of impending doom that just made it hard to read because I didn't want to know what was going to happen, and that just made psychically reading it exhausting.
I honestly enjoyed messiah more than the first because by the time I got to messiah I already knew most of the stuff about the universe so it make reading easier and more fun.
How you are describing your feelings about Messiah vs DUNE then eager to read CoDune is the reason why the Syfy TV movie series works so well and one of the best attempts at portraying Herbert DUNE novels. It combined the 2 novels into a 3 day 2hrs each set up. It's kind like GoT but on the cheap with not great era cgi. But James McAvoy, Alice Krige, Susan Sarandon and few others acted in it to make it enjoyable well done scriptwise & dialogue. Like HBO GoT the 'childern' were aged up for costs & acting quality per novel subject, but it was done well by the young 20something actors playing late 16-18yo coming of age royals. But READ the books first to atleast God Emperor of DUNE before jumping into the Syfy CoD series. As expected not every single thing from the books is portrayed but much is delivered well enough & key scenes.
I feel like people don't like Dune Messiah because it wasn't just "Dune 2". I personally loved the exploration of what the consequences of victory were, and Dune Messiah was a vital stepping stone for the whole series. It took all the big concepts of Dune and really examined them, prodded them, pushed them to their breaking point and revealed what kind of a universe this was. And whilst Children of Dune was more of a classic adventurer, or closer to Dune, every other book in the series continued that exploration of consequences, and flipped the script.
I'm glad you enjoyed Dune 2. It doesn't really add much in terms of the ideas beyond what Dune 1 laid out, but Paul's determination to find a future in which he and his family are at peace gives him his best moments in the series. Dune 2 also begins the set up for the main character in Dune 4, a story I adore both for how wildly unique it is, and how it contains Frank's opening arguments for the perfect human society, something which he said in interviews he had wanted to fully present in Dune 7. Dune 2 is not the series' low point though, that unmistakenly goes to Dune 5 and 6. By that point, it's clear that Frank has maybe not run out of ideas, but definitely run out of ideas which are best explored in the Dune universe. Frank himself seems to be aware of this - I agree with the interpretation of the ending of Dune 6, that it's a self-insert of Frank looking into the camera and saying 'those characters really got away from me, huh'.
I love Dune but I loved Messiah potentially more? I don’t know. I can’t compare them. But Messiah made me love Dune even more. The story is incredible and is like the necessary piece to see Dune more fully.
I've actually never listened to an audiobook in my life! Lol. I wish I had some to recommend, but I'm actually looking for recommendations myself. I heard that Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrel is an amazing audiobook and I'm hoping to listen to it soon!
@@ManCarryingThing , if Dickens isn't for you, you'll find Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell not that enticing, I fear.. But the story is totally worth it. (I feel you on the audiobooks, my brain doesn't retain any information that way, I need to Read the sentences myself, if that makes sense) Something tells me you'll love God Emperor.
Ofcourse it is, aside from beeing shorter its just as good as the first one. If you take into account the first book was supposed to be 3 books, and compare book 2 to any of the 3 parts from the first one, Messiah has just as much, if not more going for it. Then again the whole saga is criminally underated, even the first book is not on the radar of a lot of people, considering how much influence and how good it is.
I think I could have stopped at God Emperor. Heretics was a slog. I’m in the middle of Chapterhouse, and it’s even more of a struggle. I don’t care about the Honored Matres and their killer Femmebots!
Messiah feeling very much like part 1 of the last two novels makes it so odd that Villeneuve is planning to end his trilogy with an adaptation of Messiah. I'm really interested to see what changes he'll make for that film to feel like an ending.
I finished reading Dune Messiah last week, and i'm still thinking about it, unfeel like this ibe us gonna stat with me for a while, it was so tragic and thought provoking. And i genuinly gasped at least a couple of times while reading it. I wonder How they aré gonna approach the adaptatión because It feels less épic in scope.
I read all 3 after seeing the new movie, however I had no idea/understanding about opinions of the 'Dune Fandom Community' and what is praised and unliked people generally, or even what the books were really about other than after the first 3 novels, the rest you can take or leave. In my naiveté I read them in a vacuum and very much enjoyed 'Messiah'. It was a nice change in many ways from book 1, with none of the slow bits that 'Dune' may have. In my ignorant opinion I feel like maybe 'Messiah' and 'Children...' could be one book together, leaving 'Dune' on its own. I am just now starting a second read of the trilogy and will pay more attention this time through.
I finally listened to Dune and Dune Messiah this year. Audible has some really good versions (not a sponsor). I liked Dune Messiah, albeit seems to take place in a time in Paul’s life that Timmy Chalamet does not seem like he could look old enough to ever play. Timmy’s got to much of a baby face to play and weathered Paul I think. In Dune Messiah it does feel like Paul is in his 40s, and, well, Paul’s like a teenager in Dune. I thought the end of Dune Messiah was poignant, sweet, and albeit tragic, Paul goes out on his own terms and that was beautiful.
IT IS UNDERRATED! Absolutely. I read the first two books completely blind (I had to read the first Dune twice because my mind was so blown up) and I can honestly say they completely fit as a unified narrative. Almost to the point that I feel Dune and Dune Messiah should be one book.
i've only read up to like half of children of dune but dune messiah is my favorite so far. i liked it way more than the first book and i liked the first book a lot. i think people just don't like reading
I just read dune messiah, starting children of Dune. That 2 second opening... If this is the worst the series gets, holy fucking shit. At first I didn't like Dune messiah, but I rode with it. Even took a 2 week break because I just didn't like the tonal shift. But I gave it the benefit of the doubt. Before I finished messiah I said "I think everyone should read dune, and you can leave it there, if you really like it keep going and see from there." My tune has changed completely. You HAVE to read dune messiah. It so perfectly complements and completes dune. It's a great jumping off point for the average person. I did wonder "why didnt he just make dune that but longer and have this as the 4th book of the first Dune." But I think you really do get something more from the fact that you have to (except for some special combined editions) hold another book. A different cover. A separate entity. It makes the differences stand out more. I won't go I to more detail because to explain my point I'd have to spoil it, but seriously if somehow your in the comment section of a video about a book you haven't read, I'm telling you, read it
LMFAO at the Quinn’s ideas shoutout, i absolutely agree. Love that guy so much. Also, have a lot of knowledge of Dune due to him but still haven’t read them lol, i want to very much though. Great video.
I seem to be the only one who loves Messiah, moderately enjoyed Children of Dune, and somewhat disliked God Emperor. Perhaps I need a reread, but the pinnacle of the matter to me is that I deeply sympathized with Paul much more than I ever did with Leto, and I think that Messiah gives by the far the most fitting and final ending out of any of the books. It concludes the main character’s story in a manner that is perfectly, poetically tragic. In contrast, Leto never felt like a character so much as a concept to me. It’s explicitly stated that he isn’t really one person, but a collective of memories ruled mostly by the persona of a single past dictator. It’s a fascinating idea that makes for a character with little personality. Yes, he’s becoming a worm. Yes, he’s losing his humanity and trying to hold on to what little bits he can. Yes, he’s doing a terrible thing but he believes it’s for the greater good of humanity and he has for the last 3,000 years. It doesn’t help that the entirety of God Emperor is him yammering about philosophy. It’s not that I don’t like that kind of thing, again, but it started to wear on me way more than in the other books. By the time of God Emperor, the universe feels extremely dull and lifeless (and I get that that’s kind of the point). Gone is the rich dynamic of many great houses and political players from the first book. It’s just Leto rambling to whoever will listen. He’s a bored god, and it makes for a somewhat boring book. I think Leto is a much better character from external view, and Paul much better from an internal one. Paul doesn’t fully understand what he’s doing in Dune, and he is desperately trying to make the right choices for himself and the world. Everything is poised on a knife’s edge that makes the book and his reflections terrifically interesting, and then Messiah flips this on its head and shows us the prison he put himself in through his choices, and the deep regret and sorrow over it. Leto is more interesting when other characters are viewing him, because he is a powerful, deadly unknown to them. It’s like in a horror movie, when the director builds creeping horror and tension by NOT SHOWING EVERYTHING. Letting the audience wonder makes the concept of a human being, horrifically mutated, psychologically haunted and twisted, split between multiple personalities and past selves, so much more interesting by implication and imagination than when we see what he’s thinking directly.
If it is that's fucking amazing cause I loved Dune messiah, It was so much more focused and felt like such a tragedy and there was such a bitterniss to it's ending that I loved it was very powerful
What bummed me out about Messiah (spoilers), was the time skip. Many interesting things happened between Dune and Dune Messiah, and I think it was a mistake to just "tell" them rather than show them
The plot of the first book is honestly really basic. I just finished Messiah recently and everyone who doesn’t continue after the first is making s mistake.
I think Dune Messiah is so sobre and sad and such a collapse of the readers heroic opinion of Paul. That people actually forget how good it was to read.
I hear people saying Denis's 3rd Dune movie (if he makes it) will likely disappoint since it has the weakest source material. Seeing so many people here in the comments appreciate the book really does give me hope.
It's been about a decade since I read the entire series, and Dune Messiah and Children of Dune just blend together for me. Heretics of Dune and Chapterhouse also blend together for me.
sir, all i have to say is: there's no one like you. i can't wait for the nights with you. i imagine the things we do. i just want to be loved.... by you.
I think it's important to take note of the fact that Dune Messiah was originally supposed to be part of the first book! Hence why it felt like a "stepping stone" or a piece of something else.
I did not know that.
Dont know if anyone gives a damn but if you are stoned like me during the covid times then you can watch pretty much all the latest series on Instaflixxer. Have been binge watching with my gf these days =)
@Josue Trey yup, been using instaflixxer for years myself =)
I've always viewed it as the real epilogue to Dune, as opposed to a stepping stone. I find without it the implications of Dune's ending is difficult to pick out
@William Hancock It would have been too long so the publisher made Frank cut it into 2 books
Dune feels like your teenage years where you're capable of anything and defiant to the world, while Messiah feels like your adult years of getting kicked in the head at every turn and overburdened by an inescapable path in life.
The sequel is much more character-driven than the action-driven original, and I think that bores people. Personally, Paul's journey of frustration, turmoil, resentment, and eventually, a tragic sense of peace resonated strongly with me.
It makes me sad that people see Dune Messiah as a filler-type book, from Dune to Children of Dune. I always loved the Dune chronicles, but-as I have been making my way through re-reading the chronicles-I found Dune Messiah incredibly thought provoking and impactful in its explorations of choice, fate, and sacrifice. Give Dune Messiah the credit it deserves, dammit!
Messiah has some amazing moments and builds off of the first dune so perfectly (AND subverts the original themes) No idea why people rate it so low, either!
It’s probably the disconnect. The books starts up after the jihad. You don’t get anything but former vets describing the events. That’s the biggest problem. It picks up YEARS later. The fremen sterilized like 90 systems. They mention everything that happened, but you don’t really get a sense of it. My favorite parts were the former fremen death commandos and jihadis describing their own views on things. You have returning conquerors now living in luxury. So that was cool. Otherwise most of messiah is the skin changer and Irulan complaining about Paul not Impregnating her. Also Paul’s sister (idk how to spell her name) is….something…the incest parts and the parts where she falls in love with a clone of a man who was good friends with her brother was…strange. But I guess the orgy stuff doesn’t really get brought up in the movies. That’s kind of a book only feature.
Honestly I’d say it’s the worst because it’s boring. Skipped over all the cool stuff for Paul being annoyed, his wife being annoyed, his concubine/love of his life is an amazing woman. They seem to truly be in love, but that’s also much less boring than galactic genocide.
And 50% of the book was about how Paul really doesn’t wanna make a child with Irulan. I get why, but I also would like more about Paul being emperor and less about how he loved his qt trad concubine more than the Royal Princess
Dune Messiah has the best plot of any book ever written. The conspirators create a weapon that Paul cannot resist, he is given a choice he cannot make, and his victory is one he does not want.
Damn, now I'm even more excited to read it when the time comes!
Messiah is my favorite book in the series. It's very personal and deals with the concept of inhuman apotheosis and trappings of power with such fierce human emotion. It's very tragic, but at the same time it feels like Herbert is asking the reader "Well, what the hell were you expecting? Did you not read Dune? Did you not see the warning signs?".
The prose in Dune Messiah is fucking gorgeous no idea how anyone could think otherwise. I legit fucking wept at the ending because of how much the description of Paul's final words rocked me. Dune feels like it was written using the Voice, it uses beautiful words efficiently to affect the most change in the reader. My favorite passage from the second to last chapter:
Paul turned away. Ugly, barren land! He imagined it sun-soaked and
monstrous with heat, a place of sandslides and the drowned darkness of dust
pools, blowdevils unreeling tiny dunes across the rocks, their narrow bellies
full of ochre crystals. But it was a rich land, too: big, exploding out of
narrow places with vistas of storm-trodden emptiness, rampart cliffs and
tumbledown ridges.
All it required was water . . . and love.
Life changed those irascible wastes into shapes of grace and movement, he
thought. That was the message of the desert. Contrast stunned him with
realization. He wanted to turn to the aides massed in the sietch entrance,
shout at them: If you need something to worship, then worship life -- all
life, every last crawling bit of it! We're all in this beauty together!
They wouldn't understand. In the desert, they were endlessly desert.
Growing things performed no green ballet for them.
He clenched his fists at his sides, trying to halt the vision. He wanted to flee
from his own mind. It was a beast come to devour him! Awareness lay in
him, sodden, heavy with all the living it had sponged up, saturated with too
many experiences.
Desperately, Paul squeezed his thoughts outward.
Stars!
Awareness turned over at the thought of all those stars above him -- an
infinite volume. A man must be half mad to imagine he could rule even a
teardrop of that volume. He couldn't begin to imagine the number of
subjects his Imperium claimed.
Subjects? Worshippers and enemies, more likely. Did any among them see
beyond rigid beliefs? Where was one man who'd escaped the narrow
destiny of his prejudices? Not even an Emperor escaped. He'd lived a 'take
everything' life, tried to create a universe in his own image. But the exultant
universe was breaking across him at last with its silent waves.
I spit on Dune! he thought. I give it my moisture!
I’ve always thought it was underrated. It’s my second favorite in the series. I read it in one sitting the first time.
Yeah, it's such a fast read -- that's what I love about it. Curious to see what I think of it after I get through the series
@@ManCarryingThing The farthest I ever got was God Emperor of Dune. That one was definitely my favorite. I still need to read the last two.
One sitting? What am I doing with my life?
@@chugg159 To be fair I was on cocaine at the time and even when I'm not I have audiobooks play at least 2× speed to keep up. Just a fast reader I suppose. I read Stephen King's The Stand 3 times in 2020. Dune: Messiah also it caters to some of my favorite tropes in a book/film. I love the fall of a hero and reduced location settings. The fewer sets the happier I am. Things like The Hateful Eight, One Night in Miami, Reservoir Dogs and Wait Until Dark. Probably the only installment in the Dune series that could be a stageplay.
@@thecinephiliac4034 I never looked at Messiah from the perspective of a stageplay. I'll have to look at it like that more, though Irulan and Mohaim's finger-talk would be a challenge for any screenwriter. I'm in the middle of Messiah right now, and some of the settings don't really fit. Frank often describes bright golds, blues, and reds in basically every setting up to the point I'm at. You would think that Arrakeen only 12-13 years later wouldn't look much different. Perhaps I've always visualized Dune incorrectly, but I never remembered much psychedelia in the first book beyond what was absolutely necessary for the plot.
i had just read this two days ago and thought to see what people thought about it. i was shocked by how disregarded the book generally is. i hadn't started children of dune yet so my opinion might change, but right now dune messiah took the favourite spot. as grand and eventful as dune was, dune messiah was exactly my kind of book lol i cried my eyes out at the end
I was shocked how disregarded it was, too! I felt more emotions in Messiah than in the original -- and it is so unique in throwing the Dune premise on its head. Thanks for watching!
I cried my eyes out too I was so sad
I am surprised to hear a lot of people disregard the book. I will say it's not as good as the first but it has a lot of great moments and made Alia my favorite character in the series.
i love how Dune messiah is short and sweet. it really nails the points home and gets the reader to really examine themselves and these characters. Are the people we are rooting for really the "good" guys?
It really says something about the Dune books that a book like Dune Messiah is called "short and sweet"
Messiah might be my favorite in the series. I love how concise and well-written it is. The first conversation on Wallach IX between Mohiam, Irulan, Edric, and Scytale is one of my favorites. There's so much inner turmoil in that group. I also love the creation of Paul as the bad character he truly is.
I also love some little subtext with Stilgar. Stilgar begins to doubt Paul's godhead and truly believes him human when the Stone Burner removes Paul's eyes. All this gets turned around when Paul proves his prescient sight with his eyeless sight.
The political drama is great, I love it! The more conversations, the more I like a Dune book.
Dune Messiah is criminally underrated. I don’t want to spoil anything, but it teaches valuable lessons about power. And the ending is shocking and tragic. I just started God Emperor, and so far Children of Dune is my favorite in the series so you gotta read it.
Planning to start Children of Dune next month, and I'm VERY excited. Like I said, that shocking ending of Messiah really propels you into the next book.
Just finished Dune Messiah. Not at all what I expected. Great book, but Honestly left me feeling a bit depressed.
Dune is not a complete novel without Messiah. It would be like finishing a performance of Macbeth after he is crowned, without the descent into madness. It’s missing the entire point of telling this particular story.
I am not done with Chapterhouse yet, but I can already say with confidence that Messiah is by far my favorite book in the series.
I’m early into chapterhouse and I also agree! Messiah is my fav so far, and surprisingly Heretics is my second fav
My favorite is probably Dune but I’m really loving Children of Dune right now!
Can't believe I went my entire life thinking Dune was a standalone all because my dad made a joke about it when I was a kid. And I was nearly 30 years old when I realized it was a SERIES. I have such an intense need to read this SERIES (thanks, dad) because the special edition cover is.......so beautiful.
At least you know now! lol -- Honestly most people don't realize how insane and expansive the series becomes. I'm just two books in, and already I can tell it'll be a wild ride
Yeah I didn't know either 😅
3:00 the term "chamber piece" could be in reference to chamber music, which is music composed for a 3-5 piece ensemble of instruments, usually within the same family. For instance, you might have a chamber piece composed for a five-piece brass ensemble consisting of two trumpets, a trombone, a euphonium, and a tuba. Since chamber pieces are shorter and more limited in scale than orchestral pieces, the phrase could mean a project which feels hollow, empty, or unfinished.
I'm on God Emperor and so far I like each book for a different reason:
Dune for its masterful plot and wonderful character work.
Dune Messiah for its reflective nature and its ability to really get to the heart of the sense of a future stage of humanity that I love more than anything else in the Dune universe.
Children of Dune for it's building up of a unique tension which explodes my imagination with somewhat intangible ideas of what is to come in God Emperor of Dune.
And God Emperor of Dune for it's insightful dialogue and vivid advancement in worldbuilding (I have to say I am somewhat disappointed with the change of writing style with this one though. The writing style previous to this installment has been one of my favorite things about the series.)
Paul is so fascinating in Dune Messiah. He is extremely qualified for the position of Emperor. If anyone were ever this qualified to be president we would elect them in a heartbeat. Paul is hell bent on securing long lasting peace and he has all the tools to achieve it
However, this a lie. Peace cannot be sustained and Paul has over promised. He is in over his head and coupled with the dulling of his visions is in an extremely tight space. A corner he has backed himself into.
So during the book, he makes so many bizarre and odd decisions (like that thing with the stone-burner) to guide the present into the future Paul believes the best. The fucking irony is this future is not a good one. It is the lesser of a thousand evils and it mostly revolves around him spending as much time with Chani as possible while simultaneously sparing her from a cruel fate of a long and painful death . All that power, all that intelligence and he makes the human decision. Just an extra day with the love of his life.
Dune Messiah is basically a long epilogue to dune for me. I remember it was a slow start but once it was done i absolutely loved it. definitely underrated
I don't see it as an epilogue I see it as the third act of the story.
I like Messiah. The only negative I have about it is the fact you get the end of the book right away in the first chapter.
The plot against Paul is interesting enough though to keep the reader motivated.
One thing I like about Dune Messiah is how much it takes Paul to task for the despicable things that he did in book one.
"I heard there was a thing called a sea" has probably stuck with me more than any other line from the series.
I read the entire Dune saga just before pandemic hit globally. Took me just two months. One of the fastest reads I have had with any book series. I became a fan instantly. For me the Messiah felt like Scourching of Shire from LotR but as its own book.
I just finished It the whole book felt like Frank wanted to explain how to checkmate a oracle lol
I just finished Dune Messiah a couple days ago, i thought the end was one of the most powerful parts of what I've read so far in the series. It was strange though, much different than Dune. Children of Dune already feels like more of a return to form (if there even is such a thing in this case). Great video!
Funfact: The original Dune music was written by a band called Toto (my favorite band actually) who made africa and hold the line, but what you might bot know is that their vocal lead Joseph Williams is actually the son of John Williams (my favorite film composer, imagine when I learned the relation) so you can imagine this 70's rockband making music for dune, and the lead calling up John Williams like "hey dad, we are working on this one motif..." and something about that is making me really happy.
Apparently Joseph Williams didn’t join Toto until 1986, but that is a fun fact nonetheless.
The original soundtrack was supposed to fracture Pink Floyd and Magma, which would have been crazy. There's also a great album by french progressive band Eros that Is inspires by the novel, and it's fucking crazy, the proggiest prog album as i like to call it
Hey, loved the review and will sub from now on. I only finished dune messiah and wanted others opinions. Personally im more of a character oriented guy so i liked messiah more than dune but i liked all the points you made, keep it up!
Thanks!
Dune Messiah is a great continuation to the first book and it is what made me realise Dune will never be made into a Hollywood franchise (I’d love so much to be proved wrong one day). Dune Messiah is a heartbreaking and beautiful lesson by Frank Herbert no studios will dare to put onto the screen for the masses. But hey the book is enough for me!
Well, they are planning to make a dune messiah as the third movie if the first two are popular enough.
@@jwinget1999 That's great but I'd be surprised if they would stick to the tragic ending.
@@sawcatjules5178 Well, I am still on the first book so I don't know how it ends but if they change it, then there is no reason to make the movie as from what I have heard the second book gets into the messy aftermath. If they just want a happy ending(or even a happy story) , i think they should just stick to the first book as from what i have heard, it's a more ideal ending.
I have just set out on reading the Dune series. Some of the things I had read seemed to make out there was no point bothering with anything after the first book - glad to see that's not the case
There's definitely greatness beyond the original. Quinn's Ideas does a great overview
Am I the only one who think dune should have just been a trilogy with messiah and children of dune conpined into one book and the third book be god emperor
The si-fi mini series did that. They just didn’t get to god emperor dune. Honestly made sense
Honestly, it's my favorite of the books, true it serves more as a bridge between Dune and Children, but it's a great bridge imo
Speaking about the pov stuff one of my favorite scenes for it was the dinner scene in book one, where we simultaneously get the pov of 3 or 4 different people at the table and you can tell who is thinking based on the words they use. For example at one point the book refers to Kynes as the ecologist despite Kynes choosing the description of planetologist, so i knew we were listening to Letos thoughts. I just thought that was a fun puzzle to solve as you read through the book
Yes! That part of the book is amazing! I wonder if Denis shot that and it’s a deleted scene somewhere hidden
The 1st chapter of dune messia is so dense, so deep and hard to get all competing interests in place… i found this book incredible and this chapter a masterpiece
Awesome review I actually just picked up this an audiobook. I am going to work my way through the series again before 2021 👍
Thanks so much! Glad you're carrying on with the series -- it's totally worth it.
I just finished dune I really enjoyed it I will be reading this book once it becomes available at the library 🥳🙂😊
Good to get some insight to motivate me to read the Dune copy I got. It's a decent size, little intimidating for someone who doesn't read fiction regularly 😅
It's definitely worth the effort -- especially if your interested in science and sustainable living
Thank you for your review.
All art, such as film, music, novels, paintings, whatever, is highly subjective. And this is exactly the way it should be. And while there is no doubt that Quinn is an expert concerning all things Dune, it doesn't mean that I always agree with him. If I were to order the six novels from my favorite to least favorite, I'd first state that I found all the Dune novels solid efforts and interesting in their own way. But for me, the order goes: Dune, Children of Dune, Heretics of Dune, Dune Messiah, God Emperor of Dune, and Chapter House Dune. Now, I really liked God Emperor..., but it was the least accessible for me. Chapter House... was certainly interesting, but left me unsatisfied. Children of Dune and Heretics of Dune could easily switch places on further readings (yeah, I liked Heretics... that much).
Wow, I'm really excited to read Heretics now. I'm curious about God Emperor because it draws in so many mixed reactions. Always interesting to see people's rankings
@@ManCarryingThing I look forward to your thoughts on the novels as you read them!!
So I just finished the first Dune novel and I am REALLY excited to get to Messiah. To be fair, the ending of Dune is good enough, making it pretty clear that Paul is starting his downfall, but MAN did I wish there was one more part to the novel and I'm hoping Messiah is that.
It's funny how I've read Dune a couple of times and never once noticed this omniscience everyone is so hyped about in every video I now watch about the book. It's one of my favorite books, I know it by heart, I just never thought that's something unique. Maybe I read too little... also I remember it being hard to read as a kid, but now I don't think so at all.
I started reading Dune this past week and was shocked how simply it was written.
Tell you the truth it gave me appreciation of Tolkien and how extraordinary the Fellowship, Two Towers, and Return of the King are written.
Amazing use of language it’s astounding, pure genius!
Dune and Dune Messiah are very reliant on each other. You cannot fully understand one without the other and they flow together as one story.
I definitely think that this book was underrated! Great analysis!!!
Thank you!!
I've read the Dune Trilogy a few years ago, got the black with gold hardcover edition. Somehow in my mind, the 2nd book always left me with dread 'Oh god, here comes the boring part where nothing much happens" kind of feeling. It wasn't based on fact, but I suppose I couldn't appreciate the context of the book. With more wisdom and age, this book has had more profound experience on me than the first book. The ending was just.. exquisite, a man finally free and blessed with ignorance, to be claimed as a Fremen once more.
I really struggled finishing Messiah because I just felt this constant oppressive sense of impending doom that just made it hard to read because I didn't want to know what was going to happen, and that just made psychically reading it exhausting.
Well said.. I enjoyed dune messiah and about to read the children of dune.
I honestly enjoyed messiah more than the first because by the time I got to messiah I already knew most of the stuff about the universe so it make reading easier and more fun.
How you are describing your feelings about Messiah vs DUNE then eager to read CoDune is the reason why the Syfy TV movie series works so well and one of the best attempts at portraying Herbert DUNE novels. It combined the 2 novels into a 3 day 2hrs each set up. It's kind like GoT but on the cheap with not great era cgi. But James McAvoy, Alice Krige, Susan Sarandon and few others acted in it to make it enjoyable well done scriptwise & dialogue. Like HBO GoT the 'childern' were aged up for costs & acting quality per novel subject, but it was done well by the young 20something actors playing late 16-18yo coming of age royals. But READ the books first to atleast God Emperor of DUNE before jumping into the Syfy CoD series. As expected not every single thing from the books is portrayed but much is delivered well enough & key scenes.
I think Messiah is really enjoyable to read, but when you actually think about it you realize how little actually happens in it.
I feel like people don't like Dune Messiah because it wasn't just "Dune 2". I personally loved the exploration of what the consequences of victory were, and Dune Messiah was a vital stepping stone for the whole series. It took all the big concepts of Dune and really examined them, prodded them, pushed them to their breaking point and revealed what kind of a universe this was. And whilst Children of Dune was more of a classic adventurer, or closer to Dune, every other book in the series continued that exploration of consequences, and flipped the script.
I see Dune Messiah as a sort of extended epilogue for Dune.
Good way to sum the book up.
@@michaelbuehler3897 thanks.
I'm glad you enjoyed Dune 2. It doesn't really add much in terms of the ideas beyond what Dune 1 laid out, but Paul's determination to find a future in which he and his family are at peace gives him his best moments in the series. Dune 2 also begins the set up for the main character in Dune 4, a story I adore both for how wildly unique it is, and how it contains Frank's opening arguments for the perfect human society, something which he said in interviews he had wanted to fully present in Dune 7.
Dune 2 is not the series' low point though, that unmistakenly goes to Dune 5 and 6. By that point, it's clear that Frank has maybe not run out of ideas, but definitely run out of ideas which are best explored in the Dune universe. Frank himself seems to be aware of this - I agree with the interpretation of the ending of Dune 6, that it's a self-insert of Frank looking into the camera and saying 'those characters really got away from me, huh'.
I love Dune but I loved Messiah potentially more? I don’t know. I can’t compare them. But Messiah made me love Dune even more. The story is incredible and is like the necessary piece to see Dune more fully.
Do you Listen to audiobooks? Would love a recommendation
I've actually never listened to an audiobook in my life! Lol. I wish I had some to recommend, but I'm actually looking for recommendations myself. I heard that Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrel is an amazing audiobook and I'm hoping to listen to it soon!
@@ManCarryingThing , if Dickens isn't for you, you'll find Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell not that enticing, I fear..
But the story is totally worth it.
(I feel you on the audiobooks, my brain doesn't retain any information that way, I need to Read the sentences myself, if that makes sense)
Something tells me you'll love God Emperor.
chapter 20 alone makes it one of my favorite books
4:25 MJ's Ghost possessing MCT for a moment there
Ofcourse it is, aside from beeing shorter its just as good as the first one. If you take into account the first book was supposed to be 3 books, and compare book 2 to any of the 3 parts from the first one, Messiah has just as much, if not more going for it.
Then again the whole saga is criminally underated, even the first book is not on the radar of a lot of people, considering how much influence and how good it is.
I think I could have stopped at God Emperor. Heretics was a slog. I’m in the middle of Chapterhouse, and it’s even more of a struggle. I don’t care about the Honored Matres and their killer Femmebots!
Heretics has it's moments. Chapterhouse is the worst of the series, in my opinion.
Excellent overview
Thanks!
Messiah feeling very much like part 1 of the last two novels makes it so odd that Villeneuve is planning to end his trilogy with an adaptation of Messiah. I'm really interested to see what changes he'll make for that film to feel like an ending.
I finished reading Dune Messiah last week, and i'm still thinking about it, unfeel like this ibe us gonna stat with me for a while, it was so tragic and thought provoking.
And i genuinly gasped at least a couple of times while reading it.
I wonder How they aré gonna approach the adaptatión because It feels less épic in scope.
I read all 3 after seeing the new movie, however I had no idea/understanding about opinions of the 'Dune Fandom Community' and what is praised and unliked people generally, or even what the books were really about other than after the first 3 novels, the rest you can take or leave. In my naiveté I read them in a vacuum and very much enjoyed 'Messiah'. It was a nice change in many ways from book 1, with none of the slow bits that 'Dune' may have. In my ignorant opinion I feel like maybe 'Messiah' and 'Children...' could be one book together, leaving 'Dune' on its own.
I am just now starting a second read of the trilogy and will pay more attention this time through.
I finally listened to Dune and Dune Messiah this year. Audible has some really good versions (not a sponsor). I liked Dune Messiah, albeit seems to take place in a time in Paul’s life that Timmy Chalamet does not seem like he could look old enough to ever play. Timmy’s got to much of a baby face to play and weathered Paul I think. In Dune Messiah it does feel like Paul is in his 40s, and, well, Paul’s like a teenager in Dune.
I thought the end of Dune Messiah was poignant, sweet, and albeit tragic, Paul goes out on his own terms and that was beautiful.
IT IS UNDERRATED! Absolutely. I read the first two books completely blind (I had to read the first Dune twice because my mind was so blown up) and I can honestly say they completely fit as a unified narrative. Almost to the point that I feel Dune and Dune Messiah should be one book.
Absolutely, you don't get a complete picture of Dune without Messiah
I read Dune too in middle school too!
_No bitter stench of funeral-still for Muad'dib._ Yeah, loved this book.
i've only read up to like half of children of dune but dune messiah is my favorite so far. i liked it way more than the first book and i liked the first book a lot. i think people just don't like reading
You know.... I really haven't considered reading further than this in the Dune series, but now I might have to binge the whole GD thing 😂
This is, however, the book where Farok the three-armed legend appears.
I have to agree I read most of the first dune book then drop it. I reread it and I find dune messiah is better. I didn't read the other dune it.
Dune messiah Ending really made me depressed , poor paul ☹️
Dune Messiah is my favorite book. But I still need to read 5 and 6.
"Goodbye, my Sihaya," he whispered ...
Have you read Children of Dune?
Funny that you say it feels like the first half of a book while i look at it as the final 4th of the original Dune.
I just read dune messiah, starting children of Dune. That 2 second opening...
If this is the worst the series gets, holy fucking shit. At first I didn't like Dune messiah, but I rode with it. Even took a 2 week break because I just didn't like the tonal shift. But I gave it the benefit of the doubt.
Before I finished messiah I said "I think everyone should read dune, and you can leave it there, if you really like it keep going and see from there."
My tune has changed completely. You HAVE to read dune messiah. It so perfectly complements and completes dune. It's a great jumping off point for the average person.
I did wonder "why didnt he just make dune that but longer and have this as the 4th book of the first Dune."
But I think you really do get something more from the fact that you have to (except for some special combined editions) hold another book. A different cover. A separate entity. It makes the differences stand out more. I won't go I to more detail because to explain my point I'd have to spoil it, but seriously if somehow your in the comment section of a video about a book you haven't read, I'm telling you, read it
LMFAO at the Quinn’s ideas shoutout, i absolutely agree. Love that guy so much. Also, have a lot of knowledge of Dune due to him but still haven’t read them lol, i want to very much though. Great video.
read up to 4 now lol, love them so much
I seem to be the only one who loves Messiah, moderately enjoyed Children of Dune, and somewhat disliked God Emperor. Perhaps I need a reread, but the pinnacle of the matter to me is that I deeply sympathized with Paul much more than I ever did with Leto, and I think that Messiah gives by the far the most fitting and final ending out of any of the books. It concludes the main character’s story in a manner that is perfectly, poetically tragic.
In contrast, Leto never felt like a character so much as a concept to me. It’s explicitly stated that he isn’t really one person, but a collective of memories ruled mostly by the persona of a single past dictator. It’s a fascinating idea that makes for a character with little personality. Yes, he’s becoming a worm. Yes, he’s losing his humanity and trying to hold on to what little bits he can. Yes, he’s doing a terrible thing but he believes it’s for the greater good of humanity and he has for the last 3,000 years. It doesn’t help that the entirety of God Emperor is him yammering about philosophy. It’s not that I don’t like that kind of thing, again, but it started to wear on me way more than in the other books.
By the time of God Emperor, the universe feels extremely dull and lifeless (and I get that that’s kind of the point). Gone is the rich dynamic of many great houses and political players from the first book. It’s just Leto rambling to whoever will listen. He’s a bored god, and it makes for a somewhat boring book.
I think Leto is a much better character from external view, and Paul much better from an internal one. Paul doesn’t fully understand what he’s doing in Dune, and he is desperately trying to make the right choices for himself and the world. Everything is poised on a knife’s edge that makes the book and his reflections terrifically interesting, and then Messiah flips this on its head and shows us the prison he put himself in through his choices, and the deep regret and sorrow over it.
Leto is more interesting when other characters are viewing him, because he is a powerful, deadly unknown to them. It’s like in a horror movie, when the director builds creeping horror and tension by NOT SHOWING EVERYTHING. Letting the audience wonder makes the concept of a human being, horrifically mutated, psychologically haunted and twisted, split between multiple personalities and past selves, so much more interesting by implication and imagination than when we see what he’s thinking directly.
Is dune messiah easier to read then the original dune?
I think it is, theres less slow worldbuilding segments
Preach
Dude Sora Dune is going to be fucking insane.
holy shit are we some how the same person. I also started reading dune because of dune 2020 trailer coming out and i am in 8th grade going into 9th
so, did you end up reading god emperor?
Messiah is my favorite. Highly underrated
If it is that's fucking amazing cause I loved Dune messiah, It was so much more focused and felt like such a tragedy and there was such a bitterniss to it's ending that I loved it was very powerful
What bummed me out about Messiah (spoilers), was the time skip. Many interesting things happened between Dune and Dune Messiah, and I think it was a mistake to just "tell" them rather than show them
LOVE'd Dune Messiah... a Great Read. :)
Messiah's my favorite
I think it is really great because it mixture between DUNE and children of dune
Great book.
Why is Dune a series where most people(myself included) have only read the first book and that's it? Especially since the first book is so good
The plot of the first book is honestly really basic. I just finished Messiah recently and everyone who doesn’t continue after the first is making s mistake.
It’s so weird to me that Dune Messiah is rated so low it’s my favorite of the six
I think Dune Messiah is so sobre and sad and such a collapse of the readers heroic opinion of Paul. That people actually forget how good it was to read.
dune my best
I hear people saying Denis's 3rd Dune movie (if he makes it) will likely disappoint since it has the weakest source material. Seeing so many people here in the comments appreciate the book really does give me hope.
I was blown away that this book is considered the low point as well. So much destruction in this book, mentally and physically.
It's been about a decade since I read the entire series, and Dune Messiah and Children of Dune just blend together for me. Heretics of Dune and Chapterhouse also blend together for me.
"So I want to talk about how Dune Messiah is underrated"
*goes on to compare it to the star wars prequels*
@@maxotto9877 Only if it's underated of how shitty it is
@@maxotto9877 I'd agree personally, but it's still a bad look unless he wanted to take that battle as well, given it's abysmal reputation.
sir, all i have to say is:
there's no one like you. i can't wait for the nights with you. i imagine the things we do.
i just want to be loved.... by you.
Man the carry thing 👍
Dune, dune Messiah and children of dune are the best books I have ever read