In this video I bore a 1971 Suzuki TS185 to 1.5mm or .060. I do this using the Jet Milling machine (bridgeport mill). The piston is a forged Wiseco piston set.
Hello Dale this is in response to the Bridgeport being Ridgid enough to bore with don't know where this viewer got that information from I'm a 65 still working Machinist /Fabricator 48 years in the trade over the years I have bored out all kinds of die plates machinery parts you name it and never had an issue with the machine boring anything I guess you're always going to have someone criticize or overthink what you're doing now from cutting oil to the carbide you use but at the end of the day you do what's been working for you and apparently it has love your channel it's right up my alley
Thank you for your thoughts, mine are the same, however there are always those that criticize.... I'm sure the guy has never done any boring, but he is an expert. Sure, appreciate your input, and wow, all those years as a machinist, bet you're not learning any tips from me. Thanks for spending time with me in the shop.
Lathe, mill, boring bar. Have all 3. Boring bar is a quicker set up, but minimum cylinder diameter is 2.25”, so most of my cylinders are done on the mill. Smaller bore’s on the lathe. For 400 cc Husqvarna cylinders I do on the boring bar. All work well. Boring bar is faster set up, but that’s the only advantage. Keep doing what you are doing. Thanks for all good quality videos. 👍. My guess is that most folks that would comment on boring have never bored a cylinder!
Thanks JP, I have looked for the smaller Kwik way bar for a while, but they are just so expensive, or incomplete. Almost bought a new Van Norman, but the price was half that of the new Jet mill I got. Just could not justify for a one trick pony. I watched my dad years ago bore car cylinders with an old Van Norman bar, it was just amazing to watch. I have watched others set them up and they look a lot quicker than set up in the mill, and a whole lot easier than the lathe. I am sure your right about the comments. I just wanted to put it out there to see what the machinists thought. I have never had any trouble keeping tolerances with the mill or lathe. Many thanks.
They are not giving boring bars away. I think your investment in the knee mill was well-spent. Your craftsmanship and attention to detail guarantee a good bore. We only have so much room in the shop. When I was shopping for a lathe I was told not to consider the imports as they were junk, "find a high quality lightly used one instead". Good luck with that. I bought a cheap one the size that would do the job and can not complain about accuracy or durability.
You are right John, I have tried for years to find a complete Kwik way boring bar, the small engine model. They are terrible expensive or incomplete. I started to buy a new Van Norman small engine model, but the price was half the price of the new Jet, and it is a one trick pony. So, I settled on the Jet, Bridgeport clone. I have heard all the same stuff about the imports, I have no regrets on either the mill or the lathe at this point. I guess one regret....I want to by USA manufactured, but I just can't justify the cost for what I am doing.
80 000 miles! Must be a world record for a TS185. The ER version in white only was still being sold new in Japan until 2021, maybe still available. I always enjoyed the stuttering idle sound of a TS185 and the all-or-nothing power band after riding one myself for many years.
Great job Dale!!! Nothing is boring - this is work, slow, painstaking and requiring close attention. So everything is fine, don’t focus on it!!! You have a technical channel, and for those who need entertainment and dancing, there is plenty of such content, they can look at another time, in another place. The cylinder liner was of course very worn out, the owner took a lot of time and miles to replace the piston, and ended up missing at least one repair size for boring. You can't drive like that. The fact that they changed the piston and bored out the cylinder is good, but the most important thing is why the piston lifted, he needs to figure it out!!! If you don’t figure it out, this cylinder will soon be in operation again!!! The temperature outside is truly amazing, one might say it’s spring. We are waiting for the continuation. Best regards, Dmitry. With love and all the best from Russia!
Thanks Dmitry, yes, this one was really worn, he will just need to take it easy at first, so he doesn't stick the piston. The piston requires .003 clearance and that is what it will have. He has an amazing story, and I am happy to help him keep the bike running. Yes, the temperature is amazing, not normal for this time of year. But we are enjoying it.
I have used my mill for 30 years and bored many single, twin, triple, and four cylinder engines. I never had a problem. The boring bar has a longer stroke and is designed for that one purpose only, the milling machine is designed for many different purposes including boring hence the "boring attachments" that can be bought for them. Enjoy your videos, keep up the great work!
Great work Dale. Love your videos as I cut my teeth on 70's twe stroke trail bikes ,predominately Yamaha's. Thanks for sharing your in depth experience. Greatly appreciated ,Roy. ,Queensland,Australia. 👍
Thanks Dale , Man 80,000 miles on a two stroke is Amazing . That fresh bore should wake the old Girl up . I wont say anything about Wiseco . I do have a 71 ts 125 with a wiseco . It seems like if you need to go over 3rd step it has to be Wiseco .
True. OEM never went over 1mm. Wiseco forged goes to 1.5 and there are still some 2.o out there. Wossner (Vintco) also makes them. I know Dale prefers OEM cast, but when you need over 1.0 Wiseco & Wossner are your only options.
Thank you, the follow up with the honing, chamfering and fitting will be this weekend's video, might even throw in a couple Heli coils. Hope you can watch.
great job dale and credit to suzuki 4 building these great 2 strokes also to people like you repairing these and keeping them going excallant work next video please
Just happened across your channel, as I have 3 mills the boring on a Bridgeport type mill piqued my interest and you mentioning it was 35 below zero a couple weeks ago and you're in Montana. I'm in Hamilton Mt. and have a Yamaha TY250 trials, also picked up a LT1 in pretty good shape recently I'm freshening up. Thanks, Ill be going through your back videos .
Well, hi there neighbor, yes, we had a couple cold ones here in the Great Falls area, been in the 60's this week though. Thats sure been nice. Sounds like we have some of the same interests for sure. Yes, most folks seem to enjoy the machining videos that I use to support the motorcycle content. It seems to work good together. I always like the TY250's, trying to remember is the LT1 a 100cc low pipe enduro/mx bike, maybe 72 or 73. They were cool too. Glad you run across the channel and hope you will come back time to time to check in with me.
Never had a TS185. TS250, TC90, TS90, tho. I have a lathe, a QwikWay and a Bridgeport.(also an old Sunnen CK-10) The most interesting story I got was making a .0001" Last Word Indicator fit the boring bar's tool holder. Makes it possible to mimic the lathe's ability to center up on the unworn top and nearly unworn bottom of the bore. I mostly do industrial small engines which mostly require the boring bar because cylinder & crankcase are one piece. Anyway I had a Honda GXV340 that ran very hot polishing floors while burning propane. Problem is I ID-miked the bore top bottom middle both parallel to the crank and perpendicular to it. The damn bore showed brand new bore size after 500 hours but the rings just wouldn't seal. So I measured it again using the Last Word in the boring bar. THE MIDDLE OF THE CYLINDER BORE WAS OFFSET FROM THE TOP AND BOTTOM . I found three Hondas that warped in that way over 20 years of repairing them. The heat from the LP fuel, the thrust of the piston on the power stroke, and the thin cast iron liner in the mostly aluminum block were all probably partly responsible for it. I wanted to share that with you. Also - You can overbore any "C Series", D Series F or E Series Lawnboy engine and stick a Wiseco piston for a TS185 in it and they will run pretty good! You will have to bush the wristpin holes in the new piston to match the skinny LB wristpin. Hope you liked the story and info. You are welcome!
Hi Patrick, man what a story it is, it is just amazing what you can figure out about engines if you are so inclined. Most would have just thrown those engines away, but you wanted to know what the problem was. Good for you. My mind has me looking at things in much the same way. Sometimes you just have to know. I have a couple videos on the old lawn boys, I was not aware that you could use that piston. Pistons are so hard to find for those anymore, the last one I did, I put a sleeve in it and used an old used piston, fitted to the new bore. Thanks for spending time with me in the shop. You are an interesting fellow. Thanks for the story and info.
Even a worn Bridgeport can bore just fine if the head is trammed square to the table while all locks are on a medium drag, main rule is dont change table height once you have started. Lathes are easier to assure the bore is square with a skim cut on the face of the fixture before bolting the cylinder down. Either way the hone is doing the hardest part imho. Keep up the good work Dale !!
I agree, my old worn-out Bridgeport would bore just fine, the hard part was the set up. It was just all over the place. But once setup and locked down, no problems. In most cases I do have to run the knee up and down, some of the bores are over 5 inches, so I have to bore to 5 then move the quill up, then move the knee up and continue the bore, sometimes there may be a little line, but the hone takes care of it. I even have to move it down to measure. I haven't run into any problems doing that with the new Jet. Yes, agree again, hone does all the precision work for sure. Thanks for your input, I learn a lot from all the good folks out there. Thanks for following the channel.
@6:29 did you just say "one of my other boring videos" 😄 I beg to differ sir, I find your videos fascinating! I tip my hat to you for your efforts in keeping these old 2 strokes alive. Cool videos!
I would not worry about your mill, if you are still getting your measurements consistently then it rigid enough. I think the older equipment is still better built old engineers had the wisdom to build things heavier than it was needed. You would never to be able to bore out a modern motor because no metal sleeves in the bores. You have a great set-up you (I am envious) it will keep you busy for a long time. Cheers
Thanks for your input, Carl, that was kind of what I though too. Just wondering what Machinists thought. I agree on the older equipment. I like my Bridgeport, but it was just so worn out. No way to afford a new one, the Jet is heaver I think because of the 49-inch table and the taller collum. But not the same as American equipment.
The 185s are fantastic engines, all those Suzukis have a unique sound too; I've put about 3,000 miles on one on and off road and only lubed the chain and keep the fluids filled. Never fouled or anything
No problem doing in a Bridgeport mill I have done kawasaki honda , four bank block& bore them out and re sleeved, also I use the test dial indicator on the out side of top spigot there no wear there
Thanks Jack, I really didn't believe the guy, but just wanted to get some machinist's view. Thank you. Sounds like you do a lot larger engines than me. Good idea on the outside of the sleeve. Some don't have that but good idea for the ones that do. Thank again.
I assume Kalgard is a coating like nikisel, I have never messed with any of the new coatings. I just work with the older bikes that you can bore. I'm sure it is much easier to recoat and always use a standard piston.
My first 2 trail bikes were ts185s first one was a older model second one newer model both in the 70s had the second one for years bored it twice kept it until 4wheelers came out then sold it great little street/ trail bikes
Of all the TS models Suzuki made the TS 185 was my favorite. They made a factory hop up kit that turned it into a 175 which made it legal for the 175 class but was just as fast as most of the 250’s way back when.
I built a mx bike out of a 71 TS185 and bought one of the 175cc hop up kits. It was actually very disappointing. Not much more power than stock. I rode it about 200 yards and took it back into the shop and took the top end back off for some porting. I also cut the pipe apart as it was double wall with a perforated inner liner. . The engine was way better after the changes but not really a race winner against Bultacos and Pentons.
Mine too, I still have my feelers out for a 185. Great bikes! I had heard of the hop up kits but never saw one or rode a bike with one installed. Wasn't it cool what manufacturers made for their bikes back then. None of that today that I am aware of.
Great work on that cylinder Dale. And none of your videos are boring even if that's what they're about I'm certain your equipment is up to the mark regardless of whatever anyone says. You would have had negative feedback a long time ago if there were issues. Cheers, Peter.
Thanks Peter, yes, I am sure the equipment is fine, there are just those that have nothing else to do but criticize others. Just don't understand the need to do it. Sure, appreciate you hanging out in the shop with me.
If he hasn’t put it back together already, suggest to him to contact Line2Line coatings about getting his piston treated before he puts it back together. He’d need to ask though if the piston cylinder wall clearances need to be adjusted to account for the treatment though.
Hey Dale, your boring videos are far from boring. I hope your customer continues to ride his bike for many more years. I always think that the proof of a pudding is in the eating. You have bored many cylinders successfully in your shop, so your equipment must be up to the job. Best wishes, Dean.
Thanks Dean, I agree, I have never had any trouble keeping tight spec's, the only trouble was with setup on the old worn-out machine. I am pretty sure the guy that critized the equipment probably never has bored one but is an expert. Go figure.
Glad I found this site. I have not bored a cylinder yet. That said I have a friend that does bike cylinders on his older lathe and does this a business. I plan to attempt one once I find a used 1979 (or compatible) XR80 cylinder for my race pit bike. My only question is can you finish bore and then just use a ball hone as a last step? I don't have access to the hone machine like yours. In any case great info! I do have a 1979 Maico case that needs a bearing bore welding and machined. That's on my list as well and I did watch your tutorial which is a great motivator.
Hey John, glad you stopped by. On the hone, no after you bore, you need to hone to size for your piston and clearance. The ball hone will not keep a round bore. You need a ridged hone to do the piston fit. After that if you install new rings or something like that you can use a ball hone to get your cross hatch back to seat your rings. Ridged hones are available to use with your cordless or corded hand drill (like a Lisle 15000). Thanks for hanging out in the shop with me.
Had two 185’s, a 71 and a 74. Best of the TS lineup IMO. I’m drawn to your Ford also. Do you have a walk around video on it. If you get it out this week please take us along for the ride.
I have always like the 185's, wished I had one now. Hope you enjoyed the Torino video, good idea, I have had lots of questions about it over the years.
Yes, they are doing a complete reseal. Yes, that was my thought too, I will be checking the top of the sleeve for flatness, I don't have the head though, I am sure he will install a new gasket or at least anneal it.
Another interesting video! From -35F to +60F is quite the temperature swing! Still hovering around +4C here in southern Ontario. Question, how long does it take to do 1 complete pass when boring a cylinder? Thanks!
Thank you, Pete, yes, we have some wild temperature swings here. I have it set on .0015, per rev. It probably takes about 3 or 4 minutes per trip. I could speed it up, but I'm in no hurry and don't want to stress the tooling or equipment.
Hi I'm loving watching You and Your machines at work, and I was thinking how very solid Your mill is. As for the TS185 that was a bike I wanted and nearly bought as My first bike when I was 17 and old enough to ride on the road, legally anyway!. Just that when I went to the local motorcycle dealers they didn't have one second hand, so I bought a Honda CB175 twin instead. I do wish that You lived closer to Me in the UK as I could use Your skill in My next engine build. I am proposing modifying My 2CV 602cc Flat Twin engine, by using larger barrels from a 2liter type 4 VW Engine. To end up with a 971cc flat twin. Actually I'm thinking that I can achieve all the work Myself using My 70 Year old lathe, well hopefully! I do have a question for You. Please would You know what would be the correct piston to bore clearance for a 94mm bore? I have recently posted a video on My channel showing My car? and engine and what I am proposing to build. Best Wishes Jahmahrah
Hi Jahmahrah, thank you for the kind words, I agree the TS185 is still on my wish list. Always wanted one. Wow you have much more vision than me, sounds like a big project. I am sure your lathe will be up to the task; it is amazing what can be done. I really don't know what the clearance would be, that is more like a car engine, close to 4 inches, I think. Would probably be in the .004 to .006 inches range. I will make a note to go over and check your video out. Thanks again for spending time with me in the shop.
I usually do .002 on each trip, I am sure you can be more aggressive, but I am not in any hurry, this saves the tooling and equipment. I save the last .004 for the hone. I am sure he is going to have fun with his new engine. Probably will be much more power.
I basically use one when I bore in the lathe. It's just part of the fixture. but no need in this case. I have heard most that bore a Harley Davidson use torque plates with them.
Yes, it is a Mesa Tool, you are right they make a replacement, but it doesn't have the length of this one. This one was built for the Criterion boring head and from what they told me, folks were buying them to use with the imports and they had a different center to center measurement, so they kept getting them back. So, the new one is adjustable and will fit all of them. But it just isn't the same.
Hello Dale this is in response to the Bridgeport being Ridgid enough to bore with don't know where this viewer got that information from I'm a 65 still working Machinist /Fabricator 48 years in the trade over the years I have bored out all kinds of die plates machinery parts you name it and never had an issue with the machine boring anything I guess you're always going to have someone criticize or overthink what you're doing now from cutting oil to the carbide you use but at the end of the day you do what's been working for you and apparently it has love your channel it's right up my alley
Thank you for your thoughts, mine are the same, however there are always those that criticize.... I'm sure the guy has never done any boring, but he is an expert. Sure, appreciate your input, and wow, all those years as a machinist, bet you're not learning any tips from me. Thanks for spending time with me in the shop.
Lathe, mill, boring bar. Have all 3. Boring bar is a quicker set up, but minimum cylinder diameter is 2.25”, so most of my cylinders are done on the mill. Smaller bore’s on the lathe. For 400 cc Husqvarna cylinders I do on the boring bar. All work well. Boring bar is faster set up, but that’s the only advantage. Keep doing what you are doing. Thanks for all good quality videos. 👍. My guess is that most folks that would comment on boring have never bored a cylinder!
Thanks JP, I have looked for the smaller Kwik way bar for a while, but they are just so expensive, or incomplete. Almost bought a new Van Norman, but the price was half that of the new Jet mill I got. Just could not justify for a one trick pony. I watched my dad years ago bore car cylinders with an old Van Norman bar, it was just amazing to watch. I have watched others set them up and they look a lot quicker than set up in the mill, and a whole lot easier than the lathe. I am sure your right about the comments. I just wanted to put it out there to see what the machinists thought. I have never had any trouble keeping tolerances with the mill or lathe. Many thanks.
They are not giving boring bars away. I think your investment in the knee mill was well-spent. Your craftsmanship and attention to detail guarantee a good bore. We only have so much room in the shop. When I was shopping for a lathe I was told not to consider the imports as they were junk, "find a high quality lightly used one instead". Good luck with that.
I bought a cheap one the size that would do the job and can not complain about accuracy or durability.
You are right John, I have tried for years to find a complete Kwik way boring bar, the small engine model. They are terrible expensive or incomplete. I started to buy a new Van Norman small engine model, but the price was half the price of the new Jet, and it is a one trick pony. So, I settled on the Jet, Bridgeport clone. I have heard all the same stuff about the imports, I have no regrets on either the mill or the lathe at this point. I guess one regret....I want to by USA manufactured, but I just can't justify the cost for what I am doing.
Very cool, Dale! Ed's story is fascinating! Great to see the old girl get a new lease on life. Nobody better than Dale to do this.
Thanks Jim, its cool to get the old girl back on the road for another 50 years.
80 000 miles! Must be a world record for a TS185. The ER version in white only was still being sold new in Japan until 2021, maybe still available. I always enjoyed the stuttering idle sound of a TS185 and the all-or-nothing power band after riding one myself for many years.
Indeed, they are good robust bikes, you are right they have their own sound. Super old bikes.
I loved the ART cast pistons! We had a tough time running forged Wiseco in Jet Skis with the giant temp swing and seizure...had to set them up looser.
I'm with you, ART is my piston of choice or at least cast is. I only run forged as a last resort. Don't care for all the noise.
got to respect Ed, wish i had the control to keep a bike that long. wish i still had my 1969 TS-250. amazing Japanese quality for sure.
No kidding Ed is the man. His story is amazing.
Great job Dale!!! Nothing is boring - this is work, slow, painstaking and requiring close attention. So everything is fine, don’t focus on it!!! You have a technical channel, and for those who need entertainment and dancing, there is plenty of such content, they can look at another time, in another place. The cylinder liner was of course very worn out, the owner took a lot of time and miles to replace the piston, and ended up missing at least one repair size for boring. You can't drive like that. The fact that they changed the piston and bored out the cylinder is good, but the most important thing is why the piston lifted, he needs to figure it out!!! If you don’t figure it out, this cylinder will soon be in operation again!!! The temperature outside is truly amazing, one might say it’s spring. We are waiting for the continuation. Best regards, Dmitry. With love and all the best from Russia!
Thanks Dmitry, yes, this one was really worn, he will just need to take it easy at first, so he doesn't stick the piston. The piston requires .003 clearance and that is what it will have. He has an amazing story, and I am happy to help him keep the bike running. Yes, the temperature is amazing, not normal for this time of year. But we are enjoying it.
I have used my mill for 30 years and bored many single, twin, triple, and four cylinder engines. I never had a problem. The boring bar has a longer stroke and is designed for that one purpose only, the milling machine is designed for many different purposes including boring hence the "boring attachments" that can be bought for them. Enjoy your videos, keep up the great work!
Thanks for your insight, Tommy. I sure appreciate you taking the time to comment on the boring question. Thanks for spending time with me in the shop.
Great work Dale. Love your videos as I cut my teeth on 70's twe stroke trail bikes ,predominately Yamaha's.
Thanks for sharing your in depth experience. Greatly appreciated ,Roy. ,Queensland,Australia. 👍
Thank you, Roy, that was my experience also. Just really love the old smokers.
I think your work is proving that the Bridgeport works just fine. The final honing is ultimately going to determine the final size and fit.
Thanks Don, that's my opinion too, there are always going to be those that criticize. True the hone has the final say.
Thanks Dale , Man 80,000 miles on a two stroke is Amazing . That fresh bore should wake the old Girl up . I wont say anything about Wiseco . I do have a 71 ts 125 with a wiseco . It seems like if you need to go over 3rd step it has to be Wiseco .
True. OEM never went over 1mm. Wiseco forged goes to 1.5 and there are still some 2.o out there. Wossner (Vintco) also makes them. I know Dale prefers OEM cast, but when you need over 1.0 Wiseco & Wossner are your only options.
Yes his story is amazing, but they all wear out, getting him back on the road again is fantastic.
Thanks Dale,exactly what I been looking for. Looking forward to the follow up.
Thank you, the follow up with the honing, chamfering and fitting will be this weekend's video, might even throw in a couple Heli coils. Hope you can watch.
great job dale and credit to suzuki 4 building these great 2 strokes also to people like you repairing these and keeping them going excallant work next video please
Very true my friend. I don't think those company's ever though their bikes would still be going is long.
Just happened across your channel, as I have 3 mills the boring on a Bridgeport type mill piqued my interest and you mentioning it was 35 below zero a couple weeks ago and you're in Montana. I'm in Hamilton Mt. and have a Yamaha TY250 trials, also picked up a LT1 in pretty good shape recently I'm freshening up. Thanks, Ill be going through your back videos .
Well, hi there neighbor, yes, we had a couple cold ones here in the Great Falls area, been in the 60's this week though. Thats sure been nice. Sounds like we have some of the same interests for sure. Yes, most folks seem to enjoy the machining videos that I use to support the motorcycle content. It seems to work good together. I always like the TY250's, trying to remember is the LT1 a 100cc low pipe enduro/mx bike, maybe 72 or 73. They were cool too. Glad you run across the channel and hope you will come back time to time to check in with me.
Never had a TS185. TS250, TC90, TS90, tho.
I have a lathe, a QwikWay and a Bridgeport.(also an old Sunnen CK-10) The most interesting story I got was making a .0001" Last Word Indicator fit the boring bar's tool holder. Makes it possible to mimic the lathe's ability to center up on the unworn top and nearly unworn bottom of the bore.
I mostly do industrial small engines which mostly require the boring bar because cylinder & crankcase are one piece. Anyway I had a Honda GXV340 that ran very hot polishing floors while burning propane. Problem is I ID-miked the bore top bottom middle both parallel to the crank and perpendicular to it. The damn bore showed brand new bore size after 500 hours but the rings just wouldn't seal.
So I measured it again using the Last Word in the boring bar. THE MIDDLE OF THE CYLINDER BORE WAS OFFSET FROM THE TOP AND BOTTOM . I found three Hondas that warped in that way over 20 years of repairing them. The heat from the LP fuel, the thrust of the piston on the power stroke, and the thin cast iron liner in the mostly aluminum block were all probably partly responsible for it.
I wanted to share that with you.
Also - You can overbore any "C Series", D Series F or E Series Lawnboy engine and stick a Wiseco piston for a TS185 in it and they will run pretty good! You will have to bush the wristpin holes in the new piston to match the skinny LB wristpin.
Hope you liked the story and info. You are welcome!
Hi Patrick, man what a story it is, it is just amazing what you can figure out about engines if you are so inclined. Most would have just thrown those engines away, but you wanted to know what the problem was. Good for you. My mind has me looking at things in much the same way. Sometimes you just have to know.
I have a couple videos on the old lawn boys, I was not aware that you could use that piston. Pistons are so hard to find for those anymore, the last one I did, I put a sleeve in it and used an old used piston, fitted to the new bore. Thanks for spending time with me in the shop. You are an interesting fellow. Thanks for the story and info.
Dale , it seems to me the proof that it can be done is in the outcome , and you seem to have that nailed !
Thanks John, that's what I think too. Sure, appreciate you stopping by.
Great job Dale!!!
Even a worn Bridgeport can bore just fine if the head is trammed square to the table while all locks are on a medium drag, main rule is dont change table height once you have started. Lathes are easier to assure the bore is square with a skim cut on the face of the fixture before bolting the cylinder down. Either way the hone is doing the hardest part imho. Keep up the good work Dale !!
I agree, my old worn-out Bridgeport would bore just fine, the hard part was the set up. It was just all over the place. But once setup and locked down, no problems. In most cases I do have to run the knee up and down, some of the bores are over 5 inches, so I have to bore to 5 then move the quill up, then move the knee up and continue the bore, sometimes there may be a little line, but the hone takes care of it. I even have to move it down to measure. I haven't run into any problems doing that with the new Jet. Yes, agree again, hone does all the precision work for sure. Thanks for your input, I learn a lot from all the good folks out there. Thanks for following the channel.
@6:29 did you just say "one of my other boring videos" 😄 I beg to differ sir, I find your videos fascinating! I tip my hat to you for your efforts in keeping these old 2 strokes alive. Cool videos!
Thank you, not all folks enjoy the machining part of this. It's my favorite though.
I would not worry about your mill, if you are still getting your measurements consistently then it rigid enough. I think the older equipment is still better built old engineers had the wisdom to build things heavier than it was needed. You would never to be able to bore out a modern motor because no metal sleeves in the bores. You have a great set-up you (I am envious) it will keep you busy for a long time. Cheers
Thanks for your input, Carl, that was kind of what I though too. Just wondering what Machinists thought. I agree on the older equipment. I like my Bridgeport, but it was just so worn out. No way to afford a new one, the Jet is heaver I think because of the 49-inch table and the taller collum. But not the same as American equipment.
You have great shop and skills! Greetings from Finland!
❄️☃️🎅🏻👍🏻🇫🇮
Thank you and glad to see you spending time with me in the shop.
The 185s are fantastic engines, all those Suzukis have a unique sound too; I've put about 3,000 miles on one on and off road and only lubed the chain and keep the fluids filled. Never fouled or anything
You will not get an argument from me. They are great bikes, like to have one myself.
No problem doing in a Bridgeport mill I have done kawasaki honda , four bank block& bore them out and re sleeved, also I use the test dial indicator on the out side of top spigot there no wear there
Thanks Jack, I really didn't believe the guy, but just wanted to get some machinist's view. Thank you. Sounds like you do a lot larger engines than me. Good idea on the outside of the sleeve. Some don't have that but good idea for the ones that do. Thank again.
Kalgard bake time is forever awesome......
I assume Kalgard is a coating like nikisel, I have never messed with any of the new coatings. I just work with the older bikes that you can bore. I'm sure it is much easier to recoat and always use a standard piston.
Brush paint on not in ring groove, bake in oven, the external jugs only the power dif is awesome go big go sky high you will never forget that....
My first 2 trail bikes were ts185s first one was a older model second one newer model both in the 70s had the second one for years bored it twice kept it until 4wheelers came out then sold it great little street/ trail bikes
Always wanted a 185, still on my wish list. Thanks for hanging out with me in the shop.
Of all the TS models Suzuki made the TS 185 was my favorite. They made a factory hop up kit that turned it into a 175 which made it legal for the 175 class but was just as fast as most of the 250’s way back when.
I built a mx bike out of a 71 TS185 and bought one of the 175cc hop up kits. It was actually very disappointing. Not much more power than stock. I rode it about 200 yards and took it back into the shop and took the top end back off for some porting. I also cut the pipe apart as it was double wall with a perforated inner liner.
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The engine was way better after the changes but not really a race winner against Bultacos and Pentons.
Mine too, I still have my feelers out for a 185. Great bikes! I had heard of the hop up kits but never saw one or rode a bike with one installed. Wasn't it cool what manufacturers made for their bikes back then. None of that today that I am aware of.
Great work on that cylinder Dale. And none of your videos are boring even if that's what they're about
I'm certain your equipment is up to the mark regardless of whatever anyone says. You would have had negative feedback a long time ago if there were issues.
Cheers, Peter.
Thanks Peter, yes, I am sure the equipment is fine, there are just those that have nothing else to do but criticize others. Just don't understand the need to do it. Sure, appreciate you hanging out in the shop with me.
It takes longer qith that setup without a boring bar for small engines but works great 🙏
Thank you Gabriel!
Nice job ever done Dale sweger❤
Thanks you, thanks for stopping by.
If he hasn’t put it back together already, suggest to him to contact Line2Line coatings about getting his piston treated before he puts it back together. He’d need to ask though if the piston cylinder wall clearances need to be adjusted to account for the treatment though.
I will mention it to him, I am not familiar with Line2line, I will make a note to look them up and see what it's about. Thanks for the heads up.
Great job brother. That takes time.
Thanks buddy, it could be done quicker, but I am in no hurry. I'm not on the clock.
Good morning Dale, got my coffee and hanging out with ya.
Thanks buddy I sure appreciate you.
@@montana2strokeracer, your welcome Dale. I really enjoy watching your channel.
Hey Dale, your boring videos are far from boring. I hope your customer continues to ride his bike for many more years.
I always think that the proof of a pudding is in the eating. You have bored many cylinders successfully in your shop, so your equipment must be up to the job.
Best wishes, Dean.
Thanks Dean, I agree, I have never had any trouble keeping tight spec's, the only trouble was with setup on the old worn-out machine. I am pretty sure the guy that critized the equipment probably never has bored one but is an expert. Go figure.
Good morning Dale, I'm still here my friend.
Thanks Larry and good morning.
1st
Looking forward to learning more from you Dale.
Here with Carmel popcorn.
Have a good day.
Carmel is my fav, thanks for stopping by Mark.
Hi Dale, good video, you need to replace the camera man, he is making me sea sick!.😂
I know man, it makes me sick to watch it too. I was trying to get close and show more and screwed it up. Sorry, maybe some tums.
Glad I found this site. I have not bored a cylinder yet. That said I have a friend that does bike cylinders on his older lathe and does this a business. I plan to attempt one once I find a used 1979 (or compatible) XR80 cylinder for my race pit bike. My only question is can you finish bore and then just use a ball hone as a last step? I don't have access to the hone machine like yours. In any case great info! I do have a 1979 Maico case that needs a bearing bore welding and machined. That's on my list as well and I did watch your tutorial which is a great motivator.
Hey John, glad you stopped by. On the hone, no after you bore, you need to hone to size for your piston and clearance. The ball hone will not keep a round bore. You need a ridged hone to do the piston fit. After that if you install new rings or something like that you can use a ball hone to get your cross hatch back to seat your rings. Ridged hones are available to use with your cordless or corded hand drill (like a Lisle 15000). Thanks for hanging out in the shop with me.
Boring video not boring. Cheers
Thanks buddy, I appreciate it.
Had two 185’s, a 71 and a 74. Best of the TS lineup IMO. I’m drawn to your Ford also. Do you have a walk around video on it. If you get it out this week please take us along for the ride.
I have always like the 185's, wished I had one now. Hope you enjoyed the Torino video, good idea, I have had lots of questions about it over the years.
I hope he changes the crankshaft seals. He might be sucking air and running hot. Looks like the head gasket was leaking
Yes, they are doing a complete reseal. Yes, that was my thought too, I will be checking the top of the sleeve for flatness, I don't have the head though, I am sure he will install a new gasket or at least anneal it.
if you are comfortable setting up on the bridgeport and you get a good finnish and you hone it in i dont think it matters what machine you use .
Thats the way I look at it also, thank you for your input, it is much appreciated!
Does a 1.5mm overbore change the transfer port angle and timing?
Oh wow, never thought about it. Port timing no, but I could see a change to transfer port width possibly. Good question.
65 degrees!!
Another interesting video! From -35F to +60F is quite the temperature swing! Still hovering around +4C here in southern Ontario. Question, how long does it take to do 1 complete pass when boring a cylinder? Thanks!
Thank you, Pete, yes, we have some wild temperature swings here. I have it set on .0015, per rev. It probably takes about 3 or 4 minutes per trip. I could speed it up, but I'm in no hurry and don't want to stress the tooling or equipment.
Hi I'm loving watching You and Your machines at work, and I was thinking how very solid Your mill is. As for the TS185 that was a bike I wanted and nearly bought as My first bike when I was 17 and old enough to ride on the road, legally anyway!. Just that when I went to the local motorcycle dealers they didn't have one second hand, so I bought a Honda CB175 twin instead. I do wish that You lived closer to Me in the UK as I could use Your skill in My next engine build. I am proposing modifying My 2CV 602cc Flat Twin engine, by using larger barrels from a 2liter type 4 VW Engine. To end up with a 971cc flat twin. Actually I'm thinking that I can achieve all the work Myself using My 70 Year old lathe, well hopefully! I do have a question for You. Please would You know what would be the correct piston to bore clearance for a 94mm bore? I have recently posted a video on My channel showing My car? and engine and what I am proposing to build.
Best Wishes Jahmahrah
Hi Jahmahrah, thank you for the kind words, I agree the TS185 is still on my wish list. Always wanted one. Wow you have much more vision than me, sounds like a big project. I am sure your lathe will be up to the task; it is amazing what can be done. I really don't know what the clearance would be, that is more like a car engine, close to 4 inches, I think. Would probably be in the .004 to .006 inches range. I will make a note to go over and check your video out. Thanks again for spending time with me in the shop.
😍😍😍🤩🤩🤩🤩👌👌👌👌👏👏👏👏
Dale: Question, That is one beefy-looking boring bar, not your run-of-the-mill type. Is that a Mesa Tool product and what size is it?
Yes, John it is made by Mesa tool, they don't make this model anymore. But they have a replacement, not as good in my opinion.
How many thou on each cut. How many thou on the hone . Hope the guy enjoys his bike back in top condition. Thanks
I usually do .002 on each trip, I am sure you can be more aggressive, but I am not in any hurry, this saves the tooling and equipment. I save the last .004 for the hone. I am sure he is going to have fun with his new engine. Probably will be much more power.
Why do you suppose it is that a torque plate isn’t used on these small engine cylinders? Is it not that much of a factor on them?
I basically use one when I bore in the lathe. It's just part of the fixture. but no need in this case. I have heard most that bore a Harley Davidson use torque plates with them.
That many miles is unheard of on an enduro bike. So is that max for boring the cylinder?
You are right there John, I have never heard of that many miles on this type of bike. I actually think he can still go to 2mm.
Good morning Dale, what kind of boring bar is in your boring head?
Bored many cylinders just like you in a Mill.
Thanks for sharing. 👍
Mesa Tools. Don't think they make that exact one anymore.
Yes, it is a Mesa Tool, you are right they make a replacement, but it doesn't have the length of this one. This one was built for the Criterion boring head and from what they told me, folks were buying them to use with the imports and they had a different center to center measurement, so they kept getting them back. So, the new one is adjustable and will fit all of them. But it just isn't the same.
At about 7:56 in this video it shows a tool holder in your boring head. Where would I find one like that? Thanks.
Hey Don, the tool holder is made by Mesa Tools. I have heard they have discontinued this exact one, but have a replacement.
Hi! Dale. I found them. I'm a neighbor just across the border to your north, THANKS.@@montana2strokeracer
Your welcome Don, you guys need to keep that gate shut up there. That last cold snap was a bear.
We like to share.@@montana2strokeracer
LOL
well hello, Folks.
Dale, can I pm you? I'm not sure how.
No way that I know of. Shoot me an email dsweger@bresnan.net