ENGLAND PLAYER RATINGS v New Zealand (All Blacks) | 1st Test 2024 ----------------------- Rugby artwork in background courtesy of Blair Skivington www.etsy.com/u...
That’s very unfair on Marcus Smith - I thought he was the one that got our attack moving and was surprised when he was taken off. We didn’t score a point after he left the field and don’t remember Finn Smith’s name being mentioned once. The NZ commentary team I was listening to also expressed surprise about his substitution. He did miss a few kicks but even the best fly half’s have bad days.
Yeah I’m with you on this, however I think they should relieve him of kicking duties for the next game. He’s too good in attack not to have in the team
Think Finn is far better and should be given a chance. If he played for Rassie he would be straight off remember libbok. Last 5 games England won 2 lost 3 yes they beat Ireland last minute at home and tier2 nation japan so Marcus has not had that much success hopping around like a fly and getting completely run over in tackles and missing kicks does not make a great 10 .
AB's fan here For me THEY shouldn't of taken Marcus off he's like a touch player...he gave us a Headache....England a very gud ❤ alot of our fans have too remember its our 1st game together England just finished the 6 Nations alot of our fans say will beat them 60+ not me this ain't the 80s 😂 Northern Hemisphere teams have caught up too Southern Hemisphere teams....so gud luck this week ❤ go the AB's
Agreed. Although there are plenty who have less excuse for their ignorance of SH rugby than RA who are peddling this line. The Dunedin Stadium is notoriously difficult for place kicking, as witnessed for both 10s today. It has a roof but is also open at the sides which creates unpredictable wind conditions inside the stadium. Jonny Wilkinson notably missed 5 from 8 kicks in the game against Argentina there in RWC2011. I’m generally in favour of ‘opening up’ the player scoring, but Smith was one of England’s best players and 4/10 is properly nonsense.
The thing about Marcus is, people think he’s a bad goal kicker. That’s not true. He had the highest kick percentage rate in Europe last year, he is a good goal kicker. He just has bad days at the office sometimes and today was one of them. Giving him a 4 is incredibly harsh
I think that's rather harsh on Marcus Smith - yes, he missed a couple of kicks but was also instrumental in firing England's attack. Fin Smith did very little when he came on.
Totally agree . The referee must have looked at the scrumage during his half time break and pinged DeGrote in the first scrum of the 2nd half. Razor realised that Degrote's tactics were found out and took him off straight away
LMFAO when your actually going forward you get those calls. Its that simple. The Irish said the same rubbish when degroot wasted them in the WC quarter final. They genuinely thought the refs would fall for them wheeling the scrum illegally when they were going backwards faster than they could wheel it. At least the English team didnt try that pathetic rubbish to get out of it and just let us run them over LOL. Degroot has done this to everyone other than the maybe the french and even that went 50/50. He's one of the best props in the world. When he smashes you lot again next weekend maybe you'll figure that out and actually find some props that can scrummage.
The English front row was purposely going backwards on the hit to make the ABs front row overextended, making it look like they were pushing early, the Irish were using the same tactic on SA, The ABs clearly had the dominant scrum, wouldn't make sense for them to use dirty tactics
Furbank looks like our best fullback since prime Mike Brown. What a turnaround from him. Agree about Spencer, wanted him to play for ages, but he just looked utterly bewildered by it all. Apart from Baxter and Dan, all of the subs seemed to make us worse. We're at such a disadvantage against the big boys without a top monster tighthead, just praying one of those under 20's can step up soon. Fasogbon, Sela, Halliwell - do you see the answer from one of these 3 Rich?
Best since Foden. Brown was always a mixed bag even when "Prime" Agree about Spencer. I have wanted him backed for ages but he sucked the life out of our attack when he came on.
Still think Painter and Isoefa-Scot should have been given a chance on this tour. They may not be all court, Sinckler types but they are both huge and can anchor a scrum. Another youngster to look out for is Harper at Sale. He has a bit of Sheridan about him.
It’s annoying that we suddenly have all these tighthead prospects who are roughly the same age as it usually at around 30 that players peak in that position.
Tbh i can't blame the loss on Smiths missed kicks. The ABs had a much better bench and in the last quarter that made a big difference in momentum. Beauden Barrett coming on as a finisher tells you the gulf in class
You can not judge anyone's ability on place kicks! Marcus Smith's attack play was very good - he was the best fly half on the pitch, and if you want to grade upon place kicks then D Mac should be awarded a 3. Finn Smith higher than Marcus Smith?!? Also Marler only scrummaged twice! Stuart was done by the referee who didn't spot DeGroot scrummaging upward and round - he was pulled straight after half time when the referee finally spotted it, probably after being informed at the interval.
So, his role as a goal kicker counts for nothing? If so, why did the World Cup winners choose to bring in Handre Pollard, didn't he kick them to victory, including a 50-metre effort to defeat England?
The England substitutions all went a bit wrong. Curry sealing off for the last 3 points and looking undercooked. The lazy no arms tackle, with fatigue not being a factor. Spencer slowing things down when we were chasing the game
I disagree with your assessment of Stuart because DeGroot did not scrummage legally and it took the ref until half time to see it. I also thought you were a bit lenient with Lawrence who needs to improve when to kick and when to pass.
Agree generally with these ratings. Re Tommy Freeman, it's obvious that he should move into his best position in the center's. He has the class and additional pace needed to play outside Lawrence.
You’re talking like Smiths kicking is bad generally, but it’s actually very good. He just had an off day. I feel he had a very good game otherwise (I’m a fan of his but don’t think he’s the second coming, so not blindly defending him) and think “4 at the most” is too harsh
Officials could have done better. Looking at the subs, we’d have been better keeping Marcus and Mitchell on for the 80… neither looked knackered. Props the problem.
For me, I agree with a lot of what you say (especially about Will Stuart - He is torrid for England), but where I most disagree is Slade. I thought Slade was awful yesterday. Stupid kicks out of hand when on attack, giving away possession in good attacking areas irritated me sooo much. I would like to see Freeman at 13 and Roebuck on the wing. I think Earl was great (Other than the missed tackle). Key moment for me was when Cunningham-South went off. Curry did very little other than give away silly penalties. I think it is about time that we start Theo Dan. He is just so much better than George. Mitchell and Smith together are a handful.
Finn Smith marked higher than Marcus Smith. Don't be ridiculous. F Smith was absolutely average. England lost due to crap "by the numbers" substitutions. Mitchell and smith needed to stay on if we were going to have any chance of nicking the game late. Spencer in particular was pants.
No. Not for me. I’d start freeman again but use Sleightholme/roebuck off the bench earlier. Don’t think it’s the best idea to start Sleightholme with no intl experience at Eden park
One miss performance isn’t enough to bench one of our best players for an untested winger. Freeman will be back and better I imagine although giving sleight home 5 mins is insulting I would have made the swap at 65 mins.
Not for me. Freeman is a class player who didn't have his best game. Sleightholme is unproven although obviously massive potential. I'd go the same again, try and get Freeman more touches to build his confidence and sub him earlier if he has a similar mixed game.
Baxter was a huge positive and good to have another prop who can scrummage as well as be good around the park. We can’t rely on Genge at the scrum. Cole was poor in the scrum when he came on. Marcus smith was disappointing. Proves again he’s better suited as an impact sub. Mitchell and Furbank were the stand outs. Martin and Itoje were also very good. Hopefully Fin Smith and Sleightholme get more game time in the next game. The time they were given was not enough
A factor that needs to be considered is Robertson had England’s 6N games + the Japan run out to get a sense of England’s setup and tactics. Borthwick basically went into that game blind in terms of knowing what he was facing. That we nearly won and did so with a few below par performances was a good result. Frustrating, yeah, but I think we’ll see less reliance on box kicking this week and hopefully, get Feyi-Waboso on the ball a bit more.
Itoje must enjoy playing the ABs as he always raises his game when up against the Black. The English team is not chock full of rugby superstars but they have a cohesion and power to their game that shows Borthwick is building a team that is a real handful and will only get better
and Freeman turned a numbered up defence into a 2 on 1 v Earl ... still Earls mistake but had Freeman not blitzed both wide and beyond the play there's a chance he helps with the tackle or at least closes the wide open gate. Less said about Smiths pathetic flap at Perefeta the better too.
Just really wanted to say I appreciate all of your analysis and opinions and in particular what you did here in exaggerating the ratings to make clear points on who you felt performed well vs not so well. As you reference the majority of ratings like this end up exclusively 6's and 7's which does not really express much of a view. As a kiwi (living in the US) I thought Itoje was absolutely immense, perhaps still contending for best lock (player??) in the world? Also agree Cunningham-South was very destructive as a down-hill ball carrier. Smith I am conflicted on.. as a kiwi I was relieved to see him substituted as to my eye he looked by far the most likely player to break the game in counter-attack or on a fast recycle, but agree goal kicking hugely important in an arm wrestle like this and that is clearly what Borthwick was thinking would get the English home. Ben Earl tricky one also.. overall played pretty well I thought, and that particular move by StevieP likely beats almost any forward in that moment. That said.. there was not a lot of space and any 7/8 would expect themselves to make that tackle. Again.. thanks again for your work providing analysis!
Agree. Very poor in attack especially. Its interesting that those who regualrly slated old England for kicking away great attacking ball have nothing to say now their favourites are doing it.
4 is a very harsh mark for Marcus Smith. He's part of the reason England were so close to winning the game! Got the attack firing and made some smart tactical kicks. Yes, he missed some kicks but a fly half is more than their goal kicking stats, see George Ford and Owen Farrell in the last two Six Nations campaigns who both kicked poorly at goal by their high standards.
I agree with Stuart, never plays well in an England shirt! Props are a huge issue for us. I think you've done Marcus dirty though! No one kicks well on that ground, dmac didn't kick well, Wilkinson himself struggled at Dunedin, it's a horrible stadium for kickers. Marcus was much better than Finn, IMO, much better.
Finn has not been given a start and thats huge for a 10, what game has Marcus had a memorable kicking win (NONE) no other international tier 1 would have him first choice if he cannot kick. We also seem to forget he gets steamrolled by bigger players look at him and his lack of cover for the NZ try, and nobody can say he’s even close to McKenzie .
Like the scoring method. Furbank was great and he took some huge hits. Marcus looked ok (part from his kicking) but I do think he was targeted which created some space around him for others to attack into. Maybe that channel could be looked at more closely as an opportunity
Thanks for the content mate, I think the rating of 4 for Smith is harsh he did a lot right in attack. Little dummy pass of his always makes defence double guess. Think the leadership team should have stepped up and giving kicking duties to Slade. I know Smith can kick as I’m a Quins fan so I’m sure he can get it sorted out quickly.
Facts speak for speak for themselves . A 10 who has a poor kicking conversion rate is not going to get you a win in a high pressure match with a tight score line. You can argue the finishers did not finish and the penalties conceded were a killer. A great game to watch. We are definitely not getting the best team out on the park. Due to Injuries and selection policy excluding players abroad. I feel sorry for the team as they have had a gruelling season. they do have it in them to win next week . honesty goes a long way.
Marcus was poor from the tee. He will be very aware of that. He was great to sensational for Quins in the two years leading up to the Premiership victory with a number of crucial conversations from both touch lines The last two seasons he has not had the same consistency as we saw on Saturday Nick Evans - work to be done please!
How much prep and game time has Ben Spencer had for Eng? He has great potential but hasn't really had the opportunity to even get a 'warmup' game? A few players did look like rabbits in the headlights, but have great potential..they need to be nurtured to cope psychologically with these situations. Finally how do Eng combat NZ's interpretation of pushing straight (i.e. in and up by the tighthead). Who is the ref for the 2nd test?
For those saying he’s being tough on Smith for his goal kicking and that usually he is ‘very good but just has an off day’ are missing the point. These ratings are for THIS MATCH. Winning tests is about fine margins and that may come down to pens or conversions…clutch moments. He screwed up some clutch moments and therefore the assessment is fair.
Thanks, this is exactly what I was trying to do. Sport is fickle, you can have a terrible game but do one thing that wins it or a great game and one thing that loses it.
That was Englands best chance to beat the All Blacks for the first time in NZ since 2003 (21 years). The England team was settled, game harden, motivated. The All Blacks were together for just 10 days, major regime changes. Changes in personnel and coaching, 18 new personnel in management, and the last time they played was as a 14 man team in the world cup final last year. That's the take away, and a pointer t how things will go at Eden Park this coming weekend for anyone that truly understands rugby and how test matches involving NZ go.
On will stuart, is he a top tier international? No but jesus he is one of the best in the prem and if they cany dominate him there then he is the best option here, guys wont suddenly come to test rugby and be magically better scrummagers
Furbank 8 Feyi-Wabosi 7 Slade 6 Lawrence 7 Freeman 6 M Smith 5 Mitchell 8 Marler (not on long enough) George 6 Stuart 5 Itoje 8 Martin 7 Cunningham-South 7 Underhill 8 Earl 7 Subs - Baxter 7 Dan 7 Cole 5 Curry 6 Spencer 5 F Smith 6 Coles 5
The bench did not make a significant difference and i wonder if CCS should be on the bench to supply that impact and Curry or Aiex Coles should start at 6 . Coles will add a very good line out option.
4 for Marcus seems very harsh as why didn't the captain call up Slade to kick instead? Otherwise he looked pretty good elsewhere. Furbank wasn't a 9 for sure good but not that good.
Harsh on Freeman, I don’t think he’s at risk of his place. He got some pretty poor service from Slade and hardly got the chance to show what he can do. When he did get the chance to carry he looked very good and arguably set the platform for the Feyi-Waboso try. He didn’t get the success under the high ball which he normally would tho. He’d be more like a 6, but you’re clearly exaggerating the scores to create more disparity.
Far too harsh on Stuart I think he had a good game was very unlucky to not get more pens given against de groot. I think a little harsh on smith as if Slade was kicking I reckon he is a 6/7. So glad everyone if finally seeing what Furbank is capable of.
Bit harsh on SmithM but test rugby against NZ, in NZ, is harsh... What are we going to do with props? Probably should have taken Trevor Davison in hindsight....
England were good but rusty AB's like Savea (who's been playing soft rugby in Japan), Dalton (who shouldnt even be starting) and Finau who didnt do much at all contributed to quite a few mistakes from 30mins on that let England back into that match. NZ were cruising at the 30min mark and went to sleep + did stupid chit like trying to play out of their half in the last minute of the first half and gave away one of the dumbest penalties in front of the posts iv ever seen a NZ side do. If we sort out our flankers and play guys who should be starting like Blackadder at 7 and Proctor at centre NZ will be very tough to beat. I reckon even without Mounga for the season we can beat the boks twice in Southafrica with this team if the right selections and tactics are made.
Pinging amith for goalkicking is ok but this is a one game sample size… he is one of the better kicks in the prem and slade as a suggestion is oretty nonsensical since he is far from good even at club level. He offered more on attack, finn smith as much as I love him offered nothing after coming on while marcus atleast got us moving.
Understand that Earl gets marked down for the bad miss tackle on Perefeta but again he had a huge game elsewhere and his involvements are off the chart. Top carrier, one of the top defenders, passing pivot on some of our best attack moves, etc In contrast what on earth did Underhill do to get an above average mark? Almost anonymous (and not in a Richard Hill way) other than clattering DMac once or twice. We either need Earl at 7 or a better option than Underhill. Smith was also poor on both trys. On the first his position as sweeper is wrong and he does nothing to help Freeman on the Perefeta line break he has the chance to tackle Perefeta and likely stop him getting the pass away. Instead he stands his ground and flaps making no impact. Kicked away some of our best attacking ball too. A 3 would be generous.
No issue with the format of your scoring, promotes debate which i assume is your intention however as a general point you and other commentators have backed yourselves into a corner with the prop situation, England either move on, take the pain of losing a higher percentage of scrums but develop a new front row or stick with the tried and tested which based on your scoring rational is now a busted flush. The world cup semi final was the high point for the Cole/Marler partnership and i cannot remember Stuart ever setting a benchmark performance in an England shirt so where does this leave England?
Furbank, CCS, Itoje and Marting were all class. Never rated Furbank untill this season. Props are very weak, Marler and Cole are so far past their prime its not even funny! Freeman also doesnt look like an international winger, put Roebuck in!
@barrysheridan9186 Sure, if Smith had landed any one of those missed kicks, England could have won. NZ missed out on points from the tee as well though. It wasn't just the kicks that cost England the game. Giving away silly penalties gave NZ opportunities for cheap points too. I don't like blaming kickers, it just puts more pressure on them. Overall, I think it was a good performance and really could have gone either way.
I seem to remember England whining for months about new management coaches and transitioning, yet first game for the ABs in 7 months and they come out and don’t make excuses and win. Should we forget getting beaten by Fiji at home.
I can't believe with all the people that play rugby in England that they can't find 2 props younger than Marlar and Coles there to slow there past there time they don't make much ground and don't score any trys unbelievable
Poor kicking from Marcus but offers so much more. Shame he can’t nail that one aspect of his game. It’s also a shame that the officials missed Barrett cleaning out Marcus directly to the head!! Red all day long!!
That’s very unfair on Marcus Smith - I thought he was the one that got our attack moving and was surprised when he was taken off. We didn’t score a point after he left the field and don’t remember Finn Smith’s name being mentioned once. The NZ commentary team I was listening to also expressed surprise about his substitution. He did miss a few kicks but even the best fly half’s have bad days.
Yeah I’m with you on this, however I think they should relieve him of kicking duties for the next game. He’s too good in attack not to have in the team
Think Finn is far better and should be given a chance. If he played for Rassie he would be straight off remember libbok. Last 5 games England won 2 lost 3 yes they beat Ireland last minute at home and tier2 nation japan so Marcus has not had that much success hopping around like a fly and getting completely run over in tackles and missing kicks does not make a great 10 .
AB's fan here For me THEY shouldn't of taken Marcus off he's like a touch player...he gave us a Headache....England a very gud ❤ alot of our fans have too remember its our 1st game together England just finished the 6 Nations alot of our fans say will beat them 60+ not me this ain't the 80s 😂 Northern Hemisphere teams have caught up too Southern Hemisphere teams....so gud luck this week ❤ go the AB's
Sadly I think you will find out in time that MS is not a reliable goal kicker.
Agreed. Although there are plenty who have less excuse for their ignorance of SH rugby than RA who are peddling this line.
The Dunedin Stadium is notoriously difficult for place kicking, as witnessed for both 10s today. It has a roof but is also open at the sides which creates unpredictable wind conditions inside the stadium. Jonny Wilkinson notably missed 5 from 8 kicks in the game against Argentina there in RWC2011.
I’m generally in favour of ‘opening up’ the player scoring, but Smith was one of England’s best players and 4/10 is properly nonsense.
The thing about Marcus is, people think he’s a bad goal kicker. That’s not true. He had the highest kick percentage rate in Europe last year, he is a good goal kicker. He just has bad days at the office sometimes and today was one of them. Giving him a 4 is incredibly harsh
Jury is out. Club and Country are a different kind of pressure.
9* for Itoje for me. Best game in years from one of the best players in the world. Showed his class. Can’t ask for much more from a second row.
agree he was for me the best player on the field
I think that's rather harsh on Marcus Smith - yes, he missed a couple of kicks but was also instrumental in firing England's attack. Fin Smith did very little when he came on.
I disagree on Stuart. De Groot got away with murder in the scrum and was hooked as soon as the ref cottoned on.
🤣😂 Are you his mother? He got embarrassed by a vastly superior prop. De Groot is world class.
Totally agree . The referee must have looked at the scrumage during his half time break and pinged DeGrote in the first scrum of the 2nd half. Razor realised that Degrote's tactics were found out and took him off straight away
LMFAO when your actually going forward you get those calls. Its that simple. The Irish said the same rubbish when degroot wasted them in the WC quarter final. They genuinely thought the refs would fall for them wheeling the scrum illegally when they were going backwards faster than they could wheel it. At least the English team didnt try that pathetic rubbish to get out of it and just let us run them over LOL. Degroot has done this to everyone other than the maybe the french and even that went 50/50. He's one of the best props in the world. When he smashes you lot again next weekend maybe you'll figure that out and actually find some props that can scrummage.
The English front row was purposely going backwards on the hit to make the ABs front row overextended, making it look like they were pushing early, the Irish were using the same tactic on SA,
The ABs clearly had the dominant scrum, wouldn't make sense for them to use dirty tactics
English scrum was going backwards all night. How the ref gave them any penalties is beyond understanding.
Furbank looks like our best fullback since prime Mike Brown. What a turnaround from him.
Agree about Spencer, wanted him to play for ages, but he just looked utterly bewildered by it all. Apart from Baxter and Dan, all of the subs seemed to make us worse.
We're at such a disadvantage against the big boys without a top monster tighthead, just praying one of those under 20's can step up soon. Fasogbon, Sela, Halliwell - do you see the answer from one of these 3 Rich?
Best since Foden. Brown was always a mixed bag even when "Prime"
Agree about Spencer. I have wanted him backed for ages but he sucked the life out of our attack when he came on.
Still think Painter and Isoefa-Scot should have been given a chance on this tour. They may not be all court, Sinckler types but they are both huge and can anchor a scrum.
Another youngster to look out for is Harper at Sale. He has a bit of Sheridan about him.
It’s annoying that we suddenly have all these tighthead prospects who are roughly the same age as it usually at around 30 that players peak in that position.
I generally agree with the ratings, but once it was clear that Smith was having a bad day from the tee, the kicking should have gone to Slade.
Tbh i can't blame the loss on Smiths missed kicks. The ABs had a much better bench and in the last quarter that made a big difference in momentum. Beauden Barrett coming on as a finisher tells you the gulf in class
Furbank put some great shots in . Took some tough hits very well aswel .
You can not judge anyone's ability on place kicks! Marcus Smith's attack play was very good - he was the best fly half on the pitch, and if you want to grade upon place kicks then D Mac should be awarded a 3. Finn Smith higher than Marcus Smith?!? Also Marler only scrummaged twice! Stuart was done by the referee who didn't spot DeGroot scrummaging upward and round - he was pulled straight after half time when the referee finally spotted it, probably after being informed at the interval.
He was neither the best 10 on the field. DMacs passing and game kicking both superior and neither did he play well outside goal-kicking.
So, his role as a goal kicker counts for nothing? If so, why did the World Cup winners choose to bring in Handre Pollard, didn't he kick them to victory, including a 50-metre effort to defeat England?
The England substitutions all went a bit wrong. Curry sealing off for the last 3 points and looking undercooked. The lazy no arms tackle, with fatigue not being a factor. Spencer slowing things down when we were chasing the game
I think Curry was unlucky with his penalty call, but yeah the others didn’t have the impact you’d want.
I disagree with your assessment of Stuart because DeGroot did not scrummage legally and it took the ref until half time to see it. I also thought you were a bit lenient with Lawrence who needs to improve when to kick and when to pass.
Should have taken Ted Hill instead of Tom Curry
For an impact sub, totally agree.
Hard disagree. An in form Curry is a shoe in for any test team out there. He's class. Needs the minutes right now
Agree generally with these ratings. Re Tommy Freeman, it's obvious that he should move into his best position in the center's. He has the class and additional pace needed to play outside Lawrence.
I agree, he's a centre for sure
You’re talking like Smiths kicking is bad generally, but it’s actually very good. He just had an off day. I feel he had a very good game otherwise (I’m a fan of his but don’t think he’s the second coming, so not blindly defending him) and think “4 at the most” is too harsh
I do understand and like the new scoring system by the way, but still feel 4 too harsh
Would you be saying that if he missed crucial kicks in a close WC final? This was a big game against a top side and he came up short by a mile.
Officials could have done better. Looking at the subs, we’d have been better keeping Marcus and Mitchell on for the 80… neither looked knackered. Props the problem.
For me, I agree with a lot of what you say (especially about Will Stuart - He is torrid for England), but where I most disagree is Slade. I thought Slade was awful yesterday. Stupid kicks out of hand when on attack, giving away possession in good attacking areas irritated me sooo much. I would like to see Freeman at 13 and Roebuck on the wing.
I think Earl was great (Other than the missed tackle). Key moment for me was when Cunningham-South went off. Curry did very little other than give away silly penalties. I think it is about time that we start Theo Dan. He is just so much better than George. Mitchell and Smith together are a handful.
Ted Hill.................
Finn Smith marked higher than Marcus Smith. Don't be ridiculous. F Smith was absolutely average. England lost due to crap "by the numbers" substitutions. Mitchell and smith needed to stay on if we were going to have any chance of nicking the game late. Spencer in particular was pants.
Itoje had a man of the match game. Line out steal were great probably saved a try.
Should they bench Freeman for the next match and start Sleightholme?
No. Not for me. I’d start freeman again but use Sleightholme/roebuck off the bench earlier. Don’t think it’s the best idea to start Sleightholme with no intl experience at Eden park
Great player but Freeman doesn't have a future as an international winger. He just doesn't have elite level pace.
One miss performance isn’t enough to bench one of our best players for an untested winger. Freeman will be back and better I imagine although giving sleight home 5 mins is insulting I would have made the swap at 65 mins.
Not for me. Freeman is a class player who didn't have his best game. Sleightholme is unproven although obviously massive potential. I'd go the same again, try and get Freeman more touches to build his confidence and sub him earlier if he has a similar mixed game.
Baxter was a huge positive and good to have another prop who can scrummage as well as be good around the park. We can’t rely on Genge at the scrum. Cole was poor in the scrum when he came on. Marcus smith was disappointing. Proves again he’s better suited as an impact sub. Mitchell and Furbank were the stand outs. Martin and Itoje were also very good. Hopefully Fin Smith and Sleightholme get more game time in the next game. The time they were given was not enough
Are you serious? Baxter was good in the scrum but Cole was poor? Literally makes no sense.
A factor that needs to be considered is Robertson had England’s 6N games + the Japan run out to get a sense of England’s setup and tactics. Borthwick basically went into that game blind in terms of knowing what he was facing.
That we nearly won and did so with a few below par performances was a good result. Frustrating, yeah, but I think we’ll see less reliance on box kicking this week and hopefully, get Feyi-Waboso on the ball a bit more.
Itoje must enjoy playing the ABs as he always raises his game when up against the Black. The English team is not chock full of rugby superstars but they have a cohesion and power to their game that shows Borthwick is building a team that is a real handful and will only get better
Bit harsh on Ben Earl. Perofeta looked up, couldn’t believe his luck it wasn’t a back and ran round him.
and Freeman turned a numbered up defence into a 2 on 1 v Earl ... still Earls mistake but had Freeman not blitzed both wide and beyond the play there's a chance he helps with the tackle or at least closes the wide open gate. Less said about Smiths pathetic flap at Perefeta the better too.
Just really wanted to say I appreciate all of your analysis and opinions and in particular what you did here in exaggerating the ratings to make clear points on who you felt performed well vs not so well. As you reference the majority of ratings like this end up exclusively 6's and 7's which does not really express much of a view.
As a kiwi (living in the US) I thought Itoje was absolutely immense, perhaps still contending for best lock (player??) in the world? Also agree Cunningham-South was very destructive as a down-hill ball carrier. Smith I am conflicted on.. as a kiwi I was relieved to see him substituted as to my eye he looked by far the most likely player to break the game in counter-attack or on a fast recycle, but agree goal kicking hugely important in an arm wrestle like this and that is clearly what Borthwick was thinking would get the English home.
Ben Earl tricky one also.. overall played pretty well I thought, and that particular move by StevieP likely beats almost any forward in that moment. That said.. there was not a lot of space and any 7/8 would expect themselves to make that tackle.
Again.. thanks again for your work providing analysis!
No-one else thought Slade made far too many poor decisions in attack? And missed a few tackles too!
Agree. Very poor in attack especially.
Its interesting that those who regualrly slated old England for kicking away great attacking ball have nothing to say now their favourites are doing it.
Yes I agree that Slade had some good poor moments in attack
I would score him as a 6 on that basis
Where did that good come from in my post???
Just read as poor!
4 is a very harsh mark for Marcus Smith. He's part of the reason England were so close to winning the game! Got the attack firing and made some smart tactical kicks. Yes, he missed some kicks but a fly half is more than their goal kicking stats, see George Ford and Owen Farrell in the last two Six Nations campaigns who both kicked poorly at goal by their high standards.
I agree with Stuart, never plays well in an England shirt! Props are a huge issue for us. I think you've done Marcus dirty though! No one kicks well on that ground, dmac didn't kick well, Wilkinson himself struggled at Dunedin, it's a horrible stadium for kickers. Marcus was much better than Finn, IMO, much better.
Finn S had no ball to work with, a mix of AB dominating the last quarter and Spencer ambling at the breakdown then kicking away
Finn has not been given a start and thats huge for a 10, what game has Marcus had a memorable kicking win (NONE) no other international tier 1 would have him first choice if he cannot kick. We also seem to forget he gets steamrolled by bigger players look at him and his lack of cover for the NZ try, and nobody can say he’s even close to McKenzie .
Well, he did score 2 tries when we drew with the ABs in 2022.
Like the scoring method. Furbank was great and he took some huge hits. Marcus looked ok (part from his kicking) but I do think he was targeted which created some space around him for others to attack into. Maybe that channel could be looked at more closely as an opportunity
Thanks for the content mate, I think the rating of 4 for Smith is harsh he did a lot right in attack. Little dummy pass of his always makes defence double guess. Think the leadership team should have stepped up and giving kicking duties to Slade. I know Smith can kick as I’m a Quins fan so I’m sure he can get it sorted out quickly.
Ollie Lawrence deserves a 9,he was smashing us,a good chip in behind to put ABs on the backfoot
Facts speak for speak for themselves . A 10 who has a poor kicking conversion rate is not going to get you a win in a high pressure match with a tight score line. You can argue the finishers did not finish and the penalties conceded were a killer. A great game to watch. We are definitely not getting the best team out on the park. Due to Injuries and selection policy excluding players abroad. I feel sorry for the team as they have had a gruelling season. they do have it in them to win next week . honesty goes a long way.
Totally agree.Why not let Slade take conversions to take some pressure off Smith?
I would’ve give Earl a 3 too, was really poor in this match. The next game we need to put CCS at 8 and reunite the kamikaze twins
Both Smith and McKenzie had a bad day with the boot. Very similar first 5 eights though
A bit harsh on smith he had a very good game that’s gonna happen at times off days at kicking
Marcus was poor from the tee. He will be very aware of that.
He was great to sensational for Quins in the two years leading up to the Premiership victory with a number of crucial conversations from both touch lines
The last two seasons he has not had the same consistency as we saw on Saturday
Nick Evans - work to be done please!
How much prep and game time has Ben Spencer had for Eng? He has great potential but hasn't really had the opportunity to even get a 'warmup' game? A few players did look like rabbits in the headlights, but have great potential..they need to be nurtured to cope psychologically with these situations. Finally how do Eng combat NZ's interpretation of pushing straight (i.e. in and up by the tighthead). Who is the ref for the 2nd test?
Cunnigham south was limited to 2 runs, not rated at all for mine
For those saying he’s being tough on Smith for his goal kicking and that usually he is ‘very good but just has an off day’ are missing the point. These ratings are for THIS MATCH. Winning tests is about fine margins and that may come down to pens or conversions…clutch moments. He screwed up some clutch moments and therefore the assessment is fair.
Thanks, this is exactly what I was trying to do. Sport is fickle, you can have a terrible game but do one thing that wins it or a great game and one thing that loses it.
That was Englands best chance to beat the All Blacks for the first time in NZ since 2003 (21 years). The England team was settled, game harden, motivated. The All Blacks were together for just 10 days, major regime changes. Changes in personnel and coaching, 18 new personnel in management, and the last time they played was as a 14 man team in the world cup final last year. That's the take away, and a pointer t how things will go at Eden Park this coming weekend for anyone that truly understands rugby and how test matches involving NZ go.
Think the bench really dropped the quality of our team in this game.
On will stuart, is he a top tier international? No but jesus he is one of the best in the prem and if they cany dominate him there then he is the best option here, guys wont suddenly come to test rugby and be magically better scrummagers
Furbank 8
Feyi-Wabosi 7
Slade 6
Lawrence 7
Freeman 6
M Smith 5
Mitchell 8
Marler (not on long enough)
George 6
Stuart 5
Itoje 8
Martin 7
Cunningham-South 7
Underhill 8
Earl 7
Subs -
Baxter 7
Dan 7
Cole 5
Curry 6
Spencer 5
F Smith 6
Coles 5
The bench did not make a significant difference and i wonder if CCS should be on the bench to supply that impact and Curry or Aiex Coles should start at 6 . Coles will add a very good line out option.
Coles, Earl, CCS?
Thank theyre pretty fair scores but would probably give smith an extra point. Had he not missed those kicks he’d have probably been at least a 7.
4 for Marcus seems very harsh as why didn't the captain call up Slade to kick instead? Otherwise he looked pretty good elsewhere. Furbank wasn't a 9 for sure good but not that good.
Harsh on Freeman, I don’t think he’s at risk of his place. He got some pretty poor service from Slade and hardly got the chance to show what he can do. When he did get the chance to carry he looked very good and arguably set the platform for the Feyi-Waboso try. He didn’t get the success under the high ball which he normally would tho. He’d be more like a 6, but you’re clearly exaggerating the scores to create more disparity.
Far too harsh on Stuart I think he had a good game was very unlucky to not get more pens given against de groot. I think a little harsh on smith as if Slade was kicking I reckon he is a 6/7. So glad everyone if finally seeing what Furbank is capable of.
These ratings are far too harsh. It was a fantastic performance from England all round. And I think we deserved to win.
@@Jack-qv5ru score reflected how even the two teams were on the day. As an AB supporter it is OK to win ugly every now and again.
Bit harsh on SmithM but test rugby against NZ, in NZ, is harsh... What are we going to do with props? Probably should have taken Trevor Davison in hindsight....
This is a game England should have won. Can feel good about your performance against ABs.
England were good but rusty AB's like Savea (who's been playing soft rugby in Japan), Dalton (who shouldnt even be starting) and Finau who didnt do much at all contributed to quite a few mistakes from 30mins on that let England back into that match. NZ were cruising at the 30min mark and went to sleep + did stupid chit like trying to play out of their half in the last minute of the first half and gave away one of the dumbest penalties in front of the posts iv ever seen a NZ side do. If we sort out our flankers and play guys who should be starting like Blackadder at 7 and Proctor at centre NZ will be very tough to beat. I reckon even without Mounga for the season we can beat the boks twice in Southafrica with this team if the right selections and tactics are made.
Pinging amith for goalkicking is ok but this is a one game sample size… he is one of the better kicks in the prem and slade as a suggestion is oretty nonsensical since he is far from good even at club level. He offered more on attack, finn smith as much as I love him offered nothing after coming on while marcus atleast got us moving.
Understand that Earl gets marked down for the bad miss tackle on Perefeta but again he had a huge game elsewhere and his involvements are off the chart. Top carrier, one of the top defenders, passing pivot on some of our best attack moves, etc
In contrast what on earth did Underhill do to get an above average mark? Almost anonymous (and not in a Richard Hill way) other than clattering DMac once or twice. We either need Earl at 7 or a better option than Underhill.
Smith was also poor on both trys. On the first his position as sweeper is wrong and he does nothing to help Freeman on the Perefeta line break he has the chance to tackle Perefeta and likely stop him getting the pass away. Instead he stands his ground and flaps making no impact. Kicked away some of our best attacking ball too. A 3 would be generous.
He doesn’t play 8 for club
No issue with the format of your scoring, promotes debate which i assume is your intention however as a general point you and other commentators have backed yourselves into a corner with the prop situation, England either move on, take the pain of losing a higher percentage of scrums but develop a new front row or stick with the tried and tested which based on your scoring rational is now a busted flush. The world cup semi final was the high point for the Cole/Marler partnership and i cannot remember Stuart ever setting a benchmark performance in an England shirt so where does this leave England?
Marler is just going through the motions and Stuart seems to get away with playing at 50% effort
George Martin 8. Sam Underhill 8.
Furbank, CCS, Itoje and Marting were all class. Never rated Furbank untill this season. Props are very weak, Marler and Cole are so far past their prime its not even funny! Freeman also doesnt look like an international winger, put Roebuck in!
henry slade was also average
Not very balanced scores
Good morning ! I like the way you score - gives a really good picture of who played well and who didn’t.
I wonder if his misses scores him so harshly in bed
There must be someone in the England team who can kick goals. That shortfall cost us the game!
Smith is usually decent but had an off day from that perspective. Slade is also a good goal kicker.
@barrysheridan9186 Sure, if Smith had landed any one of those missed kicks, England could have won. NZ missed out on points from the tee as well though. It wasn't just the kicks that cost England the game. Giving away silly penalties gave NZ opportunities for cheap points too. I don't like blaming kickers, it just puts more pressure on them. Overall, I think it was a good performance and really could have gone either way.
If England won I wonder how much your ratings would have changed. You're being unfair.
I seem to remember England whining for months about new management coaches and transitioning, yet first game for the ABs in 7 months and they come out and don’t make excuses and win. Should we forget getting beaten by Fiji at home.
I can't believe with all the people that play rugby in England that they can't find 2 props younger than Marlar and Coles there to slow there past there time they don't make much ground and don't score any trys unbelievable
First thing you want from your props is stability at scrum time. After that, anything else is a bonus.
Poor kicking from Marcus but offers so much more. Shame he can’t nail that one aspect of his game. It’s also a shame that the officials missed Barrett cleaning out Marcus directly to the head!! Red all day long!!
All Blacks probably lucky to come away with the win. England look hike a good team. Can't wait for the 2nd test
Over the years I've noticed that match officials shy away from penalising NZ for their dirty tricks, especially in NZ!
I missed that, what time?
M Smith can kick. He had some of the best stats in Europe last season. He had a bad day and kicked terribly yesterday, but so did McKenzie.