The Third Thanx. You got the idea about how you can move out if the surge zone by adding more cam timing. A lot of people just don't undestand this. You got it in just one second. Thanks for listening very well and offering some solutions to getting Bigger than ideal turbos to work.
For a street car that is focused on reliability, I would absolutely used the compressor map. For my street build 3.8 Mustang, Im looking at a pair of GT-2052s because I would be in the meat of the efficiency island at any tune level from 350 crank to 450 crank. My goal at the end of the day is a roughly 350 WHP daily driver that has cheap replacement engine availability and power all over the rev range. On a race application I would tune for the efficiency island and have a scramble setting that would push the setup as far as it can go before burning up shaft bearings.
Love your videos. Please do a Whipple style blower vs turbo on the exact same motor. Also, I would love to see you get your hands on a 7.3l Ford Godzilla. 👍
The funny thing is @6:20 I"m trying to buy a turbo in that range for my truck for this purpose of staying in the efficiency area. I found your video our of frustration of seeing kit after kit of small turbos that are hard on rods to get a little more response. I'm willing to give up a little bit of response for more reliability and not having to rebuild the whole motor to hold 30+psi when I can make the power 20-25 . To me, the decision is which side of the island do I want to be on, that's all.
I do a lot of open track events Road Race style... autox that type of thing. I had a eBay t3t4 .57 trim and it was super responsive. it started making boost at like 2200-2300 RPM but ran out of compressor. eventually I ended up just putting a turnbuckle on the wastegate. Lol it was internally gated. I Ran it like that for a 3-4 months eventually blew a head gasket. Now I use a holset hx35 with a Billet compressor wheel and I'm getting ready to put a smaller exhaust housing on it 10cm vs the 12cm... to get it to spool like that T3-T4 but have a little more Flo capacity and I'm hoping that's what it does. I Dyno the car 12 years ago on a Mustang dyno and made 353tq 323hp not corrected.... those were the uncorrected numbers. whatever that means... one of these days I'll take it back to the dyno. Back then I was young and I told them that I didn't care what the theoretical perfect condition numbers were. I wanted to know what it made right now. Only other mistake I think I've made when it comes to the turbo is it's a 5x5 compressor blade Style and I think it would do better with an 8x8 for a 10 blade.
Seems to me your purpose will have huge impact on your consideration for sizing. If you’re building a drag car and plan on 6k RPM drops and then will only see redline to rpm drop via gear shift (which might be like a 1000-1500 drop). I could see picking an oversized turbo with the intention of running it within the max efficiency island. Although, you’re point about simply making the most power period is super valid. My Thought is building your system with attention to other hardware limitations rather than turbo max flow. On the other hand, if you’re racing on a road course where the revs range widely, you absolutely want a nice wide powerband so that you can power out of turns better and minimize shifts. I’m which case, I could see picking a turbo that lays the island as horizontally as possible and building to run the engine/turbo at a pressure ratio that would fit in the island as much as possible. Wouldn’t that yield the healthiest and most linear power curve?
IDEALLY, one would have a turbo that had a gigantic high efficiency island in the middle of the compressor map, and one could keep one's car in that zone 100 percent of the time. As an alternative, a turbo that stays in the island during 99 percent of its time, and dips into the lower efficiency maybe 1 percent of the time. If efficiency is the only concern, and not throttle lag, then don't we generally go with a turbo that manages to spend the most of its time/hours/fuel in the most efficient zone? (Big ships come to mind.)
Some USA drag racing competitions have limits on turbo size. So you’re going to use max size turbo for you class and max that turbo regardless of efficiency.
Thanks Richard for your times and info. Is there any chance to test the S475 with billet 7 or 11 blades ? How much hp gain will I get from 7 or 11 blades? Thanks again
I use compressor maps to get response and durability. I've got about 20 maps for 30 turbos, superchargers, and centrifugals I like, printed on transparencies. -l'll take an NA chart and compute its volume capabilities, then slap the turbo map onto the screen to look at what's gonna unfold. -- Sometimes, someone brings in a car that's a clean build and wants more power. So, we gotta sit down with them, look at what turbo setups are nice, then come up with a whipple or a procharger setup that keeps their build clean.
Your example is only in consideration to drag racing. In this aspect I agree with you whole heartedly. However in day in day out real world of driving on roads with slow sections and curves we must brake to the apex before accellerating away from said apex. Staying in the most efficient area of the compressor map is essential to good mid rpm power. Not every use of a turbo is in a straight line. Some straight lines have a hard turn at the end where the over all performance is critical. If you chose the biggest baddest turbo your engine could spin, you would face terrible lag where you need the power most. Coming out of the corner. Getting straight line performance is easy once you overcome the lag, Going through a series of varying radius corners will separate the efficiently sized turbo's from the straight line only guys. You will never see an over sized turbo on a F1 car like you would on any drag racing turbo car. My only point here is how well would a drag racing turbo car with lag from hell combined with surge from a worse place than hell drive on typical streets vs a properly sized turbo in the same car on the same streets? In my opinion the differences would be night and day. The compressor maps are not drawn up for the drag racer. They are an attempt to allow the end user to choose a turbo for their application that will make more boost than back pressure. Even if they do not make absolute max power levels they will make acceptable power with an eye to making a set up that will last. Not a candle that burns from both ends.
THE COMPRESSOR MAP IS NOT WHAT IS GOING TO DETERMINE RESPONSE RATE (IN A ROAD RACE CAR), THAT WILL BE THE NA POWER OUTPUT AND HOT SIDE. IF YOU LOOK AT THESE MANY VIDEOS, I RECOMMEND SIZING THE TURBO FOR THE ULTIMATE DESIRED POWER OUTPUT, ALWAYS WITH CONSIDERATION TO REPONSE RATE-A SMALLER TURBO WILL ALWAYS BE MORE FUN AND USEFUL ON A STREET CAR
Hey Richard, I heard you reply to someone asking about an 88mm turbo off a Detriot Diesel. If it’s what I’m think of...it’s like a Garrett TV8511. This might not seem to mean much, but if I remember correctly (the models are fuzzy) a Precision PT88 (and China clones) use a TV75 turbine and CHRA, with a TV85 compressor wheel and backing plate with a “H” compressor cover (Holset). Most of the “performance” turbos started as diesel turbos or a combination of parts from several diesel turbos.
I love compressor maps, I like them fat and wide at the PR that I want. It's all down to your application, but I always chose my turbo based on the desired max rpm, desired bhp and PR required to make desired bhp. Good turbo sizing makes a difference IMO. I try to answer questions like at what rpm do I want to make full boost without surge, and what efficiency will I see at max rpm, and at what rpm do I lose positive crossover pressure from inlet to exhaust?. My applications are street cars on gasoline, different applications have different requirements.
I think you made a good case for using a compressor map to select a turbo. If the chinese knock-off turbo doesn't come with a compressor map, you really don't know where you are at, except that somebody says it's a 700HP turbo, or a 1,000 HP turbo.
You can port the manifold if you are very picky. David vizard has a video on this on a SBC tunnel ram. Witch might help helping cylinders from robbing each other.
I looked at compressor maps when selecting my turbo, but I was A. only just getting into turbo stuff, and B. that project is of course still on jackstands. Engine in question is a AMC 4.0l and I figure with a good cam and mild porting I could make around 220-250 crank hp, so to get to my goal of 600 wheel I'll need a 3ish:1 pressure ratio. So I chose a S366, which others have used to push the 4.0l to similar power levels (although stroked rather than aggressively cammed). If it makes more I'd be really stoked! But first I need to finish the car (rust repair, ugh).
@@krakhedd This build is going in a stick shift Eagle for the street. So I'm going to run a big cam, I've got forged rods, stock pistons with ring gap, and will do some mild porting on the head. I was going to run microsquirt but I think I may change plans to speeduino for more functionality and support of the later jeep trigger pattern. I don't like aftermarket trigger wheels and would like to keep as many parts OEM as possible.
So how can i choose hot side is IT better to have big housing And small wheel or big wheel And small housing, what would be better+ lets Say i upgrade compressor wheel Will IT reduce my egts on same hot side+ can you port exhoust housing so much u change A/R Ratio?
This turbo stuff is fun, cheap easy crazy power. The limit seems to be the force pressing the piston down and it never coming back up. Increasing spark energy seems just as important
If you go with long and narrow, the engine will have more low-end torque and exhaust gas energy, and spin up faster. If you already have a small turbo that spins up quickly, then short, fat runners will help at higher RPM.
I wonder if the compressor maps are part of the reason that all of the factory turbos could be turned up a bit back in the day, they built the engines and turbos to be Max efficiency, which left compressor on the table for turning up the boost on a stock turbo motor back in the 90s and 2000s
Hey Richard I have an idea for you, what about testing different engine cleaners on very high mileage vehicles like soccer mom used vehicles. You know the type, vans and especially suburban, Yukon's, escalades and alike. A lot of used SUV's have super high miles, and does products like Amsoil, (which I sell) Sea foam and Marvelous Mystery Oil clean these engine inners without causing other high priced engine problems? I have had a few high mileage used Cadillac's with the terrible northstar motors, a 2011 BMW and I drove over 600 miles each week for work. I put Sea foam in the gas tanks and in the engine. I never suffered any ill affects. Actually got better gas mileage. My son just bought a 2005 chevy truck and Yukon. both with well over 200k miles on the Yukon and over 300K on the chevy 1500. Both vehicles have the 5.3. My son is afraid to hurt the engines by loosening up crap on the inside and causing oiling in the engines. It's too late for the chevy straight 6, but maybe next time you get another project you think of doing a cleaner in the crank case for about 600 miles before taking it apart. Scott in Oregon
In my experience, peak efficiency is where your peak TQ will be. But you don't pick a turbo based on efficiency, you pick one so that it is properly sized and totally on the island. Too big and you are living off the left side in lag/surgeville. Too small, you run out of flow, and you are off to the right only making heat. And when you talk about turning up the boost, you are just moving north on the island. If the turbo is properly sized, a higher PR isn't a problem. At least for gasoline setups.
You might be cruising down the road in boost if you're in a four-wheel drive 79 Chevy truck on a 80 mph Highway but it would have to be a vehicle with terrible aerodynamics.
I look at compressor map. I set 60% efficiency as my imaginary max output. For example if my max pressure ratio of 2.5 crosses 60% at 60lbs/hr then it’s a 600hp (for me). Even if manufacture states 650hp. So if you planned 2.5pr, 60% & 60lbs/hr = 600hp but you actually did 2.5pr and 500hp then you’re closer to 50lbs/hr & 68%(? Or whatever map says). You can get smaller 500hp turbo or bigger cam that flows 60lbs/hr (at 2.5pr)
@@richardholdener1727 thank you and keep up the great work. I tell people about you all the time. But it was before TH-cam lol. From reading your books and articles
I choose them by compressor map. But the turbo must be able to flow lbs per minute capacity I need for HP goal. Hence I choose Borg Warner over Garrett or anyone else. Much wider compressor map than anyone else. Garrett turbo are very thin and tall.
That's the thing that people don't understand too. Some turbos are designed for gasoline engines with a wide RPM range and a low(er) boost requirement so the maps are wide and not as tall (potato shaped). Diesels have a narrow RPM range and a high boost requirement so the compressor map is narrow and tall (yam shaped).
I have built a mustang. Ly6 for power, braked transmission adj rear bars 4500 converter 410 gears. The car is fun. Now I am going to purchase a turbo. I'm thinking an s480 Its a divided t6 i.32 ar e85. I have smaller turban wheel and 1.2 2.3 a1.24 or a 1.53. For mostly street driving, I don't want sog on spool. My converter will flash 55.00 what do you suggest
@@richardholdener1727 we mostly street driv. I'm thinking s480 with t6 and1.32 ex a.r. I'm sorry my converter will flash to 4500.will that turbo come up on boost to your taste, I can order one with a 1.25 ar
Richard, thanx Two Times. FIRST so much for taking the time to discuss with all of us the naturally aspirated cam ming helps big turbo performance. Thanks Secondly:- also for the Bonneville Mini 970 Turbo with BMW motor bike head. Here is Graeme Reid discussing the Gary and Nelson Hartly car. Graeme is a Scott in Costa Mesa since 1975. As a Mini Turbofigure head, he's a lot of fun . The video is here "th-cam.com/video/baB9CjOmwWc/w-d-xo.html".
Hello Richard first off thankyou for all the videos i enjoyed the scatpack vs the boss was really interesting. Is it possible to answer one of my question please. I have got a ford 351c with 2v heads msd distributor mild cam and stock bottom end , a very mild engine. Can you tel me what oil pressure at idle (cold ) is too high and why ? The reason is i have 75 psi of oil pressure running shell helix hx5 15w40. The motor is about 4000 miles old and has always had such high pressure. I have had a lot of conflicting advice saying its it's way to high or nope its fine dont worry. I have used two gauges to dubble check my resluts and i even took out the motor and stripped it to recheck any and all bearing clearances but stil i have such a high pressure. Thankyou
Mr Holdener! Looks like a 5.3 will most likely be my choice. They are more affordable than the 6.0. Would 0823 Rec Port Heads work on a 5.3? Would that 469-11 Cam and Springs work?
Those heads won't work, intake valves are too big. Cathedral is a better choice anyways. That cam is his "go to" for a lot of LS stuff so it'll fit. Find a video where he uses it in a 5.3 and see if that's the power curve you want though. Should be a top end cam on that displacement iirc
just injecting air directly after the exhaust valves would increase in-exhaust-tract combustion and turbo energy, but evidently no one does that. However, you want a carburizing flame, not an oxidizing flame for your turbo so you don't start eating the turbo up. A flame with excess, unburnt oxygen turns it into a cutting torch.
I would like to see a Big Bang 5.3 on 93 octane no meth or anything just 93 as I do not have e85 around me and wanna see how much power I can go with what timing and what boost with no knock
Your throttle blades likely limit flow to the point even if there is boost in front of the throttle blades you likely would never see positive pressure in the intake manifold.
@@richardholdener1727 I guess I didn't think to say but I was talking on a blow thru setup the throttle blades being barely open at low load/speed would cause so much pressure drop that you would never see boost after them even if you had a few pounds on the front side. The throttle blades have to be open enough that the intake valves and ports start to become a restriction to build back pressure in the manifold to ever register boost.
Not gonna happen with an LS. Best bet is the gen 5 "LT" stuff with VVT a lot more compression and DI. But he's mentioned a lot how the dyno isn't good at being loaded down low, below ~2000 rpm
Sinister Silverado your Saab was in boost at cruise at 70 because of many factors the engine it self makes very little power at 70 mph your fighting aero dynamics and drag weight and much more common sense here
An exhaust cutout that allows you to just "turn off" the turbo for cruising would be cool. No use choking the engine ehxaust off when you aren't using the turbo.
I’m I bit disappointed on your stance with turbo maps. I understand your position from a dyno guy and drag racer, but any other application that requires endurance can absolutely benefit from running a turbo in its most efficient range based off a map. For instance, in road racing, where you can be running at high rpm for extended amounts of time, where the extra safety padding of e85 is simply not practical to run; the high intake temps of running a turbo on the choke line like you are saying can defiantly cause drawbacks.
Yeah, I don't understand his position. It's almost like he wants to keep it a mystery. The arithmetic needed is sub-high school so anybody can find out what turbo out there is the best match. But the biggest challenge is the installation and tuning. Nobody on TH-cam can help you with that.
@@2lotusman851 I love what Richard does, but he seems really big on empirical evidence and really small on theory. Without the theory, how could I size a turbo to an application without knowing what already works?
Those are iron 317s basically so I wouldn't hold my breath for a test. Results would be nearly identical between the two and he done lots of tests with 317s
@@richardholdener1727 what do you think would be the best combination with my 700R non-electronic transmission 308 rear gear 2 wheel drive 1985 Chevrolet Suburban the combination I would like to have is fuel mileage the truck would also pull cars would be the heaviest thing it would pull and tow I saw your videos on the 4.8 a seems like a 4.8 would have a lot of low-end torque and horsepower compared to the stock engine especially if I put a little bit of boost to it. But I'm trying to go as cheap as possible the most bang for my buck and the most fuel mileage I can get
The Third Thanx. You got the idea about how you can move out if the surge zone by adding more cam timing. A lot of people just don't undestand this. You got it in just one second. Thanks for listening very well and offering some solutions to getting Bigger than ideal turbos to work.
add na power
For a street car that is focused on reliability, I would absolutely used the compressor map. For my street build 3.8 Mustang, Im looking at a pair of GT-2052s because I would be in the meat of the efficiency island at any tune level from 350 crank to 450 crank. My goal at the end of the day is a roughly 350 WHP daily driver that has cheap replacement engine availability and power all over the rev range.
On a race application I would tune for the efficiency island and have a scramble setting that would push the setup as far as it can go before burning up shaft bearings.
Awesome ! Congratulations on 160,000 sir ! That's fantastic
Awesome thank you!
Also depending how you built the engine. Low compression vs high compression turbo maps are very important!
The 5.3 has a Stock Bottom end. I just want a good combo for street driving and some Racing and possibly Nos system.
Always a wealth of knowledge!
Thanks for using your tools and experience to help educate the masses.
Love your videos. Please do a Whipple style blower vs turbo on the exact same motor. Also, I would love to see you get your hands on a 7.3l Ford Godzilla. 👍
You are brilliant.
The funny thing is @6:20 I"m trying to buy a turbo in that range for my truck for this purpose of staying in the efficiency area. I found your video our of frustration of seeing kit after kit of small turbos that are hard on rods to get a little more response. I'm willing to give up a little bit of response for more reliability and not having to rebuild the whole motor to hold 30+psi when I can make the power 20-25 . To me, the decision is which side of the island do I want to be on, that's all.
I do a lot of open track events Road Race style... autox that type of thing. I had a eBay t3t4 .57 trim and it was super responsive. it started making boost at like 2200-2300 RPM but ran out of compressor. eventually I ended up just putting a turnbuckle on the wastegate. Lol it was internally gated. I Ran it like that for a 3-4 months eventually blew a head gasket. Now I use a holset hx35 with a Billet compressor wheel and I'm getting ready to put a smaller exhaust housing on it 10cm vs the 12cm... to get it to spool like that T3-T4 but have a little more Flo capacity and I'm hoping that's what it does. I Dyno the car 12 years ago on a Mustang dyno and made 353tq 323hp not corrected.... those were the uncorrected numbers. whatever that means... one of these days I'll take it back to the dyno. Back then I was young and I told them that I didn't care what the theoretical perfect condition numbers were. I wanted to know what it made right now. Only other mistake I think I've made when it comes to the turbo is it's a 5x5 compressor blade Style and I think it would do better with an 8x8 for a 10 blade.
I've noticed guys picked just enough turbo like you said especially in drag racing. It goes back to build a motor for the street vs the track.
Answer///. Boost at cruise with diesel truck when oversized tires or towing.
Seems to me your purpose will have huge impact on your consideration for sizing. If you’re building a drag car and plan on 6k RPM drops and then will only see redline to rpm drop via gear shift (which might be like a 1000-1500 drop). I could see picking an oversized turbo with the intention of running it within the max efficiency island. Although, you’re point about simply making the most power period is super valid. My
Thought is building your system with attention to other hardware limitations rather than turbo max flow.
On the other hand, if you’re racing on a road course where the revs range widely, you absolutely want a nice wide powerband so that you can power out of turns better and minimize shifts. I’m which case, I could see picking a turbo that lays the island as horizontally as possible and building to run the engine/turbo at a pressure ratio that would fit in the island as much as possible. Wouldn’t that yield the healthiest and most linear power curve?
IDEALLY, one would have a turbo that had a gigantic high efficiency island in the middle of the compressor map, and one could keep one's car in that zone 100 percent of the time.
As an alternative, a turbo that stays in the island during 99 percent of its time, and dips into the lower efficiency maybe 1 percent of the time.
If efficiency is the only concern, and not throttle lag, then don't we generally go with a turbo that manages to spend the most of its time/hours/fuel in the most efficient zone? (Big ships come to mind.)
This sounds like something that would be very useful for selecting compound turbos 🧐🧐🧐
Billet wheels generally have smaller hubs which does increase flow some ...
Some USA drag racing competitions have limits on turbo size. So you’re going to use max size turbo for you class and max that turbo regardless of efficiency.
Thanks Richard for your times and info. Is there any chance to test the S475 with billet 7 or 11 blades ? How much hp gain will I get from 7 or 11 blades?
Thanks again
Richard's a busy man now, thought he went on vacation
I use compressor maps to get response and durability. I've got about 20 maps for 30 turbos, superchargers, and centrifugals I like, printed on transparencies.
-l'll take an NA chart and compute its volume capabilities, then slap the turbo map onto the screen to look at what's gonna unfold.
-- Sometimes, someone brings in a car that's a clean build and wants more power. So, we gotta sit down with them, look at what turbo setups are nice, then come up with a whipple or a procharger setup that keeps their build clean.
Your example is only in consideration to drag racing. In this aspect I agree with you whole heartedly. However in day in day out real world of driving on roads with slow sections and curves we must brake to the apex before accellerating away from said apex. Staying in the most efficient area of the compressor map is essential to good mid rpm power. Not every use of a turbo is in a straight line. Some straight lines have a hard turn at the end where the over all performance is critical. If you chose the biggest baddest turbo your engine could spin, you would face terrible lag where you need the power most. Coming out of the corner. Getting straight line performance is easy once you overcome the lag, Going through a series of varying radius corners will separate the efficiently sized turbo's from the straight line only guys. You will never see an over sized turbo on a F1 car like you would on any drag racing turbo car. My only point here is how well would a drag racing turbo car with lag from hell combined with surge from a worse place than hell drive on typical streets vs a properly sized turbo in the same car on the same streets? In my opinion the differences would be night and day. The compressor maps are not drawn up for the drag racer. They are an attempt to allow the end user to choose a turbo for their application that will make more boost than back pressure. Even if they do not make absolute max power levels they will make acceptable power with an eye to making a set up that will last. Not a candle that burns from both ends.
THE COMPRESSOR MAP IS NOT WHAT IS GOING TO DETERMINE RESPONSE RATE (IN A ROAD RACE CAR), THAT WILL BE THE NA POWER OUTPUT AND HOT SIDE. IF YOU LOOK AT THESE MANY VIDEOS, I RECOMMEND SIZING THE TURBO FOR THE ULTIMATE DESIRED POWER OUTPUT, ALWAYS WITH CONSIDERATION TO REPONSE RATE-A SMALLER TURBO WILL ALWAYS BE MORE FUN AND USEFUL ON A STREET CAR
A lot of math is involved in using compressor maps. This is why I think people can't/don't use them....
Not really. Buy a book on turbos. They all have instructions on how to do it. Use simple arithmetic.
Hey Richard, I heard you reply to someone asking about an 88mm turbo off a Detriot Diesel. If it’s what I’m think of...it’s like a Garrett TV8511. This might not seem to mean much, but if I remember correctly (the models are fuzzy) a Precision PT88 (and China clones) use a TV75 turbine and CHRA, with a TV85 compressor wheel and backing plate with a “H” compressor cover (Holset). Most of the “performance” turbos started as diesel turbos or a combination of parts from several diesel turbos.
I love compressor maps, I like them fat and wide at the PR that I want. It's all down to your application, but I always chose my turbo based on the desired max rpm, desired bhp and PR required to make desired bhp. Good turbo sizing makes a difference IMO. I try to answer questions like at what rpm do I want to make full boost without surge, and what efficiency will I see at max rpm, and at what rpm do I lose positive crossover pressure from inlet to exhaust?. My applications are street cars on gasoline, different applications have different requirements.
I like the thinking you have there
I think you made a good case for using a compressor map to select a turbo.
If the chinese knock-off turbo doesn't come with a compressor map, you really don't know where you are at, except that somebody says it's a 700HP turbo, or a 1,000 HP turbo.
You can port the manifold if you are very picky. David vizard has a video on this on a SBC tunnel ram. Witch might help helping cylinders from robbing each other.
I looked at compressor maps when selecting my turbo, but I was A. only just getting into turbo stuff, and B. that project is of course still on jackstands. Engine in question is a AMC 4.0l and I figure with a good cam and mild porting I could make around 220-250 crank hp, so to get to my goal of 600 wheel I'll need a 3ish:1 pressure ratio. So I chose a S366, which others have used to push the 4.0l to similar power levels (although stroked rather than aggressively cammed). If it makes more I'd be really stoked! But first I need to finish the car (rust repair, ugh).
I wanted a turbo stroker w/ methanol and standalone tuning back when I had my last XJ
@@krakhedd This build is going in a stick shift Eagle for the street. So I'm going to run a big cam, I've got forged rods, stock pistons with ring gap, and will do some mild porting on the head. I was going to run microsquirt but I think I may change plans to speeduino for more functionality and support of the later jeep trigger pattern. I don't like aftermarket trigger wheels and would like to keep as many parts OEM as possible.
Also the guy with the 1.2L wanting 125hp sounds like a stock Chevy Cruze turbo would be perfect
So how can i choose hot side is IT better to have big housing And small wheel or big wheel And small housing, what would be better+ lets Say i upgrade compressor wheel Will IT reduce my egts on same hot side+ can you port exhoust housing so much u change A/R Ratio?
A compressor map would be fantastic for something like a boat where the motor and turbo will be under a high load but not wot
How efficient is a centrifugal supercharger?
You want to run more efficiently when on the street on 91 and turn it up at the track on e85 or race gas
This turbo stuff is fun, cheap easy crazy power.
The limit seems to be the force pressing the piston down and it never coming back up.
Increasing spark energy seems just as important
What?
@@chipcurrey653 Too much pressure
Hahahaha--Or never coming back up in one piece!
Is this the Ken M of turbo comments?
@@chipcurrey653 Quite possibly, old chap, who is Ken M?
Where does the hot side fall into play
Have you ever discussed Ceramic bearing, Steel ball bearing vs bushing turbo? How beneficial is water cooling the center bearing?
ONLY FOR LONGEVITY LIKELY
Yeahhhhhh We're Live!
Do you think you could do a dedicated video on how to select and compare turbos and intercoolers for a turbo setup?
look at the desired power first-then choose
If low end spooling an "oversized" turbo is a big deal to you I hear spool valves can help. It's basically a poor man's veritable vain turbine.
Would you recommend short wide or long narrow runners for intake manifold for turbocharged setup?
If you go with long and narrow, the engine will have more low-end torque and exhaust gas energy, and spin up faster. If you already have a small turbo that spins up quickly, then short, fat runners will help at higher RPM.
I wonder if the compressor maps are part of the reason that all of the factory turbos could be turned up a bit back in the day, they built the engines and turbos to be Max efficiency, which left compressor on the table for turning up the boost on a stock turbo motor back in the 90s and 2000s
oem is never going to push their turbos to the limit they need their engines to live for 200k
Richard??!! Where aaaarrrrreeee yoooouuuuuuuuu?????
Hey Richard I have an idea for you, what about testing different engine cleaners on very high mileage vehicles like soccer mom used vehicles. You know the type, vans and especially suburban, Yukon's, escalades and alike. A lot of used SUV's have super high miles, and does products like Amsoil, (which I sell) Sea foam and Marvelous Mystery Oil clean these engine inners without causing other high priced engine problems? I have had a few high mileage used Cadillac's with the terrible northstar motors, a 2011 BMW and I drove over 600 miles each week for work. I put Sea foam in the gas tanks and in the engine. I never suffered any ill affects. Actually got better gas mileage. My son just bought a 2005 chevy truck and Yukon. both with well over 200k miles on the Yukon and over 300K on the chevy 1500. Both vehicles have the 5.3. My son is afraid to hurt the engines by loosening up crap on the inside and causing oiling in the engines. It's too late for the chevy straight 6, but maybe next time you get another project you think of doing a cleaner in the crank case for about 600 miles before taking it apart. Scott in Oregon
Just do it. Use as instructed and you'll be fine
Besides the surge line, the compressor has next to nothing to do with how quickly it spools... Thats all about the hot side. Or am i wrong?
its mostly on the hot side-but compressor wheel weight and design also help determine response
In my experience, peak efficiency is where your peak TQ will be. But you don't pick a turbo based on efficiency, you pick one so that it is properly sized and totally on the island. Too big and you are living off the left side in lag/surgeville. Too small, you run out of flow, and you are off to the right only making heat. And when you talk about turning up the boost, you are just moving north on the island. If the turbo is properly sized, a higher PR isn't a problem. At least for gasoline setups.
You might be cruising down the road in boost if you're in a four-wheel drive 79 Chevy truck on a 80 mph Highway but it would have to be a vehicle with terrible aerodynamics.
I look at compressor map. I set 60% efficiency as my imaginary max output. For example if my max pressure ratio of 2.5 crosses 60% at 60lbs/hr then it’s a 600hp (for me). Even if manufacture states 650hp. So if you planned 2.5pr, 60% & 60lbs/hr = 600hp but you actually did 2.5pr and 500hp then you’re closer to 50lbs/hr & 68%(? Or whatever map says). You can get smaller 500hp turbo or bigger cam that flows 60lbs/hr (at 2.5pr)
I’m only explaining what I do... not trying to educate anyone. Richard already knows how cams and compressor maps work.
The compound turbo guys are the only ones I can think of that use them
Wow, Richard are you on holidays? We miss your broadcasts pal!
I'm with you! I hope all is OK!
I'm a bit concerned also
Hello Richard? Is this thing on?
Maybe for a marine application ?
Richard I’m building a 5.4 navigator motor. I have a 80mm t4 turbo with a .96 ar. Will the back pressure be to much for the displacement.
it will work
@@richardholdener1727 thank you and keep up the great work. I tell people about you all the time. But it was before TH-cam lol. From reading your books and articles
I choose them by compressor map.
But the turbo must be able to flow lbs per minute capacity I need for HP goal.
Hence I choose Borg Warner over Garrett or anyone else.
Much wider compressor map than anyone else.
Garrett turbo are very thin and tall.
That's the thing that people don't understand too. Some turbos are designed for gasoline engines with a wide RPM range and a low(er) boost requirement so the maps are wide and not as tall (potato shaped). Diesels have a narrow RPM range and a high boost requirement so the compressor map is narrow and tall (yam shaped).
I have built a mustang. Ly6 for power, braked transmission adj rear bars 4500 converter 410 gears. The car is fun. Now I am going to purchase a turbo. I'm thinking an s480
Its a divided t6 i.32 ar e85. I have smaller turban wheel and 1.2 2.3 a1.24 or a 1.53. For mostly street driving, I don't want sog on spool. My converter will flash 55.00 what do you suggest
what power level do you want
@@richardholdener1727 we mostly street driv. I'm thinking s480 with t6 and1.32 ex a.r. I'm sorry my converter will flash to 4500.will that turbo come up on boost to your taste, I can order one with a 1.25 ar
Richard, thanx Two Times. FIRST so much for taking the time to discuss with all of us the naturally aspirated cam ming helps big turbo performance. Thanks Secondly:- also for the Bonneville Mini 970 Turbo with BMW motor bike head. Here is Graeme Reid discussing the Gary and Nelson Hartly car. Graeme is a Scott in Costa Mesa since 1975. As a Mini Turbofigure head, he's a lot of fun . The video is here "th-cam.com/video/baB9CjOmwWc/w-d-xo.html".
Hello Richard first off thankyou for all the videos i enjoyed the scatpack vs the boss was really interesting. Is it possible to answer one of my question please. I have got a ford 351c with 2v heads msd distributor mild cam and stock bottom end , a very mild engine. Can you tel me what oil pressure at idle (cold ) is too high and why ? The reason is i have 75 psi of oil pressure running shell helix hx5 15w40. The motor is about 4000 miles old and has always had such high pressure. I have had a lot of conflicting advice saying its it's way to high or nope its fine dont worry.
I have used two gauges to dubble check my resluts and i even took out the motor and stripped it to recheck any and all bearing clearances but stil i have such a high pressure.
Thankyou
what is it all wot at 5500 rpm?
@@richardholdener1727 Hi no this is at cold idle when shes hot the it will drop to 50 psi
No new videos? What happened?
What size ink injectors do you think I should run 351 Windsor with 63 mm twin turbos
what power level
@@richardholdener1727 40 over stock bottom end e303 cam 63 cc chamber aluminum heads
Transmission limitations ...
It's a big deal. I don't wanna run a Powerglide.
Richard where are you?
Going through withdrawal....
How about putting 2 7875s on a healthy 6 liter. Too soft??
that can support 2000 hp
Mr Holdener! Looks like a 5.3 will most likely be my choice. They are more affordable than the 6.0. Would 0823 Rec Port Heads work on a 5.3? Would that 469-11 Cam and Springs work?
Those heads won't work, intake valves are too big. Cathedral is a better choice anyways. That cam is his "go to" for a lot of LS stuff so it'll fit. Find a video where he uses it in a 5.3 and see if that's the power curve you want though. Should be a top end cam on that displacement iirc
@@cc23001 Thank you Sir!👌🏿
What's a good Horsepower Head for a 5.3?
stock ported heads or tfs 205 heads are the best choice
@@richardholdener1727 Thank you Mr Holdener! Just saw your 5.3 500 Horsepower Mod. 706 Heads or Trick Flow 205 may the way to go.👌🏿
Just bought a Set of 706 Heads. Now I have to buy that fast LXSRT Intake.
Can you do a video on how to choose blow off valve and Waste gate
BOV is usually fitment and flow
I think a propane generator would do well with keeping the turbo in the most efficient area of the map. This would save fuel/time.
just injecting air directly after the exhaust valves would increase in-exhaust-tract combustion and turbo energy, but evidently no one does that.
However, you want a carburizing flame, not an oxidizing flame for your turbo so you don't start eating the turbo up. A flame with excess, unburnt oxygen turns it into a cutting torch.
I would like to see a Big Bang 5.3 on 93 octane no meth or anything just 93 as I do not have e85 around me and wanna see how much power I can go with what timing and what boost with no knock
max power on pump gas? no thnx
I just look to the right and see what the max air is and where it happens...thats all i care about..
E.g. max lb/air at what BAR/psi
Your throttle blades likely limit flow to the point even if there is boost in front of the throttle blades you likely would never see positive pressure in the intake manifold.
limit flow?
@@richardholdener1727 I guess I didn't think to say but I was talking on a blow thru setup the throttle blades being barely open at low load/speed would cause so much pressure drop that you would never see boost after them even if you had a few pounds on the front side. The throttle blades have to be open enough that the intake valves and ports start to become a restriction to build back pressure in the manifold to ever register boost.
That is patently false unless you are speaking only of when the throttles are firmly shut or almost completely closed.
You good Richard?
Good question? What happened?
Hey Richard do you have a email I could send you some questions at?
killerbe16@aol.com
Have you ever heard of a guy in SF who builds fordolets he calls them he puts Cleveland heads on a small block chevy?
no sir
Hi ! Can you make a video on 5.3 that makes big torque from idle?
Not gonna happen with an LS. Best bet is the gen 5 "LT" stuff with VVT a lot more compression and DI. But he's mentioned a lot how the dyno isn't good at being loaded down low, below ~2000 rpm
@@cc23001 Strange, the dyno? Anyone done this before: Turbo's for low end torque on LS?
you want big torque below 2000 rpm?
@@richardholdener1727 Yes!
Sinister Silverado your Saab was in boost at cruise at 70 because of many factors the engine it self makes very little power at 70 mph your fighting aero dynamics and drag weight and much more common sense here
Can you imagine the fuel economy at cruise if your running boost, 😂 only a turbo diesel has boost at cruise,
An exhaust cutout that allows you to just "turn off" the turbo for cruising would be cool. No use choking the engine ehxaust off when you aren't using the turbo.
I’m I bit disappointed on your stance with turbo maps. I understand your position from a dyno guy and drag racer, but any other application that requires endurance can absolutely benefit from running a turbo in its most efficient range based off a map. For instance, in road racing, where you can be running at high rpm for extended amounts of time, where the extra safety padding of e85 is simply not practical to run; the high intake temps of running a turbo on the choke line like you are saying can defiantly cause drawbacks.
Yeah, I don't understand his position. It's almost like he wants to keep it a mystery.
The arithmetic needed is sub-high school so anybody can find out what turbo out there is the best match.
But the biggest challenge is the installation and tuning. Nobody on TH-cam can help you with that.
@@2lotusman851 I love what Richard does, but he seems really big on empirical evidence and really small on theory. Without the theory, how could I size a turbo to an application without knowing what already works?
the compressor map video should address these questions
really your not trying to keep it in pe you just want to find the best compromise
Can you please do a test with the lq4 with 873 heads
Those are iron 317s basically so I wouldn't hold my breath for a test. Results would be nearly identical between the two and he done lots of tests with 317s
Iron heads?
Yes I have a 2000 6.0 and it has 873 iron heads good or bad opinions
Do you answer your messages on Facebook
yes
@@richardholdener1727 what do you think would be the best combination with my 700R non-electronic transmission 308 rear gear 2 wheel drive 1985 Chevrolet Suburban the combination I would like to have is fuel mileage the truck would also pull cars would be the heaviest thing it would pull and tow I saw your videos on the 4.8 a seems like a 4.8 would have a lot of low-end torque and horsepower compared to the stock engine especially if I put a little bit of boost to it. But I'm trying to go as cheap as possible the most bang for my buck and the most fuel mileage I can get
Americans can’t understand simple things. The turbo map isn’t the problem. User error is
is your comment that ALL Americans can't understand compressor maps? That's plain foolishness!
@@richardholdener1727 ok Richard. You said it not me . Seems the aussies have a good handle on it though.