Mr Justin Clark. I would like to tell you that having had an OP hysteroscopy it has changed me, my mental state. I suffer from Anxiety, depression, paranoia. I'm now terrified of anything NHS related. It ruined my life.
I had this procedure and it was excruciating pain. Never again. Now I am likely to have another because I have a huge lump in my abdomen and I am terrified. I would have to be given a GA. Sheer agony .
I went through this procedure under GA 13yrs ago - not by request but because I wasn't given a choice. I was told hysteroscopy was always performed under GA because it carries (to quote the gynae nurse) 'a high risk of perforation'. I was "reassured" that at least I'd already be anaesthetised if that happened & I needed emergency surgery to repair any damage. The risks were fully discussed with me & noted on a consent form that I had to sign whereas, now, an increasing number of women seem to be blindsided into going through "trial by OPH" - or, as one friend very recently remarked about the GIRFT initiative, "getting away with it first time".
I had a hysteroscopy to remove polyps from my womb a few days ago, I was told it would be done via general anaesthetic because it can be a painful experience. All of the staff were absolutely amazing and so far recovery has been going ok. I don’t think, to be honest, a procedure like this should be done under a local.
Dear Dr Busby, thank you for this interview I would like to share my story (so far) of Hysteroscopy. I had a hysteroscopy in 2015 to retrieve a missing coil. I had no idea how painful the procedure would be until it started, only then, when in considerable pain, was I offered a LA. I am now PM & even a smear test is very painful. At my most recent smear test the nurse could not see my coil. I had to attend a local SH clinic to see a specialist consultant who assured me with their "special tool" they are 95% successful in retrieving coils. Due to my previous experience I asked for a LA which was given, but not offered, during the explanation of the procedure. The procedure was painful but not unbearable (after the LA), it was unsuccessful. I was then referred to the local hospital for a hysteroscopy where I had, again, to request a LA. Despite the LA ,I can only describe the procedure as excruciatingly painful & also unsuccessful as it had to be stopped. To explain what it was like, it felt like a red hot instrument covered in glass shards was attempting access my uterus. The doctor & nursing staff were very kind and this made the horrible situation a little better. I am now waiting for retrieval under GA. IMHO, this procedure should never be attempted in OP for PM women due to the stiffening & narrowing of the cervix after menopause. I would also like to take issue with Prof Clark's comments regarding scaring women. Women would be much assured about this procedure if they knew that adequate pain relief was available.
Listening to this Justin kept going back to the trials and 'evidence' and really seems against anything other than paracetamol and/or ibuprofen. Sedation or gas and air never offered. Assumed all ok as I'd given birth naturally ( with gas and air and pethidine!). No recovery room or time. The assault/abuse you felt hits after you leave! You just want to.leave and get away from the place that caused do.much pain. Biopsy was horrendous. Thank you Gail for challenging this and for the clear headedness of Helgi for saying gynae could provide sedation like endoscopy ( which I've recd). Finally let's stop saying it's just like cramps. This can vary widely from woman to woman and male gynae have no idea how this feels!
I had a similar experience, I had a surprise biopsy which I was coerced into. The registrar pushed me into having it although I had been booked to have it under general because I mentioned I had one before but if he let me finish I would have said it had to be stopped because I screamed the place down. I was in utter shock after he plonked to strips of my womb down in front of me in vials, I wasn't informed of my rights or the risks or offered pain relief and I had told him beforehand I had cycled there and I live 5 miles away from the hospital up a mountain and had to limp home with the bike in pain and shock. These practices are utterly disgusting and they would never put a man through an impromptu ordeal like this without any kind of pain relief or anaesthesia it's disgusting and it's the fault of Justin who decides the policy for the country. I vote we make Justin have a colonoscopy or prostate biopsy without pain relief then see how he feels about it.
Why didn’t Prof Justin Clark publish the full range of pain scores? Average pain scores are meaningless to a patients like me . Also why are GIRFT setting targets of 90% of diagnostic in OPH.
Why do doctors like to torture women? Don't tell me you don't, because I was tortured with 5 people in the room and nobody did a damn thing to help. I know for a 100% fact that men aren't made to go through torturous procedures because they would use the violence tou deserve when tou do this, and you DO deserve it. I've been through SPD in my last 2 pregnancies of 5, spine surgery, perforated appendix , surgery for an intersusseption, back in 4 days later for adhesions, my cornea torn by my son's fingernail, moryon's neuroma in both feet, and I have fibromyalgia and polyarthralgia. I KNOW pain. Nine of it comes even close to what one of you inflicted on me because you don't take women's pain seriously. I hope tou eventually get what you do deserve every time you sit a woman in thar chair without sedation and gamble on her being tortured, cos it is sickening. Absolutely sickening!
I’ve never felt pain like it. I’d had a hysteroscopy around 10 years earlier under GA and naively thought they must have found a new, less invasive way to do them. I vividly remember the nurse telling me straight afterwards - when I expressed my shock at what had just happened - that they now did them this way to “save money”. She told me a third of women managed ok, with a third they had to stop virtually straight away and arrange a GA, and a third were “like me”. Nobody told me what was going to happen - I don’t remember being given a leaflet but even today these play down the issue of pain - to compare it to period cramps is laughable. I wasn’t told to take painkillers (I very much doubt they’d have made any difference). And I wasn’t told at any point that I could stop the procedure if it got too much. I was in a state of total shock throughout and couldn’t speak. Ten years on I still get flashbacks with anything gynae-related. It would have been blatantly obvious to anyone in that room that I was in horrific pain and yet it carried on. And on and on. At the end the gynae said he’d forgotten to do the biopsy and just shoved everything back in. The barbarity still shocks me after all this time. I was shaking uncontrollably and could barely walk afterwards. I was quickly shown out of the room and made to feel like I was making a fuss for asking where there was a chair nearby to wait for my lift. I found the Campaign Against Painful Hysteroscopy fairly recently and all of our experiences are depressingly similar - many are worse than mine. And still it goes on. I get that it’s not excruciatingly painful for every woman. But until you have one you don’t know if you’re going to be one of the unlucky ones. Last year I needed another hysteroscopy and it was eventually agreed - after I made it clear there was no way I could endure one any other way - that I could have it under GA. They didn’t make it easy. I was absolutely terrified but had a much more positive and relatively pain-free experience.
Only a man could say a hysteroscopy is a painless procedure!! I had one without any anaesthetic, as this was not offered to me. It was like medieval torture and I went into a shocked catatonic state for half an hr afterwards. I have had a further 2 under general anaesthetic and yes then it is painless. Apart from the period like pains afterwards. I have one today in fact and am up and about pain free already.
The issues can be split into pre procedure, during procedure and post procedure Pre - I was 'auto' referred by GP for coil removal and unexplained abdominal issues. No choice, no options . Just referred to Community Gynae. I had NO info on what a hysteroscopy entailed at any point. I was also unaware that I would be having a biopsy. Only comms was a badly copied one pager on aftercare and a text message with date. I waited a long time for the appointment which was miles from home. Text message advised ibuprofen. During procedure- rundown surgery and a 2 minute chat with Gynae when biopsy was mentioned. What followed was a coil removal and then the most barbaric hysteroscopy. I had to be held down. At one point the nurse suggested the Gynae stop because I was in agony. He looked up, told me that if he stopped, I would only be told to return and would likely have to wait again. No mention of alternative procedure or any pain relief. Biopsy followed, I cannot describe the level of pain. It cannot be categorised. Post procedure- thrust a feedback form, I could barely write as I was still shaking No follow up except a text message saying biopsy was clear. Notes: feedback should be requested twice, immediately after AND a week later Procedure information should be clearly discussed at GP stage and at procedure itself Options should be given , I had none. I would have chosen GA. Proper explanation of procedure and pain relief costs NOTHING Financial viability of OP versus GA should not feature. Patient care should be only motive regardless of gender. Had I not found Katharine Tylko's FB page, I would be suffering alone. This has to change
With respect, Prof. Clark, you are almost entirely wrong with your comments on what women want, need & feel! We the victims need to educate you perhaps on aspects that affect us the most, & others like you, mostly men, that are continuing with this horrific, barbaric regime of 'Trial by Outpatient Hysteroscopy'. A better term would be 'Torture by OPH'. You are either clueless to the trauma you are causing, which I doubt, or are arrogant & unfeeling to the needs of women at a very vulnerable time. Neither of which should apply to any Dr, but experience has taught me, the hard way, that this is too often the case. You cannot understand what a woman goes thru, but I know that many have tried to tell you about their pain, horrific experiences, their trauma & concerns, but are seemingly ignored. What you are doing is illegal in effect, and an assault. Tell me this, if someone was to tell you they were going to insert a sharp instrument into your rectum & remove your prostate (yes I know it isn't done in that way), without any pain relief, would you not expect to be in excruciating pain? Would you not want pain relief/anaesthesia for the unbearable pain you were about to experience? Having 2 nurses practically holding you down due to no pain relief or insufficient pain relief, chatting glibly to try & take your mind of it, like they do in 3rd world countries where anaesthesia is not available at all perhaps, is just horrific! Treating women like a piece of meat is disgusting. Would you be happy for the females in your family to be treated like this, to be put thru it, & unnecessarily? No, you would not! I've listened to so many women now all telling of their very similar experiences with Hysteroscopy using words & terminology such as like being tortured, barbaric, brutal, traumatic, petrifying, levels of unbearable pain that caused them to feint, rendered speechless unable to speak, like having their womb cut out with a knife feeling the knife slicing thru, etc. What you are all doing is barbaric, horrific, inhumane & is unnecessary. For God's sake you get pain relief to have a tooth out. Majority of women aren't being told what they should be by law before you get them to sign a Consent Form and they are being lied to, rushed & coerced into signing a Consent Form illegally. It's null & void if not a 'free & informed consent' in line with the precedent set in the Montgomery case. Do not think that any of you are getting away with it just because you all got them to sign the 'consent form', as you are not. It will not stand up in a court of law. Doesn't work that way. Looks like one of us is going to have to take this to court to get the precedent set, to get this investigated. No plausible deniability for any of you, you all know this is causing extreme distress, suffering & excruciating pain, & yet you all continue. It affects some women for life. Those that do this to women should be struck off at very least. Majority of patients are not being told anything before they arrive at least the 1st time, nothing at all, many not even aware that they're having a 'hysteroscopy' at all. I wasn't aware & I was in shock. For that 1st one they're not offered any pain relief, not told exactly what the risks are eg perforation, not told what the alternatives are eg MRI & made to feel bad for telling you that they're in excruciating pain. They describe their experiences as tortured, barbaric, petrifying, brutal, like having your insides cut out by a knife a seering pain, pain on the level that it causes them to feint & renders them unable to speak & that sends them in to shock, etc. Just told it's like 'period cramps'. Well that's just utter lies, it's absolute b*ll*cks! Even if you get a leafet for 'Ensure', that too tells you nothing & what it does say is very misleading. You don't even get time/chance to consider or to ask questions. Again a breach of the consent laws. How much does 'Ensure' pay you or the hospital to push method of procedure on to women, I would be interested to know? So don't think that giving them a leaflet backs you up in achieving a 'free & informed consent,' about something they're still not fully informed of. They also have to be given adequate time to consider it. It does not acheive a legal informed consent....it does not! Wonder how much Drs/hospitals are all being paid to push this barbaric regime by Big Pharma? Rather like the Government did with the Liverpool Care Pathway. I'd like to know why you say 'most women would want it that way'. Where's your proof? I've not heard of any so far who would. We might want a trip to outpatients to get it done rather than under a GA, as were told it's nothing more than period pain or 'no more painful than a 'smear', which is a lie, but when we're asked about these things it's before we have experienced it & are at our most vulnerable, it is not achieving a 'free & informed consent', as we don't have all the information that we require to enable us to make that informed decision. We also by law must be given time to consider it & it isn't acceptable under the law to do this minutes before you put them in that chair that looks like it came out of a torture chamber or a scene from Sweeney Todd. We are often in shock so not able to make any decision & the law would not find that in line with the law on consent. I certainly wasn't I was in shock before & after. I came away feeling abused, traumatised, terrified & have had nightmares about it. There isn't even a recovery room as such. You're just expected to leave & go home alone as I would have to on 2 buses in that state, no matter how much you're bleeding, no matter that you can't walk far because of the agonising excruciating pain. These are not 1 offs, they are common place. TOO COMMON!. What you are doing is without a doubt, an abuse & an assault on women and it's not necessary. No women should be put thru this horrific trauma, that often affects them for many years, often their whole life. No one should be put thru so much fear that they go on to live their lives in fear of any future procedures/operations. Therefore, you are not achieving a legal 'free & informed consent' as you have to by law. You are leaving yourself highly liable to being sued. The trauma & suffering you are causing women unnecessarily is shocking. 'Gynaecology on the cheap' should not be at the forefront of anyone's mind, especially not that of a Dr who performs Hysteroscopy! I'm still hearing very much the same horror stories, repeated over & over again. We're in the 21st century FGS, yet we don't seem to have progressed from Victorian times, but even they were given pain relief if only chloroform on a cloth. Gynaecology on the cheap has got to stop. It's barbaric & inhumane. Women deserve better than this & certainly better than this from those we entrust with our care, with our lives.
Well said 👏 👏 👏 👏 I agree with every word you said. I've got a hysteroscopy today at 2.30. I'm attending the appointment to tell the "Dr" I'm refusing this procedure. Women are not live stock. We are not cattle. Unless he rebooks this, under a general anaesthetic, I'd rather take my chances without having it done.
I had a hysteroscopy a few days ago and was told by the anaesthetist it would be done under a general anaesthetic because it is a painful experience. I can’t fault the NHS in any way with the care and respect I have been given, from GP’s to the procedure itself. Prior to the op my consultant fully explained all the potential risks associated and I was fully aware of what would be taking place based on this and lots of information given to me by my gynaecologist weeks before, who made the referral. I am sorry to hear others have experienced brutality and do not agree for one second that such a procedure should be carried out under a local.
How are the respondents to Prof Clark’s studies managed ? Could there be a chance that those surveyed will agree with the researchers - especially if there’s “KINDNESS” demonstrated - therefore are these statements a true reflection of actual experience? Somehow I doubt the accuracy, prove me wrong and let’s see your methodology.
Just had a hysteroscopy this week with cervix dilation, d+c, and biopsies under general anesthesia. No post-op pain at all, but expected bleeding. Had a uterine biopsy prior, without anesthesia & pain was unbearable. General anesthesia was a blessing!
Both these men need to wear the period pain pads that simulate cramps. Let’s see how they manage that and then we can discuss pain relief for hysteroscopies
Only a man could say a hysteroscopy is a painless procedure!! I had one without any anaesthetic, as this was not offered to me. It was like medieval torture and I went into a shocked catatonic state for half an hr afterwards. I have had a further 2 under general anaesthetic and yes then it is painless. Apart from the period like pains afterwards. I have one today in fact and am up and about pain free already.
I appreciate that decisions re pain relief are way above the pay grade of anyone carrying out this procedure and can't help feeling that the experience of constantly witnessing and participating/implementing trauma on so many women must be a horrendous and traumatic profesional experience for the staff concerned.
I have colonoscopies without pain relief but had to stop this procedure. Have as much pain relief as possible or a general anaesthetic. The John Radcliffe Hospital in Oxford's appointment letter didn't even say I was having the procedure it was only because I remembered that this was the next stage and rang up to enquire that the procedure was confirmed. The person I spoke to also said it was with pain relief but not that I should provide it! I had the procedure without any pain relief and had to stop it. I was strongly encouraged not to repeat with a GA but decided to opt for this. Waiting for my letter.
I'm having out patient hysteroscopy next month. I feel more empowered listening to this and I'm hopeful I can get through it without much distress. My gynecologist has asked me to trust her with the procedure. Fingers crossed x
Thanks for the brilliant Pod Dr G. Iv had a Hysteroscopy in GA yesterday. The anesthetist Dr Davis was brilliant my Gynae Dr Puzey was brilliant.i had pain directly after & morning after. Id never want to do this out patient. I await my results now.
It was barbaric in my experience without anaesthetic. Worst experience of my life. I went into shock and the nurse who did it did not appear to care or stop.
I would love to think general anaesthetic is not preferred to be given by clinicians because of patient safety etc but I fear it's more to do with cost
In Poland both diagnostic and operative hysteroscopies are run under the GA, otherwise no one would attend as there's zero public tolerance for harming women especially that we still remember what happen in Auschwitz-Birkenau where women were forced to endure painful, drastic gynecological experiments (including operative hysteroscopies) and other procedures with no pain management, which happened only because it was approved by the authorities and for scientific careers of perpetrators. Level of hysteroscopy complications in Poland under the GA is still low because of 2 factors: Skilled gynecologists, treating patients with the right carefulness and respect even when being under the GA. Too difficult for the NHS? Personally I would never attend hysteroscopy or any other endoscopy, internal organs biopsies without the GA or other adequate pain management.
These guys are absurd...I really dont understand...if a 3rd of women experience extreme pain then why on earth dont they just automatically do pain management for this procedure instead of waiting until women are screaming/crying/fainting for them to do anything about it?! Its like going to get a root canal and getting told "tylenol should be good enough" and to just try and deal with it?! I'm supposed to get one done soon and my gyno is only offering valium and tylenol...the only other option is to get full anethesia which will cost a crazy amount and require being done in the hospital....why nothing in between?? No gas? No drip or pain pills? Light sedation? Wtf....i am terrified And by the way men are absolutely sedated for prostate biopsies. (In the us)
It boils down to the fact that they've never really studied the female body and they are gatekeeping and gaslighting us on whether we are having pain or not. Pretend you're operating on a man. What would you do for him?
Mr Justin Clark. I would like to tell you that having had an OP hysteroscopy it has changed me, my mental state. I suffer from Anxiety, depression, paranoia. I'm now terrified of anything NHS related. It ruined my life.
I am so sorry to hear this 😢
What was the most painful part of the experience for you? The cervix dilation? If it's OK for me to ask..
I had this procedure and it was excruciating pain. Never again. Now I am likely to have another because I have a huge lump in my abdomen and I am terrified. I would have to be given a GA.
Sheer agony .
I went through this procedure under GA 13yrs ago - not by request but because I wasn't given a choice. I was told hysteroscopy was always performed under GA because it carries (to quote the gynae nurse) 'a high risk of perforation'. I was "reassured" that at least I'd already be anaesthetised if that happened & I needed emergency surgery to repair any damage. The risks were fully discussed with me & noted on a consent form that I had to sign whereas, now, an increasing number of women seem to be blindsided into going through "trial by OPH" - or, as one friend very recently remarked about the GIRFT initiative, "getting away with it first time".
I had a hysteroscopy to remove polyps from my womb a few days ago, I was told it would be done via general anaesthetic because it can be a painful experience. All of the staff were absolutely amazing and so far recovery has been going ok. I don’t think, to be honest, a procedure like this should be done under a local.
Dear Dr Busby, thank you for this interview I would like to share my story (so far) of Hysteroscopy. I had a hysteroscopy in 2015 to retrieve a missing coil. I had no idea how painful the procedure would be until it started, only then, when in considerable pain, was I offered a LA.
I am now PM & even a smear test is very painful. At my most recent smear test the nurse could not see my coil. I had to attend a local SH clinic to see a specialist consultant who assured me with their "special tool" they are 95% successful in retrieving coils. Due to my previous experience I asked for a LA which was given, but not offered, during the explanation of the procedure. The procedure was painful but not unbearable (after the LA), it was unsuccessful.
I was then referred to the local hospital for a hysteroscopy where I had, again, to request a LA. Despite the LA ,I can only describe the procedure as excruciatingly painful & also unsuccessful as it had to be stopped. To explain what it was like, it felt like a red hot instrument covered in glass shards was attempting access my uterus. The doctor & nursing staff were very kind and this made the horrible situation a little better.
I am now waiting for retrieval under GA.
IMHO, this procedure should never be attempted in OP for PM women due to the stiffening & narrowing of the cervix after menopause.
I would also like to take issue with Prof Clark's comments regarding scaring women. Women would be much assured about this procedure if they knew that adequate pain relief was available.
Listening to this Justin kept going back to the trials and 'evidence' and really seems against anything other than paracetamol and/or ibuprofen. Sedation or gas and air never offered. Assumed all ok as I'd given birth naturally ( with gas and air and pethidine!). No recovery room or time. The assault/abuse you felt hits after you leave! You just want to.leave and get away from the place that caused do.much pain. Biopsy was horrendous. Thank you Gail for challenging this and for the clear headedness of Helgi for saying gynae could provide sedation like endoscopy ( which I've recd).
Finally let's stop saying it's just like cramps. This can vary widely from woman to woman and male gynae have no idea how this feels!
I had a similar experience, I had a surprise biopsy which I was coerced into. The registrar pushed me into having it although I had been booked to have it under general because I mentioned I had one before but if he let me finish I would have said it had to be stopped because I screamed the place down. I was in utter shock after he plonked to strips of my womb down in front of me in vials, I wasn't informed of my rights or the risks or offered pain relief and I had told him beforehand I had cycled there and I live 5 miles away from the hospital up a mountain and had to limp home with the bike in pain and shock. These practices are utterly disgusting and they would never put a man through an impromptu ordeal like this without any kind of pain relief or anaesthesia it's disgusting and it's the fault of Justin who decides the policy for the country. I vote we make Justin have a colonoscopy or prostate biopsy without pain relief then see how he feels about it.
@@alexarosa632 I am so sorry for what happened to you and I like that idea! As far as I am concerned you were assaulted?
Why didn’t Prof Justin Clark publish the full range of pain scores? Average pain scores are meaningless to a patients like me . Also why are GIRFT setting targets of 90% of diagnostic in OPH.
Why do doctors like to torture women? Don't tell me you don't, because I was tortured with 5 people in the room and nobody did a damn thing to help.
I know for a 100% fact that men aren't made to go through torturous procedures because they would use the violence tou deserve when tou do this, and you DO deserve it.
I've been through SPD in my last 2 pregnancies of 5, spine surgery, perforated appendix , surgery for an intersusseption, back in 4 days later for adhesions, my cornea torn by my son's fingernail, moryon's neuroma in both feet, and I have fibromyalgia and polyarthralgia. I KNOW pain. Nine of it comes even close to what one of you inflicted on me because you don't take women's pain seriously.
I hope tou eventually get what you do deserve every time you sit a woman in thar chair without sedation and gamble on her being tortured, cos it is sickening. Absolutely sickening!
I totally agree.
I’ve never felt pain like it. I’d had a hysteroscopy around 10 years earlier under GA and naively thought they must have found a new, less invasive way to do them.
I vividly remember the nurse telling me straight afterwards - when I expressed my shock at what had just happened - that they now did them this way to “save money”. She told me a third of women managed ok, with a third they had to stop virtually straight away and arrange a GA, and a third were “like me”.
Nobody told me what was going to happen - I don’t remember being given a leaflet but even today these play down the issue of pain - to compare it to period cramps is laughable. I wasn’t told to take painkillers (I very much doubt they’d have made any difference). And I wasn’t told at any point that I could stop the procedure if it got too much.
I was in a state of total shock throughout and couldn’t speak. Ten years on I still get flashbacks with anything gynae-related. It would have been blatantly obvious to anyone in that room that I was in horrific pain and yet it carried on. And on and on. At the end the gynae said he’d forgotten to do the biopsy and just shoved everything back in. The barbarity still shocks me after all this time.
I was shaking uncontrollably and could barely walk afterwards. I was quickly shown out of the room and made to feel like I was making a fuss for asking where there was a chair nearby to wait for my lift.
I found the Campaign Against Painful Hysteroscopy fairly recently and all of our experiences are depressingly similar - many are worse than mine.
And still it goes on.
I get that it’s not excruciatingly painful for every woman. But until you have one you don’t know if you’re going to be one of the unlucky ones. Last year I needed another hysteroscopy and it was eventually agreed - after I made it clear there was no way I could endure one any other way - that I could have it under GA. They didn’t make it easy. I was absolutely terrified but had a much more positive and relatively pain-free experience.
Only a man could say a hysteroscopy is a painless procedure!! I had one without any anaesthetic, as this was not offered to me. It was like medieval torture and I went into a shocked catatonic state for half an hr afterwards. I have had a further 2 under general anaesthetic and yes then it is painless. Apart from the period like pains afterwards. I have one today in fact and am up and about pain free already.
@@danskdna8550 hugs x
The issues can be split into pre procedure, during procedure and post procedure
Pre - I was 'auto' referred by GP for coil removal and unexplained abdominal issues. No choice, no options . Just referred to Community Gynae.
I had NO info on what a hysteroscopy entailed at any point. I was also unaware that I would be having a biopsy.
Only comms was a badly copied one pager on aftercare and a text message with date.
I waited a long time for the appointment which was miles from home. Text message advised ibuprofen.
During procedure- rundown surgery and a 2 minute chat with Gynae when biopsy was mentioned.
What followed was a coil removal and then the most barbaric hysteroscopy. I had to be held down.
At one point the nurse suggested the Gynae stop because I was in agony. He looked up, told me that if he stopped, I would only be told to return and would likely have to wait again. No mention of alternative procedure or any pain relief. Biopsy followed, I cannot describe the level of pain. It cannot be categorised.
Post procedure- thrust a feedback form, I could barely write as I was still shaking
No follow up except a text message saying biopsy was clear.
Notes: feedback should be requested twice, immediately after AND a week later
Procedure information should be clearly discussed at GP stage and at procedure itself
Options should be given , I had none. I would have chosen GA.
Proper explanation of procedure and pain relief costs NOTHING
Financial viability of OP versus GA should not feature. Patient care should be only motive regardless of gender.
Had I not found Katharine Tylko's FB page, I would be suffering alone.
This has to change
I’m so sorry you were treated that way.
Thank you for a great discussion and facing the issues head on about options of pain relief
With respect, Prof. Clark, you are almost entirely wrong with your comments on what women want, need & feel! We the victims need to educate you perhaps on aspects that affect us the most, & others like you, mostly men, that are continuing with this horrific, barbaric regime of 'Trial by Outpatient Hysteroscopy'. A better term would be 'Torture by OPH'.
You are either clueless to the trauma you are causing, which I doubt, or are arrogant & unfeeling to the needs of women at a very vulnerable time. Neither of which should apply to any Dr, but experience has taught me, the hard way, that this is too often the case. You cannot understand what a woman goes thru, but I know that many have tried to tell you about their pain, horrific experiences, their trauma & concerns, but are seemingly ignored.
What you are doing is illegal in effect, and an assault. Tell me this, if someone was to tell you they were going to insert a sharp instrument into your rectum & remove your prostate (yes I know it isn't done in that way), without any pain relief, would you not expect to be in excruciating pain? Would you not want pain relief/anaesthesia for the unbearable pain you were about to experience? Having 2 nurses practically holding you down due to no pain relief or insufficient pain relief, chatting glibly to try & take your mind of it, like they do in 3rd world countries where anaesthesia is not available at all perhaps, is just horrific! Treating women like a piece of meat is disgusting. Would you be happy for the females in your family to be treated like this, to be put thru it, & unnecessarily? No, you would not!
I've listened to so many women now all telling of their very similar experiences with Hysteroscopy using words & terminology such as like being tortured, barbaric, brutal, traumatic, petrifying, levels of unbearable pain that caused them to feint, rendered speechless unable to speak, like having their womb cut out with a knife feeling the knife slicing thru, etc. What you are all doing is barbaric, horrific, inhumane & is unnecessary. For God's sake you get pain relief to have a tooth out.
Majority of women aren't being told what they should be by law before you get them to sign a Consent Form and they are being lied to, rushed & coerced into signing a Consent Form illegally. It's null & void if not a 'free & informed consent' in line with the precedent set in the Montgomery case. Do not think that any of you are getting away with it just because you all got them to sign the 'consent form', as you are not. It will not stand up in a court of law. Doesn't work that way. Looks like one of us is going to have to take this to court to get the precedent set, to get this investigated. No plausible deniability for any of you, you all know this is causing extreme distress, suffering & excruciating pain, & yet you all continue. It affects some women for life. Those that do this to women should be struck off at very least. Majority of patients are not being told anything before they arrive at least the 1st time, nothing at all, many not even aware that they're having a 'hysteroscopy' at all. I wasn't aware & I was in shock. For that 1st one they're not offered any pain relief, not told exactly what the risks are eg perforation, not told what the alternatives are eg MRI & made to feel bad for telling you that they're in excruciating pain. They describe their experiences as tortured, barbaric, petrifying, brutal, like having your insides cut out by a knife a seering pain, pain on the level that it causes them to feint & renders them unable to speak & that sends them in to shock, etc. Just told it's like 'period cramps'. Well that's just utter lies, it's absolute b*ll*cks! Even if you get a leafet for 'Ensure', that too tells you nothing & what it does say is very misleading. You don't even get time/chance to consider or to ask questions. Again a breach of the consent laws. How much does 'Ensure' pay you or the hospital to push method of procedure on to women, I would be interested to know? So don't think that giving them a leaflet backs you up in achieving a 'free & informed consent,' about something they're still not fully informed of. They also have to be given adequate time to consider it. It does not acheive a legal informed consent....it does not! Wonder how much Drs/hospitals are all being paid to push this barbaric regime by Big Pharma? Rather like the Government did with the Liverpool Care Pathway. I'd like to know why you say 'most women would want it that way'. Where's your proof? I've not heard of any so far who would. We might want a trip to outpatients to get it done rather than under a GA, as were told it's nothing more than period pain or 'no more painful than a 'smear', which is a lie, but when we're asked about these things it's before we have experienced it & are at our most vulnerable, it is not achieving a 'free & informed consent', as we don't have all the information that we require to enable us to make that informed decision. We also by law must be given time to consider it & it isn't acceptable under the law to do this minutes before you put them in that chair that looks like it came out of a torture chamber or a scene from Sweeney Todd. We are often in shock so not able to make any decision & the law would not find that in line with the law on consent. I certainly wasn't I was in shock before & after. I came away feeling abused, traumatised, terrified & have had nightmares about it. There isn't even a recovery room as such. You're just expected to leave & go home alone as I would have to on 2 buses in that state, no matter how much you're bleeding, no matter that you can't walk far because of the agonising excruciating pain. These are not 1 offs, they are common place. TOO COMMON!.
What you are doing is without a doubt, an abuse & an assault on women and it's not necessary. No women should be put thru this horrific trauma, that often affects them for many years, often their whole life. No one should be put thru so much fear that they go on to live their lives in fear of any future procedures/operations. Therefore, you are not achieving a legal 'free & informed consent' as you have to by law. You are leaving yourself highly liable to being sued. The trauma & suffering you are causing women unnecessarily is shocking. 'Gynaecology on the cheap' should not be at the forefront of anyone's mind, especially not that of a Dr who performs Hysteroscopy! I'm still hearing very much the same horror stories, repeated over & over again. We're in the 21st century FGS, yet we don't seem to have progressed from Victorian times, but even they were given pain relief if only chloroform on a cloth.
Gynaecology on the cheap has got to stop. It's barbaric & inhumane. Women deserve better than this & certainly better than this from those we entrust with our care, with our lives.
Well said 👏 👏 👏 👏 I agree with every word you said. I've got a hysteroscopy today at 2.30. I'm attending the appointment to tell the "Dr" I'm refusing this procedure. Women are not live stock. We are not cattle. Unless he rebooks this, under a general anaesthetic, I'd rather take my chances without having it done.
I had a hysteroscopy a few days ago and was told by the anaesthetist it would be done under a general anaesthetic because it is a painful experience. I can’t fault the NHS in any way with the care and respect I have been given, from GP’s to the procedure itself. Prior to the op my consultant fully explained all the potential risks associated and I was fully aware of what would be taking place based on this and lots of information given to me by my gynaecologist weeks before, who made the referral. I am sorry to hear others have experienced brutality and do not agree for one second that such a procedure should be carried out under a local.
How are the respondents to Prof Clark’s studies managed ? Could there be a chance that those surveyed will agree with the researchers - especially if there’s “KINDNESS” demonstrated - therefore are these statements a true reflection of actual experience? Somehow I doubt the accuracy, prove me wrong and let’s see your methodology.
Just had a hysteroscopy this week with cervix dilation, d+c, and biopsies under general anesthesia. No post-op pain at all, but expected bleeding. Had a uterine biopsy prior, without anesthesia & pain was unbearable. General anesthesia was a blessing!
Acquiescence bias? Halo bias?
Both these men need to wear the period pain pads that simulate cramps. Let’s see how they manage that and then we can discuss pain relief for hysteroscopies
Only a man could say a hysteroscopy is a painless procedure!! I had one without any anaesthetic, as this was not offered to me. It was like medieval torture and I went into a shocked catatonic state for half an hr afterwards. I have had a further 2 under general anaesthetic and yes then it is painless. Apart from the period like pains afterwards. I have one today in fact and am up and about pain free already.
I appreciate that decisions re pain relief are way above the pay grade of anyone carrying out this procedure and can't help feeling that the experience of constantly witnessing and participating/implementing trauma on so many women must be a horrendous and traumatic profesional experience for the staff concerned.
I have colonoscopies without pain relief but had to stop this procedure. Have as much pain relief as possible or a general anaesthetic. The John Radcliffe Hospital in Oxford's appointment letter didn't even say I was having the procedure it was only because I remembered that this was the next stage and rang up to enquire that the procedure was confirmed. The person I spoke to also said it was with pain relief but not that I should provide it! I had the procedure without any pain relief and had to stop it. I was strongly encouraged not to repeat with a GA but decided to opt for this. Waiting for my letter.
I'm having out patient hysteroscopy next month. I feel more empowered listening to this and I'm hopeful I can get through it without much distress. My gynecologist has asked me to trust her with the procedure. Fingers crossed x
Good luck!
How long will the pain last for
Thanks for the brilliant Pod Dr G.
Iv had a Hysteroscopy in GA yesterday. The anesthetist Dr Davis was brilliant my Gynae Dr Puzey was brilliant.i had pain directly after & morning after. Id never want to do this out patient. I await my results now.
It was barbaric in my experience without anaesthetic. Worst experience of my life. I went into shock and the nurse who did it did not appear to care or stop.
I would love to think general anaesthetic is not preferred to be given by clinicians because of patient safety etc but I fear it's more to do with cost
In Poland both diagnostic and operative hysteroscopies are run under the GA, otherwise no one would attend as there's zero public tolerance for harming women especially that we still remember what happen in Auschwitz-Birkenau where women were forced to endure painful, drastic gynecological experiments (including operative hysteroscopies) and other procedures with no pain management, which happened only because it was approved by the authorities and for scientific careers of perpetrators.
Level of hysteroscopy complications in Poland under the GA is still low because of 2 factors: Skilled gynecologists, treating patients with the right carefulness and respect even when being under the GA. Too difficult for the NHS?
Personally I would never attend hysteroscopy or any other endoscopy, internal organs biopsies without the GA or other adequate pain management.
These guys are absurd...I really dont understand...if a 3rd of women experience extreme pain then why on earth dont they just automatically do pain management for this procedure instead of waiting until women are screaming/crying/fainting for them to do anything about it?!
Its like going to get a root canal and getting told "tylenol should be good enough" and to just try and deal with it?!
I'm supposed to get one done soon and my gyno is only offering valium and tylenol...the only other option is to get full anethesia which will cost a crazy amount and require being done in the hospital....why nothing in between?? No gas? No drip or pain pills? Light sedation? Wtf....i am terrified
And by the way men are absolutely sedated for prostate biopsies. (In the us)
I don't think a sedative or music would be adequate while u punch out a piece of my internal tissue and and scrape the insides of my abdomen out
It boils down to the fact that they've never really studied the female body and they are gatekeeping and gaslighting us on whether we are having pain or not. Pretend you're operating on a man. What would you do for him?