How does no one ever talk about the twist that Saw IV is going on at the exact same time as Saw III? I always thought that was a pretty cool element to that film, it makes sense as we didn't see any of those characters in Saw III and I always thought it made those two films go together really well.
@@familydog i mean that’s a core part of the saw franchise, having twists for twists sakes when the hello zepp music starts playing. it’s not a saw movie w out them and i like this time twist just like saw 2, however the time twist fell flat and became stale in jigsaw which is a sucky movie in general
@jalynlovesbtr There is a difference between bad twists and twists for twists sake. Most the saw twists are bad twists. Part 4 was just a twist for twists sake.
Honestly I liked the other twist in saw 5 where it’s revealed that everyone could have survived if they all worked together, but because most of the people playing the game were solely focused on saving themselves many players died
Yeah imo THIS is the twist. Not the cop plot stuff. And while the cop plot of V does drag the rest of the movie down, I think the trap plot twist ranks higher
Yeah, the trap plot of 5 was one of my favorite (especially given the two characters work together at the end and survive), the entire Hoffman plot bores me to death though
That is also false, his doctor treated him terribly, nobody goes to the doctors to get disrespected when having a life ending illness. Like how at someone’s funeral you don’t talk bad about the person that died
Saw 3D was originally supposed to be an epic two part finale, but the studio said no and made them crush two scripts onto one film. Because of this, several plot points were dropped. For example, the guys in the pig masks with Gordon at the end were actually the two guys in the "Bros Before Hoes" trap at the beginning of the movie. Adam was going to be revealed to not be dead. His body in the room had been switched out with Tapp's body, hence the inconsistency of the gunshot on the dead body. The original ending would have been Gordon and Adam shutting the door on Hoffman TOGETHER and collectively saying "Game Over," while the survivors in that meeting stand behind them chanting "He helped me." Absolutely KILLS ME that the studio didn't allow this to happen. Honestly, listen to the writers commentary on the film. These two had SOOOO many cool ideas that were cut by the studio. Such a shame. For the record, this in NO WAY makes Saw 3D better but I can at least understand why Gordon's presence was so messily represented given this information.
I know that due to Saw VI underperforming at the box office cancelled the original plans for 3D to be made into a two part finale but I didn’t think that this is what could’ve been. The idea of Gordon and Adam working together against Hoffman in the final scene with all of John’s survivors chanting “He helped me.” sounds awesome and with the Hello Zepp track would’ve been the icing on the cake. Do you have a link to a video or interview where the writers talk about this abandoned script?
@@FilmMasterAdam Thanks. I feel like if that plan had gone through and the twist with Dr. Gordon was set up more in advance and subtler, than I think we might have gotten a more satisfying OG finale. It might not have fixed the problems of the final product we did get but with the ideas you’ve said, it feels like wasted potential which is sad. Thankfully, after Saw X, it looks like the franchise looks set to be reinvented in the right direction.
What I love about Saw 2 is that it has 3 twists. The safe, the time, and the apprentice. And it worked so well. It's not a convoluted plan with like 20 steps and requires a ton of luck and coincedence.
Yeah, I think it is one of the movies where all of the twists compliments each other very well without it being shoehorned. The live feed being not live, which sets up the mystery, the time being up, which opens up a safe, revealing the kid, and Amanda being the main wearer of the pig mask since around Saw 1 and her, being the next "Jigsaw" which felt very satisfying.
Eh...is good but there is 1 thing about Saw 2 that is pure luck: Xavier. What if Xavier killed Amanda in the game? Daniel would have been totally unprotected and probably would have died, actuallt Xavier could have killed Amanda like 2 times in the movie, but aprat from that Saw 2 is GOATED
@@justjbeats424110’s twist was stupid imo. U cant call it a twist because if john and amanda are alive in saw 2, u already knew they had a way to come out of their own trap. Hot take but i think saw iv’s is a good one, seeing jeff at the end of that one honestly shocked tf out of me, realizing saw iv was happening at the same time of saw 3? Like wtf? Did not expect that. Saw 3d’s was obvious as fuck though as soon as they brought in dr gordon in the way they did at the jigsaw meeting and in the beginning.
@@justjbeats4241 10's ending just really irked me the wrong way, and I know that even the good movies in this franchise were never known for it's acting but I felt some of the actors in 10 were particularly bad. Still very enjoyable movie and I would watch it again.
Another thing I noticed about the ending of Saw X, is that it ends with doors opening and a slow fade to white in contrast to the usual endings where the doors are closed to an abrupt black screen.
Saw IV always made sense to me: Rigg is being tested because he doesn't appreciate HIS life enough: he's going through unsecured doors risking it for no reason, he's very ignorant to his wife and his family life as a whole, and is fully driven by his obsession with Jigsaw. The test itself wasn't meant to kill him, he only died because Eric shot him. Even if he had failed and walked through the door at the end, that wouldn't have killed him, it would have only killed Eric
I don't know, still seems like a shitty reason to put someone in a trap. Dude was literally doing his job. Seemed a lot more like the killers taking out the biggest opposition. That's my biggest problem with the series, how are these the people being tested, instead of people doing real harm to themselves or others?
My interpretation for the Saw x teeter totter trap was that they planned to give Cecilia control of the game but it was designed for John and Amanda to do while Cecilia traps herself in the money room. The game went off the rails when she got the kid involved.
Fun fact: Spiral was actually pitched at a wedding Chris Rock had attended. He met a Lionsgate exec or writer or something, and went "Hey you work on Saw right? I like Saw." Then we got Spiral. I just think that's such a stupid origin for a movie, especially because Saw X was put on hold.
For me: 10.) Jigsaw 09.) Saw 7 08.) Spiral 07.) Saw 5 06.) Saw 4 05.) Saw 10 04.) Saw 6 03.) Saw 3 02.) Saw 2 01.) Saw The original twist was so great and memorable that the studios decided to force a twist into every single installment, to very mixed results.
Solid ranking, here's mine, if you don't mind. 1.] Saw II 2.] Saw 3.] Saw III • 4.) Saw X 5.) Saw VI 6.) Saw IV 7.) Saw V • 8.} Spiral 9.} Saw VII 10.} Jigsaw
Good list. I always thought the Saw 4 Twist was pretty good. Not that Hoffman was an apprentice. But the fact both Saw 4 and Saw 3 were taking place at the same time was so cool and surprising. Probably my second favorite twist after Saw 2
Yeah I remember not enjoying Saw 4 as much when it came out but I did love the twist. When it reaches the end and Strahm enters the room with Jeff and Jigsaw's dead corpse I was like holy shit.
Took my dumbass teenage brain a rewatch to figure out they were happening at the same time. Ever since I liked the movie much more than the first time watching.
I still remember being 17 years old and me and my best friend went and saw it in the theaters. When the twist happened in the original saw our jaws dropped wide open when he stood up and wasn’t dead at all. Gave me freaking chills. Still do!
The body on the floor was still surprising to me, but unfortunately I was a bit spoiled on Zepp because I recognized Tobin Bell's voice after he played a villain on 24. So unless they were doing some kind of weird voice distortion idea for the tapes, I knew Tobin Bell was going to be playing the mastermind.
@@mdp720 That sucks!! I do think it was supposed to be obvious that Zepp was a red herring but if you know Tobin Bells voice and then recognize him on the hospital bed that would absolutely suck. Unfortunately I watched the first movie when I was about 8 years old. I enjoyed it but I didn’t catch on to the twist. I just thought it was weird that the dead guy was getting up.
They had a couple of hints in the other saw movies about Gordons fate. There was the eyeball trap in Saw 2, where we saw the person who planted the key in Mikes eye walked with a limp, and Jill dropping off that letter in Saw 5, alerting Gordon to Hoffmans activities. Theres not a ton there but its fun to look back on nevertheless. Also, I believe that Lions gate is still developing a TV Series continuation of Spiral. I hope they go through with it despite the sucess of X
That would be cool to see a continuation of Spiral in a series but definitely bring back Chris Rock and the villain. The movie wasn’t too bad but covid ruined it just like it ruined the last Matrix.
@@gman2015zyea I honestly don’t get the hate it received but I think it’s a lot of people that just want Tobin in the movies even tho this was a cool way to remove him and it no be a direct apprentice but a copy cat of some form
wait i thought it was meant for cecilia originally but john and amanda planned to take it cause their plan A didn’t go well, but cecelia flipped it by adding the kid, which is why amanda was panicking? pls correct me cause i wanna know! lol
@@st4rgazings470why would they design a trap with the capacity for two people and only use it on one person. They planned to be in that trap, they knew how to get out of the restraints after Celia was in the gas trap.
So I think the plan was for Parker and Cecilia to be tested. That’s the plan. But to test them they either could be put in the gas or the bloodboarding. If it was the blood then they both could’ve survived like John and Carlos did in the gas only 1 could’ve. If it was the gas he knew he would’ve done the blood and his idea was Amanda to also do it in which they could easily beat it because they know how to and they actually like each other. The only thing he didn’t think of was Carlos being there in which he told Carlos “don’t pull” so he wouldn’t be punished for nothing but he did anyway to save John. Basically John had multiple outs to what the subjects picked.
Original Saw twist all the way. We didn’t know to expect a twist. Not only that.. the twist is just so darn good. There was never any reason to think the guy in the middle of the room was alive.
I thought Cecelia got the worst of the fake miracle cure crew. All the others are dead and done with. Cecelia however is going to suffer. The gas has stopped pouring into room but it’s still in the air. Basically Cecelia is trapped in the air hole and her only options left are starve to death or go back inside the room and meet the same fate as Parker. It’s genius I think, the poisonous gas is a metaphor for cancer eating away at the person and the air hole is a metaphor for the little bit of hope that is still there even though there is clearly no chance of survival.
My one gripe with saw X is they show the gas vapors eating at the dudes flesh at one point, wouldnt that mean that cecilia should be dead too since her whole body is still exposed to the gas? Seems like plot hole that alot of people look over.
My guess is the gas has to be inhaled. Probably some kind of nerve gas. Probably similar to what was is the ventilation system of the house that was home to the Saw 2 trap.
@@crypt5129 I thought they couldn't do that, but now thinking about it, they probably could! but they weren't selfless like Jigsaw and the kid in the other trap! Wow.
@@sour3000 Maybe but the end result and how the hole was designed? I suspect some of Jigsaw's traps have... lasting effects... in this case, Cecilia might be condemned to a fate worse then death for cheating John Kramer out of every single person in that hospital... maybe that could be how the opening act of Saw 11 goes or involved: just how screwed she brought it on herself
I remember way back when saw 2 came out, the message boards theorized Gordon being an apprentice because the guy at the beggining was limping, and doing complicated eye surgery. And they ended up being right.
I would probably say that Saw II is my favorite. It’s a really surprising twist, it lines up with everything that has taken place, and it actually leaves the viewer very satisfied, which I can’t say about a lot of Saw twists. As interesting as the Saw franchise is, I don’t think I wouldn’t have minded if the franchise took an eighteen year break until the greatness of Saw X came along.
Good video Cody! Glad you liked Saw X so much, that you're doing more videos about the Franchise. Saw II is also my favorite twist, and it still is my favorite Saw movie.
while its a bit nuanced and there are definitely "worse" people to "test", I think Rigg wasn't being tested because he wants to save people, but that his obsessive behavior and blindsided recklessness leads to danger to the people around him. Again, in the grand scheme of people being tested its definitely weaker, but Hoffman probably picked him out like you said. Great video! I'm really enjoying these Saw videos from you ^^
The twist at the end of Saw 4 where that and Saw 3 entwine blew my mind when watching it for the first time, not only that but 5 picks up so quickly after when Straum is still in the warehouse and get put in the box trap. The combination of the two narratives makes the viewer try to dissect the last hour hour if film they've watched, as well as all of Saw 3, which you may have only seen once the year prior. The idea is so much fun, and it's also pretty well pieced together.
I so wish Amanda continued on so much longer. I was floored by her reveal in saw 2 and completely deflated by her death in saw 3. Saw 3 was the last saw movie I actually watched until saw x.
I’m with you there. I remember being floored by the sequel’s ending only to go into III and, while shocked, also feel like, “That’s it?” I can understand the arc for the character, but we needed a film or two in between to show the cracks. Hoffman ended up the same way. I thought the reveal was good, then they just followed Amanda’s arc and ended up just as psycho as poor Amanda did.
I personally understood the Saw X twist a little differently. While you said John had planned for Cecilia and the lover to end up in either one of the final traps, what I understood was that John had always planned to end up in the blood boarding trap. John never does anything by accident, there's no way he would not have known there would be a possibility of him ending up in that trap, especially since we know Amanda called Parker. They knew he would show up there and we know they knew him and Cecilia were lovers and that he would try to save Cecilia. Knowing this, they still let him see that they had a gun (despite taking the bullets out) and didn't let him take the money sooner (because it would have set off the gas too early). Amanda and John knew at one point he would take that gun and try to overpower them and flip the game on John and Amanda. It wouldn't have made sense for them to play along otherwise because Amanda and John took the bullets from the gun. There was no chance Parker could have killed them with that gun, so why didn't they just try to take him down instead of getting into the blood boarding trap if it wasn't planned? John got into the trap because Parker was holding the gun to them, but the gun wasn't loaded and they knew that? Also earlier in the movie, the camera focused for more than just a few seconds on Carlos playing with the football against the building with his father, which is exactly where he was playing football when Cecilia caught him on the cameras and then brought him in to be part of the blood boarding trap. I don't think any of this was accidental, John is too smart for that. He knew Carlos would be there since he saw him playing there before, and knew Cecilia was a bad enough person that she could involve a child to get John to sacrifice himself. So I think part of the twist was that John and Amanda went along with pretending they weren't supposed to be placed into the trap and pretend that John was dying, knowing that Cecilia would let him die, run to get the money with Parker before leaving, and eventually set off the final gas room. There's also a moment before Parker and Cecilia grab the money where Parker looks at John and Carlos in the trap and says 'that trap would never have worked without two people'. Since we found out only seconds later that John and Amanda knew of Parker's involvement, I don't think that line was alluding to that. I think what it was meant to signify was that John planned to be there with another person in the trap to trick them. Didn't the blood boarding trap also release John and Carlos as soon as the bag of money was lifted and the gas in the room activated? So basically John knew they would selfishly not leave without the money and so he would only be confined to the trap for as long as it took them to get the money, which wouldn't be long enough for the trap to kill him. If that is the case, it definitely adds more layers to the twist and makes it even more WTF for me. I also don't think John would have gone through the process of setting up two separate traps in case one wouldn't work out intentionally. We have never seen that before. John is very meticulous in the way he plans out his traps for each specific victim, I doubt he would be there thinking 'oh I'll make two for Cecilia and Parker in case the first one isn't successful'. John is always successful 🤣 and would never willingly leave anything to chance. So I think the blood boarding trap was never meant to be for Cecilia (I might be very wrong but that's what I got from the montage reveal when everything was being explained).
I like to think John knew Cecilia would win if things went how we saw, but if Parker went along with everything and they went into the Blood Board Trap until completion, Parker would have won out of brute forcing the lever...so it was like a game inside a game.
It wasn't meant for Cecilia but having the kid there was indeed an "unforeseen circumstance." No way John would have planned to blood board an innocent kid. It was supposed to be him and Amanda in there and he was prepared to die for the kid if need be
That’s one of the biggest flaws in the franchise is how wishy washy they are with the rules and morals. It’s a shame it wasn’t executed tighter in that regard.
Love when Cody shares his thoughts on Hoffman. This time was pretty tame lol but I too can't bear to watch the movies where's he's a big focal point of the story. No matter how many times I try to give them a shot, they are always a draaaaggg and I know it's because I just can't become invested in his character.
He's just not as interesting as John Kramer was because he comes off as a stereotypical murderer. I can buy into the fact that John has an incredibly twisted sense of justice and that he sees his games as a path to redemption. I can't buy that with Hoffman's sadistic ass. He's self-serving and comes off as if he never truly believed in John's philosophies, only using them to further his own sick goals.
The first two films have amazing twists and I honestly think 4, 6, 3, and Saw X have awesome endings too. Spiral was a bit obvious and 5 is just okay. Jigsaw makes absolutely no sense and 7 is horrible too
@@darthvader9710 2 was not predicable in any way when it first came out. 2’s ending was so good that it solidified the trope of Saw’s twist endings and became the blueprint for the rest of the series. maybe nowadays 2’s ending may be predictable since it’s an old movie and the internet exists, but when it came out it was phenomenal. the secret apprentice angle was brand new and the timeline shenanigans were layered and intelligent. I still remember the reactions from the theater screening I went to, everyone had their head in their hands and was freaking out!
Of all the cool shit that you have in this room. Why did my eyes immediately shoot to the Survivor bandana casually hanging out on the desk in the background? 🤣
I feel like Saw 2 has a way bigger impact than 1. Simply because the message/ lesson to be learned can be to taught to everyone. It feels like a cautionary folklore story told through this horror thriller. Not to mention the film drops hints in its setup to really make the ending earned.
Really liked Saw X but that twist was definitely in the top 3 most painfully obvious along with Spiral and Saw 3D. Was anyone really surprised that Jigsaw had a trap set up for them?
Respect your reasonings! But for me, Matthews’s head getting crushed between ice blocks made Saw IV the most memorable of all the endings for me. On a rewatch Hoffman seems so obvious, but I was really shocked by the ice blocks.
The idea of the cop that keep saving everyone makes sense to die because he is getting in the way of people finding out how much their life matters to them, instead of letting them fight for their life and realize what jigsaw wants everyone to value and stop taking for granted their life. Once it’s full on Hoffman it’s good that it’s not much of a lesson any more because Hoffman and jigsaw are different. When Hoffman gets out in the box and gets away it’s great because strohm finally has proof that he caught Hoffman but it cost him his life and it’s similar to the first movie when jigsaw stands up, the survivor for the moment watching jigsaw stand up shows so much fear and strohm when he realizes Hoffman tricked him has so much fear and anger representing the connection but difference in Hoffman and jigsaw
When I was younger. Back with the flip phone texting before smartphones came around and all, people used to send Forwarded Text Messages to everyone with ‘Hello Zepp’, jigsaws voice, and the laughter billy has with a picture of him too. It was telling you to be kind and respectful. Appreciate your life and send the FWD message, or you’ll get put into a game. LOL. I was afraid someone at the time would use jigsaw’s teachings in reality. It was VERY hyped back in the 2000s.
Im not entirely certain of the details, but Elwes was in a lawsuit with the production company for royalties he was promised in contract. This could have something to do with him not returning until late in the series. He had stated he's always enjoyed the premise of this franchise, and his return was definitely rushed.
loving all the Saw content lately - right on, dude! for me the twists would be: 10. Jigsaw 9. Spiral 8. Saw V 7. Saw IV 6. Saw 3D 5. Saw X 4. Saw VI 3. Saw III 2. Saw 1. Saw II
Totally agree with you on the rose colored glasses people have on Saw 1. The acting mainly from Cary Elwes is so laughably bad in retrospect. I'm not sure if it was purposeful to create a campy vibe? But the rest of the movie is played straight though. The twist is way more obvious when you are looking for it but i think that is part of what makes a twist good.
Saw 3D has a similar issue to Predator in that if they excised the opening scene the surprise reveal would hit so much harder. I mean, if the scene of the ship coming to Earth wasn't at the start of Predator and you went into it blind (a lot easier in the 80's), you'd be watching it thinking it's your standard Arnie / 80's actioner and only when you get to the point where they "defeat the bad guys" a third of the way into the run-time would you start to think something else was afoot (and then the invisible alien would REALLY catch you off guard). With Saw 3D, if they didn't have Gordon attend the meeting (or even had him in the shadows were the viewers couldn't make him out) and only revealed him at the end when he takes off the mask, THAT would have been a perfect twist and, as you said in the video, brought the Saw franchise to a satisfying full-circle conclusion.
Exactly! If I could edit movies, I'd love to do a fan-edit where I remove Gordon's appearances before the ending twist and add the opening scene showing how he survived with his foot sawed off in the flashbacks revealing Gordon to be Jigsaw's ultimate apprentice.
Saw 2 has the best twist and it was also my favorite movie in the franchise until saw X came out. Really enjoying these saw videos and I'm looking forward to the rest. Keep up the great work cody.
Yes! Saw’s twist at the end has made people think the movie is better than it actually is. If you remove that twist ending, the movie is just ok. My fave twist is Saw 2. “He’s in a safe place” I love that!
I don't get this critique. The ending IS a part of the movie. So saying if that ending wasn't there ppl wouldn't have liked the movie as much is kinda redundant. Loving an ending to a movie effects your overall enjoyment of it
My issue with saw 2 was too many characters. I would’ve liked it more if we had more time to see their traps and hear their tapes . But outside of that minor nitpick it was fine
9:43 The fact that the whole test was because Rigg kicked down the door to the room where Kerry's body was was kind of funny. "You wanted to see if you could save your friend? You don't appreciate your life."
I think the point was because he kicked the door but he didn't clear the area. Not to mention he's dealing with "Jigsaw" so the whole house could of been a trap to get everyone killed. He's on SWAT and didn't even clear the area for traps..HIS JOB!!!!! So yea Riggs got what he deserve. Even the test itself told him just Wait an hour😂. Hoffman actually liked him too. Just wanted to teach him a lesson
...I'm someone who didn't see the Dr. Gordon twist coming. At the time, knowing that movie was being billed as the finale, I just figured a lot of past faces would be brought on as a swan song (which was kind of the case with the survivor focus group at the start) and loose ends would be tied up, so I didn't think anything more of his appearances at the start.
it's funny because I actually searched youtube for this video topic, but didn't find one now you, a youtuber i watch quite often, ends up posting a video about it
I can imagine that it was hard to make a shocking twist with Saw X because it’s always the bad guy getting the upper hand. This time the bad guys get screwed
To be honest, I loved every saw movie with the exception of like spiral and some of jigsaw and maybe some of others like the public execution trap. Idk why saw 4-7 gets so much hate because I thought it was really good especially how 3D did something that connects to the original and wraps things up
7 was bad because it was mostly a story that had nothing to do with the main story. then they mixed in hoffman and tried to wrap it all up at the end too quickly. it was supposed to be 2 movies but was forced into 1. the 3D wasnt that great either. but 4-6 I enjoyed especially 5 and 6
@@Adog00 The Bobby part, he had nothing to do with anything he was just thrown in there for some reason to fill in time is all i can think of. and then the trap at the start with the couple lol I just feel for such a long saga that already had alot going on and the high expectations being the final chapter that they didnt do the movie justice by having the bobby story and certain scenes. and there should of been way more Gordan in the movie.
@@thebest12700I agree that Gordon shoulda been more involved for sure and I hate that public execution trap! But Bobby in the movie was a nice addition I feel and really gave a different feel to a trap trial
I disagree with Strahm's death. That room was DESIGNED to kill him. Come on you really think Hoffman would've let him get away with evidence. He gets in the glass coffin Strahm would still get crushed to death due to Hoffman probably had a key or a button to make the coffin stay up while the crushing walls continue as normal. Strahm is dying in that room regardless of whatever choice he makes.
The Dr Gordon twist did have bread crumbs throughout the series. I knew of the twist around saw 4 because of early TH-cam videos people made showing all the bread crumbs. The only one I can remember right now it when it shows "jigsaw" putting the key beside the eye of the guy in the Venus fly trap. "Jigsaw" is clearly limping or dragging along like he was missing a foot.
Hey Cody! I noticed in your Saw 3D twist you noted that Dr. Lawrence Gordon didn't have any tip offs in prior movies. In Saw II for the Venus Flytrap in the TV footage you can see a hobble in the surgeon's step for that game! We also did have a note dropped off at his office in Saw VI by Jill. Just wanted to note those two little things beforehand. There might be others I missed
Good ranking, the first 2 and saw x are clearly the best overall movies of the series, as for twists the 2nd movie was always the most effective for me
I agree 100%. While Saw is the granddaddy, I like Saw II just a tad more. I’m a sucker for locked location dwindling party films. And I was floored by the end. Never saw it coming, just like the first.
In the case of Saw 3D, and I kid you not, they asked fans on The Official Saw Forum (not sure if they did the same on House of Jigsaw, because I wasn't a member there) 5 different questions about what they wanted in the movie and just shoved it all in. Questions like "Would you like to see the Original Reverse Bear Trap, or the new Reverse Bear Trap be used?" and "should Lawrence Gordon return?" A lot of members joked after that the fans wrote the movie.
Not a huge point because the twist was poorly executed but a chunk of the fan base (including myself) were onto the idea that Gordon was helping because people had already noticed that when "jigsaw" was doing a medical thing in Saw 2 was clearly limping. So it wasn't completely out of nowhere even if it was pretty poorly done.
In Spiral's defense, some of the trap scenes were supposed to be much longer, including the skin and finger traps. Unfortunately, the MPAA essentially said "hell no" and the editors were forced to cut the scenes down a ton. I feel like if the scenes were left in as the directors initially intended, the twist may have been more impactful
I found the Spiral twist so much more obvious than Saw VII. I genuinely couldn't see the Dr. Gordon twist coming, whereas I knew the rookie was gonna be faux Jigsaw very early on. However, an important piece of context is that I watched the first seven Saw movies for the first time as a marathon, so Saw VII came at 10am after a night of not sleeping
"Cop tries to do the right thing, gets crushed." lol I was mad that Strahm died too but thats also what I like about Saw sometimes the people you think would make it don't and vice versa.
12:07 - *slowly raises hand in shame* I'm one of them. .... In my only defense, I didn't recall Dr. Gordon showing up during the group therapy scene or whatever, so I might have gone to the bathroom or something and missed it.
Spiral could have easily made it seem like Schenk died by showing how his death would have been played out, but it was just in Chris Rock's head. It would be a cop out and another "dream" sequence, but at least seeing it would have kept the mystery going and made the reveal actually shocking.
I'm someone who was genuinely surprised about Dr Gordon being the main apprentice to Jigsaw Cody and here's why. When you have a movie titled the final chapter, you usually have alot of fan service in those type of movies. So, I felt that way seeing Dr. Gordon in that movie. But when those 3 people in pig mask attacked Hoffman after he killed Jill and the he revealed himself to Hoffman as the one who was helping jigsaw all along with out Amanda or Hoffman knowing, I let out a legitimate what the fuck in the theater. I was shocked that he was in on it. Amanda to me was more obvious as an apprentice then Gordon. Why would she return in 2 if she already won her game and proves herself worthy of life? Because she was helping jigsaw all along. There was no way she was gonna be tested twice. So that's why I was legitimately shocked at Gordon's reviel. I hope we can talk about it if you still want to.
Interesting. To me it was one of the most obvious twists I’ve ever seen. I think even before the movie releases I was thinking that was the only card they had left to play.
@CodyLeachYT Thats very fair and I definitely see where your coming from. I hope you and your family are doing well. BTW saw your Halloween set up on Instagram. Where did you find those different inflatables? Was it Amazon? I want the leatherface and chucky ones!
I just found your channel by watching your reviews of the series 3 at a time. I heard soo much ravings about Hoffman. That to hear you say on this video how kuch you don't like him is weird
I remember showing my parents “Saw” when it came out on video and they were like, “That guy on the floor is the killer.” Lol And then they were asking, “So how did a dying man manage to do all this alone?” I feel like all of the Saw sequels have been trying to fix previous plot holes while inadvertently creating new ones ever since. But I do think “Saw 2” did the closest job at ending things right.
The thing that annoyed me most about the 2017 Jigsaw was that Callum Keith Rennie plays a fantastic villain, and easily could've been a great lead for a spinoff franchise. If you ever saw him in Battlestar Galactica, you know how creepy he can be. Instead they went with the other guy, and killed Rennie's character. The "twist" in Jigsaw was that they had a great option and went with a worse one.
First of all, this was a very well done video and I will tune in to see more of your videos, especially the ones on Saw. However, I do believe that your dislike for Hoffman has biased your opinions on movies 4 through 7 and on their twists. The Saw 4 twist was two fold, remember it was revealed to be happening simultaneously with Saw 3, that was very cool. The Hoffman getting up at the end to reveal he was an apprentice as well was better than you described. An apprentice reveal at that point was not played out. It made sense that Jigsaw had someone on the inside of the police force helping him, as well as someone strong enough to physically capture and setup some of those traps. John was too sick and Amanda too small and not strong enough. The Saw 3D reveal of Dr Gordon in the pigmask capturing Hoffman and locking him in the original Saw bathroom while not shocking, was the ending we needed. It made sense. It was satisfying. Now if Gordon hadnt been seen at the beginning of the movie and during the Jigsaw survivors meeting, him showing up at the end would have been shocking. Thats what I would have done by the way. That being said, i agree that the twists to Saw 1, 2, and 3 are the top 3, I would just switch 1 and 2 around. I agree that the Jigsaw twist was the weakest. I think the twist in Saw X is up at the 4th spot because i kept wondering how Jigsaw was going to get out of the dire predictament he was in. So it was a cool twist that he had an ace up his sleeve. Also i dont take points away for he evil doctor Cecilia to be left alive because Jigsaw believed everyone deserved a chance and she had the will to survive.
Great list cody. Have you ever seen 80s films with betsy russell (jill tuck). She was in tomboy, private school, cheerleader camp. Worth checking out. Especially private school.
8:00 the tests being about 'letting people save themselves' was less about a moral stance like most tests, and more about teaching him to be the next jigsaw apprentice "will you learn how to let go and truly save them", as jigsaw views the people going through his tests as them 'saving themselves'. It's especially noticeable when you look at the traps he was involved with: The scalping trap was about not trying to intervene in jigsaws tests. The bed trap was giving an example of the type of people jigsaw targets. The school trap was demonstrating the positive result of a tests. and the final part of the test was to see if he learnt his lesson and would leave the others alone to presumably their own test (which he failed).
I thought Dr Gordon was foreshadowed in 2 since when the tape of the surgery is shown to the Venus Flytrap guy, you can see the surgeon kind of limping. I though that it was Gordon getting used to not having a leg or something. Then again, it's a REALLY small detail so I don't know if they did actually have it planned.
as for the spiral scene where the character gets skinned, the reason there was only a few clips of the flashback is because darren bousman the director had issues with the MPA due to how graphic the scene was, so it had to be massively cut down (which is crazy considering there are movies with far worse gore)
I remember the House of Jigsaw days when the constant running theory was Gordon coming back. It surprised nobody, but it was fun and it finally ended the speculation.
Spiral had the most predictable ending. I figured out that shenk was the copycat in the first 11 minutes...he tells zeke (your father is the reason I'm here. The reason for all of this) so stupid of the writer and director. Those words should have never come out of shenks mouth
I can’t remember when I first watched saw 7 but I think i was so far behind watching it was spoiled he was an apprentice. And Spiral. I remember thinking i was so smart because i guessed who the killer was😭😂
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How does no one ever talk about the twist that Saw IV is going on at the exact same time as Saw III? I always thought that was a pretty cool element to that film, it makes sense as we didn't see any of those characters in Saw III and I always thought it made those two films go together really well.
literally!!! that’s the only reason i like saw 4 is bc of the time twist and hoffman being an apprentice
I think that's why people rate it lower. It throws them off
No one talks about it because it's lame. It's a twist for Twists sake.
@@familydog i mean that’s a core part of the saw franchise, having twists for twists sakes when the hello zepp music starts playing. it’s not a saw movie w out them
and i like this time twist just like saw 2, however the time twist fell flat and became stale in jigsaw which is a sucky movie in general
@jalynlovesbtr There is a difference between bad twists and twists for twists sake. Most the saw twists are bad twists. Part 4 was just a twist for twists sake.
Honestly I liked the other twist in saw 5 where it’s revealed that everyone could have survived if they all worked together, but because most of the people playing the game were solely focused on saving themselves many players died
that's one of the things saw 5 did well
Twist itself isnt really that bad it was just very predictible IMO
Yeah imo THIS is the twist. Not the cop plot stuff. And while the cop plot of V does drag the rest of the movie down, I think the trap plot twist ranks higher
Yeah, the trap plot of 5 was one of my favorite (especially given the two characters work together at the end and survive), the entire Hoffman plot bores me to death though
Because he said "you want to do individually but I implore you to do the opposite" WORK TOGETHER
i love how this whole franchise started from "my doctor wasn’t friendly enough”
That is also false, his doctor treated him terribly, nobody goes to the doctors to get disrespected when having a life ending illness. Like how at someone’s funeral you don’t talk bad about the person that died
He got cuckoo from a crackhead killing his wife's unborn baby that's just why he tested lawwwwrence
I love how you fail to grasp a concept yet run your mouth
@@bradheltonmagee9980 I'm sorry I hurt you so deeply, that you need to resort to weak insults, with my benign comment. I hope you are ok.
@CsykKrit 🤣 if you view what I said as an insult you're a complete dipshit
Saw 3D was originally supposed to be an epic two part finale, but the studio said no and made them crush two scripts onto one film. Because of this, several plot points were dropped. For example, the guys in the pig masks with Gordon at the end were actually the two guys in the "Bros Before Hoes" trap at the beginning of the movie. Adam was going to be revealed to not be dead. His body in the room had been switched out with Tapp's body, hence the inconsistency of the gunshot on the dead body. The original ending would have been Gordon and Adam shutting the door on Hoffman TOGETHER and collectively saying "Game Over," while the survivors in that meeting stand behind them chanting "He helped me." Absolutely KILLS ME that the studio didn't allow this to happen. Honestly, listen to the writers commentary on the film. These two had SOOOO many cool ideas that were cut by the studio. Such a shame. For the record, this in NO WAY makes Saw 3D better but I can at least understand why Gordon's presence was so messily represented given this information.
this sounds so cool! i'm lowkey mad this didn't come to fruition
I know that due to Saw VI underperforming at the box office cancelled the original plans for 3D to be made into a two part finale but I didn’t think that this is what could’ve been. The idea of Gordon and Adam working together against Hoffman in the final scene with all of John’s survivors chanting “He helped me.” sounds awesome and with the Hello Zepp track would’ve been the icing on the cake.
Do you have a link to a video or interview where the writers talk about this abandoned script?
@@bladersmosh the DVD commentary by the writers.
@@FilmMasterAdam Thanks. I feel like if that plan had gone through and the twist with Dr. Gordon was set up more in advance and subtler, than I think we might have gotten a more satisfying OG finale. It might not have fixed the problems of the final product we did get but with the ideas you’ve said, it feels like wasted potential which is sad. Thankfully, after Saw X, it looks like the franchise looks set to be reinvented in the right direction.
Thanks for the info!
What I love about Saw 2 is that it has 3 twists. The safe, the time, and the apprentice.
And it worked so well. It's not a convoluted plan with like 20 steps and requires a ton of luck and coincedence.
Yeah, I think it is one of the movies where all of the twists compliments each other very well without it being shoehorned.
The live feed being not live, which sets up the mystery, the time being up, which opens up a safe, revealing the kid, and Amanda being the main wearer of the pig mask since around Saw 1 and her, being the next "Jigsaw" which felt very satisfying.
Favorite saw film for sure!
Eh...is good but there is 1 thing about Saw 2 that is pure luck: Xavier. What if Xavier killed Amanda in the game? Daniel would have been totally unprotected and probably would have died, actuallt Xavier could have killed Amanda like 2 times in the movie, but aprat from that Saw 2 is GOATED
I thought Saw and Saw 2 not only had the best twists but they complimented each other so well.
True
Still the best of the franchise throw in 10 as well and that’s the top 3
@@justjbeats424110’s twist was stupid imo. U cant call it a twist because if john and amanda are alive in saw 2, u already knew they had a way to come out of their own trap.
Hot take but i think saw iv’s is a good one, seeing jeff at the end of that one honestly shocked tf out of me, realizing saw iv was happening at the same time of saw 3? Like wtf? Did not expect that. Saw 3d’s was obvious as fuck though as soon as they brought in dr gordon in the way they did at the jigsaw meeting and in the beginning.
@@justjbeats4241 10's ending just really irked me the wrong way, and I know that even the good movies in this franchise were never known for it's acting but I felt some of the actors in 10 were particularly bad. Still very enjoyable movie and I would watch it again.
The Saw3 and Saw4 twists are excessively underrated
Another thing I noticed about the ending of Saw X, is that it ends with doors opening and a slow fade to white in contrast to the usual endings where the doors are closed to an abrupt black screen.
I loved that contrast
Saw IV always made sense to me: Rigg is being tested because he doesn't appreciate HIS life enough: he's going through unsecured doors risking it for no reason, he's very ignorant to his wife and his family life as a whole, and is fully driven by his obsession with Jigsaw. The test itself wasn't meant to kill him, he only died because Eric shot him. Even if he had failed and walked through the door at the end, that wouldn't have killed him, it would have only killed Eric
I don't know, still seems like a shitty reason to put someone in a trap. Dude was literally doing his job. Seemed a lot more like the killers taking out the biggest opposition. That's my biggest problem with the series, how are these the people being tested, instead of people doing real harm to themselves or others?
Oh so erics trap was inescapable too?! Smdh. I really liked eric!
@@sour3000how was it inescapable?
@@sour3000eric failed his test in saw 2, he should’ve died beforehand anyways
@@sour3000It was escapable
My interpretation for the Saw x teeter totter trap was that they planned to give Cecilia control of the game but it was designed for John and Amanda to do while Cecilia traps herself in the money room. The game went off the rails when she got the kid involved.
That is exactly what was supposed to happen
Fun fact: Spiral was actually pitched at a wedding Chris Rock had attended. He met a Lionsgate exec or writer or something, and went "Hey you work on Saw right? I like Saw." Then we got Spiral. I just think that's such a stupid origin for a movie, especially because Saw X was put on hold.
For me:
10.) Jigsaw
09.) Saw 7
08.) Spiral
07.) Saw 5
06.) Saw 4
05.) Saw 10
04.) Saw 6
03.) Saw 3
02.) Saw 2
01.) Saw
The original twist was so great and memorable that the studios decided to force a twist into every single installment, to very mixed results.
Solid ranking, here's mine, if you don't mind.
1.] Saw II
2.] Saw
3.] Saw III
•
4.) Saw X
5.) Saw VI
6.) Saw IV
7.) Saw V
•
8.} Spiral
9.} Saw VII
10.} Jigsaw
@@legzzzzz mine is probably a little unusual:
unranked: saw IX, saw X
8-saw VIII
7-saw V
6-saw III
5-saw VI
4-saw IV
3-saw VII
2-saw II
1-saw
I will never forget the first time I saw Saw and the ending with him getting up off the floor at the end. Crazy twist
Good list.
I always thought the Saw 4 Twist was pretty good. Not that Hoffman was an apprentice. But the fact both Saw 4 and Saw 3 were taking place at the same time was so cool and surprising. Probably my second favorite twist after Saw 2
Yeah I remember not enjoying Saw 4 as much when it came out but I did love the twist. When it reaches the end and Strahm enters the room with Jeff and Jigsaw's dead corpse I was like holy shit.
Took my dumbass teenage brain a rewatch to figure out they were happening at the same time. Ever since I liked the movie much more than the first time watching.
Another twist from Saw VI was Hoffman’s letter to Amanda and why she shot Lynn in Saw III.
there's also a post-credit scene where Amanda is talking to Jeff's daughter but it doesn't go anywhere and is kinda irrelevant
I think that letter is the only reason why I like Saw 6 because I love Saw 3 and the letter added to Saw 3 nicely.
@@EnchantedTooWell rumors the daughter is the next jigsaw
I think in saw X the blood boarding trap was meant for John and Amanda. They knew how to get out of the locks once the gas trap started
The original Saw, in my opinion, is the greatest plot twist of the 2000s. I wish I could’ve been there to see it in 2004
I still remember being 17 years old and me and my best friend went and saw it in the theaters. When the twist happened in the original saw our jaws dropped wide open when he stood up and wasn’t dead at all. Gave me freaking chills. Still do!
I know it must've been unreal
The body on the floor was still surprising to me, but unfortunately I was a bit spoiled on Zepp because I recognized Tobin Bell's voice after he played a villain on 24. So unless they were doing some kind of weird voice distortion idea for the tapes, I knew Tobin Bell was going to be playing the mastermind.
@@mdp720 That sucks!! I do think it was supposed to be obvious that Zepp was a red herring but if you know Tobin Bells voice and then recognize him on the hospital bed that would absolutely suck.
Unfortunately I watched the first movie when I was about 8 years old. I enjoyed it but I didn’t catch on to the twist. I just thought it was weird that the dead guy was getting up.
who did you think the dead guy was??@@thetomgreenshow
The best Saw twist is when Shaq and Dr Phil are in the room and Dr Phil cuts off the wrong foot
The first two films had great twists. I can still remember how my jaw dropped when they found out the streaming was not live.
They had a couple of hints in the other saw movies about Gordons fate. There was the eyeball trap in Saw 2, where we saw the person who planted the key in Mikes eye walked with a limp, and Jill dropping off that letter in Saw 5, alerting Gordon to Hoffmans activities. Theres not a ton there but its fun to look back on nevertheless. Also, I believe that Lions gate is still developing a TV Series continuation of Spiral. I hope they go through with it despite the sucess of X
That would be cool to see a continuation of Spiral in a series but definitely bring back Chris Rock and the villain. The movie wasn’t too bad but covid ruined it just like it ruined the last Matrix.
definitely hope they continue Spiral. a tv show could be cool
@@gman2015zyea I honestly don’t get the hate it received but I think it’s a lot of people that just want Tobin in the movies even tho this was a cool way to remove him and it no be a direct apprentice but a copy cat of some form
The blood boarding trap was meant for Amanda and jigsaw and the kid as John said “an unforeseen circumstance”
wait i thought it was meant for cecilia originally but john and amanda planned to take it cause their plan A didn’t go well, but cecelia flipped it by adding the kid, which is why amanda was panicking? pls correct me cause i wanna know! lol
@@st4rgazings470why would they design a trap with the capacity for two people and only use it on one person. They planned to be in that trap, they knew how to get out of the restraints after Celia was in the gas trap.
So I think the plan was for Parker and Cecilia to be tested. That’s the plan. But to test them they either could be put in the gas or the bloodboarding. If it was the blood then they both could’ve survived like John and Carlos did in the gas only 1 could’ve. If it was the gas he knew he would’ve done the blood and his idea was Amanda to also do it in which they could easily beat it because they know how to and they actually like each other. The only thing he didn’t think of was Carlos being there in which he told Carlos “don’t pull” so he wouldn’t be punished for nothing but he did anyway to save John. Basically John had multiple outs to what the subjects picked.
Original Saw twist all the way. We didn’t know to expect a twist. Not only that.. the twist is just so darn good. There was never any reason to think the guy in the middle of the room was alive.
I’m so happy you are going in depth for the saw films, it’s one of my fav franchises!
I thought Cecelia got the worst of the fake miracle cure crew. All the others are dead and done with. Cecelia however is going to suffer. The gas has stopped pouring into room but it’s still in the air. Basically Cecelia is trapped in the air hole and her only options left are starve to death or go back inside the room and meet the same fate as Parker. It’s genius I think, the poisonous gas is a metaphor for cancer eating away at the person and the air hole is a metaphor for the little bit of hope that is still there even though there is clearly no chance of survival.
check the deleted scene the gas is gone
My one gripe with saw X is they show the gas vapors eating at the dudes flesh at one point, wouldnt that mean that cecilia should be dead too since her whole body is still exposed to the gas? Seems like plot hole that alot of people look over.
My guess is the gas has to be inhaled. Probably some kind of nerve gas. Probably similar to what was is the ventilation system of the house that was home to the Saw 2 trap.
@@fnkevin6307 that's what I was gonna say! The gas probably had to be inhaled
And couldn't they just take turns and therefore both live
@@crypt5129 I thought they couldn't do that, but now thinking about it, they probably could! but they weren't selfless like Jigsaw and the kid in the other trap! Wow.
@@sour3000 Maybe but the end result and how the hole was designed? I suspect some of Jigsaw's traps have... lasting effects... in this case, Cecilia might be condemned to a fate worse then death for cheating John Kramer out of every single person in that hospital... maybe that could be how the opening act of Saw 11 goes or involved: just how screwed she brought it on herself
Cody, you look so happy and healthy lately. Whatever you got going on is helping you shine bright
I remember way back when saw 2 came out, the message boards theorized Gordon being an apprentice because the guy at the beggining was limping, and doing complicated eye surgery. And they ended up being right.
I would probably say that Saw II is my favorite. It’s a really surprising twist, it lines up with everything that has taken place, and it actually leaves the viewer very satisfied, which I can’t say about a lot of Saw twists. As interesting as the Saw franchise is, I don’t think I wouldn’t have minded if the franchise took an eighteen year break until the greatness of Saw X came along.
Saw 3 had 3 twists. The last twist was jigsaw being responsible for the loss of Jeff’s child. And he meant the daughter.
at least mark gave her to the police so she wasn't kept locked in
Good video Cody! Glad you liked Saw X so much, that you're doing more videos about the Franchise. Saw II is also my favorite twist, and it still is my favorite Saw movie.
while its a bit nuanced and there are definitely "worse" people to "test", I think Rigg wasn't being tested because he wants to save people, but that his obsessive behavior and blindsided recklessness leads to danger to the people around him. Again, in the grand scheme of people being tested its definitely weaker, but Hoffman probably picked him out like you said. Great video! I'm really enjoying these Saw videos from you ^^
I'm a massive Hoffman fan, but I agree with most of your rankings here man. Great video.
The twist at the end of Saw 4 where that and Saw 3 entwine blew my mind when watching it for the first time, not only that but 5 picks up so quickly after when Straum is still in the warehouse and get put in the box trap.
The combination of the two narratives makes the viewer try to dissect the last hour hour if film they've watched, as well as all of Saw 3, which you may have only seen once the year prior. The idea is so much fun, and it's also pretty well pieced together.
great list dude. I really hope that they keep the momentum going from Saw X. Also agree about wanting a follow up to Spiral
I so wish Amanda continued on so much longer. I was floored by her reveal in saw 2 and completely deflated by her death in saw 3. Saw 3 was the last saw movie I actually watched until saw x.
I’m with you there. I remember being floored by the sequel’s ending only to go into III and, while shocked, also feel like, “That’s it?” I can understand the arc for the character, but we needed a film or two in between to show the cracks. Hoffman ended up the same way. I thought the reveal was good, then they just followed Amanda’s arc and ended up just as psycho as poor Amanda did.
I personally understood the Saw X twist a little differently. While you said John had planned for Cecilia and the lover to end up in either one of the final traps, what I understood was that John had always planned to end up in the blood boarding trap. John never does anything by accident, there's no way he would not have known there would be a possibility of him ending up in that trap, especially since we know Amanda called Parker. They knew he would show up there and we know they knew him and Cecilia were lovers and that he would try to save Cecilia. Knowing this, they still let him see that they had a gun (despite taking the bullets out) and didn't let him take the money sooner (because it would have set off the gas too early). Amanda and John knew at one point he would take that gun and try to overpower them and flip the game on John and Amanda. It wouldn't have made sense for them to play along otherwise because Amanda and John took the bullets from the gun. There was no chance Parker could have killed them with that gun, so why didn't they just try to take him down instead of getting into the blood boarding trap if it wasn't planned? John got into the trap because Parker was holding the gun to them, but the gun wasn't loaded and they knew that? Also earlier in the movie, the camera focused for more than just a few seconds on Carlos playing with the football against the building with his father, which is exactly where he was playing football when Cecilia caught him on the cameras and then brought him in to be part of the blood boarding trap. I don't think any of this was accidental, John is too smart for that. He knew Carlos would be there since he saw him playing there before, and knew Cecilia was a bad enough person that she could involve a child to get John to sacrifice himself. So I think part of the twist was that John and Amanda went along with pretending they weren't supposed to be placed into the trap and pretend that John was dying, knowing that Cecilia would let him die, run to get the money with Parker before leaving, and eventually set off the final gas room. There's also a moment before Parker and Cecilia grab the money where Parker looks at John and Carlos in the trap and says 'that trap would never have worked without two people'. Since we found out only seconds later that John and Amanda knew of Parker's involvement, I don't think that line was alluding to that. I think what it was meant to signify was that John planned to be there with another person in the trap to trick them. Didn't the blood boarding trap also release John and Carlos as soon as the bag of money was lifted and the gas in the room activated? So basically John knew they would selfishly not leave without the money and so he would only be confined to the trap for as long as it took them to get the money, which wouldn't be long enough for the trap to kill him. If that is the case, it definitely adds more layers to the twist and makes it even more WTF for me. I also don't think John would have gone through the process of setting up two separate traps in case one wouldn't work out intentionally. We have never seen that before. John is very meticulous in the way he plans out his traps for each specific victim, I doubt he would be there thinking 'oh I'll make two for Cecilia and Parker in case the first one isn't successful'. John is always successful 🤣 and would never willingly leave anything to chance. So I think the blood boarding trap was never meant to be for Cecilia (I might be very wrong but that's what I got from the montage reveal when everything was being explained).
I like to think John knew Cecilia would win if things went how we saw, but if Parker went along with everything and they went into the Blood Board Trap until completion, Parker would have won out of brute forcing the lever...so it was like a game inside a game.
Thats the longest comment ive ever read lol
It wasn't meant for Cecilia but having the kid there was indeed an "unforeseen circumstance." No way John would have planned to blood board an innocent kid. It was supposed to be him and Amanda in there and he was prepared to die for the kid if need be
@@moses9647 Notice how John gestured to Amanda before like "remember how we rehearsed it".
Great essay
Omg the audience all gasped at the twist of saw 1. I was so chilled and felt like I walked out in shock. 😂
Literally thank you so much for mentioning Adam, to this day I find it so ridiculous how hypocritical Jigsaw is for the result of that character.
That’s one of the biggest flaws in the franchise is how wishy washy they are with the rules and morals. It’s a shame it wasn’t executed tighter in that regard.
Love when Cody shares his thoughts on Hoffman. This time was pretty tame lol but I too can't bear to watch the movies where's he's a big focal point of the story. No matter how many times I try to give them a shot, they are always a draaaaggg and I know it's because I just can't become invested in his character.
He's just not as interesting as John Kramer was because he comes off as a stereotypical murderer. I can buy into the fact that John has an incredibly twisted sense of justice and that he sees his games as a path to redemption. I can't buy that with Hoffman's sadistic ass. He's self-serving and comes off as if he never truly believed in John's philosophies, only using them to further his own sick goals.
Best character in the whole series
@@slappytheclown4 wrong
I remember the marking of saw five being “you won’t believe how it ends” and I was like I completely knew how it was going to end 😂
The first two films have amazing twists and I honestly think 4, 6, 3, and Saw X have awesome endings too. Spiral was a bit obvious and 5 is just okay. Jigsaw makes absolutely no sense and 7 is horrible too
Saw 5 was the “no twist” ending lol, basically the twist was that there was no twist hahaha.
Personally I think 1, 6 and 7 had the best endings. Rest were predictable or boring. X was decent
@@darthvader9710 2 was not predicable in any way when it first came out. 2’s ending was so good that it solidified the trope of Saw’s twist endings and became the blueprint for the rest of the series. maybe nowadays 2’s ending may be predictable since it’s an old movie and the internet exists, but when it came out it was phenomenal. the secret apprentice angle was brand new and the timeline shenanigans were layered and intelligent. I still remember the reactions from the theater screening I went to, everyone had their head in their hands and was freaking out!
Loving all this Saw content! Saw X definitely got me back into the franchise and rewatching them for the spooky season.
Of all the cool shit that you have in this room. Why did my eyes immediately shoot to the Survivor bandana casually hanging out on the desk in the background? 🤣
I feel like Saw 2 has a way bigger impact than 1. Simply because the message/ lesson to be learned can be to taught to everyone. It feels like a cautionary folklore story told through this horror thriller. Not to mention the film drops hints in its setup to really make the ending earned.
Agreed
Really liked Saw X but that twist was definitely in the top 3 most painfully obvious along with Spiral and Saw 3D. Was anyone really surprised that Jigsaw had a trap set up for them?
Respect your reasonings! But for me, Matthews’s head getting crushed between ice blocks made Saw IV the most memorable of all the endings for me. On a rewatch Hoffman seems so obvious, but I was really shocked by the ice blocks.
The idea of the cop that keep saving everyone makes sense to die because he is getting in the way of people finding out how much their life matters to them, instead of letting them fight for their life and realize what jigsaw wants everyone to value and stop taking for granted their life. Once it’s full on Hoffman it’s good that it’s not much of a lesson any more because Hoffman and jigsaw are different. When Hoffman gets out in the box and gets away it’s great because strohm finally has proof that he caught Hoffman but it cost him his life and it’s similar to the first movie when jigsaw stands up, the survivor for the moment watching jigsaw stand up shows so much fear and strohm when he realizes Hoffman tricked him has so much fear and anger representing the connection but difference in Hoffman and jigsaw
When I was younger. Back with the flip phone texting before smartphones came around and all, people used to send Forwarded Text Messages to everyone with ‘Hello Zepp’, jigsaws voice, and the laughter billy has with a picture of him too. It was telling you to be kind and respectful. Appreciate your life and send the FWD message, or you’ll get put into a game. LOL. I was afraid someone at the time would use jigsaw’s teachings in reality. It was VERY hyped back in the 2000s.
Im not entirely certain of the details, but Elwes was in a lawsuit with the production company for royalties he was promised in contract. This could have something to do with him not returning until late in the series. He had stated he's always enjoyed the premise of this franchise, and his return was definitely rushed.
loving all the Saw content lately - right on, dude!
for me the twists would be:
10. Jigsaw
9. Spiral
8. Saw V
7. Saw IV
6. Saw 3D
5. Saw X
4. Saw VI
3. Saw III
2. Saw
1. Saw II
Totally agree with you on the rose colored glasses people have on Saw 1. The acting mainly from Cary Elwes is so laughably bad in retrospect. I'm not sure if it was purposeful to create a campy vibe? But the rest of the movie is played straight though. The twist is way more obvious when you are looking for it but i think that is part of what makes a twist good.
Saw 3D has a similar issue to Predator in that if they excised the opening scene the surprise reveal would hit so much harder. I mean, if the scene of the ship coming to Earth wasn't at the start of Predator and you went into it blind (a lot easier in the 80's), you'd be watching it thinking it's your standard Arnie / 80's actioner and only when you get to the point where they "defeat the bad guys" a third of the way into the run-time would you start to think something else was afoot (and then the invisible alien would REALLY catch you off guard).
With Saw 3D, if they didn't have Gordon attend the meeting (or even had him in the shadows were the viewers couldn't make him out) and only revealed him at the end when he takes off the mask, THAT would have been a perfect twist and, as you said in the video, brought the Saw franchise to a satisfying full-circle conclusion.
Exactly! If I could edit movies, I'd love to do a fan-edit where I remove Gordon's appearances before the ending twist and add the opening scene showing how he survived with his foot sawed off in the flashbacks revealing Gordon to be Jigsaw's ultimate apprentice.
Saw 2 has the best twist and it was also my favorite movie in the franchise until saw X came out. Really enjoying these saw videos and I'm looking forward to the rest. Keep up the great work cody.
Yes! Saw’s twist at the end has made people think the movie is better than it actually is. If you remove that twist ending, the movie is just ok. My fave twist is Saw 2. “He’s in a safe place” I love that!
That’s such an odd way of looking at it though
I don't get this critique. The ending IS a part of the movie. So saying if that ending wasn't there ppl wouldn't have liked the movie as much is kinda redundant. Loving an ending to a movie effects your overall enjoyment of it
I agree, I thought Saw 1 was slightly boring if not for the ending and it hasn't aged well. Saw 2 set the standard for what the franchise became.
Even remembering all the twists through this franchise is impressive, definitely deserves a like 👍
My issue with saw 2 was too many characters. I would’ve liked it more if we had more time to see their traps and hear their tapes . But outside of that minor nitpick it was fine
9:43 The fact that the whole test was because Rigg kicked down the door to the room where Kerry's body was was kind of funny. "You wanted to see if you could save your friend? You don't appreciate your life."
I think the point was because he kicked the door but he didn't clear the area. Not to mention he's dealing with "Jigsaw" so the whole house could of been a trap to get everyone killed. He's on SWAT and didn't even clear the area for traps..HIS JOB!!!!! So yea Riggs got what he deserve. Even the test itself told him just Wait an hour😂. Hoffman actually liked him too. Just wanted to teach him a lesson
I appreciate your opinion because you admit your not a fan and i still enjoy your saw videos. Different perspectives never hurt
...I'm someone who didn't see the Dr. Gordon twist coming. At the time, knowing that movie was being billed as the finale, I just figured a lot of past faces would be brought on as a swan song (which was kind of the case with the survivor focus group at the start) and loose ends would be tied up, so I didn't think anything more of his appearances at the start.
it's funny because I actually searched youtube for this video topic, but didn't find one
now you, a youtuber i watch quite often, ends up posting a video about it
I can imagine that it was hard to make a shocking twist with Saw X because it’s always the bad guy getting the upper hand. This time the bad guys get screwed
I want the Spiral follow up so bad!
1, 2, 3, 6 & 10 are the best SAW movies. Not a coincidence - they are the ones with Amanda
To be honest, I loved every saw movie with the exception of like spiral and some of jigsaw and maybe some of others like the public execution trap. Idk why saw 4-7 gets so much hate because I thought it was really good especially how 3D did something that connects to the original and wraps things up
7 was bad because it was mostly a story that had nothing to do with the main story. then they mixed in hoffman and tried to wrap it all up at the end too quickly. it was supposed to be 2 movies but was forced into 1. the 3D wasnt that great either. but 4-6 I enjoyed especially 5 and 6
@@thebest12700nothing to do with the main story? Lawrence Gordon? Hoffman? Wdym? Are you just saying that cause of Bobby or?
@@thebest12700they should kept the Hoffman/strahm thing going or Hoffman vs Jill for part 7
@@Adog00 The Bobby part, he had nothing to do with anything he was just thrown in there for some reason to fill in time is all i can think of. and then the trap at the start with the couple lol I just feel for such a long saga that already had alot going on and the high expectations being the final chapter that they didnt do the movie justice by having the bobby story and certain scenes. and there should of been way more Gordan in the movie.
@@thebest12700I agree that Gordon shoulda been more involved for sure and I hate that public execution trap! But Bobby in the movie was a nice addition I feel and really gave a different feel to a trap trial
I disagree with Strahm's death. That room was DESIGNED to kill him. Come on you really think Hoffman would've let him get away with evidence. He gets in the glass coffin Strahm would still get crushed to death due to Hoffman probably had a key or a button to make the coffin stay up while the crushing walls continue as normal. Strahm is dying in that room regardless of whatever choice he makes.
The Dr Gordon twist did have bread crumbs throughout the series. I knew of the twist around saw 4 because of early TH-cam videos people made showing all the bread crumbs. The only one I can remember right now it when it shows "jigsaw" putting the key beside the eye of the guy in the Venus fly trap. "Jigsaw" is clearly limping or dragging along like he was missing a foot.
Hey Cody! I noticed in your Saw 3D twist you noted that Dr. Lawrence Gordon didn't have any tip offs in prior movies. In Saw II for the Venus Flytrap in the TV footage you can see a hobble in the surgeon's step for that game! We also did have a note dropped off at his office in Saw VI by Jill. Just wanted to note those two little things beforehand. There might be others I missed
Good ranking, the first 2 and saw x are clearly the best overall movies of the series, as for twists the 2nd movie was always the most effective for me
I agree 100%. While Saw is the granddaddy, I like Saw II just a tad more. I’m a sucker for locked location dwindling party films. And I was floored by the end. Never saw it coming, just like the first.
In the case of Saw 3D, and I kid you not, they asked fans on The Official Saw Forum (not sure if they did the same on House of Jigsaw, because I wasn't a member there) 5 different questions about what they wanted in the movie and just shoved it all in.
Questions like "Would you like to see the Original Reverse Bear Trap, or the new Reverse Bear Trap be used?" and "should Lawrence Gordon return?" A lot of members joked after that the fans wrote the movie.
I really don't understand why so many people dislike Hoffman. For me he's such an interesting character and I hope we see more of him in Saw XI.
Not a huge point because the twist was poorly executed but a chunk of the fan base (including myself) were onto the idea that Gordon was helping because people had already noticed that when "jigsaw" was doing a medical thing in Saw 2 was clearly limping. So it wasn't completely out of nowhere even if it was pretty poorly done.
4:38 The whole "He accidentally mislabelled John's X-ray so his cancer wasn't caught in time" was dumb too.
In Spiral's defense, some of the trap scenes were supposed to be much longer, including the skin and finger traps.
Unfortunately, the MPAA essentially said "hell no" and the editors were forced to cut the scenes down a ton. I feel like if the scenes were left in as the directors initially intended, the twist may have been more impactful
I found the Spiral twist so much more obvious than Saw VII. I genuinely couldn't see the Dr. Gordon twist coming, whereas I knew the rookie was gonna be faux Jigsaw very early on.
However, an important piece of context is that I watched the first seven Saw movies for the first time as a marathon, so Saw VII came at 10am after a night of not sleeping
"Cop tries to do the right thing, gets crushed." lol I was mad that Strahm died too but thats also what I like about Saw sometimes the people you think would make it don't and vice versa.
I also want a new spiral movie, it just felt like a fresh take on saw and I would love to see a follow up
12:07 - *slowly raises hand in shame* I'm one of them. .... In my only defense, I didn't recall Dr. Gordon showing up during the group therapy scene or whatever, so I might have gone to the bathroom or something and missed it.
Am I the only one that actually likes the Lawrence Gordon twist? I like him being a better Jigsaw than John Kramer himself.
The Saw 3D twist proves they weren't planning these movies out when it became an annual thing
they were all directed/written by different people
Spiral could have easily made it seem like Schenk died by showing how his death would have been played out, but it was just in Chris Rock's head. It would be a cop out and another "dream" sequence, but at least seeing it would have kept the mystery going and made the reveal actually shocking.
I'm someone who was genuinely surprised about Dr Gordon being the main apprentice to Jigsaw Cody and here's why. When you have a movie titled the final chapter, you usually have alot of fan service in those type of movies. So, I felt that way seeing Dr. Gordon in that movie. But when those 3 people in pig mask attacked Hoffman after he killed Jill and the he revealed himself to Hoffman as the one who was helping jigsaw all along with out Amanda or Hoffman knowing, I let out a legitimate what the fuck in the theater. I was shocked that he was in on it. Amanda to me was more obvious as an apprentice then Gordon. Why would she return in 2 if she already won her game and proves herself worthy of life? Because she was helping jigsaw all along. There was no way she was gonna be tested twice. So that's why I was legitimately shocked at Gordon's reviel. I hope we can talk about it if you still want to.
Interesting. To me it was one of the most obvious twists I’ve ever seen. I think even before the movie releases I was thinking that was the only card they had left to play.
@CodyLeachYT Thats very fair and I definitely see where your coming from. I hope you and your family are doing well. BTW saw your Halloween set up on Instagram. Where did you find those different inflatables? Was it Amazon? I want the leatherface and chucky ones!
Pretty sure it was Amazon, yes.
@CodyLeachYT thanks cody! Glad your well!
I just found your channel by watching your reviews of the series 3 at a time. I heard soo much ravings about Hoffman. That to hear you say on this video how kuch you don't like him is weird
I remember showing my parents “Saw” when it came out on video and they were like, “That guy on the floor is the killer.” Lol
And then they were asking, “So how did a dying man manage to do all this alone?”
I feel like all of the Saw sequels have been trying to fix previous plot holes while inadvertently creating new ones ever since.
But I do think “Saw 2” did the closest job at ending things right.
You’re not the only one Cody, I also want a follow up to Spiral.
Loving your Saw content buddy!! Great job!!
Glad you enjoy it!
I know it's hard to come up with endings to Saw films but my god Jigsaw's was infuriating.
Saw , Saw 2, and Saw 4 have my favorite twists. The presentation was so much better back then.
The thing that annoyed me most about the 2017 Jigsaw was that Callum Keith Rennie plays a fantastic villain, and easily could've been a great lead for a spinoff franchise. If you ever saw him in Battlestar Galactica, you know how creepy he can be. Instead they went with the other guy, and killed Rennie's character. The "twist" in Jigsaw was that they had a great option and went with a worse one.
First of all, this was a very well done video and I will tune in to see more of your videos, especially the ones on Saw. However, I do believe that your dislike for Hoffman has biased your opinions on movies 4 through 7 and on their twists. The Saw 4 twist was two fold, remember it was revealed to be happening simultaneously with Saw 3, that was very cool. The Hoffman getting up at the end to reveal he was an apprentice as well was better than you described. An apprentice reveal at that point was not played out. It made sense that Jigsaw had someone on the inside of the police force helping him, as well as someone strong enough to physically capture and setup some of those traps. John was too sick and Amanda too small and not strong enough. The Saw 3D reveal of Dr Gordon in the pigmask capturing Hoffman and locking him in the original Saw bathroom while not shocking, was the ending we needed. It made sense. It was satisfying. Now if Gordon hadnt been seen at the beginning of the movie and during the Jigsaw survivors meeting, him showing up at the end would have been shocking. Thats what I would have done by the way. That being said, i agree that the twists to Saw 1, 2, and 3 are the top 3, I would just switch 1 and 2 around. I agree that the Jigsaw twist was the weakest. I think the twist in Saw X is up at the 4th spot because i kept wondering how Jigsaw was going to get out of the dire predictament he was in. So it was a cool twist that he had an ace up his sleeve. Also i dont take points away for he evil doctor Cecilia to be left alive because Jigsaw believed everyone deserved a chance and she had the will to survive.
I think they should alternate between the saw x timeline and the spiral timeline in terms of releases . I also really want a follow up to spiral
Adam from saw 1 doesn't starve to death Amanda kills him, it's possible he may have been found and lived but like always Amanda murdered someone
Great list cody.
Have you ever seen 80s films with betsy russell (jill tuck). She was in tomboy, private school, cheerleader camp. Worth checking out. Especially private school.
8:00 the tests being about 'letting people save themselves' was less about a moral stance like most tests, and more about teaching him to be the next jigsaw apprentice "will you learn how to let go and truly save them", as jigsaw views the people going through his tests as them 'saving themselves'. It's especially noticeable when you look at the traps he was involved with:
The scalping trap was about not trying to intervene in jigsaws tests.
The bed trap was giving an example of the type of people jigsaw targets.
The school trap was demonstrating the positive result of a tests.
and the final part of the test was to see if he learnt his lesson and would leave the others alone to presumably their own test (which he failed).
I thought Dr Gordon was foreshadowed in 2 since when the tape of the surgery is shown to the Venus Flytrap guy, you can see the surgeon kind of limping. I though that it was Gordon getting used to not having a leg or something.
Then again, it's a REALLY small detail so I don't know if they did actually have it planned.
To be fair… the blood boarding trap seemed like it was always intended for Amanda and John.
as for the spiral scene where the character gets skinned, the reason there was only a few clips of the flashback is because darren bousman the director had issues with the MPA due to how graphic the scene was, so it had to be massively cut down (which is crazy considering there are movies with far worse gore)
I agree with your top 2! I was shocked at the end of the first movie! The ending of Saw 2 freakin shocked the hell out of me!
I think it'd be cool if the next Saw movie was about Gordon and Logan working together and make them kinda more complicated.
I remember the House of Jigsaw days when the constant running theory was Gordon coming back. It surprised nobody, but it was fun and it finally ended the speculation.
Spiral had the most predictable ending. I figured out that shenk was the copycat in the first 11 minutes...he tells zeke (your father is the reason I'm here. The reason for all of this) so stupid of the writer and director. Those words should have never come out of shenks mouth
I can’t remember when I first watched saw 7 but I think i was so far behind watching it was spoiled he was an apprentice. And Spiral. I remember thinking i was so smart because i guessed who the killer was😭😂