I found out these boots were actually a custom fit boot. The seller lied saying they were “off the shelf 11E”. Inside the boots on the vamps it says “Fit 11E” on one boot and “12 1/2E” crossed out on the other. Both shafts show 11E stamp.
It always surprises me when people say wearing boots in the summer is difficult. I live in Mesa Arizona and wear boots year round and work outside. Is it hot? You bet. I’m a boot guy at work or not.
I was surprised that I spilled a few drips of water on them yesterday and it dried without a mark. Unsure why some drips of water stain, while others don’t. What do you condition them with? Usual stuff like VSC or Bick4?
@@EDHBlvd I had them for 3 months, but have not conditioned them yet. Whenever I decide to I’m thinking of something that won’t darken the leather much.
I've always worn wide footwear even when I was a kid when I reached out to frank for sizing he recommended a 10 d I've never owned a boot in a size ten or a d width but he did recommend getting the #4 toe I haven't gotten the boots yet so we will see
That 1977 #4 makes a 55 #3 look like roach stompers. Between the big arch (which makes effective foot kength shorter) and the wide nose (which let's you use area much deeper in the nose) you gain significant real-estate.
@@gk5891not sure what you are getting at. Maybe you are saying you prefer the 1977 Last? If so, I agree. I love my Nicks 11067 Last Prospectors. Sprung toe life!
@EDHBlvd I was making the point that because of being able to use area farther forward in the toe box you can often use a smaller size with a #4. My 9.5EE HNW #3 has an 11.5" foot bed. A size 9.5 foot is only 10.5" long. That means even with 0.5" of reserve space you have 1.5 sizes (0.5") of space to play with.
Those Franks look incredible. I'd like to get those or something similar eventually, for when I'm not wearing dress shoes or working in work boots. Maybe Nick's Urban Logger or White's Bounty Hunter.
Ya they are gorgeous. I got my Nicks insoles (the ones on Amazon appear to be their Max Support Work leather). They make the fit great. Better than the foam I used as they offer more support and have a flatter heel. The Superfeet insoles had a cup shape in heel, which didn’t allow my heel to sit properly. Now they fit very nice with a medium sock. I’m almost certain they are keepers now. Also love how I can wear them all day without my toes getting fatigue from being cramped like my 11D Whites. I need to call Franks and inquire about this and how their 55 compares to Whites 55.
@@EDHBlvdI have a dumb question. How do you size insoles? If you’re boot is size 11 E and it’s too big do you get a size 11 insole or would that be too big to fit length wise?
@@186bingo nicks insoles come in ranges, so I just bought the “10-11.5” size. I would buy the insole based off the shoe size. The length was never “too big”, just the width. They don’t make different width insoles.
@@EDHBlvd How do the Frank's 55 11E compared to the Nick's Prospector in 11E and the Nick's Thurman NW Truman in 11D (did I get that right?) There was a pair of Frank's in 10.5D in olive green on the seconds section of their site I missed out on, but I'm wondering if I should get a 10.5D or get a 10.5E and get an insert for the heel. I was looking at those navy horsehide boots from White's through Baker's for a year but gave up on those. The Nick's Munson seems interesting but I'm put off by wait times and limited options for those models.
So I picked up Nicks Robert boots in 10.5E (my Brannock is 11E). They fit nice, but are a little snug - same thing, luckily they are Brown CXL so it flexes nicely. I just ordered a pair of Franks 10.5EE, and after watching your video I wonder if I should change it to 10.5E. Maybe it would work just fine.
I don’t know what to think anymore. I contacted Bakers asking if I ordered a Franks Wilshire from them in the 11077 Last, would it fit the same as my Nicks 11067 Last boot. They said fit should be identical between Franks and Nicks.
@@EDHBlvd Seems like a real roll of the dice anymore! My goal is to use it as a hiking/hunting boot, so maybe keeping it with a little bit of extra room makes sense to use with thicker hiking socks. LOL we'll see!
Geez this is way more difficult to find answers on than I thought. Appreciate the video. My Nick's 55 seem shorter almost than my White's. Been looking for some Frank's to broaden my horizons.
I have Frank's Welshire in brown domaine full roughout, and they have the same creasing spot near the eyelets. As for the width difference, it could be the Front Range is in #3 toe and the Nick's have #4 toe. I wear 8.5D for #3 toe and 8 for #4 toe.
Not sure what you mean by toe. The Front Range is on the 55 Last (they say #3 toe, but there is no options on toe, it’s really that the 55 Last = #3 toe). Nicks also sells the 55 Last in many boots. The #4 toe is just the 11067 Last. Franks sells it as the “1977 Last”. I feel these companies confuse people mentioning toes, when really the only option is the Last. Each last has a different toe shape.
So I have 2 pairs of Nicks. One is on the 55 and the other is on the HNW and both the same size. Both fit me great. I have a pair of White's also and i was told to get the same size as my Nicks 11.5E. Now those seem tighter then my Nicks and I probably should have went to a EE on them.
I've had the same experience with Nick's HNW as you mentioned: sloppy in the heel. I've been stubborn about trying the 55, because I was determined to avoid the high heels, similar to you. So after going through several variations of my size in the HNW, I'm about ready to give up on that last. When I finally got one with a snug heel, my instep and toes suffered. I just can't get one that feels right on my whole foot. And I kept listening to the Nicks guidance, as you mentioned, saying that all their lasts should fit the same, and my size should be the same in all of them. So I had no reason to believe that trying the 55 would feel any better. I was ready to throw in the towel on my whole PNW quest for the right fit. Sorry to say, but I think Nicks has gone too far in their mission to streamline and simplify the fitting process. They are glossing over important details that could help someone like me find the right size. Finally, on a whim, I saw a White's Cutter in my size at a nice discount from Baker's "Final Few." I thought it would be a good opportunity to try the 55 on a lower heel, without much risk. What a revelation! The Nicks HNW in the same size and width has my heel swimming and floating around all day. In the White's 55, I'm locked in, but without any strange pressure on the back of my heel and no slipping. I don't know how it's possible, because I've struggled so much in my quest for a fit like this in the HNW. I can do calf raises in these Cutters, and my heel doesn't move. I love it. And my toes have plenty of room on the sides of the vamp. Other than the unpleasant side effect of the LTT of having the top of the vamp press down on the top of my big toe when I take a step, it's perfect. I hope that works itself out with more break-in. So, where I'm at now, I'm beginning to think White's is the better choice for me. I get the impression that their boots are a better match for my feet. I've heard others say that the White's 55 has a tighter fit for them than other PNW makers. If that's true, I may want to stick with White's now, because I'm finding the fit just right.
@@igucl1027 yep, their sizing guidance is often wrong and the HNW is just a terrible Last. Nicks other issue is their Classic heel is too tall. Whites has the perfect heel height using 4 leather stacks. With Nicks you either have too tall (5/6 stacks) or slightly too short (3 stacks). You might try a Nicks 55 on a Moderate heel. Will feel similar to the Cutter. However if you enjoy the Whites then why bother. My experience was the opposite. Where each Whites purchase had some QC issue or another. That is why I moved away from Whites.
My Nick's are a few years old. Tough break in and they also slip at the heel. I need to wear them more. Just got a pair of JK OTs in work leather, not bison. Break in was a couple days, 2-3 hours a day. Been wearing them all day for a few days. Much lighter boot. I can actually bend my foot. They are almost too soft for work boots. Great hunting boots. The JKs slip at the heel, too. I do not have a narrow foot. Nick's are 8.5D, JKs are 7.5EE. The JKs actually look larger.
@@Old_Sailor85 Which last did you get in the Nicks? Does the heel slippage bother you, or you don’t mind? I mean, a little slipping is pretty normal, they say, but anything more than a minimal amount really bothers me.
@@igucl1027 HNW last, they are 6" Travelers in Bison, They were actually Carl Murowski collabs if you're familiar with his channel. The Nick's are very stiff in the sole. Great for working on ladders or rebar. Tough for hiking or mechanic work. So stiff you have to drag your toes on the ground if you squat. They are still not what I would consider well broken in, but they are wearable. The JK OTs are at the opposite end. Very flexible, easy break in. Heel slip is manageable in both, but I also wear cowboy boots, so they all slip.
Hi, may I ask you about your experience regarding 55 last. They say that there is a connection between boot length and width. My rangers are 10.5D They should be width E but it wasn’t available and after time they stretched enough. The extra space at the big toe is half inch.Nicks are telling my that i need width EE. i think that 10.5EE might be a bit too long with 55 last and I should go to 10EE/my foot length is 11”/.
My only experience with the 55 is 3 pairs of Whites, all 11D. I sold all of them over time as they were too tight for my 11.5D brannock foot. I have a pair of 55 Franks in 11E and they are huge. I use a leather insole and thick sock and still they are generous. They have noticeably more volume than my Nicks 67’s in 11EE. I don’t know if this pair is messed up or Franks 55 runs huge.
The instep looks like it’s “bumped” up, like a hump. It’s what my instep on my foot is like from wearing hockey skates all my life. Just wondering if that high instep is what is making them be too roomy.
No it’s more the toe box area. The instep is actually fine. The facings at top don’t even close up as much as I like. More than 2 finger gap at top of boot.
Will do. My nicks leather insoles arrive Thursday. I’ll give them a wear around house a few days with those and decide if they are keepers or pass them on.
@@EDHBlvd You are a half size larger than I am in boots. Or I'd be pestering you about buying some of your stock lol. Quick question, lug sole or 430 mini lug on the Falcons I'm getting in tanned was flesh? What's your opinion on the matter?
I have a V-Bar on my Roberts and a Mini Lug on my 350 Cruisers and Red Wings. I do like the 430 better than the V-Bar. But I'm really considering a lug sole. Stumped though (boot life problems smh)
@@christopherdavisson617 I like the 430 but I’ve noticed it’s very hard. I’m comparison the V100 and Vbar are both much softer. It’s quite noticeable walking. If you want more impact protection and comfort, go with the Vbar or V100. If you love the aesthetics and want a long lasting sole, maybe do the 430.
@@american1911 ya Franks knows how to make a properly shaped heel counter. Nicks has gone to using really short/low heel counters on their boots. When asked about it they act like they have no idea what you are talking about. It’s very strange of them.
@@thomasdraper8935 I actually don’t like thicker boot socks much. They make my feet sweat. I even bought some Darn Tough’s in Light weight and Medium weight and they make my feet sweat too, despite all the claims about merino wool. My preferred socks are thinner stuff I just buy from Costco. I do have some Dickies work socks I got years back at Target that I wear with some of my more generous fitting boots. I also have a pair of BuilderPro’s I ordered an extra wide width to wear with some very thick winter socks. However I recently threw in a leather insole into that pair so I can wear them with my thinner socks. I prefer to have my feet be able to breathe.
Beautiful boots man! And im the person who bought the huckberrys for you they are still holding up great! If youve given up on your c350 whites boots let me know, i can take them off your hands for you 😂. The franks are awsome though! Hope thos insoles in them work out for you!
Yo!! Glad they are working out for you. I’ll definitely hit you up if I decide to sell. For now they are boxed up in my closet. Been barely able to wear boots this summer with the high temps, but we have been down in the lower 90’s recently so I’m able to wear jeans and boots. Excited to hopefully get my W&C Milled Buck Brown MTO’s next week. They just shipped them.
@EDHBlvd very nice! I had a pair of nicks cap toe in the buck brown the leather was amazing (though it was super stiff) but unfortunately it was on the HNW last and similar to you that last does not work with my foot. Think I'm going to place an order for the thurman last soon, just trying to decide what leather to go with.
They don't fit too big if you aren't slipping heavily in the heel. Perhaps you aren't used to a near exact fit. I have E width in HNW and I sold my EE width in Nicks, I think It's an odd feeling to have a boot slip on so easy, but once laced if it works, it works. I think the creases are just the natural breaks of the leather hide. When they last the boot they are doing a lot of pulling and stretching, the creases are probably just from the way the grains of the flesh on the hide bent and broke off. It should be a great boot and you got a great price, knock them around.
Ya I’ve not given up on them yet. I’ll wear them whenever it cools off a little. We are in another heat wave. 107F today, 109F tomorrow, not exactly boot weather.
So I got a ton of water spots on the heel counters walking in rain last week. I put Bick4 on the heel counters and it removed the water stains. Super amazed it actually worked.
These boots were custom fitted to the buyer and he has exactly the same rolls. Seems to be a W&C thing: www.ebay.com/itm/225552561549?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=dvdXSe61SN6&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=aHohYh1cTBK&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
I think that roll on the side is a telltale sign that your foot isn't filling out the boot properly, but also that stiff leather tends to set itself to the first roll it forms. If you want to loosen that roll so it doesn't bite, massage the leather with your fingers, or wait for it to break in on its own.
I disagree. I’m seeing other W&C boots on foot and they have similar roll. I think it’s the leather. Here is the most recent example where I see same roll: th-cam.com/video/K4ApS8HBAo8/w-d-xo.html
@@EDHBlvd I think the rolls on Keith's boots are different, and they are more what I'd expect given the temper of the leather. The real test would be whether or not the leather in the waist (in-between the ball and instep) and instep are hugging your foot snuggly. If they are, then the roll is what it is, but if there's slack there, then the boot isn't filled out properly, and that's the cause of that large roll; instead of smaller rolls like Keith's. It's possible his boots are also a little too big in the waist. The insole of a boot should ideally be the same size as your footprint, meaning a pedigraph or similar method for finding exactly where the pads of your feet meet the ground. This means that your foot will press out and over the insole a little bit, out into the upper. Maybe you've seen a pair of well broken in boots, where you can see the upper has taken the shape of the foot and bulges out over the inseaming line (stitchdown line, welt line, etc.). As far as girth measurements go: a boot should fit snug at the ball, no squeezing, with room for the toes to move; the waist can stand to be pretty tight (squeeze your own foot behind the ball, doesn't hurt); and snug at the instep, can't be tight or it'll hurt. The boot should fit nice and snug from ball to heel, as if you were poured into them. If there's excessive slack anywhere, big rolls like that tend to form. It's very uncommon to get a proper fit without a custom last. Nick's used to modify lasts to fit customers, but I don't think they do that anymore, which is a shame.
@@noone3734 same rolls as mine, and he was custom fitted by Franks: www.ebay.com/itm/225552561549?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=dvdXSe61SN6&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=aHohYh1cTBK&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
@@EDHBlvd That's interesting. I can't say a custom fit from Frank's results in a perfectly snug fitting boot, because I don't know if they go that far, but it looks like those rolls form there because of how the quarters end just about where the foot bends at the ball. But anyways, I'm glad to hear you got some leather insoles and you're happy with the fit now. I kind of like the idea of having a boot with a replaceable insole, instead of just the structural insole with a sock liner.
I'm not quite an addict yet, but still trying to figure out which ones should be first or only company because it's a bit of dough to drop for custom without knowing how they'll fit.
Yeah, that creasing looks like the boots are too big. Like when I get those cheap ones that are a bit too long and they want to bubble up by the lacing vamp bit instead of across the top of the toe, but I haven't seen it quite down the side like that before so I don't know if that is unique to the leather so much as just the shape of your foot.
Too tight seems slightly less common, but almost just as bad because, like you said, you wait for them to stretch and they never do but then the other ones only seem to get bigger and bigger. And people say I'm weird or I'm whining, but this is almost every boot once I think the more expensive ones will fit better and the process will be easier. Wrong!
So far the Truman and the Grant Stone seem the closest and the Thorogood are probably OK, but I don't know if Truman counts as PNW because they are definitely not Super Mega Ultra triple stitch, etc.
revisiting this video because I agree with what you said at 18:05 about nicks lasts. I am a 10.5D brannock with my heel to ball measurements at an 11D. For my nicks Americana's I purchased a size 11D a half size up from brannock and true to size heel to ball. I own a pair of nick's packers in size 10.5D true to size and a pair of Roberts 10D half size down from brannock all though for this Robert purchased it really needed to be 10.5D and not 10D. Nicks lasts sizing are all different and when they say all the lasts fit the same Id say that's false.
@@MarcP5267 way too much internet focus on HtB measure. PNW brands don’t even consider it when sizing someone. They instead measure length, and circumference at ball, instep, and heel.
I have Frank's in the 55 last and have the same issue with them. The fit is not the same of my other PNW brand 55 last boots in the same size. I also get that large crease and folding just like your and I'm not sure why? Not a fan of it. The Frank's just don't fit like my other 55 last boots?
How do the Frank’s boots fit different for you? I have 4 pairs of White’s on the 55 last and one pair of Nicks’s Robert’s. I find the White’s in 10D fit my foot perfectly, but that the arch in the Nick’s Robert’s doesn’t fill my arch as much and the arch is a hair farther back toward the heel.
Iv wondered about this as well. Started off with a Nicks 55 last which I went half size down from brannock. Support is towards the back of my arch which I like. Ordered the same size with franks and the arch feels more in the middle of my foot/ arch. I see on their website they recommend full size down from the brannock. Do they just build their arches differently? And this changes the whole boot?
You have Franks and Whites, both same size and same Last? Do they fit identical? What’s even more odd is the heel fit on this 11E is great. Feels just about as snug as the heel on my 11D boots.
@@qltyboots seller said they are off the shelf size. Nothing on boot collar suggests otherwise. I’d think they would mark them if they were a customized Last.
Probably a little big. Shame because they are awesome boots. I have some franks front ranges and they are my best fitting boots. I love the 55 last, but my wife does give me shit about the high heel 😂
@@catfashbellywell my Franks in 11E feel like 3 widths wider than the three pairs of Whites I owned in 11D. I’ve sold all the whites. The franks work with Nicks leather insole and thick boot socks. I’ve kept them.
Frank’s Boots has the MOST custom options than any other PNW boot Company, with that been said “Frank’s usually come” it’s an unfair assumption. Thanks for sharing !!
Hey man, I just came across your channel, you mention selling boots, I have a pair of franks that are lightly worn and just way too big for me, could you point me to a place that I could sell them? I'm having trouble on certain platforms because they are wildland fire boots and a little niche, however they would be perfect for trade work. They are 11.5 D Ground Pounder all black roughout, wonderful boots, just too damn big.
Like most of us boot nerds, I've owned multiple pair from all the pnw makers. They all make a great boot, but in my experience Franks, is just a little better than the rest
@@ryanmurphy7422 unfortunately my experience with Franks is only a used pair off eBay and seller lied and claimed they were off the shelf 11E only to realize months later they are a custom fitting. This explained why the toe box is so huge. I’m not a fan of franks super high heels. They seem higher than Nicks Classic. However my main reason for not buying them is their god awful website and return policies. Site claims 15% restock charge. Nicks doesn’t charge you a dime.
Frank worked at Nicks for 20 years as there general manager and know how to build PNW his boots are build the same as Nicks and the original owner of of Nicks cut his teeth at Whites boots little history
I bought my first pair of Nick’s Alaska Tundra 64 for wildland fire in 1997 when Frank was still there. Now that he’s moved in to Frank’s I’m still following him whatever he calls his boots. Frank now markets the Nick’s Alaska Tundra as the Frank’s Ground Pounder. I’m sold on my mid-1990 Nick’s boots now that he’s now Frank’s Boots!
If you call Franks, you will find out that that boot comes standard 8-inch but can be ordered in a six-inch. You would clearly wear a Franks boot in an 11-D. Frank worked for Nicks before he started his own company and is very knowledgeable. You clearly bought a boot that was specially ordered. The width has nothing to do with the 55last. The last remains the same even if you change the width. I would sell them and order the size that fits. You are clearly like me. I have made the same mistakes. I ordered boots that were cheaper on eBay feeling guilty about the cost. In the long run, I would have saved a lot of money just driving from Louisiana to Franks and trying on the boots. I would have been a one-boot-man, and saved hundreds. It always bugged me that they slightly didn't fit just right---even after stretching them, etc. I am a person that cannot be satisfied unless something does what it is supposed to do and the overall fit quality is a ***good-fit.😎😎
Dude, I'll try to reassure you, the boots don't look like women's boots. In fact, heeled shoes were originally worn by men. then the women took away the shoes with heels from the men. therefore, these women's shoes with heels look like men's shoes... I hope you can now accept this more easily...
I found out these boots were actually a custom fit boot. The seller lied saying they were “off the shelf 11E”. Inside the boots on the vamps it says “Fit 11E” on one boot and “12 1/2E” crossed out on the other. Both shafts show 11E stamp.
Franks can build you pretty much any boot you want if you can dream it frank can build it
It always surprises me when people say wearing boots in the summer is difficult. I live in Mesa Arizona and wear boots year round and work outside. Is it hot? You bet. I’m a boot guy at work or not.
I live in Florida and wear boots year round. Don’t even got to think about it.
I wish that were the case all over. Here when its -20/-40 for 4/5 months we relish the chance to let the feet breathe.
I march through the tropics, heat is no issue.
Its walking through snow that causes a problem, QUICK
Whites smokejumpers
I have the W&C boot in the same leather. I usually take a damp cloth and wipe the whole boot to even out the color to get rid of the water spots.
I was surprised that I spilled a few drips of water on them yesterday and it dried without a mark. Unsure why some drips of water stain, while others don’t.
What do you condition them with? Usual stuff like VSC or Bick4?
@@EDHBlvd I had them for 3 months, but have not conditioned them yet. Whenever I decide to I’m thinking of something that won’t darken the leather much.
I've always worn wide footwear even when I was a kid when I reached out to frank for sizing he recommended a 10 d I've never owned a boot in a size ten or a d width but he did recommend getting the #4 toe I haven't gotten the boots yet so we will see
That 1977 #4 makes a 55 #3 look like roach stompers. Between the big arch (which makes effective foot kength shorter) and the wide nose (which let's you use area much deeper in the nose) you gain significant real-estate.
@@gk5891not sure what you are getting at. Maybe you are saying you prefer the 1977 Last? If so, I agree. I love my Nicks 11067 Last Prospectors. Sprung toe life!
@EDHBlvd I was making the point that because of being able to use area farther forward in the toe box you can often use a smaller size with a #4.
My 9.5EE HNW #3 has an 11.5" foot bed. A size 9.5 foot is only 10.5" long. That means even with 0.5" of reserve space you have 1.5 sizes (0.5") of space to play with.
Those Franks look incredible. I'd like to get those or something similar eventually, for when I'm not wearing dress shoes or working in work boots. Maybe Nick's Urban Logger or White's Bounty Hunter.
Ya they are gorgeous. I got my Nicks insoles (the ones on Amazon appear to be their Max Support Work leather). They make the fit great. Better than the foam I used as they offer more support and have a flatter heel. The Superfeet insoles had a cup shape in heel, which didn’t allow my heel to sit properly. Now they fit very nice with a medium sock. I’m almost certain they are keepers now. Also love how I can wear them all day without my toes getting fatigue from being cramped like my 11D Whites. I need to call Franks and inquire about this and how their 55 compares to Whites 55.
@@EDHBlvd Oh great...the balls of my feet are really wide and I have high insteps, so maybe these are a good bet....
@@EDHBlvdI have a dumb question. How do you size insoles? If you’re boot is size 11 E and it’s too big do you get a size 11 insole or would that be too big to fit length wise?
@@186bingo nicks insoles come in ranges, so I just bought the “10-11.5” size. I would buy the insole based off the shoe size. The length was never “too big”, just the width. They don’t make different width insoles.
@@EDHBlvd How do the Frank's 55 11E compared to the Nick's Prospector in 11E and the Nick's Thurman NW Truman in 11D (did I get that right?)
There was a pair of Frank's in 10.5D in olive green on the seconds section of their site I missed out on, but I'm wondering if I should get a 10.5D or get a 10.5E and get an insert for the heel.
I was looking at those navy horsehide boots from White's through Baker's for a year but gave up on those. The Nick's Munson seems interesting but I'm put off by wait times and limited options for those models.
So I picked up Nicks Robert boots in 10.5E (my Brannock is 11E). They fit nice, but are a little snug - same thing, luckily they are Brown CXL so it flexes nicely. I just ordered a pair of Franks 10.5EE, and after watching your video I wonder if I should change it to 10.5E. Maybe it would work just fine.
I don’t know what to think anymore. I contacted Bakers asking if I ordered a Franks Wilshire from them in the 11077 Last, would it fit the same as my Nicks 11067 Last boot. They said fit should be identical between Franks and Nicks.
@@EDHBlvd Seems like a real roll of the dice anymore! My goal is to use it as a hiking/hunting boot, so maybe keeping it with a little bit of extra room makes sense to use with thicker hiking socks. LOL we'll see!
Geez this is way more difficult to find answers on than I thought. Appreciate the video. My Nick's 55 seem shorter almost than my White's. Been looking for some Frank's to broaden my horizons.
I have Frank's Welshire in brown domaine full roughout, and they have the same creasing spot near the eyelets. As for the width difference, it could be the Front Range is in #3 toe and the Nick's have #4 toe. I wear 8.5D for #3 toe and 8 for #4 toe.
Not sure what you mean by toe. The Front Range is on the 55 Last (they say #3 toe, but there is no options on toe, it’s really that the 55 Last = #3 toe). Nicks also sells the 55 Last in many boots. The #4 toe is just the 11067 Last. Franks sells it as the “1977 Last”. I feel these companies confuse people mentioning toes, when really the only option is the Last. Each last has a different toe shape.
Yup, my Frank's do the same. Not sure why? They don't fit like the other 55 last PNW brand boots I have in the same size. I don't like that creasing.
So I have 2 pairs of Nicks. One is on the 55 and the other is on the HNW and both the same size. Both fit me great. I have a pair of White's also and i was told to get the same size as my Nicks 11.5E. Now those seem tighter then my Nicks and I probably should have went to a EE on them.
Very interesting. More evidence they aren’t using identical Lasts or they are doing something different when lasting.
That is a TUDOR BlackBay 58? What a great watch for a boot addict like us... 👏👏
BB58 Bronze. I posted a video about it last year if you are interested. It’s my favorite watch.
I've been eyeing these up for a while man! nice boots.
also, we are Boot heads...no cure. every new boot will be perfect boot
🙌🙏
I've had the same experience with Nick's HNW as you mentioned: sloppy in the heel. I've been stubborn about trying the 55, because I was determined to avoid the high heels, similar to you. So after going through several variations of my size in the HNW, I'm about ready to give up on that last. When I finally got one with a snug heel, my instep and toes suffered. I just can't get one that feels right on my whole foot.
And I kept listening to the Nicks guidance, as you mentioned, saying that all their lasts should fit the same, and my size should be the same in all of them. So I had no reason to believe that trying the 55 would feel any better. I was ready to throw in the towel on my whole PNW quest for the right fit. Sorry to say, but I think Nicks has gone too far in their mission to streamline and simplify the fitting process. They are glossing over important details that could help someone like me find the right size.
Finally, on a whim, I saw a White's Cutter in my size at a nice discount from Baker's "Final Few." I thought it would be a good opportunity to try the 55 on a lower heel, without much risk. What a revelation! The Nicks HNW in the same size and width has my heel swimming and floating around all day. In the White's 55, I'm locked in, but without any strange pressure on the back of my heel and no slipping. I don't know how it's possible, because I've struggled so much in my quest for a fit like this in the HNW. I can do calf raises in these Cutters, and my heel doesn't move. I love it. And my toes have plenty of room on the sides of the vamp. Other than the unpleasant side effect of the LTT of having the top of the vamp press down on the top of my big toe when I take a step, it's perfect. I hope that works itself out with more break-in.
So, where I'm at now, I'm beginning to think White's is the better choice for me. I get the impression that their boots are a better match for my feet. I've heard others say that the White's 55 has a tighter fit for them than other PNW makers. If that's true, I may want to stick with White's now, because I'm finding the fit just right.
@@igucl1027 yep, their sizing guidance is often wrong and the HNW is just a terrible Last. Nicks other issue is their Classic heel is too tall. Whites has the perfect heel height using 4 leather stacks. With Nicks you either have too tall (5/6 stacks) or slightly too short (3 stacks).
You might try a Nicks 55 on a Moderate heel. Will feel similar to the Cutter. However if you enjoy the Whites then why bother. My experience was the opposite. Where each Whites purchase had some QC issue or another. That is why I moved away from Whites.
My Nick's are a few years old. Tough break in and they also slip at the heel. I need to wear them more.
Just got a pair of JK OTs in work leather, not bison. Break in was a couple days, 2-3 hours a day. Been wearing them all day for a few days. Much lighter boot. I can actually bend my foot. They are almost too soft for work boots. Great hunting boots.
The JKs slip at the heel, too. I do not have a narrow foot.
Nick's are 8.5D, JKs are 7.5EE. The JKs actually look larger.
@@Old_Sailor85 Which last did you get in the Nicks? Does the heel slippage bother you, or you don’t mind? I mean, a little slipping is pretty normal, they say, but anything more than a minimal amount really bothers me.
@@igucl1027 HNW last, they are 6" Travelers in Bison, They were actually Carl Murowski collabs if you're familiar with his channel.
The Nick's are very stiff in the sole. Great for working on ladders or rebar. Tough for hiking or mechanic work. So stiff you have to drag your toes on the ground if you squat. They are still not what I would consider well broken in, but they are wearable.
The JK OTs are at the opposite end. Very flexible, easy break in.
Heel slip is manageable in both, but I also wear cowboy boots, so they all slip.
Hi,
may I ask you about your experience regarding 55 last.
They say that there is a connection between boot length and width.
My rangers are 10.5D
They should be width E but it wasn’t available and after time they stretched enough.
The extra space at the big toe is half inch.Nicks are telling my that i need width EE.
i think that 10.5EE might be a bit too long with 55 last and I should go to 10EE/my foot length is 11”/.
My only experience with the 55 is 3 pairs of Whites, all 11D. I sold all of them over time as they were too tight for my 11.5D brannock foot. I have a pair of 55 Franks in 11E and they are huge. I use a leather insole and thick sock and still they are generous. They have noticeably more volume than my Nicks 67’s in 11EE. I don’t know if this pair is messed up or Franks 55 runs huge.
The instep looks like it’s “bumped” up, like a hump. It’s what my instep on my foot is like from wearing hockey skates all my life. Just wondering if that high instep is what is making them be too roomy.
No it’s more the toe box area. The instep is actually fine. The facings at top don’t even close up as much as I like. More than 2 finger gap at top of boot.
Man that's a nice looking boot. Let me know how Frank's compares to Nicks/Whites
Will do. My nicks leather insoles arrive Thursday. I’ll give them a wear around house a few days with those and decide if they are keepers or pass them on.
@@EDHBlvd You are a half size larger than I am in boots. Or I'd be pestering you about buying some of your stock lol. Quick question, lug sole or 430 mini lug on the Falcons I'm getting in tanned was flesh? What's your opinion on the matter?
I have a V-Bar on my Roberts and a Mini Lug on my 350 Cruisers and Red Wings. I do like the 430 better than the V-Bar. But I'm really considering a lug sole. Stumped though (boot life problems smh)
@@christopherdavisson617 I like the 430 but I’ve noticed it’s very hard. I’m comparison the V100 and Vbar are both much softer. It’s quite noticeable walking. If you want more impact protection and comfort, go with the Vbar or V100. If you love the aesthetics and want a long lasting sole, maybe do the 430.
@@EDHBlvdI’ve found the same with the sole options. The 430 is noticeably harder than V-Bar or V-100.
It looks like your Frank’s boot has a rounder more ergonomically shaped heel counter than the other PNW brands?
@@american1911 ya Franks knows how to make a properly shaped heel counter. Nicks has gone to using really short/low heel counters on their boots. When asked about it they act like they have no idea what you are talking about. It’s very strange of them.
What brand of boot socks do you wear out of curiosity?
@@thomasdraper8935 I actually don’t like thicker boot socks much. They make my feet sweat. I even bought some Darn Tough’s in Light weight and Medium weight and they make my feet sweat too, despite all the claims about merino wool.
My preferred socks are thinner stuff I just buy from Costco. I do have some Dickies work socks I got years back at Target that I wear with some of my more generous fitting boots. I also have a pair of BuilderPro’s I ordered an extra wide width to wear with some very thick winter socks. However I recently threw in a leather insole into that pair so I can wear them with my thinner socks. I prefer to have my feet be able to breathe.
Beautiful boots man! And im the person who bought the huckberrys for you they are still holding up great! If youve given up on your c350 whites boots let me know, i can take them off your hands for you 😂. The franks are awsome though! Hope thos insoles in them work out for you!
Yo!! Glad they are working out for you. I’ll definitely hit you up if I decide to sell. For now they are boxed up in my closet. Been barely able to wear boots this summer with the high temps, but we have been down in the lower 90’s recently so I’m able to wear jeans and boots. Excited to hopefully get my W&C Milled Buck Brown MTO’s next week. They just shipped them.
@EDHBlvd very nice! I had a pair of nicks cap toe in the buck brown the leather was amazing (though it was super stiff) but unfortunately it was on the HNW last and similar to you that last does not work with my foot. Think I'm going to place an order for the thurman last soon, just trying to decide what leather to go with.
They don't fit too big if you aren't slipping heavily in the heel. Perhaps you aren't used to a near exact fit. I have E width in HNW and I sold my EE width in Nicks, I think It's an odd feeling to have a boot slip on so easy, but once laced if it works, it works. I think the creases are just the natural breaks of the leather hide.
When they last the boot they are doing a lot of pulling and stretching, the creases are probably just from the way the grains of the flesh on the hide bent and broke off. It should be a great boot and you got a great price, knock them around.
Ya I’ve not given up on them yet. I’ll wear them whenever it cools off a little. We are in another heat wave. 107F today, 109F tomorrow, not exactly boot weather.
@@EDHBlvd actually that kind heat is a perfect time to grease them up and wear them in.
That franks is a beaut. I think if you did work in it the patina would look pretty mean. I think some beeswax wil help with water stains.
So I got a ton of water spots on the heel counters walking in rain last week. I put Bick4 on the heel counters and it removed the water stains. Super amazed it actually worked.
These boots were custom fitted to the buyer and he has exactly the same rolls. Seems to be a W&C thing:
www.ebay.com/itm/225552561549?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=dvdXSe61SN6&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=aHohYh1cTBK&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
My Frank's are not W&C and do the same thing with the creasing.
I think that roll on the side is a telltale sign that your foot isn't filling out the boot properly, but also that stiff leather tends to set itself to the first roll it forms. If you want to loosen that roll so it doesn't bite, massage the leather with your fingers, or wait for it to break in on its own.
I disagree. I’m seeing other W&C boots on foot and they have similar roll. I think it’s the leather. Here is the most recent example where I see same roll:
th-cam.com/video/K4ApS8HBAo8/w-d-xo.html
@@EDHBlvd I think the rolls on Keith's boots are different, and they are more what I'd expect given the temper of the leather. The real test would be whether or not the leather in the waist (in-between the ball and instep) and instep are hugging your foot snuggly. If they are, then the roll is what it is, but if there's slack there, then the boot isn't filled out properly, and that's the cause of that large roll; instead of smaller rolls like Keith's. It's possible his boots are also a little too big in the waist.
The insole of a boot should ideally be the same size as your footprint, meaning a pedigraph or similar method for finding exactly where the pads of your feet meet the ground. This means that your foot will press out and over the insole a little bit, out into the upper. Maybe you've seen a pair of well broken in boots, where you can see the upper has taken the shape of the foot and bulges out over the inseaming line (stitchdown line, welt line, etc.). As far as girth measurements go: a boot should fit snug at the ball, no squeezing, with room for the toes to move; the waist can stand to be pretty tight (squeeze your own foot behind the ball, doesn't hurt); and snug at the instep, can't be tight or it'll hurt. The boot should fit nice and snug from ball to heel, as if you were poured into them. If there's excessive slack anywhere, big rolls like that tend to form. It's very uncommon to get a proper fit without a custom last. Nick's used to modify lasts to fit customers, but I don't think they do that anymore, which is a shame.
@@noone3734 the Franks feel great with Nicks insoles. They are keepers now. It’s great not having toe annoyance at end of a day like with 11D boots.
@@noone3734 same rolls as mine, and he was custom fitted by Franks:
www.ebay.com/itm/225552561549?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=dvdXSe61SN6&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=aHohYh1cTBK&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
@@EDHBlvd That's interesting. I can't say a custom fit from Frank's results in a perfectly snug fitting boot, because I don't know if they go that far, but it looks like those rolls form there because of how the quarters end just about where the foot bends at the ball. But anyways, I'm glad to hear you got some leather insoles and you're happy with the fit now. I kind of like the idea of having a boot with a replaceable insole, instead of just the structural insole with a sock liner.
I'm not quite an addict yet, but still trying to figure out which ones should be first or only company because it's a bit of dough to drop for custom without knowing how they'll fit.
Yeah, that creasing looks like the boots are too big. Like when I get those cheap ones that are a bit too long and they want to bubble up by the lacing vamp bit instead of across the top of the toe, but I haven't seen it quite down the side like that before so I don't know if that is unique to the leather so much as just the shape of your foot.
I hate sloppy shoes. Seems to be the norm.
Too tight seems slightly less common, but almost just as bad because, like you said, you wait for them to stretch and they never do but then the other ones only seem to get bigger and bigger. And people say I'm weird or I'm whining, but this is almost every boot once I think the more expensive ones will fit better and the process will be easier. Wrong!
So far the Truman and the Grant Stone seem the closest and the Thorogood are probably OK, but I don't know if Truman counts as PNW because they are definitely not Super Mega Ultra triple stitch, etc.
Leather still pretty thick, tho.
revisiting this video because I agree with what you said at 18:05 about nicks lasts. I am a 10.5D brannock with my heel to ball measurements at an 11D. For my nicks Americana's I purchased a size 11D a half size up from brannock and true to size heel to ball. I own a pair of nick's packers in size 10.5D true to size and a pair of Roberts 10D half size down from brannock all though for this Robert purchased it really needed to be 10.5D and not 10D. Nicks lasts sizing are all different and when they say all the lasts fit the same Id say that's false.
Ya it’s very strange that they suggest same size across very different shaped Lasts. Maybe they want the boots to fit in varying levels of too large.
Your true size is ball to heel.
@@MarcP5267 way too much internet focus on HtB measure. PNW brands don’t even consider it when sizing someone. They instead measure length, and circumference at ball, instep, and heel.
I have Frank's in the 55 last and have the same issue with them. The fit is not the same of my other PNW brand 55 last boots in the same size. I also get that large crease and folding just like your and I'm not sure why? Not a fan of it. The Frank's just don't fit like my other 55 last boots?
I wonder if others have experienced the same as us.
How do the Frank’s boots fit different for you? I have 4 pairs of White’s on the 55 last and one pair of Nicks’s Robert’s. I find the White’s in 10D fit my foot perfectly, but that the arch in the Nick’s Robert’s doesn’t fill my arch as much and the arch is a hair farther back toward the heel.
Iv wondered about this as well. Started off with a Nicks 55 last which I went half size down from brannock. Support is towards the back of my arch which I like.
Ordered the same size with franks and the arch feels more in the middle of my foot/ arch. I see on their website they recommend full size down from the brannock.
Do they just build their arches differently? And this changes the whole boot?
@@freakyfighter5 good question. It’s clear there are differences in their builds.
The 55 last fits different. I was on the phone with them today, and they told I could size a half size down at the same width.
I’ve familiar with the 55 Last in Whites. Franks 55 fits way bigger than Whites 55.
@@EDHBlvd in width or length?
@@rogerr.8507width.
Dales leather works has the best leather insoles out there!
Strange about the sizing. Great looking boots
You have Franks and Whites, both same size and same Last? Do they fit identical?
What’s even more odd is the heel fit on this 11E is great. Feels just about as snug as the heel on my 11D boots.
@@EDHBlvd my white’s are a lace to toe, but I can’t say if it’s much of a difference , I can’t feel that. Maybe your Franks is a custom made one?
@@qltyboots seller said they are off the shelf size. Nothing on boot collar suggests otherwise. I’d think they would mark them if they were a customized Last.
@@EDHBlvd That’s true. Maybe Frank’s width is different than the others?
Probably a little big. Shame because they are awesome boots. I have some franks front ranges and they are my best fitting boots. I love the 55 last, but my wife does give me shit about the high heel 😂
Oh and my whites are a half size bigger than my franks but they feel about the same and supposedly are both on the 55.
@@catfashbellywell my Franks in 11E feel like 3 widths wider than the three pairs of Whites I owned in 11D. I’ve sold all the whites. The franks work with Nicks leather insole and thick boot socks. I’ve kept them.
My wife does the same to me😂
Frank’s Boots has the MOST custom options than any other PNW boot
Company, with that been said “Frank’s usually come” it’s an unfair assumption. Thanks for sharing !!
It was based off the stock models on their website. All PNW brands allow customizations, but you can’t compare those. Cheers and thanks for watching.
Hey man, I just came across your channel, you mention selling boots, I have a pair of franks that are lightly worn and just way too big for me, could you point me to a place that I could sell them? I'm having trouble on certain platforms because they are wildland fire boots and a little niche, however they would be perfect for trade work. They are 11.5 D Ground Pounder all black roughout, wonderful boots, just too damn big.
I just sold 3 pairs on eBay.
How much?
@@rajendeol how much for what? This pair of Franks or the boots I sold on eBay?
@@EDHBlvd sorry, thought I was messaging the guy who asked you where to sell his boots. I actually, found his posting on eBay. Thanks
Dude, seriously, just watching this video I’m laughing, so hard, boot addict is right, it’s out of control, someone needs to intervene
It’s hopeless for me. I can’t be saved. 😂
One of us, one of us
Like most of us boot nerds, I've owned multiple pair from all the pnw makers. They all make a great boot, but in my experience Franks, is just a little better than the rest
@@ryanmurphy7422 unfortunately my experience with Franks is only a used pair off eBay and seller lied and claimed they were off the shelf 11E only to realize months later they are a custom fitting. This explained why the toe box is so huge.
I’m not a fan of franks super high heels. They seem higher than Nicks Classic. However my main reason for not buying them is their god awful website and return policies. Site claims 15% restock charge. Nicks doesn’t charge you a dime.
How high is the heel?
It’s the classic heel. A good 2” high. Kinda too much if you ask me.
Frank worked at Nicks for 20 years as there general manager and know how to build PNW his boots are build the same as Nicks and the original owner of of Nicks cut his teeth at Whites boots little history
I bought my first pair of Nick’s Alaska Tundra 64 for wildland fire in 1997 when Frank was still there. Now that he’s moved in to Frank’s I’m still following him whatever he calls his boots. Frank now markets the Nick’s Alaska Tundra as the Frank’s Ground Pounder.
I’m sold on my mid-1990 Nick’s boots now that he’s now Frank’s Boots!
Sweeeet.
God those are nice boots
You a size 11E?
@@EDHBlvd why yes lol or 10.5 d
@@EDHBlvdI wear a 10.5 d in whites and Wesco so an 11e would be roomy for sure, but I love those boots
@@EDHBlvd now that I see this video more it sounds like they would be too big
@@jonathanvermillion7263 for sure. I am 11.5D brannock and fit Nicks 11E’s, and these franks fit huge.
That may be a Wilshire boot
Read the box. Front range.
If you call Franks, you will find out that that boot comes standard 8-inch but can be ordered in a six-inch. You would clearly wear a Franks boot in an 11-D. Frank worked for Nicks before he started his own company and is very knowledgeable. You clearly bought a boot that was specially ordered. The width has nothing to do with the 55last. The last remains the same even if you change the width. I would sell them and order the size that fits. You are clearly like me. I have made the same mistakes. I ordered boots that were cheaper on eBay feeling guilty about the cost. In the long run, I would have saved a lot of money just driving from Louisiana to Franks and trying on the boots. I would have been a one-boot-man, and saved hundreds. It always bugged me that they slightly didn't fit just right---even after stretching them, etc. I am a person that cannot be satisfied unless something does what it is supposed to do and the overall fit quality is a ***good-fit.😎😎
Dude, I'll try to reassure you, the boots don't look like women's boots. In fact, heeled shoes were originally worn by men. then the women took away the shoes with heels from the men. therefore, these women's shoes with heels look like men's shoes... I hope you can now accept this more easily...
Haha they actually look fine when wearing them. But I still prefer Moderate heel.