Did you guys find this interesting or surprising? I thought it was crazy that the Daytona camera positions haven’t changed in 20+ years. Made the editing really easy 😂
Found this very interesting and I thought the same with the camera angles too. Cant wait to see what you have planned for the Monte Carlo. Keep the content coming
yea more like indy and formula 1, but sometimes one loves the sound of the more gutteral natural asperated old style silver crown, and offenhouser engines sounds, like reeeeehhhhggg, vs neeeeeee rooom
Ahh, so I’m not the only person who still geeks out over Gen 4 plate package exhaust sounds. That was pretty much the whole reason why I liked plate racing. Fond memories from back then. I was in high school for much of it.. nothing beat coming home to my late father’s every Friday, flipping on SPEED channel, and watching practice/qualifying. Always loved hearing the different exhaust notes in time trials, thought DEI and Penske always had the best sounding cars but the later Hendrick plate package exhaust had a pretty good deep tone too. I always thought some of the subtle variations were due to different header/collector configurations fwiw. Good stuff on this channel 🍻
I was as bit younger, but boy did I live on SpeedVision. I was hooked, there was nothing better than being able to throw on Speed in the middle of the night and land on an epic GT race, SCCA, MotorWeek, you name it. Those guys covered everything. I love NASCAR, but I was actually bummed when it switched to Speed Channel and went majority NASCAR, felt it lost something along the way. Regardless, I'll cherish those memories staying up late and watching racing from around the world.
I used to go to Daytona and talladega in the early 2000’s. Sitting in the front stretch and hearing the cars come out of turn two always gave me chills. You could hear the engines rpm start to turn up. You can feel it as much as you can hear it.
Definitely could hear the difference in the different teams sound. I work at Talladega Superspeedway, I can't help to stop to listen and watch. Old school cars at Dega hitting the backstretch. And whining out was amazing, these now. Don't sound too bad, they have split exhaust now. A left and right exit instead of being collected and ran out from the drivers side
Such a cool bit of racing history, more stuff like this would be killer. A few years ago I remember watching one of the tv networks do a lap by lap comparison of a modern stock car vs its 15-20 year old version, and I have always wondered what was being that.
I remember watching nascar with my grandparents in like 2007 and hearing that sound, especially when the cars flew past the camera in that one shot, and I turned on a race a few years ago and it just didn’t sound the same. It’s cool to see what the difference is and it’s awesome how close the Escalade sounds to it on those flybys. Super pumped for all the projects coming down the line on this channel👍🏻
The sound from the 1987 Winston 500 (famous Bobby one) is probably my fav. Listen to the first few laps of it with the pack and no restrictors. Very throaty and badass.
The absolute loudest ever was the Winston 500 in 1989 at Talladega for whatever reason. I could not hear the guy next to me when the pack was in turns 3-4 for the first 10-15 laps. We were probably 1/2 mile or more away from them. No idea why but that year was incredibly loud.
Another great video. No joke, I got an x pipe from them for my 94 Mustang that cost a small fortune back then. It was slow, but with that no cats and flow masters everyone loved it! I got a ticket going 121 MPH on the I240 loop around Memphis with the windows down. The echo off the concrete barriers was addictive!
Hello...I got you and the OP covered on the 180° headers...look at my comment from a few minutes ago...and watch the video...even before the cross tube exhaust sound at the plate tracks....this is my favorite race engine sound of all time 🏁👍🏁
I was at Daytona in 1995 after Sterling Marlin's victory (and attended several IROC races afterward) and being an avid exhaust nerd like you, came home with a newspaper showing a picture of Bobby Labonte's practice wreck, showing the Dr. Gas pipe to the world... I measured the picture knowing the actual pipe size and calculated the eliptical opening to be the same area as the tube when two 90 deg. bends were sliced to the right depth. I fabricated one of these for my street car and it was unbelievable how the sound and midrange torque were improved. I am sure I was the first guy in my area to have one of these things! it's great to know that there are others out there who are as inspired as I was to be doing this, and still talking about it today. I've seen the best and worst of Nascar- Thanks for all that you are doing to keep it alive!
Back in the early days of the NASCAR Craftsman truck series I built many Dr Gas “X” pipe exhaust. At that time you could order “X” sections with different angles, at times it was a real pain to get everything to fit. With boom tubes there was a maximum length of the opening, and we had to run mufflers at some tracks because of a max db level. When we went out for practice if the db reading was too high we had to fix it at the track. We would show up with different tricks to add if needed, cones, steel wool, baffles, and shields. It seems that in the early 2000’s there was a problem getting Dr Gas parts, can’t remember the reason, but we tried to fab our own “x” section, it never worked as good. Interesting fact - I’ve seen Ducati motorcycles with “X” pipes
Yes great video. V8 Supercars here in Australia are the same. They used to wail like crazy. Now, not so much. Combination of merge collector and X pipe. HOWEVER, it is also somewhat related to fuel (E85 now not petrol) because it changes the tuning for fuel efficiency, which does change the sound a little too.
If you put the x pipe as close as possible to the headers, but the pipes had to go all the way to the back of the car, would it still sound similar to nascar or would the extra pipe/bending mess up the sound
@@trashbandit2449 When he says closer to the collectors, you've got to remember most of these tuned length racing header systems run way down under the car back to pretty much the rear of the gearbox. So 'close' to the collectors still ends up being in the middle of the car.
@@dons1932 yes the longer collectors and the design of them is actually the key to the sound from what I've discovered. They wouldn't work without the x pipe, but if you look up nascar headers, they have an extended tri y design that evens pulses and creates a higher revving noise
Cool to see another engine sound nerd! I'm obsessed with that high revving V8 noise. That's why I want to build a solid roller 7500+ rpm LS and put it in a C5 Corvette with either Kooks or ARH headers + x-pipe. Hopefully this will happen soon!
Spent about double and combined parts from 3 companies to have a dr gas freq mod muffler on my truck that increases the pitch and sounds great. No popping raspy bull crap sound. Super exhaust nerd cant wait.
Reminds me that even with no check-engine light on, with my father's 2012 Jeep Liberty, the 3.7 V6 often seems oddly dull-sounding, almost like it's losing 2 cylinders! It may be variable, sounding worse on some days, need to investigate, if I ride with him in it again, when he gets on route 91. (interstate) Honestly, it sometimes sounds similar to the exhaust note heard on a Jeep 4.0 I6, when it was being destroyed by someone in the "cash-for-clunkers" program, saw and heard that video on YT some years ago.
Thank you for this video. I built my exhaust based on everything you researched and shared. My buddy riding with me said he had never heard a SBF sound like it. It is an amazing sound. Hot 351w through long tubes, 3” x pipe 15” from collector. Straight out the side through flowmaster FX straight thru round mufflers. Every drive is a big grin. Thank you for sharing all this information.
I think everyone should hear a cup car in person at least once. I can’t speak at all about newer NASCAR but used to work on older ones from 2001-2003. Absolutely beautiful sound that cannot be captured in video especially solo not in a pack on a track (that sounds great though too).
Never actually seen a stock car on the track, it I was standing next to one of the demo cars when they fired that bad boy up... I was standing almost right next to the exhaust pipe, when they revved it up to get it on the trailer, it rattled my body so hard I thought I may have lost a tooth... And maybe a kidney... Nothing like it...
@@therayven3147 Some, very few but still some demo/promo cars have cup engines. I worked for a guy that ran in the ARCA series which at the time most were Winston Cup/Nextel Cup cars that teams retired or wasn’t to their liking anymore, sometimes NASCAR would change so many rules it’s just worth building new cars but the “old” ones may still fit ARCA rules. He was also going to be going into the Bush series (didn’t happen though). My boss bought a lot of these cars and used them for his promotions company that people would pay to have these on display to bring in customers. All of his cars either were race ready or just rollers that we could put a drivetrain in and race. He also was trying to open a driving experience like the Petty Driving Experience. So between racing,driving school,promo cars we had quite a bit of cars and he preferred as many of them as possible to be race ready because people paid more for those cars to be showed at their businesses and he never knew when he was going to wad one up at a race and need another car. Finally to the point😂 That car you stood by may have had a race engine still in it. A lot of those cars that other people show “race ready” have worn engines that would need rebuilding to be competitive but still sound pretty much the same.
Dude I respect how you make videos now and then elaborating on specific things you have said or talked about in the past or present day. It's always refreshing knowing when one of your video uploads it'll be something worth anyone's time. Always informative, informal, comfortable car guy talk. Be safe homie.
When I built my exhaust, I put in an x-pipe. A lot of people comment on the sound. It sounds like it's turning a lot more RPM than what it actually is. Very distinct tone. My neighbor that lives across the street, and has had to unfortunately listen to it in varying stages, described the difference between bare open headers and having the x pipe as "It doesn't sound as violent, but it's definitely racier". I have to agree with him.
Man i just stumbled across your channel a few days ago and i love everything you guys are about! Im 31 years old and love everything cars and Nascar! Your channel is awesome and I thank you for getting around and helping the younger generations learn about the good old days and everything nascar! Im glued to your channel, its cool to hear from and see stuff from the old guys! Love that Monte Carlo by the way!
I,m so happy to see you stomp that porsche in Austin as the difference between a porsche and a porcupine is the porcupine has the pricks on the outside
This is the video I’ve been looking for my whole life as to why nascar sounds changed so much over the years. I always assumed it was the switch from carburetors to fuel injection but I knew that couldn’t be it…
You are like me Mr Stapleton: Once I get into a certain topic it's full-on research to the point of single-minded obsession! I love your dedication to knowledge and learning and getting to the truth of things. You'd make a great investigative journalist.
There’s nothing like hearing that “hum” when the engines are reverberating of the walls and it creates this humming sound. It creates chills all over your body. I’m sorry that you never got to hear these engines in real life. They sounded so much better live than on tv
I was a traveling NASCAR nerd and went to every super speedway event for most years. It is very clear that today’s NASCAR is much lower in pitch… they still sound awesome, but not as awesome as circa 1995-2005… you are spot on there
I'm so glad you are into Dr. Gas and his X-Pipe system. Finally someone giving him a proper nod. I've known of the system for a while now because like you I had the same questions about that unique sounding era. I was also in love with IROC as a kid, I remember going to the track and the main race ended and everyone ready to leave, but I made them stay to watch the IROC race. They were an absolutely beautiful car, sounded to match those looks, and the fact it was basically a spec series so pure driver skill was at play was awesome. Great memories all around, and again, I'm glad you are giving this subject the attention that it deserves.
New subscriber here. You've nailed it !! Performance exhaust fabrication and installation put my 3 kids thru a Christian School. 2 of them thru college.and 1 thru vocational school. Many variables impact the final exhaust note on the 3 systems you've highlighted. Looking forward to your findings.
I get serious nostalgia hearing the old restrictor plate races. They sounded so good. I always assumed the engines were different and revved higher. Glad to know more after your research. If you have time this year you should go to an air show somewhere if they allow spectators anywhere ever again. I’d like to hear your thoughts on different fighter jet engine sounds too. I feel like they’re a different category of the same type of interest as the difference in an H-pipe and X-pipe. I’ve fount out my interests correlate a lot with your videos. Keep doing your thing. Sorry for the book I just wrote lmao.
Love the video, and the answer to your question about firing order changes affecting sound is: absolutely. The extreme examples would include the famous “bundle of snakes” headers on the GT40s, or even a LS with 180° headers. It’s also important to remember that the sequence of the pipes entering the header collector plays an important role in exhaust scavenging, and I really think that the X-piped systems excelled at this, in addition to having killer acoustics. I too fell down this rabbit hole many years ago when I was doing a lot of street racing. I had an ear for motors, and could turn my back to the street and tell the guy next to me if a Chevy, Ford, or Mopar was driving past, and if it was a big block or small block. I claimed a lot of $5 bills that way back in the day.
As a non American, I love the H pipe sound. I'm not used to hearing V8s everyday. That crackly, bassy gurgle with the extremely aggressive bark does it for me.
If you like total V8 Rumble, I suspect you'll like proper sidepipes. The Garage 56 Nascar is a sidepipe car with very unusual tri-Y headers. Another sweet rumble would be the C7 GTE and Aston Martin V8 Vantage GTE. A really sweet snarl would be the BMW Z4 GT3.
Curves in the pipe is what gives a cackle sound is all I knew for a long time till I found out it affects many things such as fuel mileage how the performance of the motor is affected and in different motors.... in order to truly know performance you need to know (everything) involved with that performance. It gets very complicated when it comes to (perfect) performance.
Great info bud, very interesting to watch. I live 20 mins from Daytona International Speedway and had the opportunity to hear these cars my whole childhood. Racing had a very different vibe then it does now and I miss a lot about the cars in the 90's, especially the sound they made at Daytona.
I lived in Daytona Beach in 2007 - 2009. Like 1 mile away from the track on Jimmy Ann Drive. I could hear the nascar races in my living room. Those cars were loud as hell. The only races I could here inside.
Nothing beats the sound of stock cars flying by in a pack, that monte carlo is gonna sound fucking wicked! I'm half tempted to even try and mimmic that in my tbss, but who knows if I have the clearance necessary.
Wasnt sure about your videos at first but man i gotta say iv grown to really enjoy them and stuff like this is great information most would never know otherwise.
Excellent video. I have always wondered why they don't sound as exciting now. Also back then that turn 3 camera shot with the field going by. Jesus!!! Eargasm!
Myself kinda did a lot of racing mowers, street/strip, and trailer queens. This block I grew up on was noise pollution central. Exhaust is very important for power. I saw the H pipe in a magazine. I was thinking there was a better way for our street and pro cars to go faster. Myself will not claim to be the first to build one and had never seen on. A bit of scrap metal and some body tools, when we fired the first one up, I was agasp. The time slips did not lie.
Sat in backstretch stands for last 500 before they got torn down. My non-NASCAR friends were immediately sold by the roar of the pack. (Overhauling my GM 3.8 V6 turbo build, which sounds smoother due to centered collection, but 100% agree & an LS build is in the future)
Speaking on the firing order. Anybody remember Need For Speed most wanted 2005? The glorious sounding BMW M3 GTR (e46) from the cover. I’ve ALWAYS wanted to replicate that sound. After much much research I’ve found that it was a flat plane crankshaft 4.0 v8 race motor (P60b40) developed by BMW and Siemens for their ALMS racecar. The motor was only made for the race program and not the public so there were only a few made. I have always wondered if somebody could take the S62B40 4.0 cross plane V8 from the BMW M5 (e39) and convert it to flat plane and adjust the firing order to make it possible and replicate the sound of that glorious race motor the M3 GTR had. And don’t tell me it was the sound of the transmission. That is the sound of the gear whine yes, but I am referring to the exhaust note of the engine not the singing angels of those straight cut gears.
I was talking to the screen about Morgan McClure when you went there! 180 headers, Try Y, I have been an exhaust geek for life. As a teenager I sent to all the header company’s for catalogs, studying all the Engine families, even Ford!
THIS!!! All of it!!! I’ve been an x-pipe fanboy for a long time!! Since I read the first articles in a grassroots Motorsports magazine. Front that point I put a straight, Pypes x-pipe system on my ‘94 LT1 Caprice. With the xpipe, it was quieter at idle than my buddy’s Impala SS with the flow master cat back system, but on full rip... booooyyyy MINE was a SCREAMER!!! Keep at it. The content is 🔥🔥
Crazy I was around during all of these era's and never thought about the sound and why, because I already knew and had been around the inner workings of these platforms, but to most outsiders and even some Car Guys/Enthusiasts didn't know and i never thought about that fact. Funny I just explained this to my cousin not long ego, and he argued with me, so I sent him this video lol I never will forget in 94 Sterling Marlin sound and my pops and I looked at each other and said, well that secret will get out soon..us of course knew the reason.
I attended the 1987 Firecracker 400 and one of the coolest parts was when they come out of turn two I believe and hit that backstretch and from the grandstands where we sat that awesome echoey sound of all the cars together coming from across the track was the coolest sound ever , thanks for appreciating the sound aspect of why we enjoyed those older race cars
@@Stapleton42 I was thinking about doing that with my 408 big block but I'm just trying to get it running before I go to wyotech this summer at this point. I love your videos and I only get more excited for the racecar life that I am going to try and be a part of.
I'm with you, I'm an exhaust tone nerd! I still remember the first time I heard an X-pipe. I was around 21 and at the drag strip with my dad. There was a guy with a '67 Nova that had a different that was different than anything I'd ever heard. I went to ask him about it and he said it was an x-pipe off the headers and straight pipes dumped before the axle. I've been hooked ever since.
The only v8 I've ever heard that's anywhere close to those old school nascars is Tanner fousts drift vw with a v8 and equal length 8-1 headers so you can hear every single cylinder fire instead of every other cylinder
@@stevenplaskett7728 oh shit yeah I completely forgot about that thing, that was another guy that built it all himself on his drive if I remember rightly
Oh my gosh before I forget Haha, the picture of the vintage 31 car bout to roll as a reference to a true on car picture of the said exhaust is priceless and very uniquely Stapleton.
@Stapleton42. Exhaust nerd here since working in a muffler shop after HS. Most of my freinds would leave the exhaust to the end and not give it much attention. Im the exhaust nerd like you mang. Thanks for your input here.
I recently did research on the h pipe and x pipe and it’s crazy how much of a difference they make. The x pipe puts so much more of a vacuum on your exhaust. I’d love to see a difference in the LS firing order. Also look into the differences in how x pipe are made and what works better.
Love watching your quest for nascar sounds!! You can definitely tell the difference on the lsx also! Great idea! It’s the little thangs... and your on to something here
For those who don't know, it is much more difficult and costs substantially more money ( due to the engineering, research & development, all very time consuming ) to create a restrictor plate engine vs a cup car engine without the restrictor plate. The engineers & engine builders don't just take a race engine they built, and "simply slap a restrictor plate on it". They are actually creating an engine that responds as well as possible with a restrictor plate.
I love this I heard this from watching nascar back in the day but I never gave it a second thought. Love the science behind it. I am a bigger exhaust nerd than I was before.
From ages 18-20, I spent so much time at my local exhaust shop that I could go into their workspace and just hang out and shoot the shit while they welded her up. Love being able to alter the idle, casual sound going through the gears and WOT, nothing more fun than playing with an engines sound.
The sound of a vehicle is more important then the look in my opinion. Chop at idol and screaming at top end are a big part of my love of cars. Header length and primarys are fun experiments that I plan on playing with in my build. Keep up the great content and make the pig sound good.
Heck yeah brother. I just made my first exhaust for my twin turbo Durango cant wait to hear it when im able to get everything tuned, which is hard to do and find some one lol. Great video love the old NASCAR sounds.
Did you guys find this interesting or surprising? I thought it was crazy that the Daytona camera positions haven’t changed in 20+ years. Made the editing really easy 😂
The camera positions have never changed around the track because they where specifically built and reinforced for protection in those areas.
NO MAN WHY THE X PIPE BUT WAIT DOSENT A X PIPE GET HOLLOW IN CENTER>????????????????????
Did you find the shitbag that broke into your truck? *security cameras and systems on all your vehicles.
Found this very interesting and I thought the same with the camera angles too. Cant wait to see what you have planned for the Monte Carlo. Keep the content coming
Yes plz do more on this
The old nascar sounds have a special place in my heart
AMEN!
I agree and so do F1…..
Mine too brother!
same
There was nothing like the sound of those older NASCAR cars. That scream was absolutely awesome.
yea more like indy and formula 1, but sometimes one loves the sound of the more gutteral natural asperated old style silver crown, and offenhouser engines sounds, like reeeeehhhhggg, vs neeeeeee rooom
What wasn't awesome about NASCAR in the 90s?
@@roberthill2219 everything was awesome
Now this is the kind of educational programming they need to have in school
I agree 😂
I teach high school Auto classes, and I usually tangent on this at least once per semester
Ahh, so I’m not the only person who still geeks out over Gen 4 plate package exhaust sounds. That was pretty much the whole reason why I liked plate racing.
Fond memories from back then. I was in high school for much of it.. nothing beat coming home to my late father’s every Friday, flipping on SPEED channel, and watching practice/qualifying. Always loved hearing the different exhaust notes in time trials, thought DEI and Penske always had the best sounding cars but the later Hendrick plate package exhaust had a pretty good deep tone too. I always thought some of the subtle variations were due to different header/collector configurations fwiw.
Good stuff on this channel 🍻
I was as bit younger, but boy did I live on SpeedVision. I was hooked, there was nothing better than being able to throw on Speed in the middle of the night and land on an epic GT race, SCCA, MotorWeek, you name it. Those guys covered everything. I love NASCAR, but I was actually bummed when it switched to Speed Channel and went majority NASCAR, felt it lost something along the way. Regardless, I'll cherish those memories staying up late and watching racing from around the world.
I used to go to Daytona and talladega in the early 2000’s. Sitting in the front stretch and hearing the cars come out of turn two always gave me chills. You could hear the engines rpm start to turn up. You can feel it as much as you can hear it.
Definitely could hear the difference in the different teams sound. I work at Talladega Superspeedway, I can't help to stop to listen and watch. Old school cars at Dega hitting the backstretch. And whining out was amazing, these now. Don't sound too bad, they have split exhaust now. A left and right exit instead of being collected and ran out from the drivers side
I'm old. I knew about the x pipe in the old days. Just never thought about. You think like an old person. I like that.
When you said "I don't actually watch nascar anymore, I used to go to the races as a kid" you became legitimate in my eyes.
Good 💪🏻😂
I've watched Nascar for the best part of 40yrs. Nothing has ever sounded as good as the Dr Gas exhaust system on the cars.
Lol I’ve changed exhaust on cars 3 or 4 times to get the sound just right.
Such a cool bit of racing history, more stuff like this would be killer. A few years ago I remember watching one of the tv networks do a lap by lap comparison of a modern stock car vs its 15-20 year old version, and I have always wondered what was being that.
This needs to be a series. I love the idea of firing order swapping.
I remember watching nascar with my grandparents in like 2007 and hearing that sound, especially when the cars flew past the camera in that one shot, and I turned on a race a few years ago and it just didn’t sound the same. It’s cool to see what the difference is and it’s awesome how close the Escalade sounds to it on those flybys. Super pumped for all the projects coming down the line on this channel👍🏻
i tell people this all the time miss the old school high pitched sound i still can hear it in my head from goin to the tracks
The sound from the 1987 Winston 500 (famous Bobby one) is probably my fav. Listen to the first few laps of it with the pack and no restrictors. Very throaty and badass.
The absolute loudest ever was the Winston 500 in 1989 at Talladega for whatever reason. I could not hear the guy next to me when the pack was in turns 3-4 for the first 10-15 laps. We were probably 1/2 mile or more away from them. No idea why but that year was incredibly loud.
Another great video. No joke, I got an x pipe from them for my 94 Mustang that cost a small fortune back then. It was slow, but with that no cats and flow masters everyone loved it! I got a ticket going 121 MPH on the I240 loop around Memphis with the windows down. The echo off the concrete barriers was addictive!
Some 180 degree headers would be pretty sweet to build and try out, they have such a unique sound
Hello...I got you and the OP covered on the 180° headers...look at my comment from a few minutes ago...and watch the video...even before the cross tube exhaust sound at the plate tracks....this is my favorite race engine sound of all time
🏁👍🏁
180 headers mimic flat plane crank because of the firing pulses etc
I was at Daytona in 1995 after Sterling Marlin's victory (and attended several IROC races afterward) and being an avid exhaust nerd like you, came home with a newspaper showing a picture of Bobby Labonte's practice wreck, showing the Dr. Gas pipe to the world... I measured the picture knowing the actual pipe size and calculated the eliptical opening to be the same area as the tube when two 90 deg. bends were sliced to the right depth. I fabricated one of these for my street car and it was unbelievable how the sound and midrange torque were improved. I am sure I was the first guy in my area to have one of these things! it's great to know that there are others out there who are as inspired as I was to be doing this, and still talking about it today. I've seen the best and worst of Nascar- Thanks for all that you are doing to keep it alive!
Thanks man!
Back in the early days of the NASCAR Craftsman truck series I built many Dr Gas “X” pipe exhaust. At that time you could order “X” sections with different angles, at times it was a real pain to get everything to fit. With boom tubes there was a maximum length of the opening, and we had to run mufflers at some tracks because of a max db level. When we went out for practice if the db reading was too high we had to fix it at the track. We would show up with different tricks to add if needed, cones, steel wool, baffles, and shields.
It seems that in the early 2000’s there was a problem getting Dr Gas parts, can’t remember the reason, but we tried to fab our own “x” section, it never worked as good.
Interesting fact - I’ve seen Ducati motorcycles with “X” pipes
This is fascinating
I used to watch a lot of NASCAR and had no idea they don’t sound like they used to. Good stuff
Fun fact: the closer you put the X pipe to the collectors, the higher the pitch.
Yep. And an 8-into-1 with equal length primaries and a properly sized merge-collector will sound even more insane.
Yes great video. V8 Supercars here in Australia are the same. They used to wail like crazy. Now, not so much.
Combination of merge collector and X pipe. HOWEVER, it is also somewhat related to fuel (E85 now not petrol) because it changes the tuning for fuel efficiency, which does change the sound a little too.
If you put the x pipe as close as possible to the headers, but the pipes had to go all the way to the back of the car, would it still sound similar to nascar or would the extra pipe/bending mess up the sound
@@trashbandit2449 When he says closer to the collectors, you've got to remember most of these tuned length racing header systems run way down under the car back to pretty much the rear of the gearbox. So 'close' to the collectors still ends up being in the middle of the car.
@@dons1932 yes the longer collectors and the design of them is actually the key to the sound from what I've discovered. They wouldn't work without the x pipe, but if you look up nascar headers, they have an extended tri y design that evens pulses and creates a higher revving noise
This is awesome! I'm a sucker for old NASCAR sounds too. The firing order swap sounds interesting. Can't wait to see/hear how that goes.
I'm so excited to hear the Monte Carlo with the Xpipe
Cool to see another engine sound nerd! I'm obsessed with that high revving V8 noise. That's why I want to build a solid roller 7500+ rpm LS and put it in a C5 Corvette with either Kooks or ARH headers + x-pipe. Hopefully this will happen soon!
I definitely enjoy learning about exhaust sounds. I always liked how the Duralast trophy truck sounded with the 8 into 1 collector.
Spent about double and combined parts from 3 companies to have a dr gas freq mod muffler on my truck that increases the pitch and sounds great. No popping raspy bull crap sound.
Super exhaust nerd cant wait.
Reminds me that even with no check-engine light on, with my father's 2012 Jeep Liberty, the 3.7 V6 often seems oddly dull-sounding, almost like it's losing 2 cylinders! It may be variable, sounding worse on some days, need to investigate, if I ride with him in it again, when he gets on route 91. (interstate) Honestly, it sometimes sounds similar to the exhaust note heard on a Jeep 4.0 I6, when it was being destroyed by someone in the "cash-for-clunkers" program, saw and heard that video on YT some years ago.
Ive gone to Pocono in the 70s and 80s , thanks Dad.
Can't wait to see this stuff.......
Thank you for this video. I built my exhaust based on everything you researched and shared. My buddy riding with me said he had never heard a SBF sound like it. It is an amazing sound. Hot 351w through long tubes, 3” x pipe 15” from collector. Straight out the side through flowmaster FX straight thru round mufflers. Every drive is a big grin. Thank you for sharing all this information.
Thank you Pete!
I think everyone should hear a cup car in person at least once. I can’t speak at all about newer NASCAR but used to work on older ones from 2001-2003. Absolutely beautiful sound that cannot be captured in video especially solo not in a pack on a track (that sounds great though too).
Never actually seen a stock car on the track, it I was standing next to one of the demo cars when they fired that bad boy up... I was standing almost right next to the exhaust pipe, when they revved it up to get it on the trailer, it rattled my body so hard I thought I may have lost a tooth... And maybe a kidney... Nothing like it...
@@therayven3147 Some, very few but still some demo/promo cars have cup engines. I worked for a guy that ran in the ARCA series which at the time most were Winston Cup/Nextel Cup cars that teams retired or wasn’t to their liking anymore, sometimes NASCAR would change so many rules it’s just worth building new cars but the “old” ones may still fit ARCA rules. He was also going to be going into the Bush series (didn’t happen though). My boss bought a lot of these cars and used them for his promotions company that people would pay to have these on display to bring in customers. All of his cars either were race ready or just rollers that we could put a drivetrain in and race. He also was trying to open a driving experience like the Petty Driving Experience. So between racing,driving school,promo cars we had quite a bit of cars and he preferred as many of them as possible to be race ready because people paid more for those cars to be showed at their businesses and he never knew when he was going to wad one up at a race and need another car. Finally to the point😂 That car you stood by may have had a race engine still in it. A lot of those cars that other people show “race ready” have worn engines that would need rebuilding to be competitive but still sound pretty much the same.
@@deegan727 hmmm... Well, whatever the case, it still was amazing though...
Dude I respect how you make videos now and then elaborating on specific things you have said or talked about in the past or present day. It's always refreshing knowing when one of your video uploads it'll be something worth anyone's time. Always informative, informal, comfortable car guy talk. Be safe homie.
This was very fun to watch. Agree. The Sound the car makes is part of it. Been following you more and more
When I built my exhaust, I put in an x-pipe. A lot of people comment on the sound. It sounds like it's turning a lot more RPM than what it actually is. Very distinct tone. My neighbor that lives across the street, and has had to unfortunately listen to it in varying stages, described the difference between bare open headers and having the x pipe as "It doesn't sound as violent, but it's definitely racier". I have to agree with him.
Definitely a fellow exhaust sound nerd. Couldn't get enough of this video. The escalade sounds sick 🤟🏼 Can't wait to hear what the monte sounds like
You like nascar old school exhaust?...check out Cale yarborough. 1977, Junior Johnson #11 fitted with 180s...my favorite stock car sound of all time
Man i just stumbled across your channel a few days ago and i love everything you guys are about! Im 31 years old and love everything cars and Nascar! Your channel is awesome and I thank you for getting around and helping the younger generations learn about the good old days and everything nascar! Im glued to your channel, its cool to hear from and see stuff from the old guys! Love that Monte Carlo by the way!
I,m so happy to see you stomp that porsche in Austin as the difference between a porsche and a porcupine is the porcupine has the pricks on the outside
It’s not just you geeking out!! I’m geeking hard!!🤙🏻
This is the video I’ve been looking for my whole life as to why nascar sounds changed so much over the years. I always assumed it was the switch from carburetors to fuel injection but I knew that couldn’t be it…
You are like me Mr Stapleton: Once I get into a certain topic it's full-on research to the point of single-minded obsession! I love your dedication to knowledge and learning and getting to the truth of things. You'd make a great investigative journalist.
Thanks man 💪🏻
I'm the same way about secondary sounds, love that sound, miss it actually, thank you for the video, amazing people
There’s nothing like hearing that “hum” when the engines are reverberating of the walls and it creates this humming sound. It creates chills all over your body. I’m sorry that you never got to hear these engines in real life. They sounded so much better live than on tv
“That’s what she said “ 😆😂👍
Can’t wait to hear what you come up with
I was a traveling NASCAR nerd and went to every super speedway event for most years. It is very clear that today’s NASCAR is much lower in pitch… they still sound awesome, but not as awesome as circa 1995-2005… you are spot on there
Late 90s early 2000s Cup cars sounded orgasmic. And absolutely nothing beats a cross plain crank V8 for sound.
I'm so glad you are into Dr. Gas and his X-Pipe system. Finally someone giving him a proper nod. I've known of the system for a while now because like you I had the same questions about that unique sounding era. I was also in love with IROC as a kid, I remember going to the track and the main race ended and everyone ready to leave, but I made them stay to watch the IROC race. They were an absolutely beautiful car, sounded to match those looks, and the fact it was basically a spec series so pure driver skill was at play was awesome. Great memories all around, and again, I'm glad you are giving this subject the attention that it deserves.
New subscriber here. You've nailed it !! Performance exhaust fabrication and installation put my 3 kids thru a Christian School. 2 of them thru college.and 1 thru vocational school. Many variables impact the final exhaust note on the 3 systems you've highlighted. Looking forward to your findings.
Thanks man I am glad you’re here 🤟🏻
I’m an absolute exhaust nerd I love this series so much
I always liked the roar the 80’s and early 90’s cars had with H-pipe exhaust more myself.
I get serious nostalgia hearing the old restrictor plate races. They sounded so good. I always assumed the engines were different and revved higher. Glad to know more after your research. If you have time this year you should go to an air show somewhere if they allow spectators anywhere ever again. I’d like to hear your thoughts on different fighter jet engine sounds too. I feel like they’re a different category of the same type of interest as the difference in an H-pipe and X-pipe. I’ve fount out my interests correlate a lot with your videos. Keep doing your thing. Sorry for the book I just wrote lmao.
Thanks brother. I appreciate the nerd out lol I’m a nerd too
Get a hold of Richard Holdner on TH-cam he does a tone of LS testing maybe you could get him to help you out. He knows a lot of shit.
This!!
I...third THIS!
Never been more excited for a video series
This is the kind of stuff I like. When you watch nascar they never go into any tech at all anymore.
I know, right?... I miss the old 1990s NASCAR when they had the cutaway car and explained everything about the car...
Love the video, and the answer to your question about firing order changes affecting sound is: absolutely. The extreme examples would include the famous “bundle of snakes” headers on the GT40s, or even a LS with 180° headers.
It’s also important to remember that the sequence of the pipes entering the header collector plays an important role in exhaust scavenging, and I really think that the X-piped systems excelled at this, in addition to having killer acoustics.
I too fell down this rabbit hole many years ago when I was doing a lot of street racing. I had an ear for motors, and could turn my back to the street and tell the guy next to me if a Chevy, Ford, or Mopar was driving past, and if it was a big block or small block. I claimed a lot of $5 bills that way back in the day.
As a non American, I love the H pipe sound.
I'm not used to hearing V8s everyday.
That crackly, bassy gurgle with the extremely aggressive bark does it for me.
If you like total V8 Rumble, I suspect you'll like proper sidepipes. The Garage 56 Nascar is a sidepipe car with very unusual tri-Y headers. Another sweet rumble would be the C7 GTE and Aston Martin V8 Vantage GTE. A really sweet snarl would be the BMW Z4 GT3.
Fees like there isn't enough videos like these actually discussing the subject in depth. Good work!
Curves in the pipe is what gives a cackle sound is all I knew for a long time till I found out it affects many things such as fuel mileage how the performance of the motor is affected and in different motors.... in order to truly know performance you need to know (everything) involved with that performance. It gets very complicated when it comes to (perfect) performance.
Great info bud, very interesting to watch. I live 20 mins from Daytona International Speedway and had the opportunity to hear these cars my whole childhood. Racing had a very different vibe then it does now and I miss a lot about the cars in the 90's, especially the sound they made at Daytona.
The old sound brings back memories
I lived in Daytona Beach in 2007 - 2009. Like 1 mile away from the track on Jimmy Ann Drive. I could hear the nascar races in my living room. Those cars were loud as hell. The only races I could here inside.
Nothing beats the sound of stock cars flying by in a pack, that monte carlo is gonna sound fucking wicked! I'm half tempted to even try and mimmic that in my tbss, but who knows if I have the clearance necessary.
I'm still screening the archives. You are a very intelligent young man. Keep it up. You have a bright future.
Thanks Keith
this whole series turned out way cooler then i thought it would. i guess im a exhaust nerd too witch makes perfect sense now that i think of it
Wasnt sure about your videos at first but man i gotta say iv grown to really enjoy them and stuff like this is great information most would never know otherwise.
Thanks man. I’m glad you gave me a shot
@@Stapleton42 glad i did as well. Cant wait for more monte vids. Looks like a blast
Nice plug on the "thats what she said" 😂😂😂
Excellent video. I have always wondered why they don't sound as exciting now. Also back then that turn 3 camera shot with the field going by. Jesus!!! Eargasm!
Exactly man. That turn 3 pan shot is just the best
Myself kinda did a lot of racing mowers, street/strip, and trailer queens. This block I grew up on was noise pollution central. Exhaust is very important for power. I saw the H pipe in a magazine. I was thinking there was a better way for our street and pro cars to go faster. Myself will not claim to be the first to build one and had never seen on. A bit of scrap metal and some body tools, when we fired the first one up, I was agasp. The time slips did not lie.
Sat in backstretch stands for last 500 before they got torn down. My non-NASCAR friends were immediately sold by the roar of the pack.
(Overhauling my GM 3.8 V6 turbo build, which sounds smoother due to centered collection, but 100% agree & an LS build is in the future)
Speaking on the firing order. Anybody remember Need For Speed most wanted 2005? The glorious sounding BMW M3 GTR (e46) from the cover. I’ve ALWAYS wanted to replicate that sound. After much much research I’ve found that it was a flat plane crankshaft 4.0 v8 race motor (P60b40) developed by BMW and Siemens for their ALMS racecar. The motor was only made for the race program and not the public so there were only a few made. I have always wondered if somebody could take the S62B40 4.0 cross plane V8 from the BMW M5 (e39) and convert it to flat plane and adjust the firing order to make it possible and replicate the sound of that glorious race motor the M3 GTR had.
And don’t tell me it was the sound of the transmission. That is the sound of the gear whine yes, but I am referring to the exhaust note of the engine not the singing angels of those straight cut gears.
You could make 180 degree headers for the crossplane engine to mimic the firing order of the race engine within the exhaust
I was talking to the screen about Morgan McClure when you went there!
180 headers, Try Y, I have been an exhaust geek for life.
As a teenager I sent to all the header company’s for catalogs, studying all the Engine families, even Ford!
wonder if the popularity of NASCAR changed when they stopped sounding so good
It’s very possible
THIS!!! All of it!!! I’ve been an x-pipe fanboy for a long time!! Since I read the first articles in a grassroots Motorsports magazine. Front that point I put a straight, Pypes x-pipe system on my ‘94 LT1 Caprice. With the xpipe, it was quieter at idle than my buddy’s Impala SS with the flow master cat back system, but on full rip... booooyyyy MINE was a SCREAMER!!!
Keep at it. The content is 🔥🔥
Thanks brother. That’s what’s currently on my Monte Carlo actually is a pypes x pipe street pro system 🤟🏻
@@Stapleton42 and it sounds BAAAADDD!!! Can’t wait til you get the trans situation squared away, and we can REALLY hear it rip,
Crazy I was around during all of these era's and never thought about the sound and why, because I already knew and had been around the inner workings of these platforms, but to most outsiders and even some Car Guys/Enthusiasts didn't know and i never thought about that fact. Funny I just explained this to my cousin not long ego, and he argued with me, so I sent him this video lol I never will forget in 94 Sterling Marlin sound and my pops and I looked at each other and said, well that secret will get out soon..us of course knew the reason.
This is what I love about this channel just a wide range of content 👌
Good cause I’m a wide guy when it comes to my interest in things 😂
LOVE this. I want to do this with a high revving C6Z let’s make something happen!
I attended the 1987 Firecracker 400 and one of the coolest parts was when they come out of turn two I believe and hit that backstretch and from the grandstands where we sat that awesome echoey sound of all the cars together coming from across the track was the coolest sound ever , thanks for appreciating the sound aspect of why we enjoyed those older race cars
Thanks man. I love engine sounds 😂
im excited for the hoodies!!!!!
It makes me so happy to know someone else has a thing for that old nascar sound. Sounds so good
You should look at the Australian holden 5l v8 engine when it has a large cam in it it sounds wild.
Everything you posted so far as been good it's an enjoyment watching your videos keep up the good work bro
The big block is going to sound like a grizzly bear echoing through the valley when he is charging you with your exhaust philosophies
You got that right. I may do the 4/7 2/3 firing order swap just to give it a more unique “big block” sound
@@Stapleton42 I was thinking about doing that with my 408 big block but I'm just trying to get it running before I go to wyotech this summer at this point. I love your videos and I only get more excited for the racecar life that I am going to try and be a part of.
@@Stapleton42 come to Indiana and get my 91 Firebird running and sounding like a v8 lol
I'm with you, I'm an exhaust tone nerd! I still remember the first time I heard an X-pipe. I was around 21 and at the drag strip with my dad. There was a guy with a '67 Nova that had a different that was different than anything I'd ever heard. I went to ask him about it and he said it was an x-pipe off the headers and straight pipes dumped before the axle. I've been hooked ever since.
The only v8 I've ever heard that's anywhere close to those old school nascars is Tanner fousts drift vw with a v8 and equal length 8-1 headers so you can hear every single cylinder fire instead of every other cylinder
@@stevenplaskett7728 oh shit yeah I completely forgot about that thing, that was another guy that built it all himself on his drive if I remember rightly
Oh my gosh before I forget Haha, the picture of the vintage 31 car bout to roll as a reference to a true on car picture of the said exhaust is priceless and very uniquely Stapleton.
That is cool. Really interesting.
@Stapleton42. Exhaust nerd here since working in a muffler shop after HS. Most of my freinds would leave the exhaust to the end and not give it much attention. Im the exhaust nerd like you mang. Thanks for your input here.
Can’t wait to see all these nascar guys that get show a Escalade that is all zero f**ks given
Stoked to see where you take this. Been rethinking my exhaust for a while now. Giving me all kinds of ideas... lol.
Man i was screaming X pipe for 4min before you said x pipe. lol X X X :)
Fr though. The old cars had and un uniform whirling noise. The new ones have a constant drone that pretty much acts as white noise
I recently did research on the h pipe and x pipe and it’s crazy how much of a difference they make. The x pipe puts so much more of a vacuum on your exhaust. I’d love to see a difference in the LS firing order. Also look into the differences in how x pipe are made and what works better.
Love watching your quest for nascar sounds!! You can definitely tell the difference on the lsx also! Great idea! It’s the little thangs... and your on to something here
For those who don't know, it is much more difficult and costs substantially more money ( due to the engineering, research & development, all very time consuming ) to create a restrictor plate engine vs a cup car engine without the restrictor plate. The engineers & engine builders don't just take a race engine they built, and "simply slap a restrictor plate on it". They are actually creating an engine that responds as well as possible with a restrictor plate.
No
I love this I heard this from watching nascar back in the day but I never gave it a second thought. Love the science behind it. I am a bigger exhaust nerd than I was before.
Well, you just sold me on an x pipe exhaust.
I am a huge Nascar fan. I also used to roadrace motorcyles and have raced on just abut every track that Nascar uses
Listen... It’s a IROC!, it’s a NASCAR! , It’s LSXcalade!!
From ages 18-20, I spent so much time at my local exhaust shop that I could go into their workspace and just hang out and shoot the shit while they welded her up. Love being able to alter the idle, casual sound going through the gears and WOT, nothing more fun than playing with an engines sound.
The sound of a vehicle is more important then the look in my opinion. Chop at idol and screaming at top end are a big part of my love of cars. Header length and primarys are fun experiments that I plan on playing with in my build. Keep up the great content and make the pig sound good.
Thanks dude 🤟🏻
cant wait to hear Ralph sound like a nascar from when I was growing up..keep it up!
Jack stand jimmy a.k.a James taal know a thing or two about the 7-3 swap on an LS. It was just on a recent video from @fasterproms
It's a 4-7 Swap, but it's only used on Gen 1 and Gen 2 Chevy Small blocks, the last production on those was 2002.
Heck yeah brother. I just made my first exhaust for my twin turbo Durango cant wait to hear it when im able to get everything tuned, which is hard to do and find some one lol. Great video love the old NASCAR sounds.