Technical note here. Adding the noise of an XLR dummy just adds EIN preamp noise and isn't the same as adding a second SM7B because there would also be acoustic noise from your room environment added by the second mic. Bandrew's test was specifically about preamp noise so his testing is valid. Just note that in the real world you'd also have acoustic environmental noise added to the noise level of the room as well as potential bleed and phasing between mics. Adding a second mic would add 3dB to the noise floor, adding two would add 4.8dB and adding three would add 6dB. This is added to your noise floor level. Every time you double the number of microphones, it increases another 3dB. Thanks for the shout out Bandrew.
Late to the party:, yet still: If Nyquist noise in a 20 kHz bandwidth from the 150 ohm output impedance of the SM7b is the limiting factor, then the ultimate (S+N)/N ratio we can obtail with 1.12mV from the mic due to audio is 74 dB: Noise voltage = sqrt (20'000) * sqrt(150) * 0.13 * 10E-09 ~ 225 nV. (S+N)/N ~ 20 * log10(1.12E-03 / 225E-09) ~ 73.9 dB. However, according to the SM7b datasheet, the magnetic shielding of the mic is not all powerful, and residual mains hum pickup may be the actual S/N ratio limiter, as opposed to Nyquist noise.
I swear to God I have learned more about mics/interfaces/recording from watching your videos for like 3 months than I have in like 20+years as a musician and home recording enthusiast. Thanks for the quality content my dude.
I showed this channel to my wife, and she thought it was super boring. She isn’t into audio. On the other hand, you are my absolute favorite TH-camr. From the bottom of my heart, thank you so much for all you do and have helped me navigate audio concepts, purchasing decisions, fact vs fiction and rationale. You truly deserve every subscriber you have.
This is the best, most practical explanation of pre-amp noise I've seen. Really loved getting to see them stack on top of each other to see what it would sound like if it got really bad and at what point. My ears aren't fine-tuned enough to notice a lot of the minor differences even between microphones much of the time, but here I did eventually hear the difference and what it would sound like with someone talking over it at a normal volume, really cool and got a lot out of it!
I think this recent series (booming the ribbon mic, handholding U87, etc.) where you challenge your received audio wisdom is some of the best work you’ve done. It puts wood behind the arrow of your professed resistance to hype-driven consumerism.
Hi, I’m the maniac. Yea, I’d say preamp noise is a big deal since I regularly stack 12-16 tracks of vocal harmonies together with upwards of 20db of 1176 compression on each track. Pro tip: use a gate / expander just above the noise floor before your compressor if you want to add an ungodly amount of compression like I do.
I can't imagine a situation where I'd want to add 20db of 1776 on a vocal tbh, or use a 1776 on a vocal at all. A bass, sure, particularly heavy guitar perhaps, parallel on a snare with all the buttons mashed in maybe, but a vocal? Not really the right tool for the job in part because they're noisy and how they respond to vocals at high compression levels tends to just have them clamp and not let go, kinda like singing into a wet pillow. An LA2A lends itself much better for that job, smooth and syrupy by default, Same goes for a fairchild, and if you need more normalization, combine either with an SSL and you can get more compression than you'd ever want and still maintain something that sounds like a vocal.
@@jttech44 it’s more of a stylistic thing in the type of music I make. I like the way you hear the “wetness” of the compression in denser mixes. Besides, if it’s good enough for CLA it’s good enough for me haha.
Excellent presentation, thank you. Channel noise adds logarithmically, I've done the tests up to 48 channels. You're one of the few people on here that has ANY idea how this stuff actually works. In the old days we couldn't afford store bought gear so we built our own. That's how we learned. Bill P.
Always helpful. Based on your reviews, I bought the Motu M2 and an SM7B replacing my sensitive $30 condenser mic and Beringer USB mixer that had a wicked squealing in the 6K hz range that just killed my voice quality when I applied eq notch filtering. Now I have a much quieter mix using Reaper and some post processing plugins even with my computer fans blowing a full speed. Thanks Andrew. Love the podcast too!
Very nice description of make-up gain, and how it brings up the noise floor. For anyone curious about the basic function of a compressor, just go to 5:30 of this video.
A great video Bandrew. Merry Christmas and see you next year. I guess I'll just have to watch your re-runs to tide me through. Enjoy your well-deserved break.
It’s not that I am “sweating” over white noise, I just like a clean recording as possible, so, yes I get quiet and set a noise gate just a bit before I start hearing the noise in my headphones.
Good video, I would agree for your average person on most projects that probably doesn't matter too much but on some more professional projects depending on what you got going on it can definitely make a difference
Yeah. I’d lump a lot of those professional tech requirements in the “being a stickler or wanting 0 noise” category. Also, I don’t know about audio books outside of audible, but the requirement verification seems to be completely flawed. They measure noise floor when someone isn’t talking. This means a gate can pass the threshold, but once the narrator starts speaking again all the hiss and ground loops come back in. I noticed this very recently. For audio books and those mediums that have strict noise floor standards, I think the proper mic selection is going to be a condenser with a decent output, and a low self noise.
@@Podcastage I have never tried to record audio books but the ones i have listened to on audible sounded so bad i deleted it, a few years later I downloaded it again and same thing, terrible audio quality. What you are saying makes sense, only thing with a condenser mic is getting rid of room reflections.. I think I saw one of your videos a while back about sound treatment but do you have a more recent video on what your using currently ?? looks like you just have some acoustic foam from what i saw in a few shots of your room. I set up some make shift stuff that gets rid of most of but not all reflections but I still hear a few
I remember when your room was clean and your voice sounds thin. Ahh, good old days when im still a newbie with mics and pre amps etc. Thanks to this guys i can mix shlt
Great points. Agree that there are other noises that need to be dealt with before preamp noise. I'd add mouth smacking and buzzy guitar strings or drums to that list.
A lot of great points brought up in this interview. Love the channel! Not sure if you've seen, but SE just came out with 2 more affordable Dynacaster mics. I'd love to see your take on them
I have a rode video micro that I've been using as my primary mic for awhile now. As a hand mic it's very decent in my opinion and I'm a stickler. it's very quiet in terms of noise and is also really sensitive (-33db) when compared to vocal mics like the SM48 (-57db). I wanted to start working on an interview setup for recording myself and another person, so I purchased 2 SM48s since your video on that mic made it sound good, except when I got my hands on the mic, the noise was ungodly when plugged directly into my field recorder or my camera, and that was without any additional gain put on it, because of how not sensitive the mic is, I had to then make the noise even louder just to hear what I was saying into the mic. So I sent THOSE back.
Increasing the pre-amp on a condenser mic more exposes it’s own mic noise rather than the pre-amp noise floor. On better condenser mics recording at high sensitivity the noise is actually is lower.
Thanks for the vid. I think pre-amp noise actually does matter in real world professional scenarios where you're looking for the highest possible quality and S/N ratios. The lower the noise, the better because it unveils the full spectrum of the audio source. Simple as that. You only really appreciate this when you're in the hypersensitive mindset accompanying an important mix session. At THAT point, you develop a healthy hatred of the hiss/noise arising from cheap mics and preamps. Cheers.
I have an audiobook channel in Portuguese. And audio is the main thing on my channel besides oratory for reading. And I say I'm kind of crazy about background sound on recordings. And this video made me see that my audience will listen to my books in random places and will not pay as much attention to the background noise and more to the oratory and reading of the content. And before that, I apply a vst plugin called clarity vx da waves not much and it's good that even the loud talking on the cell phone can't be heard. So I'm going to stop this habit of thinking that the audio is not good and it's full of background noise hahaah
I thought it was preamp noise on my audio gear, but what really makes these noise are the " RF/EMI ". I have so many devices on my desk, it means many cables. I experienced so much noise due to this situation, fixed after I bought a LONG xlr-cable and put it far away from any other cables. So before thinking about preamp noise, consider the noise that come from other places. just like my case, RF/EMI really matter...
This is an awesome demonstration......BUT.......EVEN MORE IMPRESSIVE? Your Hoodie changing color with no explanation. Ha! I love this channel Bandrew! Bo
The Focusrite is definitely the least noisy compared to the Steinberg and the Apogee. Much cleaner! Overall, this was a very interesting and informative video 😉
Ha! That's just what I'm doing with my podcast :D Back when I started I just bought the cheapest pre amp possible...but now I saved up and ordered the SSL 2. It does all I need and can be considered a very low noise interface :) at least to my current situation it'll be day and night
I kind of "upgraded"' from NT1-A to SM7B because I was picking up a little bit too much sound from my nieghbour and or family while streaming And I have to say, being greeted by such a NOTICABLE noise from the SM7B is very annoying.... :( I almost conseder sending it back because of that problem .... ! I think it's real noticable problem
what about the sound of electricity. e.g. I notice there's way less ground noise if I record thru a Laptop running in batteries when compared to a desktop (which i prefer for processing)
Remember, its about signal to noise ratio. Loud sources, close dynamic microphone is good. Dynamic has 0 self noise. Signal to noise ratio is perfect until it hits the pre amp. Ambient noise aside That is the only noise you will have in the chain EXCEPT the self noise of the monitor system. Noise is sum off all self noise in system. Get your signal correct...bunch of those problems go away.
Bandrew in 2019: My unlimited budget setup would be Universal Audio 1176 and LA2A compressors, Universal Audio 610 and Neve 1073 preamps, Neve Shelford and Manley VOXBOX channel strips, Apollo X8p or Apogee Symphony interfaces, and an SM7B mic. Bandrew now: Maybe a little preamp noise isn’t a problem? What’s next? Is it okay to use speaker phone when on a zoom call in a busy airport? Love your channel, keep up the good work!
Daddy Bandrew do you have to hit me at the end of every episode? Could we get a "Positive Parenting" or "Positive Podcasting" class for Bandrew? I'll even throw in $20! /s Love the content. Great discussing on preamp noise. Have a happy holidays to you sir.
I’m currently looking for a new interface with dsp, and I tried to find the Self noise (ein) of the apollo twin x and I can’t find it anywhere! Do you think the preamps are good on the apollo?
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think you've got a issue with your test. Using dummy loads you're exposing all of the preamp noise and the conversion noise (Which is not accounted for in this video) without any additional dynamic range of what the microphones should be capturing. If you do any compression with those dummy loads you're not only boosting the mic noise, but you're also boosting conversion noise. Running 10 or more dynamic or ribbon mics without gates or expansion before conversion seems incredibly unlikely. When recording bands I tend to have 10-15 or more low output dynamic mics and easily another 12-16 ribbon mics running at any given time without any noticeable buildup of noise from preamps or conversion. If I'm recording extremely low volume sources I'll use a condenser, or a ribbon/dynamic with a gain boost (Cloudlifter) with an expander before compression, then onto conversion. I never have to worry about any level of hiss in my recordings.
Yes, digital makeup gain scales linearly, analog gain often does not, only appearing at the extremes on well designed/maintained pres/comps, which is something that a plugin can't emulate, you need the actual hardware to pull it off.
That’s why I said it’s a worst case scenario. That’s for multiple reasons. 1) All mics aren’t going to be the SM7b with gain on your interface at 100%. 2) You’re not capturing any of the room tone which would be picked up by the mic. 3) In a recording, you will use gating/expansion. 4) When mixing, everything isn’t set at the exact level you recorded at, a lot of stuff is pulled down significantly and EQed to fit amongst the mix.
Also, preamp noise is a uniform noise floor, so if you’re gentle you could use spectral denoise to remove it if it’s really an issue. Would likely be for really bad cases because it also pulls out some of the sound source as well, but it’s possible.
@@BandrewScott For the record I totally agree with the conclusion of this video. My only real observation in my TL;DR post was pointing towards DAC noise possibly adding more noise than the preamp itself. Edit: I would hesitate to call that a "Worst case scenario." Wouldn't it be more like "Hey, you're doing this wrong".....?
Yes. Preamp noise is part of the analog signal chain; increasing gain in OBS takes the analog noise floor and raises it with the rest of the signal. Anything you do farther into the signal chain than the preamp itself will also affect preamp noise in the recording.
Yes, but it's often worse. Digital gain will increase noise floor linearly, whereas analog noise isn't necessarily linear. You should always make sure your recordings are gain staged accurately for this reason.
Can I recover audio when mic has been too far away? Speaker voice is low and it capture all kind of environment sounds.. I record in chuch with two camera, and that one what was close in center mic was off, now I only have audio from other camera where mic was farther from the speaker.
There’s the new Adobe A.I. thing. I think it’s called like Adobe Podcast or something. Try that out. I heard someone’s audio with a mic multiple feet away with multiple guests with a ton of reverb and BG noise and it turned it into a VERY listenable podcast.
When you work in professional voice over studio, signal to noise ratio is EVERYTHING. U just cant lower your gain, when actor is screaming - its stupid for pro studio, for soooo many reasons. U just set your gain once and NEVER touch it again. I recording with -40 db on peaks on standart speech. On this level - u need really good equipment to solve the noise problem. And no, u cannot use compressor, cose its pointles. Good preamp will give you -130db signal to noise rario (STNR), best compressor will give you pathetic -90 or -100 at best. So you need more than 30db gain reduction on compressor to match preamp STNR. And dont forget about ADC, very good ADC will give you -115 or -120 STNR. And if you also have free-running potentiometers on the preamp... then you will never set up the same level that you had, and this is very important. But when you work like solo voice over artist at home - u dont need preamp for sure, just buy a really good sound card with DSP(only with DSP), and you good to go. When you screaming - just lower your gain.
Analog compression before your preamp will fix your "actors with bad etiquette" problem. CL1B is a good choice, very very transparent, and can buy you another 10db before clip with very low noise. Also, Hollywood records loud parts, like yelling or screaming, separately. It's often dubbed, or, cut in as a separate scene, which avoids this problem altogether. Your "you can't just lower the gain for soooo many reasons" is ridiculous, of course you can, and you absolutely should. If you're doing broadcast stuff, mic etiquette is your actual issue, not your gear. Train your actors to back off the mic if they need to get loud, and train them how to sound loud without being loud, neither are hard techniques.
@@jttech44 1."Analog compression before your preamp" Bhahaha, wtf this even means? U can't compress your signal before preamp, cose you need preamp to record condenser mic, you need phantom power first. Wtf you even talking about? Compressors always going AFTER preamp. And even best of the best compressors - always have shitty signal to noise ratio, its much much worse than preamp or ADC STNR. Why do ever need to compress your signal exactly for better STNR now days? Its stupid, we not living in 80-s, when compressor really helped with STNR, cose ADCs was complete shit. And with good mic, good preamp and good ADC, in 2022 - ADC is always the weakest link in STNR comparison. Analogue compressors now days only need for tracking and color, not for better signal to noise ratio... they only make it worse. 2. "Your "you can't just lower the gain for soooo many reasons" is ridiculous, of course you can, and you absolutely should." No U CAN NOT. If you say so - u never worked in professional voice over studio. Reasons for that - is plenty. I can even think about that as a question. I can name you 3 main reasons -1.Time, 2.Post production, 3.U dont know what you voicing. U can scream, and you can whipser in 2 same seconds. 3."Actors with bad etiquette""Train your actors to back off the mic if they need to get loud" Its not bad etiquette, wtf are talking about? Actors have HUGE volume range. And they need to scream, they have to. It does not even matter - far away or onto the side of mic, they gonna "clip" you, no matter what you do. And specially little girls gonna clip your ass everyday. Do you even worked with one? Also - u cant go to much far away from mic, cose when you doing voice overs as a proffesional voice over artist, you 80% of your time is sitting on a chair, not standing. Try to work 12 hours in a day standing and performing in game dev for example, you will be dead in 3 hours, and actors have 3-6 studios in a DAY. Im know what im talking about cose i working as sound engineer at 5 studios at the same time and as voice actor on 20+
Hey bandrew, I need your expert opinion on this. I got a very cheap audio interface from china, and there's a very slight tone coming from it like a sine wave. It doesn't get louder when I increase mic gain, it's constantly there. What do you think could be the issue?
@@mirzaangon If it is ground hum, you could try making sure that your whole setup is plugged into one outlet to eliminate a ground loop. If that doesn't work, then if it's not too much of a pain you could try plugging your setup into different circuits in your house - there might be something causing AC line noise somewhere. Try turning other stuff off like lights, or anything with a motor or dimmer. There's a lot to find by just searching google too - lots of people have this problem, so you aren't alone. Good luck!!
Cheap interfaces are usually clones of existing interfaces but they tend to remove components to save cost. What you're hearing is an oscillation likely caused by that process combined with something being a little out of spec. Usually they get away with removing filtering from the circuits which can make them unstable, and to further the problem, you might plug it into a different computer and have different oscillation, or no oscillation at all. If you have a powered USB hub, that's worth a try.
It's Dynamic and it means the microphone has a magnet in it and the movement of the diaphragm within the magnetic field generated by that magnet will generate the output signal for the mic. Also, the overwhelming majority of dynamic microphones do not require external power to function.
Honestly, nowadays, most interfaces worth buying are incredibly low noise. If you're running into noise, you're probably doing something real skanky and should use a gate to hide it.
I did not watch this video. Just want to say, yes! It matters. Noise, self noise, ambient noise all bad. Kills sound stage and 3D wide image. Noise of ANY kind in recording = bad. Espically with larger track counts. KSM44a. 4db of self noise! You can hear a fly walking and not the shhhhhh sound.
I share your opinion. You need to have an idea about where you are posting and who is watching and the type device it's being watched on. It's the same with video, if most people are watching on a cellphone you don't need an expensive camera. I've seen people suggest an $8k camera as an entry point!!! 🫤
DO NOT contact anyone on Telegram that is claiming to be me. I am not giving anything away. They are scammers trying to steal your money and data.
huh i really thought you were giving away 5000 sm7bs. i am in utter shock😫😫😨😨😨😨
Interesting. I will not 😊.
Technical note here. Adding the noise of an XLR dummy just adds EIN preamp noise and isn't the same as adding a second SM7B because there would also be acoustic noise from your room environment added by the second mic. Bandrew's test was specifically about preamp noise so his testing is valid. Just note that in the real world you'd also have acoustic environmental noise added to the noise level of the room as well as potential bleed and phasing between mics.
Adding a second mic would add 3dB to the noise floor, adding two would add 4.8dB and adding three would add 6dB. This is added to your noise floor level. Every time you double the number of microphones, it increases another 3dB.
Thanks for the shout out Bandrew.
Late to the party:, yet still:
If Nyquist noise in a 20 kHz bandwidth from the 150 ohm output impedance of the SM7b is the limiting factor, then the ultimate (S+N)/N ratio we can obtail with 1.12mV from the mic due to audio is 74 dB:
Noise voltage = sqrt (20'000) * sqrt(150) * 0.13 * 10E-09 ~ 225 nV.
(S+N)/N ~ 20 * log10(1.12E-03 / 225E-09) ~ 73.9 dB.
However, according to the SM7b datasheet, the magnetic shielding of the mic is not all powerful, and residual mains hum pickup may be the actual S/N ratio limiter, as opposed to Nyquist noise.
That’s not hiss, that’s soothing white noise to help relax your listeners along with the dulcet tones of your voice. How considerate ❤
Yes NJ! Soothing! 😄💛
I don't like white noise though, it's annoying for me
Sooth thy everyone!
😂
I swear to God I have learned more about mics/interfaces/recording from watching your videos for like 3 months than I have in like 20+years as a musician and home recording enthusiast. Thanks for the quality content my dude.
I showed this channel to my wife, and she thought it was super boring. She isn’t into audio. On the other hand, you are my absolute favorite TH-camr. From the bottom of my heart, thank you so much for all you do and have helped me navigate audio concepts, purchasing decisions, fact vs fiction and rationale. You truly deserve every subscriber you have.
This is the best, most practical explanation of pre-amp noise I've seen. Really loved getting to see them stack on top of each other to see what it would sound like if it got really bad and at what point. My ears aren't fine-tuned enough to notice a lot of the minor differences even between microphones much of the time, but here I did eventually hear the difference and what it would sound like with someone talking over it at a normal volume, really cool and got a lot out of it!
I think this recent series (booming the ribbon mic, handholding U87, etc.) where you challenge your received audio wisdom is some of the best work you’ve done. It puts wood behind the arrow of your professed resistance to hype-driven consumerism.
Hi, I’m the maniac. Yea, I’d say preamp noise is a big deal since I regularly stack 12-16 tracks of vocal harmonies together with upwards of 20db of 1176 compression on each track.
Pro tip: use a gate / expander just above the noise floor before your compressor if you want to add an ungodly amount of compression like I do.
I can't imagine a situation where I'd want to add 20db of 1776 on a vocal tbh, or use a 1776 on a vocal at all. A bass, sure, particularly heavy guitar perhaps, parallel on a snare with all the buttons mashed in maybe, but a vocal? Not really the right tool for the job in part because they're noisy and how they respond to vocals at high compression levels tends to just have them clamp and not let go, kinda like singing into a wet pillow. An LA2A lends itself much better for that job, smooth and syrupy by default, Same goes for a fairchild, and if you need more normalization, combine either with an SSL and you can get more compression than you'd ever want and still maintain something that sounds like a vocal.
@@jttech44 it’s more of a stylistic thing in the type of music I make. I like the way you hear the “wetness” of the compression in denser mixes. Besides, if it’s good enough for CLA it’s good enough for me haha.
@@jttech44 it's beyond standard for certain types of music...
Danke and Merry Christmas dear Bandrew! Thank you so much for another exciting year about audio gear and so much more!
This video is absolutely a blast and happy holidays to you. You're amazing!
Excellent presentation, thank you.
Channel noise adds logarithmically, I've done the tests up to 48 channels.
You're one of the few people on here that has ANY idea how this stuff actually works.
In the old days we couldn't afford store bought gear so we built our own.
That's how we learned.
Bill P.
Always helpful. Based on your reviews, I bought the Motu M2 and an SM7B replacing my sensitive $30 condenser mic and Beringer USB mixer that had a wicked squealing in the 6K hz range that just killed my voice quality when I applied eq notch filtering.
Now I have a much quieter mix using Reaper and some post processing plugins even with my computer fans blowing a full speed. Thanks Andrew. Love the podcast too!
Very nice description of make-up gain, and how it brings up the noise floor. For anyone curious about the basic function of a compressor, just go to 5:30 of this video.
A great video Bandrew. Merry Christmas and see you next year. I guess I'll just have to watch your re-runs to tide me through. Enjoy your well-deserved break.
It’s not that I am “sweating” over white noise, I just like a clean recording as possible, so, yes I get quiet and set a noise gate just a bit before I start hearing the noise in my headphones.
Good video, I would agree for your average person on most projects that probably doesn't matter too much but on some more professional projects depending on what you got going on it can definitely make a difference
Yeah. I’d lump a lot of those professional tech requirements in the “being a stickler or wanting 0 noise” category. Also, I don’t know about audio books outside of audible, but the requirement verification seems to be completely flawed. They measure noise floor when someone isn’t talking. This means a gate can pass the threshold, but once the narrator starts speaking again all the hiss and ground loops come back in. I noticed this very recently. For audio books and those mediums that have strict noise floor standards, I think the proper mic selection is going to be a condenser with a decent output, and a low self noise.
@@Podcastage I have never tried to record audio books but the ones i have listened to on audible sounded so bad i deleted it, a few years later I downloaded it again and same thing, terrible audio quality. What you are saying makes sense, only thing with a condenser mic is getting rid of room reflections.. I think I saw one of your videos a while back about sound treatment but do you have a more recent video on what your using currently ?? looks like you just have some acoustic foam from what i saw in a few shots of your room. I set up some make shift stuff that gets rid of most of but not all reflections but I still hear a few
Julian Kraus's preamp noise video is also really good.
I remember when your room was clean and your voice sounds thin. Ahh, good old days when im still a newbie with mics and pre amps etc. Thanks to this guys i can mix shlt
Great points. Agree that there are other noises that need to be dealt with before preamp noise. I'd add mouth smacking and buzzy guitar strings or drums to that list.
Dude your going to need a bigger room!!!
Fantastic content 👏
A lot of great points brought up in this interview. Love the channel!
Not sure if you've seen, but SE just came out with 2 more affordable Dynacaster mics. I'd love to see your take on them
Your Summary Is Da Best
I have a rode video micro that I've been using as my primary mic for awhile now. As a hand mic it's very decent in my opinion and I'm a stickler. it's very quiet in terms of noise and is also really sensitive (-33db) when compared to vocal mics like the SM48 (-57db). I wanted to start working on an interview setup for recording myself and another person, so I purchased 2 SM48s since your video on that mic made it sound good, except when I got my hands on the mic, the noise was ungodly when plugged directly into my field recorder or my camera, and that was without any additional gain put on it, because of how not sensitive the mic is, I had to then make the noise even louder just to hear what I was saying into the mic. So I sent THOSE back.
Great video, very helpful. It will affect my post holiday purchases.
Increasing the pre-amp on a condenser mic more exposes it’s own mic noise rather than the pre-amp noise floor. On better condenser mics recording at high sensitivity the noise is actually is lower.
Thanks for the vid. I think pre-amp noise actually does matter in real world professional scenarios where you're looking for the highest possible quality and S/N ratios. The lower the noise, the better because it unveils the full spectrum of the audio source. Simple as that. You only really appreciate this when you're in the hypersensitive mindset accompanying an important mix session. At THAT point, you develop a healthy hatred of the hiss/noise arising from cheap mics and preamps. Cheers.
16 dumby tracks killed the noise floor ! Hissy You are a good man . FAN
I have an audiobook channel in Portuguese. And audio is the main thing on my channel besides oratory for reading. And I say I'm kind of crazy about background sound on recordings. And this video made me see that my audience will listen to my books in random places and will not pay as much attention to the background noise and more to the oratory and reading of the content. And before that, I apply a vst plugin called clarity vx da waves not much and it's good that even the loud talking on the cell phone can't be heard. So I'm going to stop this habit of thinking that the audio is not good and it's full of background noise hahaah
Have awesome holidays!!! 🎉
I thought it was preamp noise on my audio gear,
but what really makes these noise are the " RF/EMI ".
I have so many devices on my desk, it means many cables.
I experienced so much noise due to this situation, fixed after I bought a LONG xlr-cable and put it far away from any other cables.
So before thinking about preamp noise, consider the noise that come from other places.
just like my case, RF/EMI really matter...
and actually my last shorter cable is mogami...
even with good cables we can still meet these issues. (bad cables should be even worse)
The UR22C killed it with the Shure compared to the FocusRite. It was pretty much instant.
Very interesting. Thanks for the comment.
I am a thankful earthling! This hiss matters! 💛🤗
Good video ------ I would also suggest Julian Kraus's videos on this subject
This is an awesome demonstration......BUT.......EVEN MORE IMPRESSIVE? Your Hoodie changing color with no explanation. Ha! I love this channel Bandrew!
Bo
You da OG of audio!
The Focusrite is definitely the least noisy compared to the Steinberg and the Apogee. Much cleaner! Overall, this was a very interesting and informative video 😉
Thank you
Best example of noise. In handy's loudspeaker it's heareble from 6 tracks. 😊
Yeah it gets very noticeable.
Thanks for this vid. Very informative. SM7B still sounding the best out of em all.
Inside REAPER you can remove this white noise with a filter, it might make some frequencies muddy but with an EQ i think it can be fixed !
Ha! That's just what I'm doing with my podcast :D Back when I started I just bought the cheapest pre amp possible...but now I saved up and ordered the SSL 2. It does all I need and can be considered a very low noise interface :) at least to my current situation it'll be day and night
Damn I love all of your videos!
Is it weird that I find just a little noise kind of comforting? It's like a security blanket for my ears.
Mix Pre3-II is my buddy.
You have right! has usual thank for this video
Would be cool if you reviews the wa 8000
It was a very interesting video thanks a lot for your great content!
I kind of "upgraded"' from NT1-A to SM7B because I was picking up a little bit too much sound from my nieghbour and or family while streaming
And I have to say, being greeted by such a NOTICABLE noise from the SM7B is very annoying.... :(
I almost conseder sending it back because of that problem .... !
I think it's real noticable problem
what about the sound of electricity. e.g. I notice there's way less ground noise if I record thru a Laptop running in batteries when compared to a desktop (which i prefer for processing)
Remember, its about signal to noise ratio. Loud sources, close dynamic microphone is good. Dynamic has 0 self noise. Signal to noise ratio is perfect until it hits the pre amp. Ambient noise aside That is the only noise you will have in the chain EXCEPT the self noise of the monitor system. Noise is sum off all self noise in system. Get your signal correct...bunch of those problems go away.
Bandrew in 2019: My unlimited budget setup would be Universal Audio 1176 and LA2A compressors, Universal Audio 610 and Neve 1073 preamps, Neve Shelford and Manley VOXBOX channel strips, Apollo X8p or Apogee Symphony interfaces, and an SM7B mic.
Bandrew now: Maybe a little preamp noise isn’t a problem?
What’s next? Is it okay to use speaker phone when on a zoom call in a busy airport?
Love your channel, keep up the good work!
Daddy Bandrew do you have to hit me at the end of every episode?
Could we get a "Positive Parenting" or "Positive Podcasting" class for Bandrew? I'll even throw in $20!
/s
Love the content. Great discussing on preamp noise. Have a happy holidays to you sir.
A uniform noise floor is important to me personally.
Thanks!
Holy smokes. Thank you so much for the support. It really helps the channel out a lot. I really appreciate you very much.
@@Podcastage Love your videos, the have been an enormous help to me.
I miss the sound effect for when you say "Hated it, give it a big ole thumbs down." Always makes me laugh.
Any pre-amp recommendation for the Blue Sona?
I’m currently looking for a new interface with dsp, and I tried to find the Self noise (ein) of the apollo twin x and I can’t find it anywhere! Do you think the preamps are good on the apollo?
They invented plugins to remove that white noise or pink sound
Compression is actually reducing dynamic range, hence the word “compression”.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think you've got a issue with your test. Using dummy loads you're exposing all of the preamp noise and the conversion noise (Which is not accounted for in this video) without any additional dynamic range of what the microphones should be capturing. If you do any compression with those dummy loads you're not only boosting the mic noise, but you're also boosting conversion noise. Running 10 or more dynamic or ribbon mics without gates or expansion before conversion seems incredibly unlikely.
When recording bands I tend to have 10-15 or more low output dynamic mics and easily another 12-16 ribbon mics running at any given time without any noticeable buildup of noise from preamps or conversion. If I'm recording extremely low volume sources I'll use a condenser, or a ribbon/dynamic with a gain boost (Cloudlifter) with an expander before compression, then onto conversion. I never have to worry about any level of hiss in my recordings.
Yes, digital makeup gain scales linearly, analog gain often does not, only appearing at the extremes on well designed/maintained pres/comps, which is something that a plugin can't emulate, you need the actual hardware to pull it off.
That’s why I said it’s a worst case scenario. That’s for multiple reasons. 1) All mics aren’t going to be the SM7b with gain on your interface at 100%. 2) You’re not capturing any of the room tone which would be picked up by the mic. 3) In a recording, you will use gating/expansion. 4) When mixing, everything isn’t set at the exact level you recorded at, a lot of stuff is pulled down significantly and EQed to fit amongst the mix.
Also, preamp noise is a uniform noise floor, so if you’re gentle you could use spectral denoise to remove it if it’s really an issue. Would likely be for really bad cases because it also pulls out some of the sound source as well, but it’s possible.
@@BandrewScott For the record I totally agree with the conclusion of this video. My only real observation in my TL;DR post was pointing towards DAC noise possibly adding more noise than the preamp itself.
Edit: I would hesitate to call that a "Worst case scenario." Wouldn't it be more like "Hey, you're doing this wrong".....?
THAT THUMBNAIL GAME.
Izotope spectral analyzer coming in clutch for that background of the noise floor.
is the changing of the hoodie scripted?
Great video! Would the same concept applies to digital gain? Like in OBS?
Yes. Preamp noise is part of the analog signal chain; increasing gain in OBS takes the analog noise floor and raises it with the rest of the signal. Anything you do farther into the signal chain than the preamp itself will also affect preamp noise in the recording.
Yes, but it's often worse. Digital gain will increase noise floor linearly, whereas analog noise isn't necessarily linear. You should always make sure your recordings are gain staged accurately for this reason.
Tell Me more please 🙂
2022 was the year of the "woah woah boop"
Julian Krause has just published something about preamp noise too, as part of a longer video: th-cam.com/video/O_L86wNbzi0/w-d-xo.html
Excellent video Bandrew! I wish you & your family a very Happy Holiday Season & the Happiest of New Years! 👍👍🌲🌲🎤🎤
Can I recover audio when mic has been too far away? Speaker voice is low and it capture all kind of environment sounds.. I record in chuch with two camera, and that one what was close in center mic was off, now I only have audio from other camera where mic was farther from the speaker.
Maybe with plugins such as isotope or others...do a Google search...
There’s the new Adobe A.I. thing. I think it’s called like Adobe Podcast or something. Try that out. I heard someone’s audio with a mic multiple feet away with multiple guests with a ton of reverb and BG noise and it turned it into a VERY listenable podcast.
When you work in professional voice over studio, signal to noise ratio is EVERYTHING. U just cant lower your gain, when actor is screaming - its stupid for pro studio, for soooo many reasons. U just set your gain once and NEVER touch it again. I recording with -40 db on peaks on standart speech. On this level - u need really good equipment to solve the noise problem. And no, u cannot use compressor, cose its pointles. Good preamp will give you -130db signal to noise rario (STNR), best compressor will give you pathetic -90 or -100 at best. So you need more than 30db gain reduction on compressor to match preamp STNR. And dont forget about ADC, very good ADC will give you -115 or -120 STNR.
And if you also have free-running potentiometers on the preamp... then you will never set up the same level that you had, and this is very important.
But when you work like solo voice over artist at home - u dont need preamp for sure, just buy a really good sound card with DSP(only with DSP), and you good to go. When you screaming - just lower your gain.
Analog compression before your preamp will fix your "actors with bad etiquette" problem. CL1B is a good choice, very very transparent, and can buy you another 10db before clip with very low noise.
Also, Hollywood records loud parts, like yelling or screaming, separately. It's often dubbed, or, cut in as a separate scene, which avoids this problem altogether. Your "you can't just lower the gain for soooo many reasons" is ridiculous, of course you can, and you absolutely should.
If you're doing broadcast stuff, mic etiquette is your actual issue, not your gear. Train your actors to back off the mic if they need to get loud, and train them how to sound loud without being loud, neither are hard techniques.
@@jttech44 1."Analog compression before your preamp"
Bhahaha, wtf this even means? U can't compress your signal before preamp, cose you need preamp to record condenser mic, you need phantom power first. Wtf you even talking about? Compressors always going AFTER preamp. And even best of the best compressors - always have shitty signal to noise ratio, its much much worse than preamp or ADC STNR. Why do ever need to compress your signal exactly for better STNR now days? Its stupid, we not living in 80-s, when compressor really helped with STNR, cose ADCs was complete shit. And with good mic, good preamp and good ADC, in 2022 - ADC is always the weakest link in STNR comparison. Analogue compressors now days only need for tracking and color, not for better signal to noise ratio... they only make it worse.
2. "Your "you can't just lower the gain for soooo many reasons" is ridiculous, of course you can, and you absolutely should."
No U CAN NOT. If you say so - u never worked in professional voice over studio. Reasons for that - is plenty. I can even think about that as a question. I can name you 3 main reasons -1.Time, 2.Post production, 3.U dont know what you voicing. U can scream, and you can whipser in 2 same seconds.
3."Actors with bad etiquette""Train your actors to back off the mic if they need to get loud"
Its not bad etiquette, wtf are talking about? Actors have HUGE volume range. And they need to scream, they have to. It does not even matter - far away or onto the side of mic, they gonna "clip" you, no matter what you do. And specially little girls gonna clip your ass everyday. Do you even worked with one? Also - u cant go to much far away from mic, cose when you doing voice overs as a proffesional voice over artist, you 80% of your time is sitting on a chair, not standing. Try to work 12 hours in a day standing and performing in game dev for example, you will be dead in 3 hours, and actors have 3-6 studios in a DAY. Im know what im talking about cose i working as sound engineer at 5 studios at the same time and as voice actor on 20+
Please do a review of Sennheiser ew g4 top level wireless mic, thanks :)
In Part 2 I literally heard nothing. Zero noise, and I'm using my headphones :)
Hey bandrew, I need your expert opinion on this. I got a very cheap audio interface from china, and there's a very slight tone coming from it like a sine wave. It doesn't get louder when I increase mic gain, it's constantly there. What do you think could be the issue?
Sounds like it could maybe be some weird ground hum or something!
@@monkeyplusplus you think I could fix it somehow?
@@mirzaangon If it is ground hum, you could try making sure that your whole setup is plugged into one outlet to eliminate a ground loop. If that doesn't work, then if it's not too much of a pain you could try plugging your setup into different circuits in your house - there might be something causing AC line noise somewhere. Try turning other stuff off like lights, or anything with a motor or dimmer. There's a lot to find by just searching google too - lots of people have this problem, so you aren't alone. Good luck!!
@@monkeyplusplus the problem is I'm using a laptop and it's still there 😂
Cheap interfaces are usually clones of existing interfaces but they tend to remove components to save cost. What you're hearing is an oscillation likely caused by that process combined with something being a little out of spec.
Usually they get away with removing filtering from the circuits which can make them unstable, and to further the problem, you might plug it into a different computer and have different oscillation, or no oscillation at all. If you have a powered USB hub, that's worth a try.
What does Die Namic mean?
It's Dynamic and it means the microphone has a magnet in it and the movement of the diaphragm within the magnetic field generated by that magnet will generate the output signal for the mic. Also, the overwhelming majority of dynamic microphones do not require external power to function.
@@Podcastage Thanks for the explanation, but I knew all that; it was a joke. About your rather unusual pronunciation of the word. Sorry.
9 outta 10 times a content creator complains about an outside noise in their vid i cant hear it....mind you, im not listening to ASMR content either
On ipad (with a normal distance) there are a little difference… buuuut Not at all.
I am a maniac
Honestly, nowadays, most interfaces worth buying are incredibly low noise. If you're running into noise, you're probably doing something real skanky and should use a gate to hide it.
We love you ♥️ and I like it when you slap me ♥️….😂
I did not watch this video. Just want to say, yes! It matters. Noise, self noise, ambient noise all bad. Kills sound stage and 3D wide image. Noise of ANY kind in recording = bad. Espically with larger track counts. KSM44a. 4db of self noise! You can hear a fly walking and not the shhhhhh sound.
first.
A good 2023!
If you want dig deeper into the preamp hole, then I recommend checking out @JulianKrause channel
I share your opinion. You need to have an idea about where you are posting and who is watching and the type device it's being watched on.
It's the same with video, if most people are watching on a cellphone you don't need an expensive camera. I've seen people suggest an $8k camera as an entry point!!! 🫤