That exact issue is how I learned that the first step of any DCC install is to test the locomotive on DC and fix any mechanical issues. That has saved me a lot of time over the years.
I’ve converted 2 Bachmann N scale locos. I had to mill the frame to get enough room for the decoder. I also ground away the frame near the motor leads, to make sure there was no chance of contact. Instead of soldering a wire to the track pickup on the trucks, I took the power from the frame. I drilled a small hole in the left and right frame, pushed in the power wires, and filled in with solder. With Bachmann, be prepared to take some off of the frame. Just strip the train and bolt together just the frame to spare getting grinding everywhere you don’t want.
I just did my first N scale DCC/Sound installation in diesels in at least five years (I did a steam installation earlier this year, that was fine). On the diesels the decoder was supposed to be "plug and play," but it wasn't. I found that I had to remove some of the frame where it sandwiched the decoder, otherwise the frames touched the decoder in a way that caused a short. Thankfully it didn't damage the decoders. No they sound and run fine.
Jimmy to get power from the 2 frames what I have done is find 2 small brass screws drill a small hole in each frame install the brass screws. Cut the heads off the screws and you can now attach the power wires to the brass part of the screws and get a good connection. I have done this twice and it works great.
Thanks Jimmy. Loved the video. I have 4 old dc locos like yours and I was going to use them for show on the layout. After watching your video I think I will at least convert one to dcc. Maybe more.
This is kind of fun to come back and watch after I've installed my first decoder, or at least my first decoder that wasn't just a plug-in. I used a Graham Farish Class 04 shunter and used the same decoder. This loco doesn't have lighting, and I'm not going to work on adding those now, so I just cut those wires off. It was tedious, but not bad. I'm sad that I enjoy switcher engines though...so little room...Thanks for this video!
Woohoo! Thank you so much for this! Now I'm Uber excited to get started on my layout! I have a ton of non DCC ready N scale locomotives. You're the best! Thank you for all you do! Today's coffee is Pete's, Major Dickson's Blend (dark roast). Black, no sugar. Have a wonderful day! Can't wait for the next video!
When tackling something new and different I found it best to take a photo at the beginning. It makes a good reference for reassemble. A photo also anytime I’m encountering a challenging part.
Yeah, what you said. I think this in a job for an experienced installer. Trials and tribulations but good for you to have parts on hand to trouble shoot and replace and repair. I would get it apart and 10 weeks later one part would arrive, and then another and then, where did I put that first one, and so on.
Hi Jimmy, Very entertaining video as always. I'm so sorry to hear of the misfortune you've encountered with this project. Best of luck with the repairs.
I was trying to watch this video in the morning, but every time I got to hit play someone was calling. I know I'm bad I should not watch it on the phone. Anyway personally myself I have never added a decoder into N scale train, so this was really an eye opener. When I finally watched the video, I looked at it at least 3 more time. I found it really interesting. The only comment I have is why didn't you test the train before putting on the shell, I guess I don't trust my self enough to do what you did. But what you did found the problem. When you finally get the gearing in I'd like to see how you do that. As Always another educational video. Thanks Jimmy!!!
Great video Jimmy. I am about to convert a 47 year old Con Cor PA-1 Locomotive using the Digitrax DZ126 decoder as well. This old locomotive was my most reliable loco in the 70's and has been in storage for some 40 years. After cleaning it up, it still runs extremely well on DC. The connections from track to motor are very similar to your loco so this video was very helpful for my project.
I cannot tell you how many non-DCC locomotives (N-Scale) I have turned into DCC, and like you said things are tight. At least when you first fired up to loco as DCC you did not let the magic smoke out. Nice tutorial Jimmy 👍👍👍👍👍
Great video! I only deal in HO, and frankly, the idea of putting a DCC decoder in an older locomotive is a bit daunting and not something I would do, so props to you for getting it done! A couple of takeaways: Test the locomotive in DC before doing your install! :) Never rely on chassis conductivity when dealing with DCC. DCC requires a continuous and reliable signal from the command station to work properly. Relying on a maybe functional mechanical connection is not a good practice, as you found out. We can't control how the wheels interact with the chassis, but from that wire to the decoder is definitely in our control. Do it right once, not twice as they say. Excellent use of Kapton tape. I tape up as much of a chassis as I can around the motor and truck pick up areas. Never now when something might shift just a bit...
This is a really good video Jimmy. You have answered some major questions I have had with a similar wireless motor. I have had the decoder sitting around waiting for inspiration for about two years. This has been my inspiration. Thank you.
Jimmy, I'm impressed. I have done just a few decoder installations on HO scale Athearn "blue box" locomotives, and based on that experience, I would NEVER have the courage to tackle an N scale project. Although by now you have figured this out, the FIRST step in any conversion project is to put the locomotive on a DC test track and run it forward and backward. I suspect that would have allowed you to diagnose and fix (or decide not to fix) the issue before going through the pain of installing the decoder. For people who don't have, and don't want to spend $80 on a DC power pack, an Arduino + motor shield is easily programmed to supply straight DC power - you just need a decent rheostat.
This video is fantastic timing for me as I've just started to convert the same loco (Spectrum F7A) with the same decoder. I knew it was going to be tough. Sorry you had to go through the pain first..
I have a few older locos that I would love to eventually make DCC, but since I'm sticking to DC at this time I will continue to run them the way they are. I'm also on a tight budget and to convert all my engines and get the layout converted, it would probably be better to not convert. My wife and the bills would not be happy. Great video though because now I have more knowledge than before. Thanks for sharing
Another great video. You always entertain and inform us with a variety of topics. Looking forward to Part 2! PS: This is why I'm and ACH O'ER! Things are a little easier for these old eyes!
One of the problems is that they didn't use the aged delrum plastic (I know I'm spelling that word wrong but) on any of the gears on these early models
Great video, I know what you mean ,did one than went to kato brand the drop in dcc or dcc sound is so easy, looking at installing dcc sound in a atlas n scale dcc ready S2 and want to put in sound ,do you know of site for install instruction info that would help greatly ,keep up the great work
Hello Great video! have a question about JMRI and Digitrax decoders what can be done if Digitrax decoder is not listed in JMRI roster can I still program the decoder with JMRI?
Did the Ebay ad say that the loco ran backwards and forwards as expected? Even on DC that wouldn't be the case with faulty gear wheels. I'd report the seller.
I really have a feeling that it is shaking the "rust" out combined with faulty gears. It's nothing I can't fix and luckily Bachmann still sells the parts.
My experience with the cracked gears is that the loco still runs, just rough, clicking and popping with the crack. Most noticeable at slow speeds, and running checks for old locos, if any, rarely are that involved.
Careful Jimmy. That rebuilding locomotives is SMT Harrison gig. He'll send the French Canadian mob after ya.hahaha🤣 it N Scale. Ya get a pass this time🚂🇨🇦🇺🇲🚃🚃🚃🚃🙋
Issues like this taugjt me a simple lesson: It's not worth it. The cost of a new engine with decoder already installed vs the cost and hassle of upgrading considering decoders sometimes do not survive the installation is just not feasable anymore. The only reason to buy antique locomotives is that they are no longer manufactured and I want it so badly.
Hoo boy! You probably should have done a little research first. Bachmann locos with the worm on the truck tower are among the most difficult to convert. There is very little space available as the worm takes up considerably more space than in locos where the worm is in the frame, and isolating the motor is more difficult. Additionally that funny spring behind the wheels providing the contact to the frame is a very high drag pickup method, which affects slow speed running. That dates back to Bachmann designs from the '70s. And then there is the dreaded splitting axle gears. When those F units first came out, I bought a rake of four. Six out of the sixteen gears were cracked - and that's when they were new. The one loco like these That I've converted, I drilled and tapped holes in the frame halves for screws for the decoder wires. Another trick is to just drill holes and use pieces of toothpick to secure the wires in the holes. You'd be much better served by trying to convert an Atlas or Kato locomotive with a split frame and low friction trucks. Most any of their pre-DCC ready locos from about '92 on. And if you wanted to cheat, most of the hood units can be converted using the TCS CN or CN-GP decoder, which replaces the light boards.
@@DIYDigitalRailroad I didn't mention life like as there are different families. There's the plastic deck ones representative of their old 'toy-train' locos (though there were some more respectable ones). The biggest issue with these is that they had (quite fragile) wires from the trucks to the motors. Easy to isolate, painful to solder. Then there are the split frame ones, which are similar to Atlas/Kato to convert.
@@robertmyers5269 this is one of the older ones. It has the wires you mentioned. I’m going to remove the back weight so that there’s room for the decoder then use tungsten putty to add weight back.
I'm curious if you will let the seller know he sold you a loco with cracked gears? Was it listed "as is" I feel like that's a crucial point in your video following recommending eBay as a reputable place to buy used. Thanks!
Hi im 14y from finland, so i dont have a lot of options to choose a train brand. I know that here we have märklin, trix and piko. And i dont have a lot of maney so what is the best digital set and i am building my railway under my bed so 200cm c 130cm. And if i want to buy more tracks, what is the best lauout and not boring way to build a railway. Should i buy a base example wood or styrofoam board to build and i want to buy some buildings and some trees and little hill, can you please help me. I dont yet have a starter set.❤
Stay away from styrofoam as a base. It just is not strong enough to take a lot of moving around. As a base board use wood. MDF (Medium Density Fibreboard) is, if I remember pretty common in Europe, I am not sure about Finland. Measure your space. Personally I would go for a board cut to roughly 190cm by 120cm. (I am converting this from 4 feet by 6 foot 6 inches). In the US most wood yards will cut your wood to size. Brands. Marklin has a good reputation and their equipment is first rate. The disadvantage of Marklin is they use their own control systems and track. It is not compatible with other brands. Trix I remember has a pretty good reputation. Piko I have not really seen. Get a set to start, it will have a loop of track, the wiring to connect with your power supply and a transformer to connect with a wall outlet. In addition of a locomotive and two or more cars. Get some additional track and a couple of switches as time and money allows. Heljan makes really good quality structure models for both HO and N gauge. At age 9 my mother bought me for Christmas a train set and a 2 foot by 4 foot plywood board to set it up on. The set was by Lima used as models a German diesel and 3 German passenger cars all painted for the New Haven Railroad (US company)! Out of that start I eventually built more.
Awright do we need to have a little talk? Or are you going to get that Excavator OUT of that "Gondola" car! (I saw this a while back in another podcast) You know as well as I do that model railroaders don't let modelrailroaders put those in a gondola. I know you have a flatbed car somewhere and don't forget the TIE DOWNS for heaven sake. I think fishing line might work beautifully to model that detail.
That exact issue is how I learned that the first step of any DCC install is to test the locomotive on DC and fix any mechanical issues. That has saved me a lot of time over the years.
Wow, I can’t wait to try this myself. Thanks for sharing Jimmy!
I’ve converted 2 Bachmann N scale locos. I had to mill the frame to get enough room for the decoder. I also ground away the frame near the motor leads, to make sure there was no chance of contact. Instead of soldering a wire to the track pickup on the trucks, I took the power from the frame. I drilled a small hole in the left and right frame, pushed in the power wires, and filled in with solder.
With Bachmann, be prepared to take some off of the frame. Just strip the train and bolt together just the frame to spare getting grinding everywhere you don’t want.
Very good video Jimmy. Showing troubleshooting how's are very useful.
I just did my first N scale DCC/Sound installation in diesels in at least five years (I did a steam installation earlier this year, that was fine). On the diesels the decoder was supposed to be "plug and play," but it wasn't. I found that I had to remove some of the frame where it sandwiched the decoder, otherwise the frames touched the decoder in a way that caused a short. Thankfully it didn't damage the decoders. No they sound and run fine.
Jimmy to get power from the 2 frames what I have done is find 2 small brass screws drill a small hole in each frame install the brass screws. Cut the heads off the screws and you can now attach the power wires to the brass part of the screws and get a good connection. I have done this twice and it works great.
I've heard of this before on another channel. Where did you place the screws in the chassis ?
Thanks Jimmy. Loved the video. I have 4 old dc locos like yours and I was going to use them for show on the layout. After watching your video I think I will at least convert one to dcc. Maybe more.
This is kind of fun to come back and watch after I've installed my first decoder, or at least my first decoder that wasn't just a plug-in. I used a Graham Farish Class 04 shunter and used the same decoder. This loco doesn't have lighting, and I'm not going to work on adding those now, so I just cut those wires off. It was tedious, but not bad. I'm sad that I enjoy switcher engines though...so little room...Thanks for this video!
Woohoo! Thank you so much for this! Now I'm Uber excited to get started on my layout! I have a ton of non DCC ready N scale locomotives. You're the best! Thank you for all you do! Today's coffee is Pete's, Major Dickson's Blend (dark roast). Black, no sugar. Have a wonderful day! Can't wait for the next video!
When tackling something new and different I found it best to take a photo at the beginning. It makes a good reference for reassemble. A photo also anytime I’m encountering a challenging part.
Please, please when soldering or cutting wire please use safety glasses. And this applies to all people watching this great video! Keep safe
Yeah, what you said. I think this in a job for an experienced installer. Trials and tribulations but good for you to have parts on hand to trouble shoot and replace and repair. I would get it apart and 10 weeks later one part would arrive, and then another and then, where did I put that first one, and so on.
Hi Jimmy,
Very entertaining video as always. I'm so sorry to hear of the misfortune you've encountered with this project. Best of luck with the repairs.
I was trying to watch this video in the morning, but every time I got to hit play someone was calling. I know I'm bad I should not watch it on the phone.
Anyway personally myself I have never added a decoder into N scale train, so this was really an eye opener. When I finally watched the video, I looked at it at
least 3 more time. I found it really interesting. The only comment I have is why didn't you test the train before putting on the shell, I guess I don't trust my self enough
to do what you did. But what you did found the problem. When you finally get the gearing in I'd like to see how you do that. As Always another educational video. Thanks Jimmy!!!
Great video Jimmy. I am about to convert a 47 year old Con Cor PA-1 Locomotive using the Digitrax DZ126 decoder as well. This old locomotive was my most reliable loco in the 70's and has been in storage for some 40 years. After cleaning it up, it still runs extremely well on DC. The connections from track to motor are very similar to your loco so this video was very helpful for my project.
I cannot tell you how many non-DCC locomotives (N-Scale) I have turned into DCC, and like you said things are tight. At least when you first fired up to loco as DCC you did not let the magic smoke out.
Nice tutorial Jimmy 👍👍👍👍👍
"...the magic smoke..." 🤣
Great video!
I only deal in HO, and frankly, the idea of putting a DCC decoder in an older locomotive is a bit daunting and not something I would do, so props to you for getting it done!
A couple of takeaways:
Test the locomotive in DC before doing your install! :)
Never rely on chassis conductivity when dealing with DCC. DCC requires a continuous and reliable signal from the command station to work properly. Relying on a maybe functional mechanical connection is not a good practice, as you found out. We can't control how the wheels interact with the chassis, but from that wire to the decoder is definitely in our control.
Do it right once, not twice as they say.
Excellent use of Kapton tape. I tape up as much of a chassis as I can around the motor and truck pick up areas. Never now when something might shift just a bit...
This is a really good video Jimmy. You have answered some major questions I have had with a similar wireless motor. I have had the decoder sitting around waiting for inspiration for about two years. This has been my inspiration. Thank you.
Jimmy, I'm impressed. I have done just a few decoder installations on HO scale Athearn "blue box" locomotives, and based on that experience, I would NEVER have the courage to tackle an N scale project. Although by now you have figured this out, the FIRST step in any conversion project is to put the locomotive on a DC test track and run it forward and backward. I suspect that would have allowed you to diagnose and fix (or decide not to fix) the issue before going through the pain of installing the decoder. For people who don't have, and don't want to spend $80 on a DC power pack, an Arduino + motor shield is easily programmed to supply straight DC power - you just need a decent rheostat.
I just realized that my only model train that I ever owned back in the late 70s before i started school was N scale and I did not know that until now.
This video is fantastic timing for me as I've just started to convert the same loco (Spectrum F7A) with the same decoder. I knew it was going to be tough. Sorry you had to go through the pain first..
I have a few older locos that I would love to eventually make DCC, but since I'm sticking to DC at this time I will continue to run them the way they are. I'm also on a tight budget and to convert all my engines and get the layout converted, it would probably be better to not convert. My wife and the bills would not be happy. Great video though because now I have more knowledge than before. Thanks for sharing
Great video, but More reasons for me to purchase DCC power with lights and sound.
Another great video. You always entertain and inform us with a variety of topics. Looking forward to Part 2!
PS: This is why I'm and ACH O'ER! Things are a little easier for these old eyes!
Great video - I thought only the HO locos had the cracked gear issue. New one to me.
One of the problems is that they didn't use the aged delrum plastic (I know I'm spelling that word wrong but) on any of the gears on these early models
good vid thanks lee
Great video, I know what you mean ,did one than went to kato brand the drop in dcc or dcc sound is so easy, looking at installing dcc sound in a atlas n scale dcc ready S2 and want to put in sound ,do you know of site for install instruction info that would help greatly ,keep up the great work
I'm about 50% on having to solder to the motor contacts. I've melted my share of motors doing this. I would put this in the expert category.
Hello Great video! have a question about JMRI and Digitrax decoders what can be done if Digitrax decoder is not listed in JMRI roster can I still program the decoder with JMRI?
Did the Ebay ad say that the loco ran backwards and forwards as expected? Even on DC that wouldn't be the case with faulty gear wheels. I'd report the seller.
I really have a feeling that it is shaking the "rust" out combined with faulty gears. It's nothing I can't fix and luckily Bachmann still sells the parts.
My experience with the cracked gears is that the loco still runs, just rough, clicking and popping with the crack. Most noticeable at slow speeds, and running checks for old locos, if any, rarely are that involved.
Careful Jimmy. That rebuilding locomotives is SMT Harrison gig. He'll send the French Canadian mob after ya.hahaha🤣 it N Scale. Ya get a pass this time🚂🇨🇦🇺🇲🚃🚃🚃🚃🙋
I'm looking at buying a locomotive. If the listing says 'decoder equipped' does that mean the engine can ONLY be run DCC or that it CAN be run DCC?
It really depends on the engine. A lot of times DCC equipped locomotives can run on DC as well.
@@DIYDigitalRailroad Thanks. I'll ask the seller before buying.
Issues like this taugjt me a simple lesson: It's not worth it. The cost of a new engine with decoder already installed vs the cost and hassle of upgrading considering decoders sometimes do not survive the installation is just not feasable anymore. The only reason to buy antique locomotives is that they are no longer manufactured and I want it so badly.
Hoo boy! You probably should have done a little research first. Bachmann locos with the worm on the truck tower are among the most difficult to convert. There is very little space available as the worm takes up considerably more space than in locos where the worm is in the frame, and isolating the motor is more difficult. Additionally that funny spring behind the wheels providing the contact to the frame is a very high drag pickup method, which affects slow speed running. That dates back to Bachmann designs from the '70s. And then there is the dreaded splitting axle gears. When those F units first came out, I bought a rake of four. Six out of the sixteen gears were cracked - and that's when they were new. The one loco like these That I've converted, I drilled and tapped holes in the frame halves for screws for the decoder wires. Another trick is to just drill holes and use pieces of toothpick to secure the wires in the holes.
You'd be much better served by trying to convert an Atlas or Kato locomotive with a split frame and low friction trucks. Most any of their pre-DCC ready locos from about '92 on. And if you wanted to cheat, most of the hood units can be converted using the TCS CN or CN-GP decoder, which replaces the light boards.
Wait until you see me convert a life like loco haha!
@@DIYDigitalRailroad I didn't mention life like as there are different families. There's the plastic deck ones representative of their old 'toy-train' locos (though there were some more respectable ones). The biggest issue with these is that they had (quite fragile) wires from the trucks to the motors. Easy to isolate, painful to solder. Then there are the split frame ones, which are similar to Atlas/Kato to convert.
@@robertmyers5269 this is one of the older ones. It has the wires you mentioned. I’m going to remove the back weight so that there’s room for the decoder then use tungsten putty to add weight back.
I'm curious if you will let the seller know he sold you a loco with cracked gears? Was it listed "as is" I feel like that's a crucial point in your video following recommending eBay as a reputable place to buy used. Thanks!
👍👍👍👍👍
Hi im 14y from finland, so i dont have a lot of options to choose a train brand. I know that here we have märklin, trix and piko. And i dont have a lot of maney so what is the best digital set and i am building my railway under my bed so 200cm c 130cm. And if i want to buy more tracks, what is the best lauout and not boring way to build a railway. Should i buy a base example wood or styrofoam board to build and i want to buy some buildings and some trees and little hill, can you please help me. I dont yet have a starter set.❤
Woodland scenic for scenery Kato for 9mm track
Stay away from styrofoam as a base. It just is not strong enough to take a lot of moving around. As a base board use wood. MDF (Medium Density Fibreboard) is, if I remember pretty common in Europe, I am not sure about Finland. Measure your space. Personally I would go for a board cut to roughly 190cm by 120cm. (I am converting this from 4 feet by 6 foot 6 inches). In the US most wood yards will cut your wood to size.
Brands. Marklin has a good reputation and their equipment is first rate. The disadvantage of Marklin is they use their own control systems and track. It is not compatible with other brands.
Trix I remember has a pretty good reputation. Piko I have not really seen.
Get a set to start, it will have a loop of track, the wiring to connect with your power supply and a transformer to connect with a wall outlet. In addition of a locomotive and two or more cars. Get some additional track and a couple of switches as time and money allows.
Heljan makes really good quality structure models for both HO and N gauge.
At age 9 my mother bought me for Christmas a train set and a 2 foot by 4 foot plywood board to set it up on. The set was by Lima used as models a German diesel and 3 German passenger cars all painted for the New Haven Railroad (US company)! Out of that start I eventually built more.
keren bro
Don’t buy Bachmann?
aaaaand this I will only dcc ready or just pay someone to do this ,wich I had done with an old life like
Hmm that's funny. I have this old Lifelike N Scale FA unit on my desk. Maybe I should put a decoder in it!
@DIY and Digital Railroad dude this old life like a pulling monster its a 6 wheel drive unit
Awright do we need to have a little talk? Or are you going to get that Excavator OUT of that "Gondola" car! (I saw this a while back in another podcast) You know as well as I do that model railroaders don't let modelrailroaders put those in a gondola. I know you have a flatbed car somewhere and don't forget the TIE DOWNS for heaven sake. I think fishing line might work beautifully to model that detail.
The more of these DCC installs I see, the less I want to frustrate myself. Hard pass.