Great tear down video - thanks for posting. @ 9:00 mark - air injection that you removed ? Is that only on Euro engines? I recall USA/Calif models had them in earlier SC’s. My California 83 SC doesn’t have that.
So the 1980-83 911SC engines delivered to type USA were very different than the ROW models. In the USA The 3.0SC models were delivered with smaller port size heads and manifolds, KE-jetronic fuel injection using an O2 Sensor for fuel control, Double pull vacuum cans on the distributor also using a different advance curve, a Catalytic convertor and were 24 less horsepower. USA engines 180 Hp Versus ROW engines 204Hp. The ROW engines were more like the 1978-79 Engines that the USA received just without EGR valves. This was done so that the 911SC could meet the emissions standards of USA at the expense of drivability and performance. Emissions requirements are also why between 1980-85 Porsche did not ship the 930 models to the USA. Kurt
The cost of the steel, shipping and labor is way more than just buying the new part. Plus the plastic gets old and tends to want break anyways, so its better to just replace. Kurt
Your videos are excellent resources and inspire me with enough confidence to go out and find an old air cooled car to restore. Now if only you could bolster my wallet with the same courage!
Great to see you doing a SC this time around since this is what I have. It always amazes me that people don’t change the oil regularly in such an expensive engine. Sinful.
I have an 82 911 SC. I Love that you've cover this specifically. Although, mine is US. However, it's similar enough for me to figured out what you don't cover. Love your videos.
Rockers yes, Rocker shafts not so much. With the shafts I will just have to clean them up and measure them. If they are under size all I can do is replace them. Rockers we can rebush and the faces did not look bad, once again still cleaning and measuring will know more once everything is cleaned. Kurt
Hi Kurt, great video, you and your wife make a great team. They are really cool for the air cooled community, and your work is second to none! I was wondering if you can help me out I have a 86 911 Cab and I need to do an oil change and replace the lower valve cover gaskets. Should I sand the valve covers (I don’t have a steel bench or plate so I’ll have to find a piece of glass) they’re turbo style which I’ve heard they rarely warp. It’s a small leak and I didn’t replace the nylocs after the last valve adjustment (rookie move). I also wanted to check the torque on the lower rocker arms while I was in there. On pelican I’ve heard 15-18lbs. I know the factory torque is 13lbs. do you have a recommendation? Thanks Darren!
Darren, Yes the turbo valve covers rarely give you any issues. Usually when they leak after a valve adjustment it can be due to the surface not being clean and dry enough. The other reason can be using a poor aftermarket gasket. They are a couple of different styles of gasket out there. I like to use the OEM one that has a raised rubber bead impregnated in the gasket. It seems to work the best. For the tightening torque I use 20 NM (about 15 FtLbs), and yes always new nuts and washers. Kurt
@@klassikats Kurt, I have the ones with the silicone or rubber bead on them, I’ll just make sure everything is really clean and dry, and I have new nylocs and washers so I should be good to go. 20 NM it is. Thanks for all your help! Cheers Darren Ps: I can’t wait to see more of the SC rebuild videos, that engine will be way better than new when you get done with it! I really like the shorts too. It’s a shame it was poorly maintained these engines are just amazing, pay me now or pay me later seems appropriate for that one. I believe it will be worth every penny when your done.
Maybe not only the oil changes, but what oil was used? Modern oil with has lower Zddp levels than found in old times. Especially during break in some additive might help.
Another really enjoyable video. Thanks guys. Look forward to following the rest of the build. Not sure if it's something you'd share but it would be interesting to know what the cost of these projects (engines, transaxles etc) is in parts and labour
Glad you are enjoying the video. When it comes to pricing it is really hard to put an exact number on it because every engine is different and every expectation is different. A general range for an engine like this could be $18K to $28K but it just depends on what happens. When is comes to transaxles they can also range greatly in price between $3.5K to $7K depending on what they need. Kurt
Excellent video Kurt. Quick question...I believe you mentioned the the engine and gearbox were shipped to you. Do you mind getting the motor/trans minus the body, or do you prefer to get the whole car, and then drop the motor/trans yourself?
We do about 50/50 on that one. We get a lot of just engine and transmissions and then sometimes we will get the complete vehicle. It just depends on the job and where someone is in the country. Sometimes we will get a hybrid where and owners pulls the engine and transmission and ships them to us then sends us the vehicle once everything is ready to go back together. I like having the complete vehicle at the end because it gives me a chance to look at other systems that can impact the performance of a component I just rebuilt. For example the front cooler system on a 911, The oil tank on a 911. These systems need to be cleaned and flushed before installing a rebuilt engine. The shifter bushing and gear shift assembly needs to be in good shape, new bushings installed and linkage correctly adjusted. Kurt
Hi Kurt, what are your thoughts on degreasing and then vapor blasting the cases on the outside, while the engine is still fully assembled and fully sealed? I do realize that there is still some risk of a small amount of media getting inside so I would do this before a full tear down and rebuild. I’d like to get the cases looking nice and It would be a lot easier to make sure there remains no media inside compared to blasting the cases when they are apart, I wouldn’t risk that. Thanks!
Lukas, No you cannot clean the engine by vapor blasting it while assembled. For one you will still get a bunch of media inside the engine. Two you would be very hard pressed to fit it into a vapor blast machine, Three the pieces you are blasting need to be degreased and completely dis-assembled before blasting. There are no short cuts with any of this work. I will spend about 40 hours cleaning an engine just to get it ready for machine work and measuring work. Hope that helps Kurt
Kurt I have combed through several of your videos looking a technique to remove the rocker arm shafts. The problem that I am having is loosening the bolts with the 5 and 8mm allen wrenches. I have managed to remove 3 shafts. Neither of which had any rubber seals. I their a technique that you use to loosen those bolts? Is there something else that must be undone before loosening those bolts. I am struggling to get those bolts to break loose. Any advise you can share will be appreciated.
So the rocker shafts fitted by the factory will not have the rubber seals installed. That was a technical update that cam along later. As far as loosening the shafts is concerned you need to use a high quality Allen Wrench and they will feel really tight especially if they have not been loosened in a long time. The real trick here is a good fitting quality tool so that you do not round out the heads of the bolts. Kurt
Hoping my '83 SC engine is not that grimy inside.. that one is downright shameful. I change my oil every 3,000 mi. Are you planning any performance modifications for this re-build?
I never recommend running an engine oil designed for diesel engines in a gasoline engine. Diesel oils have a very different additive package than gas oils. These additives can adversely affect the components in your engine, like bearings and seals. Diesel oils also have different molecular makeups, which can result in increased oil leaks. The detergents used in some diesel oils can also be corrosive to engine components that are not designed to be used with these oils. The moral of this story is to use an oil designed for the application you have. To this point, for about the last 10 years now, I have been using Porsche engine oils. These oils are designed not only for gasoline engines but specifically for Porsche air-cooled engines. Kurt
@klassikats T4 through T6 are SN rated as well for gasoline engines. It's higher in anti wear agents, and the T5 blend has a decent amount of moly. Many well-respected P car parts sites sell it with a Mahle OC 54 filter as a change kit. It's been one of the most widely used oils in the air-cooled 911s since the 80s. As a builder, other than owner neglect with lazy oil change intervals, have you seen specific issues related to use of Rotella 15W40?
Just because you can buy an oil change kit from an aftermarket supplier using Rotella does not mean that its right. The biggest issues that I see from people using Diesel oils over the years is oil leaks while in service. I would have to say the engines we do show so many signs of age and poor workmanship in the past that it is hard to attribute a failure to just one type of oil. When I looked at the T5 blend it did not carry the "SN" rating. In the end its up to you. Its your car and if you feel that this is the oil for you, then use it. You will be a better judge of its effect than I will as over time you can track oil consumption, leakage, and if you put enough time on the engine eventually you will be able to inspect wear internally. Kurt
The 911 engine is just gorgeous, and my favorite was the early 2.6L (did I get the displacement correct?) My misgivings with this engine, however, relegate her to a guilty pleasure liaison with an exotic occasional Friday night female drinking partner. (1) Cam shaft housings(Cam boxes?) are indicative of the fact that Porsche designers didn't really take the time, or have the brains and balls to JUST INTEGRATE the Cam with the fire deck portion of the cylinder head(singular - you noticed!😉), and everything be just one single removable part with nude exposed valve rockers and a centrally located camshaft with four or five Cam bearing caps, or even better yet a Cam bearing/Cam hold down cage! (2) Almost all boxer engines develop top end lube oil delivery issues when regular engine oil maintenance is neglected. Of ANY 911 boxer engine coming your way to be rebuilt, you're guaranteed to see completely dry rocker box sections on at least one side of the engine. I'd bet money on it! (3) The damned alternator needs an all-in-one plug to eliminate confusion, but that's just too bad as it is now the mechanic's problem to memorize all those wires! There, I said it! I wouldn't depend on this engine, but I would drive it! Jason Wampler
Jason, The early Porsche 911 engines came in 2.0L, 2.2L, 2.4L, and an RS 2.8L race engine. There were no 2.6L production engines, although that's not to say that someone did not create one. As far as integrating the cambox into a complete head assembly, that only makes sense on a water-cooled application. In fact, Porsche did precisely that with the 996 Water-cooled engines. However, It would be tough to manufacture the cylinder head with all the cooling fins in a single casting for use in an air-cooled application. So much so that it just would not make sense to do so. Every engine I have ever seen that has neglected maintenance will build up sludge and debris. I have seen small block Chevys with so much sludge in the engine that on a big rev, all the oil ends up in the valve covers because it can't drain back to the oil sump. Yes, I have seen rocker and cam failures due to a plugged oil spray tube, but never a completely dry cam box. As far as the alternator is concerned, if the mechanic can't remember 3 wire colors and where they go, and what they do, then they should not be working on any car. I certainly would not want him or her working on anything I own. It is easy to sit back and judge or say that they should do this or that. But they didn't they did it the way they thought made the most sense at the time. The other thing to remember is this is 40-year-old technology. If you look at a new Porsche engine today it is nothing like this. All manufacturers evolve. As new materials become available and new manufacturing techniques help to bring costs down engine design becomes refined. In its day this was cutting-edge and was at the tip of the spear in production sports car engines. Thanks for watching Kurt
Little yard work, little time in the garage, and lunch with Kurt working on Pcar stuff. Perfect Saturday...
Good you enjoyed.
Kurt
generous teachings from a master... thank you Kurt, much appreciate all you do for us
Your welcome.
Kurt
Will be watching this very carefully, over and over again. Hopefully, I will gain confidence to my 911 engine - also 83 SC!
Tear down is the easy part, just take your time and work through each stage. Then start cleaning and cleaning, then clean some more.
Kurt
Great tear down video - thanks for posting. @ 9:00 mark - air injection that you removed ? Is that only on Euro engines? I recall USA/Calif models had them in earlier SC’s. My California 83 SC doesn’t have that.
So the 1980-83 911SC engines delivered to type USA were very different than the ROW models. In the USA The 3.0SC models were delivered with smaller port size heads and manifolds, KE-jetronic fuel injection using an O2 Sensor for fuel control, Double pull vacuum cans on the distributor also using a different advance curve, a Catalytic convertor and were 24 less horsepower. USA engines 180 Hp Versus ROW engines 204Hp. The ROW engines were more like the 1978-79 Engines that the USA received just without EGR valves.
This was done so that the 911SC could meet the emissions standards of USA at the expense of drivability and performance.
Emissions requirements are also why between 1980-85 Porsche did not ship the 930 models to the USA.
Kurt
Appreciate the follow up and explaining the USA vs RoW versions.
HOLY CRAP! Great web site, way to cover the small bits on the 911 engine rebuild!
Thanks, Glad your are enjoying the content
Kurt
Ooo thank you! I am driving an 83 ROW now and sorting through some stuff. Thanks for taking the time to document and share!
Your welcome
Kurt
Another great one! Love the detail and context of reading the evidence and deduction of cause.
Thanks, Glad you enjoyed it.
Kurt
4:54 you could make a sleeve on lathe for the faction of the price and then press it in
The cost of the steel, shipping and labor is way more than just buying the new part. Plus the plastic gets old and tends to want break anyways, so its better to just replace.
Kurt
Your videos are excellent resources and inspire me with enough confidence to go out and find an old air cooled car to restore. Now if only you could bolster my wallet with the same courage!
I hear you there...
Kurt
Great to see you doing a SC this time around since this is what I have. It always amazes me that people don’t change the oil regularly in such an expensive engine. Sinful.
It happens more than you think.
Thanks
Kurt
Dealers and” Specialists “
No doubt the oil was still on the bill though
I have an 82 911 SC.
I Love that you've cover this specifically. Although, mine is US. However, it's similar enough for me to figured out what you don't cover.
Love your videos.
Thanks glad you enjoy our videos
Kurt
Another tremendous video! Thanks for sharing the wisdom!
Your Welcome
Kurt
Hi Kurt, looking forward to this latest video.
hope you enjoy it
Kurt
Can you refinish the rockers and shafts or do they need to be replaced?
Rockers yes, Rocker shafts not so much. With the shafts I will just have to clean them up and measure them. If they are under size all I can do is replace them. Rockers we can rebush and the faces did not look bad, once again still cleaning and measuring will know more once everything is cleaned.
Kurt
Hi Kurt, great video, you and your wife make a great team. They are really cool for the air cooled community, and your work is second to none! I was wondering if you can help me out I have a 86 911 Cab and I need to do an oil change and replace the lower valve cover gaskets. Should I sand the valve covers (I don’t have a steel bench or plate so I’ll have to find a piece of glass) they’re turbo style which I’ve heard they rarely warp. It’s a small leak and I didn’t replace the nylocs after the last valve adjustment (rookie move). I also wanted to check the torque on the lower rocker arms while I was in there. On pelican I’ve heard 15-18lbs. I know the factory torque is 13lbs. do you have a recommendation? Thanks Darren!
Darren,
Yes the turbo valve covers rarely give you any issues. Usually when they leak after a valve adjustment it can be due to the surface not being clean and dry enough. The other reason can be using a poor aftermarket gasket. They are a couple of different styles of gasket out there. I like to use the OEM one that has a raised rubber bead impregnated in the gasket. It seems to work the best. For the tightening torque I use 20 NM (about 15 FtLbs), and yes always new nuts and washers.
Kurt
@@klassikats
Kurt,
I have the ones with the silicone or rubber bead on them, I’ll just make sure everything is really clean and dry, and I have new nylocs and washers so I should be good to go. 20 NM it is. Thanks for all your help! Cheers Darren Ps: I can’t wait to see more of the SC rebuild videos, that engine will be way better than new when you get done with it! I really like the shorts too. It’s a shame it was poorly maintained these engines are just amazing, pay me now or pay me later seems appropriate for that one. I believe it will be worth every penny when your done.
Then most likely you were just not clean enough then.
Thanks and good luck
Kurt
Looking forward to the next one!
Thanks
Kurt
Great videos! Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experiences! 🙏
My pleasure!
Kurt
Top man ! Thanks, very interesting.
Glad you liked it!
Kurt
Maybe not only the oil changes, but what oil was used? Modern oil with has lower Zddp levels than found in old times. Especially during break in some additive might help.
Yes, its possible. I see the effects of different oils on engines, and there some oils out there that are definitely dirtier than others.
Kurt
Another really enjoyable video. Thanks guys. Look forward to following the rest of the build. Not sure if it's something you'd share but it would be interesting to know what the cost of these projects (engines, transaxles etc) is in parts and labour
Glad you are enjoying the video. When it comes to pricing it is really hard to put an exact number on it because every engine is different and every expectation is different. A general range for an engine like this could be $18K to $28K but it just depends on what happens. When is comes to transaxles they can also range greatly in price between $3.5K to $7K depending on what they need.
Kurt
Excellent video Kurt. Quick question...I believe you mentioned the the engine and gearbox were shipped to you. Do you mind getting the motor/trans minus the body, or do you prefer to get the whole car, and then drop the motor/trans yourself?
We do about 50/50 on that one. We get a lot of just engine and transmissions and then sometimes we will get the complete vehicle. It just depends on the job and where someone is in the country. Sometimes we will get a hybrid where and owners pulls the engine and transmission and ships them to us then sends us the vehicle once everything is ready to go back together. I like having the complete vehicle at the end because it gives me a chance to look at other systems that can impact the performance of a component I just rebuilt. For example the front cooler system on a 911, The oil tank on a 911. These systems need to be cleaned and flushed before installing a rebuilt engine. The shifter bushing and gear shift assembly needs to be in good shape, new bushings installed and linkage correctly adjusted.
Kurt
@@klassikats Thanks for the info Kurt. How far out are you scheduling for potential engine rebuilds?
Right now, we are about 8 weeks out. If you like, feel free to reach out directly to us at contact@klassikats.com
thanks
Kurt
Hi Kurt, what are your thoughts on degreasing and then vapor blasting the cases on the outside, while the engine is still fully assembled and fully sealed? I do realize that there is still some risk of a small amount of media getting inside so I would do this before a full tear down and rebuild. I’d like to get the cases looking nice and It would be a lot easier to make sure there remains no media inside compared to blasting the cases when they are apart, I wouldn’t risk that. Thanks!
Lukas,
No you cannot clean the engine by vapor blasting it while assembled. For one you will still get a bunch of media inside the engine. Two you would be very hard pressed to fit it into a vapor blast machine, Three the pieces you are blasting need to be degreased and completely dis-assembled before blasting. There are no short cuts with any of this work. I will spend about 40 hours cleaning an engine just to get it ready for machine work and measuring work.
Hope that helps
Kurt
I have a 1982 SC with eratic idle with popping and smells lean. Time to check the WUR.
Time check over everything.
Kurt
Kurt I have combed through several of your videos looking a technique to remove the rocker arm shafts. The problem that I am having is loosening the bolts with the 5 and 8mm allen wrenches. I have managed to remove 3 shafts. Neither of which had any rubber seals. I their a technique that you use to loosen those bolts? Is there something else that must be undone before loosening those bolts. I am struggling to get those bolts to break loose. Any advise you can share will be appreciated.
So the rocker shafts fitted by the factory will not have the rubber seals installed. That was a technical update that cam along later. As far as loosening the shafts is concerned you need to use a high quality Allen Wrench and they will feel really tight especially if they have not been loosened in a long time. The real trick here is a good fitting quality tool so that you do not round out the heads of the bolts.
Kurt
First time seeing a old Porsche breakdown, why is there so many main bearings?
Support, A well held crankshaft can be lighter therefore more responsive.
Kurt
is there a part 2?
Yes,
th-cam.com/video/uXmjIrTZC6s/w-d-xo.html
Hoping my '83 SC engine is not that grimy inside.. that one is downright shameful. I change my oil every 3,000 mi. Are you planning any performance modifications for this re-build?
No just doing the Porsche TSB up grades and keeping it stoke.
Kurt
As a rebuilder, what is your opinion on running Shell Rotella T5 syntheic blend 15w40?
I never recommend running an engine oil designed for diesel engines in a gasoline engine. Diesel oils have a very different additive package than gas oils. These additives can adversely affect the components in your engine, like bearings and seals. Diesel oils also have different molecular makeups, which can result in increased oil leaks. The detergents used in some diesel oils can also be corrosive to engine components that are not designed to be used with these oils.
The moral of this story is to use an oil designed for the application you have. To this point, for about the last 10 years now, I have been using Porsche engine oils. These oils are designed not only for gasoline engines but specifically for Porsche air-cooled engines.
Kurt
@klassikats T4 through T6 are SN rated as well for gasoline engines. It's higher in anti wear agents, and the T5 blend has a decent amount of moly. Many well-respected P car parts sites sell it with a Mahle OC 54 filter as a change kit. It's been one of the most widely used oils in the air-cooled 911s since the 80s. As a builder, other than owner neglect with lazy oil change intervals, have you seen specific issues related to use of Rotella 15W40?
Just because you can buy an oil change kit from an aftermarket supplier using Rotella does not mean that its right. The biggest issues that I see from people using Diesel oils over the years is oil leaks while in service. I would have to say the engines we do show so many signs of age and poor workmanship in the past that it is hard to attribute a failure to just one type of oil. When I looked at the T5 blend it did not carry the "SN" rating.
In the end its up to you. Its your car and if you feel that this is the oil for you, then use it. You will be a better judge of its effect than I will as over time you can track oil consumption, leakage, and if you put enough time on the engine eventually you will be able to inspect wear internally.
Kurt
It is so unlike a CORVAIR engine and 1.7times as complex as a vw beetle type 1 engine! I learned something!
Glad you learned something
Kurt
The 911 engine is just gorgeous, and my favorite was the early 2.6L (did I get the displacement correct?) My misgivings with this engine, however, relegate her to a guilty pleasure liaison with an exotic occasional Friday night female drinking partner.
(1) Cam shaft housings(Cam boxes?) are indicative of the fact that Porsche designers didn't really take the time, or have the brains and balls to JUST INTEGRATE the Cam with the fire deck portion of the cylinder head(singular - you noticed!😉), and everything be just one single removable part with nude exposed valve rockers and a centrally located camshaft with four or five Cam bearing caps, or even better yet a Cam bearing/Cam hold down cage!
(2) Almost all boxer engines develop top end lube oil delivery issues when regular engine oil maintenance is neglected. Of ANY 911 boxer engine coming your way to be rebuilt, you're guaranteed to see completely dry rocker box sections on at least one side of the engine. I'd bet money on it!
(3) The damned alternator needs an all-in-one plug to eliminate confusion, but that's just too bad as it is now the mechanic's problem to memorize all those wires!
There, I said it! I wouldn't depend on this engine, but I would drive it!
Jason Wampler
Jason,
The early Porsche 911 engines came in 2.0L, 2.2L, 2.4L, and an RS 2.8L race engine. There were no 2.6L production engines, although that's not to say that someone did not create one.
As far as integrating the cambox into a complete head assembly, that only makes sense on a water-cooled application. In fact, Porsche did precisely that with the 996 Water-cooled engines. However, It would be tough to manufacture the cylinder head with all the cooling fins in a single casting for use in an air-cooled application. So much so that it just would not make sense to do so.
Every engine I have ever seen that has neglected maintenance will build up sludge and debris. I have seen small block Chevys with so much sludge in the engine that on a big rev, all the oil ends up in the valve covers because it can't drain back to the oil sump. Yes, I have seen rocker and cam failures due to a plugged oil spray tube, but never a completely dry cam box.
As far as the alternator is concerned, if the mechanic can't remember 3 wire colors and where they go, and what they do, then they should not be working on any car. I certainly would not want him or her working on anything I own.
It is easy to sit back and judge or say that they should do this or that. But they didn't they did it the way they thought made the most sense at the time. The other thing to remember is this is 40-year-old technology. If you look at a new Porsche engine today it is nothing like this. All manufacturers evolve. As new materials become available and new manufacturing techniques help to bring costs down engine design becomes refined. In its day this was cutting-edge and was at the tip of the spear in production sports car engines.
Thanks for watching
Kurt
I just wish this was my engine!
When ever you are read Chuck
Kurt
@Matt13Ross thought you mind this enjoyable! :)
Thanks
Kurt
Engines are really complicated.
Not so much. Just a lot of parts to deal with...
Kurt
Kurt could prob almost do these in his sleep,
Yes, I done one or two of these before.
Kurt
A 911 should not be motor swapped with something lame like a Chevy.
Okay.
Kurt