While I'm not a blacksmith, have never played one on TV (nor have I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express..), I have used similar techniques, to set rivets, etc.. Great video, as it's always good to see how others go about getting the job done! [thumbs up]
Believe it or not throwing them rivets in the freezer awhile does shrink them enough to slip in a tight fit. Once it warms back up it's tight. An old trick we use to slip in dry sleeves in engine blocks.
Thanks for passing on your knowledge. I use aluminum rivets daily for Boeing and sikorsky helicopters. Sometimes repairs turn out beautiful and i really enjoy it. The most difficult parts for me are used holes that shouldnt be oversized for edge distance reasons and trying to be neat when installing them wet with sealants.
Great Video , the extra Info on the rivet and the rivet being blind , has really added a Bunch more to using rivets for other purposes ! Thank You John !
Thanks John. I found a way that works pretty well for me. After drilling the rivet hole, I take an 1/8" bit and drill 2 or 3 angled holes about an 1/8" deep in where the bottom of the hole and the wall of the hole meet, then I put in an orange hot rivet and set it. I first cool the rivet head. The hot rivet shank tends to "squeeze" into those small holes providing a very good anchor hold. Jerry
Interesting fact regarding your second technique John. As a machinist we use that method quite frequently....its called heat fit or freeze fit. It can be a very permanent technique or temporary as required. We take very precision machined and drilled tool holders and will heat them to expand the opening then drop in a drill, end mill, reamer, etc....once the holder cools off its held very tight and extremely true. Most times its done with a steel holder and a carbide tool. Since the carbide heats and expands more slowly than the steel you can reheat the holder quickly and remove a worn out tool. If you use this method with similar metals though its nearly permanent since any attempt to reheat will cause both parts to expand at the same rate not freeing up the tool for removal. Additionally we use a reverse method called freeze fit when we make stainless steel industrial rollers for fabric. The roller tubes are hollow and require bearing end caps. Since there can't be a weld seam between the cap and roller body (which could snag the fabric) we use liquid nitrogen to freeze the caps causing them to shrink. Then drop the cap into the end of the roller tube. Once the caps warm back to room temperature they have expanded into a perfect permanent fit in the tubes. DISCLAIMER.....anyone that reads this..... the freeze fit can be very DANGEROUS !! Working with liquid nitrogen should only be done by professionally trained people.....remember the terminator movies....that's no joke it will freeze soft tissue to the point of shattering....the guys just last week tried it with a piece of bread which shattered into crumbs when dropped on the floor!!! Not to mention the other numerous hazards!!
A wedge tenon is another good idea. Waller out the hole to make the inside wider than the opening. Split the rivet and put a wedge in the split extending out the bottom of the slot. Then drive the whole thing in the hole expanding the rivet shank. It's a very strong connection.
I've found drilling and tapping the hole, then thread a piece of stock makes a great blind rivet where it may be subject to some level of force, then use a propane torch to set the rivet without damaging the threads. I've used it where measurements are critical.
Great video John, this is a subject I haven't really thought about before! I imagine you could get really technical and widen the opening at the base of the hole with a rotary tool to increase the space in wich the rivet could upset to increase the strength, but that would be fairly labour intensive.
Three other blind drive fasteners for the purpose are: 1. bent shank (concrete spike anchor) 2. slit shank (split drive anchor) 3. u-drive/hammer-drive screws. All are friction capture cold set. 1. & 2. are typically concrete anchors but I see no reason they wouldn't work in steel and they can be made with simple deforming modification to standard rivets.
If you make a 'bottom drill' with a gap in the center to form a center 'spike' at the bottom of the hole, the rivet will hold much better due to the spread of the end.
Another way of peening a rivet is to use a round tool that looks like a hole punch like you use for gaskets, except the bevels are backwards. Take round stock roughly 1/16" larger than the rivet hole. Drill a hole in the end of the round stock a bit over the size of the rivet shank. Use a countersink and run it deep enough to create a sharpish edge so the outside is straight and the inside is beveled. If you use that it will swage the material in over the rivet head nice and tight.
Thanks for sharing this set of techniques and the options of additional techniques. Knowledge is truely a valuable tool. These various options should cover a fairly broad range of possibilities. Another sucessfull class at Switzer ⚒ U. 😁 Blessed days 2 u n urs sir Crawford out
Something that comes to mind, not that I have ever actually done it before, is to take a Dremel with a ball cutter and make the bottom of the blind hole wider than the surface, which would result in an extremely strong joint.
Drill a hole the size of the rivet take a small ball rotary bit to the bottom of the hole not at the top and mill out the bottom bigger then the top then set the rivet. It will swell the bottom and it won't come out.
Thank you for this simple explanation on blind rivets. Everything else I looked at kept on veering into pop rivets which was not what I was looking for. You mentioned cross pinning rivets for adding ballisters on angled rails and that is exactly what I need to know for my project. Do you know where I can find more information on that technique? Better yet, do you have a video? Any help will be very appreciated :)
Hello sir, can you tell please what is the pair of tools shown in your upper right hand. It looks like hand vises without the screws. What is and how do you use it? Thank you.
john your shirt is making me snicker, served in bed raises the dead, and rivets its a curiousity of mine want to try sometime I can get more gas for the torch, and have the time to hack up a bar to try to make rivets out of it though a plate of metal to join the two of them
I was wondering about something Alec Steele did when inlaying there Viking sword with the gold wire. I took an engraving tool and undercut the channel then hammered the wire in. Would something like that work in this application?
I have another idea. You could expand the hole you drilled into the bar with a carbide bit but only on the bottom of the hole. Then you insert your hot rivet and it then can fill in the cavity you just created, making it much more heavy duty.
While I'm not a blacksmith, have never played one on TV (nor have I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express..), I have used similar techniques, to set rivets, etc.. Great video, as it's always good to see how others go about getting the job done! [thumbs up]
Believe it or not throwing them rivets in the freezer awhile does shrink them enough to slip in a tight fit. Once it warms back up it's tight. An old trick we use to slip in dry sleeves in engine blocks.
A buddy of mine told me they would use dry ice for cylinder sleeves to get them shrunk down to fit into place.
Thanks for passing on your knowledge. I use aluminum rivets daily for Boeing and sikorsky helicopters. Sometimes repairs turn out beautiful and i really enjoy it. The most difficult parts for me are used holes that shouldnt be oversized for edge distance reasons and trying to be neat when installing them wet with sealants.
Great Video , the extra Info on the rivet and the rivet being blind , has really added a Bunch more to using rivets for other purposes ! Thank You John !
Thank you John for all you do!
Can you see it?
Yes I saw it.@@thomasmckelvey8961
@@jls191 seeing it now.
Thanks John. I found a way that works pretty well for me. After drilling the rivet hole, I take an 1/8" bit and drill 2 or 3 angled holes about an 1/8" deep in where the bottom of the hole and the wall of the hole meet, then I put in an orange hot rivet and set it. I first cool the rivet head. The hot rivet shank tends to "squeeze" into those small holes providing a very good anchor hold. Jerry
Interesting fact regarding your second technique John. As a machinist we use that method quite frequently....its called heat fit or freeze fit. It can be a very permanent technique or temporary as required. We take very precision machined and drilled tool holders and will heat them to expand the opening then drop in a drill, end mill, reamer, etc....once the holder cools off its held very tight and extremely true. Most times its done with a steel holder and a carbide tool. Since the carbide heats and expands more slowly than the steel you can reheat the holder quickly and remove a worn out tool. If you use this method with similar metals though its nearly permanent since any attempt to reheat will cause both parts to expand at the same rate not freeing up the tool for removal.
Additionally we use a reverse method called freeze fit when we make stainless steel industrial rollers for fabric. The roller tubes are hollow and require bearing end caps. Since there can't be a weld seam between the cap and roller body (which could snag the fabric) we use liquid nitrogen to freeze the caps causing them to shrink. Then drop the cap into the end of the roller tube. Once the caps warm back to room temperature they have expanded into a perfect permanent fit in the tubes.
DISCLAIMER.....anyone that reads this..... the freeze fit can be very DANGEROUS !! Working with liquid nitrogen should only be done by professionally trained people.....remember the terminator movies....that's no joke it will freeze soft tissue to the point of shattering....the guys just last week tried it with a piece of bread which shattered into crumbs when dropped on the floor!!! Not to mention the other numerous hazards!!
Your shirt speaks to me. I live the name of one of my favorite ales every day: "Wake Up Dead".
Great video Sir. Good techniques, simply explained. Very watchable content.
You have a new subscriber from across the pond.
Thanks for the vid , very helpful with lots of info .
A wedge tenon is another good idea. Waller out the hole to make the inside wider than the opening. Split the rivet and put a wedge in the split extending out the bottom of the slot. Then drive the whole thing in the hole expanding the rivet shank. It's a very strong connection.
2:59 you could also put the rivet in the freezer so it contracts plus heat the bar
Some great techniques used here, another day where i learned something.
I've found drilling and tapping the hole, then thread a piece of stock makes a great blind rivet where it may be subject to some level of force, then use a propane torch to set the rivet without damaging the threads. I've used it where measurements are critical.
I found this video riveting. Great as usual
Groan..... LOL!
Your Raven Brew tee shirt looks more well used than mine. Good stuff, that Raven Brew!
Oh, and thanks for another top-notch video!
I'm on my second one
Great information. Never thought about doing the blind rivet. Much better look than a bolt or screw.
Great video John, this is a subject I haven't really thought about before! I imagine you could get really technical and widen the opening at the base of the hole with a rotary tool to increase the space in wich the rivet could upset to increase the strength, but that would be fairly labour intensive.
These are nice techniques to know, very useful, thanks!
Great information and a lot of ideas. Thank you John. ⚒ on!!
I got distracted by the t-shirt lol. Love it
I had to go look up that coffee also... LOL
Hello John
A very usefull Video looking and learning what a great thing
All the best
Yours Frank
John I love that Tshirt, I love your Videos haha almost as much as I love coffee.
Thanks for the tutorial!
You're welcome
John you make me laugh so much, "I outsmarted myself" hehe. Nice techniques, a lot can be done with a center punch. Thanks Be Well
Three other blind drive fasteners for the purpose are: 1. bent shank (concrete spike anchor) 2. slit shank (split drive anchor) 3. u-drive/hammer-drive screws. All are friction capture cold set. 1. & 2. are typically concrete anchors but I see no reason they wouldn't work in steel and they can be made with simple deforming modification to standard rivets.
I have a vague memory John did cover using a split rivet a while back, in a flower build or similar (not the recent one)
Awesome video John! I think you could also weld in the upside down rivet and since something is going over top it would be very secure.
That shirt is amazing! Assuming it's an actual coffee company, I actually want to try it now...
The company is actually Ravens Brew coffee. This is just one of their blends.
@@BlackBearForge Awesome thanks!
I love that shirt, --- expresses my hopes about what coffee will do for me!
Best coffee ever
Thank you for the advice and cool t shirt
Very interesting John.
If you make a 'bottom drill' with a gap in the center to form a center 'spike' at the bottom of the hole, the rivet will hold much better due to the spread of the end.
or drop a tiny ball bearing in the hole
Another way of peening a rivet is to use a round tool that looks like a hole punch like you use for gaskets, except the bevels are backwards. Take round stock roughly 1/16" larger than the rivet hole. Drill a hole in the end of the round stock a bit over the size of the rivet shank. Use a countersink and run it deep enough to create a sharpish edge so the outside is straight and the inside is beveled. If you use that it will swage the material in over the rivet head nice and tight.
Awesome informational educational video experience Y'alls and Hey You guys
Thanks for sharing this set of techniques and the options of additional techniques. Knowledge is truely a valuable tool. These various options should cover a fairly broad range of possibilities.
Another sucessfull class at Switzer ⚒ U. 😁
Blessed days 2 u n urs sir
Crawford out
Nice one John. What we would do without rivets eh. Thanks for the post my friend.
Something that comes to mind, not that I have ever actually done it before, is to take a Dremel with a ball cutter and make the bottom of the blind hole wider than the surface, which would result in an extremely strong joint.
That would probably work well
Drill a hole the size of the rivet take a small ball rotary bit to the bottom of the hole not at the top and mill out the bottom bigger then the top then set the rivet. It will swell the bottom and it won't come out.
I used these a lot in jewelry work. And sometimes they were structural (though small)
Thank you for this simple explanation on blind rivets. Everything else I looked at kept on veering into pop rivets which was not what I was looking for. You mentioned cross pinning rivets for adding ballisters on angled rails and that is exactly what I need to know for my project. Do you know where I can find more information on that technique? Better yet, do you have a video? Any help will be very appreciated :)
I watch it well !!
Hello sir, can you tell please what is the pair of tools shown in your upper right hand. It looks like hand vises without the screws. What is and how do you use it? Thank you.
th-cam.com/video/9ioyPyHi4OE/w-d-xo.html
вот и ответ на мой вопрос!))) огромное спасибо!
Thanks very much!
realy like your tee shirt
Have you ever used drive pins?
(used to mount machine plates, etc.)
Спасибо.Не зная английский ВСЕ! Понятно.
Never thought of usen rivets in that manner
john your shirt is making me snicker, served in bed raises the dead, and rivets its a curiousity of mine want to try sometime I can get more gas for the torch, and have the time to hack up a bar to try to make rivets out of it though a plate of metal to join the two of them
It amazes me how many blind rivets actually go into building an airplane. Check out the Van's aircraft kits
Will there be a pop quiz after recess? 🐾🔥⚒
💯
would that be a pop rivet quiz
@@BlackBearForge
But jedi master!, of course¡¿¡
I was wondering about something Alec Steele did when inlaying there Viking sword with the gold wire. I took an engraving tool and undercut the channel then hammered the wire in. Would something like that work in this application?
I like a good rivet
I am getting this Video in unavailable wen I try to watch it
I did too on the app. But it's available on tv's TH-cam website.
Where can I get that coffee my wife said I need it.
It is sold by Ravens Brew in Alaska store.ravensbrewcoffee.com/collections/all-coffee
Trevor's dad😂
Are this not called full rivets and not blind rivets also called pop rivets 🤔 that you need a pop Rivet gun for.
My adventure with woodworking started with Stodoys.
I have another idea. You could expand the hole you drilled into the bar with a carbide bit but only on the bottom of the hole. Then you insert your hot rivet and it then can fill in the cavity you just created, making it much more heavy duty.
Thanks for the lesson!