The Dodge Journey has one of the most communicative steering racks of any new car today. I rented one and was blown away at how good it was while understeering down an onramp.
Jason, hands down, you're the best "thing" that happened to car enthusiasts everywhere since.. forever. Love your channel, love the interaction between you and Derek and, while I realize that it's unfeasible, I could do with one PCF video every day. Keep up the awesome work your team is doing you... Ryan Reynolds of the car world 😁
It’s like he’s seen people with character and personality before, but can’t quite emulate them. Kind of a sociopath/pantomime vibe happening. I’m thinking his dad got him a job or something? We have different opinions, and that is great! I’m glad you enjoy a thing out there in YT land.
Lane Keep Assist almost got me killed in my Accord when I was trying to avoid an idiot that swerved into my lane. Never acted so quick to turn that crap off. And yes, if you cannot stay in yo lane or park by yourself, you should not be driving period
Yeah you're exaggerating here, it turns itself off automatically when you move the steering wheel. It wasn't at fault, it was the other driver. Get your facts right before blaming it.
Victor Estrada correction, it acted at the split moment when I least expected it, so yes it could’ve been a disaster. In any case I have no problems staying in my lane, as should any driver with a valid license shown be able to. Call me old school but it’s a feature I don’t care for.
Mint. If you’re so tired that you have difficulty staying in a lane, you are just as dangerous as a intoxicated driver behind the wheel. If a lane keep assist feature makes people like this comfortable to take the wheel, who the hell are we saving?
We should also be talking about how EPAS can use a piezoelectric force sensor rather than hydraulic's spool valve. So you can actually get EPAS to feel really good if it's tuned right.
@2:40 I laughed way harder than I should have. The British impersonation was spot on. But the billowing fire followed by the willhelm scream, priceless.
Funny, but now that I've looked it up, power steering fluid isn't flammable below 400 degrees F. A lot of other stuff in the car will catch fire before the power steering fluid, like wiring or plastic trim.
it seems that repairing damaged e-powersteering units are more expensive than repairing damaged hydraulic ones. i think this is because e-powersteering units generally just get replaced as a whole instead of getting serviced.
My first Miata had manual steering. It had good feel, but because it was coupled with a slower ratio to make low speed maneuvering effort easier, it was always inferior to the power steering racks. Once I got my next Miata with quicker ratio power steering, I never looked back. My FR-S has electric power steering and I am convinced it has better feel than my old Miata's hydraulic rack.
Additional hold-out, for now: Subaru, with the current model STI, it's a hydraulically assisted system that actually can be, with modification, installed into any old subaru you like
Many cars like the taurus 4th gen used the automatic transmission fluid as power steering fluid, though both stayed as separate systems of course. Meaning no power steering fluid fires.
I worked in ZF TRW before as a EPS tuning engineer and also a big fan of Cammisa of course, it is totally true that EPS system in general has much less road feedback compared with hydraulic system, but on the other hand, with its sophisticated control parameter including assist, return, damping etc, a EPS system can actually produce a better chassis response vs steering torque build up relationship, that means vehicle response linearity is directly linked with steering torque build up and driver knows exactly where the vehicle will go, this is where the precision feeling came from, currently there are so many EPS tuning engineers out there doesn’t really understand how to produce this man and machine into one feeling by matching the response and torque build up, (because it takes a sensitive butt, a pair of sensitive hands and love of cars) some times they also added too much damping and return, which makes the steering feels artificial and like some very badly tuned brake pedals that requires a lot of modulation to find the ideal deceleration that you are looking for, so in the end a nicely tuned EPS system can actually feel better than most hydraulic system, apart from road feedback, because most hydraulic system you cannot tune it with vehicle speed dependency, but EPS could, and with hydraulic system I have to say having only plenty of road feedback doesn’t promise a precise steering, currently the best EPS tuning I personally reckon are the ones from 911GT3RS and GT86(only face lift, pre face lift had too much artificial return force), most new BMWs and their ThyssenKrupp system doesn’t really feel good, part of because it’s tuning the other it’s because they use a closed loop EPS logic that is even less sensitive to the input from road.
I'm with ya. The 991.2 GT3 RS is the best EPAS yet, and in terms of system response and weighting, it's perfect. Feedback? Well you said it yourself: "apart from road feedback." That's the only real negative left, but it's enough to ruin the experience in most cars. The pre-facelift 86 had no ability to self-center on the highway, either, and required constant corrections. I don't remember that on the facelift cars, but I also don't remember thinking it was one of the best.
JasonCammisa Yes, with pre facelift 86 the high speed on center return is almost zero, but what affect the most for the driving feel is that the steering feels like a rubber band around off center due to too much active return force(this is a torque generated by the EPS motor to force the steering back to center and can be calibrated under difference vehicle speed, steering angle and some even with steering speed),when the pre facelift 86 enters the corner on the grip limit and the moment where the rear axle starts to lost grip, because of this strong active return force covered everything up, driver doesn’t sense a torque change in his hand, also when release the steering wheel at that moment , the steering doesn’t counter steer by itself like some hydraulic steering cars, because the caster force transmitted to the steering wheel helping the steering counter steer toward the end lock position is overwhelmed by this active return force pointing towards the center point, so strangely for small slides driver has to pull the steering wheel outwards by himself to counter steer(unless it’s a big slide), on a face lift one it feels much better, when the rear axle starts to lose grip I instantly know it and I just have to release my hands and the car correct it self and then I grab the wheel and smoothly pull it back to center, the whole process is just more enjoyable. Yeah I know the facelift 86 maybe not one of the best but it’s a big step forward compared with pre-face lift. Anyway It’s being a absolute honor to discuss those stuff with you, looking forward to more videos like this ;)
It took only 50 years for hydraulic steering - but 50 years from now we won't have steering wheels at all. We're pretty close in some cases (Porsche GT-cars)... good enough that the cars don't lose that much. We'll never get to the gritty feedback that hydraulic steering gave, but I suspect in 10 years everyone will have forgotten about that. Except those of us with old cars.
Until the S2000 and Mk5 GTI. Manufacturers already can make great feeling EPAS, they're just working on balancing most enthusiasts wanting to have feeling and most customers not.
Most cars on the road will be self-driving. People who want to drive their own cars will eventually have to pay extremely high insurance rates, since of course you're a "silly human" prone to accidents, and a machine is not. Self-drive vehicles is where the direction appears to be headed - all the small, but noticeably gradual changes are all there hinting at it already - removing the responsibility and awareness of the driver to actually be engaged in driving.
@@jonbar140 I don't think you've heard of Gordon Murray. The t.50 (the only successor to the McLaren f1) will have epas up to 10 mph, then completely unassisted above that. It also weighs 2200lbs which really helps :) There will be only 100 made.
I'm fine with EPAS if its well tuned, my Mk7 Alltrack is pretty darned good at the helm; I could do without all the lane keep and autopilot stuff...crutches for bad drivers who should have their licenses taken away instead, plus as another commenter I saw noted, they do some squirrely, even dangerous things sometimes.
I'm pretty happy with the Mk7 EPAS tuning. It's a little light, and the Mk5 VWs had way more communicative EPAS. But overall, it has a good sense of straight ahead - until it's filtering out torque steer (which your 4Motion car won't have much of.) Then, it goes obviously, painfully, temporarily numb.
The EPAS in the MK6 was.quite numb, but it was far more accurate than any regular car with HPS I've driven - or maybe it's because I've never driven a regular car with HPS and low profile tires.
You neglected something about McLaren's power steering. It is hydraulic but the pump is driven by an electric motor. It reminded me of one of the gearheads in my highschool. He had a setup he used at the track. He took off the normal belt and put one on that just ran the alternator from the crank and another belt that ran the water pump from a rewound drill motor. The power steering and AC compressor did not have belts at all in this configuration. But then he was the kind of crazy that ran solid lifters and a high rise intake on the street (it was at least a dual-plane though).
I prefer the manual steering in 3 of my 4 cars. The one with hydraulic power steering I have seriously considered swapping in the OE optional manual rack. All of my cars are sub 2300 lbs.
My 1st car (1982 Dodge Charger) had arm strong steering and no power assist breaks. Under powered, naturally asperated, 2 barrel carb. But hey, it had great road feel. Lol
That was a really sharp explanation, thanks. Unsurprisingly, my 1989 Porsche 944t steered amazingly, while the Tesla 3 AWD I sold it for, makes me poop every time I go hot in to a corner. I could take the 944 into most corners attwice the posted limit for example and not worry. I would welcome a video from Issimi on how and why good hydraulic beats great electric.
Its also expensive to fix! I have a 2013 Ram 1500 with 50,000 miles on it and my EPS system went out!, $3,147 dollars to get it fixed!,and FYI there is no recall on the 2013 models about this,and it wasn't under warranty!
You could have stopped at "period." Go drive a new 3-series on performance Michelins. Then, drive a Tesla Model 3 on the same tires - and you'll see it's not all down to the tires. :)
When I was learning to drive my instructor had a Golf Mk4 (hydraulic stearing) and all was well and good, then on the day of my test he showed up in a Golf Mk7 (EPAS), first I thought cool I'll drive a newer car and then came the first corner... Jesus Christ I call that dangerous, I turned the wheel and eventually the car started going that way but I didn't feel a goddamn thing, I genuinely started breaking because it didn't feel right 😂
Some manufacturers seem to do better than others I rented a Renault Megane and I still don't know if the wheels were connected to the steering wheel. The brakes had no feeling either. My 2011 focus has hydraulic.
My 12 year old car has it. Although there is a necessary reduction in feel, it is not absent entirely, claims to the contrary be damned. I can absolutely feel the difference in road surfaces, it is just not nearly as good. However I know exactly why my car has EPAS: the four cylinder engine was not mounted transversly. It is fore-and-aft like a straight six or eight. The ancilliary systems go where the steering column normally went. So they went with EPAS. Clever.
Dual Pinion EPAS is much better than single pinion. With dual pinion, the electric motor is on a second pinion gear on the passenger side of the rack. This allows for more steering feedback (less numb) into the steering wheel. Many cars, including but not limited to 2nd gen NSX use dual pinion rack.
Oh Jason stop killing me! 😂😂 Now I’m considering trading my car for a hydraulic power steering one - just it can be nice when I’m cold in the winter 🥶 🔥🔥
I find my mk5 R32 well tuned, with this car I’m not missing the old hydraulic one. On other cars is a different story, basic Renault Clio is completely numb and you can’t feel anything from the road.
I find that too. On the mk7 it just feels perfect, and I can feel the road texture and feedback. Do I drive in really crappy roads? Maybe, but it works wonders for me
I've become accustomed to EPS and it makes my Corvette and hellcat feel broken when I drive them vs my m340i and escape since its muting all communication from the front axle
I was so happy to see that you (what's your name?) were back! You've gone only to podcast format now and that makes me sad! Come on back to automotive multimedia entertainment, you are missed!
I've driven compacts with manual steering. The feedback is SO much better than either hydraulic or electric PS that it's worth the PITA of parallel parking. I'd gladly accept electric PS that drops out 100% above 10 MPH.
While the supply part is true, it is always the car company that tunes the steering wheel's feel, not the supplier. It'd also be possible to tune the electric power steering, so that it'd send road vibrations through the wheel, but once again it is the car company that decides against it. I think the steering in sport mode / race mode / hyperspace mode or whatever they call it these days, should send more feel through the steering wheel (not by making it rock hard) and disable all the steering compensation. This way we enthusiast could get a more responsive steering, but when you just want to travel, cruise around, then you can just leave it in normal / comfort mode and it'll do all the clever stuff like crosswind compensation, dampen bumps, lane keep assist etc.
We need more people to see this, and pick up on the fact that the steering wheel has a mechanical connection to the wheels in *every* picture. I keep meeting people that don't realize "power steering" is really short for "power *assisted* steering" and they think their steering wheel is just an input device. ...And these dumb ****s have licenses to drive. 🙄
Steering feel is fantastic while carving corners. It's garbage when you're sitting in traffic on a banked curve. Every day, I was fighting the angle of a curve at 3mph in an Acura TSX with a clutch as heavy as the sun. ...BUT! It did drive great otherwise lol
Why not just combine to two like Mazda did, my Mazdaspeed 3 has electro-hydraulic steering. An electric motor runs the pump so no parisitic loss plus it's easy as hell to replace since it sits under the washer fluid bottle.
I really enjoy these videos with Jason and the fun editing, but as a suggestion for additional content, I’d love a more in-depth video (maybe featuring “hyphen” instead of Cammisa just to change things up) on why some electric steering systems feel better than others. Why do people rave about the quality of the Porsche GT cars steering compared to others? I’ve heard positive reviews of the Mustang’s electric steering as well. But I’d love to know the technical reasons as to WHY they are better if for no other reason than to inform me as a buyer so I can support automakers that go that extra mile with steering feel. Vote with my money as it were.
These are conceived, written, and produced by me - nobody will ever "host" something I write. And though Derek is a walking encyclopedia, deep technical stuff isn't what he does. And while I agree that there's a lot more to this situation than I can fit in a 2-minute video, the feel comes down to literally hundreds of factors, from weight to tires to suspension design to alignment to software to the size of the assist motor to the rigidity of the front structure to the torque sensor. Nobody's going to watch a 3-hour-long video explaining that, and I'm not going to pay to produce a video nobody wants to watch. :)
@@JasonCammisa Thanks for the reply, and I meant no disrespect, I meant it only as uneducated feedback. And for the record, I would watch a 3-hour-long video of you explaining all the technical factors that go into achieving good steering feel :)
I dont want a computer correcting my input to the car. SURE DIDNT GO WELL FOR THE BOEING 737 MAX. STEERING COMPENSATION is MCAS in cars. I love my hydraulic power steering. Eventually electyric will be just as good. You just need to give it time.
You forgot to mention LEAKS in hydraulic power steering. And the fact that if you lose all of the fluid, or the pump fails, you're left with an almost impossible to steer car! Electric power steering makes much more sense. And it can be dialed in to let more feedback from the road. It's just that most engineers haven't figured out how to do that, yet.
Honestly If I had the cash I'd take a 570S over a GTR. The way a car feels when you turn the wheel and what you can feel through it is really important to me.
Electrically assisted powers steering is great an all but wait until the motor fails. The extra drag of the motor make it almost impossible to steer the car. I would say even more then hydraulic steering failing. 2014 chevy SS.
There's no reason electric power steering should be any more numb than hydrolic. It's all about how it's tuned. They both do the same thing, assist your input with more power. There's no reason the motor can't have less reaction torque to make you feel more weight of the rack and the vibrations coming up from the tires. There are already cars that people rave about having good feel with electric ps. The real problem is there's just not enough customers that care enough to make it a deal breaker. So like the man said. If the common suppliers for steering systems aren't making systems with good feel options none of the manufacturers will have them.
Nothing's impossible. But putting an electric motor onto a hydraulic system that would help turn the wheel is... overcomplicated at best, nuts at worst. So we won't be seeing that.
The Dodge Journey has one of the most communicative steering racks of any new car today. I rented one and was blown away at how good it was while understeering down an onramp.
and getting passed by a prius while getting 18mpg avg lol
Not gonna lie, had me in the first half
The Journey also had the best 4 speed auto in a new car in 2020. There was nothing else on the market like it.
Jason, hands down, you're the best "thing" that happened to car enthusiasts everywhere since.. forever.
Love your channel, love the interaction between you and Derek and, while I realize that it's unfeasible, I could do with one PCF video every day.
Keep up the awesome work your team is doing you... Ryan Reynolds of the car world 😁
Yes... and way better than the discount Adam Sandler.
Hell yeah! Issimi is the actual motor enthusiast's high quality content.
THANK YOU! (Especially for the Ryan Reynolds part!)
It’s like he’s seen people with character and personality before, but can’t quite emulate them. Kind of a sociopath/pantomime vibe happening. I’m thinking his dad got him a job or something?
We have different opinions, and that is great! I’m glad you enjoy a thing out there in YT land.
Lane Keep Assist almost got me killed in my Accord when I was trying to avoid an idiot that swerved into my lane. Never acted so quick to turn that crap off.
And yes, if you cannot stay in yo lane or park by yourself, you should not be driving period
Yeah you're exaggerating here, it turns itself off automatically when you move the steering wheel. It wasn't at fault, it was the other driver. Get your facts right before blaming it.
Victor Estrada correction, it acted at the split moment when I least expected it, so yes it could’ve been a disaster. In any case I have no problems staying in my lane, as should any driver with a valid license shown be able to. Call me old school but it’s a feature I don’t care for.
Victor Estrada wow the hate in you is strong
When you have been driving for a long time it can prevent a crash from a driver falling a sleep
Mint. If you’re so tired that you have difficulty staying in a lane, you are just as dangerous as a intoxicated driver behind the wheel. If a lane keep assist feature makes people like this comfortable to take the wheel, who the hell are we saving?
My 1965 Corvette has hulk assisted steering.
So why is your truck super fast
@@johnbacon4997 lop
I wish my ‘73 International Scout on 33”s with lockers did, because the me-assisted steering it does have is just BARELY enough a lot of the time.
This was great, although I feel it could have been more insulting.
To me it's refreshing to see a variation in the level of REKT in these videos. Well played, as far as I'm concerned.
This ones less insulting because it doesn't even people installing dumb shit to their cars. Hahah
gwad!!! this was hilarious and so informative at the same time!!!! You have to do more of these asap. We need it. Badly!!!!
Thanks! More on the way!
l/__/
We should also be talking about how EPAS can use a piezoelectric force sensor rather than hydraulic's spool valve. So you can actually get EPAS to feel really good if it's tuned right.
You really got my goat when you showed the burning P1
@2:40 I laughed way harder than I should have. The British impersonation was spot on. But the billowing fire followed by the willhelm scream, priceless.
Funny, but now that I've looked it up, power steering fluid isn't flammable below 400 degrees F. A lot of other stuff in the car will catch fire before the power steering fluid, like wiring or plastic trim.
This is the type of channel that makes videos about topics I think about before going to sleep
it seems that repairing damaged e-powersteering units are more expensive than repairing damaged hydraulic ones. i think this is because e-powersteering units generally just get replaced as a whole instead of getting serviced.
My first Miata had manual steering. It had good feel, but because it was coupled with a slower ratio to make low speed maneuvering effort easier, it was always inferior to the power steering racks. Once I got my next Miata with quicker ratio power steering, I never looked back. My FR-S has electric power steering and I am convinced it has better feel than my old Miata's hydraulic rack.
Three of my favorite things: Jason, Beaker and The Mythbusters!
Additional hold-out, for now: Subaru, with the current model STI, it's a hydraulically assisted system that actually can be, with modification, installed into any old subaru you like
I'm in the final steps of adding Prius EPAS to my 64 Impala. Can't wait for the first drive
I switched from EPS to hydraulic 7 and 4 years ago and I really pleasent with that. With hydraulic car os more predictable ams controllable.
Many cars like the taurus 4th gen used the automatic transmission fluid as power steering fluid, though both stayed as separate systems of course.
Meaning no power steering fluid fires.
I worked in ZF TRW before as a EPS tuning engineer and also a big fan of Cammisa of course, it is totally true that EPS system in general has much less road feedback compared with hydraulic system, but on the other hand, with its sophisticated control parameter including assist, return, damping etc, a EPS system can actually produce a better chassis response vs steering torque build up relationship, that means vehicle response linearity is directly linked with steering torque build up and driver knows exactly where the vehicle will go, this is where the precision feeling came from, currently there are so many EPS tuning engineers out there doesn’t really understand how to produce this man and machine into one feeling by matching the response and torque build up, (because it takes a sensitive butt, a pair of sensitive hands and love of cars) some times they also added too much damping and return, which makes the steering feels artificial and like some very badly tuned brake pedals that requires a lot of modulation to find the ideal deceleration that you are looking for, so in the end a nicely tuned EPS system can actually feel better than most hydraulic system, apart from road feedback, because most hydraulic system you cannot tune it with vehicle speed dependency, but EPS could, and with hydraulic system I have to say having only plenty of road feedback doesn’t promise a precise steering, currently the best EPS tuning I personally reckon are the ones from 911GT3RS and GT86(only face lift, pre face lift had too much artificial return force), most new BMWs and their ThyssenKrupp system doesn’t really feel good, part of because it’s tuning the other it’s because they use a closed loop EPS logic that is even less sensitive to the input from road.
Holy run on sentence batman.
I'm with ya. The 991.2 GT3 RS is the best EPAS yet, and in terms of system response and weighting, it's perfect. Feedback? Well you said it yourself: "apart from road feedback." That's the only real negative left, but it's enough to ruin the experience in most cars. The pre-facelift 86 had no ability to self-center on the highway, either, and required constant corrections. I don't remember that on the facelift cars, but I also don't remember thinking it was one of the best.
David Beard English is not my native language, sorry for that :P
JasonCammisa Yes, with pre facelift 86 the high speed on center return is almost zero, but what affect the most for the driving feel is that the steering feels like a rubber band around off center due to too much active return force(this is a torque generated by the EPS motor to force the steering back to center and can be calibrated under difference vehicle speed, steering angle and some even with steering speed),when the pre facelift 86 enters the corner on the grip limit and the moment where the rear axle starts to lost grip, because of this strong active return force covered everything up, driver doesn’t sense a torque change in his hand, also when release the steering wheel at that moment , the steering doesn’t counter steer by itself like some hydraulic steering cars, because the caster force transmitted to the steering wheel helping the steering counter steer toward the end lock position is overwhelmed by this active return force pointing towards the center point, so strangely for small slides driver has to pull the steering wheel outwards by himself to counter steer(unless it’s a big slide), on a face lift one it feels much better, when the rear axle starts to lose grip I instantly know it and I just have to release my hands and the car correct it self and then I grab the wheel and smoothly pull it back to center, the whole process is just more enjoyable. Yeah I know the facelift 86 maybe not one of the best but it’s a big step forward compared with pre-face lift. Anyway It’s being a absolute honor to discuss those stuff with you, looking forward to more videos like this ;)
This man is a national treasure.
Learnt more about EPS than I learnt while working for a EPS company for 3 years
Abhishek Pathak you were never employee of the month there, were you?
The content on this channel is amazing. Keep it up!
Thanks!
My question is, how long are we going to have to wait for EPASs to be fine tuned to the point of natural-feeling steering like we used to have?
It took only 50 years for hydraulic steering - but 50 years from now we won't have steering wheels at all. We're pretty close in some cases (Porsche GT-cars)... good enough that the cars don't lose that much. We'll never get to the gritty feedback that hydraulic steering gave, but I suspect in 10 years everyone will have forgotten about that. Except those of us with old cars.
Until the S2000 and Mk5 GTI. Manufacturers already can make great feeling EPAS, they're just working on balancing most enthusiasts wanting to have feeling and most customers not.
Most cars on the road will be self-driving. People who want to drive their own cars will eventually have to pay extremely high insurance rates, since of course you're a "silly human" prone to accidents, and a machine is not.
Self-drive vehicles is where the direction appears to be headed - all the small, but noticeably gradual changes are all there hinting at it already - removing the responsibility and awareness of the driver to actually be engaged in driving.
I don't think it ever will. No one cares about steering feel anymore, no manufacturer would take the time to sell a low volume car anymore.
@@jonbar140 I don't think you've heard of Gordon Murray. The t.50 (the only successor to the McLaren f1) will have epas up to 10 mph, then completely unassisted above that. It also weighs 2200lbs which really helps :)
There will be only 100 made.
how did i just discover this channel, my life is now complete
I like Ford epas you feel everything 👌
Ahhh... missed these episodes!
Haha, the ending of the video, hilarious!
I'm fine with EPAS if its well tuned, my Mk7 Alltrack is pretty darned good at the helm; I could do without all the lane keep and autopilot stuff...crutches for bad drivers who should have their licenses taken away instead, plus as another commenter I saw noted, they do some squirrely, even dangerous things sometimes.
I'm pretty happy with the Mk7 EPAS tuning. It's a little light, and the Mk5 VWs had way more communicative EPAS. But overall, it has a good sense of straight ahead - until it's filtering out torque steer (which your 4Motion car won't have much of.) Then, it goes obviously, painfully, temporarily numb.
The EPAS in the MK6 was.quite numb, but it was far more accurate than any regular car with HPS I've driven - or maybe it's because I've never driven a regular car with HPS and low profile tires.
i could watch Jason give an informative hour long talk about how paint dries on a car lol
He is a master presenter.
You neglected something about McLaren's power steering. It is hydraulic but the pump is driven by an electric motor. It reminded me of one of the gearheads in my highschool. He had a setup he used at the track. He took off the normal belt and put one on that just ran the alternator from the crank and another belt that ran the water pump from a rewound drill motor. The power steering and AC compressor did not have belts at all in this configuration. But then he was the kind of crazy that ran solid lifters and a high rise intake on the street (it was at least a dual-plane though).
Great explanation as usual by JC! 😊
Your British accent is on point, Mr C.
I prefer the manual steering in 3 of my 4 cars. The one with hydraulic power steering I have seriously considered swapping in the OE optional manual rack. All of my cars are sub 2300 lbs.
Damn, what do you have? A bunch of 1960s sports cars?
These videos are so great!
Great video Jason!
Okay. Subbed only for this series. Love the adam sandler car guy.
My 1st car (1982 Dodge Charger) had arm strong steering and no power assist breaks.
Under powered, naturally asperated, 2 barrel carb.
But hey, it had great road feel. Lol
Please do more videos like this
Always learning!! Thanks
That was a really sharp explanation, thanks. Unsurprisingly, my 1989 Porsche 944t steered amazingly, while the Tesla 3 AWD I sold it for, makes me poop every time I go hot in to a corner. I could take the 944 into most corners attwice the posted limit for example and not worry. I would welcome a video from Issimi on how and why good hydraulic beats great electric.
Why did you do that? I don’t get it
Good video. Earned a new subscriber!!
My VA WRX has it and it feels fine. IMO the benefits outweigh the downsides.
The Gordon Murray T.50 only uses epas at parking lot speeds, then no assist above that...as pioneered on the Chevrolet Cobalt.
1:48: my excitement when I find that perfect speed where my wheels aren't trying to leave the party, cuz I'm too broke to have them balanced
Love it. Excellent as ever.
Its also expensive to fix! I have a 2013 Ram 1500 with 50,000 miles on it and my EPS system went out!, $3,147 dollars to get it fixed!,and FYI there is no recall on the 2013 models about this,and it wasn't under warranty!
My 2009 Peugeot laughs in your face. It has Electro-Hydraulic power steering. Benefits of both worlds ;-)
God bless McLaren 😂 I love them so much. YOU HOLD OUT B.
Thanks Jason
All valid points.
Period.
Though the numb feedback is not that bad, Imo.
9/10 it's the (eco) tyres which isolate everything.
You could have stopped at "period." Go drive a new 3-series on performance Michelins. Then, drive a Tesla Model 3 on the same tires - and you'll see it's not all down to the tires. :)
Thanks for making this video!
Ohhhh, that's why.
That McLaren was smokin hot!!
This was excellent
Nice Wilhelm Scream.
I like this bloke! Funny and informative 👍
Love your videos Jason
Your the best
F'n awesome! Keep it up.
When I was learning to drive my instructor had a Golf Mk4 (hydraulic stearing) and all was well and good, then on the day of my test he showed up in a Golf Mk7 (EPAS), first I thought cool I'll drive a newer car and then came the first corner... Jesus Christ I call that dangerous, I turned the wheel and eventually the car started going that way but I didn't feel a goddamn thing, I genuinely started breaking because it didn't feel right 😂
No, the MK5 had EPS, it was the MK4 that had hydraulic steering
@@ZZGTKING I must've missclicked but didn't read what I wrote before posting it, I was learning on a Mk4. I'll edit it now, thanks
So true about the numbness coming from a '16 Mustang GT owner 😭
When did Mustang switch to EPAS? Dutchy here
I’m in the same boat with my 2018 Camaro. Very numb and floaty
Yup, my swift has EPAS, it does have feel, but it take 5 years to learn to interpret that feel.
Huge round of applause for the editor of this video to keep it interesting for millennials.
I'll send him a telegram to thank him! :)
@@JasonCammisa Sure and you explained things like a boss.
the thing is older cars used gearbox oil as power steering fluid. is this as flammable?
Some manufacturers seem to do better than others I rented a Renault Megane and I still don't know if the wheels were connected to the steering wheel. The brakes had no feeling either. My 2011 focus has hydraulic.
My 12 year old car has it. Although there is a necessary reduction in feel, it is not absent entirely, claims to the contrary be damned. I can absolutely feel the difference in road surfaces, it is just not nearly as good. However I know exactly why my car has EPAS: the four cylinder engine was not mounted transversly. It is fore-and-aft like a straight six or eight. The ancilliary systems go where the steering column normally went. So they went with EPAS. Clever.
Thank you.
Now, if one were to rebuild a 56 Cadillac with modern tech, which electric power steering system should one use?
Kalepsis depends if you’re looking for steering feel that will burn you or modern tech tech that will crash you sir!
Dual Pinion EPAS is much better than single pinion. With dual pinion, the electric motor is on a second pinion gear on the passenger side of the rack. This allows for more steering feedback (less numb) into the steering wheel. Many cars, including but not limited to 2nd gen NSX use dual pinion rack.
The 370Z still as hydraulic power steering ;)
And i'm pretty sure you have to send warranty claims on it via telegraph too
@@haydenhale9066 LOL.
it's been the same car for a decade
Cause of 2 reasons, it's been the same model for decades, and 2, no one gives a shit about em
This was really nice short and sweet lol.
Oh Jason stop killing me! 😂😂
Now I’m considering trading my car for a hydraulic power steering one - just it can be nice when I’m cold in the winter 🥶 🔥🔥
I find my mk5 R32 well tuned, with this car I’m not missing the old hydraulic one. On other cars is a different story, basic Renault Clio is completely numb and you can’t feel anything from the road.
I find that too. On the mk7 it just feels perfect, and I can feel the road texture and feedback.
Do I drive in really crappy roads? Maybe, but it works wonders for me
I've become accustomed to EPS and it makes my Corvette and hellcat feel broken when I drive them vs my m340i and escape since its muting all communication from the front axle
I was so happy to see that you (what's your name?) were back! You've gone only to podcast format now and that makes me sad! Come on back to automotive multimedia entertainment, you are missed!
His name is Discount Adam Sandler, now you know.
I've driven compacts with manual steering. The feedback is SO much better than either hydraulic or electric PS that it's worth the PITA of parallel parking.
I'd gladly accept electric PS that drops out 100% above 10 MPH.
While the supply part is true, it is always the car company that tunes the steering wheel's feel, not the supplier.
It'd also be possible to tune the electric power steering, so that it'd send road vibrations through the wheel, but once again it is the car company that decides against it.
I think the steering in sport mode / race mode / hyperspace mode or whatever they call it these days, should send more feel through the steering wheel (not by making it rock hard) and disable all the steering compensation. This way we enthusiast could get a more responsive steering, but when you just want to travel, cruise around, then you can just leave it in normal / comfort mode and it'll do all the clever stuff like crosswind compensation, dampen bumps, lane keep assist etc.
We need more people to see this, and pick up on the fact that the steering wheel has a mechanical connection to the wheels in *every* picture. I keep meeting people that don't realize "power steering" is really short for "power *assisted* steering" and they think their steering wheel is just an input device.
...And these dumb ****s have licenses to drive. 🙄
Does the Mercedes-AMG GT have hydraulic power steering?
I was going to say that. At least the original GT did (it kept the system from the SLS), so I doubt they switched to EPAS during its life.
Steering feel is fantastic while carving corners. It's garbage when you're sitting in traffic on a banked curve. Every day, I was fighting the angle of a curve at 3mph in an Acura TSX with a clutch as heavy as the sun. ...BUT! It did drive great otherwise lol
I for one, welcome our electric power steering overlords. All hail EPAS!
1:55 You can’t just list a feature called “nibble filtration” and then leave us hanging. Subject of next video, please. 😄
He should have his own channel
We need to have Jason and Brian Cooley do reviews together, that's gonna be very interesting.
thanks!
Why not just combine to two like Mazda did, my Mazdaspeed 3 has electro-hydraulic steering. An electric motor runs the pump so no parisitic loss plus it's easy as hell to replace since it sits under the washer fluid bottle.
I actually enjoyed watching John Ritter with a beard deliver info that I already knew.
Hydraulic steering is one major reason I got the new STi over the base WRX.
GOOD MOVE!
I’m perfectly happy with my electric power steering.
I really enjoy these videos with Jason and the fun editing, but as a suggestion for additional content, I’d love a more in-depth video (maybe featuring “hyphen” instead of Cammisa just to change things up) on why some electric steering systems feel better than others. Why do people rave about the quality of the Porsche GT cars steering compared to others? I’ve heard positive reviews of the Mustang’s electric steering as well. But I’d love to know the technical reasons as to WHY they are better if for no other reason than to inform me as a buyer so I can support automakers that go that extra mile with steering feel. Vote with my money as it were.
These are conceived, written, and produced by me - nobody will ever "host" something I write. And though Derek is a walking encyclopedia, deep technical stuff isn't what he does. And while I agree that there's a lot more to this situation than I can fit in a 2-minute video, the feel comes down to literally hundreds of factors, from weight to tires to suspension design to alignment to software to the size of the assist motor to the rigidity of the front structure to the torque sensor. Nobody's going to watch a 3-hour-long video explaining that, and I'm not going to pay to produce a video nobody wants to watch. :)
@@JasonCammisa Thanks for the reply, and I meant no disrespect, I meant it only as uneducated feedback. And for the record, I would watch a 3-hour-long video of you explaining all the technical factors that go into achieving good steering feel :)
Why not just add a clutch engage at low speed and disengage at higher speed?
my s2000 has EPS- you'd never know. Its fine at autocross and on the track.
Why did you leave motortrend
Great damn videos
I dont want a computer correcting my input to the car. SURE DIDNT GO WELL FOR THE BOEING 737 MAX. STEERING COMPENSATION is MCAS in cars.
I love my hydraulic power steering. Eventually electyric will be just as good. You just need to give it time.
I love mt ES.Less drag on the engine and more room near the engine for mods.
What car has the best feedback-communication in its EPAS?
You forgot to mention LEAKS in hydraulic power steering. And the fact that if you lose all of the fluid, or the pump fails, you're left with an almost impossible to steer car! Electric power steering makes much more sense. And it can be dialed in to let more feedback from the road. It's just that most engineers haven't figured out how to do that, yet.
Honestly If I had the cash I'd take a 570S over a GTR. The way a car feels when you turn the wheel and what you can feel through it is really important to me.
Electrically assisted powers steering is great an all but wait until the motor fails. The extra drag of the motor make it almost impossible to steer the car. I would say even more then hydraulic steering failing. 2014 chevy SS.
There's no reason electric power steering should be any more numb than hydrolic. It's all about how it's tuned. They both do the same thing, assist your input with more power. There's no reason the motor can't have less reaction torque to make you feel more weight of the rack and the vibrations coming up from the tires. There are already cars that people rave about having good feel with electric ps. The real problem is there's just not enough customers that care enough to make it a deal breaker. So like the man said. If the common suppliers for steering systems aren't making systems with good feel options none of the manufacturers will have them.
You need to talk how expensive it can be to fix a Electric powers ones
Does that mean it's impossible for hydraulic systems to have active safety features, or just complicated/expensive to develop?
Should be more difficult and at the end still be supported by an electric motor.
Nothing's impossible. But putting an electric motor onto a hydraulic system that would help turn the wheel is... overcomplicated at best, nuts at worst. So we won't be seeing that.
The 3 dislikes were from nimrods that can’t parallel park their car 🤣