What if the Nationalists won the Chinese Civil War? | Alt History
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ก.ค. 2023
- An alternate history of China in which Chiang Kai-shek's nationalists defeat the communists in the Chinese Civil War and go on to rule China as a capitalist nation!
If you want a video explaining the logic behind the scenario tell me in the comments down below!
Also a massive thanks to everyone for 2,000 subs!
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I think China in this timeline will operate like Singapore. A capitalist country with a strange political limbo between authoritarianism and democracy. Elections in China will serve as a "popularity polls". We can look at Singapore's election as an example. Every time the PAP received 50 percent of votes during an election, it means that the people are not satisfied with the PAP's actions. If the PAP received more than 50 percent then the people are satisfied. I can see Kuomintang do the same thing in China in this timeline.
Interesting, I've never heard about how Singapore's elections work, that might actually fit this version of China.
Good point, and considering the vastness and variety of China, maybe it would be somehow share some feature with today's Russia. Chiang Kai-shek probably would rule China like Putin does now.
Probably, but the KMT's economic situation would be different than Singapore. ROC China will probably spend more money on military and infrastructures like PRC is doing now, and have tense relations between US and India, since they see China as strong potential competitor and enemy. But for other democratic countries, there will be good relations with China, since they see China as a good political leader and do not want to join in the competition between US and China.
I would say the personality cult of Chiang Kai Shek, as seen in OTL Taiwan, would have driven an alternative ROC to be more like Sukarno's Indonesia.
@@thejusticechannel13, and what happened to Sukarno's Indonesia?
There is one major fault in this, and that is relations with Japan, China and South Korea won't have easily forgiven Japan for it's warcrimes, even today, South Korea still holds resentment, much as the rest of South Asia
The resentment is mainly cultural and among older people. Japanese and Korean economies are greatly intertwined by this point, the difference being that in the Kuomingtan timeline, there would be less of a need for military cooperation as North Korea and the CCP would exist as opposing players.
Why would South Asia hate Japan? If anything, they will hate the British more than the Japanese.
Jiang let it go long time ago. There's even a shinto in Japan dedicated to Jiang for forgiving Japan's war atrocity
It wouldn’t be as bad as it’s now.
South Asia? You mean east?
north vietnam would probably fall. part of the reason the us never invaded north vietnam and stuck to fighting guerrillas was because they didnt want a repeat of the korean war where china comes in and pushes them back, so theyd probably invade and the south would win
Quite possibly, granted the Chinese invaded the northern part of Vietnam in the late 70's/early 80's and lost (of course the US was more powerful than China at that point, so they might well have succeeded.
@@patrioticbritishmapper8352 Considering China invaded and failed in North Vietnam in the late 1970s/early 1980s? Is your history a figment of your own imagination? China clearly won a big victory and retreated after destroying Vietnam's industrial facilities. You actually think it was just a failure?
@@patrioticbritishmapper8352 in a world were Vietnam is south and no dispute in WPS in Philippines
@@mememanbehindtheshadows546There would still be dispute in the South China Sea. Remember that several nations lay claimants to the area, including the Republic of China
@@harchiehirondo8156 yeah i know but i think we could handle them compared to the ccp because were both democratic, idk my opinion
Fun fact, the KMT was basically supposed to go through three phases as proposed by Dr. Sun Yat Sen, it’s founder. First, they actually needed to rule china. Then, political tutelage in order to get the people on board with democracy. And finally, the transition into democratic practices. And this all did happen in the government in exile on Formosa and its other islands. Long live the Republic of China! 🇹🇼
Chiang Kai Sek screwed everything up. If it were up to him, the principles of the people would never be fulfilled and the Kuomintang would not be a useful instrument to launch a British/American style democracy like Sun Yat Sen wanted, however a tool to repress and control the people.
@@landon8214 True, Chiang also didn't remove corruption from his government nor replace incompetant generals
"Then, political tutelage in order to get the people on board with democracy" That's not what occurred in Taiwan at all. People in Taiwan already wanted democracy. The KMT brutally suppressed democratic uprisings and jailed and executed dissidents until it was no longer able to withstand democratic pressure and had to finally relent and allow democratic reforms. Taiwan became democratic in spite of, not because of the KMT.
Lmao if this moron ran china it be exactly like India poor corrupt shit
@@Monblusm-qz4wm But it was still Chiang's son, a KMT member, which modernized both Taiwan's economy and its politics. They could have forcibly hung onto power like North Korea, but they did choose to relent and democratize, and quite quickly also!!
Very good job, I usually disagree with what a lot of people say in a nationalist victory, but I think you did it a lot of justice, only thing I disagree with is north Vietnam existing, only reason the USA didn’t invade the north was because they were afraid a Korean War would happen again, but with China not being a threat but possibly being willing to help America, I doubt north Vietnam would’ve existed, but good job overall!
But USA can’t invade Vietnam
This might be the timeline that China and US relation become worse, China want Vietnam to be controlled by China, but US want it to be controlled by US.
Most people in Vietnam didnt support the south, Vietcong would have remained and the South probably still would have lost.
@@Mayor912 the guerilla war of the Vietcong relied heavily on resources from the north from the Ho Chi Minh trail, the guerillas would be a lot weaker without north Vietnam existing, and with the war going very well Americans would likely be a lot less against the war than in our timeline, plus if the north ever attempted to take out the south or it looks like America was losing the guerilla war, which I doubt because of above stated supply issues, the Republic of China would’ve likely invaded to prevent the spread of communism and discourage communist guerillas in their own territory, any way you put it I don’t see the resistance lasting long without the north and with having the anti communist Americans sticking around longer and the Republic of China always having a threat of intervention
@@darkrossboss what about ussr
I like your videos, even with your simple style of mapping I enjoy how you are creating scenarios that nobody else is doing! Great Job!
Thanks glad you enjoy them, I hope I can keep creating scenarios that you enjoy.
Nice video, while I do like these smaller and less mind-boggling, world ending, ball shattering, backflipping scenarios, I would love for you to go into more detail on bigger scenarios like the American Revolution fails, or Germany wins WW1, and see your take on those. Your channel is criminally underrated and more should definitely check you out. Keep up the good work.
Thanks, that means a lot, and don't worry I intend to cover all those scenarios.
This comment was ball shattering, in a more literal sense than you'd originally think.
Simple, quick, and with almost to no mistakes that distort the timeline. BRAVO.
Honeslty this one was super well made! You earned yourself a new sub.
Thanks!
This has to be my favourite video and can I say if your 'What if the whites won the Russian civil war' video was popular I can only imagine how much attention this will get, I cannot seem to see any problems and I enjoyed every second- Congrats on 2k!
Thanks, really happy that you liked it.
@@patrioticbritishmapper8352you forgot to mention that Nationalist fought for 1 party sistem,so this wouldent be CCP,rather NRC
@@jokekopter2509If possible, don't have a one party system, a dominant party is more suitable.
@@adolftarigan4732 NRC had no elections until 1960,when they were on Taiwan,they only introduced elections to get funding from Americans.
As a Chinese, i am grateful my country didn’t lose in the chinese civil war
S-rank video my man, good stuff. I’ve got a couple ideas if any of them might interest you:
• What if East Prussia/Kaliningrad was never Russified? Maybe instead of being an oblast of Russia, it becomes the “Prussian Soviet Socialist Republic.”
• What if Gorbachev’s reforms saved the USSR? He didn’t want the union to collapse, he hoped to transition the country from communism to democratic-socialism, with free and direct elections.
• What if Roman Britain survived as a rump state of the Western Empire?
• What if the 2nd Mexican Empire survived?
Glad you liked it, those ideas all sound cool, A reformed USSR would certainly be interesting, and considering current world events, it would've had a massive effect on history. The 2nd Mexican Empire was the one set up by the French and Austrians right?
@@patrioticbritishmapper8352 Yeah, it would’ve been led by Franz Joseph’s brother, Maximillian (the same man rumored to be the bastard son of Napoleon II, though those rumors weren’t taken seriously.) He was pretty liberal for his time and seemed to want to genuinely help Mexico but never got the chance. As well, his plan for succession was to adopt Prince Augustine II, the head of the House of Iturbide (reigning house of the First Empire,) and give the Mexican throne back to them after he’d pass. Of course, if he lives as long as his brother did, that wouldn’t happen until like the 1910’s, but who knows 😂
@@morsecode980 Interesting, never heard about the Napoleon II rumours before, and good point, if he had a similar lifespan to his brother, Augustine is going to be waiting a long time to take the throne.
Did Gorbachev not want the collapse of the Soviet Union? At least you would have watched his interview after the collapse of the USSR)
@@user-ve4yz6zm9k His opinions may have changed afterwards, but when he was in office, no. He wanted to keep the Soviet Union running but under a new, more democratic government.
As a Chinese, I am always dreaming how good it is if this were true...
Keep dreaming lil bro
womp womp
if you hate China so much, go to America
Heard it’s more free, too free…
coping mechanism
@@shawnv123well atleast he honest
-100000000000000 social credit
One problem is you don’t have a deep understanding to the pre-1949 economy. Chiang did exactly the same as Mao on land reforms due to defeat. If Chiang won, there would be strong interest group from landlords to oppose land reform. Land reform is the reason for China’s agricultural growth. With agricultural growth, China can accumulate resources for light industries to grow. Without land reform. Everything about economy growth will be like today’s India.
That's also better than CCP now. The living standards of ordinary people in CCP are like those in Africa
@@mengshiya2008 the official data for China's living standard today is between Malaysia and Russia
@@mengshiya2008 like Africa? Have you ever been to Africa?
@@user-lu7bx7um2q 您不瞭解共產黨，他們0.2％的共產黨人佔據著90％的財富。20％的人是中產，用著8％的資源，過著比較富足的生活。剩下80％的人去爭取2％的社會資源，月收入根本無法支撐穩定的生活，這不是非洲是什麼？共產黨這個大外宣的話你們老外也信嗎？
@@user-lu7bx7um2q 共產黨掌握著80％的社會資源，中產和富人佔據18％資源，數億的一般人去爭取2％的社會資源艱難渡日，這不是非洲嗎？您是中國人還是我是中國人？
I think if ROC rule continues on mainland, Chiang would only run for two terms due to the vast number of political factions that exist within the KMT, and he wouldn’t have the power to pass the presidency down to his son
That is entirely possible.
I personally believe that the Chinese would have annexed Mongolia after the fall of the USSR. In our time, the ROC did not even recognize Mongolia until 2007, and even today (theoretically) still claims the country. Without the risk of a response from the USSR, the Chinese would have taken Mongolia very easily, due to the fact the Chinese army would probably be larger than Mongolia's entire population.
actually roc recognized mongolia's independence in 1946.that the reason why communist couldn't get it back.
not possible since russia is still there.
@@user-le2it8xy8e True but they rescinded the recognition. In 1955 they even vetoed allowing Mongolia into the UN on account of it not being a country but a rebellious province of China, in their view.
@@Monblusm-qz4wmno both the US and the USSR have officially recognized independent Mongolia up at that point
Genghis khan is not pleased with this statement😂
I would like to correct you some geopolitical mistakes:
1- if Nationalist China won, the Korean war wouldn't happen because in real life it already started with a Maoist promise that China got Korea's back. Adding the fact that the regional powers aren't on the communist side unlike what happened in real life.
2- if the Korean war started like you said, there won't be a UN force deployed to help the South. Because if you remember the UN force was deployed because of a decision of the UN security council. And the decision was able to avoid Soviet veto because the Soviets were boycotting UN security council meetings under the policy of vacant seat in order to force UN to recognise communist China as the real China and permanent member of the security council. If Nationalist China did already win and Korean war happened, the Soviets wouldn't be boycotting the council's meetings therefore when the decision for a UN force to help the South would be put forward, it wouldn't pass, because of Soviet veto. Any help to the South would only come from individual intervention by other countries, not UN
On the UN thing you make a good point. If I ever remake this I'll change it from UN to "western allies" or something along those lines, since as you quite rightly pointed out, the Soviets would be able to use their veto in this world.
US would probably still invade, probably with a smaller coalitio, maybe US, Canada, South Korea, and possibly Australia
Yeah, also because Stalin dies in 1953, even if Kim wanted to attack the south, if he saw the KMT winning and just delayed his plans for a few years Stalin could be dead and Kim would never invade the south, and I doubt the south would attack the north, so the chances of a Korean War are low.
You are wrong if a bill can’t be passed in the security council because of the actions of the permanent member it would go to the general assembly where the soviets wouldn’t be able to intervene
@@patrioticbritishmapper8352 Well , the point was the Korean War wouldn't have happened, Kim wouldn't have enough confidence to attack South Korea, as the ROC would have attacked Kim in the back; and South Korea would not have attacked the North
Harry Truman! Give me back a free China!
The KMT government could never achieve the kind of achievements imagined in the second half of the video, because the party itself was a factional compromise, which would have led directly to an incomplete land policy and class reorganization, and the continuation of the old feudal landlords and new political clans (which still exist in Taiwan today, especially in the KMT).
And factions with foreign power support will continue to exist in the KMT, pushing the goals of their respective patrons in the direction of government policy. The government's control over ethnic minorities and border areas would be looser, and separatism would remain a problem.
So under this timeline, it is reasonable to assume that China will not be the 2nd powerful country but more like India in our world, a slightly stronger India maybe.
I think you should learn about the dangguo (黨國) principle, invented by sun yat-sen it denotes three steps towards democratic China, first would be a revolution and the founding of the state, and second would be political tutelage, probably the most famous of the steps, where everything would be consolidated for the final step, democratization, the only reason why the third step wasn't achieved during Chiang's rule was due to his hesitance and commitment to completing it, in this timeline, china would most certainly be democratic as dangguo would be completed, this is also backed up by some of the first and for now last elections in china during the 4 years after japan surrendered and before the communists took control
Thank you for making this Video The ROC is my fav country
You're welcome, glad you liked it.
@@patrioticbritishmapper8352 +1 sub
I'm not sure if Vietnam would have been split to be honest. If South East Asia is under Chinese control then the KMT would have send troops to North. They already sent troops to Indochina a few years before. But yeah A KMT led China would have been a unitary One Party State. At the very least they would have been more open to the west. I do think there is a chance that Tibet or East Turkestan could have been independent nations. The whole South East Asia would have been so different. At the very least we have three monarchies: Laos, Cambodia, and Thailand. The current crisis in Burma could have been avoided due to the KMT fighting against the communists in the nation. No purge of communists in Indonesia due to the Nationalists winning. Hong Kong and Macau might return to China's influence a few years earlier.
In this timeline China would have been seen as liberators against communists and so they would have much more influence in East and South East Asia. There would have been more pressure from Japan to apologize for all the war crimes they committed during WW2. Mongolia probably leans more to China than Russia as well. However, I do think this version of China would still be hostile due to the KMT wanting to rewrite the century of humiliation. I do think more foreign nations would be open to working with them since they wouldn't be as hostile when compared to the CCP. When it comes to culture and media we would see the spread of Chinese Culture globally. Similar to how Japan is with Manga and Anime. Korea with K-POP and Dramas. I could see China spreading it's ideals and traditions so maybe more Chinese folk religions being spread globally. Christianity would play more of an impact in the nation since the KMT was open to religion as well.
Lastly I do think China would just be good as it is in the Olympics like it is right now with the CCP in charge. Baseball and Soccer would probably be the most popular sports in the nation. I could see China's baseball league competing with the MLB due to how large the nation is. China would be better in soccer too and we probably see them hosting a world cup in the future.
I agree with you on most of this, especially the culture part, the world in this timeline would certainly have more Chinese cultural influence. I also think Vietnam would probably end up unified at some point. Only thing I'd disagree on is Tibet and Hong Kong and Macau, as I don't see any reason for China to rush getting them back, the lease ran out in 1997 and 1999 respectively, all China has to do is wait.
excellent comment,
but Republic of China/KMT is overestimated,
my grandfather was a veteran if KMT army,
basically it is a corrupted, weak, indecisive, opportunist and incompetent regime,
it can't really reunite China, then make the sacrifice to industrialize it,
under KMT, China may lose mamy territories, such as Xinjiang, Tibet.. so it will be much more inoffensive or cute for its neighbors,
some littoral provinces may become independent, become richer and freer, but the majority of Inner China will remain poor, no industrialized, without 5 G and high speed train network,
to be honest, more Chinese prefer be disliked or hated as the sole worthy opponent of the US than be liked as a cute Asian mascot,
Tibet and ET will be absorbed.
great quality. love it
Thanks.
This was a great video and I can tell it was well researched!
Thanks, took some time, I'd never heard of Chiang Ching-kuo before so I had to do a lot of research on him, especially when I realised he was essentially China's Deng Xiaoping. Glad you enjoyed it.
The only reason I hate Japan is
They were responsible in letting the communists win, they killed a lot of the nationalists troops and supported the communists, after the war, Mao thanked Japan a lot for helping him. Communism is so bloody annoying in my honest opinion.
They were responsible for the Korean Peninsula in being split in half with a North Korea under communism.
They almost ended up splitting their own peninsula just like North Korea with the northern Japan under communism.
They still refuse to admit their war crimes,
either way, Newer generations of Hong Kong and Taiwanese locals generally prefer Japan over China nowadays.
World would be a lot more peaceful if Japan had never invaded us or it’s neighbours.
Older generations like my grandma would prefer to go to Afghanistan than Japan.
Either way we can’t change our history.
But I still love Japan and want to visit it one day, it’s an extremely well developed country just like South Korea and China.
I agree except the first part.
Both the communists and the nationalists were horribly treated by the Japanese.
@@uhhh_idkwhattoputhereyup
the communists you’re talking about are living better lives than American.
@@uhhh_idkwhattoputhereyes. But strategically it weakens KMT so it could not effectively wipe out the CCP in 1946.
@@biwnzixebrxb4786the KMT is unpopular and weak in the first place, if they popular enough, CCP shouldn’t have any stage in China.
Like most of the Allies countries are in ruins after WW2, but no one else became too weak and loose to gorilla fighters.
as a chinese, i wish i am lived in this timeline
As a Vietnamese Anti Communist, i Wish i am Lived in this timeline too. I love republic of Vietnam..
You're out of China I hope?
But in fact, KMT is also dictatorial, Chiang Kai Shek is even worse. Taiwan is kind of democratic today has nothing to do with KMT. Just ask Taiwanese what they have done there. CCP did many things wrong but still better than Chiang’s government. His wife dared to ask USA to nuke mainland!!
I d say if China really wants democratization, we have to be culturally open. Walls will stop Chinese people from learning what freedom and democracy look like
-100000 social credit 🗿
Not bad.. good work :)
I feel like this china would be so much better since it would save the lives of many and poverty would be much less. It would also improve the lives of people in many areas around the world.
I know we are talking about impossibilities because the events have already happened, but the Nationalists could've easily participated in the Korean war for example. There certainly could of been enough animosity against the west and what they had done to China previously that they might not of taken kindly to the UN forces being right on their doorstep and Korea had been under Chinese influence for centuries previously so they could of felt that they should be the ones having the major say in Korean or even Vietnamese affairs and not the Europeans or the US.
But still it's fun to play around with these what ifs.
Vietnam in the late 60's I agree, China would take its own path, but in 1950, they'd let the UN do it, main reason being that it'd be getting rid of a potentially hostile neighbour (one that might be harbouring Chinese communist rebels). Anyways, with Korea united it probably would fall under Chinese influence since there's no ideological issues between Korea and China in this world. But in the end you're right, it's simply a what if.
@@patrioticbritishmapper8352 hmm maybe the influx of the Chinese communist fighters could've given North Korea the edge over the South with their initial push.
The soviets and Chinese nationalists did have a loose alliance against the Japanese, so sometimes the geopolitical factors overrides the ideologies. Again I know its what ifs and even if we were in the past it is impossible to predict the future
Anyways your content is interesting enough for my brain to think about such things in a bit more detail than I normally would, so I have subscribed. Keep up the good work. 😊
@vandalcreed Keep in mind that the UN/USA/ROK force was better armed with more men.
@@landon8214 hmm the ROK certainly got their butts whooped in the initial stages of the war and I wouldn't hesitate to say that they were saved by the US/UN. 😊
Just wondering, what is the background music at the beginning of the video and for the first few minutes.
I like that you didnt copy and paste taiwans history over this and called a day, the KMT would still rule the country to this day, although they would be alot more palatable to the west, cuz you know they arent communist
You are delusional. The West (US) would not allow any peer competitors whether they are democratic or communist. A clear example was the japan bashing in the US during the 1980s. As soon as japan came close to the US economy they ramped up their propaganda against japan (japanese stealing our jobs and destroying our motor industry etc).
nice video. can you do an unrealistic version of what if the franco-british union formed?
Thanks, and yeah, I'm going to make the unrealistic version.
Thank you from R.O.C❤
來自中華民國的感謝❤
One mistake that might have been intentional, but I will mention anyways. The United States didn’t invade North Vietnam due to fears of China interfering like they did in Korea. Other than that great video.
Thanks, it was kind of intentional, but now I'd probably change it.
Welcome back you should make What if the American Revolution never happened and instead Britain actually allows the 13 colonies to have more representation so the timeline completely removes existence of the USA. And instead the British Empire continues to grow but this time with the inclusion of the Dominion of North America. Giving the British Empire vast industrial might and Man Power.
Great video hope to see more vids soon.
Thanks, glad you liked it, No American revolution is interesting, I wonder if Canada would be part of the Dominion of North America or whether it would be separate? Thanks for the suggestion.
@@patrioticbritishmapper8352 it would be interesting if Canada and the 13 colonies would eventually merge together to form the dominion of North America taking the territories of the entire modern day USA and Canada. The Seeds for the French Revolution were their long before the American revolution so the French Revolution still happens. Later down the line world war 1 would be severely impacted due to Britain having such an enormous territory full of industrial might and vast manpower. Germany could loose WW1 much sooner.
From Burma's perspective:
- The internal conflict would become much less worse (no KMT troops in Burma's territory, communist rebels would not get any support from the CCP)
- The China-Burma border could change
Also for vietnam, remember that even in 1946, Chiang sent troops to vietnam to help the Vietnamese KMT fight the French. With 20 more years of strengthening china back home, he’d def at least send token aid to the south
Probably A United Indochina Under A KMT In Indochina Would Happen In 1951, No Vietnam War But Probably The USSR And Cuba Finance Communist Guerrillas In The 1960s In Asia Like The Situation In Latinamerica In The 1970s
The USA Probably Will Send Troops To Indochina And Other Allies In Asia In This Situation
Great video
Thanks!
To be honest, if KMT got the power, China could lose Manchuria and Xinjiang for all. It would still be the division of China with Soviet China in the North.
Something to add to this alternative history of China is that the demographic collapse will be less extreme compared to our modern Mainland China since it is less likely that a 1 child policy will be enacted which absolutely butchered current Mainland China. So it could look similar to America and other Westernized countries.
Good point, I toyed with including that, I just wasn't too sure what the Nationalists would've done instead, maybe they'd have gone for a population control method more like that of India? Regardless, China would a much larger, much younger population than it does today.
What if Bavaria was able to form the Third German state in opposition to Austria and Prussia is kinda a neat idea since they were closer to the French culturally than the Prussians when it came to ideas
Interesting idea, I'll get it made.
This was a one of the best timelines i have seen about China. I do think that the part about Hong Kong was a bit inaccurate however. The way of life in Hong Kong would be very similar to China in this timeline as China is now capitalist, Chinese and mostly democratic. Hong Kong will still retain most if not all of its autonomy as a city state within China, but the "one country, two systems" was only to prevent a complete communist takeover of Hong Kong.
BROTHER CHINA IS ALREADY CAPİTALIST
@@devceropeolearw5441 look at this commie defending the ccp lol
-99999999 social credits.
The ROC/Taiwan still claims Mongolia as a part of its territory and much more. Those may continue to cause distributes I think
What if Franklin D. Roosevelt had lived through his fourth term and Winston Churchill won the 1945 election but put them in one video.
Interesting concept, I'll see if I can do it.
Also FDR was willing to help Ho Chi Minh help vietnam gain independence you should add that because ho chi minh wasnt fully on board with Mao and Kim at all and he was kicked out of the Communist international because he was accused of being too nationalistic than being far left and he was willing to give the US ideals another shot and had a constitution similar to the US but he dropped it the mintue he found out that the US was not going to help them end french colonial rule in vietnam and the Atlantic charter that had vietnam's name in it was gone. @patrioticbritishmapper8352
nice vid,can u make ' what if ussr won the cold war' ?
China not becoming red in '49 is an alternate dimension. Communism would have had limited impact for the rest of Asia post 1950. It's fair to say that Communism became prominent in Asia post '45 because of 2 factors:1. Mao's massive victory 2. Ending of European colonialism. How would the USSR support Vietnam etc faced with a hostile China under President Chiang? Best bet is that the Communist movement would continue to bubble even if Mao was "defeated " by '49. The living conditions for everyday Chinese under the Nationalists were highly conducive to Communist promises
Probably After The Revolution In Cuba, Mao Would Prepare Guerillas In The USSR And Cuba To Do Terrorism In All Asian Continent And The Rest Of Third World, The Communist Bloc Is United, Albania and Yugoslavia Never broke With The USSR, The Berlin Falls in 1989 And The Soviet Union Collapse In 1991
China would probably be as democratic as Russia, and pretty much just todays China but forwarded 20- 40 years
Population:1.1 billion people
GDP:35 trillion USD
Shanghai metropolitan area with 38 million people and Canton metropolitan area with 32 million people and so on
30 super companies same as Sony,Samsung,Tsmc,Hyundai,Mitsubishi,SK hynix,Nikon,IHI and so on
Allies:Korea,Japan,South Vietnam,Philipine,Malaysia,Thailand,USA
Accounts for half of global luxury consumption
500 million cars
over 9000 mainline passenger aircrafts
get democratic in 1996
This is so cool!
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it.
Good video keep up the good also make what if Mexico join the axis in ww2
Thanks, will do!
@@patrioticbritishmapper8352your welcome also you should do what if nationalist China won again but this time the communist party China stay in Manchuria like a reverse Taiwan if you want
@@KobeRogers-vw8nx cool idea
@@patrioticbritishmapper8352 yup
I'm pretty sure, even with a democratic China of today it would still impose the 9 dash line on the South China Sea.
It wouldn't impose the **nine-dash line**. Instead it would impose the **eleven-dash line**
I think the South would of won the Vietnam War in this timeline as the US does not fear Chinese intervention from an invasion upwards.
Tbh, this timeline makes China more reliant on US aid instead of standing independently just like the current ROC. However, it makes me happy to see a unified China instead of one nationality separated by two ideology.
Alternate History: Hong Kong protest for college credits 😂
This would be the only way Taiwan would be united with the mainland.
Councillor Xi Jinping: "There is another."
Realistically, China following the second sino japanese war was extremely weak, becoming ideologically divided, as warlords and people found the Kuomintang and the Republicans very unpopular. I believe that following the japanese defeat, China would enter another warlord period.
He's back after 2 months
I'm hoping to get a more consistent upload schedule.
There’s no if for whatever happened. History is history, pointless to imagine whatever never happened.
Actually there is but as the old saying goes asking "what if" when it comes to history always infuriates the Whigs, Marxists and Determinists and anyone who believes that some kind of preordained Destiny or Fate or Providence determines human existence.
Cope and seathe.
very underrated
If the Japanese weren’t there then they probably would’ve
As an Asian..ahh too bad that didn’t happen.
Beautiful Timeline! Wait, what if made in Republic Of China? Is it very good quarily? and I hope they built Shanghai Tower maybe....
I Support The Chinese Nationalist Party Beacause The Nationalist Was Helping The Russian Refugees From The Soviet Union
So I guess no Zhong Xina and Maoist Chinese songs in this timelime.
No Tianamen memes, no social credit memes and no winnie the pooh memes
No, We'll sadly have to find another celebrity to make a Chinese politician meme name.
@@konstantin432 instead of tiananmen deterrent in nanjing may have happened. Instead of Winnie the Pooh there will be Chiang Kai shrek😂
Hi I' m from china, thank you for...oh my door bell just rang, let me che
lmfao
The video itself is pretty good, but one part of it that I didn't understand is the annexation of Tibet, since China and Tibet had signed a non-agression pact after numerous invasions of Tibet by China, Britain would most likely left a angry note at China for not respecting the non-agression pact which Britain had forcefully made them sign.
Thanks, reason for the annexation of Tibet is that both the Nationalists or the Communists claimed that Mongolia was a rightful part of China, in otl Chiang Kai Shek never did anything about it since he was too busy dealing with the civil war and the Japanese invasion, hence why Mao in otl annexed Tibet very soon after the civil war ended, as he now had no distractions. I agree with you on Britain leaving an angry note though.
After the army was wiped out by PLA, the Tibetan theocratic government was forced to agree to an autonomous region as part of China and signed an agreement. The Tibetan government has only 8000 troops, and they have no chance of independence in the face of CCP or KMT.
@@patrioticbritishmapper8352tibet tried expanding in the 30s but got thrashed by warlords. Brits had to help tibet out and call for ceasefire. If not they would have gotten obliterated further.
I think that North-Vietnam would fall and China would probably incorporate Mongolia (after the Cold War), because they didn’t recognise Mongolia.
Mongolia had insanely close ties with the Soviet they even applied to join USSR. No way Soviet let it happen
Maybe it happens after USSR collapse
2:08 I don't think relations with Japan would improve after a Nationalist victory, if anything they would be worse. It's not like this scenario erases the after-effects of the Second World War and there would likely be resentment over Japan's invasion. Particularly if the US invests less into Japan as a bulwark against Chinese communism, or if it invests equally in both.
After they are not imperialist anymore.
Honesty, i doubt vietnam would last without china, i mean, the Chinese did heavily equip the Vietnamese and train them. Also the soviets can't really support the Vietnamese because china wouldn't allow soviet equipment through, and they can't go through the sea, due to a naval and air blockade. Vietnam would likely collapse due to the overwhelming air superiority and the fact that they dont have equipment.
Fair enough
Interesting😂 Actually I've imagined it for times.
Some scenarios I recommend:
>I think Hsieh Tung Min will succeed Chiang Ching Kuo in this timeline after his death, then next election he's succeeded by former vice president Lien Chan and then Ma Ying Jeou came to power, today president would be Eric Chu who would be born in Zhejiang since his parents never fled to Taiwan after the civil war
>Macau handed back in 1999 and retaining "one country, two systems" without much controversies
>Guangzhouwan also given a "one country, two systems" like autonomy after returned by the French Empire
>DPP and TPP will probably still exist as localist party within Taiwan; autonomous regions like Hong Kong, Macau, Xinjiang, and Tibet will also have localist party allowed to exist freely
Well, within this timelime, traditional chinese culture and architecture would be well preserved by the KMT government. Famine and political crackdowns would still occur but on a smaller scale in comparison to Maoist China in our timeline. President Chiang Chin Kuo, would be a pragmatic reformist just like Deng xiaoping, and he would be more tolerant and open towards political reforms and workers rights. The Republic of China would be just like Singapore, a single party state with a capitalist open economy.
You summed it up pretty well there.
This feels like self medicated copium
Don't like it? Make your own version then.
@@patrioticbritishmapper8352 Don't need to, I ain't coping
> 1960: China would be friends with Korea and Japan
Korea maybe. But the horrors of Imperial Japans invasion of China would still be very fresh. I think it would be an uneasy trade alliance at best unless Japan is willing to compensate China in this timeline then maybe reconciliation will go a lot smoother.
Also, Im not convinced that SE Asia would go communist if it failed in China. Certainly would be a pickle if Vietnam did get split in two instead of Korea but with China being the largest sphere of influence in East Asia, then its unlikely that communism would never have gotten to that part of the world.
This is clearly a better ending for every single country in the world, including China itself.
Actually not for the US. We might see something similar with India vs USA in the future power competition.
no it isn't
educate yourself better than USA propaganda newspapers.
I think there is a few things that I think I would have changed
1 I think that Chiang Kai-shek would have tried to a democratically reform probably by the 60s
2 I think the South backed by the United States would have won the war the only reason America did not invade the north was because of China as the Americans remembered what happened in Korea so without a communist victory in China I think the USA would have invaded and probably would have won in North Vietnam.
But other than it is a very great video
Thanks for your comment, on Vietnam I'd generally agree, its quite possible the South wins.
maybe their new leader lee teng-hui, cause native taiwanese can still join KMT, and lee teng-hui may still have more time to be a president in china, and then it's Ma Ying-jeou, the next can be Lai Ching-te.
Blessed timeline
Shame this didnt happen would love to be friends with china😢🇹🇼
@@iloveevil86 Ask the governments
I think that Soviet empire will collapse earlier than 1991, due to push of Nato, and nationalist Asia. If China ruled by KMT it would suprass US economy today. Because Nationalist China is more open to capitalism and more global economical system like todays Taiwan. But I see some of your video that the Soviet allies exist in Africa and other continenet. Well the US and other Anglo nations wont need to war effort for in Vietnam because on that scenairo the all Vietnam will be same as South Vietnam. So that US would give its effort to take Cuba and other Communist countries in Africa with the help of Nationalist China so that maybe western lands of Africa still exist due to lack of Soviet weapon and equipment support. But after the Cold war, as I said China and other Asian countries would be more dominant in the world with their better economy and technology, so this would threat to the NATO and other US allies.
You should make an alternate history for Zimbabwe Rhodesia?
Great idea, I've been wanting on doing one about that for a while.
@@patrioticbritishmapper8352 Great! The main idea is the Internal Settlement of Rhodesia was accepted worlwide.
My heart goes out to the Republic of China (now Taiwan). It didn’t seem needed then, but I so wish we had helped the nationalists more.
Really why didn't you the glorious mainland is gone now
@@tusharjaggi9235 You Can't blame him lol! he wasn't even Alive!
Then again, if we did, we wouldn't have Europe since that's where the supplies and weapons went
India doing its dumb neutral game made me laugh the most.
You're right, it was dumb. India should have been against the west altogether instead of being neutral
@@GreatNishanka Have fun with the Chinese behind the shoulder!
Good luck shall rain from the British Isle's.
I am very jealous of people living on this timeline, which means that after 2019, without the impact of COVID-19 and far-left ideas on the world, everyone will live in permanent peace
Yeah no. Although communism would be spreading less, it doesn’t mean it would be more peaceful. In fact, despite the flaws of communism, even their food and living standards almost matches their capitalist counterparts. Nearly. Not badly. Even UN reported socialist countries going well. Especially an 80s report about the living standards. But because China doesn’t have Mao Zedong leading the country, there would be mass starvation in that country. It would be more backwards on the level of India. And higher inequality. The world would be more socially unequal.
A good change about this is that the Chinese sparrows wouldn't have to recover over years after the Great leap forward. Am I right
the good ending
非常好视频，使我金圆券飞天
There is no reason why Chiang Ching-Kuo would announce that his successor would not be his son. The reason he did that in Taiwan was due to both internal and external pressure forcing change by the government. If KMT did defeat CCP, there are no reason why he can't let his sons take the reign, but that is if they get to live that long or are competent.
I may not be so optimistic. In this world, Sino-Soviet Split may become Sino-Soviet War. Since Russia as a lonely communist state in Asia could turn more desperate.
Firstly, history cannot be assumed. Secondly, it's so convenient that your hypothesis successfully avoids various difficulties in China's development process, and each choice is correct, which is called the God's perspective. Foolish.
This is alternate history buddy, so I'm afraid it has to be assumed.
@@patrioticbritishmapper8352 You assume that China does not face various difficulties such as population, resources, politics, international relations, etc. This is not a assumed, it's called fantasy.
@@xiaofengwang9541Your point? He already mentioned in the video it was far from a perfect regime
@@MJ2A This has nothing to do with whether the regime is perfect or not. His fantasies are illogical and more like scriptwriting rather than deduction. Compared to him, The Man in the High Castle is more like a historical fact.
@@xiaofengwang9541 Maybe because it’s a theory of alternate history so we can only assume what happens? It’s not that deep.
😭As a Chinese, this is my dream. The whole China and North Korea would be as developed as Taiwan and South Korea. Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia would also be much better (the Khmer Rouge would never exist). Hong Kong, Macau, along with Shanghai and Northeast China, would remain their prosperity.
bullshit china today is more advanced then ever
Yea another India you laugh loud Chinese
Vietnam would be divided though
请不要用线性的思维看待复杂的地缘政治和历史
Pol Pot wasn't a communist
Here's a video idea: the 1991 coup in the Soviet Union succeeds
Cool idea, I'll get that made.
It won't all be roses. For one, there is a chance the Kuomintang tries to expand into the Korean peninsula.
And China is at best still a massively broken, war torn country. Perhaps the US can force some kind of inter-Asian cooperation between China, Japan and the newly liberated Korea to ensure peace in the region, but I doubt they'll be that dedicated.
KMT never claimed Korea, interesting question is whether they'd still want Mongolia back
So how does this affect Genshin?
Earlier Genshin appears.
more 80s anime version. .w.
hu tao gets bigger chest
genshin will be more sexist anime hahaha
@@siyacer hahahahahah
it doesnt. japan in this timeline still develop anime as anime was irrelevant to politics. since anime is made genshin is inevitable.
My cousin’s grandfather was 14 when the communist took over our hometown, he had to hide in the mountains because the KMT during 1948 didn’t care about who you were, as long as you were able you would be sent to the frontline, with no training and weapons. Realistically speaking at that point of the civil war the KMT were on their last rope so it is understandable that they did that. But my cousin grandfather who ran away from the KMT to avoid fighting joined the communist as soon as our hometown “fell”(or liberated) and immediately started “fighting” the KMT( at that point they were already retreating on all fronts to Taiwan ,in fact he says he just ran to the next city before they told him to go back home and gave him a plot of land). So I find it strange that westerners all suddenly believe that the KMT could have won if the USA gave them support, like suddenly solving the KMT’s infighting, corruption, dysfunctional leadership and loss of public support, or simply scare fucking Stalin from providing more help to the communists.
The funniest thing in this video is that conquering Harbin would somehow lead to a communist breakdown when that was the root cause of the KMT’s downfall, they focused too much on the big cities leaving the openfields to the communist, which overtime led to the KMT overextended trying to defend urban pockets while completely surrounded and allowed an easy communist counter offensive to destroy their best soldiers.
Furthermore you can’t just copy Taiwan’s history and copy paste it into this timeline, if China doesn’t fall there would be no red scare, or at least there would be an “allied China” that would stop communism from spreading across Asia, so instead of the Korean War or Vietnam war you could have a China-Korea or China-Vietnam war because China doesn’t want to be surrounded by red states and both America and USSR don’t want to fight, so you may have a proxy war between them in Asia.
Moreover I don’t understand why everyone believes that China is destined to become a great power, look at Russia, Brazil or whatever, they missed their opportunity and never became what they could have been. We may have also stayed on the same level as India for instance.
The only way I see the KMT winning is that Mao drowns in a river and Chiang chokes on wine and their parties actually sign the 1945 peace treaty and keep it.
what da song at the start of video
The msuic was so good that i was kind of dancing to it while the video was going on 😂😂
Yeah, regardless of what one thinks of the KMT, they sure did make good music.
@@patrioticbritishmapper8352what’s the name of em?
@@MJ2A one of them is called "I have a gun" and I think the other one is the Taiwan anthem
I don't think China would waged partial war India in this timeline. Chiang Kai shek was friendly with the Indian government officials who would take power in 1947. China would not have become a staunch US ally. Instead they could have lead the non aligned movement along with India, Yugoslavia, Indonesia, Egypt and Ghana. The reason why Mao invaded india is partially because india gave asylum to dalai lama in 1960's and when the whole world was busy in cuban missile crisis, mao invaded India.
Guess you don't know history. India has a forward policy. Meaning they'll keep going into China till China stops them. This is why the war still classified in India.
I also think that Chiang would have possibly been friendlier with India...at least perhaps not pursuing open war with them. Besides, American and British pressure on Nationalist China would also be for them to avoid conflict!!
【USA🇺🇸 China🇹🇼 India🇮🇳】
LET’S GOOOOOOOO WEBA KING 🤴!!!!!!!