I'll also add, Stephen King once said something along the lines of "don't let writing snobs try and tell you that you're not a real writer. I don't care if you've only sold a story to a local paper for five dollars. If someone paid you for your work, you're a real professional writer." People often mistake being "real" with being "good" at something. There's a woman in my area who heavily edits her photos to the extent that her subjects can look inhuman at times. But it sells, she's a real photographer. I mainly make money from sports photography. I shoot in and use jpeg often. I have to have photos ready in less than 24 hours and have sometimes 2-3000 photos at the end of a football game. There are many who are better than me at all of it. I love doing portraits in my spare time and try and give people price breaks for good photos or even in the case of people who aren't financially stable and have lost parents etc, I do it for free. I enjoy it greatly.
I am just a beginner and no body pays for my photos, but my friends and family members do enjoy the photos I took. They keep them on their phones, make large and small prints.
@@Aviator168 isn't that all, photography is about? having just someone (even if it's yourself) enjoy (some) of your pictures? that's maybe a point for tony's 8 question quiz: so i'd say: 9. Has ever someone said about one of your photos: "This is nice/good looking!"
I'll be 73 years old tomorrow. I took up photography at age 70. I am having a blast. I am a real photographer. The first real photographer I ever met was my Mom. In the 1950's and 60's she took family photos with some kind of old box camera. She would hold it at waist level and look down into it. The camera only appeared on special occasions. Birthdays, weddings, holidays, etc. She took those photos with a smile and love in her heart. From time to time, we get her albums out and laugh and cry over those old, faded, black and white photos. Her love handed precious memories down to her children and continuing generations and our hearts ache and hot tears fall as we once again are allowed to view loved ones from our past. All because.......my Mom was a real photographer. God bless.
I'm disabled with severe migraines and back issues. And due to the migraines, I can't keep everything I learn in my head. That is why I come back to your videos over and over again as a refresher before going out. I will admit I fail often. But I won't give up. Thank you both for a lot of what I do know.
When I started my BFA at university in 2004, I had to ask for special permission to use a digital SLR instead of my film camera because after a few years in the darkroom in high school the chemicals were making me sick. I got a lot of pushback. Nowadays I'm not a real photographer because I shoot with APS-C 😂
That’s interesting and touching. Glad you stuck to your guns; your body will thank you. Re: shooting APSC - I have a full frame body but more often shoot crop because those cameras are easier to carry around.
My art school back in the day had funky darkrooms that had no ventilation, and because I was a photography major, I spent days and weeks in those rooms. I seriously destroyed my sense of smell and it also affected my sense of taste. I still have a sense of both, but they are very diminished.
Call yourself real photographers? Pah, you're only a real photographer when using the collodian process. I hadn't developed an image properly unless my lips turned blue and I had vomited twice. I once exploded the top of my stove pipe hat when a stray spark from my clay pipe caught it. Real photographers. . . . Don't make me laugh!
I have followed your channel for the last two years. This video was so perfect. I drive a garbage truck for a living. My camera bag goes with me every day. I tell everyone I’m a paid tourist, telling the stories of my days sometimes thru my photography. I am a rookie photographer, but feel like I am living and learning every single day. At the age of 50 I discovered what it’s like to operate a camera. I started with my smart phone and still use it. I can’t even say how much I enjoy the process’s and the learning’s. Thanks for being my go to channel and having the ultimate honest responses to life.
Chelsea is spot on about people who are insecure in their own skills trying to keep others out. They do this by berating and making you feel “less than”. It’s especially present on the Fuji forums (love that Fuji dig Tony!!). Grab a camera, ANY camera, get out there, and have some fun. I NEEDED to hear this today but I’ve been second guessing myself lately. Thx!!
THANK YOU FOR THIS!!!!!!! ❤❤❤ I have encountered SO MUCH of this "gate keeping" (perfect term for this). And it's so disheartening. I've since gotten over it. I'm one of those weekend warriors. I'm a middle school teacher, and one of the electives I teach is photography. But I don't have cameras for my students. So, the first lesson is "What is the best camera?" That's when they learn, "It's the one you have with you." If they have fancy DSLR cameras, they are invited to use them. If they have point and shoot cameras, they are invited to use them. For most of them, the camera they have with them is their phone camera. There's NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT!!!! My main goals for them in my class are to just get out there, start taking photos, have FUN with it, and push your boundaries. I give them a list of 22 projects they can choose from when they do their assignments, to help them accomplish these goals. And the truth is, I shoot in auto all the time. I am totally showing my students this video. Thank you!!!!
A lot of photographers are a-holes. I worked with a 16 -year-old recently who said she and her mother have been treated horribly by everyone they've worked with. The photographers were just terrible to them. She was stunned that I was nice and actually valued her input as a model.
I got a surprise on that mark last year when I was setting up a senior photo shoot at a chapel. I reached out to them about doing a private shoot on the chapel grounds and then set up a date/time to meet them in person and visit the grounds. In talking with the pastor and office manager in person, both told me that I was the "most respectful photographer" they'd interacted with. Apparently they have had issues with people just... showing up without bothering to even ask beforehand, let alone schedule a date/time. My jaw was on the floor as they were telling me this... But absolutely I also want the model's input on a shoot. I have this on an advisory page I send to all new clients and models: "Photo shoots should be collaborative. And the shoot is always better when you contribute ideas. We don't expect you to come to the shoot with a list of ideas. But ideas may come to mind as we go - we've yet to have a shoot where that wasn't the case - so be sure to share them."
One client told me where he wanted the camera, choice of backdrop, lighting should be, etc. I listened for a while. After he was done, I got up and left the studio. If you know what you want, then you don't need me.
I was at a large event shooting with an APS-C camera in full auto. Another photographer asked me why I was shooting in one particular mode. I've since retired the APS-C and bought a used full frame camera because that's all I could afford. Another person came to me and boasted that they are using a mirror-less camera. Photography is a hobby. And as long as it makes my family and friends happy, who cares what others think. And yes I use LightRoom!
I am always amazed at how people feel that processing photos is cheating, something a “real” photographer would never do. Yet those who criticize shoot JPEGS that the computer in their camera is processing. 😊 Thanks for pointing out how much “processing” was done by the greats. Besides editing is part of the fun.
Photography is an art, and like any other piece of art, it is done when the artist says that it is done. You don't have to like it, but you have to respect their right to do it. Unless you are entering a contest with specific rules that limit what you can do, or you are passing something off as documentation that isn't, it is your piece of art.
I used to try dodging and shading in the darkroom back in the day, but of course you only get to see the result once you have developed and fixed the print and can view it in the light, too late to change anything. So much better with digital.
"Processing" into Darkroom was of course done a long time ago. But i do think we do have to make a difference, to post process a particular picture to your minds eye, your pre-visualisation of a specific photograph, compared to the "i'll fix that in post..." crowd, which is a difference. 🙂I don't want to think about countless hours, i've lost inside PS.
How’s this for irony? I’ve been ridiculed in the past for “not editing enough.” Not fixing said corner color, righting said over-exposure. When the reality is they were decisions. People can be so fickle.
@@thedirtywoodsman604 Well, i personal edit only pictures here & there, as i had previsualized it into my minds eye. Usually subtle, sometimes a bit more. But think about current smartphones with all their A.I. image "enhancements" and such - the grass is being greener than into reality, the leafes, and everything else oversharpened, etc...and the whole picture usually out of a phone looks more like a smarties version of a real photo, than the photograph itself. Into short, it's digital image fakery, which i have no use for it.
You guys are a scream, highly entertaining, and very good at what you do, both with cameras and with informed YT presentation. I can see why this channel is so popular.
I find them accessible, entertaining, informative, and nonjudgemental, so it's nice for people learning to be able to go somewhere where photographers teach them things without being mean.
I think Hemingway’s definition of a writer applies in part. “Did you write yesterday? Are you writing today? Do you plan to write tomorrow?” Add a dash of Chelsea’s intent / reflection on improving the output, and you’ve got the winning package, even as a weekend warrior.
Re the old saying "Those who can, do; those who cannot, teach" - I spent decades in computer networking, doing and teaching. Here is my experience of it: "Who can can, do; those who understand, teach".
What makes a real photographer is a joy and will to take beautiful pictures. How you do it and what equipment to use, is a personal choice, but photography is a feeling, it is not about right or wrong, well in some cases it is, but in most cases it is a feeling and that is what we feel makes a "real" photography and magic happen. Great video, thank you for sharing.
I wont accept anyone who uses a smartphone as main device to call themselves a photographer, ESPECIALLY not smartphones that use so call "A.I." to manipulate the images. There's a hard limit to what a "real" photographer is VS a social media content creator. Let's be honest about that.
@@The-Cat that's a good point. I do agree that pressing a button on the phone is not photography and I do draw the line there as well, but as far as cameras or other equipment, that is where some photographers tend to get caught up with what is real and what is not, so I do not put a value on camera or lights as being "real" photographer, but yes, not just pressing the button on a smartphone. I agree on that.
@@The-Cat Interesting. I only started photography about 4 years ago and bought an APS-C camera. Then I watched TH-cam and learned that to get great pictures, professionals use full-frame cameras. So I bought a brand new Sony a7R IVA, with a Sony 24mm F/1.4, Sony 16-35mm, Tamron 35-150 F/2-2.8, Sony 200-600, Sigma 18-50mm, Sony 1.4x teleconverter, expensive tripods and backpacks. I have to admit, some of my images actually look surprisingly okay. But I still take pictures with my iPhone when I am out taking wildlife and did not bring my landscape lenses when I see something nice. And I often enjoy those pictures just as much as I do my expensive gears. Honestly, with the exception of my wildlife lens (because of the reach), if I can go back and do it again, I wouldn't buy any of these stuff and just use my iPhone. I still have to look at my scene, compose my shots, click on a button, edit them. And surprise -- most photo editors today have "AI" in them. I guess you can lump me in the "not a photographer" group for wishing I knew then what I know now. Photography is an expensive hobby/passion. I love taking pictures on my iPhone as much as I do my "pro" gears. And, blasphemy, I sometimes go out with just my iPhone as my main gear. I think this was the point of this video, don't you think?
I actually started my journey into photography by following a number of professionals that were inspiring. One, that I will not name, made a TikTok or a Reel, that claimed real photographers do not shoot higher than single shot and made reference to "back in the day". I commented on how ludicrous it was to not use the exceptional capabilities of the equipment you spent thousands of dollars and have not watched a video from them since. To me the purpose of photography is to capture a moment in time that can be shared and enjoyed forever. Immortalized. However you manage to create that moment or for what purpose isn't the point and no one way makes you more "Pro" than the next person. Just my 2 cents.
Back in the day sucked. You took 12, 24, 36 or more exposures, depending on how much money you wanted to burn that day and had to wait to find out how badly you did. Nowadays, you have absolutely INSTANT feedback on what you did right or wrong, and to not use that capability to take dozens* of shots of a good set-up at different settings and with different angles or approaches to learn how to get better is utter foolishness. *uh, just remember to clean out your storage afterwards...
@@nikytamayo The other great advantage with digital is that you can change your ISO setting as conditions change. You used to be stuck with whatever ISO film you had loaded in the camera.
A couple of years ago I took your advice on photographing flying birds. It drastically improved the quality of the pictures I took. One of the qualities of a real photographer is the willingness to learn from others and to give advice to those in need. I am not a professional photographer. But I am a hobbyist and I take it seriously. Thank you for your sharing your knowledge with us.
What a breath of fresh air this was, I have been shooting sports part time professionally for 15 years around my 9-5, looking forward to retirement from the 9-5 side. When I first started started I had entry level gear and worked hard to get better at capturing “the finished image”, anyway I could. I laugh at those that try to tell people only shooting raw, no crop one frame at a time means your a professional with a certain type of equipment…. If today I told the NCAA teams, newspaper and pro teams that I cover events for that, I’d never work. You get an assignment and as Chelsea so we’ll said, work to intentionally get the finished image your after. I have never had a editor or client tell me do it this way or I can’t use you…. It’s more like this is the finished image format I need by this time & this here is the schedule of events. Different gear can be helpful, however it comes down to one thing, get the image that is needed, and you do that with intent…. One of the many sports I shoot is ice hockey, a very challenging sport to cover, one of my favorite hockey photographers is Bruce Bennet, last I heard he was shooting with R5, jpeg, mechanical shutter & cropping…. And laughed even harder about not helping people, because sadly your a bit correct in that aspect. I actually go the other way, as I have a memory & if experienced photographers had not taken a minute to talk, answer questions and offer guidance when I was first starting, I would not be as fortunate as I am today. Please continue to put out great content, along with topics such as this, it helps many people with not only technical aspects of photography, but the mental aspects of taking photos and sharing them & working to get better - with intention / cheers from the West Coast CA
I've given this some thought before and my conclusion was that a photographer is a journey not a destination. The moment you become a photographer is the first time you notice a photo. As a child you will see lots of photos but one day you'll notice a photo and you'll stop whatever you are doing and spend a moment thinking about that photo. As a photographer you have just been "born". Your journey has begun, even if it'll be years before you own your own camera. Obviously this means that most people are photographers but we are all at different stages of our journey.
Absolutely correct, Ivan! "[being] a photographer is a journey not a destination", is a motto I will be fitting to my office wall! Brilliant take. Also, your excellent construct of a photographer being born and beginning that journey succinctly describes what I went through. Great comment, Ivan.
Great video. A "real" photographer is someone that can use a camera and get good photographs and enjoys it, no matter what the gear is. Three of my favourite photos I ever took were of a Parasol mushroom, Silver Y Moth and a Field Grasshopper which I took with a Vivitar 4345 compact camera just after buying it. I went into a field the same day, took out the camera and got the shots. The Vivitar 4346 had very few manual controls. Even to this day with better cameras and lenses, I have not been able to get as good a photo of a grasshopper as I did with that Vivitar camera. In early 2020 before everything went into lockdown, I held an event where I showed off prints of many of my photographs to the public. and got lots of great comments on them. Quite a few were taken in JPEG only as the photos were taken back when I just started using DSLRs in the mid to late 00s and I didn't really know about shooting/editing RAW so I shot everything in JPEG for several years. The gear you use doesn't matter, its results that matter. If the gear you use can give you the shots you are after, why does someone else care what you use beyond being a bit interested in how you got the shots you did?
As you both pointed out a "real" photographer takes photos with intention and purpose. It's so easy to get caught up in gear and settings but telling a story intentionally is what makes a photographer. I struggle with that quite a bit. Being in technology I tend to focus on the technical aspects of photography rather than telling a story. I need to work on the artistic side of my photography for sure.
I know photographers who have a new camera every two years. The latest and greatest. They never really learn how to use any of them, and their photos show it! On the other hand I know a guy who is still shooting a film camera he bought in the nineties. He knows that camera inside and out, exactly how it will respond under any light or weather conditions. His photos are spectacular. I asked him if he was planning on buying a modern camera. He laughed and said, "Sure, someday, when this one stops working, or they stop making film!"
Wow. Chelsea, you're observations that start at 18:22 about what makes a "real photographer" are perfect. Thank you. I started to realize I was a real photographer when i was using my Blackberry Curve to take some photos and that growing photographic self-awareness led me to now taking great photos with top notch gear (just a 55mm f/1.8 prime, a 24-105mm f/4 zoom and 2 a7r3 bodies--one for each lens) that I love. I am an award winning photographer who has not sold any work but love what I create (and how I create it) and I still love learning about photography. Both of you have been a part of my learning process for about 7 years now, so thank you.
Photography has many aspects to it (salesmanship, art, craftsmanship, deadline, technicality), and which ever ones you focus on, for your own pleasure or for a client, is up to you. No photographer can pay full attention to every single aspect, so you have to prioritise what makes sense for your workflow. This applies to every art or craft, of course.
Great video. I love Chelsea's definition of a photographer as being anyone who takes a picture with intent. I think the purpose of the video is to understand a difference between those who take pictures and those who are photographers and I think Chelsea's definition is a perfect differentiator.
This is a common issue along many hobby/professions. I like Chelsea's qualification of "intent" and I would go further and say: if a person is a real if they are intentionally trying to achieve the results of said , and have spent some intentional energy on how to achieve desired or necessary results in the preset or past. Cooking has been like this for a long time where casuals have been able to achieve results with easier techniques, better technology, or just automation/pre-packaging. What makes a chef versus a person who just cooks to live -- even if they cook for others? Photography is basically there with everyone having a camera phone. We don't want to be pompus, but there really is a difference worth the title or qualifier "photographer" versus a person who just wants to snap pictures with their phone. How do you get there? I don't think you do easily, but I offer a suggestion to qualify someone further as a hobbyist or professional: if you practiced the trade not because you desired the result, but because you wanted to ensure you could produce the result, I'd call you more of a professional or at least hobbyist. For example, if you cook something you don't need or want to eat but wanted to know "I can make this dish now"; or you took photos of something you didn't need or want, but because you wanted to for practice. It usually easier to separate two participants in a field by looking at the amount of effort they put into learning, amount of knowledge they gained, or amount success they achieved. Call an 10 year old with a phone camera who's taking photos a photographer, but I will come right back and point out that the energy and resources spent are different than someone who's enrolled in classes or a degree; who's spending a lot of time on TH-cam learning; who's going out on the field many times a day to practice and more. This is where I put most phone camera users; if you can only be bothered to pull out your phone camera when you want to snap a pic and barely spare a thought as to why it came out poorly; you entirely don't care about understanding what the limits of your phone camera are; you can pull out your phone hundreds of more times, and snap thousands of more photos, than another photographer and I wouldn't call you a solid photographer. Inevitably, that many snaps will have a solid result here or there, but Separately, I've heard the idea of a professional in a field is this: a professional doesn't necessarily produce the best result, they are extremely reliable at producing the necessary result. I call photography a hobby of mine because I've spent considerable time practicing without regard to the value of what I'm creating other than pursuit of the knowledge and capability. I'm good enough to produce results in a lot of cases, or at least clearly understand what skill, knowledge, equipment, or even effort I lack to get it. In that sense, I *could* be a professional at will, but choose not to be.
Thank you for addressing this. I find it odd that some call out influencers as non photographers. I have honestly been very inspired to take more photos based on “influencers” and those I like on social platforms. For example I really resonate with Peter McKinnon’s dark and moody style. Without influences/influencers how else would we learn and hone in our skills? Added to this, I also have learned a great deal and been encouraged by both of your hard work in keeping the photography industry both real and accessible. Much gratitude and respect to you both! 📸🙂
I started my journey about 10 or so years ago. I begun with a very basic DSLR (650D) and then upraded a couple of times, got a couple of L Lenses, got lights, gear, tripods and whatnot. Not to mention, in the beggining I used very very basic settings, and gradually tried more and more advanced features. Today, I find myself not "NEEDING" ANY of the advanced features of my camera, but they sure do help a lot. I don't "need" autofocus. But I LIKE autofocus. Helps a ton. I don't "need" raw. But it does help a lot in post. I don't "need" most of the luxuries my camera has. But they sure make the whole thing more enjoyable. ( One of the very VERY strong reasons, I got my first camera, was that I liked the camera, as a gadget first. I find the technology behind cameras, fascinating. So that's one more reason for me, to not ignore the technology in my hands. ) My point of view is: A Real Photographer, is ANYONE who is using a PHOTO they took, to tell a "Story". It doesn't matter if you shot someone at the street using full Auto mode, with a Samsung Galaxy, or if you are shooting the MilkyWay using 25.000$ equipement with star trackers, modified bodies, and settings that give the average photographer a headache. A PHOTO, is a PHOTO, and the one that took it, is a PHOTOGRAPHER.
I always understood a "bridge camera" to be an oftentimes smallish camera with advanced settings (like those on a DSLR), but with a fixed, permanently-attached lens.
I recently “discovered” Derek Forss’ channel and have been blown away by his photos shown on screen. He shoots micro four thirds, he uses kit lenses, he uses P mode when appropriate, etc. All kinds of things no “real” photographer would ever do. His photos are as beautiful as his storytelling. Thanks Tony and Chelsea!
Sooooo right on, guys. Thank you. If you create images that make people smile, that promote crying, anger, laughter, that make people care about the subject, if you take pictures and when you look at them you laugh. Many years ago --1960s-- my good friend Marsha had a little black box Rolli 2x2 camera, not a Hasselblad. She was an art student at UC Berkeley. She developed and printed her photos. She had no illusions about becoming a "great" photographer. But she had a special eye for image. We'd go on shoots together and shoot the same subjects. My shots were ho hum, hers were spectacular. She became a ceramicist, jewelry designer and painter and has lived without poverty, off her art to the present day. Ask her if she is a "REAL' artist, she will tell you she just likes creating stuff and laugh "Let others worry about what makes a real artist." or photographer.
LOL thank you so much for this Tony and Chelsea!! I've never felt like a "real" photographer either, it's a hobby. But after answering yes to 8 out of 8, I'm feeling pretty damn good about myself right now 🥰 Love seeing such a positive conversation around this!
Here in Brazil people use to say "Professional Photographer" or "professional camera" to anything big or expensive. So simple to understand that professionals are those one making money and that's all. Many of them are using old DSLR and without backup equipment. AND, most important, a lot of times amateurs photographers are who really buy expensive gears.
If I didn’t believe you two were “real” photographers, I won’t be here … I’ve been watching you guys for years. Love ya!! I live down the street from Clyde’s studio and run into him occasionally, really a great guy … 🙏🙏
I LOVE THIS!! I knew I was a real photographer when… As a direct sales consultant, I used to travel to conferences and conventions with my team. There would always be an after 5 or formal event and I would be asked to take pictures of individuals or the group. I COULD NOT just take their picture. I had to pose them properly so I could see everyone’s face. Then I had to make sure they were in a flattering light that didn’t put shadows in their eye sockets. Hold your chin up/down/look this way/no, look that way!😂 I’d ALWAYS hear “Would you just take the picture?!” I would get so flustered at how the photos looked I never wanted to be asked to take any more. I later decided to follow my passion, and be a professional (i.e., paid) photographer and I’ve been happy ever since.
My favorite one is "your camera takes nice pictures" Great video. I struggle with accepting that I am a "real photographer" but your quiz made me realize I am. Thx!! I would take a sponsorship in a heartbeat... it's one of my goals. I also would influence if I had the balls to do it, but I'm new to the game. I've only been shooting for about 3 years. Bottom line is, I love shooting and editing and that's all that matters. I get to see some amazing things and travel frequently, so I shoot what I see and share them with the world. I have a fairly cheap kit, but I have intention and a willingness to keep learning. Thank y'all for clarifying. I appreciate your work! And Tony, thx for also helping me pass my part 107!!
I’m a fulltime photographer, but when I do my private pictures, I love it to just have a RX100VII and the G5XII with me. It’s always funny to see other photographers looking down at me, like ohhh are you serious with you toys?! You’re not a real photographer. These „toys“ let me feel free. A lot of photographers seem to have no idea, how mighty these cameras are. I sell these pictures all the time and no client ever knows, which camera shot these pictures. So who cares, it’s a camera so it’s a tool.
I’ve had the same experience when going to shoot musicians at clubs. The guys with full-frame rigs just look at you like you are this scummy audience member. They then try to block you from getting your shot because they realize that you have the perfect angle.
Thank you so much for this video. As a beginning recreational photographer starting out several years ago, I did not know anything about my camera, how to shoot photos, what the different settings mean, finding my style, etc., I took a digital photography class. I had a fantastic instructor and he never made anyone feel less of a photographer. The students had all variety of cameras, Canon, Sony, Nikon, point and shoot, dslr etc. One can only learn from real photographers, i.e., those who have experience and knowledge who are willing to share so beginners like me can learn. Who else am I suppose to learn from? My pets don't know how to use a camera. I subscribe to several photographer's TH-cam channels, yours being one of them to continue the learning process. I thank you very much for being great teachers and photographers. Each photographer brings something to the table that interests me and I love learning how to take better photos. Meaning learning what settings will get me the outcome I seek.
I have used equipment to direct photons to a surface that allowed me to process and store, a two dimensional point cloud like 'graph' representing the state of those photons. Later, humans were able to view that graphic, and easily understand what the original objects were that those photons interacted with, before I captured and processed them.
Whether you're a "real" photographer or not, if something gets you out of your own way for a while, it's real for you, and that's all that counts. And I remember when Ansel died, they auctioned off his 1977 Cadillac, which he drove to on nature assignments. We all need to eat, I guess. ❤️
I grew up as a kid using a Kodak Brownie roll film camera, eventually moving to my 1st 35mm film camera, then a Canon EOS 300 35mm film camera, and also a 2 1/4" Mamiya twin lens reflex camera. I progressed on to processing film, both B&W and colour prints in my home darkroom as well as E4 & E6 transparencies. Oh how I longed to be able to process in "the light"! Then along came my first DSLR, a Canon EOS 3OOD & computer editing. Wow! My dream came true! I have moved through Canon EOS models, 500D, 70D, 80D's & now have a pair of 90D's. (Not moving to mirrorless yet, not worn out the shutters on the 90D''s!) I prefer the APS-C for ease of carrying and I like the crop it gives on my 100-400mm Canon EF L and Sigma 150-600mm C lenses for wildlife. I edit my shots on a PC as I want them to be. If others like them, great. If not, great! If any of the above means I'm not a "real photographer", then so be it. I don't care. I'll continue to not be a "real photographer" until I'm unable to be so. I'm mid 70's and intend to be a "non real" photographer "for ever". Thank you both, Chelsea & Tony, for your show which is both informative, educational, inspirational and has so much common sense content. Regards from England, UK.
Great discussion, spot on. I shoot mostly for my own entertainment, occasionally ending up with a quality keeper, but I also answered Yes to several of Tony's quiz questions. If someone were to inform me that I'm not a "real" photographer, my very overt response to them would be "who cares."
As for the Qs, I answered YES to all (I can remember when I broke equipment, and am using time of day, whether app, and specific locations - even hooked to some specialized groups for news of interest, and recently started trying to pay attention to wind directions). I am exclusively a wildlife photographer (my preference). My first photos, I was asked dismissively by a relative, if I can quote the ISO, SS, and F# that I used in each photo. My answer was: "If you like it, what does it matter? --If you don't like it, what does it matter?". In my view it is the same for all art. BUT, am I good enough to start feeling like a professional? -well.. -I don't make a living out of it, so obviously, I'm not "a professional", but the interesting bit is - "Can I produce professional looking photos? " - And that is the crux of things, at least for me, but I think for a lot more DP enthusiasts. -And yes, I know it's like cycling: If you feel it's easy, you're in decline.
I believe what is important in all fields of art is the composition, balance, lighting and the finished work. Also one must realize that those who make a living with photography as in other art fields is a business, so one must get the word out by using social media, like making you tube videos, using Facebook, advertising ,having a website, writing books and teaching others is part of the trade and business of artist. I was really thrilled when I started using PhotoShop in 2004, back then I had my film digitized when developed by a photo lab, so I could use it, since could not afford a digital camera when they came out, it save me hours of darkroom time when making a print, the expense of chemical and a reduction of pollution when dodging and burning a print, then came Lightroom and I really like it too. I like learning new thing when it come to photography even though I have been using cameras since 1968. Since the cost of film photography is drastically going up, I got my first digital camera which is a Canon EOS 2000D a few month ago. What I really like about these camera, you don't have to wait to see what the picture looks like it can be seen just after you take that picture, another thing I like about the digital camera is that bracketing can be set on them and you don't have to play with the f stops on the lens as on a film camera, the light meters are great on them, so you don't have to have one to carry around. Once I get comfortable with this camera I would like to go to medium format in digital like the Canon EOS 90D especially since I shoot still pictures.
That's just it, isn't it? Fewer and fewer photographers make "a living" at photography (there are certainly some, such as wedding and event photographers), but must supplement their photography by teaching others how to photograph, by writing articles, books, running TH-cam channels, guiding photography "ecotours" and giving lectures and classes. Making a living strictly from ones photographs is becoming increasingly difficult.
I like Chelsea's idea of what a photographer is. Because it is really all about taking photos with intent. So if you do take photos with intent, and feel like you are a photographer, then you are. The big difference however is weather or not you're a professional photographer. A professional photographer make money off of photographing. Which is a big difference. It doesn't necessarily mean the photos are better than a non-professional photographer, more often than not they are, but not necessarily because the non-professional shooters are bad a photography, but when you can make a living as a photographer, you get to shoot all day, which tend to build the skill level more than those doing it as a hobby. And as a professional photographer the one thing I hear is, you're not a real photographer because you don't have a photography degree from a fancy university or something like that. Well, I don't, but I have shot half a million photos in my life, I have several thousand shots published, I have sold prints and I have a turnover equivalent of several hundred thousand dollars a year from photography alone. So I tend to say I went to TH-cam university to study photography. I learned from great photographers teaching the craft. They most certainly can do, and not just teach. Photography isn't about credentials. It's only about the photos. Gear doesn't count either. Nor the process you took to get to the finished photo. If the finished photo is great. The finished photo is great. Doesn't matter if you used 10 year old gear, 3 different software processing solutions and it only looks good on screen. If it looks great, it is great.
I remember a quote from Jared saying along the lines of “it’s like getting mad at automobiles because back it your day, you were riding on horseback” I think a lot of these gatekeeping are born from fear of change.
LOL 😂 This is the first time I realize where the name ‘Lightroom’ comes from. - Funny thing is, some of the best photos that I have ever taken where so spontaneous that without any auto settings these would have never been created at all. But I have no problem not being a good photographer. 😊 Thank you Chelsea & Tony for your awesome content! 🙏☺️
Great vid you guys, and right on. You beat me to it! I had the making of a video like this on my list, as I’m starting to hear it all…”I use film and take PHOTOGRAPHS…you guys use digital and take PICTURES”. Gheeezz…
Peter Mckinnon is a fine lad and was the first guy I found to make tutorials. I just searched for something like " canon street photography tutorial" and the man wiped the drool from my face and gave me the 101 of everything. Later on in life I went down the wildlife photography route and I watch a lot of Simon D'Entremont, but my point is that you should be like a sponge and watch many different youtubers and learn from them. Some may have nice editing skills you can apply to your photography, some have great tips on how to actually shoot great pictures and others are great at giving you location tips. No point in disrespecting anybody, there are many different paths that appeal to many different people and it's all cool.
I became interested in photography a few years ago and bought an M6MarkII, it wasn’t long before I wanted a FF camera. I experimented and enjoyed taking pictures. I made a couple videos but it didn’t interest me as much. Fast forward to today, I saved up and bought an R6MarkII. I started capturing the small town I live in at various times and events and shared a few on social media. One day, a business owner in town messaged me and asked me if I was a photographer. He also asked to purchase some of my images. I have seen some of my images on display (With My Permission) around town. As much as I like photography as a hobby… I still don’t know if I am a photographer. I’m a guy who likes to capture images that interest me, I have sold some of my images, some are on public display, I can answer yes to most of the questions you asked… but to me, I’m just a guy who likes to take pictures of things that interest him. Side Note: Just a coincidence but most of the images on display were actually captured with the M6MarkII, not the R6MarkII.😂
I think of myself to be a semi-professional/professional photographer, mostly because it's currently my secondary income stream. But I am a photographer. Period. As well as many other things - a painter, a vanlifer, an environmenalist, a home cook, I eat, I sleep, etc. etc. etc. I went to art school in the 70s and majored in photography, so I went from analog for decades to digital in the past fifteen years or so. I have used film cameras, point and shoots, dSLRs and my iPhone. I love to mentor. I use Photoshop. I use a lot of Auto Settings most of the time and only sometimes do I use full manual, because whatever mistakes I make with the camera I can fix in editing. I don't miss the darkroom. I love taking images. I get overwhelmed by the number of images digital affords me to take compared to film. I've always thought that I am a *real* photographer. I've always thought that people who shame others for their gear are insecure. I give them a lot of space. I used to work in Tech and I've experienced a lot of one upmanship and tech shaming in the bro-culture, and I don't have time for it.
Loved this!!! I guess for all these years “I’m not a real photographer”. Thank you for doing this!! Thank you Chelsea for giving me a new term “Gatekeeper” I love that!!! Appreciate your videos!! 👍🏼
I am a real photographer because…..when my husband and I plan our vacations, I research the area for things I want to photograph. Are there wildlife sanctuaries in the area? What about waterfalls? Is it the right time of year for wildflowers? I’m a hobbyist and I enjoy constantly learning more about photography and continually improving. I enjoy watching your posts. Thanks!
I do often think of "real wildlife photographers" as those who license a large number of images to publications and advertising agencies. I guess I'm a bit of a gatekeeper, but I do see a huge difference between those who just do wildlife photography for fun and those who take enough marketable images to make a living, or a significant portion of a living, at it. I suppose I should say, "commercially successful wildlife photographers" instead of "real wildlife photographers". That would be a more precise and accurate way of gatekeeping.
When people I know or don't know see me with a camera they just assume I'm a photographer. Never been told I wasn't a photographer. What ever you do in life, there is always snobbery. If you intentionally create images with any camera you're a photographer. Great video guys. Thanks for addressing this.
My best, oldest buddy in the world (who I sold some of my old gear to when I upgraded), regularly reminds me that I am a photographer, and a pro to boot. I make some money off of my work (not even enough to pay for the gear I own), but as my friend says, the photographs I take are high quality, many people greatly enjoy them, some people buy them, some people pay me to shoot, and I take pride in my work and am always trying to improve my skills. MY problem, is that I don't think that I'm good enough, but that is part of what drives me to improve. When I look back on photos I took five years ago, I know I have improved since then, and it's not just due to using better equipment than I was five years ago. I've been shooting since the early '70s (I still own and use the Olympus OM-1 I bought when I was in high school) and I spent countless hours in the darkroom in my parents' basement. I'm now shooting with a Nikon Z9 and using Adobe and Topaz products for post production, and it feels like cheating a lot of the time, but I'm consistently getting images I could never have gotten before. I've paid my dues, lived through the incredible evolution of photo technology, continuously improved my craft, and yet I have to keep reminding myself that I've earned the title of "real photographer."
Definitely the processing! I’ve been told many times that I process my photos too much. I would describe my photos as neo-pictorialism with dark/spooky/gothic themes, so it involves a lot of textures, extreme adjustments of brightness and contrast, and a lot of dodging and burning.
I love you two. There’s so much judgement and criticism out there, but you teach and encourage and provide a safe place for students like me to exhale. You’re calm, you’re funny, and you share so much knowledge, and for it I only spent $2017.99! Haha, that was for the GREAT book SDP which I absolutely love, and for the Nikkor 105 1.4 lens that Chelsea reviewed and made me HAVE to buy!! Thanks Tony and Chelsea. Real photographers!! ❤
I love this. Kind of embarrassed that I have caught myself thinking this "not a real photographer" about others and myself at times. I have become more of "if you were there and managed to capture it, that is real photography."
I have no idea what would qualify one as a "real" photographer but I do know that an eye for composition counts for a lot more than your gear and knowledge of advanced camera settings. I've sold pictures from trips to Yosemite and across Nebraska and Utah as well as pictures from around my town. Many of which were taken with an older Sony point and shoot with a 16x zoom and minimal manual settings. But I learned to use all that the camera had to give and I have a good eye for composition and would simply get myself into position to make the most of what my camera could do. I never tried to sell them but when I would take a portfolio to work to show people the trips or what I had seen people asked if they could buy some. I take pictures and never worry about what title anyone wants to assign to me. Heck, I'm a terrible painter when I compare myself to those I consider great painters but somehow I paint pictures people like because they buy them. I think in any hobby or profession we tend to worry too much about what our peers think and not enough about what our clients think or want. I'm a physical therapist by trade and often new graduates wonder why I use such basic terminology when discussing issues with my patients. I tell them because I'm not worried about what another therapist thinks of my explanations. I'm worried about my patient understanding what they need to understand in order to benefit from our session.
Great video! The narrowest (and at the same time broadest) definition I've heard: A photographer is someone who gets paid to take pictures. Paradoxically, the "most real photographers" by this definition are some of my friends who have worked as studio photographers all their lives and now hate even the word "photography" and groan in pain when anyone tries to talk to them about it. On a serious note, I've seen pictures taken by completely "non-photographers" that are simply brilliant, and it really doesn't matter if they consider themselves a photographer or not. Finally, it seems to me that saying someone isn't a real photographer is mostly about "professional envy" and/or a perception of one's own ineptitude.
Something to potentially discuss: photography is evolving to be less technically difficult and with mirrorless and seeing the final product as you press the shutter opens up the field for people who aren’t technically skilled but have a much more creative mindset. I think we’d be surprised with the number of “pros” who aren’t super technical - which no longer matters to get the shot.
Yes, it's now much easier to get a proper exposure and focus. That allows you to concentrate on other, IMO, more important aspects of photography like light and composition. Some old timer profesional photographers seem frustrated by this, and I know exactly why. Now, you have to go beyond just having sharp, well exposed photos to get paid. Many don't do that very well, and it's hard for them to succeed in this environment. They don't want to have to update or upgrade their skills. I have little time for that perspective.
Just came across this and found it so interesting. In thd UK the most common message from photographers I come across is “ If your not shooting in full manual then your effectively in auto mode. Using aperture priority is where I work mostly with exposure compensation and I find it so frustrating when people don’t understand the control over DOF ISO etc when shooting in aperture priority mode.
You guys touched on everything that I have encountered since I started photography. I know a few people that can shoot pics with a cellphones like they are conducting a symphony orchestra. They are so positive and a joy to be around. I stay away from anyone that nothing good to say about photography. It is my therapy. It stays on my mind all the time. Thanks to the you guys for all of your tutorials and advice.
Amazing... and spot on. Thank you for this video. Rearranging before/during a shoot, moving the subject, tidying up the clutter in the foreground/background etc are all on par with editing.
"F8 and be there" has been a mantra of mine for decades. The technical aspects of photography never came easy to me. Nor did my my education. I struggled with all of it until I heard "F8 and be there"! I loved taking pictures enough that nothing got in my way. When I heard the mantra "F8 and be there" it released me from the shackles of technical know how and put me on the path of just going with my instinct, my creative persona, my soul. It freed me!
I joined a camera club in the last couple of weeks as now clocking up 3 years as a photographer I felt I needed help. Last week my new skill in developing film, i shoot film mainly, 1 member asked if they would show them todays ways of developing at home as he had not done it for decades. Tomorrow, tuesday, I take my R6 with my 16, 35 and 50 mm RF's to shoot light trails with my club. Whatever and however you shoot..... ENJOY IT and share.
You are so right. David Hurn, one of the first Magnum photographers (since the mid to late 1960s) was interviewed a few years ago on his life as a photographer. He still works as well as taking shots just for himself. He now uses a Fujifilm, fixed lens, mirrorless camera. he uses auto settings and autofocus, who could possibly claim that David Hurn is not a real photographer?
When i first start taking photo, i remember the first video i watch is about aperture taught by Tony. Thanks a lot for your free lesson. Its been five years since
I took a history of photography college course, from a professor who owns a camera and actively take photos but he says he is not a photographer. (A little silly) I think it’s because he has an understandings and respect for the art of photography. To each their own. I always enjoy your videos Tony and Chelsea
This may be my favorite video you have ever done! I love that you made it clear photography is a big enough space for all of us to work, learn, and play with different gear, different techniques and different motives for shooting.
I started photography at age 19, I’m 48 now. A very elderly and retired “real photographer” GAVE me an old Pentax film camera and several lenses. For FREE! Some of the first amazing pics I took was of some exotic deer on a ranch near our house in Texas. One of the best days of my life! And I’ve been at ever since. I gave up photography 10 years ago when my home was burglarized and they took my Canon DSLR. However I’m back at it with another camera I am having a blast! And oh yeah, I have made less than $700 in my photography. I make the rest of my money in architecture. But all the time, people ask me “will you do my wedding? Graduation? Quinceañera?” 🤣 thank you for this video! Loved it!
I agree with pretty much ALL of these myths you said Tony and Chelsea, and it's ridiculous. ESPECIALLY the Auto and the FPS point you said. Firstly WHAT does it matter if someone uses an Auto mode like Program, Aperture Priority, Shutter Priority, Full Auto to get off a picture? The whole point of using Auto or Priority modes (particularly the Priority modes), is you take a photo, and IF it doesn't turn out the way you want it to, change that particular setting and try again. Just because someone uses something OTHER THAN full Manual, that does NOT make them a bad photographer, and I am sick of people saying that. Because photography as Tony and Chelsea said is NOT about the settings as much as it is about ALL the other things that goes with photography, like composition, lighting and so on. If people prefer to shoot in Auto or one of the Semi-Auto modes over Manual, then power to them. Secondly with the FPS myth and the whole 'spraying and praying' thing, once again the WHOLE point of getting off burst shots or taking lots of shots in a row, and Tony DOES spell this out in his book RIGHT AT THE BEGINNING, take lots of photos and delete most of them. Because MORE often than not, most of those shots will have someone's eyes closed, or coming out blurry and so on and the POINT of that is to then pick out the one or two that DID work out. Also this whole argument that 'oh real photographers don't edit their photos', what ABSOLUTE garbage. Editing photos nowadays is expected, particularly if you're shooting in RAW, and your goal in editing is to create your vision YOU saw before you take your photo. Because guess what? Cameras don't see like your eyes do (you know what I mean).
I have some decent camera software but thought I had nothing to add Fuji film simulations during editing. I was wrong (I worked out how to do it with my Fuji X RAW Studio). I now feel so liberated, as I'm one step closer to the oldschool enjoyment of photography, with one less thing to select on my camera while shooting. Ace.
Ok, now this video really got me questioning myself. In the mid 1990's, I worked about 6 months doing aerial photography for a living. This was long before anybody knew what a drone was. This was piloting my own Cessna across country to whatever state we were marketing at the time. We were shooting promotional photos of business sites doing all angles in both 35mm and with a Pentax 6X7. I rotated 2 Nikons so reloading was no problem with the 35mm but the Pentax is not fun loading with film when you are on the ground. 20 shots per roll of 220 gives you two sites before you have to reload again. Doing all this and flying the airplane, while talking to air traffic control gets to be a serious headache real fast. Combine that with the inaccuracy of GPS units in those days and no cellphones to call up the business asking for local landmarks and I had the feeling the technology of the day was not up to standard. Was I a professional photographer or a questionable pilot hangout the window shooting photos while I was supposed to be flying the airplane?
I got brought onto a company as my first "professional" gig to do photos and videos for them. Professional meaning paid or compensated. Then the person who brought me on said I wasn't a real photographer, because, up until that gig, I hadn't done any paid jobs. Nevermind that I was the one taking photos for a few local clubs. His business partner had some choice words about that, and that's how I ended up with a new camera, lens, and some other pretty Gucci gear. lol
I am slowly going blind. I am short sighted, and long sighted, plus my retina is clouding over, so Autofocus is a must for me now days. I can see well enough to drive, and shoot, but well enough to get sharp focus. Auto is a boon. I love it.
Thanks for mentioning Vivian Maier. Her photos really grab me. The composition is well done but I love the shades of gray in them. It's too bad she went unappreciated while alive but luckily the right people rescued her photos so we can enjoy them.
Speaking of Sports photography. I started working for Lifetouch School Studios in Baltimore MD in 1999 and 2000. My camera was my Dad's all manual Minolta SRT-201. No motor drive or anything else. Unlike the guy who trained me had a Nikon 35mm SLR with a motor drive and could plow through a 24 roll of film in 1 min or less. While I'm there going "click", wined to the next frame, line up my shot "click" over and over again. Lol I don't know how I managed to get usable good shots. But I did. When I got my Canon T3i in January 2012. I kept treating it pretty much the same way except I didn't need to advance the film and my 8GB SD card held alot of photos. Once I learned more features. That Canon Rebel felt like a pro camera body to me compared to that Minolta.
I have been denied entrance to some places because I was carrying a "professional" camera and cameras weren't allowed. When I pointed out that every person there carrying a cell phone was also carrying a camera, it was "explained" that they weren't carrying a "professional" camera. Some venues define a professional camera as any camera with interchangeable lenses.
When I was on Instagram, I've gotten a handful of messages from people telling me I'm not a real photographer. "Your photos would look better on film, digital is fake", "Your photos have no meaning", "Your b&w photos make me throw up" and those were just the nice ones. They're probably right though, I never saw myself as a real photographer or an artist. I'm just a lousy guy with a camera really so I took my website down and deleted my social media accounts and not I don't bother to share my work with the world anymore and now I don't have to see those comments/messages haha.
(Sorry for long message. You can just use the first para) People have told me ... 1- When I didn't have a DSLR and just took photos with a phone or a point and click, they'd say, "You dont need a DSLR" and ALL of those people had a DSLR 2- When I got my first 50mm F1.8, and after a while I wanted to get 80mm, a friend said, "you dont need 80mm, 50 is enough" 3- A friend kept asking me to get a Mirrorless, that part was fine, but then they said, THIS IS THE NEW THING, its EVERYTHING, because of the options and viewfinder and the chance to adapt more lenses, I lost it, even though I agreed with them. I was like, "Bro, sure, but I want to use both, for what both can do" 4- When I wanted to buy my first Super8, a friend said, "It's not efficient and its dated and the world is going forward, why would you want to go backwards". It's just that a Photographer/Cinematographer/Filmmaker can use whatever they want for their subject, to get a desired result, whether through auto, manual, digital, analogue, VR whatever, or draw on paper or digitally, its their choice. Others cant tell us what to use and what not to, and how. You can get an idea in your mind for a stop motion movie, either shot on digital or film or VHS or just drawings and sculptures. When we say it doesn't matter, it also means, that it matters when you want to choose something. You can choose a heavy setup or a light setup or just a point and click camera. A good photographer will take good photos with any camera and settings, tools and all are there to help get a certain kind of result. Its like when a new Instagram or Snapchat filter comes, you can use it randomly or you can get creative with it and make it matter for the story. I was watching this music video director/cinematographer/editor etc teach effects we could use in a music video to make it interesting, but even though its their choice what to use, they did not use anything creatively, that would compliment their song's story. You can do either, but a creative person would probably use all the effects for a reason sometimes. An effect of splitting faces or double exposures or overlapping/superimposing two pictures/videos in a song would really compliment the story if its about someone with multiple personality disorder or two characters they play. So I think, a good photographer would experiment, use anything they like creatively and of course if the compose it good or crop it good later, its a good photographer to me. You don't have to know all the settings, but if you do know them, they add to your options of how close your result can be to your story you want to tell. So all this bullshit about "Do everything on the shoot" or "Do most on post" are not correct, unless you know what you're doing and whatever you want to use without having to make it a rule for others
If you go into the same line I see only one logical conclusion. There were no photographers 200 years back. People draw pictures/ portraits.. Photograph is lazy people's job
I started watching awhile back and subscribed to your channel, good work. I guess by your test I am a photographer but not a professional photographer. I've been a professional image editor for well over 25 years and in graphics 48 years and yes, I got rid of Photoshop at CS5 and in fact everything Adobe, that's a story of an anal-retentive technician for another time. I semi-retired in 2020 and had some health issues most of 2021 so in that short time I amassed a personal library of over 30,000 kept images. I have nearly 6 terabytes of client files archived. As a beginner photographer I bought a Nikon D3400 for dirt money, a decent sensor, lacking the stuff to make using it to make a living easy. I tacked on a set of Nikkor lenses a f2.8 24-70mm, a f5.6 200-500mm and a f1.8 50mm prime lens, yes, I have the kit, 18-55 and 70-300 VR lenses, so I have fun. Now to the point, I am not a professional photographer because I haven't invested the effort, time or money to be able to provide proper service to clients. As such I will not sell myself as such nor will I ever do so, taking bread off of a persons table telling BS about myself is not going to happen. Photography is hard work, doing photography and providing client service is much harder honest work, not at 68, never going to happen. Keep up the good work you have honest reviews and opinions. For You Tubers! 🙂🙂 I couldn't resist.
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I guess I'm not a real photographer because I don't have a website yet. LOL!
I'll also add, Stephen King once said something along the lines of "don't let writing snobs try and tell you that you're not a real writer. I don't care if you've only sold a story to a local paper for five dollars. If someone paid you for your work, you're a real professional writer." People often mistake being "real" with being "good" at something. There's a woman in my area who heavily edits her photos to the extent that her subjects can look inhuman at times. But it sells, she's a real photographer. I mainly make money from sports photography. I shoot in and use jpeg often. I have to have photos ready in less than 24 hours and have sometimes 2-3000 photos at the end of a football game. There are many who are better than me at all of it. I love doing portraits in my spare time and try and give people price breaks for good photos or even in the case of people who aren't financially stable and have lost parents etc, I do it for free. I enjoy it greatly.
You sound like a great person.
Keep on keeping on.
I am just a beginner and no body pays for my photos, but my friends and family members do enjoy the photos I took. They keep them on their phones, make large and small prints.
great comment, so sensible!
@@Aviator168 isn't that all, photography is about? having just someone (even if it's yourself) enjoy (some) of your pictures? that's maybe a point for tony's 8 question quiz: so i'd say: 9. Has ever someone said about one of your photos: "This is nice/good looking!"
@@Tw1x5000 Yeah. I keep hearing that in my head. 😄😄
I'll be 73 years old tomorrow. I took up photography at age 70. I am having a blast. I am a real photographer. The first real photographer I ever met was my Mom. In the 1950's and 60's she took family photos with some kind of old box camera. She would hold it at waist level and look down into it. The camera only appeared on special occasions. Birthdays, weddings, holidays, etc. She took those photos with a smile and love in her heart. From time to time, we get her albums out and laugh and cry over those old, faded, black and white photos. Her love handed precious memories down to her children and continuing generations and our hearts ache and hot tears fall as we once again are allowed to view loved ones from our past. All because.......my Mom was a real photographer. God bless.
Kodak moments!❤
Beautiful. Thanks for sharing ❤
I'm disabled with severe migraines and back issues. And due to the migraines, I can't keep everything I learn in my head. That is why I come back to your videos over and over again as a refresher before going out. I will admit I fail often. But I won't give up. Thank you both for a lot of what I do know.
You're a real photographer!
When I started my BFA at university in 2004, I had to ask for special permission to use a digital SLR instead of my film camera because after a few years in the darkroom in high school the chemicals were making me sick. I got a lot of pushback. Nowadays I'm not a real photographer because I shoot with APS-C 😂
That’s interesting and touching. Glad you stuck to your guns; your body will thank you. Re: shooting APSC - I have a full frame body but more often shoot crop because those cameras are easier to carry around.
My art school back in the day had funky darkrooms that had no ventilation, and because I was a photography major, I spent days and weeks in those rooms. I seriously destroyed my sense of smell and it also affected my sense of taste. I still have a sense of both, but they are very diminished.
@@ARTIST-AT-LARGE I'm very sorry to hear that! Absolutely terrible.
We did darkroom proccessing at art college in the mid-80s and it was bad for my eyes due to the poor light and hated the smell of the chemicals
Call yourself real photographers? Pah, you're only a real photographer when using the collodian process. I hadn't developed an image properly unless my lips turned blue and I had vomited twice. I once exploded the top of my stove pipe hat when a stray spark from my clay pipe caught it. Real photographers. . . . Don't make me laugh!
Real photographers dont use lenses. They capture the light with their hands and place it onto the film.
I have followed your channel for the last two years.
This video was so perfect. I drive a garbage truck for a living. My camera bag goes with me every day. I tell everyone I’m a paid tourist, telling the stories of my days sometimes thru my photography.
I am a rookie photographer, but feel like I am living and learning every single day.
At the age of 50 I discovered what it’s like to operate a camera.
I started with my smart phone and still use it. I can’t even say how much I enjoy the process’s and the learning’s.
Thanks for being my go to channel and having the ultimate honest responses to life.
Chelsea is spot on about people who are insecure in their own skills trying to keep others out. They do this by berating and making you feel “less than”. It’s especially present on the Fuji forums (love that Fuji dig Tony!!). Grab a camera, ANY camera, get out there, and have some fun. I NEEDED to hear this today but I’ve been second guessing myself lately. Thx!!
THANK YOU FOR THIS!!!!!!! ❤❤❤ I have encountered SO MUCH of this "gate keeping" (perfect term for this). And it's so disheartening. I've since gotten over it. I'm one of those weekend warriors. I'm a middle school teacher, and one of the electives I teach is photography. But I don't have cameras for my students. So, the first lesson is "What is the best camera?" That's when they learn, "It's the one you have with you." If they have fancy DSLR cameras, they are invited to use them. If they have point and shoot cameras, they are invited to use them. For most of them, the camera they have with them is their phone camera. There's NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT!!!! My main goals for them in my class are to just get out there, start taking photos, have FUN with it, and push your boundaries. I give them a list of 22 projects they can choose from when they do their assignments, to help them accomplish these goals. And the truth is, I shoot in auto all the time. I am totally showing my students this video. Thank you!!!!
A lot of photographers are a-holes. I worked with a 16 -year-old recently who said she and her mother have been treated horribly by everyone they've worked with. The photographers were just terrible to them. She was stunned that I was nice and actually valued her input as a model.
*a lot of people are a-holes, some of them happen to be photographers
I got a surprise on that mark last year when I was setting up a senior photo shoot at a chapel. I reached out to them about doing a private shoot on the chapel grounds and then set up a date/time to meet them in person and visit the grounds. In talking with the pastor and office manager in person, both told me that I was the "most respectful photographer" they'd interacted with. Apparently they have had issues with people just... showing up without bothering to even ask beforehand, let alone schedule a date/time. My jaw was on the floor as they were telling me this...
But absolutely I also want the model's input on a shoot. I have this on an advisory page I send to all new clients and models: "Photo shoots should be collaborative. And the shoot is always better when you contribute ideas. We don't expect you to come to the shoot with a list of ideas. But ideas may come to mind as we go - we've yet to have a shoot where that wasn't the case - so be sure to share them."
One client told me where he wanted the camera, choice of backdrop, lighting should be, etc. I listened for a while. After he was done, I got up and left the studio. If you know what you want, then you don't need me.
I can attest to that! I was a wedding DJ for 28 years, and some of them were so far up their own behinds that you couldn't tell them anything.
I was at a large event shooting with an APS-C camera in full auto. Another photographer asked me why I was shooting in one particular mode.
I've since retired the APS-C and bought a used full frame camera because that's all I could afford. Another person came to me and boasted that they are using a mirror-less camera.
Photography is a hobby. And as long as it makes my family and friends happy, who cares what others think.
And yes I use LightRoom!
I am always amazed at how people feel that processing photos is cheating, something a “real” photographer would never do. Yet those who criticize shoot JPEGS that the computer in their camera is processing. 😊 Thanks for pointing out how much “processing” was done by the greats. Besides editing is part of the fun.
Photography is an art, and like any other piece of art, it is done when the artist says that it is done. You don't have to like it, but you have to respect their right to do it. Unless you are entering a contest with specific rules that limit what you can do, or you are passing something off as documentation that isn't, it is your piece of art.
I used to try dodging and shading in the darkroom back in the day, but of course you only get to see the result once you have developed and fixed the print and can view it in the light, too late to change anything. So much better with digital.
"Processing" into Darkroom was of course done a long time ago. But i do think we do have to make a difference, to post process a particular picture to your minds eye, your pre-visualisation of a specific photograph, compared to the "i'll fix that in post..." crowd, which is a difference. 🙂I don't want to think about countless hours, i've lost inside PS.
How’s this for irony? I’ve been ridiculed in the past for “not editing enough.” Not fixing said corner color, righting said over-exposure. When the reality is they were decisions. People can be so fickle.
@@thedirtywoodsman604 Well, i personal edit only pictures here & there, as i had previsualized it into my minds eye. Usually subtle, sometimes a bit more. But think about current smartphones with all their A.I. image "enhancements" and such - the grass is being greener than into reality, the leafes, and everything else oversharpened, etc...and the whole picture usually out of a phone looks more like a smarties version of a real photo, than the photograph itself. Into short, it's digital image fakery, which i have no use for it.
This was so great you guys!! Thank you!! It's all about lifting everyone up, not putting more barriers up. It's art, not Health & Safety. 🙌
Well said. 👏👏👏
You guys are a scream, highly entertaining, and very good at what you do, both with cameras and with informed YT presentation. I can see why this channel is so popular.
Chelsea is a riot. Tony has fun moments. Tony is a good tech -head and very good at explaining things. But Chelsea should have her own talk show.
One of them is kinda thicc too.
I find them accessible, entertaining, informative, and nonjudgemental, so it's nice for people learning to be able to go somewhere where photographers teach them things without being mean.
I think Hemingway’s definition of a writer applies in part. “Did you write yesterday? Are you writing today? Do you plan to write tomorrow?” Add a dash of Chelsea’s intent / reflection on improving the output, and you’ve got the winning package, even as a weekend warrior.
Re the old saying "Those who can, do; those who cannot, teach" - I spent decades in computer networking, doing and teaching. Here is my experience of it: "Who can can, do; those who understand, teach".
What makes a real photographer is a joy and will to take beautiful pictures. How you do it and what equipment to use, is a personal choice, but photography is a feeling, it is not about right or wrong, well in some cases it is, but in most cases it is a feeling and that is what we feel makes a "real" photography and magic happen. Great video, thank you for sharing.
I wont accept anyone who uses a smartphone as main device to call themselves a photographer, ESPECIALLY not smartphones that use so call "A.I." to manipulate the images.
There's a hard limit to what a "real" photographer is VS a social media content creator. Let's be honest about that.
@@The-Cat that's a good point. I do agree that pressing a button on the phone is not photography and I do draw the line there as well, but as far as cameras or other equipment, that is where some photographers tend to get caught up with what is real and what is not, so I do not put a value on camera or lights as being "real" photographer, but yes, not just pressing the button on a smartphone. I agree on that.
@@The-Cat - unless that person doesn't have any money....
@@The-Cat Interesting. I only started photography about 4 years ago and bought an APS-C camera. Then I watched TH-cam and learned that to get great pictures, professionals use full-frame cameras. So I bought a brand new Sony a7R IVA, with a Sony 24mm F/1.4, Sony 16-35mm, Tamron 35-150 F/2-2.8, Sony 200-600, Sigma 18-50mm, Sony 1.4x teleconverter, expensive tripods and backpacks. I have to admit, some of my images actually look surprisingly okay.
But I still take pictures with my iPhone when I am out taking wildlife and did not bring my landscape lenses when I see something nice. And I often enjoy those pictures just as much as I do my expensive gears.
Honestly, with the exception of my wildlife lens (because of the reach), if I can go back and do it again, I wouldn't buy any of these stuff and just use my iPhone. I still have to look at my scene, compose my shots, click on a button, edit them. And surprise -- most photo editors today have "AI" in them.
I guess you can lump me in the "not a photographer" group for wishing I knew then what I know now. Photography is an expensive hobby/passion. I love taking pictures on my iPhone as much as I do my "pro" gears. And, blasphemy, I sometimes go out with just my iPhone as my main gear. I think this was the point of this video, don't you think?
@@kualilo as soon as A.I is involved, it stops being photography and it becomes an image generator
I actually started my journey into photography by following a number of professionals that were inspiring. One, that I will not name, made a TikTok or a Reel, that claimed real photographers do not shoot higher than single shot and made reference to "back in the day". I commented on how ludicrous it was to not use the exceptional capabilities of the equipment you spent thousands of dollars and have not watched a video from them since. To me the purpose of photography is to capture a moment in time that can be shared and enjoyed forever. Immortalized. However you manage to create that moment or for what purpose isn't the point and no one way makes you more "Pro" than the next person. Just my 2 cents.
Right! And they no doubt feel that you should build a house with rocks, logs and hand fashioned wooden nails!
Back in the day sucked. You took 12, 24, 36 or more exposures, depending on how much money you wanted to burn that day and had to wait to find out how badly you did.
Nowadays, you have absolutely INSTANT feedback on what you did right or wrong, and to not use that capability to take dozens* of shots of a good set-up at different settings and with different angles or approaches to learn how to get better is utter foolishness.
*uh, just remember to clean out your storage afterwards...
@@nikytamayo The other great advantage with digital is that you can change your ISO setting as conditions change. You used to be stuck with whatever ISO film you had loaded in the camera.
A couple of years ago I took your advice on photographing flying birds. It drastically improved the quality of the pictures I took. One of the qualities of a real photographer is the willingness to learn from others and to give advice to those in need. I am not a professional photographer. But I am a hobbyist and I take it seriously. Thank you for your sharing your knowledge with us.
Gosh, 8 out of 8. I bet if Tony had 50 questions, I'd still answer every one with a yes... Thanks Tony and Chelsea. Always fun and informative.
What a breath of fresh air this was, I have been shooting sports part time professionally for 15 years around my 9-5, looking forward to retirement from the 9-5 side. When I first started started I had entry level gear and worked hard to get better at capturing “the finished image”, anyway I could.
I laugh at those that try to tell people only shooting raw, no crop one frame at a time means your a professional with a certain type of equipment…. If today I told the NCAA teams, newspaper and pro teams that I cover events for that, I’d never work. You get an assignment and as Chelsea so we’ll said, work to intentionally get the finished image your after. I have never had a editor or client tell me do it this way or I can’t use you…. It’s more like this is the finished image format I need by this time & this here is the schedule of events. Different gear can be helpful, however it comes down to one thing, get the image that is needed, and you do that with intent…. One of the many sports I shoot is ice hockey, a very challenging sport to cover, one of my favorite hockey photographers is Bruce Bennet, last I heard he was shooting with R5, jpeg, mechanical shutter & cropping…. And laughed even harder about not helping people, because sadly your a bit correct in that aspect. I actually go the other way, as I have a memory & if experienced photographers had not taken a minute to talk, answer questions and offer guidance when I was first starting, I would not be as fortunate as I am today. Please continue to put out great content, along with topics such as this, it helps many people with not only technical aspects of photography, but the mental aspects of taking photos and sharing them & working to get better - with intention / cheers from the West Coast CA
I've given this some thought before and my conclusion was that a photographer is a journey not a destination. The moment you become a photographer is the first time you notice a photo. As a child you will see lots of photos but one day you'll notice a photo and you'll stop whatever you are doing and spend a moment thinking about that photo. As a photographer you have just been "born". Your journey has begun, even if it'll be years before you own your own camera. Obviously this means that most people are photographers but we are all at different stages of our journey.
Absolutely correct, Ivan! "[being] a photographer is a journey not a destination", is a motto I will be fitting to my office wall! Brilliant take. Also, your excellent construct of a photographer being born and beginning that journey succinctly describes what I went through. Great comment, Ivan.
Great video. A "real" photographer is someone that can use a camera and get good photographs and enjoys it, no matter what the gear is. Three of my favourite photos I ever took were of a Parasol mushroom, Silver Y Moth and a Field Grasshopper which I took with a Vivitar 4345 compact camera just after buying it. I went into a field the same day, took out the camera and got the shots. The Vivitar 4346 had very few manual controls. Even to this day with better cameras and lenses, I have not been able to get as good a photo of a grasshopper as I did with that Vivitar camera.
In early 2020 before everything went into lockdown, I held an event where I showed off prints of many of my photographs to the public. and got lots of great comments on them. Quite a few were taken in JPEG only as the photos were taken back when I just started using DSLRs in the mid to late 00s and I didn't really know about shooting/editing RAW so I shot everything in JPEG for several years. The gear you use doesn't matter, its results that matter. If the gear you use can give you the shots you are after, why does someone else care what you use beyond being a bit interested in how you got the shots you did?
As you both pointed out a "real" photographer takes photos with intention and purpose. It's so easy to get caught up in gear and settings but telling a story intentionally is what makes a photographer. I struggle with that quite a bit. Being in technology I tend to focus on the technical aspects of photography rather than telling a story. I need to work on the artistic side of my photography for sure.
I know photographers who have a new camera every two years. The latest and greatest. They never really learn how to use any of them, and their photos show it! On the other hand I know a guy who is still shooting a film camera he bought in the nineties. He knows that camera inside and out, exactly how it will respond under any light or weather conditions. His photos are spectacular. I asked him if he was planning on buying a modern camera. He laughed and said, "Sure, someday, when this one stops working, or they stop making film!"
I get that. I look at some of my photos and struggle to find a story. Good luck to you!
Wow.
Chelsea, you're observations that start at 18:22 about what makes a "real photographer" are perfect. Thank you. I started to realize I was a real photographer when i was using my Blackberry Curve to take some photos and that growing photographic self-awareness led me to now taking great photos with top notch gear (just a 55mm f/1.8 prime, a 24-105mm f/4 zoom and 2 a7r3 bodies--one for each lens) that I love. I am an award winning photographer who has not sold any work but love what I create (and how I create it) and I still love learning about photography. Both of you have been a part of my learning process for about 7 years now, so thank you.
Tremendous respect to both of you for having this channel for this long!🎉
Photography has many aspects to it (salesmanship, art, craftsmanship, deadline, technicality), and which ever ones you focus on, for your own pleasure or for a client, is up to you. No photographer can pay full attention to every single aspect, so you have to prioritise what makes sense for your workflow. This applies to every art or craft, of course.
Great video. I love Chelsea's definition of a photographer as being anyone who takes a picture with intent. I think the purpose of the video is to understand a difference between those who take pictures and those who are photographers and I think Chelsea's definition is a perfect differentiator.
This is a common issue along many hobby/professions. I like Chelsea's qualification of "intent" and I would go further and say: if a person is a real if they are intentionally trying to achieve the results of said , and have spent some intentional energy on how to achieve desired or necessary results in the preset or past.
Cooking has been like this for a long time where casuals have been able to achieve results with easier techniques, better technology, or just automation/pre-packaging. What makes a chef versus a person who just cooks to live -- even if they cook for others? Photography is basically there with everyone having a camera phone. We don't want to be pompus, but there really is a difference worth the title or qualifier "photographer" versus a person who just wants to snap pictures with their phone. How do you get there?
I don't think you do easily, but I offer a suggestion to qualify someone further as a hobbyist or professional: if you practiced the trade not because you desired the result, but because you wanted to ensure you could produce the result, I'd call you more of a professional or at least hobbyist. For example, if you cook something you don't need or want to eat but wanted to know "I can make this dish now"; or you took photos of something you didn't need or want, but because you wanted to for practice.
It usually easier to separate two participants in a field by looking at the amount of effort they put into learning, amount of knowledge they gained, or amount success they achieved. Call an 10 year old with a phone camera who's taking photos a photographer, but I will come right back and point out that the energy and resources spent are different than someone who's enrolled in classes or a degree; who's spending a lot of time on TH-cam learning; who's going out on the field many times a day to practice and more. This is where I put most phone camera users; if you can only be bothered to pull out your phone camera when you want to snap a pic and barely spare a thought as to why it came out poorly; you entirely don't care about understanding what the limits of your phone camera are; you can pull out your phone hundreds of more times, and snap thousands of more photos, than another photographer and I wouldn't call you a solid photographer. Inevitably, that many snaps will have a solid result here or there, but
Separately, I've heard the idea of a professional in a field is this: a professional doesn't necessarily produce the best result, they are extremely reliable at producing the necessary result. I call photography a hobby of mine because I've spent considerable time practicing without regard to the value of what I'm creating other than pursuit of the knowledge and capability. I'm good enough to produce results in a lot of cases, or at least clearly understand what skill, knowledge, equipment, or even effort I lack to get it. In that sense, I *could* be a professional at will, but choose not to be.
Thank you for addressing this. I find it odd that some call out influencers as non photographers. I have honestly been very inspired to take more photos based on “influencers” and those I like on social platforms. For example I really resonate with Peter McKinnon’s dark and moody style. Without influences/influencers how else would we learn and hone in our skills?
Added to this, I also have learned a great deal and been encouraged by both of your hard work in keeping the photography industry both real and accessible. Much gratitude and respect to you both! 📸🙂
I started my journey about 10 or so years ago.
I begun with a very basic DSLR (650D) and then upraded a couple of times, got a couple of L Lenses, got lights, gear, tripods and whatnot.
Not to mention, in the beggining I used very very basic settings, and gradually tried more and more advanced features.
Today, I find myself not "NEEDING" ANY of the advanced features of my camera, but they sure do help a lot.
I don't "need" autofocus. But I LIKE autofocus. Helps a ton.
I don't "need" raw. But it does help a lot in post.
I don't "need" most of the luxuries my camera has. But they sure make the whole thing more enjoyable.
( One of the very VERY strong reasons, I got my first camera, was that I liked the camera, as a gadget first. I find the technology behind cameras, fascinating. So that's one more reason for me, to not ignore the technology in my hands. )
My point of view is:
A Real Photographer, is ANYONE who is using a PHOTO they took, to tell a "Story". It doesn't matter if you shot someone at the street using full Auto mode, with a Samsung Galaxy, or if you are shooting the MilkyWay using 25.000$ equipement with star trackers, modified bodies, and settings that give the average photographer a headache.
A PHOTO, is a PHOTO, and the one that took it, is a PHOTOGRAPHER.
You two are so fun to watch :) My Mom, Sister, and my ex wife thinks I am a photographer, so, yes! I have made it! Cheers!
I always understood a "bridge camera" to be an oftentimes smallish camera with advanced settings (like those on a DSLR), but with a fixed, permanently-attached lens.
I recently “discovered” Derek Forss’ channel and have been blown away by his photos shown on screen. He shoots micro four thirds, he uses kit lenses, he uses P mode when appropriate, etc. All kinds of things no “real” photographer would ever do. His photos are as beautiful as his storytelling. Thanks Tony and Chelsea!
He's one of the reasons I switched to micro four thirds.
Sooooo right on, guys. Thank you. If you create images that make people smile, that promote crying, anger, laughter, that make people care about the subject, if you take pictures and when you look at them you laugh. Many years ago --1960s-- my good friend Marsha had a little black box Rolli 2x2 camera, not a Hasselblad. She was an art student at UC Berkeley. She developed and printed her photos. She had no illusions about becoming a "great" photographer. But she had a special eye for image. We'd go on shoots together and shoot the same subjects. My shots were ho hum, hers were spectacular. She became a ceramicist, jewelry designer and painter and has lived without poverty, off her art to the present day. Ask her if she is a "REAL' artist, she will tell you she just likes creating stuff and laugh "Let others worry about what makes a real artist." or photographer.
LOL thank you so much for this Tony and Chelsea!! I've never felt like a "real" photographer either, it's a hobby. But after answering yes to 8 out of 8, I'm feeling pretty damn good about myself right now 🥰 Love seeing such a positive conversation around this!
Yeah it’s funny because I’ve been taking pictures for 6-7 years and I just realized I probably can’t call myself a beginner anymore.😅
Here in Brazil people use to say "Professional Photographer" or "professional camera" to anything big or expensive. So simple to understand that professionals are those one making money and that's all. Many of them are using old DSLR and without backup equipment. AND, most important, a lot of times amateurs photographers are who really buy expensive gears.
If I didn’t believe you two were “real” photographers, I won’t be here … I’ve been watching you guys for years. Love ya!!
I live down the street from Clyde’s studio and run into him occasionally, really a great guy …
🙏🙏
I LOVE THIS!! I knew I was a real photographer when… As a direct sales consultant, I used to travel to conferences and conventions with my team. There would always be an after 5 or formal event and I would be asked to take pictures of individuals or the group. I COULD NOT just take their picture. I had to pose them properly so I could see everyone’s face. Then I had to make sure they were in a flattering light that didn’t put shadows in their eye sockets. Hold your chin up/down/look this way/no, look that way!😂 I’d ALWAYS hear “Would you just take the picture?!” I would get so flustered at how the photos looked I never wanted to be asked to take any more. I later decided to follow my passion, and be a professional (i.e., paid) photographer and I’ve been happy ever since.
My favorite one is "your camera takes nice pictures"
Great video. I struggle with accepting that I am a "real photographer" but your quiz made me realize I am. Thx!! I would take a sponsorship in a heartbeat... it's one of my goals. I also would influence if I had the balls to do it, but I'm new to the game. I've only been shooting for about 3 years. Bottom line is, I love shooting and editing and that's all that matters. I get to see some amazing things and travel frequently, so I shoot what I see and share them with the world. I have a fairly cheap kit, but I have intention and a willingness to keep learning. Thank y'all for clarifying. I appreciate your work! And Tony, thx for also helping me pass my part 107!!
My response to "Your camera takes nice pictures" is "thanks, I taught it all it knows."
@@rbolwell lol. I'm stealing that.
I’m a fulltime photographer, but when I do my private pictures, I love it to just have a RX100VII and the G5XII with me. It’s always funny to see other photographers looking down at me, like ohhh are you serious with you toys?! You’re not a real photographer.
These „toys“ let me feel free.
A lot of photographers seem to have no idea, how mighty these cameras are. I sell these pictures all the time and no client ever knows, which camera shot these pictures.
So who cares, it’s a camera so it’s a tool.
I have experienced a similar thing while using the tiny Fuji X-E3 on my tripod. Like the small camera would be a toy
I’ve had the same experience when going to shoot musicians at clubs. The guys with full-frame rigs just look at you like you are this scummy audience member. They then try to block you from getting your shot because they realize that you have the perfect angle.
Thank you so much for this video. As a beginning recreational photographer starting out several years ago, I did not know anything about my camera, how to shoot photos, what the different settings mean, finding my style, etc., I took a digital photography class. I had a fantastic instructor and he never made anyone feel less of a photographer. The students had all variety of cameras, Canon, Sony, Nikon, point and shoot, dslr etc.
One can only learn from real photographers, i.e., those who have experience and knowledge who are willing to share so beginners like me can learn. Who else am I suppose to learn from? My pets don't know how to use a camera.
I subscribe to several photographer's TH-cam channels, yours being one of them to continue the learning process. I thank you very much for being great teachers and photographers. Each photographer brings something to the table that interests me and I love learning how to take better photos. Meaning learning what settings will get me the outcome I seek.
I have used equipment to direct photons to a surface that allowed me to process and store, a two dimensional point cloud like 'graph' representing the state of those photons. Later, humans were able to view that graphic, and easily understand what the original objects were that those photons interacted with, before I captured and processed them.
Good one! 😂
Here's one for you - "Real photographers don't take photographs, . . . .
they GIVE photographs, . . . .
to the world!
Whether you're a "real" photographer or not, if something gets you out of your own way for a while, it's real for you, and that's all that counts.
And I remember when Ansel died, they auctioned off his 1977 Cadillac, which he drove to on nature assignments. We all need to eat, I guess. ❤️
I appreciate this. I’m always self conscious around other photographers thinking I’m going to get judged for using an APS-C camera.
Once you are a influencer you can’t call yourself Photographer !
Yesss, people say that one all of the time. It makes zero sense!
Most influencers pay a photographer to take their photos anyway
I grew up as a kid using a Kodak Brownie roll film camera, eventually moving to my 1st 35mm film camera, then a Canon EOS 300 35mm film camera, and also a 2 1/4" Mamiya twin lens reflex camera.
I progressed on to processing film, both B&W and colour prints in my home darkroom as well as E4 & E6 transparencies.
Oh how I longed to be able to process in "the light"!
Then along came my first DSLR, a Canon EOS 3OOD & computer editing. Wow! My dream came true!
I have moved through Canon EOS models, 500D, 70D, 80D's & now have a pair of 90D's. (Not moving to mirrorless yet, not worn out the shutters on the 90D''s!)
I prefer the APS-C for ease of carrying and I like the crop it gives on my 100-400mm Canon EF L and Sigma 150-600mm C lenses for wildlife.
I edit my shots on a PC as I want them to be. If others like them, great. If not, great!
If any of the above means I'm not a "real photographer", then so be it. I don't care. I'll continue to not be a "real photographer" until I'm unable to be so.
I'm mid 70's and intend to be a "non real" photographer "for ever".
Thank you both, Chelsea & Tony, for your show which is both informative, educational, inspirational and has so much common sense content.
Regards from England, UK.
Look at Chelsea's face as Tony goes off about a minute twenty! Pure Gold! Wait, why does Tony get his own camera angle and not Chelsea??
She's concerned about Tony's bokah rage, we all are.
He shocks me sometimes!
A real photographer is not afraid to embrace the idea of deleting a picture.
Great discussion, spot on. I shoot mostly for my own entertainment, occasionally ending up with a quality keeper, but I also answered Yes to several of Tony's quiz questions. If someone were to inform me that I'm not a "real" photographer, my very overt response to them would be "who cares."
As for the Qs, I answered YES to all (I can remember when I broke equipment, and am using time of day, whether app, and specific locations - even hooked to some specialized groups for news of interest, and recently started trying to pay attention to wind directions). I am exclusively a wildlife photographer (my preference). My first photos, I was asked dismissively by a relative, if I can quote the ISO, SS, and F# that I used in each photo. My answer was: "If you like it, what does it matter? --If you don't like it, what does it matter?". In my view it is the same for all art. BUT, am I good enough to start feeling like a professional? -well.. -I don't make a living out of it, so obviously, I'm not "a professional", but the interesting bit is - "Can I produce professional looking photos? " - And that is the crux of things, at least for me, but I think for a lot more DP enthusiasts. -And yes, I know it's like cycling: If you feel it's easy, you're in decline.
I believe what is important in all fields of art is the composition, balance, lighting and the finished work. Also one must realize that those who make a living with photography as in other art fields is a business, so one must get the word out by using social media, like making you tube videos, using Facebook, advertising ,having a website, writing books and teaching others is part of the trade and business of artist.
I was really thrilled when I started using PhotoShop in 2004, back then I had my film digitized when developed by a photo lab, so I could use it, since could not afford a digital camera when they came out, it save me hours of darkroom time when making a print, the expense of chemical and a reduction of pollution when dodging and burning a print, then came Lightroom and I really like it too. I like learning new thing when it come to photography even though I have been using cameras since 1968. Since the cost of film photography is drastically going up, I got my first digital camera which is a Canon EOS 2000D a few month ago. What I really like about these camera, you don't have to wait to see what the picture looks like it can be seen just after you take that picture, another thing I like about the digital camera is that bracketing can be set on them and you don't have to play with the f stops on the lens as on a film camera, the light meters are great on them, so you don't have to have one to carry around. Once I get comfortable with this camera I would like to go to medium format in digital like the Canon EOS 90D especially since I shoot still pictures.
That's just it, isn't it? Fewer and fewer photographers make "a living" at photography (there are certainly some, such as wedding and event photographers), but must supplement their photography by teaching others how to photograph, by writing articles, books, running TH-cam channels, guiding photography "ecotours" and giving lectures and classes. Making a living strictly from ones photographs is becoming increasingly difficult.
I like Chelsea's idea of what a photographer is. Because it is really all about taking photos with intent. So if you do take photos with intent, and feel like you are a photographer, then you are. The big difference however is weather or not you're a professional photographer. A professional photographer make money off of photographing. Which is a big difference. It doesn't necessarily mean the photos are better than a non-professional photographer, more often than not they are, but not necessarily because the non-professional shooters are bad a photography, but when you can make a living as a photographer, you get to shoot all day, which tend to build the skill level more than those doing it as a hobby.
And as a professional photographer the one thing I hear is, you're not a real photographer because you don't have a photography degree from a fancy university or something like that. Well, I don't, but I have shot half a million photos in my life, I have several thousand shots published, I have sold prints and I have a turnover equivalent of several hundred thousand dollars a year from photography alone.
So I tend to say I went to TH-cam university to study photography. I learned from great photographers teaching the craft. They most certainly can do, and not just teach. Photography isn't about credentials. It's only about the photos. Gear doesn't count either. Nor the process you took to get to the finished photo. If the finished photo is great. The finished photo is great. Doesn't matter if you used 10 year old gear, 3 different software processing solutions and it only looks good on screen. If it looks great, it is great.
When I introduce myself as a Wildlife Photographer, some ask if I can live of that: Yes, I can. Not because I am that good but because I am retired.
I remember a quote from Jared saying along the lines of “it’s like getting mad at automobiles because back it your day, you were riding on horseback”
I think a lot of these gatekeeping are born from fear of change.
LOL 😂 This is the first time I realize where the name ‘Lightroom’ comes from. - Funny thing is, some of the best photos that I have ever taken where so spontaneous that without any auto settings these would have never been created at all. But I have no problem not being a good photographer. 😊 Thank you Chelsea & Tony for your awesome content! 🙏☺️
Great vid you guys, and right on. You beat me to it! I had the making of a video like this on my list, as I’m starting to hear it all…”I use film and take PHOTOGRAPHS…you guys use digital and take PICTURES”. Gheeezz…
Peter Mckinnon is a fine lad and was the first guy I found to make tutorials. I just searched for something like " canon street photography tutorial" and the man wiped the drool from my face and gave me the 101 of everything. Later on in life I went down the wildlife photography route and I watch a lot of Simon D'Entremont, but my point is that you should be like a sponge and watch many different youtubers and learn from them. Some may have nice editing skills you can apply to your photography, some have great tips on how to actually shoot great pictures and others are great at giving you location tips. No point in disrespecting anybody, there are many different paths that appeal to many different people and it's all cool.
I became interested in photography a few years ago and bought an M6MarkII, it wasn’t long before I wanted a FF camera. I experimented and enjoyed taking pictures. I made a couple videos but it didn’t interest me as much. Fast forward to today, I saved up and bought an R6MarkII. I started capturing the small town I live in at various times and events and shared a few on social media. One day, a business owner in town messaged me and asked me if I was a photographer. He also asked to purchase some of my images. I have seen some of my images on display (With My Permission) around town. As much as I like photography as a hobby… I still don’t know if I am a photographer. I’m a guy who likes to capture images that interest me, I have sold some of my images, some are on public display, I can answer yes to most of the questions you asked… but to me, I’m just a guy who likes to take pictures of things that interest him. Side Note: Just a coincidence but most of the images on display were actually captured with the M6MarkII, not the R6MarkII.😂
I think of myself to be a semi-professional/professional photographer, mostly because it's currently my secondary income stream. But I am a photographer. Period. As well as many other things - a painter, a vanlifer, an environmenalist, a home cook, I eat, I sleep, etc. etc. etc. I went to art school in the 70s and majored in photography, so I went from analog for decades to digital in the past fifteen years or so. I have used film cameras, point and shoots, dSLRs and my iPhone. I love to mentor. I use Photoshop. I use a lot of Auto Settings most of the time and only sometimes do I use full manual, because whatever mistakes I make with the camera I can fix in editing. I don't miss the darkroom. I love taking images. I get overwhelmed by the number of images digital affords me to take compared to film. I've always thought that I am a *real* photographer.
I've always thought that people who shame others for their gear are insecure. I give them a lot of space. I used to work in Tech and I've experienced a lot of one upmanship and tech shaming in the bro-culture, and I don't have time for it.
Overuse or constant use of filters is the only thing that I look down on as a longtime amateur photographer. Thank you Tony and Chelsea.
Loved this!!! I guess for all these years “I’m not a real photographer”. Thank you for doing this!! Thank you Chelsea for giving me a new term “Gatekeeper” I love that!!! Appreciate your videos!! 👍🏼
I am a real photographer because…..when my husband and I plan our vacations, I research the area for things I want to photograph. Are there wildlife sanctuaries in the area? What about waterfalls? Is it the right time of year for wildflowers? I’m a hobbyist and I enjoy constantly learning more about photography and continually improving. I enjoy watching your posts. Thanks!
Real photographers don't take pictures
I do often think of "real wildlife photographers" as those who license a large number of images to publications and advertising agencies. I guess I'm a bit of a gatekeeper, but I do see a huge difference between those who just do wildlife photography for fun and those who take enough marketable images to make a living, or a significant portion of a living, at it. I suppose I should say, "commercially successful wildlife photographers" instead of "real wildlife photographers". That would be a more precise and accurate way of gatekeeping.
When people I know or don't know see me with a camera they just assume I'm a photographer. Never been told I wasn't a photographer. What ever you do in life, there is always snobbery. If you intentionally create images with any camera you're a photographer. Great video guys. Thanks for addressing this.
My best, oldest buddy in the world (who I sold some of my old gear to when I upgraded), regularly reminds me that I am a photographer, and a pro to boot. I make some money off of my work (not even enough to pay for the gear I own), but as my friend says, the photographs I take are high quality, many people greatly enjoy them, some people buy them, some people pay me to shoot, and I take pride in my work and am always trying to improve my skills. MY problem, is that I don't think that I'm good enough, but that is part of what drives me to improve. When I look back on photos I took five years ago, I know I have improved since then, and it's not just due to using better equipment than I was five years ago. I've been shooting since the early '70s (I still own and use the Olympus OM-1 I bought when I was in high school) and I spent countless hours in the darkroom in my parents' basement. I'm now shooting with a Nikon Z9 and using Adobe and Topaz products for post production, and it feels like cheating a lot of the time, but I'm consistently getting images I could never have gotten before. I've paid my dues, lived through the incredible evolution of photo technology, continuously improved my craft, and yet I have to keep reminding myself that I've earned the title of "real photographer."
Always fun to tune into you guys! If you like taking photos... you're a photographer. Done.
Definitely the processing! I’ve been told many times that I process my photos too much. I would describe my photos as neo-pictorialism with dark/spooky/gothic themes, so it involves a lot of textures, extreme adjustments of brightness and contrast, and a lot of dodging and burning.
I love you two. There’s so much judgement and criticism out there, but you teach and encourage and provide a safe place for students like me to exhale. You’re calm, you’re funny, and you share so much knowledge, and for it I only spent $2017.99! Haha, that was for the GREAT book SDP which I absolutely love, and for the Nikkor 105 1.4 lens that Chelsea reviewed and made me HAVE to buy!! Thanks Tony and Chelsea. Real photographers!! ❤
I love this. Kind of embarrassed that I have caught myself thinking this "not a real photographer" about others and myself at times.
I have become more of "if you were there and managed to capture it, that is real photography."
I have no idea what would qualify one as a "real" photographer but I do know that an eye for composition counts for a lot more than your gear and knowledge of advanced camera settings. I've sold pictures from trips to Yosemite and across Nebraska and Utah as well as pictures from around my town. Many of which were taken with an older Sony point and shoot with a 16x zoom and minimal manual settings. But I learned to use all that the camera had to give and I have a good eye for composition and would simply get myself into position to make the most of what my camera could do. I never tried to sell them but when I would take a portfolio to work to show people the trips or what I had seen people asked if they could buy some. I take pictures and never worry about what title anyone wants to assign to me. Heck, I'm a terrible painter when I compare myself to those I consider great painters but somehow I paint pictures people like because they buy them. I think in any hobby or profession we tend to worry too much about what our peers think and not enough about what our clients think or want. I'm a physical therapist by trade and often new graduates wonder why I use such basic terminology when discussing issues with my patients. I tell them because I'm not worried about what another therapist thinks of my explanations. I'm worried about my patient understanding what they need to understand in order to benefit from our session.
Great video!
The narrowest (and at the same time broadest) definition I've heard: A photographer is someone who gets paid to take pictures. Paradoxically, the "most real photographers" by this definition are some of my friends who have worked as studio photographers all their lives and now hate even the word "photography" and groan in pain when anyone tries to talk to them about it.
On a serious note, I've seen pictures taken by completely "non-photographers" that are simply brilliant, and it really doesn't matter if they consider themselves a photographer or not.
Finally, it seems to me that saying someone isn't a real photographer is mostly about "professional envy" and/or a perception of one's own ineptitude.
Something to potentially discuss: photography is evolving to be less technically difficult and with mirrorless and seeing the final product as you press the shutter opens up the field for people who aren’t technically skilled but have a much more creative mindset.
I think we’d be surprised with the number of “pros” who aren’t super technical - which no longer matters to get the shot.
Yes, it's now much easier to get a proper exposure and focus. That allows you to concentrate on other, IMO, more important aspects of photography like light and composition.
Some old timer profesional photographers seem frustrated by this, and I know exactly why. Now, you have to go beyond just having sharp, well exposed photos to get paid. Many don't do that very well, and it's hard for them to succeed in this environment. They don't want to have to update or upgrade their skills.
I have little time for that perspective.
Just came across this and found it so interesting. In thd UK the most common message from photographers I come across is “ If your not shooting in full manual then your effectively in auto mode. Using aperture priority is where I work mostly with exposure compensation and I find it so frustrating when people don’t understand the control over DOF ISO etc when shooting in aperture priority mode.
You guys touched on everything that I have encountered since I started photography. I know a few people that can shoot pics with a cellphones like they are conducting a symphony orchestra. They are so positive and a joy to be around. I stay away from anyone that nothing good to say about photography. It is my therapy. It stays on my mind all the time. Thanks to the you guys for all of your tutorials and advice.
Amazing... and spot on. Thank you for this video. Rearranging before/during a shoot, moving the subject, tidying up the clutter in the foreground/background etc are all on par with editing.
"F8 and be there" has been a mantra of mine for decades. The technical aspects of photography never came easy to me. Nor did my my education. I struggled with all of it until I heard "F8 and be there"! I loved taking pictures enough that nothing got in my way. When I heard the mantra "F8 and be there" it released me from the shackles of technical know how and put me on the path of just going with my instinct, my creative persona, my soul. It freed me!
I joined a camera club in the last couple of weeks as now clocking up 3 years as a photographer I felt I needed help.
Last week my new skill in developing film, i shoot film mainly, 1 member asked if they would show them todays ways of developing at home as he had not done it for decades.
Tomorrow, tuesday, I take my R6 with my 16, 35 and 50 mm RF's to shoot light trails with my club.
Whatever and however you shoot..... ENJOY IT and share.
You are so right. David Hurn, one of the first Magnum photographers (since the mid to late 1960s) was interviewed a few years ago on his life as a photographer. He still works as well as taking shots just for himself. He now uses a Fujifilm, fixed lens, mirrorless camera. he uses auto settings and autofocus, who could possibly claim that David Hurn is not a real photographer?
When i first start taking photo, i remember the first video i watch is about aperture taught by Tony. Thanks a lot for your free lesson. Its been five years since
I took a history of photography college course, from a professor who owns a camera and actively take photos but he says he is not a photographer. (A little silly) I think it’s because he has an understandings and respect for the art of photography. To each their own. I always enjoy your videos Tony and Chelsea
This may be my favorite video you have ever done! I love that you made it clear photography is a big enough space for all of us to work, learn, and play with different gear, different techniques and different motives for shooting.
I started photography at age 19, I’m 48 now. A very elderly and retired “real photographer” GAVE me an old Pentax film camera and several lenses. For FREE! Some of the first amazing pics I took was of some exotic deer on a ranch near our house in Texas. One of the best days of my life! And I’ve been at ever since. I gave up photography 10 years ago when my home was burglarized and they took my Canon DSLR. However I’m back at it with another camera I am having a blast! And oh yeah, I have made less than $700 in my photography. I make the rest of my money in architecture. But all the time, people ask me “will you do my wedding? Graduation? Quinceañera?” 🤣 thank you for this video! Loved it!
The only "real photographer" don't do is not taking photos
I agree with pretty much ALL of these myths you said Tony and Chelsea, and it's ridiculous. ESPECIALLY the Auto and the FPS point you said.
Firstly WHAT does it matter if someone uses an Auto mode like Program, Aperture Priority, Shutter Priority, Full Auto to get off a picture? The whole point of using Auto or Priority modes (particularly the Priority modes), is you take a photo, and IF it doesn't turn out the way you want it to, change that particular setting and try again. Just because someone uses something OTHER THAN full Manual, that does NOT make them a bad photographer, and I am sick of people saying that. Because photography as Tony and Chelsea said is NOT about the settings as much as it is about ALL the other things that goes with photography, like composition, lighting and so on. If people prefer to shoot in Auto or one of the Semi-Auto modes over Manual, then power to them.
Secondly with the FPS myth and the whole 'spraying and praying' thing, once again the WHOLE point of getting off burst shots or taking lots of shots in a row, and Tony DOES spell this out in his book RIGHT AT THE BEGINNING, take lots of photos and delete most of them. Because MORE often than not, most of those shots will have someone's eyes closed, or coming out blurry and so on and the POINT of that is to then pick out the one or two that DID work out.
Also this whole argument that 'oh real photographers don't edit their photos', what ABSOLUTE garbage. Editing photos nowadays is expected, particularly if you're shooting in RAW, and your goal in editing is to create your vision YOU saw before you take your photo. Because guess what? Cameras don't see like your eyes do (you know what I mean).
I have some decent camera software but thought I had nothing to add Fuji film simulations during editing. I was wrong (I worked out how to do it with my Fuji X RAW Studio). I now feel so liberated, as I'm one step closer to the oldschool enjoyment of photography, with one less thing to select on my camera while shooting. Ace.
Ok, now this video really got me questioning myself. In the mid 1990's, I worked about 6 months doing aerial photography for a living. This was long before anybody knew what a drone was. This was piloting my own Cessna across country to whatever state we were marketing at the time. We were shooting promotional photos of business sites doing all angles in both 35mm and with a Pentax 6X7. I rotated 2 Nikons so reloading was no problem with the 35mm but the Pentax is not fun loading with film when you are on the ground. 20 shots per roll of 220 gives you two sites before you have to reload again. Doing all this and flying the airplane, while talking to air traffic control gets to be a serious headache real fast. Combine that with the inaccuracy of GPS units in those days and no cellphones to call up the business asking for local landmarks and I had the feeling the technology of the day was not up to standard. Was I a professional photographer or a questionable pilot hangout the window shooting photos while I was supposed to be flying the airplane?
Y'all are the gold standard for any photography or video reviews.
I got brought onto a company as my first "professional" gig to do photos and videos for them. Professional meaning paid or compensated. Then the person who brought me on said I wasn't a real photographer, because, up until that gig, I hadn't done any paid jobs. Nevermind that I was the one taking photos for a few local clubs. His business partner had some choice words about that, and that's how I ended up with a new camera, lens, and some other pretty Gucci gear. lol
I am slowly going blind. I am short sighted, and long sighted, plus my retina is clouding over, so Autofocus is a must for me now days. I can see well enough to drive, and shoot, but well enough to get sharp focus. Auto is a boon. I love it.
Thanks for this comment. I'm sorta there myself. The camera definitely sees better than I do myself. Best of luck to you!
Thanks for mentioning Vivian Maier. Her photos really grab me. The composition is well done but I love the shades of gray in them. It's too bad she went unappreciated while alive but luckily the right people rescued her photos so we can enjoy them.
Speaking of Sports photography. I started working for Lifetouch School Studios in Baltimore MD in 1999 and 2000. My camera was my Dad's all manual Minolta SRT-201. No motor drive or anything else. Unlike the guy who trained me had a Nikon 35mm SLR with a motor drive and could plow through a 24 roll of film in 1 min or less. While I'm there going "click", wined to the next frame, line up my shot "click" over and over again. Lol I don't know how I managed to get usable good shots. But I did. When I got my Canon T3i in January 2012. I kept treating it pretty much the same way except I didn't need to advance the film and my 8GB SD card held alot of photos. Once I learned more features. That Canon Rebel felt like a pro camera body to me compared to that Minolta.
I have been denied entrance to some places because I was carrying a "professional" camera and cameras weren't allowed. When I pointed out that every person there carrying a cell phone was also carrying a camera, it was "explained" that they weren't carrying a "professional" camera. Some venues define a professional camera as any camera with interchangeable lenses.
"I don't know what makes a real photographer, but I know what makes a real website." Niiiiiiiice lol. Chelsea's transitions rubbing off on you ;)
Real photographers like chocolate chip cookies ... I think I'll have one now.
When I was on Instagram, I've gotten a handful of messages from people telling me I'm not a real photographer. "Your photos would look better on film, digital is fake", "Your photos have no meaning", "Your b&w photos make me throw up" and those were just the nice ones. They're probably right though, I never saw myself as a real photographer or an artist. I'm just a lousy guy with a camera really so I took my website down and deleted my social media accounts and not I don't bother to share my work with the world anymore and now I don't have to see those comments/messages haha.
(Sorry for long message. You can just use the first para)
People have told me ...
1- When I didn't have a DSLR and just took photos with a phone or a point and click, they'd say, "You dont need a DSLR" and ALL of those people had a DSLR
2- When I got my first 50mm F1.8, and after a while I wanted to get 80mm, a friend said, "you dont need 80mm, 50 is enough"
3- A friend kept asking me to get a Mirrorless, that part was fine, but then they said, THIS IS THE NEW THING, its EVERYTHING, because of the options and viewfinder and the chance to adapt more lenses, I lost it, even though I agreed with them. I was like, "Bro, sure, but I want to use both, for what both can do"
4- When I wanted to buy my first Super8, a friend said, "It's not efficient and its dated and the world is going forward, why would you want to go backwards".
It's just that a Photographer/Cinematographer/Filmmaker can use whatever they want for their subject, to get a desired result, whether through auto, manual, digital, analogue, VR whatever, or draw on paper or digitally, its their choice. Others cant tell us what to use and what not to, and how. You can get an idea in your mind for a stop motion movie, either shot on digital or film or VHS or just drawings and sculptures.
When we say it doesn't matter, it also means, that it matters when you want to choose something. You can choose a heavy setup or a light setup or just a point and click camera. A good photographer will take good photos with any camera and settings, tools and all are there to help get a certain kind of result.
Its like when a new Instagram or Snapchat filter comes, you can use it randomly or you can get creative with it and make it matter for the story.
I was watching this music video director/cinematographer/editor etc teach effects we could use in a music video to make it interesting, but even though its their choice what to use, they did not use anything creatively, that would compliment their song's story. You can do either, but a creative person would probably use all the effects for a reason sometimes. An effect of splitting faces or double exposures or overlapping/superimposing two pictures/videos in a song would really compliment the story if its about someone with multiple personality disorder or two characters they play.
So I think, a good photographer would experiment, use anything they like creatively and of course if the compose it good or crop it good later, its a good photographer to me. You don't have to know all the settings, but if you do know them, they add to your options of how close your result can be to your story you want to tell.
So all this bullshit about "Do everything on the shoot" or "Do most on post" are not correct, unless you know what you're doing and whatever you want to use without having to make it a rule for others
If you go into the same line I see only one logical conclusion. There were no photographers 200 years back. People draw pictures/ portraits.. Photograph is lazy people's job
I started watching awhile back and subscribed to your channel, good work. I guess by your test I am a photographer but not a professional photographer. I've been a professional image editor for well over 25 years and in graphics 48 years and yes, I got rid of Photoshop at CS5 and in fact everything Adobe, that's a story of an anal-retentive technician for another time. I semi-retired in 2020 and had some health issues most of 2021 so in that short time I amassed a personal library of over 30,000 kept images. I have nearly 6 terabytes of client files archived.
As a beginner photographer I bought a Nikon D3400 for dirt money, a decent sensor, lacking the stuff to make using it to make a living easy. I tacked on a set of Nikkor lenses a f2.8 24-70mm, a f5.6 200-500mm and a f1.8 50mm prime lens, yes, I have the kit, 18-55 and 70-300 VR lenses, so I have fun.
Now to the point, I am not a professional photographer because I haven't invested the effort, time or money to be able to provide proper service to clients. As such I will not sell myself as such nor will I ever do so, taking bread off of a persons table telling BS about myself is not going to happen. Photography is hard work, doing photography and providing client service is much harder honest work, not at 68, never going to happen.
Keep up the good work you have honest reviews and opinions. For You Tubers! 🙂🙂 I couldn't resist.