How Adjusting Bulk Fermentation Time Affects Sourdough Baking
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 มิ.ย. 2024
- In this video I compare two sourdough bulk fermentations, one loaf is fermented to increase by 50% of its original volume and the other by 100%. This is the first time I was able to test the new fermentation chamber which worked really well. Being able to hold a constant temperature is a huge help, especially useful when summer hits! I'll release a full breakdown of the fermentation chamber in the next couple of weeks.
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Chapters
0:00 What's going on
0:40 Mixing the dough
1:30 Kneading the dough
2:30 Divide for bulk ferment
3:10 Shape 50% dough
4:05 Shape 100% dough
4:55 Bake
5:45 Comparing the loaves
#bulk fermentation - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
Excellent video! Thank you so much for your detailed experiments and explanations!
Cheers :)
Super video, it's really a brilliant idea to observe the fermetation with a small piece of dough! Bravo! Thanks for sharing.
Cheers :)
Great experiment! Thanks
Enjoying all these experiments! Excited to see how you approach the final basket proof; started doing that a month ago and have gotten perfect crumb ever since.
There are so many possible variations, I'm not sure where to start ;)
Excellent video! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Cheers Patricia :)
Very interesting!
Great stuff! I've got some of the parts to make a proofing cabinet, but I haven't had time yet.
I'll do a proper breakdown of that very soon. The temperature jumps here in the summer so I'm looking forward to being able to control things!
Very interesting and informative. Placing a chunk of the dough in the glass then waiting for it to rise is quite cool so I must give it a try.
Learned lots here. I have a question about the test jar lid, did it have air holes and was it screwed on tight?
Hi Phil, if you're in the experimental mood, any chance of doing a cold start vs preheated? Cold seems to be quite popular in the community and I've tried both with varying results, would like a definitive answer. Cheers bud
I bake with 100% EInkorn so somewhat different properties and I've been experimenting with this as well. I like to bulk ferment until it is just beginning to jiggle and be soft. WIth Einkorn it can bolt fast beyond that point. Then overnight in fridge in the banetton. Results have been great. I used to do a more full proof but think the second rise is better with a little left in the gas tank. Just a little!
Phil - can I ask what baking stone you like to use? I'm trying to find one that would be a good purchase. Thanks for all you do!
Love the experiment and the how the results speak.
I do find shaping a dough that was fermented to 100-120% size increase more difficult - but as you concluded: the taste and shape is still pretty good either way.
More flexibility and leeway on timings is just better, as it makes it more forgiving and more approachable.
Many thanks for the content you're creating!
Instead of pushing the bulk fermentation so far, you could give it more time in the basket to proof :)
@@CulinaryExploration Yeah, the best solution for sure. I've been doing that when working from home. But the days I go in to the office, I prep things in the morning and return home to a fermented batch of dough. Lately I've been adjusting the inoculation to get that worked out better, but I haven't found the proper sweet spot yet (still want to go to bed in time, I have varying lengths of my working day, etc... Makes for difficult planning :D )
@@Lizard008 Try 30% starter to flour. Fermentation times are halved.
@@Lizard008 I use about 3% which takes about 9 hours in a warm spot (roughly 24-26C). 90/10 bread flour/whole wheat.
I do use a dry/stiff starter rather than the traditional 100%. I prefer less sourness and it also gives me a less wild crumb
nice sharing~ have a nice day😋😋😋💕😋🌺👌
Hi, your loafs look so amazing! Please could you share what kind and brand of flour exactly you are using so I can find the one that corresponds to it in Europe and specifically in Bulgaria? What is the percentage of protein? Thanks a lot it will be sooo important for me to finaly find the right type of flour.
Very cool video. As I bake I find that I have a similar issue of crumb filled with large holes despite a nice exterior. From my experimentation and as shown in this video, longer bulk fermentation times are the solution to this issue. I wonder if there would be a way to add back the fermentation sample, possibly before final shaping, so no dough would go to waste. Nonetheless, thanks for informative video.
Really fascinating experiment and good to know that you are as OCD as I am! I was surprised with the wooky hole loaf and generally the outcome, its an interesting way to rethink fermentation with temperature fluctuations. Thank you Philip as always for a great video.
Cheers mate :)
I'm watching a great video in Korea❤️
A big wave to Korea :)
thanki you for this. That's what I was looking for. Looking forward for the sequence. Onde question, any reason why you only did two sets of stretch and fold?
Cheers Danny. the two stretch and folds and the gentle shape + bulk fermentation is enough to build enough strength in this dough :)
Thank you for the video. I want to ask why you put it in the fridge overnight after doing the bulk fermentation?
helpful test, roughly how much time the bulk fermentation under warm weather around 100 fahrenheit , and you didn't mention final proofing period? and what is the main factor to have an optimal nice oven spring?
I really enjoy your videos. I’ve always had problems with my dough continuing to ferment in the fridge overnight. So for me, I do a 20-25% increase. I’ve tried a colder fridge but that made little difference. I think it’s about knowing your starter and how your environment affects your dough. Also maybe I use more starter-often 20-25% based on the dry flour used.
You're spot on, there are many factors that affect the outcome. Appreciate the feedback, thank you :)
Can you tell us which flour you used to make your starter please? I can’t seem to get a white starter going? Thank you 👍🏻
Would have liked a comparison at about 20C - cannot afford to heat the kitchen above that!
Very interesting! I don't get such large holes at 50% bulk fermentation. What is your dough hydration and also the protein content of your breadflour?
I've used the jar for testing bulk before but now I find putting the whole dough in a square sided plastic container for the bulk fermenting makes the measuring easier.
I don't enjoy using a test piece of dough, it adds another step but it's good for these experiments. With a little practice I can judge the increase in volume well without using a test piece. My four has 13,2% protein and the hydration is 70%
Very nice, Phil and exactly as I predicted. 😊
Cheers bud, I hope all has been well with you
Awesome Video, watching Content from your Channel really has helped me clear up on a lot of questions regarding sourdough baking :) have you made experience with proofing at cold temperatures? I don't have the opportunity to keep the ambient temp at an optimum, so since it is pretty cold here (ca. 8°Celsius at the Moment) Ive got the feeling that that affects the crumb as well. Ovenspring and and taste are all good, just really tight crumb with small holes in the end, nothing like yours
Hi Günther. I'll definitely be experimenting with low temperatures. We had extremely low temps during February and everything slowed down dramatically.
Hi Gunther, just wondering how long it took your bulk fermentation to get good oven spring at that low temperature? Thanks
@@christine6878 almost the hole day, I usually mix my dough up with warm water to kickstart the fermentation and it still takes up to 12hours
@@gunthercanneloni6885 that’s actually not as long as I thought it would be. When it’s about 16 Celsius here it can take about 8 hours for bulk fermentation but I haven’t tried using warm water to start. Thanks for your reply.
I’m curious what your dough temperature was during this experiment? From my research I’ve found that the target rise percentage is different based upon the dough temperature. a 65 degree dough bulked to 100% would have much different results than a 80 degree dough at 100%.. I’m just curious as I’m trying to figure out the target rise percentages based on dough temp!
Hard to determine proofing time when temperatures in the house are colder
I used my starter without feeding and the bread came out lovely. My starter is always kept in the fridge and goes for weeks without feeding. However, when I do want to use I leave it on the counter for at least 12 hours to warm up.
It doesn't need that much looking after once it's up and running :)
I do a pretty stiff low maintenance starter too (Einkorn). I leave out for a few hours but I may try overnight!
@@CulinaryExploration people make it so much harder than it needs to be. Most of my recipes call for a levain that sits and to me that is activating enough
May I know what do u do with the controlled dough (100g)? Do u include it in the dough during baking or just dispose it? 😊
You can tuck it into the centre of your main dough while doing the final shape, or you could pop it in the fridge and use it as a still starter for the next day's baking session :)
Hi Philip, the bulk fermentation part is when I’m the most nervous….. ie: is it ready, over proved or under proved!? This is such an interesting video, many thanks, loving your careful investigations and comparisons. Can you tell me what happens if you do more stretch and folds than just a couple, is it a good idea to do say 4 or 5? Btw I’ve always thought you’re brave wearing black with all that flour nearby, that’s a neat apron! Cheers
Hi Christine, why don't you do your own experiment as I did in the video? You can do it at room temperature. Practice reading the dough while you do it, I think you'd learn a lot.
@@CulinaryExploration good idea, I’ll give it a go later this week 👍
I've done everything from no folds to a half dozen. There's a difference, but after 2-3, it's very much diminishing returns. At some point you pass the window pane test or are stretchy enough, so why bother? The sample jar like done in this video is a great way to test! Generally, as long as you see at least a 25% increase you are good. In a warm room (22-24c) that'll be maybe 2 hours. And you can always let it proof more in the basket! Being underproved is hard. If the dough has been out for a few hours, then it's good to go. Maybe not perfect, but it's a start. Over? Can't shape it? Throw it in a loaf pan.
Sadly it takes a few not so great loaves to find your rhythm. Probably took me about a year baking every two ish weeks
@@mattymattffs That’s interesting re the stretch and folding. I think I overproved the dough once as it was so sloppy after being left for some hours. Actually my best result was caused by neglecting the dough……my starter had gone over its peak and during the day I couldn’t remember how many and when I had done the stretch and folds, goes to show that you can get too hung up on the details! At the beginning I was sure my water was wetter than Philip’s (ha ha) as I found it difficult to control the dough, just think I’m getting more familiar with how the dough should look and feel as I bake more.
Made my first SD the crumb is even. Let It cool overnight before cutting, but it is gummy the knife is very sticky after cutting it.
If the dough was fermented and backed properly I'd suggest decreasing the hydration a touch.
Sounds like it wasn't cooked all the way. Did you check temp before removing from oven? Should be between 205°-210° F
I still don't understand how you get such a crazy rise! I've baked sourdough for years and used many recipes (I stick with your fast one nowadays) and the most I'm able to get is the main cut to open up like 45 degrees.
If you've got a nice strong dough try playing around with the fermentation times as I did in the video :)
There's a few things that really matter.
Tight shaping. The less tension the less pop you get. Moisture! If the crust sets too soon it will hinder your rise. Score, if it isn't deep enough, wrong angle, etc, it won't give that same kind of ear. Don't be afraid to rerun the cut a few times.
May I ask what heating unit you use in your proofing box?
It's a little caravan heating unit. I'll run through all of the equipment in the breakdown vid :)
@@CulinaryExploration Nice! Can't wait. Been building a few proof boxes myself using heating mats. But looking for something a bit faster and able to heat a larger container!
How long did you put it in the fridge overnight?
many sourdough bread resipe needs 12-18 hours of cold fermentation, but you can keep it inside for 72 hours
What do you mean “fermented to 50% of its original volume” and the second “to 100% of its volume?” Do you mean doubled in volume for the latter, and increased in volume by 50% for the former?
Yep :)
Thank you!
I have a question for you bakers out there. My last few loaves have been gummy and underbaked even though I have followed all the proper steps. I did cut a little liquid from one of the loaves to see if would make a difference but it did not. I have recently moved from an area that was sea level to a 1100 feet elevation. It’s not considered high elevation but I am wondering if the moderate elevation might be affecting the texture of my bread. Any suggestions?
Experience and experimentation will guide you to best results but if you want to take some shortcuts, use a good quality pH meter for semisolid foods; they are not cheap so be prepared to shell out several hundred dollars. The instrument will tell you your dough has fermented to its optimum point when it reads between 4.2 and 3.9. Below 3.7, you will plateau in terms of LAB (lactic acid bacteria) populations and your dough will increase in acidity but not gain in volume. th-cam.com/video/itZMYgh5ZC0/w-d-xo.html
Look at baking temps and time. How you create steam is in there too. I was getting some gummy loaves - I now preheat to 500, turn to 475 as soon as I put in the oven, lower to 450 after I remove steam. I wouldn't cut the liquid, you are affecting hydration of the dough and that isn't the issue. Let internal temp get to 208-209 F before you remove
Hello there Phil, Greetings from Christchurch, New Zealand .... Thanks for a Wonderful set of vidclips, learnt So Much .... Downloaded the 'Calculator' ..... QUESTION :- ..... I see that you have ' Levain' in the Calculator .... What happens when I try to calculate going Straight from 'Starter' without building a 'Levain' ..... ????? How do I use the Calculator in that specific method .... ?????? Using John Kirkwood's 'Simplified' method, ( th-cam.com/video/bvd_wma6u3Q/w-d-xo.html ) have had some Great results ..... Just found This to be a little too wet for 'My Flour Mix' and need to 'Adjust it' ..... :-) :-) :-) Best to You and Yours .... Thanks Agin for your Very Inspiring Vidclips
Hi Keith. Drop me an email and I’ll shoot you an example back
For the record there is not a stage called “bulk fermentation”. The stage is simply fermentation. It’s only bulk if you’re making more than one loaf from one dough.
I thought it was referred to as bulk because that’s when you’re doing the “bulk” of the fermentation process
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Great video. I normally go 50%. Tomorrow I'll try 75% and 100%.
Nice experiment, It is good to be able to control a steady temperature. Interesting enough, the other day I was rushing to bake an olive nut loaf for my friend, I did not ferment to 100%, I was wondering why the bread has hollow channels😅. Lately I put the dough in an 8 cup measuring cup to ferment so I can see the increase %, but hard to remove, and I also do the poke test.
Hey Becky, I've tried three different types of containers this week. For large quantities, I like a rectangular container, but for a small mix, I don't think you can beat a bowl.
@@CulinaryExploration Just tested using two different bread machines with artisan dough setting (slow proof 5.15 cycles) to ferment sourdough. Machine#1 convection, dough temp reached 31C - dough was warm and sticky, hard to shape, big ears, tight crumbs, more sour. Machine #2 dough temp 25C - easier to shape, big crumbs.
@@BTs-he1lg I'm looking forward to comparing the difference between lower and higher temperature bulk proofs. Sounds like an interesting experiment.