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Phil Fish Versus the Internet (incl. Fez review!)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ส.ค. 2024
- EDITED: Updated for accuracy, removed factual error. Please use this link for sharing rather than the old one, which is now set to "unlisted"
Bunnyhop's recap, review and reaction to Phil Fish's world of controversy.
And most of this video is like an op ed but it also has a review stamped on the end that's technically a part of the op-ed as well so I don't really know what kind of video to call it.
This video uses music from audiomicro.com
This video also lives at superbunnyhop.com
![เกิดใหม่ทั้งทีก็เป็นสไลม์ไปซะแล้ว ซีซั่น 3 - ตอนที่ 66 [ซับไทย]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qcaUguFlwdM/mqdefault.jpg)
Can you imagine if Pablo Picasso had Twitter? Oh god.
+Limey Lassen why? was he crazy?
But Picasso also used his art to make fun of the people and groups that he didn't like. I don't think he would have acted like a kid on twitter. He also had much more of a justified reason to make fun of his home country of Spain, which had allowed Nazi Germany to bomb his own people and do other unspeakable horrors. He wasn't just mad at "angry people on the internet".
Now imagine if H.P Lovecraft had twitter.... just imagine.
If only his popularity had come before his death
I love H.P. Lovecraft's work, It probably would'nt have mattered at the time if his views were publicly known that was the general additude about blacks and jews, etc at that time and especially at that place, even people who did'nt agree by and large consented with the pressure to conform. I for one agree with the general message about this video though I would be very hesitant about buying a Phil Fish game because he's definatly not a personality I want to support. that said it would'nt stop me if I was really into a game he made.
the Phil Fish drama feels so quaint compared to 2019
Yeah, compared to the recent few years in general, the 2012 / 2013 shit seems almost gentlemanly. And at the time I thought that was some serious case of failure to communicate... Had we only known.
@@misterr3083 wait tell you see may
@liddle wait till you see june
Ah you beat me to it. I'll have to wait till August to see what level of apocalypse were in...if we survive that long
@@patrickfuckingdavis same he beat me to it too
Honestly looking back at this I miss the days where apparently the worst thing a developer could be was rude on twitter. Years later the gaming industry has pretty much shat itself between the embarrassing monetization schemes, publicly known crunch, and all the stories coming out about alleged sexual misconduct.
Crunch has existed way before Twitter. Heck E.T on Atari was made under crunch
@@robertbektas1810 That's true.
"Fish announced that FEZ would not be coming to PC, and that PCs were for spreadsheets. In the Spring of 2013, FEZ came to PC and it was NOT a spreadsheet." LOL
Hideki Kamiya is a magical man he just can't stand stupid people. Sent him a tweet ages ago about how my little sister loves Okami And that it's her favorite game and he tweeted back a smiley face.
He blocked me after I said Scalebound's Drew and W101's Wonder Blue are cool homages.
+Alice Sheep He blocked for relying to his tweet
okami is my second favorite game of all time ;v
TotalBiscuit can just fuck off.
@Elyseon If your comment was a few years old I'd understand. Now you kind of come of as a Jackass given TB's health.
What an interesting time machine this video is. Incredibly well-made and puts into perspective how far we've come in such a short amount of time.
H.P Lovecraft was a insanely racist person, but he also made some of the best horror stories ever made.
George Lucas is an idiot, but the original trilogy of Star Wars are classics and still capture the hearts and minds of kids today.
Todd Howard tells filthy lies to make his games look more advanced than they are, but the Elder Scrolls and Fallout are amazing games with some of the best examples of emergent storytelling.
Yahtzee Croshaw is hilarious and a fantastic game critic, but I would never want to meet the guy in person.
And it's much easier and quicker to name musicians who *aren't* assholes than to name those who are.
You can hate an artist as a person and still enjoy their work, people.
I've heard that Yahtzee is actually super awkward and nervous in social interactions.
Lovecraft's racism actually made it a bit harder for me to buy into some of his stories. I mean, this was a British guy who was squicked out when he learned one of his relatives was Welsh, for ducks sake. I'm not sure I can trust the judgement of a man that an alien is so horrible and monstrous that it can drive people insane when he'd probably have the exact same reaction to a black man in a two-piece suit.
this needs to be a quote.
Pratz I'm already a fan of Let's Drown Out. They're great podcasts to listen to, but they really show how much contempt he has for other people sometimes.
wagner was an asshole and am adulterer, and beethoven was short-tempered which I guess isn't too bad but he would've been a nightmare on twitter.
Phil's story is kinda sad, since he could've avoided this and became successful if he just kept his mouth shut.
Same can be said for a lot of people. It's just the sad truth behind human personalities. The work of an individual is oftentimes contrary to their real life persona, each with varying degrees of impact on the professional life of the individual. It's just a shame that Phil's personality actively got in the professionally.
You get in a lot of trouble now a days if you don't interact with the audience at all.
Tell that to the guy who's making Frog Fractions 2.
Michael Carlton
to every rule there are exceptions, toby fox also doesnt interact with his audience
+U1TR4F0RCE Can you really blame him, though?
Hold up hold up hold up
Phil Fish produces a top-quality indie game that was critically-praised almost unanimously, but people didn't buy it because of his "reputation?"
....and meanwhile EA and Ubisoft still make countless millions off of their unquestionably buggy and ludicrously overpriced games?
(Note: I say "ludicrously overpriced" because i've seen some fundamental DLC for single AAA games total up to around $200 more than a couple times now.)
Yeah, because I'm sure THEY value their customers as people...
This Comment? 10/10
The difference is that EA and Ubisoft are made up of plenty of good people who probably work hard and deserve the support, while Phis Fish is a single person who is lashing out at the very people who support him.
We can not treat entire corporations like a single human being. They are made up of multiple people, and I presume alot of those people are decent.
They chose to work for those corporations, actively knowing the shady, borderline illegal shit that they do. I don't think they deserve any special treatment.
Wearyaxe So you can't hate a company because it's only partially made up of bad people, but you can hate a person even though they are only partially made up of bad qualities? Or do you actually believe Phil Fish is the devil and has not a single redeeming quality?
Definitive Dubs dude the people working there most likely aren't working there for a deep passion but because getting a job in the game industry is absolutely harrowing. Life isn't black and white.
"His personality does not affect the quality of the game"
Thank you. People need to be taught this. Fez is an amazing game.
+Lion heart True. Doesn't mean I have to buy it and put money in the pocket of an ass-clown though. Everyone will vote with their wallet based on pretty much anything they want. It's always been the case.
Cao Cao also, how about this:
www.viralwalrus.com/entertainment/16-celebs-served-time-in-jail
agreed, H.P Lovecraft is one of my favorite authors and he was incredibly racist even for the time that he lived in and some of my favorite bands like for example ukrainian Nokturnal Mortum are ex-nazi but still probabvly very far right
Ben - Definitive Dubs
Besides, if you want to take that moral high-ground, maybe you should look at your other purchases as well. Yeah, this guy who made a game said some inflammatory stuff on twitter, but the companies that make your shoes and clothes employ children in factories that don't meet basic safety standards. But that doesn't matter because they're not talking about it on twitter.
Lion heart Still enjoy FEZ. Don't care who is behind it. i even buyed the game knowing who this guy is
Developers, TH-cam Partners, and Celebrities are not GODs. Period end of story.
But they are more easily seen.
However, stealing everyone's money with the Kickstarter and refusing to refund the money is fucked up shit.
But Proto!!
phil fish is good, actually.
I'm glad this was fair to Phil Fish, instead of just being another "HE IS UGLY AND DUMB AND EATS BABIES" kind of rant that I see pretty much everywhere else.
In Japan, Fish and Beer are a perfect match!! If he was Japanese, we would be playing Fez 3 Alpha Omega Remaster by now
To be fair: Bjork was being followed by this reporter, who was pushing her for shameless sensationalism. He had it coming
victim blaming?
I understand your arguement, Bunnyhop, but I think for a lot of people, its more of a principle thing. I personally don't want to give money to someone who insults me because I'm a PC gamer, or because I want to buy a game thats on sale because I don't have a lot of money to spend, and doing so would cause me trouble on an emotional and principled level. It's like, if someone made delicious food, and when you went to buy it, they called you a fat piece of shit. Yeah, the food might still be good, but fuck that guy, I'd rather eat shitty food from the nicest chef ever, because I'd rather support someone who is nice, and enjoys doing what he does, even if he's not good at it, than someone who is the best, but is a shitty person.
"Phil himself used to work at Ubisoft."
Well that explains some things...
I got FEZ on a humble bundle, and I gave it all to charity. Hahahahah take that Phil Fish!
Fuck off, Phil Fish did say some things that were rude. But overall his struggles really mattered and to see that much of a response so negative, is just amazingly sad. Phil was 18 when he released FEZ and 16 when he said some of the comments. I really think you are just hating on him cause others are doing so.
bit.ly/1cMpRBx
Impressive beard for a 16 year old too!
Actually I used Indie Game: The Movie and he said 1998 he got a NES at the age of 4. I think he was incorrect, but still I think this man is amazing even though he has done some childish acts.
superdudeman666
Go easy on him, Derpy Dan was 4 when he made that comment.
Super Bunnyhop ;c sorry I'm just saying Phil Fish made a good game. And I don't pay attention to twitter. I think Phil Fish is a good Indie developer but has a big mouth.
The only thing I have against Fish is that he stole ideas from others, got government funding for his project he never should have received, and that he used connections with the IGDA to have their game of the year award (which is a cash reward) not only be rigged so he could win with Fez, but even had the rules re-written so he could win it two years in a row for the same game.
Actually, now that I think about it, he got what he had coming.
You'd think if the game was so good he wouldn't need to be subsidized with stolen money to be successful.
@@resmarted >"All government money is stolen"
How is america treating you
what? @@marshallzzz
What's funny is that Kamiya is much more toxic then Fish, yet Fish is the one who is seen as a demon and Kamiya is still loved by many people.
I don't understand you, people of the internet.
+Bakatyler I think it's because Kamiya makes good games. Fez is alright, but it's a single thing and hardly a career to respect someone for.
I say this not having played the games Kamiya makes, only having heard that he makes good games.
+It's Because I have played Devil May Cry. Well then, I guess the statement about Fish is even stronger now. Even DMC2 is better than Fez.
+Bakatyler Most of Kamiya's tweets are funny because they are meant sarcastic and trolly, just read kamiya tweet tumblr and you see his not serious about most things.
+Bakatyler I would say for some people, its probably because his terse responses read more as a humorous comeback vs Fish's more personal insults. Its the difference between a guy who doesn't really give a shit as opposed to someone who clearly gives too much of a shit. For me, its more because Kamiya's tweets are just as often positive to fans as they are insults to trolls. I tweeted at him that I loved The Wonderful 101 and he replied with a :)
He also wrote and directed way better games than Fez.
Take-Aways:
As a developer your developer email account should be 1 way communication only. No interaction.
As a developer you should have a personal account that is total catfish. This way you can still live your digital life without scrutiny as people have a thing about putting other people onto ridiculous christ-like pillars.
As a developer that is indie, make the games YOU like and want. Remember, one way communication only. Don't even read the comments. Have someone else read them, weed out the trolls and pass on constructive feedback.
Maybe consumers should stop acting like assholes. It only takes a few to ruin a bunch. You have folks who have no idea about a development cycle output schedules most AAA developers could not do with hundreds of coders from an Indie dev. That is not even logical. It is maddening. Perhaps it is a two way street. Maybe customers need to behave like they have common sense and are not 5 years old and perhaps devs need to hire PR people that are paid to deal with the public and its douche bag members.
Nothing anyone SAYS warrants the kind of bullshit that happens, not just to phil fish, but to devs everywhere. Even the silent ones have bullshit thrown at them by entitled consumers. Everyone thinks they are owed something.
P.S. If you donated to a kickstarter.. that is not thievery. It is a donation. That means you willingly gave up the money. If you read the info regarding these types of donations, the donation does not guarantee a product release. It is a donation not a contract to deliver. Given development costs, what he did get for Fez2 was probably all but gone by the time he cancelled anyway. The money he is taking and running with is the money he got from Fez. So instead of making a fez 2 he is taking his earnings and running. That does not speak of the donations. People just automatically came to that conclusion without finding out more.
To say "I don't like this man because he told a troll to eat a dick" is ridiculous. You have said worse in traffic/walking/shopping/whatever. He cannot insult those who are guilty enough to grab the insult. He was obviously talking to a distinct set of individuals that were harassing him and using generalized language.
Well we all have a right to our opinions and how we handle things. I can agree to disagree.
So do we just ignore the fact that his insults to people were provoked? If there were no provocation... sure, he is a douche. But if provoked he is not a douche he is merely human. Look at what you just wrote. You hurled an insult to a man you don't know without provocation by calling him a 'cunt'. So yeah, don't hold people to standards you cannot hold yourself.
Lynx Savage
Theres a difference between making a negative assesment of someones character and directly insulting them. Im not interacting with fish and dont expect to be, and im not speaking with any vitriol or hate. Provocation doesnt make his reaction any better, pissy hateful internet shit is pissy hateful internet shit be it provoked or unprovoked. And to go take a quick glance at his twitter, its mostly a platform for that kinda stuff, some of it reads a bit like comments off of /v/. So id say its fairly reasonable to asess that the mans an asshole.
Is him being an asshole any different than any other cunt on /v/ or something being an asshole? No, but that was the point of this video, wasn't it? They're still a bad person, but its not remarkable in any way, and it doesnt have much bearing on what they made.
Lynx Savage Agree. It is PR management orientate subject than the game development itself. Phil fish is alrdy anxious enough to produce a game, let alone quite unpleasant & unnecessary Internet get into process. I would say 2 sides had issues and certainly we lost a talent in the industry regardless his personality.
When not covering actual games, game journalism likes to create "sensational" headlines the likes of all those stupid magazines you never buy in the grocery checkout line.
The headline "Phil Fish said x" is the equivalent of "x movie star is dating x". Worthless, pedantic, and ultimately nothing stories that people just loves to gossip over because they adore drama and celebrity idolizing/bashing.
moduscorp Phil Fish posted anonymously on /v/, but you could still see his tweet options in the picture
I mean honestly I don't think I could care less about the personal opinions of a dev about a genre of a game. I might be interested in reading a discussion or whatever but I don't care if they think a genre sucks. The only time I would like to know is if they're actually bigoted and if buying their product goes towards supporting that. I can't think of any other case where I'd really be interested in the personal opinions of deves.
I just bought Fez last night for $2.49 on Steam.
Also, fuck XBox. Between my 360 red-ringing because they decided to rush a defective product to market, and the anti-consumerist bullshit they tried to pull with XBox One, I gave up on that shit and everyone else should too.
Thanks for irrelevant-to-the-subject advice. Also fuck Call of Duty, I hate that franchise, defective product after defective product. Also fuck Django Unchained, overhyped because directed by Tarantino. Also fuck Dark Knight Rises, what an awful conclusion to the trilogy. Do you see the point now?
Dr Shaym That's your fault kid. I took care of my white 360 and its working like a champ. I moved on from consoles but i can count on my 360.
AydarBMSTU I don't think CoD was the best example to use since even the biggest fans have been upset lately.
Did you... just call Dr. Shaym a kid?
Came back and watched this one, it's aged very well. A word you might have used if you'd made this video nowadays is "parasocial relationships", which are really the crux of the issue when examining the relationship between consumers and supposed celebrity indie game developers.
Lesson learned: If you're going to be an indie developer, learn some freaking PR. It won't save you from the trolls, but you'll know how to deal with them.
CaitSeith True for just about everything. If you're a one-man project, YOU are the PR so people look to YOU to rate if your brand is any good. Big companies have PR men who can act as a buffer and spread positive news, but smaller groups need to take responsibility for their own perception.
It's been years since this happened, and I haven't seen this particular trivia about the situation in the comments( If it's there, I'm sorry), but to add a bit of context:
Beer emailed Fish about the Xbox One because FEZ had some issues, and patching the game was "too costly" on 360 (IIRC it was something like 10000 bucks), so the game was left unpatched. This piled with PS4 being the "Indie" console back then, that made patches and stuff for indies costs to be cheaper than for big publishers. So, when box started its own similar initiative, Beer probably speculated that FEZ now could be finally patched, so he reached out to get word on that. Which justifies none of the vitriol, but it helps to understand how the ball started rolling.
rewatching this as fez is re-released on the nintendo switch.
Which is kinda hilarious after he insulted Japanese games years ago lol
The plot thickens:
Andy Kaufman faked his own death to become an Indie game developer... And then trolled everyone online.
Or, perhaps Phil Fish is the reincarnation of Andy Kaufman.
Great little documentary, bravo
I remember when I saw Fez and though, this looked cool. I bought it during a summer steam sale and found this video a few months later. I could think was, "I'm glad I missed out on this."
+Super Starm Pretty much the same thing I thought in regards to gamergate. I was out of internet access cuz I was up in my home province in the mountains. By the time I got back, it was starting to die down.
My God the internet make people stupid.
+Wildeye No, the internet only allows stupid people to voice their opinion.
Jake Azz
Don't try to start anything
+Super Starm Things like this remind me of and humble me with the knowledge that the Internet is vast, yet young. Because I hadn't even heard of this "controversy" until 3 years later. The Steam paid mods fiasco? A few months later. Gamergate? I don't even know when that happened.
Everywhere is like that. Tweeter, facebook and alike don't really provide any useful service. They just show that celebrities life sucks more than ours, but they're rich.
For many people, this is a service in itself, and perhaps is a way to remove some of the celebrity idol worship illusion.
It's funny how the Phil Fish incident and the incidents around that time and are still continuing now remind me of MGS2.
The main reason people don't buy Fez for Phil isn't because it makes the game bad, it's because the money goes to supporting hypocritical statements and an overblown ego that refused to take responsibility for his words and actions.
Kamiya, for example, is toxic, but only when people don't show him basic respect to start with. He knows he doesn't have to put up with this on Twitter, and thus indiscriminately blocks people he isn't in the mood to deal with. Otherwise he may seem a bit standoffish, but doesn't really go out of his way to insult people out of nowhere, and admits when he may have jumped the gun. Phil just kind of rattled on at a wall with people in earshot, acted shocked when people actually heard him, and continued lashing out instead of explaining himself and analyzing his own behavior.
And even if it was done for PR, there are FAR better ways to build hype for a PC release than cynically depreciating the PC market.
A lot of people could've handled this far better, yes. But Phil was the keystone in this entire shitstorm.
FEZ is definitely worth $5, even if it only were for the first few hours where you can actually feel your brain rewire itself to cope with the 2.5D madness. That was an awesome experience and unlike a good story or beautiful graphics, this is the one thing only video games can do. So if you like video games, what the hell are you waiting for!
After having watched the video, I feel like you didn't get your point across. Why is a bad idea not to buy a good game? You obviously lose out on a good experience, but if someone feels that Fish shouldn't be rewarded for his work, and they would rather miss out on a good game than reward Fish for making the game, then why should they buy it?
If you want people to re-think the subject, I'd suggest that you discuss the real impact that supporting Fish will have on the game industry. I guess there were parts of that discussion in the video, but given the amount of focus on the game quality and the history behind the development, it got drowned out.
I still enjoyed the video though. It got me thinking.
I think Kamiya is awesome.
PyroNexus22 Is that a Skepta logo?
Top Kek Skepta, Jme, Shorty, Jammer, Wiley, etc.
It's their label or something.
Nice dude, barely see anyone who's into them on other videos lol
Top Kek you'd be surprised, I'm not even british, I'm russian.
Woah sweet, how'd you find out about them?
From a comment a way down below:
"Bad people don't deserve good things."
Never have my ass been more tightly planted on the fence.
+Paul Staker Indeed. You own that fence!
+Paul Staker prayin4u it's not a picket fence
There's another side to that argument, and it's that bad people can sometimes do good things. And those good things are worth recognizing.
Love the line "Fez came to PC and it was not a spreadsheet"
I find Fish more fascinating than Fez. Like watching a train wreck sometimes. The fact is, if people don't want to buy the game based on his personality, that is 100% their right. It's their money. However, it's also 100% his right to never produce any more games. Both are missing out in my opinion. Where I draw the line is doxxing him. Putting all his passwords, hard drive contents, bank information, etc. online is just fucked up. That's criminal activity. Over what? What some egotistical, opinionated idiot with a quick temper said on the internet? Please. Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one (and most of them stink). It's not worth going to prison for.
I probably should've thrown in the word "vocally" before "didn't want to reply" to clarify, but I'm aware of the convoluted details of their drama. Its hard to condense them all and still not run over 20 minutes.
Hearing about how we'll probably never get a fix to the problems in the game is kinda hilarious now that one of the other devs made a huge update for the PC version a year or so ago.
I got Fez in a Humble Bundle a few years back, 43 minutes in and I couldn't stand it anymore. It was shit.
And thats okay, because you have just judged the game and not the developer, and everybody has a different opinion.
Same here, it's pretty meh.
George has not been killing himself for a good 5 years now.
6 years late but I guess this is still pretty relevant. The whole thing was never about teaching Phil a lesson, making the internet a friendlier place or Phil's statements having any impact on the real world it's just entertainment. He was a lulzcow. He said something stupid and funny so people kept poking him to make him say more stupid and funny stuff, that's really it.
Also I wonder how many people would agree with the "Being mean online doesn't make your game worse" statement in the case of Heartbeat.
Snake: "Hey guys whats goin on, OH GAWD! JESUS CHRIST!
Jesus: "Hey man you called? OH GOD! OH GOD!
God: Hey guys, oh god, why did I even invent piss? It's so gross!
Although I agree with you on some points there are others that I don't. I mean, when you are creating a product and go onto twitter or facebook you are not only representing yourself, but also your product.
Let's say I own a fast food restaurant and every day I go outside and hold a sign up saying "Buy my burgers, they are delicious!" But I also just happen to curse out everyone passing by on the street and start arguments with them. Those people will not want to buy my burgers.
It;s just like that with Phil Fish. When he is on twitter he represents his product as well as himself. And if he is cursing out everybody who looks at him funny in a public forum then those potential customers would not want to buy his game.
Agreed. Social media nowadays just makes the relation with your public image and your product much clearer to the public. Its one of the reasons why people support things nowadays. They want to make sure that the right people are getting wealthy. Would Steam be as successful if Gabe Newall was an asshole? Probably not.
I think you misunderstandood the happening bud. Marcus Beer was not mad about Phil Fish not answering his e-mails. As far as I know, it was another media vehicle that approached him for an opinion into the new X-Box game creator plataform, Game Informer I think, not Marcus himself. Marcus has more than once said that he in particular does not care for their opinion.
Plus Marcus did not say or meant to imply that public figures own the media commentaries and or quotes. What he said, and it is pretty down to earth and realistic, is that if you mistreat the media, don't expect the same to be nice about it when you are promoting your new work. Simple as that. A two way relationship.
Not a Marcus Beer fanboy. I don't follow what he does in years, for no particular reason. I did buy Fez and defend it as a very good game, aside from thinking Phil Fish is a douche, which is irrelevant to me when analyzing his work. Just stating the facts here.
Anyways, aside from the controversy analysis, which in my opinion should not be in here, but in a separate video, even though it is full of very good and full of relevant and right on point social commentary about the celebrity phenomenom, nice review.
Can I be blunt here?
Fish was never the brains behind Fez. Fez would have existed one way or another without him. The real reason there will not be a Fez 2 isn't because Fish is refusing to make it; it's because he wasn't ever capable of making it in the first place. Someone else did the design and engine work.
Kinda puts his always cancelling Fez 2 rhetoric in a new perspective, doesn't it? He's looking for excuses to not have to live up to the quality of the first game because he knows *HE* can't. He wasn't responsible for the success of the first game... he only profited from it.
Fez is one of my favorite games, and I find myself wanting to go back and experience it again, despite completing it to the fullest the internet could ever decipher (heart pieces and all). I sat down with pencil and paper and transcribed the meaning of the alphabet, and carefully translated signs and dialogue to understand the meanings. I solved puzzles earlier in the game than seemed possible by diligently referencing these notes and found myself enthralled by the games limited, but implied mythology.
In the end, I was deeply satisfied, and I wanted even more out of the game than what I had gotten, despite being incredibly pleased by the whole experience. When Fez 2 was announced, despite the internet basically wishing to burn the Phil Fish throne, I was so excited. To see it canceled was one of my bigger disappointments.
Phil's personality and a heavy media spotlight were like a spark on gasoline, but I can never forget how much I loved Fez.
I'm sorry but why should I support a grown ass man who can't control themselves? One less game to play? Because we're desperately in need of more games? If people had fun with fez thats fine but at the same time I have many other games to occupy me. And yes other people and devs have said stupid stuff as well but Phish never seems to learn where others do.
Phil wasn't even that bad honestly. And his game, was insanely good. The way he went at his game was new and fresh too. I think Beer was a legit dickhead
It really, really isn't.
Wow has it been 8 years? I still haven’t finished Fez
There's a reason why bigger studios have a PR department.
Phil's personality may not effect the quality of the game, but it does effect how well it'll sell. It has more to do with the business side of game development then the actual development side. He might consider himself a success, but the whole world would have considered him a success if his game would have sold better. And it would have sold better if he had just kept his damn mouth shut.
Being a part of the gaming industry not only requires talent, but if you want to continue your career it requires that you not be an asshole and shut the fuck up when people give you shit. Fighting back is a losing battle because you are basically fighting the entire internet and you'll alienate your potential customer base by doing so.
Its hard, it sucks, but thats how the industry works. You don't fight back against trolls as a developer because that's what they want. You ignore it, and prove them wrong by making awesome games. By doing that, you have good PR and a good game in your hands.
And are you really putting Phil Fish in the same boat as Hideki Kamiya, CliffyB (who I dont personally care for), TotalBiscuit, Quentin Tarantino, or Alfred-fucking-Hitchcock?
Was Phil Fish really that good? Was Fez really that good? I doubt it. All of the above get away with being inflammatory because they have proved themselves to be actually talented and respectable in their own right. Fuckin Hitchcock is literally a master of his craft in the film industry so yeah he gets a pass.
Fish made 1 good game. ONE. And it wasn't nearly good enough for him to get a pass on shitty behavior or to fans.
Fez is good, but its no master piece and the fact that people aren't willing to look past his personality proves that.
Phish is an example as to why you should have as little interaction with your fans as possible. Every tweet or facebook update you make is PR that can potentially end up pissing someone off.
Its mainly because people have different opinions. Say something some people will like and others will hate.
I had a really similar experience. I discovered the game through the music. I dont really keep up with game news. (or I didnt) then I thought, hey this sounds awesome and its part of a game thats real cheap, lemme try it. A friend of mine then noticed my interest and began preaching on and on about how the guy who made it is an asshole. I could give a shit. The music is awesome, the game is interesting enough to pay 4.99 for it. I enjoyed the game thoroughly and all the puzzles that I did figure out on my7 own.
All in all it's always a sad reminder that people take so much so personally when all anyone ever says is from a narrow and often tiny sliver of the relative perspective.
After seeing indie game the movie I felt sorry for Phil. He obviously can't control his mouth or think before he uses it. Then again, neither can most people on the internet these days.
Thanks for making a great video and confirming that I'm not a careless asshole who just buys whats cheap. :)
"not allowed to call them an asshole" i think you are allowed to call anyone anything you want under the concept of sharing your opinion, doesn't mean its right or wrong but you can do it lol
In the late 60's & early 70's, Charles Manson and the Manson Family made a couple albums, with help from various producers including Carl and Brian Wilson of The Beach Boys. These albums were released during the trials of the murders carried out by the family, per Manson's wishes, and were mostly folk songs written by him and preformed by his members. Today, these albums aren't hard to find online, and have seen praise from both a musical perspective as well as an investigative one. However, they have never seen commercial success, and many people either dont bring them up or dont know they exist.
I know this is a bit of an over-exaggeration, but I think it does a good job of illustrating the point that 'People are less likely to throw support at a product, no matter how good that product may be, when the people representing that product have shown questionable morals, humanity, and overall pretentiousness.'
Of course that doesn't explain why people like Kanye West, Woody Allen, & Orson Scott Card still see mainstream appeal despite their faults.
In the end, it really just comes down to what someone is willing to personally overlook and put up with, and where they draw their own lines with art as a whole.
I bought the game really late, all the controversy sailed over my head completely.
I love the game, i got invested in it and was extremely happy when i solved some of the puzzles : ) I did not manage all of them unfortunately, and some I'm kicking myself for having to look up online, but exploring the world was insanely satisfying.
In my mind its a masterpiece.
: )
"It doesn't take much to set people off on the internet."
I AM SO TRIGGERED RIGHT NOW!!!
Hmm. How much of an effect do you think hair length has on the strength of one's arguments?
Oh how times have changed. I'm curious if your opinion has held.
Modern Japanese games suck?
Guy needs to play more games.
Keep in mind, the same yeah Indie Game: The Movie was the same year Resident Evil 6 came out. I remember think Japanese games were getting pretty stale around that time too.
At the time he wasn't wrong. He could have said it in a more constructive way. He wanted attention.
Mr Panda He also came off as a little racist
Damn, he looks like he needs help. Sincere ones.
Cave Rave That boy needs a therapist.
Shocking twist: those days never existed. The only difference was that gag orders were more effective before the Internet.
I think the difference between Phil Fish and Quentin Tarantino is the fact that there was a separation then and isn't now. That and Tarantino was working with a film studio (that wanted their processes private) to make his movies while Fish was fully in contact with his "audience" from the very start. (Regardless of what the publishing studio he worked with would of wanted)
The fact that Tarantino's movies were put out there with no real connection to Tarantino the person, the culture of the time and onward saw the movie alone, most viewers didn't have a human face to associate with the good movies. So when all of the background insanity came out to the public, many already had an established ideal/opinion of what the movie(s) were and could more easily separate the media from the maker. While Fish was often the Fez news many people heard about as or even before they saw or knew of Fez. Their ideal/opinion of Fez was forming with the person (normally in the background) now in the foreground. So this decision on getting or not getting the media was being altered in real time compared to retroactively after their opinion is already made on the media. The separation here is harder to make with the media and it's maker.
Opinions and ideals are a major backbone and reason behind a lot of decisions people make. When you enjoy a product, you grow an opinion that's positive. It's like Nike. Nike has the whole sweatshop controversy over their head but this is after their branding and people's opinions are set. People who already enjoyed the products before are more likely to continue consuming that product. (For the record, i know that both it's not impossible to change opinions and that people did stop buying Nike after they heard about the sweatshops but those cases are not the majority or by god Nike would of gone bankrupt years ago) So with the estimated opinions, Nike is able to move past the issue and continue to hold a supportive fanbase. Fish on the other hand was pushing is opinions and flaunting his superiority while he was building his branding. That's what broke in his case. He was making bad impressions before his product to be enjoyed by the masses. And even with this major hate for Fish, many people do love his game.
I'll fully admit that i love Hideki Kamiya's games even with him not being the nicest guy but here's the thing. Not only did i know of the games before i knew of Hideki Kamiya, i know that Hideki Kamiya cares for his fans. He shows remorse and apologies to his fans when things go wrong. For example, a game by Kamiya, "ScaleBound" was canceled, Kamiya didn't blame this person or that person. Kamiya went to twitter and gave a heavy heartfelt apology, saying that he failed his fans. Fish canceled his game and blamed the "abuse" he got. ScaleBound meant a lot to Kamiya and he remorsed the game getting canceled. Fish went out of his way to cancel a game that should of meant a lot to him out of spite. If Fish is willing to drop something that should of meant so much to him that he was willing to devote himself to repeat a probably grueling slog of development, how devoted was he really? Fish said he'd kill himself if Fez never released, I'd call that some serious commitment. Yet for Fez 2, he dropped it because he was getting online abuse for his actions online. His core fans weren't attacking him, they were waiting for Fez 2. But Fish wanted to burn that, arguably, only bridge to spite his fans because other people were mad at him for making bad moves.
Yes, Fez is a good game but, it didn't get a chance to shine before the curtain was pulled from behind it. Other media like Tarantino's movies or Kamiya's games got to shine before their curtains were pulled.
Still a good video though, even all these years later.
What the...?
Phil Fish did improv before doing Fez?
Why did he change from symphathetic comedian to a douchebag hipster?
Weird...
Isn't that Andy Kaufman?
+Arsch Dee It's a routine by Andy Kaufman who Fish uses as his avatar picture.
I think the problem with him is he let his personal problems mix with his professional problems. between the legal battle he was in with his former business partner to the criticisms he got about his game. (although insulting someone just because they won't talk to you is rather childish) he basically had a meltdown and from that came his utter contempt with the industry as a whole. it's sad but that's why mixing your personal life with your professional one is always a bad idea.
That might also be because the MGS2 video was filmed using a much better camera, and that made my arguments stronger.
In hindsight it feels like foreshadowing bringing up how no one "supported malignant political agendas" or was "hurt or exploited" given it's a weekly issue now.
That was the best ending possible.
Good job.
Thank you for your objective logic. Such a rare thing to see on the internet, esp on issues that are so full of trolls.
Funnily enough there's only 2 reasons I search for a Game Developer's personality. When a game series is consistently amazing (ala. Nintendo: Miyamoto, Iwata etc), or when a series takes a drastic dive in quality all of a sudden (i.e. Halo and 343).
Its a shame he couldn't be here with us on this fateful day...
Man, I feel sorry for Fish. He's obviously just not a people person.
+Robin art•15• He clearly has some kind of social disability. I'm kind of on the fence for whether he needs to be held accountable for that. On one hand, people should be held to some kind of standard regardless, but on the other, he's clearly a broken person who's incapable of approaching these situations the same way as a normal person.
Robin art•15•
I mean, barely.
Robin art•15• He qualifies in terms of age, not in terms of behavior.
imo the stuff he's done really isn't bad enough to justify the hatred he got considering what other people get away with. Like yeah he said some stupid shit about games but that's basically completely meaningless and also harmless. Like he basically just called some gamers nerds, it's a dickish move sure but ultimately harmless, especially when we have people supporting bigotry and apparently fans defend that. If Totalbiscuit doesn't deserve criticism then Phil Fish certainly doesn't.
Why is Fez getting so much praise?
I felt like he took the idea from Echochrome with the perspectives changing the environment shtick. Sure he spun it in his own way, but to say that it's revolutionary is not fair. Both games where announced roughly the same year, with Echochrome finishing development at 2008 and Fez at 2012.
EchoChrome is now obscure as shit, Fez is still being talked about.
facts
That outro is among the best I've ever witnessed.
Caravaggio murdered a man in cold blood, but his painting of Saint Thomas remains one of the greatest paintings of the Renaissance. Sometimes it's important to separate the artist from their art.
Nick Currie made the prediction that "in the future, everyone will be famous to fifteen people." It's a sentiment I agree with. When everyone's personality is on display, reverberating through click-bait blog reposts and social media echo chambers, it becomes much easier to confuse the personal qualities of our private celebrities with the aesthetic qualities of their work. I like Fez a lot, and it's not because I like the story of how it was developed, or the man who designed it.
I love the entire video, but I must say that the Fez review in particular is absolutely genius.
The way you abruptly threw in disjointed and blatantly unrelated points about Fish's less than stellar personality in stark contrast with the criticisms that genuinely made sense and were actually relevant to the game really put into perspective the illogical nature of not playing the game simply because Fish isn't a very nice man and above all made this "reasoning" seem absolutely outlandish and ridiculous.
Kudos to you sir!
Fez was a beautiful and respectfully challenging game that is on my short list of games I wish I could play again for the first time. I paid full price for the first one and would do it again, regardless of the person who made it. Do you know how many goods and services we all buy from total assholes? Me either but probably a lot. My completionist nerdy math mind needs games like this. Each puzzle was thrilling and I still have the pages of notes I had to take to crack the codes. STILL WANT FEZ TWO! ❤ Stop being dramatic celebrity-driven bitches. Buy the damn game. Support the people that have the abilities to make such a wonderful thing.
people are defending phil fish.. wow... i think i lost some IQ numbers
Can you go below zero?
People aren't "defending" Phil Fish, they are calling out dumb troll haters. Jumping on the "Phil Fish is a douchebag!" bandwagon may make you feel better about yourself, but haven't you ever said something nasty? How would you feel if all the internet trolls were all copy pasting every stupid thing you ever said?
you know, i dont think that a game developer should do that, look at other developers, gabe newell, satoru iwata, keiji inafune, none of them act like trolls because ''life is hard'', wanna know why? because they have brain cells, just because a lot of people do the same shit doesnt mean its right, game developers usually have the common sense to think '' oh, i am important in the industry, maybe if i act like a spoiled brat people will think im an asshole''
*****
So because Phil Fish is a games developer you also expect him to be a perfect human being in every other respect. Why can't it be enough for a game maker to make good games? There's plenty of musicians that are total a-holes, should we never listen to their music again and only talk about what douchebags they are?
doesnt make him a better person
I know right, if there is someone you could honestly just hate, it's him.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask for Fish, other devs, and the people we know to behave better online and strive to be less toxic in the world. We live in a world where the worst of our society is rewarded on a daily basis while our brightest are routinely denounced. Asking for people to not be jerks even in the Internet is not an unreasonable and just thing to ask for. Fish is a jerk if his online persona is anything to go with. It’s his fault he gets called out on it.
That ending makes me actually wonder if Fish is a trolling genius with the facade of an annoying hipster.
If so I fucking love this guy.
If this is true, then I forgive Phil Fish for everything. If not, then Phil Fish is still an unlikable human being.
Maybe its silly of me to think that one person would go through all that work just to make a joke of it, but I do find the idea really interesting.
And considering you gotta try to consistently be such an ass on social media I really do think it was all a set up for a joke he himself could laugh at the expense of others despair. Added with how convoluted and elaborate FEZ's puzzles were that could probably only be thought up by somebody close to a genius, I don't see why he wouldn't just try and fuck with people for amusement if he really IS that smart.
Or maybe I have this in reverse. Maybe hes a complete asshole in real life and his depression is what he lied about. Which furthers the idea that he has NO REMORSE for his public actions.
Which might be more likely but to me is still pretty impressive and kinda hilarious to think he was able trick a bunch of people so easily.
P R E C U R S Ѻ R Either way, Phil Fish could be some sort of sociopath who feels nothing for others. Which is a freaky thought.
absolutely loved the ending
Having a bad taste in your mouth about a game is perfectly okay. And the creator of the game being a complete fuckhead is perfectly valid as a reasoning for said bad taste.
Sure, ten years ago no one would have cared who he was. But does that matter? It's not ten years ago anymore. We live in an era that warrants being respectful to the people that make a creator's career possible. That's why you see all this debate and backlash over AAA games being complete rehashes and madden-ized franchises... Though in that case it's not a single person taking the heat. And apparently Phil Fish stole most of the game, so his taking sole credit for it and receiving all that completely well-deserved criticism is on HIM. He could have NOT taken credit for something he didn't do. Thus staying discreet, and not warranting criticism from everyone and their mothers.
Let's get this out of the way, it doesn't technically matter if the person that made a game is a complete asshole. But I have a much better time playing Shovel Knight than I do playing Fez, and it DOES have to do with the fact that if I ever turn Fez on it throws all these thoughts my way about how fucked up the person (that took credit for) making that game was.
We are waking up as consumers and that's definitely not a bad thing. Bad people don't deserve good things, that's the simplest way to put it.
Bored Robot We're not waking up as consumers. We're taking shots at easy target. If the dev of a AAA game is an asshole, it doesn't matter, because there's team of people that keep them isolated from the public. If we stop buying games based on the people that develop them, then we would have a lot less games in our libraries and a lot less IP's in general. And if we apply this same logic to anything else other than video games, I'm sure we would have a lot fewer products to buy as well. I don't disagree that people should be more respectful, but I do disagree with singling someone out, when the same standards are impossible to hold to others. I've also read that a lot of "Stolen Code" stuffs was discredited. I honestly don't care about the game, or Phil Fish, but it's interested that people are so willing to wage a crusade on the guy when so many things that we consume are made possible by people like Phil Fish. Also, treading into the developers owe consumers more respect than normal because they make their careers possible is dangerous ground, I would much prefer that they simply develop quality products to offer, and consumers buy it if they choose to. Early Access has taught us that empowering the consumer in such a way can be disastrous for a game. It's also interesting that you brought up Shovel Knight, a decent game but a game that doesn't have a single unique idea or gameplay element.
Bored Robot Don't you ever consider that Phil was pushed to that point by internet cunts? He just didn't have a healthy way to express that negativity, and he was under the most pressure he had ever experienced in his life. Is having a little empathy for someone trying to break out of their comfort zone and try new things too much to ask? Humanity is a fuckin' rare thing these days I guess.
Bored Robot The backlash on rehashes and madden-ized franchises are because of the games themselves; not because the developers were complete douches on their comments.
Patrick Callahan I save my sympathy for people who deserve it.
Hint: most of them don't get movies made about them.
I didn't buy Fez because I didn't want to fund such a festering anus of a person.
"Hurr durr 4chins interweb haetmachine lel"
Is this 2008?
Ahhhh a story on gaming journalism. I have some experience here. I used to work for Roger Ebert and the first thing I learned there is that if you're a journalist covering a specific topic, you should never really try to tear anyone down unless it's absolutely required.
Artists are finnicky people. They're sensitive and simply wired differently. Fish is an artist. He creates. He is probably sensitive. And to have someone like Mr. Beer just kind of call him out for being an asshole is...not cool. Then again how often to rock journalists call out Bob Dylan and so on.
HOWEVER Gaming media is a little more incestuous because it's really a niche. There's the people who like games, the people who care about how they're made, then the people who really, really CARE about the whole process. Devs talk to journalists who talk to the internet who talk to PR people, and so on.
It's tricky. But I saw Indie Game the movie and I don't think Fish or Blow came off as assholes. In fact Blow came off really weel, and Fish came off as a guy struggling under the weight of his own potential genius with Fez. It happens. Someone talk to Francis Ford Coppola while he's making Apocalypse Now and see how he comes off.
You're so right, all of it was spot on. I think Phil Fish though has been completely misunderstood this whole time. No one has pointed out the Twitter comments where he says things like "...but i want you to know that you hurt me" or "i don't think you realize how much this shit hurts". It's possible he's being facetious but I don't think so. I feel this whole ordeal is a great representation of the kind of cut throat society we live in. Phil had a shit couple of years as a result he's losing the plot, but that's not allowed so instead of support everyone just condemns him and abuses him even more. I feel bad for the guy....
Ah there you are! I missed you for a little bit there! :D
To be honest, between the andy kaufman profile picture and the crazy fourth-wall-breaking troll puzzles in the game itself, it looks like he fell for his own ruse. If he's Kojima-ing the daylights out of us, he's not doing it very gracefully...
Phil Fish used to work at Ubisoft and at the same company where I worked. He didn't have that much experience as a designer anyway.
Also, people skills are essential to the job of Game/Level Designer. Phil Fish didn't have very good people skills from what I knew about him. So it didn't really come off as a surprise to me when he became a trainwreck online.
He pretty much always acted like he wasn't in his element working as part of a big team of game developers.
The initial situation boiled down to two grown men (Fish and Beer) acting like cry babies, and most people don't like cry babies so their reputations were tarnished. That's life; there are ACTIONS, and there are CONSEQUENCES.
The Andy Kaufman picture in Phil Fish's twitter profile is odd. Was Mr. Fish fascinated by Andy Kaufman's childish and trollish behavior? Was Mr. Fish not seeking fame but infamy?
as an awardwinning creator and successfull businessman, getting into a shouting match with 12-year olds and lose...blows my mind.
I would be totally down for Fish to return and get back to work. On a related note, the fact that I'd get socially skewered for saying that in this video is not OK.
I think that when you don't like someone enough, you just don't want to pay him money. It's not a matter of moral outrage, it's the equivalent of not wanting to go to a grocery store because that grocer overcharged you on tomatoes at one point. When someone talks shit, and you don't like the shit he talks about, you don't want to give them cash, so you don't buy their games. It's literally that simple.
I know what Phil went through. Its not a fun place to be.
he's a lot worse, and his show... wow, what a childish thing to do for his age... I can't watch for more than ten seconds without cringing.
Fabian Runn show?
I don't know how I had gone so long without knowing about your channel. I'm very glad to have stumbled across it about a month ago. Love the content, love the views, and always look forward to new content.
You maybe a relatively small, lesser known channel, but damn it all if you're not one of my favorites. Unbiased, well-researched and thought-out, and no stupid gimmicks. Keep up the damn fine work!
I played fez before knowing about Fish. (Being one of those people in the "maths" niche I naturally completed it to 209.4% (Dunno why they chose that as the full completion marker though)) [Where was I?] It was a good game. The puzzles were varied took me a good part of a day to work out the language numbers and tetronimoes. So here's how I would rate it-
Game 9.9/10 -
- Gameplay 9/10
- Music 10/10
- Atmosphere 10/10
- Other 10/10 (Puzzles game time etc...)
Devs 7/10 -
- Attitude 4/10
- Work 8/10
- Misjudgement 7/10
- Actual judgement 5/10
- Forethought 2/10
Price 10/10 (It so is a steal!)
Overall 9/10 So I don't see why anyone wouldn't buy it unless their just overly judgemental. Good review and information.
I don't have the most loving personality and can be extremely and brazenly crass, overstepping a boundary that was clearly over the top and dumb, but I try to use logic to temper my words and redundant logic jokes to break up my frustration.
I feel Fish just bites and attacks. But I understand why, shit's stressful. And while he does have reasons to be mad, he doesn't elaborate. So all we see is an asshole...and we don't like assholes...because it reminds us of who we are.
The internet is a blank slate where every human being is given an identity. George, aka Super Bunnyhop, grew up in a time where people didn't have aliases but now we live in a time where everyone has an alias to live their dream internet life. We take a shallow view of ourselves and parody them only. Then other parody people judge us.
Fish isn't likable. Fish attacks others. Fish doesn't seem grateful. So we gotta punish him. We punish him with the same hate he dishes and take away the money he demands for his product. So we punish him because it hurts him and makes us feel bigger than him.
If Fish just controlled his temper, life would've been easier. If he just stopped doing social media, if he just cut himself off and had a PR person (like a friend) handle his public image...y'know, the stuff we normal people can't afford so its unreasonable to ask him to have them.
But I ditched Social Media (except for TH-cam where I exercise my opinion and blind hate) long ago because everyone griped and bitched and whined. Why would I go to a website that only did that. Why go to Facebook, a website whose only purpose is for me to look at what other people are saying if those people are shitty people like me?
At least TH-cam offers something beyond the comments...or at least a more complex post for comments to form from. At least I have an illusion here, something to take me a step away from people...like Kurtz's Horror he only sees in death, I don't want to look into myself daily. That's why people wanted to punish Fish.
I like what you said about devs not being social geniuses and celebrities.
I think a lot of people forget that young devs are some of the kids we grew up along side that wanted to make video games because they loved playing them. Not because it's a big market.
I disagree with the idea that you can just ignore the personality of developers and creators. There is an effectively infinite number of games I can play, and I can choose to use my dollar to amplify the success and voice of toxic people, or I can find a game that doesn’t represent anything toxic.
Even if the world collectively ignores everything a creator does outside of their creation, and their creation does not seem to have even a hint of the dark side of their creator, it is impossible for that creation to have nothing in it from the creator.