Get a 991.2 GT Sport steering wheel and airbag. It's plug and play on my 997.1. You can even go GT3 RS alcantara striped wheel if you feel like spending money. If you have multifunction buttons there's a 3rd party adapter for that. Don't cheap out on the airbag, there are fakes on eBay. Great video and awesome garage!
I’ve had a few s2k and I think one should move on rather than staying in the same platform. If you really wanna track the cayman, I suggest you sell the 987.1 S for a 987.2 Non S if your budget is limited. Any Non S Porsche tends to go a lot cheaper and actually 987.1 S speed is very similar the 987.2 Non S time. You can do some research on it, it might sounds like a downgrade from a S to a Non S. But the .2 Non S is 265hp which is 30hp less than a stock 987.1 S, and you can pick up that 30hp with some aftermarket exhaust and header.
Another very good reflection on the realities on tracking 987.1s. I just picked up a 1-Owner 100% stock NB Miata for less than some Fk8 CTR owners are spending on their wheel/tire package. For now I am enjoying it as street car but I will track it eventually (having a blast). I loved tracking my s2000, but as I got faster, I just couldn’t justify putting a rollbar in such a nice example-especially as nice S2ks get harder to find. So the opportunist Miata saw an opening and got right into my life. Track experience is eye opening to certain realities; it changes our views on cars and priorities.
@@Zygrenecame across this video researching oil starvation on my 04 911. After the first track day I had the air oil separator go. Replaced it with the 1700 dollar deal. Next track day. I was haulin. Coolant line plastic bit failed. Third track day yesterday I was hitting pb's damn near every lap then ran into gas and oil starvation at half a tank and damn near full oil capacity. Once I sorted out the gas. Stock Porsche brake fluid almost boiled. Also wanted to go stiffer up front. Now I'm at a crossroads. Fix all this stuff with the good parts or start over again with a different car. GT4 cayman would be nice. Just nowhere near ideal
Great video. A lot about the Cayman and barely anything about the S2K. I was disappointed with that. I've had a couple '80's 911, which I totally enjoyed. I currently have an '06 S2K. I occasionally wonder if a Cayman would have been a better choice. I do miss the strong midrange grunt of the Porsche and the delicious song of the boxer 6. The S2K is a blast to drive. Top down in the mountains on a sunny day, Honda nailed it.....yea, don't think I'm ready to switch horses.
I guess it comes down to what kind of track driving you want to do. The s2k is possibly the cheapest car to track so if you want to track a cayman be ready to pay up. As a 987.1 former owner, you bought the wrong car for track duty. Spring for the 987.2 or the 981. No oil starvation ims or AOS problems. Or sell all your cars and get a gt4😂
I am so interested in the Cayman (not for track purposes) or daily driving and fun weekend drives so it does not seem the issues you mentioned in the video would effect my use of the car. That is re-assuring.
We've talked on IG about the 987.1 CS which I had before and moved to an S2000. Maintenance cost, reliability on track, extreme failures, and aftermarket are just better on the S2000. The Cayman has a FANTASTIC interior, great shifter+steering feel, and gobs more torque than the S2000. Really the 987.2 Cayman is the best for track use but the S2000 isnt far behind. Unfortunately many are PDK and there are just less 09-12 cars due to the recession.c
Everything you’re saying sounds like you’re describing my 996 mk1 (3.4L, similar hp/tq). I’ve owned a few s2k’s as well so can agree on most points. As much as I enjoyed the lower cost of ownership of the s2k’s, I don’t miss the lack of mid-range power. It’s either scream or nothing, whereas with the 911 I can enjoy in the day to day, 3-5k rpm.
Get yourself the Numeric Racing short shifter and cables. You will be so happy. I'm watching you shift and it looks like you are moving that lever a mile to make a shift.
If you still like the Cayman and want more reliability look out for 987.2 base. It is touted as the most reliable modern flat-6. You can find one around $25k.
Great video! I have an 06 tiptronic 987.1 S and it was severely neglected from the previous owner but with a bit of TLC and mods / preventative maintenance, I’ll definitely track it and see if I run into the same issues. Stay safe!
Enjoy the vids mate. Had a 09 Boxster S, now have a Supercharged s2000. Enjoying the Honda a lot more, I think partly since no one mods Boxsters lol...but it was a nice drive, def more stable than the Honda which is skittish as you mention...but suppose that adds to the fun lol
@@shenray337 hey mate, I recommend test driving them both. It also depends if you plan to keep it stock or not. There's much more of an s2000 community and more choices for aftermarket parts compared to Boxster...no one really mods Boxsters so I would still lean towards s2000. The important factor in either case since these are older cars, try to find a pretty stock one that has been well looked after.
Just bought mine and should have it next week as it is in another state. Cant wait to experience it. Mine is in Silver and has PASM, PSE and sport chrono.
Awesome video. This gives me an idea about the first gen Caymen S. I’ve thought of purchasing one but now that I’ve seen your video I’ll have to stay away from that car.
Don't let the internet comments about the 987 scare you unless you plan track it really hard on regular basis. I've done some local track days in mine and it was more than fine, and reliable enough for a long road trip. It's all about preventative maintenance.
Great video, appreciate the track use perspective. I didn't hear a mention of the IMS issues that are all over the internet. What is your opinion on this?
It's a shame so many reliability mods are needed for basic track use considering Porsche built their reputation on robust, overengineered little cars that were track-ready out of the box.
@@Zygrene I got my 987.2 CS with 102k miles on Oct 2018 and still haven't tracked it. Daily driver and added 15k miles on it. Aside from normal maintenance (oil change, air filters, etc), I only replaced the coolant expansion tank (due to age) and front breaks. No idea what my cost would be to track mine but now I'm interested :) thanks for the content!
Curveball. Ready? Motorcycle. you've done cars, you've pushed them on track. Learn to ride a bike and learn to ride it well on track. You'll learn skills you never even thought you could do. It's a challenge that a lot of car enthusiasts pass up on because it's too hard or dangerous. It's dangerous because of other drivers, or if you don't take the time to learn how to corner properly. If engagement is why we seek out manual rear wheel drive sports car, then hopping on a bike (doesn't necessarily have to be a sport bike) and taking it on the track is the ultimate engagement. I always make this suggestion to car enthusiasts looking for the next chapter in their book and every time they say "I'm afraid I'll get too addicted so I stay away" or "It's too dangerous for me". Just some food for thought
@@Zygrene that's why track is the safest and controlled environment to learn and hone skills. Streets are uncontrollable, especially for riders in the US. But I feel you
@@Zygrene Pretty sure you could pass a BAR inspection with a stock k20a2 or k24a2 in an mr2 spyder if you really wanted to. Just have to keep the stock cat and keep it the same distance along the exhaust pipe as the rsx/tsx
I’ve always loved Porsche’s although I’ve never owned one. I can see why you would purchase one, but the S2000 is timeless. It might not be as comfortable, or have the same name as Porsche, but in 20 more years people will still be talking about the S2000, not the Cayman. Just my 2 cents. Love your channel, keep up the good work.
The only thing I would say that sucked about the 981 is the 1st gen electric steering in it wasn't so great. I rented a 987.1 cayman S to compare to my 981 Boxster S and the steering was so much better in the 987.1 in terms of feel. In every other way though, yeah the 981 was better for sure! In the 718, they improved the feel greatly imo.
The problem is you already started with the best reasonably priced, daily-drivable track car (the S2000) so everything else is a step backward. The other candidates I can think of (E46 M3, FR-S, RX-8, Porsche 944) wouldn't necessarily be better, just different.
"Close to the bottom of the depreciation curve" -- buddy, no. These things will be easily found under $10-12k in a few years. The only Porsches that defy depreciation are the GT2/3/4 models or the aircooled cars. You could easily lose about 50% of the purchase price in depreciation if you hold this car for 5-6 years. - Porsche owner and enthusiast who loves these cars
would you ever get a '16 ND miata? They can be found for under 20k. You could probably get the miata and install a supercharger/turbo for under 20k total. Incredibly reliable and the chassis is far more advanced than the s2k.
I was initially VERY scared of IMS, but research told me the 987.1 IMS has a much lower failure rate than 996/986, and an oil analysis confirmed that my motor shows no signs of IMS failure (or bore scoring). Plus it's even less common on daily driven cars like mine.
I like the 987, but with some of the things you mentioned plus just overall improvements in styling and performance I'm holding out for a 981. Maybe a GT4 if I can get one with some miles on it for lower.
Great video, was always interested in Caymans for this exact purpose but doesn't look like it's particularly viable. Have you ever come across lightly track prepped 350Zs? They're pretty cheap here in Aus and I was looking at similar goals on a much tighter budget.
I come across them all the time at the track and on Craigslist but I've never driven one, even stock. 07-08 HR models seem to be great track car candidates.
@@Zygrene would be awesome if you found a viewer car to test! They're under 10k for a track pack with the DE motor which comes with Brembos and an LSD too which on paper sounds like a great deal. I'd only imagine they're dirt cheap there.
Is the notion of oil starvation and IMS bearing issue interchangeable? Or separate issues? I bought my 2006 Porsche Cayman S, black/black interior/ black CCW wheels. But unfortunately it was in the shop with the IMS bearing issue for four months
I’m driving in NJ every day despite lockdown, you don’t have to have a destination to go for a drive. I just loop around a scenic route and come back home, gas is cheap! With all the insurance and depreciation costs I am eating my cars better get driven.
Thanks for the update! I'll try tracking my 987.2 Cayman S later this year. The info on the AOS was interesting. Is this the source of the oil starvation issues of the 1st gen? I've heard Porsche supposedly fixed this in the Gen2, but I don't know if that was the AOS or dry sump.
Unfortunately the AOS isn't the main source of oil starvation. If it was that simple I'd actually just bite the $1800 bullet and upgrade to the motorsport part. This thread has a lot of good info. Better than I can explain the issue. By the way, I'm so jealous you have a 987.2 CS.
@@Zygrene Wow big $$$. I think if you ran sticky tires and upgraded the suspension, you MIGHT look into this. I would be interested if anyone has figured the actual G forces needed to cause starvation. Cayman owners are a meticulous bunch. Could run a G meter and record your highest G's on track. I did a lot of reading to. Seems oil temp is the second gen weakness. Looking into getting an OBD reader which will show me oil temp and press. Changing reg synth oil to expensive aerospace synth which should run cooler.
Zygrene that’s great news. I have only just brought my cayman 987 2008 model year back in Feb and hope I have only few issues like you. I use mine as a daily driver and it is fine so far
Good info thanks. I’m between an AP2 and a 981.2S for a dedicated track car and have concerns about reliability on the track with the cayman. I would rather spend money on track time vs the car. Curious to see what you settle on on what else you are considering. My third option right now is a full on spec car like spec Miata or spec e46.
If you want reliable, quality seat time, AP2 is really hard to beat. I only recommend non-GT Porsches if you mostly drive it on the street. I'm considering every RWD manual sportscar for under 15k at the moment.
I tried looking for your video on the post track day issue. What did it end up being? I've been considering a Cayman S as a dedicated track car, but that incident you had got me worried been apparently it wasn't serious?
@@Zygrene Yes, I saw that video but what ended up causing the white smoke? I saw you had low oil level, and check engine lights, but what caused all the problems? That looked like a bad AOS or something to bellow out white smoke like that. I saw that it needed to be flatbedded but then a couple vids later and it's back on the road. Did it just clear up on it's own? Do you think the low oil was caused by bore scoring common with the 987 S engines?
@@Zygrene Good to know, thanks for the reply. Besides the AOS, do you think the Cayman would hold up well as a dedicated track car, reliability is my main concern. Any other weaknesses you noticed that were exposed with track use? I know the Corvette is the "Go To" choice for dedicated track use without a pit crew, but I want something differrent and mid-engine for dedicated track duty. I've tracked Vipers, GTR's, and other stuff in the past but they were also my street rides and the wear and tear of track use "aged" the cars quickly and it got relatively expensive, especially in the case of the GTR ($8000+ a season on rotors, pads, tires, and fluids). Now that I have moved on to a mid-engine track-ready car as my weekend warrior, I love the way it carves the road, but it would be cost prohibitive to run it on the track more than a couple times. I've been spoiled and I need to get my track fix, and the Cayman/Boxster route has really got my attention and seems to have tons of potential for a mid-engine setup. Decent ones can be picked up under $15k which is great. Thanks again for your input!
Trade in the Cayman S for a 997.1 Carrera S! I use mine as a daily and it also sees ~4 track days a year, it's 99% stock (except for Fister exhaust mod and Numeric racing shifter/cables). You'll have to worry about oil starvation (add a baffle just like the Cayman) and the IMS bearing but once you get over those things you're golden.
997.1 C2S was my original goal last year but I couldn't find any good examples in my price range. Still happy with the Cayman. Kinda just want a cheap beater track car.
I just installed a set of DS2500's for my first track day with my 987.1 Boxster. How did you install the brake pad sensor? They didn't come drilled with the hole to place the senor in correctly like the OEM pad.
Great video love your content. I've been considering buying a 2007/model year 2008 987.1 Cayman s design edition 1. Ive been a bit over whelmed by seeing all these IMS and bore scoring issues on the forums. Seeing your video has helped give me some clarity as i 100% won't be tracking it. I live in Cape Town, South Africa where the climate is very dry and averages 50-80 F ,very moderate climate. Unfortunately i have to leave my car sitting for 6-9 months at a time every year as i live out of the country half the year. Any recommendations for start ups on 987.1 cayman s at say 55-75 f temp when i return to SA? Do you think leaving the car for these long periods is bad for the ims bearing? Do you think the fact that i have to leave the car sitting so long should stop me from buying the car(its from OPC with ppi 111 check completed? is the 0/40 , 5w/50 or 5w/40 a better oil choice? As i mentioned I 100% won't be tracking the car its more for daily and canyon driving in the mountains. Ive asked several specialists here in South Africa both private and with OPC and everyone seems to say no cars 987.1 caymans fail from Bore scoring and its practically non existent. Also Very Rare for Ims bearings to fail here in SA and after mid 2005 almost no cases of its failure at all. Thanks for your time!
I'm definitely no expert when it comes to IMS and temps, but I've read many posts saying these cars (and 996/986) need to be driven regularly to keep the IMS well lubricated. 6-9 months sounds like a long time to store the car. If anything I'd recommend looking at a 996 with the LN IMS upgrade for about the same price as a 987.1. Probably the route I should have gone, honestly.
Although... if you're not tracking the car I wouldn't worry about it too much. I've also heard 987.1 IMS failure rate is very very low. It's bore scoring that is the main concern. Maybe run Motul 8100 5W40. 50 weight is beneficial for track use but probably not needed for a street car.
@@Zygrene Thanks for your replay. Ya my heads been spinning for several weeks trying to decide what to do. Just sold my B7 RS4 and really had my heart set on a lighter mid engine car with less horse power but a more pure and balanced feeling tone. From all the research ive seen bore scoring really mostly occurs when you track them, live in really cold climate and don't warm them up properly or neglect them. Have you had your cylinders checked for bore scoring after taking your car to the track and having those issues? I was really tempted with the 996 but they also suffer from bore scoring and its really hard to find a clean one in SA that's had the new ims installed. Also then you have the fried egg head lights and the truly dated interior. Ive also heard the gear box in the 6 speed cayman S is great and very similar to the 997 which i loved test driving. Then you have 997.1 911 but again most specialists say the 3.6 and 3.8 engines in the 996 and 997 have highest % of failure rates and also the 997 is basically double the price or more for a clean one. Sadly 98% of all 987.2 cayman in South Africa and 997.2 are all pdk which i would not consider. At the end of the day this Cayman really ticks all the boxes it has sport chrono, pasm, and pse, 19 inch turbo wheels all from porsche and its a limited edition design edition 1(777 made) only serviced at porsche so basically she's a unicorn. It also comes with 6 month/10,000 warranty from official Porsche center. Apparently mid 07 to 08 gen 1 987 cayman s all come upgraded from the factory with a stronger fuel or oil pump that helps the larger ims bearing fail even less than 1%, i can't remember exactly what they told me but was something like that. Across the board i think all these these m96/m97 engines(986,987,996,997 prefer moderate temperate climates with low humidity which SA is famous for. The coldest it gets here is about 45 degrees during winter. Anyway thanks again for taking the time to post what you have been learning. Decided to go with the cayman s :)
Including the expenses of repairs and track upgrades, does a 6sp 997.1 C2 make more sense for track/daily use? It sounds like the Cayman is just not suited for track use since almost every system has to be upgraded to keep the car from having a mechanical failure. I guess that’s where the S2000 shines so much, you just buy one and you’re more or less good to go. It’s not likely to break anything significant from track use.
I think 997.1 is more reliable but it's also a more expensive car. I'm starting to look at other cheap RWD options for dedicated track use. Maybe S2000, maybe something else.
@@Zygrene 997.1 has almost exactly the same issues if used often on track, oiling been the main one. porsche for track use => GT3 and up. otherwise don't even bother. it does not make sense...
I’m thinking about selling my g35 and getting one of these. Is this a terrible choice for a college student on track to graduate debt free? Would I need a separate car for winter?
Get whatever you want that is affordable to you and it should be fine since you seem to have a handle on debt. No need to get a separate winter car if you are willing to change the tires. Quality tires are extremely important for all weather conditions.
I personally owned a 2006 Cayman S and absolutely loved it. The Cayman S around the first corner, you'll scream "holy shit, I'm in a supercar." Then it had a IMS bearing issue ($10k to fix-- returned to dealership) then I bought an S2000, $7000 in maintenance over 5 years of ownership, not too bad. Now it'll run for another 100,000 miles with no issues. :) If you have ~60k miles a MUST is a mechanical warranty. Last thing I wish is for you to see the check engine lights that I saw on a 14 year old Porsche. Not fun when it's in the shop for 3 of the 4 months of ownership. :'(
I have the same car, year. and even color. Blew up my engine at the Auto Club Speedway last April will cost me $24K in repair. It's a shame that this car which looks great and handles great but can't take the stress of track duty.
Bro, how freaked out were you with check engine light at the track? One of my scariest moments ever in that Porsche. Glad I bought the 2003 S2000 with 33k miles. I've had my eyes on a 2013 Boxster in the $24k range in a year or two. Thoughts? Does yours have the Bose stereo with 11 speakers? (Subwoofer near the passenger seat area?) Mine had the sport steering wheel, chronos etc. Just get a Miata for the track. :)
981 Boxster manual for 24k sounds like a great buy. I'd take that over my car any day. I never bothered to count the speakers but I do have the 2 woofers mounted on either side of the engine cover. There's a ton of bass but the treble/midrange are very weak. Buy Other Sound Equipment!
@@Zygrene yep sounds like you got the optional Bose with the 11 speaker. I remember it being one of the best stereos in any car that I've ever been in. When they put me in a 2017 BMW 328i all I thought about was how much of a piece of crap that BMW was compared to the Porsche
@@Zygrene in one of the Cayman S 'one take videos' one of the dudes specifies where he got his stock steering wheel beefed up to be very similar to the optional racing wheel. Check it out if you'd wanna go with a meat-ier wheel. Did it take you a while to find your car?
I'm shocked at this being so hard to get it trackable. I thought out it's f the box this would have been a monster. I feel for you. I would have been in the same boat. I would just do LS swap 😉
Maybe you would have been happier in an e90? I get the allure of the cayman, but the m3 is awesome to drive and doesn't have the track use problems of the cayman.
I almost bought an E92 M3 a week before I got the Cayman. Unfortunately the dealer was super shady and wouldn't do anything about the massive valve cover gasket leak I found under the hood.
Ah I see. I'm sure you know all about them then. Maybe you can find one from a like-minded owner with track friendly mods (for best value) this time around if you're still considering the platform.
Depends. Both are great cars but the Cayman is much easier for me to live with as a daily, while the NSX is the car I want to drive once in a while for pleasure.
I didn't cook the clutch. My mechanic found the pressure plate spring had broken, which explains why the clutch failed suddenly with no warning. Clutch disc itself was still in good shape.
@@zacharyparis well if you ever owned a Honda you would know that their transmission failed often. Honda tries to deny it until it blows up. Look it up.
@@Zygrene just from street driving. The mileage was 75567. Tip for you if you hold a piece of paper behind the exhaust and get someone to rev it if you have oil spots on the paper, get it looked at immediately. As I had a dark patch on my wall at home where i started my car. It just started appearing and i thought nothing of it. Then the tick of death started. Then loss of power. I still have the car for now but it will be going as paying half what you paid for the car in repairs was a bitter pill to swallow. That was after I had the gearbox rebuilt as they have a habit of shitting them as well. (One very disappointed Porsche owner)
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Very rare to see people actually be critical of cars and comparing them. Very much needed in this community.
Get a 991.2 GT Sport steering wheel and airbag. It's plug and play on my 997.1. You can even go GT3 RS alcantara striped wheel if you feel like spending money. If you have multifunction buttons there's a 3rd party adapter for that. Don't cheap out on the airbag, there are fakes on eBay.
Great video and awesome garage!
Any further information on the multifunction adapter? I have a 997 1.5 and the 991 steering wheel would really jazz it up a bit.
Transparent - love it. I'll say one thing, 'escalation of commitment' has snagged me more than once.
Wonder how many s2000 owners are watching this video for the interest of upgrading to a Cayman :) thanks for the informative video!
I love your content. Whatever track car you end up with, I'll like, share, and subscribe.
I’ve had a few s2k and I think one should move on rather than staying in the same platform. If you really wanna track the cayman, I suggest you sell the 987.1 S for a 987.2 Non S if your budget is limited. Any Non S Porsche tends to go a lot cheaper and actually 987.1 S speed is very similar the 987.2 Non S time. You can do some research on it, it might sounds like a downgrade from a S to a Non S. But the .2 Non S is 265hp which is 30hp less than a stock 987.1 S, and you can pick up that 30hp with some aftermarket exhaust and header.
Another very good reflection on the realities on tracking 987.1s. I just picked up a 1-Owner 100% stock NB Miata for less than some Fk8 CTR owners are spending on their wheel/tire package. For now I am enjoying it as street car but I will track it eventually (having a blast). I loved tracking my s2000, but as I got faster, I just couldn’t justify putting a rollbar in such a nice example-especially as nice S2ks get harder to find. So the opportunist Miata saw an opening and got right into my life. Track experience is eye opening to certain realities; it changes our views on cars and priorities.
That last statement resonates with me 100%! Nice pick up on the NB.
Zygrene 👍
I like the really specific mod/track information
Hoping it'll help anyone else who's looking to track these cars!
@@Zygrenecame across this video researching oil starvation on my 04 911. After the first track day I had the air oil separator go. Replaced it with the 1700 dollar deal. Next track day. I was haulin. Coolant line plastic bit failed. Third track day yesterday I was hitting pb's damn near every lap then ran into gas and oil starvation at half a tank and damn near full oil capacity. Once I sorted out the gas. Stock Porsche brake fluid almost boiled. Also wanted to go stiffer up front. Now I'm at a crossroads. Fix all this stuff with the good parts or start over again with a different car. GT4 cayman would be nice. Just nowhere near ideal
Do yourself a favor. dont listen to anyone that is telling you to track a german car...to be frank honda reliability has spoiled you. lol
I just need a GT4/GT3 in my life. German + reliable on track
Great video. A lot about the Cayman and barely anything about the S2K. I was disappointed with that. I've had a couple '80's 911, which I totally enjoyed. I currently have an '06 S2K. I occasionally wonder if a Cayman would have been a better choice. I do miss the strong midrange grunt of the Porsche and the delicious song of the boxer 6. The S2K is a blast to drive. Top down in the mountains on a sunny day, Honda nailed it.....yea, don't think I'm ready to switch horses.
I guess it comes down to what kind of track driving you want to do. The s2k is possibly the cheapest car to track so if you want to track a cayman be ready to pay up. As a 987.1 former owner, you bought the wrong car for track duty. Spring for the 987.2 or the 981. No oil starvation ims or AOS problems. Or sell all your cars and get a gt4😂
I am so interested in the Cayman (not for track purposes) or daily driving and fun weekend drives so it does not seem the issues you mentioned in the video would effect my use of the car. That is re-assuring.
Your driving is looking smooth! Sometimes a long break is what it takes to integrate what you've learned.
Definitely! Sometimes when I drive too much, I repeat the same bad habits. Taking a break almost always helps.
We've talked on IG about the 987.1 CS which I had before and moved to an S2000.
Maintenance cost, reliability on track, extreme failures, and aftermarket are just better on the S2000.
The Cayman has a FANTASTIC interior, great shifter+steering feel, and gobs more torque than the S2000.
Really the 987.2 Cayman is the best for track use but the S2000 isnt far behind. Unfortunately many are PDK and there are just less 09-12 cars due to the recession.c
Prices on the 987.2 are much higher too. Might as well get a 981
Everything you’re saying sounds like you’re describing my 996 mk1 (3.4L, similar hp/tq). I’ve owned a few s2k’s as well so can agree on most points. As much as I enjoyed the lower cost of ownership of the s2k’s, I don’t miss the lack of mid-range power. It’s either scream or nothing, whereas with the 911 I can enjoy in the day to day, 3-5k rpm.
Exactly. For a mostly street driven car I much prefer a 3.4L Porsche. If I got another S2K I'd prob make it track-only.
Get yourself the Numeric Racing short shifter and cables. You will be so happy. I'm watching you shift and it looks like you are moving that lever a mile to make a shift.
If you still like the Cayman and want more reliability look out for 987.2 base. It is touted as the most reliable modern flat-6. You can find one around $25k.
Great video! I have an 06 tiptronic 987.1 S and it was severely neglected from the previous owner but with a bit of TLC and mods / preventative maintenance, I’ll definitely track it and see if I run into the same issues. Stay safe!
Keep us posted on your results! I read all my comments on YT and IG
Enjoy the vids mate. Had a 09 Boxster S, now have a Supercharged s2000. Enjoying the Honda a lot more, I think partly since no one mods Boxsters lol...but it was a nice drive, def more stable than the Honda which is skittish as you mention...but suppose that adds to the fun lol
How about boxster s and s2000 non supercharged mate? I’m struggle in choosing in these two. What’s your suggestion?
@@shenray337 hey mate, I recommend test driving them both. It also depends if you plan to keep it stock or not. There's much more of an s2000 community and more choices for aftermarket parts compared to Boxster...no one really mods Boxsters so I would still lean towards s2000. The important factor in either case since these are older cars, try to find a pretty stock one that has been well looked after.
Just bought mine and should have it next week as it is in another state. Cant wait to experience it. Mine is in Silver and has PASM, PSE and sport chrono.
Awesome video. This gives me an idea about the first gen Caymen S. I’ve thought of purchasing one but now that I’ve seen your video I’ll have to stay away from that car.
Don't let the internet comments about the 987 scare you unless you plan track it really hard on regular basis. I've done some local track days in mine and it was more than fine, and reliable enough for a long road trip. It's all about preventative maintenance.
Great video, appreciate the track use perspective. I didn't hear a mention of the IMS issues that are all over the internet. What is your opinion on this?
I sent an oil sample to Blackstone and they said no signs of IMS wear or bore scoring. Chance of IMS issue in 987.1 seems to be overblown.
It's a shame so many reliability mods are needed for basic track use considering Porsche built their reputation on robust, overengineered little cars that were track-ready out of the box.
Agreed. 987.2 and later models really fixed a lot of these issues, but the price reflects it.
@@Zygrene I got my 987.2 CS with 102k miles on Oct 2018 and still haven't tracked it. Daily driver and added 15k miles on it. Aside from normal maintenance (oil change, air filters, etc), I only replaced the coolant expansion tank (due to age) and front breaks. No idea what my cost would be to track mine but now I'm interested :) thanks for the content!
Curveball. Ready? Motorcycle.
you've done cars, you've pushed them on track. Learn to ride a bike and learn to ride it well on track. You'll learn skills you never even thought you could do. It's a challenge that a lot of car enthusiasts pass up on because it's too hard or dangerous. It's dangerous because of other drivers, or if you don't take the time to learn how to corner properly. If engagement is why we seek out manual rear wheel drive sports car, then hopping on a bike (doesn't necessarily have to be a sport bike) and taking it on the track is the ultimate engagement. I always make this suggestion to car enthusiasts looking for the next chapter in their book and every time they say "I'm afraid I'll get too addicted so I stay away" or "It's too dangerous for me". Just some food for thought
Too terrified and unwilling to take the risk. I have several friends who have been in accidents involving trips to the hospital.
@@Zygrene that's why track is the safest and controlled environment to learn and hone skills. Streets are uncontrollable, especially for riders in the US. But I feel you
k-swapped mr2 spyder time? then you can do an NSX vs homemade NSX vs mid-engine porsche comparison
I'd like to keep it street legal and cheap (for now) so K swaps are out of the question. That would be a killer 3 way comparo though.
@@Zygrene Pretty sure you could pass a BAR inspection with a stock k20a2 or k24a2 in an mr2 spyder if you really wanted to. Just have to keep the stock cat and keep it the same distance along the exhaust pipe as the rsx/tsx
I’ve always loved Porsche’s although I’ve never owned one. I can see why you would purchase one, but the S2000 is timeless. It might not be as comfortable, or have the same name as Porsche, but in 20 more years people will still be talking about the S2000, not the Cayman. Just my 2 cents. Love your channel, keep up the good work.
Both are fantastic cars for different reasons. The cayman is the last analog NA mid engines Porsche. It will be a classic just like the S2000.
The only thing I would say that sucked about the 981 is the 1st gen electric steering in it wasn't so great. I rented a 987.1 cayman S to compare to my 981 Boxster S and the steering was so much better in the 987.1 in terms of feel. In every other way though, yeah the 981 was better for sure! In the 718, they improved the feel greatly imo.
The problem is you already started with the best reasonably priced, daily-drivable track car (the S2000) so everything else is a step backward. The other candidates I can think of (E46 M3, FR-S, RX-8, Porsche 944) wouldn't necessarily be better, just different.
Definitely wouldn't be better in terms of fun factor. Just thought I'd try something different before I inevitably go back to the S2000
what is that mobile phone holder you are using it. It seems to be very nice and fit just right for the car. Please share the source of it!
"Close to the bottom of the depreciation curve" -- buddy, no. These things will be easily found under $10-12k in a few years. The only Porsches that defy depreciation are the GT2/3/4 models or the aircooled cars. You could easily lose about 50% of the purchase price in depreciation if you hold this car for 5-6 years.
- Porsche owner and enthusiast who loves these cars
would you ever get a '16 ND miata? They can be found for under 20k. You could probably get the miata and install a supercharger/turbo for under 20k total. Incredibly reliable and the chassis is far more advanced than the s2k.
Once the ND1 is closer to 12k I'd consider it. For 15-20k I'd still rather have a clean AP2 because reasons :)
@@Zygrene you can find some 16 sports close I've seen them around $14k
Thanks for the track specific information. Great video. Do you have any concerns around the IMS bearing reliability for track?
I was initially VERY scared of IMS, but research told me the 987.1 IMS has a much lower failure rate than 996/986, and an oil analysis confirmed that my motor shows no signs of IMS failure (or bore scoring). Plus it's even less common on daily driven cars like mine.
Just custom fit 2 standard air/oil separators to double the throughput!
wow, cool ad at the beginning bro! lol. you sold me with your great acting.
I like the 987, but with some of the things you mentioned plus just overall improvements in styling and performance I'm holding out for a 981. Maybe a GT4 if I can get one with some miles on it for lower.
See my latest video for my impressions on the 981 GT4!
@@Zygrene yep, watched that one yesterday!
Great video, was always interested in Caymans for this exact purpose but doesn't look like it's particularly viable. Have you ever come across lightly track prepped 350Zs? They're pretty cheap here in Aus and I was looking at similar goals on a much tighter budget.
I come across them all the time at the track and on Craigslist but I've never driven one, even stock. 07-08 HR models seem to be great track car candidates.
@@Zygrene would be awesome if you found a viewer car to test! They're under 10k for a track pack with the DE motor which comes with Brembos and an LSD too which on paper sounds like a great deal. I'd only imagine they're dirt cheap there.
I have 2 examples in my queue to review. One is a no-f***s-given drift build and the other a near bone stock example. Hoping to make both happen soon!
That's awesome looking forward to it soon! :D
Is the notion of oil starvation and IMS bearing issue interchangeable? Or separate issues?
I bought my 2006 Porsche Cayman S, black/black interior/ black CCW wheels. But unfortunately it was in the shop with the IMS bearing issue for four months
I’m driving in NJ every day despite lockdown, you don’t have to have a destination to go for a drive. I just loop around a scenic route and come back home, gas is cheap! With all the insurance and depreciation costs I am eating my cars better get driven.
Very true, and exactly how I plan to spend my free time from now until things calm down!
Thanks for the update! I'll try tracking my 987.2 Cayman S later this year. The info on the AOS was interesting. Is this the source of the oil starvation issues of the 1st gen? I've heard Porsche supposedly fixed this in the Gen2, but I don't know if that was the AOS or dry sump.
Unfortunately the AOS isn't the main source of oil starvation. If it was that simple I'd actually just bite the $1800 bullet and upgrade to the motorsport part. This thread has a lot of good info. Better than I can explain the issue. By the way, I'm so jealous you have a 987.2 CS.
www.planet-9.com/threads/deep-sump-accusump-vs-deep-sump-dual-tandem-scavenge-pumps.86118/
@@Zygrene Wow big $$$. I think if you ran sticky tires and upgraded the suspension, you MIGHT look into this. I would be interested if anyone has figured the actual G forces needed to cause starvation. Cayman owners are a meticulous bunch. Could run a G meter and record your highest G's on track. I did a lot of reading to. Seems oil temp is the second gen weakness. Looking into getting an OBD reader which will show me oil temp and press. Changing reg synth oil to expensive aerospace synth which should run cooler.
Where are those roads? I live in OC.
E36 M3 next? You can pick up a track E36 caged and all for 15-20k.
Would definitely consider
In the $15k range just get a '16 Miata
Hi
Great vid
Did you have any trouble with shifter cables breaking, especially on track days? Hear a lot about those breaking
I've heard about that issue but my shifter held up fine
Zygrene that’s great news. I have only just brought my cayman 987 2008 model year back in Feb and hope I have only few issues like you. I use mine as a daily driver and it is fine so far
Not sure where you are, buttttt Calaveras v Mines? Thoughts?
Good info thanks. I’m between an AP2 and a 981.2S for a dedicated track car and have concerns about reliability on the track with the cayman. I would rather spend money on track time vs the car. Curious to see what you settle on on what else you are considering. My third option right now is a full on spec car like spec Miata or spec e46.
If you want reliable, quality seat time, AP2 is really hard to beat. I only recommend non-GT Porsches if you mostly drive it on the street. I'm considering every RWD manual sportscar for under 15k at the moment.
Zygrene sounds like we are on the hunt for the same thing. Curious to see what you find.
I tried looking for your video on the post track day issue. What did it end up being? I've been considering a Cayman S as a dedicated track car, but that incident you had got me worried been apparently it wasn't serious?
th-cam.com/video/eGi9WINee14/w-d-xo.html
@@Zygrene Yes, I saw that video but what ended up causing the white smoke? I saw you had low oil level, and check engine lights, but what caused all the problems? That looked like a bad AOS or something to bellow out white smoke like that. I saw that it needed to be flatbedded but then a couple vids later and it's back on the road. Did it just clear up on it's own? Do you think the low oil was caused by bore scoring common with the 987 S engines?
Yeah the AOS just couldn't do its job in the track. Replaced it and car's been running flawlessly since.
@@Zygrene Good to know, thanks for the reply. Besides the AOS, do you think the Cayman would hold up well as a dedicated track car, reliability is my main concern. Any other weaknesses you noticed that were exposed with track use? I know the Corvette is the "Go To" choice for dedicated track use without a pit crew, but I want something differrent and mid-engine for dedicated track duty. I've tracked Vipers, GTR's, and other stuff in the past but they were also my street rides and the wear and tear of track use "aged" the cars quickly and it got relatively expensive, especially in the case of the GTR ($8000+ a season on rotors, pads, tires, and fluids). Now that I have moved on to a mid-engine track-ready car as my weekend warrior, I love the way it carves the road, but it would be cost prohibitive to run it on the track more than a couple times. I've been spoiled and I need to get my track fix, and the Cayman/Boxster route has really got my attention and seems to have tons of potential for a mid-engine setup. Decent ones can be picked up under $15k which is great. Thanks again for your input!
Please can you do a comparison video with a 987.2 Cayman S, in terms of ownership and their ability to handle track work.
I dunno anyone in Cali with a 987.2 :(
Trade in the Cayman S for a 997.1 Carrera S! I use mine as a daily and it also sees ~4 track days a year, it's 99% stock (except for Fister exhaust mod and Numeric racing shifter/cables). You'll have to worry about oil starvation (add a baffle just like the Cayman) and the IMS bearing but once you get over those things you're golden.
997.1 C2S was my original goal last year but I couldn't find any good examples in my price range. Still happy with the Cayman. Kinda just want a cheap beater track car.
Do low temp thermostat and center radiator. Just low temp thermostat makes big difference plus run 5w40 oil instead of 0w40
Which 5W40 is recommended? I've heard a lot of people run Driven XP9 which is 10W40 I think
I'm still thinking a 2003 S2000 with 255 square and aero is the way to go for me
Can't go wrong but I'm an AP2 fanboy now
@@Zygrene You should go settle some of the AP1 vs AP2 debates on Facebook s2k groups. Haha.
Better go with an AP2 if you wanna maximize that wheel tire combo
I just installed a set of DS2500's for my first track day with my 987.1 Boxster. How did you install the brake pad sensor? They didn't come drilled with the hole to place the senor in correctly like the OEM pad.
I removed the sensors. Car shows a brake light warning on every startup. Annoying but worth the extra braking performance especially on the track.
Great video love your content. I've been considering buying a 2007/model year 2008 987.1 Cayman s design edition 1. Ive been a bit over whelmed by seeing all these IMS and bore scoring issues on the forums. Seeing your video has helped give me some clarity as i 100% won't be tracking it. I live in Cape Town, South Africa where the climate is very dry and averages 50-80 F ,very moderate climate.
Unfortunately i have to leave my car sitting for 6-9 months at a time every year as i live out of the country half the year. Any recommendations for start ups on 987.1 cayman s at say 55-75 f temp when i return to SA? Do you think leaving the car for these long periods is bad for the ims bearing? Do you think the fact that i have to leave the car sitting so long should stop me from buying the car(its from OPC with ppi 111 check completed? is the 0/40 , 5w/50 or 5w/40 a better oil choice? As i mentioned I 100% won't be tracking the car its more for daily and canyon driving in the mountains.
Ive asked several specialists here in South Africa both private and with OPC and everyone seems to say no cars 987.1 caymans fail from Bore scoring and its practically non existent. Also Very Rare for Ims bearings to fail here in SA and after mid 2005 almost no cases of its failure at all. Thanks for your time!
I'm definitely no expert when it comes to IMS and temps, but I've read many posts saying these cars (and 996/986) need to be driven regularly to keep the IMS well lubricated. 6-9 months sounds like a long time to store the car. If anything I'd recommend looking at a 996 with the LN IMS upgrade for about the same price as a 987.1. Probably the route I should have gone, honestly.
Although... if you're not tracking the car I wouldn't worry about it too much. I've also heard 987.1 IMS failure rate is very very low. It's bore scoring that is the main concern. Maybe run Motul 8100 5W40. 50 weight is beneficial for track use but probably not needed for a street car.
@@Zygrene Thanks for your replay. Ya my heads been spinning for several weeks trying to decide what to do. Just sold my B7 RS4 and really had my heart set on a lighter mid engine car with less horse power but a more pure and balanced feeling tone. From all the research ive seen bore scoring really mostly occurs when you track them, live in really cold climate and don't warm them up properly or neglect them. Have you had your cylinders checked for bore scoring after taking your car to the track and having those issues?
I was really tempted with the 996 but they also suffer from bore scoring and its really hard to find a clean one in SA that's had the new ims installed. Also then you have the fried egg head lights and the truly dated interior. Ive also heard the gear box in the 6 speed cayman S is great and very similar to the 997 which i loved test driving. Then you have 997.1 911 but again most specialists say the 3.6 and 3.8 engines in the 996 and 997 have highest % of failure rates and also the 997 is basically double the price or more for a clean one. Sadly 98% of all 987.2 cayman in South Africa and 997.2 are all pdk which i would not consider.
At the end of the day this Cayman really ticks all the boxes it has sport chrono, pasm, and pse, 19 inch turbo wheels all from porsche and its a limited edition design edition 1(777 made) only serviced at porsche so basically she's a unicorn. It also comes with 6 month/10,000 warranty from official Porsche center. Apparently mid 07 to 08 gen 1 987 cayman s all come upgraded from the factory with a stronger fuel or oil pump that helps the larger ims bearing fail even less than 1%, i can't remember exactly what they told me but was something like that. Across the board i think all these these m96/m97 engines(986,987,996,997 prefer moderate temperate climates with low humidity which SA is famous for. The coldest it gets here is about 45 degrees during winter.
Anyway thanks again for taking the time to post what you have been learning. Decided to go with the cayman s :)
For what it's worth, I had an oil analysis done shortly after purchase and it came back with no signs of bore scoring or IMS failure
Including the expenses of repairs and track upgrades, does a 6sp 997.1 C2 make more sense for track/daily use? It sounds like the Cayman is just not suited for track use since almost every system has to be upgraded to keep the car from having a mechanical failure. I guess that’s where the S2000 shines so much, you just buy one and you’re more or less good to go. It’s not likely to break anything significant from track use.
I think 997.1 is more reliable but it's also a more expensive car. I'm starting to look at other cheap RWD options for dedicated track use. Maybe S2000, maybe something else.
@@Zygrene 997.1 has almost exactly the same issues if used often on track, oiling been the main one. porsche for track use => GT3 and up. otherwise don't even bother. it does not make sense...
I see another S2K in your future, haha. Or an E36/46 M3.
You might be onto something...
I’m thinking about selling my g35 and getting one of these. Is this a terrible choice for a college student on track to graduate debt free? Would I need a separate car for winter?
Get whatever you want that is affordable to you and it should be fine since you seem to have a handle on debt. No need to get a separate winter car if you are willing to change the tires. Quality tires are extremely important for all weather conditions.
is GT86/BRZ with k24 swap legal in Cali? otherwise nice content, thanks for the info...
I'm pretty sure it's not CARB legal. There might be a way to make it pass, but not worth the $$$ and hassle
track: ariel atom
way too much $$$ unfortunately
@@Zygrene Turbo miata, cheap, fast, fun and reliable if done right
I personally owned a 2006 Cayman S and absolutely loved it. The Cayman S around the first corner, you'll scream "holy shit, I'm in a supercar."
Then it had a IMS bearing issue ($10k to fix-- returned to dealership) then I bought an S2000, $7000 in maintenance over 5 years of ownership, not too bad. Now it'll run for another 100,000 miles with no issues. :)
If you have ~60k miles a MUST is a mechanical warranty. Last thing I wish is for you to see the check engine lights that I saw on a 14 year old Porsche. Not fun when it's in the shop for 3 of the 4 months of ownership. :'(
C6 z06 next
I have the same car, year. and even color. Blew up my engine at the Auto Club Speedway last April will cost me $24K in repair. It's a shame that this car which looks great and handles great but can't take the stress of track duty.
Boxster or s2000?
Yooooo not the homie doing infomercials too 😂😂😂😂😂😂. What’s with the audio? They stole your mic and made you do the pitch to get it back?
stock 987.1 good for curvy roads, not track. 987.2 no prob
Bro, how freaked out were you with check engine light at the track? One of my scariest moments ever in that Porsche. Glad I bought the 2003 S2000 with 33k miles.
I've had my eyes on a 2013 Boxster in the $24k range in a year or two. Thoughts?
Does yours have the Bose stereo with 11 speakers? (Subwoofer near the passenger seat area?) Mine had the sport steering wheel, chronos etc.
Just get a Miata for the track. :)
981 Boxster manual for 24k sounds like a great buy. I'd take that over my car any day. I never bothered to count the speakers but I do have the 2 woofers mounted on either side of the engine cover. There's a ton of bass but the treble/midrange are very weak. Buy Other Sound Equipment!
Yeah at first I thought "oh **** I probably lost the motor" but luckily the AOS failure is common and non catastrophic
@@Zygrene thank God!!!
@@Zygrene yep sounds like you got the optional Bose with the 11 speaker. I remember it being one of the best stereos in any car that I've ever been in. When they put me in a 2017 BMW 328i all I thought about was how much of a piece of crap that BMW was compared to the Porsche
@@Zygrene in one of the Cayman S 'one take videos' one of the dudes specifies where he got his stock steering wheel beefed up to be very similar to the optional racing wheel. Check it out if you'd wanna go with a meat-ier wheel. Did it take you a while to find your car?
Nsx is a life car.
I'm shocked at this being so hard to get it trackable. I thought out it's f the box this would have been a monster. I feel for you. I would have been in the same boat. I would just do LS swap 😉
4 year ownership cost for my old ass 2003 S2K = 160 bucks for oil.
Good vid, but you SERIOUSLY need to invest in a better mic
Maybe you would have been happier in an e90? I get the allure of the cayman, but the m3 is awesome to drive and doesn't have the track use problems of the cayman.
I almost bought an E92 M3 a week before I got the Cayman. Unfortunately the dealer was super shady and wouldn't do anything about the massive valve cover gasket leak I found under the hood.
Ah I see. I'm sure you know all about them then. Maybe you can find one from a like-minded owner with track friendly mods (for best value) this time around if you're still considering the platform.
Zygrene dooooo it haha I traded my 987.1S for the E92 a few weeks ago and don’t regret it one bit
I doubt a jump starter this small can do anything. Most jump starter are huge in size
Started my friend's Fiesta ST just fine
I have an S2K I don’t intend on selling. Would the Cayman or the NSX pair better with it?
Depends. Both are great cars but the Cayman is much easier for me to live with as a daily, while the NSX is the car I want to drive once in a while for pleasure.
It's been really reliable, only driven it 8k miles and cooked the clutch
I didn't cook the clutch. My mechanic found the pressure plate spring had broken, which explains why the clutch failed suddenly with no warning. Clutch disc itself was still in good shape.
I need you to do a z4m video
Check out my Z4 M NASA ST4 video
Insanely underrated car
Get a 986 racecar
tracked my 987.1s for 2 seasons, aos failed and hydrolocked the engine on track...
Wow what a nightmare. Were you running stock or motorsport AOS?
Zygrene stock AOS
Porsche is possibly over-rated and over-priced relative to the S2000.
4X4XFAR that’s what people can’t afford a Porsche keep telling themselves
Who cares how good the car is if it’s sitting in the shop half the time. I’d take the Honda any day of the week.
@@zacharyparis says who? Porshes according reliability reports score higher than Honda
Hon it’s not Porsche vs Honda. It’s Cayman vs S2000. I guarantee the Cayman has far more issues.
@@zacharyparis well if you ever owned a Honda you would know that their transmission failed often. Honda tries to deny it until it blows up. Look it up.
didnt know fenton was so yoked
👍🏻💪🏻
Have fun with it until you get bore scoring like I did then lose £8000 having it rebuilt. Great car shit engine
Did you get bore scoring from track use or just street driving? And what was the mileage?
@@Zygrene just from street driving. The mileage was 75567. Tip for you if you hold a piece of paper behind the exhaust and get someone to rev it if you have oil spots on the paper, get it looked at immediately. As I had a dark patch on my wall at home where i started my car. It just started appearing and i thought nothing of it. Then the tick of death started. Then loss of power.
I still have the car for now but it will be going as paying half what you paid for the car in repairs was a bitter pill to swallow. That was after I had the gearbox rebuilt as they have a habit of shitting them as well.
(One very disappointed Porsche owner)
Haha. The driving off skits
100% captured on candid camera
"Drive," according to your arm.