I really like how all the youtube channels teaching this trade are all interconnected and all agree on the important stuff. This channel, Ty, HVAC School, that compressor guy, all these people reference each other and respect each other. So nice to see. In other trades, this channel badmouths that channel, the other channel says this channel is giving terrible advice, and it goes on and on and on so that newcomers like myself don't know who to listen to.
God bless the inventors of AC and god bless those that come to fix them or install them...I'm a General Contractor, I've been dealing with them for 30 years...This stuff here is heavy duty, and The guys that repair these systems are a dying breed, literally, we lost 10000 years of experience in the last 20 years... The guys that know what they're doing, like You guys, are true mechanics.
Yo man, you have been a true mentor to me and I appreciate it. I don't do AC work normally but wanted to tell you that I really appreciate you. I have a hard time keeping up with my own work and billing but watching you run a company with techs and still finding time to make these videos to help out others is truly inspiring. Thanks brother.
I have a customer with a manager I call Chicken Little. Any time there's an issue, the sky is falling. At one point, she told me everyone in her department was having issues. I then spent three hours troubleshooting the common server/network points, not finding anything (while fielding calls from the woman). I then finally called another person in the department to get more information, and found out _only one person was having problems_. Apparently, because that one woman had a bad network cable, the entire department was down. I no longer believe anything she says other than as a starting point to talk to other people to find the problem. I get chewed out by the owner, and I chew him out for listening to her at all. She's really good at the business, but she's absolutely terrible with tech. Just like this - you can't fix the problem until you actually know what the problem might be.
FYI, You need to watch out for when using 407C. Most of the time when charging or evacuating a system with 407c, it creates a static charge on the hose. We have fried a number of scales because or that. So we always have a jumper wire across the hose. For context, we build custom units. So sometimes the system may be disconnected from ground and power when we do this. Also 407C can give a false short to ground on the compressor after vacuum and charge. When a new system comes to me for test. I have to run the compressor for a few seconds or I will fail our megger test every single time. I even have to bump the compressor, if it sits for a day or two sometimes. These are brand new Copland compressors.
Why are you megging brand new compressors? How can static electricity travel across a rubber hose and fry a scale? I've been searching the internet for like 25 minutes trying to find anything related to 407c causing static electricity or affecting winding insulation and nothing is coming up...
@@MegaDysart We meg the system per customer requirement. We build custom system and on some units Megging is required during testing. I don't know why the hoses build up charge but they do. I myself have been shocked by one and fried the scale in the process. We use Yellow Jacket Plus II hoses (usually the Ball valve version). The scales that we uses are mostly CPS's. I believe the CC220 model. We use Copland compressors. I don't remember if I tested compressor by itself since I test the whole 240 VAC system at once per test procedure. If I don't bump the Compressor it takes the test value out of range. We usually use an Appion G5twin to move the Refrigerant. We started to use R407C in place of R22 15+ years ago. Since it was a direct replacement for R22 in our systems. We were already using POE oil in our systems. Engineering decided on R407C since it was closes to R22 performance wise for our products ambient operation range. At least that's what I have been told. As to why we get a static charge, we never really looked into it. I'm just passing on what we have seen. At first we though we had defective scales. That was until someone got shocked. The only thing I can think of is the hose is acting like a ballon when you rub it on your head. All I know is that if we put a jumper wire connect to both brass/copper end of the hose, no problem. Really haven't tried it with other Refrigerants. Why risk frying more scales. We mostly use R407C like 90%, some R410a, little R134a and some other Refrigerants. It's just standard procedure for us now to use a jumper wire.
I like how you do diagnostics. It seems like a methodical and logical process. (I am an industrial electrician in Australia) The only comment I have is that almost every AC, generator or any other machine I have seen from the USA very rarely has neat wiring. In many of the machines I have worked on, even when brand new, the wiring looks like a bird's nest. I like having neat control wiring but I am not over the top with it. Machines from the US, much like the AC units we saw in this video, look like they have had a school kid on work experience wiring up the machines. Rarely did I see cable numbering either. Great video though. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for your comments on 407C! The only reason I got my federal certs is that I'm an old retired oil/gas/power gen guy, and my local company put the double-rectified screws to me on a repair of one of my residential systems. They lost my R22 charge cutting out the drier, and replaced it with R407C and didn't do ANYTHING about oil. Needless to say I had a mess on my hands. The thing worked, but the evaporator was always flooded with oil and it really killed the heat transfer properties. A lot of money for poor performance. I decided after not getting any satisfaction from them that I was better off just getting certified and buying my own equipment and doing it myself. I've learned a TON of stuff from real pros like you and a handful of others. I wasn't willing to risk my dwindling supply of R22 on the system with R407C in it, (15.5 lbs), so I converted it to R458A which works fine with mineral oil. I added a TXV and the thing works better than it ever has now. The only problem I've seen with these blends is that the wide condensing spectrum (glide) can trick a fella into overcharging if he's relying on a sight glass out of the condenser as an indicator. You could be on target with your superheat and still not have a clear sight glass. There ain't any good shortcuts. I've always adopted the mantra "Do it right as you can the first time around, or you'll end up doing it at least twice!".
I been doing this trade 16 years and when I wanna learn more I watch your channel I learned so much about RTU's and R290 systems from you watching you greatly appreciated keep up the good videos
Back in 2011-12, my local supply house was starting to really push MO-99 as a replacement. We were working on a 120 ton AAON unit. It had 4 cooling stages with 8 Copeland compressors (4 twins). All four compressors had finally died in 2 of the stages. We put 4 brand new Copelands back into the unit and, with the Copeland rep's blessing, we put in MO-99 as a replacement because the customer wanted to save money on refrigerant. We get everything in, all compressors and all stages are running like a champ, and went home for the night. When we went back the next morning, the same two stages we replaced were down again and all 4 compressors were drawing LRA. We couldn't figure it out and couldn't get those compressors started again. We had our supply house and local Copeland representative come out and diagnose what happened. They checked if our installation was correct(it obviously was, I'm only a hack when I need to be lol). They analyzed the refrigerant and oil for contamination. They checked everything. Went through the entire unit with a fine tooth comb. They found that the MO-99 essentially washed the oil out of the compressors, but it wasn't carrying the oil back and all 4 of them seized up overnight. All of the oil was being trapped in the evaporator. It had to do with the way the unit was piped from the factory. It worked fine for r-22, but not for MO-99. Copeland determined that due to the sheer size of this unit, there needed to be more traps in the circuit to allow the MO-99 to bring the oil back. Copeland ended up giving us another 4 brand new compressors to install, but they wanted us to put r-22 back in the system in order to warranty them. I'm sure an oil separator and/or adding some traps along the circuit would've worked, but neither I nor Copeland trusted MO-99 in this system. Don't even get me started about using MO-99 in medium or low temp systems. It seems to work ok in smaller package rtu's (like 20 ton or less) and split systems(depending on lineset elevation and trapping). I just try to avoid using it altogether though. It's a terrible refrigerant.
We recently acquired a 9 story with 60 to 100 ton splits. Converted to MO-99 after research and acknowledgement that previous contractor was changing out several 06e’s a month though trapped all the way to first. We found two major factors and have had many less failures. One must use POE. Though supply houses will tell you it will work mineral and it will on same level installations. Mineral will not bond enough to carry in extensive lift situations. Two. The had installed EXV’s which did not have a dedicated MO99 scale and they had left them set on R22 which works if you are using the saturated scale liquid but you do not on blends with glides. Did comparisons of all available scales and 438a came with in one degree both saturated vapor and saturated liquid. On r22 it would go south of 4 degrees superheat on load up. Once scale change it had a smooth 18 degrees even when switching between load and unload. Biggest thing for compressor failure on MO99 was oil return on multilevel. Viscosity will not lift far with mineral oil.
I am an IT guy and didn't understand a word but the world of AC units is fascinating, working on electronics is so cool. I've started to repair my house appliances and feel like a god after I said FU to our throwaway society.
If anyone doesn't already know. For a Copeland scroll AE 1294 bulletin gives you information on what they state is acceptable megg test values. Chris you should try using the PI ( Polarization Index ) DAR ( Dielectric Asorbtion Ratio ) test when megging. PI uses readings at 1 and 10 minutes and uses a scale to determine the quality of insulation. DAR is a 60 second test, with readings at 30 and 60 seconds with a scale as well. Your megger i believe has that function. Just FYI for my fellow HVAC brethren
I have the Megger 420 / 2 that does the Dar / PI test. That test make's a big difference. I usually only use it on big shit like chiller's. However your Fluke is perfect for what you are doing.
@@jasonjohnsonHVAC Don't get me wrong the fluke will be 99.9 percent right on the small compressors he works on. But the end all of day is a megger that can run test. Two different stories.
I once had an old copland scroll leak in the same exact spot.. But only once in years of doing this trade. The company I work for still uses R22 but has also been using 407c for a few years. It works good on straight ACs but has problems with heat pumps sometimes. In the last year we start using Bluon TDX20 (R458A) and personally I really like it alot. Would recommend it to anyone looking for R22 replacement.
Customer is very lucky today I suspect. Everything was down, but you know the systems well enough, and the care you take to investigate everything lets you get things up and running .. well, limping... Further, even the worst problems are the least bad versions of them. Saved from tainted oil by the last whisp of pressure in the system, perhaps even a single week latter it would have not had that bit of grace.
I had found a leak on a Carlyle Comp when I started. Also i recently did a evap and dual condenser cleaning on an old ICP 5 ton pulled the top off they way you showed us in all your videos, thanks again Chris.
Nice Video. Nice to see you using 407C, as that's also what I have chosen as my replacement for R-22. It seems to work well. And the whole "Glide" thing that has everyone so scared is easy to work with once you understand it. What I'm worried about is performance, and 407C does it. It works well, and gives efficient cooling. No headaches.
taking your time calmly is solid advice for any trade. in the general maintenance world sometimes you have supervisors breathing down your neck. i always brush them off basically and work like i normally do. the simple checks you do every single time, like checking transformer voltage etc. can save a lot of time if that happens to be the problem.
Great video! I work in Facilities and always try further my knowledge by watching you all work. Really appreciate you taking through your troubleshooting. Also, love the Keep Your Daydream S2R shirt! I’ve been following KYD since the beginning. 😎
Great video thanks, very interesting, as an ex-electronics tech (mil radio, systems and computers), the wiring on those AC units looks shoddy AF... But it gets the job done.
Yep, they all come out of the factory like that 😅 fortunately when a system is installed you generally don't plan on it moving untill it's time to replace, making further cable management and shielding unnecessary
Whenever I’m on a site with many many down units, I always check the fire alarm first to make sure they aren’t all locked out because of a silenced fire alarm.
I work in an office and stumbled on your videos about a year ago. I have developed great respect for your trade after watching your videos. Keep them coming
i am at the point that i literally watch all of your videos like there a soap opera lol. every new epsiode is the same feeling as a new episode of game of thrones.
Just getting to see this video a couple months later but one thing that is important with JADE economizers is that even with a single-stage unit, you need to still use a two-stage thermostat input to the JADE. This is because when the JADE is in full economizer, if there is a call for Y2, it will turn on the Y1-out to turn on the first (or perhaps only) stage compressor to supplement the economizer (also known as "integrated economizer" operation). If it only sees a Y1 while economizing, it will never turn the compressor on, and on a mild day, it can result in undercooling the space. Always connect a 2-stage thermostat to a JADE regardless if it is a single or two-stage unit. Optionally, you can also set a "Y3 delay" on the JADE. If that Y2 call persists for more than a set number of minutes, while the economizer is operating, it will then kick on the Y2-out for second stage compressor if there is one. When it's not economizing, the Y1 and Y2 calls go through the JADE just like you would expect. I've done this on a church that has a two-stage system serving the sanctuary, and it's set up so that if it's economizing (Y1 call), and it sees a Y2 call, it will kick on the first-stage compressor, wait 15 minutes (Y3 delay), and if the Y2 call is still there, bring on the second stage compressor. It's one of those little things in the JADE manual that isn't necessarily obvious but it can save you a lot of headache and save the owner energy by not "fixing" the economizer by cranking down the mixed air setpoint to make the economizer operate less.
Thats not cheap that's SMART boy I wish there were a few more good techs around here I just started working and quit 2 companies it was every 2nd day I'm walking into a shit show do it right or do it at all I'm refreshing with this and all ur videos 💪💪💪👍☝️
Many years ago I had a restaurant in the mall. Cooling was a coil in the air handler off of the malls chilled water system. We were also on the 3 floor so with windows and the rising heat it was not that great. Being in Wisconsin we had to get the coil winterized, filed with anti freeze for the winter. So the second winter I got a new company to winterize the coil and in spring they came back and the coil was freeze damaged. The company said it was not there fault but made the tech fix it on his own time.
i live in an old building and for years it got so hot in our building i thougth our ac was just too old and thats how it is. Legit 110+ degrees in our upstairs rooms sometimes. the housing management comes by oneday to give me some paperwork and they immediately ask whats wrong with our AC. they practically forget about the paper work and ask us how long its been like this and say since i moved in. I was like "i thought thats just how it is" they call our emergency maintenance and they come out the very next day and say it was out of some shit called Freon and then fix it in 10 minutes and now its down to 70 degrees in the middle of the heat.
hey i am an hvac technician from greece, i think you made a mistake you start washing the condenser while you have the vacuum pump working. its better to have presure in the system and after you wash it
I had a call at McDonald’s just the other day, kitchen up to 80. Found the OA sensor reading all over the place so it was only economizing too. Compressor would bump on and off for half a second. Was able to bypass until I got the sensor. Kitchen ACs are greasy!
wow even 407 is facing out in western europe. when we changeout a r22 system we use 448a(i also always change the oil). its illigal to buy and use r22 in the netherlands. i really miss r22. its a really good refrigirant.
OEM approved. There are a couple of things that this could involve. 1) they want to mislead you on _which_ Original Equipment Manufacturer. It could be the manufacturer of a filter dryer. 2) They won't actually use a company name because _then they're stepping on the rights of the company_. 'You used our name without our permission!'. You _can_ use a company's name without permission, but only if you have specific evidence. Papa John's compared itself to Pizza Hut because the founder of PJ was involved in Pizza Hut, and they couldn't claim he couldn't know enough to compare. That's why you see "Compared to a leading competitor", instead of "Compared to company B!" If you contact the company, they may even tell you over the phone (or in email) what the OEM might be - but they can't do it in public. (published)
You're not a cheapskate brazing short pieces of solder together. As a Refrigeration installer/tech I do it CONSTANTLY myself after a tip from a co-worker, from when I begun my career for more than 10 years ago.
I like how 407c works on a system. I've been trying to convince my company to allow 407c conversions at least on r22 equipment with POE oil. However each and every time they say "the system isn't designed for it, that compressor will burn out in a couple months" So my question is, have you had any compressor failures shortly after converting to 407c? (not a complete compressor swap, just refrigerant swap on applicable units)
Work on a lot of Liebert 20 - 30ton splits with 06D semi's running r22, systems that have leaks we do leak check and repair, change the oil, and charge with 407c. I've been doing this for years and the compressors we put 407c in don't die after a couple of months. I have been using 458a recently because it's a lot cheaper and bluon tech support is literally the best in the industry. Also witj bluon you have to change the oil.
A Carlyle compressor walks into a bar. The barkeep says, "We don't see many Carlyle compressors in here". The Carlyle compressor responds, "And at the rate we leak refrigerant, you won't see many more."
Busy day bubby Every one bear in mind the refrigerant circuit condition as your testing motor insulation Always make sure there is pressure available before testing.
@18:30 I've been on the road too long, and can guess what hotel that is across the way. I have no idea where the restaurant, you--and it--are, however.
Another great and informative video Chris! It's refreshing that you are promoting doing the trade properly and not teaching how to "just get by". I actually have to admit that I did just that. My condenser fan motor was occasionally locking up at night and I tested my cap first which tested bad. So I just replaced that to "get by", however, 2 weeks later and I started having the same problem again... wake up in the middle of the night and it's 85 degrees and humid in the house. So I ordered a new fan motor and it was what I should have done to begin with. Because the bad bearings in the old motor ruined the new cap that I tried to get by with... (it was not overamping) So your educational videos have taught me a valuable lesson, with inflation going berserk it's best to do it right the first time. Because I would not have wanted to be changing my compressor had it been going off on thermal lock out too many times (being a 15 year old Mayag package unit). Cutting corners almost cost me more than just doing the work properly. Thank you for your wisdom and the Fieldpiece SC480. It has been a great Christmas gift from 2 years ago! Keep up the great content!
Funny that this got recommended to me just now. Spent all night in my room in the Middle East with my AC being broken, well over 100 in my room. At least this was entertaining
Hey Chris, I'm in Australia and it would be helpful if you give us a Celsius reference, maybe just a text on screen? Also I would love to have the time to spend on most jobs you have. Here it is more like, get it running, keep it running! We also have 240v single phase and 415v Three phase, different again.(maybe another little text on screen?) I've been in the industry a long time and have worked on every thing, I like your show and find I'm Still learning, Would love a reply.
I have a 4 ton residential, dual compressor, and when I get someone out to look at it, they just want me to replace the whole thing (handler and compressors). Something happened to the second compressor, and it will not kick on when the temperature differential calls for it. 2nd phase compressor seems totally dead. I wish I could find someone like you. I think a rat got fried on the relay switches.
Hello. Can you make a short video on how to test those OAT/MAT sensors checking ohms. I remembered seeing a video of how to you were checking for ohms depending on ambient temp., but i can find it anymore neither the ohms table…
The shadow from the gas leaking out is basically doing the same thing as sticking a pencil in a glass of water. The gas bends or refracts light just a little bit differently than the air around it. They're both clear, but just like a pencil seems broken where the water in a glass meets the air the light will be changed where the border is between the gas and air.
I am sure this question will never get a response but....since the compressor was out on one unit why didn't you use the OAT from that one on the bad OAT on the other one then of course get the replacements parts for the working unit.
@@HVACRVIDEOS that makes complete sense. I must have just missed that in the video. I enjoy your videos by the way and they always make me feel better that my own work ethics are strong. I got laid-off and from time to time I have to remind myself it wasn't me, it was a bad company. Thank you for reminding me I was a good employee.
I really like how all the youtube channels teaching this trade are all interconnected and all agree on the important stuff. This channel, Ty, HVAC School, that compressor guy, all these people reference each other and respect each other. So nice to see.
In other trades, this channel badmouths that channel, the other channel says this channel is giving terrible advice, and it goes on and on and on so that newcomers like myself don't know who to listen to.
Yeah we have a great community, thanks so much for watching and for the nice words
Idk how I got to an HVAC repair channel, but this was one of the most interesting videos I’ve seen on YT.
God bless the inventors of AC and god bless those that come to fix them or install them...I'm a General Contractor, I've been dealing with them for 30 years...This stuff here is heavy duty, and The guys that repair these systems are a dying breed, literally, we lost 10000 years of experience in the last 20 years... The guys that know what they're doing, like You guys, are true mechanics.
Oh geez, you're overselling it.
@@MaDrung You're underselling it!
Yo man, you have been a true mentor to me and I appreciate it. I don't do AC work normally but wanted to tell you that I really appreciate you. I have a hard time keeping up with my own work and billing but watching you run a company with techs and still finding time to make these videos to help out others is truly inspiring. Thanks brother.
I have a customer with a manager I call Chicken Little. Any time there's an issue, the sky is falling. At one point, she told me everyone in her department was having issues. I then spent three hours troubleshooting the common server/network points, not finding anything (while fielding calls from the woman). I then finally called another person in the department to get more information, and found out _only one person was having problems_. Apparently, because that one woman had a bad network cable, the entire department was down. I no longer believe anything she says other than as a starting point to talk to other people to find the problem. I get chewed out by the owner, and I chew him out for listening to her at all. She's really good at the business, but she's absolutely terrible with tech.
Just like this - you can't fix the problem until you actually know what the problem might be.
LOL. I like it. Triage against crazy people.
I have no idea what is happening in the video but it REALLY reminds me of IT troubleshooting. OSI model, check layer 1 first, then check layer 8 :)
FYI, You need to watch out for when using 407C. Most of the time when charging or evacuating a system with 407c, it creates a static charge on the hose. We have fried a number of scales because or that. So we always have a jumper wire across the hose. For context, we build custom units. So sometimes the system may be disconnected from ground and power when we do this.
Also 407C can give a false short to ground on the compressor after vacuum and charge. When a new system comes to me for test. I have to run the compressor for a few seconds or I will fail our megger test every single time. I even have to bump the compressor, if it sits for a day or two sometimes. These are brand new Copland compressors.
Hey bud that is some really interesting info... Would you mind emailing me I'd love to talk more about it!! Hvacrvideos@gmail.com
Why are you megging brand new compressors? How can static electricity travel across a rubber hose and fry a scale? I've been searching the internet for like 25 minutes trying to find anything related to 407c causing static electricity or affecting winding insulation and nothing is coming up...
@@MegaDysart We meg the system per customer requirement. We build custom system and on some units Megging is required during testing. I don't know why the hoses build up charge but they do. I myself have been shocked by one and fried the scale in the process. We use Yellow Jacket Plus II hoses (usually the Ball valve version). The scales that we uses are mostly CPS's. I believe the CC220 model. We use Copland compressors. I don't remember if I tested compressor by itself since I test the whole 240 VAC system at once per test procedure. If I don't bump the Compressor it takes the test value out of range. We usually use an Appion G5twin to move the Refrigerant. We started to use R407C in place of R22 15+ years ago. Since it was a direct replacement for R22 in our systems. We were already using POE oil in our systems. Engineering decided on R407C since it was closes to R22 performance wise for our products ambient operation range. At least that's what I have been told.
As to why we get a static charge, we never really looked into it. I'm just passing on what we have seen. At first we though we had defective scales. That was until someone got shocked. The only thing I can think of is the hose is acting like a ballon when you rub it on your head. All I know is that if we put a jumper wire connect to both brass/copper end of the hose, no problem. Really haven't tried it with other Refrigerants. Why risk frying more scales. We mostly use R407C like 90%, some R410a, little R134a and some other Refrigerants. It's just standard procedure for us now to use a jumper wire.
@@PeterParker-tb7ce that's crazy as hell. Thanks for the info bud. Never ever would've thought that would be possible.
I like how you do diagnostics. It seems like a methodical and logical process. (I am an industrial electrician in Australia) The only comment I have is that almost every AC, generator or any other machine I have seen from the USA very rarely has neat wiring. In many of the machines I have worked on, even when brand new, the wiring looks like a bird's nest. I like having neat control wiring but I am not over the top with it. Machines from the US, much like the AC units we saw in this video, look like they have had a school kid on work experience wiring up the machines. Rarely did I see cable numbering either.
Great video though. Thanks for sharing.
Maybe its a case of "is it really messy if I work on the exact same bird's nest every time?"
Thanks for your comments on 407C! The only reason I got my federal certs is that I'm an old retired oil/gas/power gen guy, and my local company put the double-rectified screws to me on a repair of one of my residential systems. They lost my R22 charge cutting out the drier, and replaced it with R407C and didn't do ANYTHING about oil. Needless to say I had a mess on my hands. The thing worked, but the evaporator was always flooded with oil and it really killed the heat transfer properties. A lot of money for poor performance.
I decided after not getting any satisfaction from them that I was better off just getting certified and buying my own equipment and doing it myself. I've learned a TON of stuff from real pros like you and a handful of others.
I wasn't willing to risk my dwindling supply of R22 on the system with R407C in it, (15.5 lbs), so I converted it to R458A which works fine with mineral oil. I added a TXV and the thing works better than it ever has now. The only problem I've seen with these blends is that the wide condensing spectrum (glide) can trick a fella into overcharging if he's relying on a sight glass out of the condenser as an indicator. You could be on target with your superheat and still not have a clear sight glass.
There ain't any good shortcuts. I've always adopted the mantra "Do it right as you can the first time around, or you'll end up doing it at least twice!".
Thats why i shoort for the mid point in blends.
Comfort cooling should be subcooling, not sight glass based for TXV - that'll result in far more accurate performance.
"third times the charm" when all else fails. lol
What's the current status of the ozone hole?
I been doing this trade 16 years and when I wanna learn more I watch your channel I learned so much about RTU's and R290 systems from you watching you greatly appreciated keep up the good videos
Super professional. What a treat watching an expert in his craft.. Super professional. What a treat watching an expert in his craft..
Back in 2011-12, my local supply house was starting to really push MO-99 as a replacement. We were working on a 120 ton AAON unit. It had 4 cooling stages with 8 Copeland compressors (4 twins). All four compressors had finally died in 2 of the stages. We put 4 brand new Copelands back into the unit and, with the Copeland rep's blessing, we put in MO-99 as a replacement because the customer wanted to save money on refrigerant. We get everything in, all compressors and all stages are running like a champ, and went home for the night. When we went back the next morning, the same two stages we replaced were down again and all 4 compressors were drawing LRA. We couldn't figure it out and couldn't get those compressors started again.
We had our supply house and local Copeland representative come out and diagnose what happened. They checked if our installation was correct(it obviously was, I'm only a hack when I need to be lol). They analyzed the refrigerant and oil for contamination. They checked everything. Went through the entire unit with a fine tooth comb. They found that the MO-99 essentially washed the oil out of the compressors, but it wasn't carrying the oil back and all 4 of them seized up overnight. All of the oil was being trapped in the evaporator. It had to do with the way the unit was piped from the factory. It worked fine for r-22, but not for MO-99. Copeland determined that due to the sheer size of this unit, there needed to be more traps in the circuit to allow the MO-99 to bring the oil back. Copeland ended up giving us another 4 brand new compressors to install, but they wanted us to put r-22 back in the system in order to warranty them. I'm sure an oil separator and/or adding some traps along the circuit would've worked, but neither I nor Copeland trusted MO-99 in this system. Don't even get me started about using MO-99 in medium or low temp systems. It seems to work ok in smaller package rtu's (like 20 ton or less) and split systems(depending on lineset elevation and trapping). I just try to avoid using it altogether though. It's a terrible refrigerant.
Thank you for sharing your real experience.
I can't stand MO99 for this reason. Ive seen it kill compressors as well
We recently acquired a 9 story with 60 to 100 ton splits. Converted to MO-99 after research and acknowledgement that previous contractor was changing out several 06e’s a month though trapped all the way to first. We found two major factors and have had many less failures. One must use POE. Though supply houses will tell you it will work mineral and it will on same level installations. Mineral will not bond enough to carry in extensive lift situations. Two. The had installed EXV’s which did not have a dedicated MO99 scale and they had left them set on R22 which works if you are using the saturated scale liquid but you do not on blends with glides. Did comparisons of all available scales and 438a came with in one degree both saturated vapor and saturated liquid. On r22 it would go south of 4 degrees superheat on load up. Once scale change it had a smooth 18 degrees even when switching between load and unload. Biggest thing for compressor failure on MO99 was oil return on multilevel. Viscosity will not lift far with mineral oil.
I am an IT guy and didn't understand a word but the world of AC units is fascinating, working on electronics is so cool. I've started to repair my house appliances and feel like a god after I said FU to our throwaway society.
If anyone doesn't already know. For a Copeland scroll AE 1294 bulletin gives you information on what they state is acceptable megg test values.
Chris you should try using the PI ( Polarization Index ) DAR ( Dielectric Asorbtion Ratio ) test when megging. PI uses readings at 1 and 10 minutes and uses a scale to determine the quality of insulation. DAR is a 60 second test, with readings at 30 and 60 seconds with a scale as well. Your megger i believe has that function. Just FYI for my fellow HVAC brethren
Thanks bud!
@@HVACRVIDEOS 🤘🤘🤘🤘
I have the Megger 420 / 2 that does the Dar / PI test. That test make's a big difference. I usually only use it on big shit like chiller's. However your Fluke is perfect for what you are doing.
@@wd8557 myself as well. Im commercial/ industrial and thats where i first heard of it. Then did some reading and have been using ever since
@@jasonjohnsonHVAC Don't get me wrong the fluke will be 99.9 percent right on the small compressors he works on. But the end all of day is a megger that can run test. Two different stories.
I once had an old copland scroll leak in the same exact spot.. But only once in years of doing this trade. The company I work for still uses R22 but has also been using 407c for a few years. It works good on straight ACs but has problems with heat pumps sometimes. In the last year we start using Bluon TDX20 (R458A) and personally I really like it alot. Would recommend it to anyone looking for R22 replacement.
As an EE it baffles me that all the boards, connectors, etc etc are basically open to the elements in all these units.
Customer is very lucky today I suspect. Everything was down, but you know the systems well enough, and the care you take to investigate everything lets you get things up and running .. well, limping... Further, even the worst problems are the least bad versions of them. Saved from tainted oil by the last whisp of pressure in the system, perhaps even a single week latter it would have not had that bit of grace.
#15 rosebud is an "all-in-one" tip. I use that thing from 1/4" to 1-1/8". Love that thing.
I use a rosebud tip for everything that doesn't require pinpoint heat.
Wanted to say thank you for the videos. They are showing me better and more efficient ways to troubleshoot and diagnose issues.
I had found a leak on a Carlyle Comp when I started. Also i recently did a evap and dual condenser cleaning on an old ICP 5 ton pulled the top off they way you showed us in all your videos, thanks again Chris.
I believe the leak on the compressor isn’t a soft plug. I believe it is a weld where the windings are held in place there should be 3 of them
Nice Video. Nice to see you using 407C, as that's also what I have chosen as my replacement for R-22. It seems to work well. And the whole "Glide" thing that has everyone so scared is easy to work with once you understand it. What I'm worried about is performance, and 407C does it. It works well, and gives efficient cooling. No headaches.
You're right about the refrigerator and s*** I agree with you 100%
Super professional. What a treat watching an expert in his craft.
taking your time calmly is solid advice for any trade. in the general maintenance world sometimes you have supervisors breathing down your neck. i always brush them off basically and work like i normally do. the simple checks you do every single time, like checking transformer voltage etc. can save a lot of time if that happens to be the problem.
Great video! I work in Facilities and always try further my knowledge by watching you all work. Really appreciate you taking through your troubleshooting.
Also, love the Keep Your Daydream S2R shirt! I’ve been following KYD since the beginning. 😎
Awesome bud yeah I love KYD I feel like I watched their kids grow up!!
Those are plug welds holding the scroll pump assembly in the can. I used to work in the facility that produced them.
I don't know how I got here, but I actually enjoyed this whole video! Keep up the great work!
Great video thanks, very interesting, as an ex-electronics tech (mil radio, systems and computers), the wiring on those AC units looks shoddy AF... But it gets the job done.
Yep, they all come out of the factory like that 😅 fortunately when a system is installed you generally don't plan on it moving untill it's time to replace, making further cable management and shielding unnecessary
Whenever I’m on a site with many many down units, I always check the fire alarm first to make sure they aren’t all locked out because of a silenced fire alarm.
I work in an office and stumbled on your videos about a year ago. I have developed great respect for your trade after watching your videos.
Keep them coming
Chris I got a chance to watch 2 guys change 2 condenser fan motors on a system right outside my hotel window.
I don’t even work on this stuff and you had me watching at 11 pm
i am at the point that i literally watch all of your videos like there a soap opera lol. every new epsiode is the same feeling as a new episode of game of thrones.
Just getting to see this video a couple months later but one thing that is important with JADE economizers is that even with a single-stage unit, you need to still use a two-stage thermostat input to the JADE. This is because when the JADE is in full economizer, if there is a call for Y2, it will turn on the Y1-out to turn on the first (or perhaps only) stage compressor to supplement the economizer (also known as "integrated economizer" operation). If it only sees a Y1 while economizing, it will never turn the compressor on, and on a mild day, it can result in undercooling the space. Always connect a 2-stage thermostat to a JADE regardless if it is a single or two-stage unit. Optionally, you can also set a "Y3 delay" on the JADE. If that Y2 call persists for more than a set number of minutes, while the economizer is operating, it will then kick on the Y2-out for second stage compressor if there is one. When it's not economizing, the Y1 and Y2 calls go through the JADE just like you would expect. I've done this on a church that has a two-stage system serving the sanctuary, and it's set up so that if it's economizing (Y1 call), and it sees a Y2 call, it will kick on the first-stage compressor, wait 15 minutes (Y3 delay), and if the Y2 call is still there, bring on the second stage compressor. It's one of those little things in the JADE manual that isn't necessarily obvious but it can save you a lot of headache and save the owner energy by not "fixing" the economizer by cranking down the mixed air setpoint to make the economizer operate less.
Yep when stuff hits the fan there is nothing better than a calm and collected methodical technician. You wont get it fixed any faster by panicking.
OMG! I Do Exacly The Same With My Solder, I Put All The Leftovers Together To make A New One And Pinch A Penny :D !
Superb repair and well narrated.
Had this video with dinner, paprika chicken breast with corn on the cob and a tomato oil/vinegar salad, tasty as hell and the video was good too.
Man I watch your videos all time. Such good content and learn so much. Appreciate the content!!
Thats not cheap that's SMART boy I wish there were a few more good techs around here I just started working and quit 2 companies it was every 2nd day I'm walking into a shit show do it right or do it at all I'm refreshing with this and all ur videos 💪💪💪👍☝️
Many years ago I had a restaurant in the mall. Cooling was a coil in the air handler off of the malls chilled water system. We were also on the 3 floor so with windows and the rising heat it was not that great. Being in Wisconsin we had to get the coil winterized, filed with anti freeze for the winter. So the second winter I got a new company to winterize the coil and in spring they came back and the coil was freeze damaged. The company said it was not there fault but made the tech fix it on his own time.
Fav new channel.
I'm glad you mentioned that about the 20 % poe oil addition to retrofitting 407c. I have not done that before but, I was thinking about it. .
14:10 - I wouldn't call that being "cheap," I would call that "being fiscally-responsible during a time of rampant and unchecked inflation."
Now this is quality. Great video may become a fan yet.
Best looking air filters I’ve ever seen, maybe a maintenance contract!?!?
Chris your #ONE GREAT DETAIL TY
Maintenance needs to change those filters! Great video man!
i live in an old building and for years it got so hot in our building i thougth our ac was just too old and thats how it is. Legit 110+ degrees in our upstairs rooms sometimes. the housing management comes by oneday to give me some paperwork and they immediately ask whats wrong with our AC. they practically forget about the paper work and ask us how long its been like this and say since i moved in. I was like "i thought thats just how it is" they call our emergency maintenance and they come out the very next day and say it was out of some shit called Freon and then fix it in 10 minutes and now its down to 70 degrees in the middle of the heat.
Great video. Please, I need to know the info for that brazing nozzle.
Dirty oil and moisture in the system can both cause the compressor to have a high ohms to ground.
Another good one Chris ... Thx for posting ...
My favorite is when you go to fix something on Friday at 5pm, but it quit cooling on Monday morning. Lol
hey i am an hvac technician from greece, i think you made a mistake you start washing the condenser while you have the vacuum pump working. its better to have presure in the system and after you wash it
I had a call at McDonald’s just the other day, kitchen up to 80. Found the OA sensor reading all over the place so it was only economizing too. Compressor would bump on and off for half a second. Was able to bypass until I got the sensor. Kitchen ACs are greasy!
I was wondering how many ACs where down before the call. 3? 4? still good 😆 don't call till 5 are down.
wow even 407 is facing out in western europe. when we changeout a r22 system we use 448a(i also always change the oil). its illigal to buy and use r22 in the netherlands.
i really miss r22. its a really good refrigirant.
My old boss used to tell me- how do you eat an elephant? What bite at a time.
thank you very informative
Great video . Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Dude I use that wand for everything. It’s the best! Thanks for telling me about it last year
The Latin name for lead is plumbum, that's why plumbers are called plumbers.
OEM approved. There are a couple of things that this could involve. 1) they want to mislead you on _which_ Original Equipment Manufacturer. It could be the manufacturer of a filter dryer. 2) They won't actually use a company name because _then they're stepping on the rights of the company_. 'You used our name without our permission!'. You _can_ use a company's name without permission, but only if you have specific evidence. Papa John's compared itself to Pizza Hut because the founder of PJ was involved in Pizza Hut, and they couldn't claim he couldn't know enough to compare. That's why you see "Compared to a leading competitor", instead of "Compared to company B!" If you contact the company, they may even tell you over the phone (or in email) what the OEM might be - but they can't do it in public. (published)
for mineral oil use r422b,the same way you did r407c.tested for years.
You're not a cheapskate brazing short pieces of solder together. As a Refrigeration installer/tech I do it CONSTANTLY myself after a tip from a co-worker, from when I begun my career for more than 10 years ago.
I like how 407c works on a system. I've been trying to convince my company to allow 407c conversions at least on r22 equipment with POE oil. However each and every time they say "the system isn't designed for it, that compressor will burn out in a couple months"
So my question is, have you had any compressor failures shortly after converting to 407c? (not a complete compressor swap, just refrigerant swap on applicable units)
Work on a lot of Liebert 20 - 30ton splits with 06D semi's running r22, systems that have leaks we do leak check and repair, change the oil, and charge with 407c. I've been doing this for years and the compressors we put 407c in don't die after a couple of months. I have been using 458a recently because it's a lot cheaper and bluon tech support is literally the best in the industry. Also witj bluon you have to change the oil.
How does 407c work I never used it I did use nu22 and doesn't work well expectedly in high Temps another awesome video
I did a compressor like this one 2 weeks ago and the terminals blew out of the compressor causing to lose the refrigerant.
EXCELLENT VIDEOS
I know this feeling. Been baking out here in PA. Really wish I had my previous unit plugged into a surge protector D:
A Carlyle compressor walks into a bar. The barkeep says, "We don't see many Carlyle compressors in here".
The Carlyle compressor responds, "And at the rate we leak refrigerant, you won't see many more."
The leaking compressor: Bet it was a soft plug. There was a batch of small condensing units at my work where the receiver soft plug would leak early.
Gotta get the oil out.
Busy day bubby
Every one bear in mind the refrigerant circuit condition as your testing motor insulation
Always make sure there is pressure available before testing.
I completely agree with what you said about the leak sealant but nobody listens lol
@18:30 I've been on the road too long, and can guess what hotel that is across the way. I have no idea where the restaurant, you--and it--are, however.
In my country if you ignore a system with a refrigerant leak you get a massive fine. Toping up a leaking system you lose your licence immediately.
Another great and informative video Chris! It's refreshing that you are promoting doing the trade properly and not teaching how to "just get by". I actually have to admit that I did just that. My condenser fan motor was occasionally locking up at night and I tested my cap first which tested bad. So I just replaced that to "get by", however, 2 weeks later and I started having the same problem again... wake up in the middle of the night and it's 85 degrees and humid in the house. So I ordered a new fan motor and it was what I should have done to begin with. Because the bad bearings in the old motor ruined the new cap that I tried to get by with... (it was not overamping) So your educational videos have taught me a valuable lesson, with inflation going berserk it's best to do it right the first time. Because I would not have wanted to be changing my compressor had it been going off on thermal lock out too many times (being a 15 year old Mayag package unit). Cutting corners almost cost me more than just doing the work properly. Thank you for your wisdom and the Fieldpiece SC480. It has been a great Christmas gift from 2 years ago! Keep up the great content!
Great job
Funny that this got recommended to me just now. Spent all night in my room in the Middle East with my AC being broken, well over 100 in my room. At least this was entertaining
Hey Chris, I'm in Australia and it would be helpful if you give us a Celsius reference, maybe just a text on screen? Also I would love to have the time to spend on most jobs you have. Here it is more like, get it running, keep it running!
We also have 240v single phase and 415v Three phase, different again.(maybe another little text on screen?)
I've been in the industry a long time and have worked on every thing, I like your show and find I'm Still learning,
Would love a reply.
Awesome video
Those need units need thorough cleaning from the coils to the filters and everything in between.
I have a 4 ton residential, dual compressor, and when I get someone out to look at it, they just want me to replace the whole thing (handler and compressors). Something happened to the second compressor, and it will not kick on when the temperature differential calls for it. 2nd phase compressor seems totally dead. I wish I could find someone like you. I think a rat got fried on the relay switches.
Sucking in that good ole humidity
I think I know which TH-camr you're talking about when you brought up the 407C conversion.
Do you ever setup a temporary umbrella/tent type of thing to give you shade while you work?
Look at those filters!!!
100Mohms is below the limit? To me that still does sound like a very high resistance.
video recommendation. tips for hot summer days and staying safe?
Great videos... why did you leave that economizer just hanging by the wire instead of securing it to the wall?
Hello. Can you make a short video on how to test those OAT/MAT sensors checking ohms. I remembered seeing a video of how to you were checking for ohms depending on ambient temp., but i can find it anymore neither the ohms table…
They had 5 AC’s turned off at the disconnect and I was like this looks like a job for Chris. It wasn’t you cuz it was near Disneyland
Hi bro from west Alabama peace and love
23v check the primary volts on the transformer. 208v on 240v tap most likely
Nah we have low incoming voltage here it was likely 200 volts so even tapped at 208 it would likely be 23
As always, you get an atta boy for doing a good YOB.
Got a little rosebud in there for ya
fun visit
The shadow from the gas leaking out is basically doing the same thing as sticking a pencil in a glass of water. The gas bends or refracts light just a little bit differently than the air around it. They're both clear, but just like a pencil seems broken where the water in a glass meets the air the light will be changed where the border is between the gas and air.
I am sure this question will never get a response but....since the compressor was out on one unit why didn't you use the OAT from that one on the bad OAT on the other one then of course get the replacements parts for the working unit.
There was no point because I disconnected the bad one and it started running, no need to swap parts and create extra work.
@@HVACRVIDEOS that makes complete sense. I must have just missed that in the video. I enjoy your videos by the way and they always make me feel better that my own work ethics are strong. I got laid-off and from time to time I have to remind myself it wasn't me, it was a bad company. Thank you for reminding me I was a good employee.
That costs double time extra. Tell them that next time.