I Wish I Knew This Sooner About Sleeping Pads!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ต.ค. 2024
- I wish I knew these things sooner about sleeping pads for backpacking. Cold nights of sleep and uncomfortable experiences would have been eliminated.
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The first thing I look at when shopping for a sleeping pad nowadays is comfort. Tbh, R value is not that hard to improve. Just layer the pad with a closed cell foam pad and one or two Mylar blankets, and I personally wouldn’t feel cold even at around freezing temperatures with a relatively low r value pad. I usually put the Mylar blanket on the bottom and then the closed cell foam pad on top of it to put a barrier between me the and the potential condensation on the Mylar tarp. And that is my “thermal” layer. I then put the main sleeping mattress on top of it to act as my “comfort” layer. I would sometimes add another Mylar blanket above the closed cell foam pad. That seems to make it even warmer. And if it’s still cold, add leaves underneath your tent. The thin Mylar blankets are cheap and weigh nothing. They are just to reflect your heat back to you. And the closed cell foam pads usually cost around 40 bucks and are pretty lightweight too. Layering can be applied to sleeping bags too. Layer a bag/quilt and another quilt, and you get a sleeping bag that works in colder wearher. But try it out first in a controlled and safe environment to make sure it’s warm enough for you before using this system on an actual trip.
A really great breakdown of things to consider with pad selection. To many people zero in on two numbers, weight and R value without considering other things. We always offer to let people lay on pads in the store and I’m always amazed how many people don’t try them out when offered. Great job.
I totally agree with you about getting a 25"-wide pad. If you are a tall side-sleeper, when you bend your knees toward your chest, your legs will be off the pad. Once I realized that and measured my knee-to-ankle length, I realized I had to go with a wider pad.
Spent a night in Zion with a pad not suitable. Was too cold to sleep all night so just got up and hiked all night, put my tent up in the morning and slept all morning in the sun. The night hike with my head torch on and reflecting off the frost crystals covering everything was pretty beatiful.
Where were you hiking? Sounds like full on type 2 fun!
@BackcountryExposure if you keep going up past the stairway to heaven and up that big cliff. Was a really nice hike. I also napped in the day (same day with no sleep) on that path back down the cliff and woke up with a bunch of deer trying to go up the cliff. I had to hug the wall while they got the courage to go past me. The last and youngest almost got spooked and fell. But she made it. Great hike. Just a one night mission.
I was in between the Exped Ultra 5R and the Big Agnes Rapide SL. Watching this video made me realize I am going with the Exped Ultra 5R. Thank you so much!
I’m with you devin outlaw 20”!!! The only application I can see with that is a 2 person tent that’s at all under 50” wide and two people that wanna combine 2 mattresses to form one bigger one
Really enjoyed your video. I’d like to add a couple of points for clarity. (Owned an industrial installation contracting company for 25+ years).
Heat transfers from either of 3 sources. Conduction, convection, radiation.
Bulk insulation, foam, feathers, etc., are rated by R value which is mechanical resistance between sources.
Mylar is reflective which manages the “radiation” component which is the E value (emissivity). Hence the need for the air gap between substrates.
By combining the 2 you increase overall insulation effectiveness.
All insulation does is buys you time. Without an additional heat source (which our bodies are heat generators with service limits) it will eventually reach stasis with ambient temperatures.
Just a little technical minutia for like minded technically infected nerds like me…..
Still think you did a great job!!!
Absolutely agree about the new-air.
As long as any part of my sleep system is labeled for backpacking, I don’t even think about weight at all. I’m not one of those people who can sleep anywhere, and good sleep is the most important thing for your performance on trail.
I’m with you. I sleep cold and so I’m usually always in a 20° bag at minimum, even in the summer. Always have a 3 or higher r-value rated pad.
I consider my sleep system to include 5 items, Shelter, Sleeping Bag, Air Mattress, Reflective Closed Cell foam pad on TOP of my air mattress with the reflective side UP, & Goosefeet 100% overfilled Down booties, to keeyi my tootsie comfy warm.
Warm Regards from Reno, Nevada
Great info. It seems there are many out there that focus on UL in lieu of comfort. I'm typically ok carrying extra weight if it means a better night's sleep. Sounds like you found the happy medium for you. Well done. Have a great day.
As I get older, comfort is much more of a priority. ha ha
@@BackcountryExposure i'm brand new to backpacking and my first purchases were the rapide SL pad and a nemo sleeping bag because I already have sleeping troubles at home and knew there was zero chance of me enjoying the backcountry without proper and comfortable rest. I wanted to give myself the best shot.
Understanding of limitations of your gear is the key! I'm not looking for a best all-rounder. it's a compromise by it it own definition. Instead I'm looking for a right gear for my conditions.
I don't want to carry absurdly heavy winter mat during summer months, but I'm not stupid enough to take light summer mat to winter camping.
Great video. I agree that the quilted pattern is generally more comfortable than the horizontal ones. However I feel there is one exception which is the Nemo Quasar. It is the most comfortable pad and I also have the Rapide. One thing that adds to the comfort is that the head of the Quasar is slightly higher than the foot. For a side sleeper like me, it conforms to my body shape really well.
Is your air mattress 20" or 25" wide?
Warm Regards from Reno, Nevada
I agree 100% on the Quasar! That pad is unbelievably comfortable. My feelings on it are the baffles sizes being wider and taller than say the XLite, and the slight curve is what’s making it comfortable. Even the Trekology pad in this video has wider baffles that are quite comfortable.
@@azclaimjumper 25.
Very informative video. I wouldn't have thought about looking at the weld points.
Everyone has different bodies and sleep preferences and hiking discomfort/pack weight tolerances. Its up to each to find that balance that’s best suited to their own liking. I’ve been mountain climbing and hiking the Cascades of Washington for 50 years. My balance has changed over that time. I currently bring a 25 or 30 inch wide pad with a high R-value. Quilt not sleeping bad. I have a zero and 20 quilt, but the pad is more important. I’m a side sleeper and 20 inch pad is simply not wide enough.
Place a cheap inflatable pad inside a reflective mylar bivy, reflective mylar requires an air gap to work, the inflatable pad become the air gap to absorb your radiant body heat.
Excellent commentary, Devin. It’s funny how much air time (har har) sleeping pads get, since they are both so important and one of the most highly engineered (thus misunderstood) items in our packs!
One more consideration when choosing pad width is the temperature range. I’ve experienced much better performance from a 20” pad the further below freezing it gets. My guess is that there is less surface area contact, both with the ground on the bottom and the air on top around the edges. So my summer pads are wider and winter pads narrower. Plus pairing with CCF is more effective on the narrower pads.
Also, just anecdotally, after experiencing the joys of a 25” pad, I’ve personally found that a 20” pad with the more comfortable baffling designs are comfortable enough for the weight tradeoff on long trips. As long as the pillow game is dialed in!
I think your thoughts on the 20" did pad are valid. If you've got your bag/quilt covering more of the pad then there's less surface area exposed to the cold air. :)
Do 25" wide pads hinder the choice of popular quilts that are on the market (ie: pad strap length)?
What kind of ground sheet are you using there? With the 4 vertical walls to keep things inside?
The UL80 is 22.4" wide
Exped downmat lite 5 lw i got it 2018 and i still love it, side sleeping with a dog in my bag, notthing comes close in r-rating and price
It's always nice to be able to carry less weight etc. but I optimize pads and sleeping bags for comfort. If you sleep poorly the rest of your days on the trip are going to suck.
Great video Devin, it’s interesting to me that the lab testing of R-Value could feel that off. I wonder what it is in their particular way of testing that gave them their results.
Yeah it’s super interesting. Justin Outdoors has been doing a lot of research around this whole concept and I know he’s got some ideas he’s going to be presenting to hypothesize why a pad performs the way it does. My experience with the zoom from now a year of use is telling me it’s not sleeping as warm as it claims. I’ve noticed the insulation film in most of the pad is not suspended, and just sits on the ground.
@@BackcountryExposure Very interesting. I look forward to seeing what Justin’s hypothesis is. For you and the zoom, I wonder if yours is defective or something
@@BackcountryExposure I, too, know about & watch Justin Outdoor videos. Well worth watching/listening to. I am of the opinion that inflatable air mattresses have to be FULLY INFLATED for them to provide the R rated insulation value in real life, not just in the labratory.
Warm Regards from Reno, Nevada
Good stuff here.
Thanks for video! Longtime subscriber....if I got the zoom ul and let's say it's got true r value of 3 and then put a closed cell foam pad underneath that has a r value of 2...
Does that give that set up a r value of 5? Or does it not really work like that....thanks! I live in north GA and it gets cold and all, but not much below 20 F overnight typically. So I figured r value around 3 or 3.5 works for.me 95% of the time, but wondering f that would get me through uncommonly cold nights
Thanks! The simple answer is yes, R-values stack. But the complicated answer has to do with all of the variables that are in play. Ambient temp, frozen ground, pad size, sleeping bag or quilt, etc, etc. When I had a Nemo Switchback under the Zoom in 17º F temps, nearly frozen ground and using a Zenbivy Light Bed, I was still cold on my back.
@@BackcountryExposure gotcha...makes since....thanks again!
@@BackcountryExposureHi, what was the Zenbivy light bed’s comfort temperature rating? And the down fill power? Could the tent improve the warmth of the mattress? Like a 4 season tent vs UL tent?
What is the thing with new Rapide SL?
All I know so far is that it's been updated with a higher r-value and is a little lighter.
Such an important statement that the pad is half the warmth another reason I don't understand people who only use a closed cell foam pad
I know a person who slept whole night really well with foam pad and summer bag (rated +15 celsius comfort) and it was +3 celsius night. Some people are just build differently. I cant do that.
Yeah I think some people are just built different. I generally sleep cold, so I need the most insulation possible for the weight.
the big gripe by quilt users is the 'laying in the back of the bag mashing it, while the quilt has nothing in the back to help either??? lol
It's the argument that why have the fabric and insulation there if you're just crushing the insulation anyway? So you pair it with a proper insulated pad.
The video being backlit by the sun, you can see through the down pad and the distribution looks really splotchy in those long baffles.
Not surprising for a loose insulation to do that. A little shake back and forth, just like on a sleeping bag and it ought to be just fine. But something to keep in mind when using.
Can't you just put a space blanket on top of it
👍
Moosejaw sold to Dick's Sporting Goods. Moosejaw no longer exists.
Yes, an acquisition did take place, and not sure what the long term plan is for Dicks, but as of right now, Moosejaw is still relevant and awesome.
MooseJaw has the best, most complete inventory of Western Mountaineering Sleeping Bags & Hilleberg tents, both high end/expensive products. And they ship your order immediately.
The ONLY inflatable air mattresses I ever owned are mummy shaped, 20" pads. They work for MEeee & the one I currently have/use which is the XTherm (R6.9) & that comes with a nearly bullet proof 70D ground side material. I have/see no reason to upgrade to the new NXT.(R7.3)
I, too, made the same mistake as you, I bought the NeoAir XLite, however, I returned it because the top surface was so slippery I kept sliding off PLUS I didn't like the 20D ground side fabric. I immediately exchanged it for my XTherm which I've been sleeping on for the past 3 years, comfy cozy + I have a Trekker Chair strapped onto my XTherm so I can sit up inside my Hilleberg Enan & have INSULATED back, butt, & leg support whenever I wish.
Additionally, my sleep system includes a reflective Closed Cell foam pad with the reflective side UP & the pad on TOP of my air mattress.
For the record, I have a Western Mountaineering Antelope (5ºF) Gore-Windstopper outer fabric, Goosefeet 100% overfilled Down Booties, Hilleberg Enan, Xtherm air mattress, & closed cell foam reflective pad, which completes my sleep system for 4-season overnighting most anywhere here in North America.
Warm Regards from Reno, Nevada.
Thanks! I slept on that XLite I bought for nearly 8 years or so. :)
@@BackcountryExposure I like your Great Basin National Park cap which is on the eastern side of Nevada & features a Glacier, one of only 2 locations in America where Bristlecone Pine have survived for thousands of years, & caves nearby + a lot of roadside art.
Warm Regards from Reno, Nevada