this concludes our four-part series, Captain Ahab: The Story of Dave Stieb. Alex and i have had tons of fun putting this all together, and we hope you’ve enjoyed it as well. there is one fairly minor but very real error to point out: in the Hall of Fame chart, Larry Walker is reflected as having received 10.2% of the BBWAA vote on his first try. in reality, he actually received 20.3% on the first ballot, and didn’t fall to 10.2% until his fourth ballot. apologies to Mr. Walker. anyway! please enjoy! - Jon
This series is one of the best you've ever done, it's truly a masterpiece. The segment about his back to back failed 9th inning no-hitters is some of the most memorable content of all-time.
Jon and Alex I’m begging y’all, we need a Dorktown history of the Rochester Seagrams/Rochester Eber Seagrams/Rochester Pros/Rochester Royals/Cincinnati Royals/Kansas City-Omaha Kings/Kansas City Kings/Sacramento Kings The world needs to know what Kings fans have experienced!
The best part of this series isn't what it said about Dave Steib, but how it completely demolished that bum Jack Morris. A true masterpiece of character assasination.
The fact that Stieb had a WAR of 56, exactly the number of wins the Jays were over .500, should be a testament to WAR as a stat as well as Dave's heroics in manifesting a winning franchise through pure will power. Get this man a plaque.
If you look at Wikipedia, it says in a bright red - * * * BASEBALL HALL OF FAME * * * In lighter red above it you see MEMBER OF CANADIAN but a quick glance from most will just see that last line. And more seriously, he may have a plaque in Pooperstown if he hadn't played past his contract buyout. I'm sure he's happier he played those years even if it reset the clock.
For those who noticed that Dave Stieb's next chance to get into the hall was December 2023 and are wondering what happened... His horrible luck continues. Since the making of this video, they changed the voting format. There are no longer ballots for 4 different baseball eras, it has been consilidated into just 2 - baseball pre 1980 and basebsll post 1980. As a result, the post 1980 ballot was loaded with players from the 90s/00s who have some of the highest WAR numbers of all time but have not been voted into the hall of fame because of their connection to using performance enhancing drugs (Barry Bonds, Roger Clemons, etc.) As long as this continues to be the format, it is going to be very very difficult to get Stieb's name on this ballot in the future because there are a lot of big names from the PED era that are not in the hall of fame.
Me before I watch this series: Dave Stieb? Never heard of him. Me after: I'm gonna name my son Dave Stieb Thank you for this amazing series. I'll be waiting for another baseball story.
I grew up a gigantic baseball fan in Southern Ontario, though I've lived in/around Seattle the past 16 years (still a die-hard Blue Jays fan though my son is understandably a Mariners fan and we go often). Stieb and Halladay are my two favourite Blue Jays.. This is the most special, meaningful content I've seen in years. I can't thank you enough.
@@murray1978 Ooof.. It's a great question and very tough. I'll take Prime Doc for two reasons: (1) his strike-out to walk ratio was unreal and considerably better than Stieb's -- though I think this is a reflection of the eras.. pitching getting better over time; (2) his prime was later in his career when he had really figured things out: a veteran advantage.
@@gteather1 Agreed. Doc's prime was ten years from 2002 to 2011. He would have won the Cy in 2005 if he didnt break his leg. He would throw 7-9 complete games a year. I miss him. DeGromm and the pitchers nowadays don't throw more than 6 innings a start. If Doc was in his prime in 2015, he probably would have won 25 games for the Jays.
@@murray1978 That's right. Stieb threw even more complete games, but Doc was really an outlier in the 2000s. Earlier this week the Padres pulled consecutive starters who had no-hitters going and modest pitch counts. I understand the strategy but it's tough!
This is a hugely good shout and I wonder if, now that his daughter has confirmed he’s seen the series, this could be arranged. Jon/Alex, shoot for the moon and put in a request. You have to. Edit: 7 votes? For fuck’s sake.
@Mark Pentler Jon has tweeted that he's spoken with Stieb over the phone. I'll be honest, I'm not sure how an interview would look om Sbnation? Have they ever done interviews before? I'd watch it, 100%, just not convinced it's their wheelhouse
Wonderfully done series. I have known Dave since we were roommates at SIU in 1977/78 . . . saw him pitch his first game in relief at a Saluki game and saw him pitch in relief against the Rays in St. Petersburg in one of his last appearances as a major leaguer. In between, saw several games in Chicago when he would come to town to face the Sox, and we would always end up after the game at a friend's place if it was a weekend afternoon game. We rarely talked baseball after those games . . . just played cards, grilled steaks, etc. The game he lost to KC in 85 didn't just keep him out of the World Series, it kept me from having tickets to those games in St. Louis, and as a lifetime Cardinals fan it would have been my dream Series. The Cy Young shuns were shameful. Nice to see this videography credit his many accomplishments.
All that just to find out he wanted free tickets... did you tell Dave about this big guy? As a soxs fan redsoxs.... I can tell you he has a wicked curveball
@@ethanniedorowski116 No free tickets for the World Series. Dave asked me how many I would want and said he would have to pay for them. I told him I would like four for the game he would be pitching (to include my wife, my Dad and my brother) and that I certainly would pay any cost for that, though I'm sure he wouldn't have taken my money anyway if it had happened. I can honestly say it would have been the only time in my lifetime as a Cardinals fan that I would have been hoping they would lose. Bro's before Pro's. I'll assume your comment was made in jest. Great Series in '67 . . . I remember it well. Of course your Sox blew out the Cards in their more recent Series rematch. Enjoy your day.
Thank you, awesome story. I’m a 22 year old white Sox fan, never heard of Stieb before this and he has one of the most interesting baseball stories of all time.
@@themaddoc7607 Pamela is my wife. Dave was my roommate 1977/78 at SIU. Pam met him in 1998 during his comeback in Dunedin before he was called up again later that year. Dave's brother Steve was the catcher on SIU's baseball team and I knew Steve before Dave. Dave transferred to SIU in 1977 and Steve had no room in his apartment, but he knew I had a roommate drop out over that summer, so that's how we ended up roommates. Pam passed away 4 yrs ago. I use her account for security and in her honor.
He’s in the Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame, and that’s all that matters. We watched his magnificent career, and it doesn’t matter if you guys down South weren’t paying attention.
Look we like Dave Stieb here, even as a Braves fan and before this documentary I always assumed he was a Hall of Famer. Why he isn’t in is a mystery to me.
Unfortunately, they changed the damn thing again literally less than a month after this series was posted on TH-cam , now it’s the “Classic Era” pre 1980 and the “Contemporary Era” post 1980, which makes it all the more difficult for Dave, seeing that is irritating to say the least.
I truly hope this is the push that gets Dave Stieb into the HOF. Thank you for putting me onto one of baseball's coolest stories- this entire series, like so many others from Secret Base, was incredible.
it's crazy to think that he was 3 outs and a few journalist brain cells away from having 3 no-hitters a perfect game and 3 cy young's and yet 7 hof votes
Thank you for creating such an amazing series about my favourite Blue Jay. On a personal level, my immigrant father who grew up playing baseball in Japan, would take me down to Exhibition Stadium to specifically watch Steib because he was one of the best pitchers in the league. Now that my father has moved on, Steib is more than a pitcher to me; he is a reminder of my father’s passion for baseball which he passed on to me. I hope I’ll be able to visit Cooperstown one day and see Dave Steib’s #37 jersey there.
We lived near Exhibition Stadium and I think I saw all his weekend home starts the first couple of years. I lost my dad recently and feel the same. May we both get to see him in Cooperstown.
As an Australian that only got into baseball in the 2001 and follows the Red Sox I had no idea who Dave was and now he's my favorite non Red Sox player .
On behalf of all Jays fans, we cannot thank you all enough for making the project come to life. It is a masterclass and our team gets a spotlight that it just isn't used to getting. When Dave Stieb finally gets his HOF nod, Secret Base deserves a huge thank you
It's not even close between Dave Steib and the rest of the players to put on a blue jays uniform. The only guy even close to Dave and your entire franchise history was Roy Halladay. I'll give this much to Roy though, he was so incredible that he managed to get his number retired from two teams. That's rare! The only other guy I can remember having his number retired from two organizations is Nolan Ryan , the only man to have his number retired from three organizations.
@@paysonfox88 Trivia Time: Hank Aaron, Greg Maddux, and Willie Mays also had their numbers retired by two teams, the Braves and the Brewers, the Braves and Cubs, and the Giants and Mets Respectively. Also Nolan Ryan isn’t alone, there’s Jackie Robinson
@@darrelleaster5381 Greg maddux may have won a cy Young award for the Cubs, but the Lion's share of his contributions were with the Atlanta braves. That's why he, and most of us, could never have guessed it. The same thing with Hank Aaron and Willie Mays. All of their contributions as players, legitimately leaned towards one team. Nolan Ryan had his contributions with three teams legitimately recognized with his number retirement. He just played long enough to make significant contributions to those teams. Jackie Robinson doesn't even count towards this, because it was not those teams decisions to retire his number, it was instead a collective rule put into place by the baseball commissioner. The team owners voted on it unanimously. A league-wide number retirement is different from teams individually deciding on a player.
That rhyme had me chuckling. Fun fact: Morris’s fangraphs WAR is about the same as Stieb’s on baseball reference, and vice versa. Don’t get me wrong, Stieb is definitely better, but I find that interesting.
Here’s how you know Jon and Alex are exceptional storytellers: Dave’s quest for self-improvement, whether in pitching skill, chasing individual goals, or just growth as a person, has been something that’s been a part of this story from the beginning, but it’s only as their telling nears its end that I fully realize why the title of his book is so good: “Tomorrow I’ll Be Perfect.” Reframed slightly, it’s not a young athlete boasting about he’s going to be the greatest one day, it’s a man saying that he is imperfect now, and that tomorrow he will be better. It is the thesis statement of the Dave Stieb that Jon and Alex present: a man perpetually trying to be better than he was before, in whatever way he can, socially or professionally or athletically. That shit’s poetry, man.
Stieb was a household name in the 80's, especially for us young Blue Jays fans. He was and still is being absolutely wronged by the BBWAA. My fingers are still crossed he finally gets his day.
The coolest part of this series is honestly the emotional development of the main character. He starts out frustrated that no one recognizes his talent, and ends happy to have had a special career. He starts certain of his greatness, and ends only asking that he be in the discussion, not even believing in himself as much as he really ought
Incidentally, I see that as a bit of a in-joke to the part in the Lonnie Smith video where Jon freaked out over coke presumably making you an other worldly player in the 80s.
Absolute legends. o7 There's a ton of people in the Hall of Fame, but there's only one person that has a documentary done by a channel that's rated for having the BEST use of adding 'more jazz'.
If i was Dave Stieb being the subject of this absolute masterpiece of a documentary would be an infinitely higher honour than entry into the Hall of Fame. Phenomenal work gentlemen.
There is just something so melancholy about the phrase, “Tomorrow I’ll be Perfect.” It’s an omission of imperfection but a dedication to excellence. Admitting that the standards and exceptions change and are forever unobtainable, but convincing oneself that no matter what happens you’ll do you best and try your hardest. Edit: Milk and Cookies is clearly a euphemism for some awesome weed.
Jon/Alex: you nailed it. The ‘92 World Series parade speech is the keynote address. This is incomplete without it, and you’re brilliant for including it. Hell, I’ll put it up there with some of Churchill’s for nailing a mood. Hey, Dave: it’s Len. The OG fans have your back, always will. But what Jon and Alex have done this spring is a wonderful bit of storytelling and wrongs righting that’ll plant seeds for an era of newfound appreciation. The richest individual story in Blue Jays history has found its narrative and its voice.
"Just another baseball" this line and the story of Dave Stieb almost broke me. He had the greatest called shot of all time. In fact I think he had the only called shot ever.
I turn 25 today, and I’m crying about a pitcher I never got to watch play. I don’t remember moving to Dorktown, but I’m a proud resident. Thank you Jon and Alex and anyone else involved for a great series.
this is genuinely the most heart-wrenched i've felt watching a documentary about a person who i didn't even know the name of going in. to jon and alex, i cannot begon to express how much dorktown has made me love and find sentiment in the game of baseball that i've loved for so long, whether it's for my all-too-familiar hometown mariners or dave stieb, an anomaly who "has no place in our world", as you might say. know that you have brought cathartic tears out of many, and brought inspiration to so many more 💚
That ball sent careening into the bullpen by Higginson at the call of Parrish after all of that being caught by Dave Stieb at the literal end of his career being a one away failed no-hitter is honestly having me question the existence of divine providence over here. Dave Stieb, "The Pitcher of the 80s". I love that. Let's see them make history right in December of this year and that could be on the plaque!
"Let faith oust fact; let fancy oust memory; I look deep down and do believe." Another heroic tale by Mr. Bois that I am sad to see end but appreciate all the more.
1:09:47 A bit of additional context; Roy Halladay passed away unexpectedly and tragically at the age of 40 due to an accident at sea in November of 2017. He was inducted to the Hall of Fame in January of 2019. Just slightly over a calendar year separated his untimely passing from his vote-in. His career stats are certainly HOF worthy, I'm not arguing otherwise. But, I feel that many of the voters were experiencing a bit of the Kurt Cobain effect when reviewing his career. Halladay never had the chance to make a retirement breaking comeback, like Stieb did. And, that tragedy may have also played a part in their vote. There are elements to Halladay's HOF election that aren't present with Stieb's. That doesn't excuse what the HOF voters are doing to Stieb. This just may help a bit with explaining the difference.
Not only that, but Halladay didn’t have any prime ending injuries so everyone got to see his career play out, and how good he would be, whereas Stieb may have had a prime year or two left when his 1991 season was ended early.
@@fortynights1513 and the opportunity for playoff/World Series heroics, another ace in the hole Morris has that Stieb does not. Morris probably doesn't make the Hall without his 10-inning masterpiece in Game 7 of the '91 Series. You know, the one that he would have taken the L on if Lonnie Smith remembered how to run.
The other difference is in the writer's own behavior. Halladay was - even in his Toronto days - widely known and talked about as one of the best pitchers in the league, with five top-5 CY finishes in addition to his two trophies. His endurance was also probably more widely celebrated, because his 7-9 complete games every year just felt so out of his time. Doc's HOF worthiness was never in doubt, and with his shoulder being as dead as it could be at age 36, he wasn't gonna come back either. Maybe his early death and what you described turned him from a sure inductee into a first-ballot inductee, yes.
@@fortynights1513 Doc tore his lat and then a few months later his rotator cuff at age 35 after winning a CY at 33 and finishing second behind Kershaw at 34 (led the NL in WAR both years with 250 and 230 IP respectively). I'd call that a prime ending injury.
I’ve been dying to see how it goes for Steib, but as a card carrying member of Bois’ Boys, I feel it’s my duty to wait for the melancholic tones of a saxophone-soundtracked video to see how this resolves.
My first exposure to Dave Stieb was playing MLB the Show 17, he was one of my best pitchers throughout the game’s cycle so I already had a soft spot for him going into this. Much like the pattern this documentary displays, he was screwed and forgotten, never being put into another MLB The Show game since then. This doc really made me appreciate him 10 fold, I’m all for helping rally the baseball community to push to the HOF spot he deserves. P.S. Jack Morris is the ultimate douche and his HOF spot should definitely be traded for Dave
Probably the most cathartic emotional climax I've ever seen in a documentary, and yet more proof on a colossal list that the BBWAA is a fradulent organization.
I've always said that the baseball writers association is a fraudulent way to elect players to the Hall of Fame. The first major problem, is that there are members of the baseball writers association that don't cover baseball primarily, they just do it very little of the time. Another is that writers are not expelled from the bbwaa if they haven't significantly covered baseball in 5 years or 10 years. Another problem with the Hall of Fame selection is that it puts too much emphasis on character and personal grudges with the writers, instead of excellence on the field. Barry bonds used steroids. So did Pudge Rodriguez of the Texas rangers and Florida Marlins. So did Adrian beltray briefly in 2004 when he put up 48 home runs, then never hit anywhere near that again when he got off the juice. Barry bonds will never be in the Hall of Fame because he was a jerk to the writers of the bbwaa. Rodriguez and Adrian beltre were loved by everybody, nice to the media, and very accommodating to the writers. They are in the Hall of Fame. The baseball Hall of Fame has a major problem with excluding the home run King, the hits King Pete Rose, and the greatest pitcher of the mid 80s to mid 90s, Roger Clemens. Roger Clemens took steroids after he had a Hall of Fame worthy resume. He has already won multiple cy Young awards, and he already had well over 200 and something wins before he took steroids.
This was a like a four-hour Rewinder episode on the time Roy Halladay just missed a no-hitter in his second career start. Masterclass as always, gentlemen!
You guys and gals are the only thing keeping me positive right now. More importantly, you're providing god-tier, subscription-quality documentaries and stories for free, for everyone, and that's fucking amazing. Thank you thank you.
Went from not knowing who Dave Stieb was to feeling personally and emotionally invested in his career and life. In a world of endless takes and constant commentary, this is one of the best examples I’ve seen of what sports media is capable of. Statistically thorough and emotionally impactful at the same time. This reminded me why I love sports in the first place. Much respect to everyone involved in making this series
But how do they mention Derek Bell and not bring up Operation Shutdown and getting arrested by the NYPD vice squad? All-in-all it was an amazing series, I'm just surprised that one of the stranger side stories got no love.
What you make here is art. Art that could create a difference in the hall of fame of baseball itself. Scratch that. WILL make a difference. Calling it now. Welcome early Hall of Fame inductee Dave Stieb.
As someone who has been a Jays fan my whole life, I’ve only briefly heard about Dave Stieb. Whether it’s from tv broadcasts, his name being on the level of excellence, or having a few of his baseball cards. Unfortunately I was unable to experience the initial rise to glory of the franchise. This does not change the fact I was transported on an emotional journey, truly witnessing something special for the first time, becoming invested with this amazing series
Thank you from every Blue Jays fan - a team whose home market literally touches three oceans. Our boys never get their due from America. It's so great to see such a massive and wonderful deep dive focused not just on Canada's team (until we get the Expos back), but on Dave Stieb. No Blue Jay is more deserving of this dedicated documentary, and tying it to the great Roy Halladay was a perfect chef's kiss.
The arm should have been cloned. Or put in the Smithsonian. Twice - 20 years apart - he did something astronomically unlikely, and I’m not even sure which one’s more amazing. Twenty years old, an outfielder who’s never thrown a ball in anger. Transitions to pitching…and he’s IN THE MLB ALL-STAR GAME (!!) twenty-odd months later. Forty years old, retired five years, heads to camp as a guest instructor. Throws a little BP…and he’s pitching for an 88-win team in the impossible AL East three-and-a-half months later. Who even does that? DAVE STIEB DOES THAT!
I said it on the first one. "I can't believe I watched 45 minutes about a player I never heard of in a sport I actively dislike and I can't believe I'll watch three other 45 minute episodes. Not only will I do that, I'll watch nearly 4 hours of the stuff in the end. And I'll be moved to near tears twice. God Bless you Dave Stieb. Now, and presumably forever, my favourite baseball player.
I live near Toronto. I'm about as casual a Blue Jays fan as you'll get. I've heard the name Dave Stieb a few times, but never knew anything about him. Thank you for this series. Thank you for telling me the amazing story of Dave Stieb's career. I will hold this story forever in my heart.
You have to have a podcast episode or an interview with Dave stieb. He likes the work you guys did. I would love to hear his thoughts. On the series and his appreciation for the series. Would be amazing. And finally him to be inducted in the hall of fame
This series makes me want a Blue Jays Stieb jersey. I love sports and I am glad that you introduce us into different people a new sports perspectives. Thank Jon and Alex
@@jamessutter6700 I think it would be interesting to look at the resale price of Dave Stieb merchandise and see if it's been impacted by this documentary coming out.
@@northstarjakobs it HAS TO have. As a matter of fact I have been watching it for weeks. I also got an 18 lot of his cards for 1.00 a month and a half ago. All of those card suddenly alone are 1.50-3.00 lol. But the autographs have gone from about 10-15 bucks to 25-50 bucks. In a month and a half. So I've been watching it since the first video came out. But this last one coming out seems to have done the deal. And people are just aware of him now. I don't really expect anything, I'm a collector/investor of baseball cards. I'll always have him. And in a way I care even more for them now than a lot of my PC. LOL.
Jon and Alex's storytelling abilities are remarkable. 1:03:17 made me burst into laughter that lasted for at least a minute; and the appearance of Roy's name at 1:13:39 hit me like a tonne of bricks. Can't wait to see what stories you guys tackle with Dorktown next. There's some NHL and soccer teams and players I can think of that would perfectly suit a format like this.
It's been 24 years, and today I learned I was in attendance for Stieb's home return game in '98 against the Mets (my Mom and I always went to TO for the Canada Day series) This series has been a joy to watch for a long time Jays fan.
This is, by far, the greatest documentary series about a sport-related theme that I have ever seen. It was, frankly, incredible. Thank you, from the bottom of my heart. Let's do the Oilers next! #99 forever!
Just amazing Jon and Alex. I went from having no idea who Dave Stieb to being absolutely crushed by his fate at the hands of the BBWAA. Stieb belongs in the HOF.
As a Brit who has never even watched an inning of Baseball in is life, I thoroughly enjoyed this series, just like the Seattle series you did. It’s not gonna make me start watching baseball, but I will look forward to your next deep dive
The coolest baseball story ever told...and what a way to tell it! I remember 1998 well: 1. Watching Stieb make a start for Syracuse at Buffalo in his comeback bid on the day of my Ph.D. proposal defense. 2. Listening to Stieb's 1998 debut against Baltimore and listening to him battle through a challenging but scoreless inning. 3. Attending Stieb's start at SkyDome in August. There were tears when he qualified for the win after pitching five innings...I'm not crying, you're crying! Thank you, Dave Stieb, from a Blue Jays fan since day-one of the franchise!
There goes those Secret Base boys again, have me tearing up in my living room over a team I never rooted for, sobbing over a player that played for one of my team's bitter rivals, and now about to find how I get a Dave Stieb BJs jersey and contact info for the HoF Era Committee. You guys are second to none.
I knew nothing about Dave Steib going into this(Born in early 90's a Dodger fan). Watched this with my Dad and its always cool seeing all the current managers/coaches who used to play baseball and some of their stats. What a crazy journey it was following Stieb and 80-90's Blue Jays, got to say he has to be considered for the HoF after seeing his career presented by you guys.
Thanks for the detail and work that went into this. Dave Stieb is one of the most underappreciated pitchers of his time and hopefully this series explains to people that aren't Blue Jays fans as to why he is known as one of the best that never truly got his due.
The music choices are always so good in these videos. It doesn't yet said enough, but yeah they're a huge huge part of how emotionally powerful they always are. The music when Stieb retires is just so sad. Whoever picks the music is a genius.
The internet's Jon Bois and his young protégé Alex Rubenstein continue to put out the greatest sports content being produced today. Stieb is more than deserving of the Hall, and you guys are more than deserving of an award for the quality of your work. Time to guy buy a Dave Stieb jersey.
A few weeks ago I was watching the Mariners game on MLB TV and Dave Simms and Mike Blowers were talking about Dave Stieb and how he had the best slider they had ever seen… I just remember thinking “this is the crossover episode I didn’t know I needed”
At the end of this I wonder what Steib's white whale truly was. Was it the no-hitter? Was it the World Series ring? Was it simply being able to finally enjoy baseball in that final year? Is it his quest for the HoF? Maybe it's all of these things. Maybe Captain Ahab always needs a white whale, when he conquers one he must find another, because he has nothing without one.
Strangely, I think the white whale was himself. I feel like he was constantly changing himself to do what needed to be done, and then, after coming out of retirement, being exactly who and what he'd been for so long, a world-class pitcher, was what was needed. As a die-hard Reds fan, I will go to my grave saying that Pete Rose needs to be in the HoF. After this series, I will say that even more for Stieb.
I think his White Whale is on a far more basic level. I think it was recognition. All of those things he was chasing were in search of recognition of exactly who he was and what he could do for his team and the sport.
@@therocknrollmillennial535 As a die-hard Jays fan who grew up watching Dave Stieb, Pete Rose needs to be in the HOF. It's bullshit he's not. May we see them both in.
@@finamenon He did get recognition from Jays fans. We knew who he was and loved him for it. (It's part of being a Jays fan, being ignored by the rest of the baseball world until we pound the crap out of everyone.) His peers recognized his greatness. Just that goddamn press.
If anything, it seems like his white whale was _the concept of catching_ a white whale, if that makes sense. It didn't matter what it was, he just needed to see it through. It was only once he no longer had one that he seemed to find some kind of peace.
Imagine if Steib had an inch of luck throughout his playing career, he coulda had one of the brightest resumes of anyone to play the game. He could have potentially had 3 no-hitters, 3 cy young's, a perfect game, and 2 world series rings. He could've been considered one of the greatest to ever step on a mound, but if if's and but's were candy and nuts, then we'd all have a merry Christmas. Even with his atrocious luck, he still managed to assemble a phenomenal career and became one of the best pitchers of his era, which is something I don't know if anyone other than him could have done. I'd argue he's one of the most important people to ever play for the Jays, just one of the million little butterfly wing flaps that brought to them to the mountain top and showed everyone that Canada can win ball games just like all the hallowed American institutions can. Even if he never makes it too the HOF, the story of the Jays, hell maybe even the story of baseball, cannot be told without him Masterful work on the part of you, Alex, and everyone else who worked on it. This is cinema right here RIP Roy Halladay, gone way too damn soon
Who ever thought that a bunch of charts and numbers could bring a person to tears. Incredible work as always Secret Base. Hopefully, Dave gets the recognition he so clearly deserves.
This was absolutely a masterpiece. I was a kid at the end of Stieb's first tour with the Jays. Just getting into baseball and the Blue Jays were immediately my favourite team (Expos second). My favourite player was Kelly Gruber, soon to be followed by John Olerud. I knew of Steib of course...but by this time he was going through what he was going through as depicted in this part. I didn't really know the rest of his history until this magnificent documentary. Just an outstanding job.
I grew up in Toronto in the 80s and 90s and baseball was the only sport I ever really loved. Thank you so much for giving Dave Stieb the respect and attention he always deserved.
Jim Bouton may not have been one of the greatest pitchers in Pilots history, but he is the most noteworthy, most groundbreaking, and most significant figure in their all-too-brief history!
Dave if you're reading this, you're the greatest Blue Jay of all time and if this video series helps get you into Cooperstown I'll be so happy. Jon and Alex, if you're reading this thank you for making the best sports content on youtube and making videos like this one and the mariners one and the beautiful pain of being a baseball fan.
I'm from Australia. Baseball isn't a mainstream sport here, and you'd struggle to find a league outside of a major city. After your videos on the Mariners and Dave, I've signed up to play for the first time. Please keep these amazing stories coming.
The last 5 minutes of this show the magic of sports perfectly and they also show why I love this channel and especially dorktown so much its those incredibly unrealistic scenarios that come to pass seemingly every other week with most of us never even realizing that they happened.
zoomer here, late 00s and early 10s phillies brought me back to my childhood. got chills when you showed halladay's no hitters. the whole video to that point had me emotional so that was definitely a factor. amazing stuff as always
Roy Halladay was the retread of Dave. He was literally the exact same player with the exact same kind of endurance, just with more strikeouts. Roy Halladay is still the last man to throw 260 plus innings in the major leagues in one season. That was almost 20 years ago now. I think he wound up with 266 or something in 36 starts. 36 starts is something we haven't seen since then either.
Thank you so much for this series! I have since gone through all my childhood binders of baseball cards, taken out all the Stieb cards (including a couple that are apparently valuable) and organized them in their own pages of my “Book of Bobs” which is a binder with every single Bob in the MLB. I put in a divider so that he has his own section: Captain Ahab. His page is right behind the page of Bob Gibson cards.
Absolutely outstanding work. One more interesting tidbit: September 24, 1988 - the Julio Franco game - was also the same day Ben Johnson won, then lost, the Gold medal in the 100m at the Seoul Olympics. Tough day for Canadian sports fans.
Stieb was a bit before my time, so before this series I only really knew of him as "that guy who kept almost throwing no-hitters". He's now one of my all-time favorite players and I fully support his Hall of Fame candidacy. Thank you, Jon and Alex, for shining a light on this man's incredible journey and accomplishments!
It's crazy to me that despite being a pretty big sports fan and almost 40, I never heard of Dave Steib until this series. I guess you guys covered why that is though...
This was the time that I was moved to tears by a no-hitter thrown 30 years ago by a player I'd never heard of. I've always admired the storytelling on this channel, but this documentary has taken it to a whole new level. There is nowhere I will not follow you. And I can't wait to see where we go next.
Just Beautiful! Thank you for letting a modern era blue jay’s fan learn more about this Blue Jays legend! When I was at the game a few days ago I finally could appreciate Dave Steibs name on the Level of Excellence.
I've probably watched this 6 or 7 times now, it's just so beautiful to watch a person grew and learn and change. and after all the struggle and heartbreak, achieve their goal. It makes me cry every time. Then the fact he came back for just a little more, like Moonlight Graham in Field of Dreams, just makes me smile and remember that all these players who we love and hate and cheer and boo are just the same kinds of people as we are. It's really just beautiful.
I knew I picked Steib and the Jays on RBI baseball for a reason. So good was he, so under appreciated, underrated, and a damn important spoke in the crushing wheel that was the early 90's Blue Jays. Great job. Keep it up
I grew up in southwestern Ontario, a rabid Tigers fan in the '80s. I **hated** the Jays. On Friday, September 25, 1998, I was living in Toronto and was at the SkyDome to watch my Tigers beat the Jays, 7-5. I was in the 100 level behind home plate. Dave Stieb came on to get the last out of the eighth inning. Despite hating that team so ferociously as a kid, and Stieb being one of my main nemeses, I stood and applauded with the crowd when he jogged in from the bullpen. My goodness, this was so well done. May Stieb and my man Lou Whitaker be inducted together in a few years.
its really hard to describe what this meant to myself and jays fans across canada. sharing bits and pieces of it with my dad, who saw through all of this up close. its a weird form of nostalgia, because i was not here for any of it, but still feel a sense of attachment. can't wait for whatever comes next from you two
Incredible storytelling. Thanks for doing what you do, and I hope you keep doing it. S+ tier entertainment. On two separate occasions this had my (barely interested in baseball) gf literally crying, no, SOBBING 😭 like a lost child haha. Amazing stuff as always. Bless 🙏🏽
When he gets to the Hall, I hope his plaque says HERE'S SOME DAMN CHARTS. I also fervently believe you two and Jomboy and Bailey and others will be there, too. If baseball still exists in 20 years, then the flame was kept alive by you guys and not any of the clownfucks running the show now.
Although I would love to see him in the Hall, I don't think he will get in. The criteria used to select players are quite inflexible. Sorry to get off topic a little but I think It's high time that the Toronto Blue Jays get off their high horses and scrap the ridiculous policy of not retiring any player's number unless he's in the Hall. It seems to imply they can't tell who are the greatest Blue Jays and needed the Hall to validate their choices. Stieb and the late Tony Fernandez are long overdue to have their numbers retired by the Jays, but I doubt that will happen
I had the opportunity to go to a Blue Jays game in Toronto this year. I was so happy to see Dave's name on the wall when I got to my seat. Thank you Secret Base
this concludes our four-part series, Captain Ahab: The Story of Dave Stieb. Alex and i have had tons of fun putting this all together, and we hope you’ve enjoyed it as well. there is one fairly minor but very real error to point out: in the Hall of Fame chart, Larry Walker is reflected as having received 10.2% of the BBWAA vote on his first try. in reality, he actually received 20.3% on the first ballot, and didn’t fall to 10.2% until his fourth ballot. apologies to Mr. Walker. anyway! please enjoy! - Jon
You two are legends.
Very cool!
This series is one of the best you've ever done, it's truly a masterpiece. The segment about his back to back failed 9th inning no-hitters is some of the most memorable content of all-time.
dang I hope Larry Walker gets in
Jon and Alex I’m begging y’all, we need a Dorktown history of the Rochester Seagrams/Rochester Eber Seagrams/Rochester Pros/Rochester Royals/Cincinnati Royals/Kansas City-Omaha Kings/Kansas City Kings/Sacramento Kings
The world needs to know what Kings fans have experienced!
I am now a Mariners fan, a falcons fan, a Dave stieb fan, and I'm naming my son Bob and I will force him to play a sport at the professional level.
Make sure it's professional poker.
hahaha me
Same
maybe feed him breakfast every morning too
Just make sure he does a full body workout every other day for 5 times a week
Absolute masterpiece. Now let's get #37 to Cooperstown.
The greatest crossover in history, pat is a bois fan. Can we get a “what makes this player stink” video with you and Jon
never a better time for a little stinkers episode on the baseball hall of fame
speaking of #37
why is Teoscar Hernandez allowed to wear it?
I think it should be retired with Halladay's 32 and Alomar's 12
PAT?
@@brettveldboom2296 Or Jon using numbers to explain why Beato sucks. Beato!
The best part of this series isn't what it said about Dave Steib, but how it completely demolished that bum Jack Morris. A true masterpiece of character assasination.
To be far, Morris demolished himself. They just documented it.
@Fries Yeah, he was a great pitcher, but a ripe jerkass
Which one threw a shout out in game seven of the World Series?
Did you watch the rest of this series?
The fact that Stieb had a WAR of 56, exactly the number of wins the Jays were over .500, should be a testament to WAR as a stat as well as Dave's heroics in manifesting a winning franchise through pure will power. Get this man a plaque.
43.8 on fangraphs. Pitcher WAR is so iffy though and not taking anything away from Dave but the number 56 is coincidental I think
@@johnjohnsonjohnCoincidentally enough Stieb on Fangraphs is roughly where Jack Morris is on baseball reference.
If you look at Wikipedia, it says in a bright red - * * * BASEBALL HALL OF FAME * * *
In lighter red above it you see MEMBER OF CANADIAN but a quick glance from most will just see that last line.
And more seriously, he may have a plaque in Pooperstown if he hadn't played past his contract buyout. I'm sure he's happier he played those years even if it reset the clock.
Honestly, at a certain point Alex and Jon should be considered for journalism awards with this level of creativity, story telling and presentation.
I'm pretty sure the Mariners series did win some kind of documentary award!
probably won't even be considered for the list. It's really poetic
Jon Bois is the greatest journalist of our time, if not all time
@@lopenash ok pump the brakes
@@dertfert745 I guess you could say those awards would be their white whale🤷♂️
For those who noticed that Dave Stieb's next chance to get into the hall was December 2023 and are wondering what happened...
His horrible luck continues. Since the making of this video, they changed the voting format. There are no longer ballots for 4 different baseball eras, it has been consilidated into just 2 - baseball pre 1980 and basebsll post 1980.
As a result, the post 1980 ballot was loaded with players from the 90s/00s who have some of the highest WAR numbers of all time but have not been voted into the hall of fame because of their connection to using performance enhancing drugs (Barry Bonds, Roger Clemons, etc.)
As long as this continues to be the format, it is going to be very very difficult to get Stieb's name on this ballot in the future because there are a lot of big names from the PED era that are not in the hall of fame.
No justice for my boy 😡
Should it be four eras in your opinion?
and they put Jack Morris on the committee..
As a jays fan, knowing that Morris was gonna be a Jay this whole time made the Morris steib rivalry so much funnier
At least they didn't rub it in by pointing out Morris was the first Jay to win 20 games, worst of all he did it with less quality starts then wins
@@mcgarnagizzle He also never won cy young award either.
@@mcgarnagizzle He also pitched with a much better team behind him
I had completely forgotten.
Wasn't Morris the guy who did some kind of racist accent/impression when he was talking about Ohtani last season?
"One of the greatest pitchers in the entire history of the Seattle Pilots"
Fantastic callback. I'm in awe.
It took me until reading this comment to realize what that meant. Thank you.
The extended Dorktown universe
The extended Dorktown universe
I’m pretty sure I genuinely laughed out loud the first time I heard that. It was such a great callback.
Me before I watch this series: Dave Stieb? Never heard of him.
Me after: I'm gonna name my son Dave Stieb
Thank you for this amazing series. I'll be waiting for another baseball story.
nah you have to name him bob dave stieb
You literally just explained how you’re a sheep
I’ve named players in sports games Bob. Now I have a last name.
my next son is Dave Dorktown Stieb Sabini
It has to be Bob Steib
I grew up a gigantic baseball fan in Southern Ontario, though I've lived in/around Seattle the past 16 years (still a die-hard Blue Jays fan though my son is understandably a Mariners fan and we go often). Stieb and Halladay are my two favourite Blue Jays.. This is the most special, meaningful content I've seen in years. I can't thank you enough.
Who do you take the mound for game seven: Prime Doc or Prime Stieb?
@@murray1978 Whew. Steib but man that's close
@@murray1978 Ooof.. It's a great question and very tough. I'll take Prime Doc for two reasons: (1) his strike-out to walk ratio was unreal and considerably better than Stieb's -- though I think this is a reflection of the eras.. pitching getting better over time; (2) his prime was later in his career when he had really figured things out: a veteran advantage.
@@gteather1 Agreed. Doc's prime was ten years from 2002 to 2011. He would have won the Cy in 2005 if he didnt break his leg. He would throw 7-9 complete games a year. I miss him. DeGromm and the pitchers nowadays don't throw more than 6 innings a start. If Doc was in his prime in 2015, he probably would have won 25 games for the Jays.
@@murray1978 That's right. Stieb threw even more complete games, but Doc was really an outlier in the 2000s. Earlier this week the Padres pulled consecutive starters who had no-hitters going and modest pitch counts. I understand the strategy but it's tough!
A part 5 interview with Stieb would be legendary
This is a hugely good shout and I wonder if, now that his daughter has confirmed he’s seen the series, this could be arranged.
Jon/Alex, shoot for the moon and put in a request. You have to.
Edit: 7 votes? For fuck’s sake.
Yes, this
I think they wanted to do the whole thing without his input in order to emphasize his impact on the game
@Mark Pentler Jon has tweeted that he's spoken with Stieb over the phone.
I'll be honest, I'm not sure how an interview would look om Sbnation? Have they ever done interviews before? I'd watch it, 100%, just not convinced it's their wheelhouse
@@Innuya yeah they’ve never done an interview with athletes before. Would be an interesting thing seeing Stieb’s opinion on it.
Wonderfully done series. I have known Dave since we were roommates at SIU in 1977/78 . . . saw him pitch his first game in relief at a Saluki game and saw him pitch in relief against the Rays in St. Petersburg in one of his last appearances as a major leaguer. In between, saw several games in Chicago when he would come to town to face the Sox, and we would always end up after the game at a friend's place if it was a weekend afternoon game. We rarely talked baseball after those games . . . just played cards, grilled steaks, etc. The game he lost to KC in 85 didn't just keep him out of the World Series, it kept me from having tickets to those games in St. Louis, and as a lifetime Cardinals fan it would have been my dream Series. The Cy Young shuns were shameful. Nice to see this videography credit his many accomplishments.
All that just to find out he wanted free tickets... did you tell Dave about this big guy?
As a soxs fan redsoxs.... I can tell you he has a wicked curveball
@@ethanniedorowski116 No free tickets for the World Series. Dave asked me how many I would want and said he would have to pay for them. I told him I would like four for the game he would be pitching (to include my wife, my Dad and my brother) and that I certainly would pay any cost for that, though I'm sure he wouldn't have taken my money anyway if it had happened. I can honestly say it would have been the only time in my lifetime as a Cardinals fan that I would have been hoping they would lose. Bro's before Pro's.
I'll assume your comment was made in jest. Great Series in '67 . . . I remember it well. Of course your Sox blew out the Cards in their more recent Series rematch. Enjoy your day.
Thank you, awesome story. I’m a 22 year old white Sox fan, never heard of Stieb before this and he has one of the most interesting baseball stories of all time.
Wow were you really his roommate? Why's your name Pamela? Does Dave know about this video?
@@themaddoc7607 Pamela is my wife. Dave was my roommate 1977/78 at SIU. Pam met him in 1998 during his comeback in Dunedin before he was called up again later that year. Dave's brother Steve was the catcher on SIU's baseball team and I knew Steve before Dave. Dave transferred to SIU in 1977 and Steve had no room in his apartment, but he knew I had a roommate drop out over that summer, so that's how we ended up roommates. Pam passed away 4 yrs ago. I use her account for security and in her honor.
He’s in the Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame, and that’s all that matters. We watched his magnificent career, and it doesn’t matter if you guys down South weren’t paying attention.
Look we like Dave Stieb here, even as a Braves fan and before this documentary I always assumed he was a Hall of Famer. Why he isn’t in is a mystery to me.
Kind of an eye roller
This series is probably the nicest thing ever written about Dave steib.
I hope he watches and enjoys this.
According to his daughter on Twitter he has been watching, Which is awesome to know.
@@Queue26 That's awesome
@@Queue26 could you point out the Twitter handle
@@colinmoskaluk7812 ash_stieb
@@colinmoskaluk7812 his kid commented on Jon Bois' Twitter so check there
Dave’s up for the Modern Baseball committee in December this year. Let’s make some noise to get this guy some recognition!
i think they voted on eight ppl to be on the ballot in december 2022 and they’ll be inducted in 2023. stieb is not listed on the ballot :(
Dave got something better, and far more eternal. He got his very own Dorktown Saga✨
Unfortunately, they changed the damn thing again literally less than a month after this series was posted on TH-cam , now it’s the “Classic Era” pre 1980 and the “Contemporary Era” post 1980, which makes it all the more difficult for Dave, seeing that is irritating to say the least.
@@ericfranklin1802Someone in the BBWAA hates Dave Stieb
@@mikemo1993 Best tribute...ever!
I truly hope this is the push that gets Dave Stieb into the HOF. Thank you for putting me onto one of baseball's coolest stories- this entire series, like so many others from Secret Base, was incredible.
If Foolish Baseball could help get Larry Walker into the Hall, then Jon can certainly help get Stieb in
He literally won’t be considered again, did you even watch? Lol
@@yuhyuhtheindigo7085 fell off the regular ballot, missed the 2018 modern era ballot, is still eligible for the 2023 modern era ballot.
We need to create a rally behind Stieb to get him in
@@yuhyuhtheindigo7085 lol did you?
it's crazy to think that he was 3 outs and a few journalist brain cells away from having 3 no-hitters a perfect game and 3 cy young's and yet 7 hof votes
It’s absolutely mind blowing
If he'd gotten those NH's and Cy's he would've been unanimously voted in
@@alexgrissom3513 If he'd done it in NY he would have definitely gotten more votes, in any case.
I mean if his counter part Saberhagen couldn't get in (with the hardware) no chance thag stieb will
@@harper-leightonscott4566 Saberhagen was a filthy SOB, too.
If Jacob deGrom ever gets in, Saberhagen should be asking questions.
Thank you for creating such an amazing series about my favourite Blue Jay. On a personal level, my immigrant father who grew up playing baseball in Japan, would take me down to Exhibition Stadium to specifically watch Steib because he was one of the best pitchers in the league. Now that my father has moved on, Steib is more than a pitcher to me; he is a reminder of my father’s passion for baseball which he passed on to me. I hope I’ll be able to visit Cooperstown one day and see Dave Steib’s #37 jersey there.
We lived near Exhibition Stadium and I think I saw all his weekend home starts the first couple of years. I lost my dad recently and feel the same. May we both get to see him in Cooperstown.
As an Australian that only got into baseball in the 2001 and follows the Red Sox I had no idea who Dave was and now he's my favorite non Red Sox player .
@@drbosommd he was fckn wicked awesome !!
@@fingersm 👍
Game recognize game :)
Him catching that home run is just about the most unbelievable thing I’ve ever seen.
On behalf of all Jays fans, we cannot thank you all enough for making the project come to life. It is a masterclass and our team gets a spotlight that it just isn't used to getting.
When Dave Stieb finally gets his HOF nod, Secret Base deserves a huge thank you
HERE HERE!
It's not even close between Dave Steib and the rest of the players to put on a blue jays uniform. The only guy even close to Dave and your entire franchise history was Roy Halladay.
I'll give this much to Roy though, he was so incredible that he managed to get his number retired from two teams. That's rare! The only other guy I can remember having his number retired from two organizations is Nolan Ryan , the only man to have his number retired from three organizations.
@@paysonfox88 Trivia Time: Hank Aaron, Greg Maddux, and Willie Mays also had their numbers retired by two teams, the Braves and the Brewers, the Braves and Cubs, and the Giants and Mets Respectively. Also Nolan Ryan isn’t alone, there’s Jackie Robinson
@@darrelleaster5381 Greg maddux may have won a cy Young award for the Cubs, but the Lion's share of his contributions were with the Atlanta braves. That's why he, and most of us, could never have guessed it.
The same thing with Hank Aaron and Willie Mays. All of their contributions as players, legitimately leaned towards one team.
Nolan Ryan had his contributions with three teams legitimately recognized with his number retirement. He just played long enough to make significant contributions to those teams.
Jackie Robinson doesn't even count towards this, because it was not those teams decisions to retire his number, it was instead a collective rule put into place by the baseball commissioner. The team owners voted on it unanimously. A league-wide number retirement is different from teams individually deciding on a player.
Jack Morris’ speech after winning the ‘92 World Series might be the funniest thing I’ve ever seen. Immaculate.
And he sucked in that series to boot. What a doofus.
It’s the bringing your ex up on a date of victory speeches
That look jaun gave was on point
That rhyme had me chuckling.
Fun fact: Morris’s fangraphs WAR is about the same as Stieb’s on baseball reference, and vice versa.
Don’t get me wrong, Stieb is definitely better, but I find that interesting.
@@fortynights1513 they both deserve to be in Cooperstown, it’s just that our hero isn’t.
Can’t wait til y’all have me weeping over a Jai Alai player with a 3-sentence Wikipedia page or something in your next project. Fantastic, as always
Jon and Alex find a autobiography about Bob Cyclone and produce a 7 part series about it
They have a Rickey Henderson tangential miniseries about the cop who lost his pants
You should look up the guy I suggested (John Trollope)!
@@reillymcwriting In The Eye Of The Hurricane: The True Story Of Bob Cyclone.
Here’s how you know Jon and Alex are exceptional storytellers: Dave’s quest for self-improvement, whether in pitching skill, chasing individual goals, or just growth as a person, has been something that’s been a part of this story from the beginning, but it’s only as their telling nears its end that I fully realize why the title of his book is so good: “Tomorrow I’ll Be Perfect.” Reframed slightly, it’s not a young athlete boasting about he’s going to be the greatest one day, it’s a man saying that he is imperfect now, and that tomorrow he will be better. It is the thesis statement of the Dave Stieb that Jon and Alex present: a man perpetually trying to be better than he was before, in whatever way he can, socially or professionally or athletically.
That shit’s poetry, man.
Stieb was a household name in the 80's, especially for us young Blue Jays fans. He was and still is being absolutely wronged by the BBWAA. My fingers are still crossed he finally gets his day.
The coolest part of this series is honestly the emotional development of the main character. He starts out frustrated that no one recognizes his talent, and ends happy to have had a special career. He starts certain of his greatness, and ends only asking that he be in the discussion, not even believing in himself as much as he really ought
I genuinely laughed at the blip of why Jon thinks the writers of the 80s didn’t give Steib the Cy Young. I said it out loud, “Drugs or corruption.”
I was thinking "probably coke" right before it flashed lol
Ha. I said cocaine out loud to my computer screen right before it popped up. Even better that it was from the Strib since I'm from MN.
Incidentally, I see that as a bit of a in-joke to the part in the Lonnie Smith video where Jon freaked out over coke presumably making you an other worldly player in the 80s.
Absolute legends. o7
There's a ton of people in the Hall of Fame, but there's only one person that has a documentary done by a channel that's rated for having the BEST use of adding 'more jazz'.
If i was Dave Stieb being the subject of this absolute masterpiece of a documentary would be an infinitely higher honour than entry into the Hall of Fame. Phenomenal work gentlemen.
There is just something so melancholy about the phrase, “Tomorrow I’ll be Perfect.”
It’s an omission of imperfection but a dedication to excellence. Admitting that the standards and exceptions change and are forever unobtainable, but convincing oneself that no matter what happens you’ll do you best and try your hardest.
Edit: Milk and Cookies is clearly a euphemism for some awesome weed.
Jon/Alex: you nailed it. The ‘92 World Series parade speech is the keynote address. This is incomplete without it, and you’re brilliant for including it. Hell, I’ll put it up there with some of Churchill’s for nailing a mood.
Hey, Dave: it’s Len. The OG fans have your back, always will. But what Jon and Alex have done this spring is a wonderful bit of storytelling and wrongs righting that’ll plant seeds for an era of newfound appreciation. The richest individual story in Blue Jays history has found its narrative and its voice.
Couldn't have said it better. Isn't it great that the wider world is now learning what we always knew? Dave Stieb was/is special.
"Just another baseball" this line and the story of Dave Stieb almost broke me. He had the greatest called shot of all time. In fact I think he had the only called shot ever.
I turn 25 today, and I’m crying about a pitcher I never got to watch play. I don’t remember moving to Dorktown, but I’m a proud resident.
Thank you Jon and Alex and anyone else involved for a great series.
Happy birthday. Jon and Alex are master storytellers.
this is genuinely the most heart-wrenched i've felt watching a documentary about a person who i didn't even know the name of going in. to jon and alex, i cannot begon to express how much dorktown has made me love and find sentiment in the game of baseball that i've loved for so long, whether it's for my all-too-familiar hometown mariners or dave stieb, an anomaly who "has no place in our world", as you might say. know that you have brought cathartic tears out of many, and brought inspiration to so many more 💚
These series are the highest quality content when it comes to baseball. Incredible
i swear u are everywhere from sports videos to ddr
It's some of the highest quality content on TH-cam period.
Some of the highest quality content on the platform period, in my opinion.
Baseball doesn’t exist is really good too
You gonna fuck your dog after this
That ball sent careening into the bullpen by Higginson at the call of Parrish after all of that being caught by Dave Stieb at the literal end of his career being a one away failed no-hitter is honestly having me question the existence of divine providence over here.
Dave Stieb, "The Pitcher of the 80s". I love that. Let's see them make history right in December of this year and that could be on the plaque!
"Let faith oust fact; let fancy oust memory; I look deep down and do believe." Another heroic tale by Mr. Bois that I am sad to see end but appreciate all the more.
1:09:47 A bit of additional context; Roy Halladay passed away unexpectedly and tragically at the age of 40 due to an accident at sea in November of 2017. He was inducted to the Hall of Fame in January of 2019. Just slightly over a calendar year separated his untimely passing from his vote-in.
His career stats are certainly HOF worthy, I'm not arguing otherwise. But, I feel that many of the voters were experiencing a bit of the Kurt Cobain effect when reviewing his career. Halladay never had the chance to make a retirement breaking comeback, like Stieb did. And, that tragedy may have also played a part in their vote. There are elements to Halladay's HOF election that aren't present with Stieb's.
That doesn't excuse what the HOF voters are doing to Stieb. This just may help a bit with explaining the difference.
Not only that, but Halladay didn’t have any prime ending injuries so everyone got to see his career play out, and how good he would be, whereas Stieb may have had a prime year or two left when his 1991 season was ended early.
@@fortynights1513 and the opportunity for playoff/World Series heroics, another ace in the hole Morris has that Stieb does not.
Morris probably doesn't make the Hall without his 10-inning masterpiece in Game 7 of the '91 Series. You know, the one that he would have taken the L on if Lonnie Smith remembered how to run.
The other difference is in the writer's own behavior. Halladay was - even in his Toronto days - widely known and talked about as one of the best pitchers in the league, with five top-5 CY finishes in addition to his two trophies. His endurance was also probably more widely celebrated, because his 7-9 complete games every year just felt so out of his time.
Doc's HOF worthiness was never in doubt, and with his shoulder being as dead as it could be at age 36, he wasn't gonna come back either. Maybe his early death and what you described turned him from a sure inductee into a first-ballot inductee, yes.
@@fortynights1513 Doc tore his lat and then a few months later his rotator cuff at age 35 after winning a CY at 33 and finishing second behind Kershaw at 34 (led the NL in WAR both years with 250 and 230 IP respectively). I'd call that a prime ending injury.
Halladay also had a perfect game, the thing Stieb never got.
I’ve been dying to see how it goes for Steib, but as a card carrying member of Bois’ Boys, I feel it’s my duty to wait for the melancholic tones of a saxophone-soundtracked video to see how this resolves.
I've spent every day since March 1 fighting the urge to look up Dave on Wikipedia
My first exposure to Dave Stieb was playing MLB the Show 17, he was one of my best pitchers throughout the game’s cycle so I already had a soft spot for him going into this. Much like the pattern this documentary displays, he was screwed and forgotten, never being put into another MLB The Show game since then. This doc really made me appreciate him 10 fold, I’m all for helping rally the baseball community to push to the HOF spot he deserves.
P.S. Jack Morris is the ultimate douche and his HOF spot should definitely be traded for Dave
Probably the most cathartic emotional climax I've ever seen in a documentary, and yet more proof on a colossal list that the BBWAA is a fradulent organization.
I've always said that the baseball writers association is a fraudulent way to elect players to the Hall of Fame. The first major problem, is that there are members of the baseball writers association that don't cover baseball primarily, they just do it very little of the time. Another is that writers are not expelled from the bbwaa if they haven't significantly covered baseball in 5 years or 10 years.
Another problem with the Hall of Fame selection is that it puts too much emphasis on character and personal grudges with the writers, instead of excellence on the field.
Barry bonds used steroids. So did Pudge Rodriguez of the Texas rangers and Florida Marlins. So did Adrian beltray briefly in 2004 when he put up 48 home runs, then never hit anywhere near that again when he got off the juice.
Barry bonds will never be in the Hall of Fame because he was a jerk to the writers of the bbwaa.
Rodriguez and Adrian beltre were loved by everybody, nice to the media, and very accommodating to the writers. They are in the Hall of Fame.
The baseball Hall of Fame has a major problem with excluding the home run King, the hits King Pete Rose, and the greatest pitcher of the mid 80s to mid 90s, Roger Clemens.
Roger Clemens took steroids after he had a Hall of Fame worthy resume. He has already won multiple cy Young awards, and he already had well over 200 and something wins before he took steroids.
This was a like a four-hour Rewinder episode on the time Roy Halladay just missed a no-hitter in his second career start. Masterclass as always, gentlemen!
You guys and gals are the only thing keeping me positive right now. More importantly, you're providing god-tier, subscription-quality documentaries and stories for free, for everyone, and that's fucking amazing. Thank you thank you.
Went from not knowing who Dave Stieb was to feeling personally and emotionally invested in his career and life. In a world of endless takes and constant commentary, this is one of the best examples I’ve seen of what sports media is capable of. Statistically thorough and emotionally impactful at the same time. This reminded me why I love sports in the first place. Much respect to everyone involved in making this series
Seriously one of the best told stories I have ever seen. Gut-wrenching, hopeful at times, but never not strange.
But how do they mention Derek Bell and not bring up Operation Shutdown and getting arrested by the NYPD vice squad? All-in-all it was an amazing series, I'm just surprised that one of the stranger side stories got no love.
@@jst25 inb4 they make a documentary on Derek Bell LOL
What you make here is art. Art that could create a difference in the hall of fame of baseball itself. Scratch that. WILL make a difference. Calling it now. Welcome early Hall of Fame inductee Dave Stieb.
As someone who has been a Jays fan my whole life, I’ve only briefly heard about Dave Stieb. Whether it’s from tv broadcasts, his name being on the level of excellence, or having a few of his baseball cards. Unfortunately I was unable to experience the initial rise to glory of the franchise. This does not change the fact I was transported on an emotional journey, truly witnessing something special for the first time, becoming invested with this amazing series
Life long braves fan and this series made me emotionally invested in Dave Stieb a man I had never heard of
Me too
❤️
Thank you from every Blue Jays fan - a team whose home market literally touches three oceans. Our boys never get their due from America. It's so great to see such a massive and wonderful deep dive focused not just on Canada's team (until we get the Expos back), but on Dave Stieb. No Blue Jay is more deserving of this dedicated documentary, and tying it to the great Roy Halladay was a perfect chef's kiss.
The arm should have been cloned. Or put in the Smithsonian. Twice - 20 years apart - he did something astronomically unlikely, and I’m not even sure which one’s more amazing.
Twenty years old, an outfielder who’s never thrown a ball in anger. Transitions to pitching…and he’s IN THE MLB ALL-STAR GAME (!!) twenty-odd months later.
Forty years old, retired five years, heads to camp as a guest instructor. Throws a little BP…and he’s pitching for an 88-win team in the impossible AL East three-and-a-half months later.
Who even does that? DAVE STIEB DOES THAT!
I said it on the first one. "I can't believe I watched 45 minutes about a player I never heard of in a sport I actively dislike and I can't believe I'll watch three other 45 minute episodes.
Not only will I do that, I'll watch nearly 4 hours of the stuff in the end. And I'll be moved to near tears twice.
God Bless you Dave Stieb. Now, and presumably forever, my favourite baseball player.
I live near Toronto. I'm about as casual a Blue Jays fan as you'll get. I've heard the name Dave Stieb a few times, but never knew anything about him. Thank you for this series. Thank you for telling me the amazing story of Dave Stieb's career. I will hold this story forever in my heart.
You have to have a podcast episode or an interview with Dave stieb. He likes the work you guys did. I would love to hear his thoughts. On the series and his appreciation for the series. Would be amazing. And finally him to be inducted in the hall of fame
This series makes me want a Blue Jays Stieb jersey. I love sports and I am glad that you introduce us into different people a new sports perspectives.
Thank Jon and Alex
I also want one too
Me too! I just bought a Dave Steib autograph baseball card on Ebay LoL!!!
@@jamessutter6700 I think it would be interesting to look at the resale price of Dave Stieb merchandise and see if it's been impacted by this documentary coming out.
@@northstarjakobs it HAS TO have. As a matter of fact I have been watching it for weeks. I also got an 18 lot of his cards for 1.00 a month and a half ago. All of those card suddenly alone are 1.50-3.00 lol.
But the autographs have gone from about 10-15 bucks to 25-50 bucks. In a month and a half. So I've been watching it since the first video came out. But this last one coming out seems to have done the deal. And people are just aware of him now. I don't really expect anything, I'm a collector/investor of baseball cards. I'll always have him. And in a way I care even more for them now than a lot of my PC. LOL.
@@jamessutter6700 That's really cool!
Jon and Alex's storytelling abilities are remarkable. 1:03:17 made me burst into laughter that lasted for at least a minute; and the appearance of Roy's name at 1:13:39 hit me like a tonne of bricks. Can't wait to see what stories you guys tackle with Dorktown next. There's some NHL and soccer teams and players I can think of that would perfectly suit a format like this.
same. "cocaine popular" might be the best headline i've ever seen
It's been 24 years, and today I learned I was in attendance for Stieb's home return game in '98 against the Mets (my Mom and I always went to TO for the Canada Day series)
This series has been a joy to watch for a long time Jays fan.
Watching this in February 2024. Stieb didnt make the ballot last December. Jack Morris was on the committee. Unbelievable.
Amazing, I really hope Dave Stieb gets to see this and knows how much Toronto fans and the entire baseball community appreciate him
@@KIMWEXLERGAMING Where's that info from
Is any of that recorded also ?
@@balneor jon posted about it on his twitter
@@lacanm1554 Ok
This is, by far, the greatest documentary series about a sport-related theme that I have ever seen. It was, frankly, incredible. Thank you, from the bottom of my heart. Let's do the Oilers next! #99 forever!
Kurri
Fuhr would be more their style.
You think this is good, you should watch their documentary on the Mariners.
@@naverilllang I've watched everything they've ever made!
Just amazing Jon and Alex. I went from having no idea who Dave Stieb to being absolutely crushed by his fate at the hands of the BBWAA. Stieb belongs in the HOF.
Extremely grateful. Definitely worth the price of a movie ticket. 😀
As a Brit who has never even watched an inning of Baseball in is life, I thoroughly enjoyed this series, just like the Seattle series you did. It’s not gonna make me start watching baseball, but I will look forward to your next deep dive
to be fair, Baseball is boring as hell on TV most of the time, much better experience if you're at a game in person.
@@cybertronguy98 That way, even if it was boring, you spent a nice day in the park.
The coolest baseball story ever told...and what a way to tell it!
I remember 1998 well:
1. Watching Stieb make a start for Syracuse at Buffalo in his comeback bid on the day of my Ph.D. proposal defense.
2. Listening to Stieb's 1998 debut against Baltimore and listening to him battle through a challenging but scoreless inning.
3. Attending Stieb's start at SkyDome in August. There were tears when he qualified for the win after pitching five innings...I'm not crying, you're crying!
Thank you, Dave Stieb, from a Blue Jays fan since day-one of the franchise!
There goes those Secret Base boys again, have me tearing up in my living room over a team I never rooted for, sobbing over a player that played for one of my team's bitter rivals, and now about to find how I get a Dave Stieb BJs jersey and contact info for the HoF Era Committee. You guys are second to none.
I knew nothing about Dave Steib going into this(Born in early 90's a Dodger fan). Watched this with my Dad and its always cool seeing all the current managers/coaches who used to play baseball and some of their stats. What a crazy journey it was following Stieb and 80-90's Blue Jays, got to say he has to be considered for the HoF after seeing his career presented by you guys.
Thanks for the detail and work that went into this. Dave Stieb is one of the most underappreciated pitchers of his time and hopefully this series explains to people that aren't Blue Jays fans as to why he is known as one of the best that never truly got his due.
The music choices are always so good in these videos. It doesn't yet said enough, but yeah they're a huge huge part of how emotionally powerful they always are. The music when Stieb retires is just so sad. Whoever picks the music is a genius.
The internet's Jon Bois and his young protégé Alex Rubenstein continue to put out the greatest sports content being produced today. Stieb is more than deserving of the Hall, and you guys are more than deserving of an award for the quality of your work.
Time to guy buy a Dave Stieb jersey.
A few weeks ago I was watching the Mariners game on MLB TV and Dave Simms and Mike Blowers were talking about Dave Stieb and how he had the best slider they had ever seen… I just remember thinking “this is the crossover episode I didn’t know I needed”
At the end of this I wonder what Steib's white whale truly was. Was it the no-hitter? Was it the World Series ring? Was it simply being able to finally enjoy baseball in that final year? Is it his quest for the HoF? Maybe it's all of these things. Maybe Captain Ahab always needs a white whale, when he conquers one he must find another, because he has nothing without one.
Strangely, I think the white whale was himself. I feel like he was constantly changing himself to do what needed to be done, and then, after coming out of retirement, being exactly who and what he'd been for so long, a world-class pitcher, was what was needed. As a die-hard Reds fan, I will go to my grave saying that Pete Rose needs to be in the HoF. After this series, I will say that even more for Stieb.
I think his White Whale is on a far more basic level. I think it was recognition. All of those things he was chasing were in search of recognition of exactly who he was and what he could do for his team and the sport.
@@therocknrollmillennial535 As a die-hard Jays fan who grew up watching Dave Stieb, Pete Rose needs to be in the HOF. It's bullshit he's not. May we see them both in.
@@finamenon He did get recognition from Jays fans. We knew who he was and loved him for it. (It's part of being a Jays fan, being ignored by the rest of the baseball world until we pound the crap out of everyone.) His peers recognized his greatness. Just that goddamn press.
If anything, it seems like his white whale was _the concept of catching_ a white whale, if that makes sense. It didn't matter what it was, he just needed to see it through. It was only once he no longer had one that he seemed to find some kind of peace.
Imagine if Steib had an inch of luck throughout his playing career, he coulda had one of the brightest resumes of anyone to play the game. He could have potentially had 3 no-hitters, 3 cy young's, a perfect game, and 2 world series rings. He could've been considered one of the greatest to ever step on a mound, but if if's and but's were candy and nuts, then we'd all have a merry Christmas. Even with his atrocious luck, he still managed to assemble a phenomenal career and became one of the best pitchers of his era, which is something I don't know if anyone other than him could have done. I'd argue he's one of the most important people to ever play for the Jays, just one of the million little butterfly wing flaps that brought to them to the mountain top and showed everyone that Canada can win ball games just like all the hallowed American institutions can. Even if he never makes it too the HOF, the story of the Jays, hell maybe even the story of baseball, cannot be told without him
Masterful work on the part of you, Alex, and everyone else who worked on it. This is cinema right here
RIP Roy Halladay, gone way too damn soon
Gonna miss Dave. Luckily I can come back whenever I do!
I'm prolly gonna wait for the supercut :)
Who ever thought that a bunch of charts and numbers could bring a person to tears. Incredible work as always Secret Base. Hopefully, Dave gets the recognition he so clearly deserves.
How in the world is there still half an hour left at 50:00???? absolutely great story telling, love the series. Thank you guys and Thanks Dave.
This was absolutely a masterpiece. I was a kid at the end of Stieb's first tour with the Jays. Just getting into baseball and the Blue Jays were immediately my favourite team (Expos second). My favourite player was Kelly Gruber, soon to be followed by John Olerud. I knew of Steib of course...but by this time he was going through what he was going through as depicted in this part. I didn't really know the rest of his history until this magnificent documentary. Just an outstanding job.
I grew up in Toronto in the 80s and 90s and baseball was the only sport I ever really loved. Thank you so much for giving Dave Stieb the respect and attention he always deserved.
“One of the greatest pitchers in the entire history of the Seattle Pilots” has me on the floor! God bless Alex Rubenstein
“Cocaine popular”
God bless Jon Bois too
Jim Bouton may not have been one of the greatest pitchers in Pilots history, but he is the most noteworthy, most groundbreaking, and most significant figure in their all-too-brief history!
Dave if you're reading this, you're the greatest Blue Jay of all time and if this video series helps get you into Cooperstown I'll be so happy. Jon and Alex, if you're reading this thank you for making the best sports content on youtube and making videos like this one and the mariners one and the beautiful pain of being a baseball fan.
I'm from Australia. Baseball isn't a mainstream sport here, and you'd struggle to find a league outside of a major city. After your videos on the Mariners and Dave, I've signed up to play for the first time.
Please keep these amazing stories coming.
How’s it going?
How's your experience playing? Hope you're having fun
It's been great! The club has some absolute legends that are willing to teach if you're willing to learn
The last 5 minutes of this show the magic of sports perfectly and they also show why I love this channel and especially dorktown so much its those incredibly unrealistic scenarios that come to pass seemingly every other week with most of us never even realizing that they happened.
zoomer here, late 00s and early 10s phillies brought me back to my childhood. got chills when you showed halladay's no hitters. the whole video to that point had me emotional so that was definitely a factor. amazing stuff as always
Roy Halladay was the retread of Dave. He was literally the exact same player with the exact same kind of endurance, just with more strikeouts.
Roy Halladay is still the last man to throw 260 plus innings in the major leagues in one season. That was almost 20 years ago now. I think he wound up with 266 or something in 36 starts. 36 starts is something we haven't seen since then either.
Thank you so much for this series! I have since gone through all my childhood binders of baseball cards, taken out all the Stieb cards (including a couple that are apparently valuable) and organized them in their own pages of my “Book of Bobs” which is a binder with every single Bob in the MLB. I put in a divider so that he has his own section: Captain Ahab.
His page is right behind the page of Bob Gibson cards.
“The universe is the true artist among us” - another beautiful line in this beautiful story.
Absolutely outstanding work. One more interesting tidbit: September 24, 1988 - the Julio Franco game - was also the same day Ben Johnson won, then lost, the Gold medal in the 100m at the Seoul Olympics. Tough day for Canadian sports fans.
Stieb was a bit before my time, so before this series I only really knew of him as "that guy who kept almost throwing no-hitters". He's now one of my all-time favorite players and I fully support his Hall of Fame candidacy. Thank you, Jon and Alex, for shining a light on this man's incredible journey and accomplishments!
It's crazy to me that despite being a pretty big sports fan and almost 40, I never heard of Dave Steib until this series. I guess you guys covered why that is though...
This was the time that I was moved to tears by a no-hitter thrown 30 years ago by a player I'd never heard of. I've always admired the storytelling on this channel, but this documentary has taken it to a whole new level. There is nowhere I will not follow you. And I can't wait to see where we go next.
Just Beautiful! Thank you for letting a modern era blue jay’s fan learn more about this Blue Jays legend! When I was at the game a few days ago I finally could appreciate Dave Steibs name on the Level of Excellence.
I've probably watched this 6 or 7 times now, it's just so beautiful to watch a person grew and learn and change. and after all the struggle and heartbreak, achieve their goal. It makes me cry every time. Then the fact he came back for just a little more, like Moonlight Graham in Field of Dreams, just makes me smile and remember that all these players who we love and hate and cheer and boo are just the same kinds of people as we are. It's really just beautiful.
I knew I picked Steib and the Jays on RBI baseball for a reason. So good was he, so under appreciated, underrated, and a damn important spoke in the crushing wheel that was the early 90's Blue Jays. Great job. Keep it up
I grew up in southwestern Ontario, a rabid Tigers fan in the '80s. I **hated** the Jays.
On Friday, September 25, 1998, I was living in Toronto and was at the SkyDome to watch my Tigers beat the Jays, 7-5. I was in the 100 level behind home plate. Dave Stieb came on to get the last out of the eighth inning.
Despite hating that team so ferociously as a kid, and Stieb being one of my main nemeses, I stood and applauded with the crowd when he jogged in from the bullpen.
My goodness, this was so well done.
May Stieb and my man Lou Whitaker be inducted together in a few years.
As a Jays fan, I know your man Whitaker has been done wrong too. May we see them both. Have to say though, still not over you guys robbing us in 87.
This series has made me feel anger, sadness, joy, and hope more than any other documentary I’ve ever watched.
Such an amazing and detailed series, was such a joy to watch, thank you!
its really hard to describe what this meant to myself and jays fans across canada. sharing bits and pieces of it with my dad, who saw through all of this up close. its a weird form of nostalgia, because i was not here for any of it, but still feel a sense of attachment. can't wait for whatever comes next from you two
Incredible storytelling. Thanks for doing what you do, and I hope you keep doing it. S+ tier entertainment. On two separate occasions this had my (barely interested in baseball) gf literally crying, no, SOBBING 😭 like a lost child haha. Amazing stuff as always. Bless 🙏🏽
All the dislikes are from Baseball writers who didn't give Stieb the Cy Young or vote him into the Hall of Fame.
or confused by WAR lol
Jack Morris dislikes this video
but dislikes don't exist kek
@@Just.Kidding they do you just don’t see them
I heard Derek Bell gave it a 👎 from his boat
Thanks!
OMG, over 4 hours of Dave Stieb content and then you randomly throw in a bagged milk joke at the end and I just lost it.
Without Secret Base I would never even know about Dave Stieb. Thanks y’all, your channel is friggin great.
When he gets to the Hall, I hope his plaque says HERE'S SOME DAMN CHARTS.
I also fervently believe you two and Jomboy and Bailey and others will be there, too. If baseball still exists in 20 years, then the flame was kept alive by you guys and not any of the clownfucks running the show now.
That, or "WAR. What is it good for? Absolutely nothing!"
He's not getting into the Hall :/
@@harper-leightonscott4566 you are going to be wrong
@@Donald38 I'm going to be right if bret Saberhagen isn't in the hall with the same amount of WAR roughly and 2 cy's than stieb has no chance
Although I would love to see him in the Hall, I don't think he will get in. The criteria used to select players are quite inflexible. Sorry to get off topic a little but I think It's high time that the Toronto Blue Jays get off their high horses and scrap the ridiculous policy of not retiring any player's number unless he's in the Hall. It seems to imply they can't tell who are the greatest Blue Jays and needed the Hall to validate their choices. Stieb and the late Tony Fernandez are long overdue to have their numbers retired by the Jays, but I doubt that will happen
I had the opportunity to go to a Blue Jays game in Toronto this year. I was so happy to see Dave's name on the wall when I got to my seat. Thank you Secret Base