VO2 MAX TESTING -- What it is, how it works and why it matters
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 พ.ย. 2022
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Today we're heading to Revo PT in Boulder to do some metabolic testing and get an objective view at our current fitness. From this test we hope to learn three things:
- Our VO2Max values (both relative and absolute)
- Our lactate threshold power
- And what fuel sources our bodies are using at different intensities to help dial in our on-bike nutrition
Macky did this test a decade ago when he was 24 and super fit. How will his numbers compare?
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Hey Syd and Macky. I'm 36 now, I was in the infantry 12 years ago. I'm 5'11 and weighed 165lbs back then. It was normal to pump out 100 cold pushups, ruck 20km with a small adult of weight on my back and run 15km in blizzard conditions on the daily. Those were the days. I'll never be that fit again, but I can try. You two are a pretty decent inspiration, showing us that you can be a machine even in your mid 30's. I've ramped up my fitness a lot lately, gravel riding, lifting weights, I've "ran" a few times last month.. Pound for pound I'm the fittest person in the general vicinity.
So thanks for showing, even us vets, what is possible.
In the words of Jocko Willink... Get after it.
This finally made me intuitively understand why body fat loss works so much better when doing light excersizing, thank you so much for this great explanation!
This was super cool to see! All the nerdy stuff, those graph animations with explanations was spot on 👌
I super appreciate the effort that went into this video and this topic. Excellent explanation of Vo2 max with great real world numbers.
This was super interesting to see all the science behind fitness related to mountain biking and racing! Really cool!
Love diving deep and getting nerdy about training with you guys. Very cool video!
Absolutely stellar content- thank you for putting this out there for us to geek out over this data!
Those charts and graphs were, indeed, helpful. Thank you for taking the time to make them and teach us! It kinda makes me look forward to getting on the trainer a little more this winter (I am terrible at the trainer since outside is what brings the happy brain chemicals together for me). Also, having come to mountain biking from triathlon, which data intensive, I’m a little surprised this isn’t a yearly or semi yearly practice. BUT I know that being too intensely data focused can drain the fun for many people. It’s awesome that Coach Durner was so close without all the lab tests! I hope this data pays off for you!
This brings me back to my metabolic testing days. Cool to see how the technology has evolved. I love digging into those numbers. Mike's comment on being able to hear you breath was great. I've noticed that too.
Nice chemistry lesson!! Thanks you guys this was awesome. I learned something.
Just want to add that you've got a very smart coach. Syd's VO2 is very respectable with a lot of potential for aerobic development. Macky's numbers are very, very good. keep on doing what you're doing! Excited to see this test again in 12 months. Also, would love to see results of any breath training as I suffer from EIA and it can really limit me at times.
Thanks for educating me on more of the science of fitness
This is all SO FREAKING INTERESTING. Thanks for the vid. 😁
It's a video that makes me even more excited about exercising. thank you very much🥰😍
Great video. Thanks.
Both of you are awesome. Thanks for the great content.
That was great information. Thanks for the share!!
Back in the day I had a girlfriend who was an up and coming professional triathlete. I reached out to a very good friend for advice about how she wanted to see what her current performance was and how it could be improved. My friend recommended famous (or infamous, depending on what you think) Dr. Herman Falsetti who had worked with the US Olympic Cycling Team and many professional athletes, including Greg LeMond and some kid named Lance. Back then the technology wasn't as sophisticated as it is today. The good doctor hooked my gf up to a dozen sensors stuck to her body and had this mask attached to a giant hose that measured her breathing. He put her on a treadmill for a 13 minute VO2 Max test, which, as you guys point out, isn't only to measure your outputs but also to see at what level you'll break. I don't know what Dr. Falsetti was expecting, but my gf went the entire 13 minutes and probably could've gone on longer, because she finished up in really good shape. Dr. Falsetti told her that not only did she have an outstanding VO2 max level, she was also the second highest performing professional female athlete that he had tested. She took the news well from Dr. Falsetti, but she was really angry about it on the long drive home. Because, naturally, she wanted to be #1. I never heard the end of it for a long time. It's good to see that today, as back then, there are no shortcuts to achieving and maintaining good competitive athletic performance. You still have to put in the hard work and also be disciplined and smart about what you're doing. Keep up the good work!
Really interesting, thanks!
Really interesting insight. Thanks for sharing 🙂
2:10 Syd, representing all of us in "team impostor syndrome"
That was REALLY interesting to watch!
I got a better idea of what some of those funny numbers on my watch mean, as imprecise as they might be. It kind of makes me want to get tested for real.
I also learned that I'm horribly unfit, but we already knew that lol
Except the numbers show she is insanely strong! I was so proud of my VO2 max of 45. Syd is the real deal.
@@newttella1043 she's an absolute beast! They are both at an impressive level of fitness and riding, and also super nice people. That's why they've been my favorite YT channel for years.
@@Leo_Inclan I concur. Most down to earth MTB TH-camrs out there.
That was curiously engrossing. I love a ramp test 😬 or any other endeavour where there’s nowhere to hide 👍
I found the chemistry and stats really interesting. Thanks for the metric breakdown too ha ha
Thanks for the numbers! Very interesting video. Your numbers are literally off the charts for us normies.
So why does watching Syd do VO2 max testing make me tear up?! Thanks for such an informative, and surprisingly emotional, video! 😅
Really interested in the science nerd stuff! What I would find interesting now is how these numbers affect your off season training-that is to say, what you do with these numbers. Thanks for the stickers guys! They made it to Austria and onto my laptop.
It would be interesting to compare the results at point where you are fully prepped for a competition micro-phase. Those are *very* good numbers in any case, and especially very shortly after a major stage race.
Syd', your Numbers are impressive after such a long break! Macky's too, of course but I feel like you can need the words of encouragement more.
Very impressif💪🏻
Just wondering how your lab tested VO2 max numbers compare what your Garmin or Wahoo tell you. Loved the graphics! 😊
Our cycling computer (the Stages Dash) doesn't tell us (or at least we haven't found it anywhere) so we don't have anything to compare to...
Syd here. While we don't have an estimated vo2 from stages, Mike uses a program called WKO that does spit out an estimated vo2, using a similar algorithm. It predicted 49 for me and 62 for Macky, so low in both cases. Ultimately I think these algorithms probably get in the ballpark for most people (Garmin claims 5% but apparently the more of an outlier you are -- high or low -- the less likely it is to be accurate), but it's not the same as doing a gas exchange test 🤷♀️
@@sydandmacky Thanks, great answer!
@@somethingelsehere8089 exercise physiologist here. I've seen garmin estimates being anywhere from +/-3-14% so a pretty wide range
Polar and Garmin vo2 estimates are pretty good for me. Very similar to lab numbers.
More than I thought I'd ever want to know about heavy breathing! Very good! 🤪
You two are phenomenal athletes. I like that even though you are, there is room for improvement.
On a tangent, did you know Greg LeMond in his prime had a VO2 Max of 92-94? That's incredible considering how much more we understand about training and eating, etc. today.
NGL, I was rockin in my chair and hufffin with ya at 13:02
Thank you guys that was great info I’ve always wanted to do this test , as a Canadian I’ve always wanted to try this test not sure where to look ?
Contact your local university. Their kinesiology department will have the equipment and may do paid testing.
Nice job with the graphics guys. Always sucks to try to perform on a trainer when you're not used to it. Might be worth spending a little time on the trainer before you go in next time.
My breathing always sounds like Syd when i am pushing a climb or going hard. My hearthrate also hits high 180-190. I really have a good condition, leaving friends behind on climbs etcetera but i cant calm my body so i need alot of food and fluids to keep going. Might give this test a go!
Come to ride "Brazil Ride" next year
It would be nice to hear thoughts about how us financially challenged amateurs could use on HR or HR & Power to DiY our own training programs.
That was very interesting. I have no idea what my numbers would be. I did do some testing of my own today while hill training. I did three hills with different lengths and grades. I measured heart rate at the end of each hill. My first hill was 1/2 mile long with an average grade of 3%. My heart rate was 130 at the end. My second hill was 1/4 mile long with an average grade of 7%. My heart rate at the end was 165. My last hill was 1/8 mile with a 14% grade. My heart rate at the end was 201. My conclusion is that I need more strength, more endurance and lots more cardio. I'll be very sore for three or four days so much rest is definitely needed. I may need to call into work tomorrow. 😂
Last time I did a VO2 Max test I almost puked in the mask. Props to you guys, those tests are not easy.
This was some super, science, nerd, type things...... Eff yeah!!! For super, science, nerd, type things!
Interesting thanks!
I’d be interested to know, presuming you have Apple watches or some other fitness wearable that gives an estimate for VO2 max, how close was the algorithm value compared to the measurement??
We don't, but have heard that the accuracy on those devices varies significantly. If you give it good data (accurate HR zones, etc) they are fairly good, but since that data can be hard to come by, they are often pretty inaccurate.
Did u do the test without any ventilator/cooling?
Are you riding Ice Man this year!
Could you guys address how accessible or inaccessible this type of testing is (cost, testing sites, qualified coaches or exercise physiologists, etc.)
See if your local University or College has a sports laboratory. At my local one, you can take a VO2max test for CND$130. Alternatively, you could participate in a research study that includes a VO2max and be paid to find out.
So the RER number kinda gives you an actual number for when pain cave time begins haha
Is anything done to control overheating of the test subject? Like lowering room temp or using a fan.
That room has a big garage door that opens to the outside that we opened. But this is also an interesting test in that you don't necessarily need to hit your absolute max power or intensity because your VO2 MAX tends to level off above a certain point. So while it's more comfortable to be cooled down, it isn't really necessary to get the information you're testing for!
Fun video with lots of great info!
Syd, have you ever been evaluated for Exercise induced asthma? Just curious if that would contribute to you feeling being lower and the fleminess when you are working hard!
Great content!!
I used to cough a lot after my rides and it turned out I did have exercise induced asthma which eventually turned into full blown asthma. Great news is it is fully under control and as long as you know what you are working with it doesn't have to slow you down at all! Good call on Syd as I've wondered about that as well, her breathing does seem to be a little more labored at times than it might need to be.
Definitely worth looking into.
I can assure you I do not have asthma, but thanks for the concern. Coach Mike has been coaching athletes for a long time and has never suggested that or recommended that I get that checked for exercise induced asthma, so I think it's pretty safe to say that that isn't the cause. I think a lot of people might be surprised if they listened to themselves breathe at race pace on GoPro 🤣
You guys pulled so hard the pixels in the background got all blurry
When I grow up, I want to be just like you guys......sadly I am 60 years old...;(
Its not too late bro just go ride your bike. Its good for our health too. Enjoy buddy!
Won't these numbers vary with altitude? Maybe current Macky is much stronger VO2 wise than young sea level Macky?
He did the test in 2012 in Colorado Springs so similar altitude :) but yes, a sea level test would be interesting. That said, we almost never race at sea level so the numbers wouldn't be as relevant 🤷♀️
Any reason why during my test the watts were only increased every 2 minutes opposed to 1 minute. Wonder if it makes difference. It was strictly a VO2 max test not an ftp test.
That's the way my (Macky) first one was. I think there are just different testing protocols.
Thanks for clarifying.
Why did you use the ramp test en not the 20 min effort ftp test
Yeah, an FTP test is used to approximate FTP and if you hooked someone up to this mask during that test, you *might* catch their VO2 Max. But you'd miss the other info we were able to get by doing the ramp test (fuel source at different intensities, approximate lactate threshold from RER, etc)
to stay within the fat part of lactic thresh hold is impossible on the trail.
interesting..id say you guys are gonna do ok :)
Max HR of 181 at age 24? I realize everyone is different but on average isn't that quite low for such a young buck? I'm 45 and still have a MHR of 190. Perhaps I'm part hummingbird.
Yeah, I tend to run fairly low HRs compared to lots of people. My race pace has always been in the mid 160s whereas Syd's is a solid 10 beats higher.
Tell Mike nice melly
12:30 why is your seat so high? Full pelvis rocking, feet scooping, no neck.
We've been professionally fit and that is the correct seat height, it's simply normal for pedaling form to degrade at high intensities. Also, both Dane and Mike have lots of experience bike fitting and neither were worried 😉
You have to know what your body is doing, so you can measure improvements from training and diet 👍
At age 50 and far from competitive my VO2 Max is 57.
That's a very competitive value.
I tested D1 track atheltes who were at this value. Many people in the exercise physiology field disagree strongly with the idea that you can change a healthy individuals results much. I'm of the opinion that it can change slightly but there is a genetic ceiling for all of us that cannot be negotiated. You've probably been close to this value ur whole life if u got it tested in different stages of your life.
@@henriknilsson1125 I keep in shape. Not a star or competitive. Recreational mountain biker. Weight is 162 lbs and 5'11. I have very low hemoglobin (127 - live in Vancouver) even with iron supplements and lots of red meat. My heart rate overnight routinely falls to 36 to 44. My VO2 Max is estimated from a FitBit Charge 4. I think the VO2 Max likely a somewhat high over estimate. But I can run a quarter mile at 10.6 mph on the treadmill after a mile at 6.6 to 7.4 mph. And treadmill at that speed seems faster than road. Which ain't bad for 50. I am likely a genetic freak of nature. Whatever I am doing.... Can maintain a decent effort with very low hemoglobin. I could likely benefit from higher ferritin and hemoglobin. And have tried to increase both. For whatever reason - my body does not think it needs it. Haha.
Youre in the superior range for your age group according to acsm.
My heartrate after a mile on the treadmill - the last quarter at 10.6 mph... Maximum 206 bpm. At 50.
looks like your biggest gains are going to come from losing weight. 5kgs is huge in xc racing. killer ftp!
Not if the weight lost is muscle!!
@@irfuel fat buddy, fat
@@irfuel going to pro cyclist fat percentage yelds huge gains. Loosing 10 lbs of fat is massive for a guy the has a 400watt ftp.thats what I would focus on. We are not talking about anorexia here, just being race weight.tue older you get the harder it is to get to it.
Threshold. Threshold. Threshold.
The ceiling of VO2 max is more than likely genetically predisposed for all of us. Be very suspicious of someone that claims they can raise your VO2 max ceiling. You can improve yourself to get to your ceiling - the capacity of your lungs and size of your heart combined with how your body biologically functions isn't going to change much for a healthy individual. Even if you quit smoking - lost weight - ate like a champion you would only increase your results slightly again pointing to the fact this is mostly genetic. When testing my classmates in college this guy with no muscle or drive who played video games all day tested at 72. Yes 72. While the dedicated cross country D1 atheltes didn't break 70 in the whole program. As a matter of fact many females didnt break 60 in general and my lazy weed smoking ass hit low 60s. This also proves there is a lot more to exercise physiology and human performance than VO2 max cause all of the D1 athletes would have smoked me in the mile lol. But despite about a 50 50 split in the experts on this I've never once been provided data that shows more than a 10 point change in VO2 max unless the individual was severely obese - smoking a pack a day or having some other medical predisposition that was resolved. On the contrary I've seen hundreds of studies where researchers try every method in the book to raise VO2 max of a group of healthy individuals and after months of effort there is no statistical significance in the results.... Also adding to this argument is a lot of people who say big VO2 max changes are possible in healthy individuals tend to have very liberal points of view whilst the opposite is true for the other side of the coin. Either way this topic is super interesting. Thanks for sharing your results with us!
When did you go to school? There are a significant amount of research that came out in the past 5-10 years that shows vo2 max can be improved through training. However similar to your first statements, how much you can improve and that start point of your vo2max is mostly based on genetics.
@@Se0what graduated 2019. Please show me the studies that have came out!
@@Se0what Im looking for studies of healthy people who change their VO2 max dramatically meaning more than 10%. Ofcourse it can change a little as beneficial physiological adaptations happen with training but not much. I don't like anecdotal evidence but given that the one athlete in this video who had a previous VO2 max measured was almost the exact same after training very hard for many years seems to be exactly what one would expect if it didn't change much. Also there would be a way larger correlation of college atheltes who had higher VO2 max tests based on their sport like long distance runners and xc skiers. That has not been the case at a single university as far as I know meaning that if you take someone that is in good shape and healthy - you most likely won't be able to change their VO2 drastically. Just the fact that you have all of these long distance athletes killing themselves aerobically but not having significantly higher VO2 max values compared to other college athletes like football players hurts the idea that it can change much.. still haven't seen any data to point out the contrary just very strong claims. Let's see if in a few years Syds VO2 max is also the exact same. In the lab I worked at seeing significant changes in individuals was unherd of. I'd be curious to hear about the results the coaches in the video have seen.
Obviously there is a genetic component to VO2. There's a genetic component to virtually every marker of athletic performance. We probably all have a ceiling, but most of us probably haven't hit it, so why throw in the towel? Macky was highly trained in 2012 and is highly trained now (he's been racing professionally since 2006) so it makes sense that his wouldn't have changed much (although it's probably worth noting that his absolute VO2 Max did improve 3% despite being in elite shape when he did the test 10 years ago).
As for relative VO2 Max, most people probably have at least a 20# range of "healthy" weight (we certainly do) so depending which side of that range they're on, they could easily edit their relative VO2 Max.
So, yes, it might be true that the ceiling is minimally editable, but the point is that most people can significantly improve their fitness and relative VO2 Max (and possibly the absolute too), especially if they aren't already training at an elite level.
Ooof. Not a fan of no fan 🥵!
It's mostly genetic. Yeah, you can move it a few percentage points, maybe a little more if you are starting from zero.
Yup. Mostly genetic. In my exercise physiology lab this dude that played video games and never exercised got a VO2 max in the low 70s (higher than macky) and doesn't do jack shit with it. Meanwhile some of the D1 women's cross country athletes were all in the 50s lower than some of the male and female hockey players which makes zero sense if it wasn't very genetic. I think lactate threshold and other functions may be just as important like in the case of Eluid Kipchoge not having the greatest VO2 max but still being the greatest marathoner of all time... Out if all of my professors only one had the opinion that VO2 max was easily trained - he also was extremely political and wanted to abolish "gender norms" in athletics. Funny how that works. I'm of the opinion that you cannot raise your own ceiling but you can bring your own house down by smoking - gaining wait and so on and as of now that is what the data seems to point to IMO.
@@henriknilsson1125 My dad was like that. The last training he did was probably in the army at boot camp, but he had an absurd aerobic capacity into his 70's. I got my mom's genes, would be surprised if my VO2 max is over 45.
V02 testing and lactic acid threshold testing is no fun whatsoever.
is it done at hardest gear?
@@farghom Depends on what kind of device or trainer. Usually you stay in the same gear and the resistance is increased in steps like climbing a steeper and steeper hill until failure.
@@Cycle9568 ok ty
Why not do a real lactate test while doing this, makes no sense to just estimate. It's just a prick and the tester is like $300. Lactate clearance capability is the key that should be measured. Not vo2max
You can more or less get a very good indication of your potential based on V02 max. That's your ceiling. Now where is your FTP relative to your V02? That's your fractional utilization. With a V02 around 63-64, I know my max genetic potential is likely around 4.2-4.3 watt/kg, no matter how many hours and years I train.
Not true at all
So Macky is around 4.8 watt/kg?
Correct