My watch's VO2 max estimate helped me to diagnose anemia - the VO2 max was steadily dropping month after month whilst I was training and not ill. Now it wasn't the only indicator that I was anemic, but it definitely helped assess the situation. Once on iron supplements the VO2 max came up by 6 points in 10 weeks. Watch 1, anemia 0.
Isn’t that easy to see that you can’t run as effective as you were able some time ago? That should be pretty obvious to me. Relation of speed to heart rate is what vo2max on your watch all about.
Same, my baseline V02 max dropped 10 points in under 6 months, following a batch of tests I also found I was anemic. Couple of transfusions and iron sups, my V02 max bounced right back. Great vid guys. Loving the chanel👍👍👍
@@ross-morozov In hindsight yes. I struggled to get close to times I was previously running. I guess I didn't put two and two together and needed the extra info from the VO2 max estimate. In my defense - I had only been a runner for about 13 months at the time.
Nice video! - Garmin shows 52 and the lab result shows 49 for her (5.8% difference) and for him Garmin shows 62 and the lab result shows 60 (3.2% difference).
Sorry that’s kinda dumb. While the error is only 5% or so, the significance is huge. Given the difference between 49 and 52 means months of training or potentially just a watch error. VO2 discussion is fun from the Garmin but not a good indicator to accurately predict a red line.
I think they said the woman was sick not long before the test and it might have affected her score. I'm new to all this but my guess is that consistently in the way Garmin calculates the score is what matters to see a trend. Ultimately, I don't let my watch tell me what I can and can't do. I listen to my body first and foremost so there is that.
I hope this comment reaches you guys. Having started running in March, and never having run more than 14k in one go, I have just completed my first ever half marathon. Around the 14k mark I really began to struggle. Then I imagined Anna, Rick and Sarah cheering me on. I could hear your voices in my head (I’ve watched a LOT of your videos in the last few months) encouraging me, and I can’t tell you how much it helped. So thank you - for being brilliant and unknowingly offering support to this 46 year old husband and dad 😊😊😊
Realistically, non-athletes will never do the test even once, forget about doing it regularly. The value of smartwatch estimates is that you can observe them over time and see how what you are doing affects your estimated performance. This not only helps you learn about what works and what doesn't but also serves as a great motivator.
Apple VO2 started at 26 mL/kg/min. After 4 months of lifting, fasting, light treadmill jogs and lots of outdoor walks, the VO2 improved to 29 ! My results are lower due to permanently small and anemic red blood cells caused by thalassemia and my weight. But the trend is positive (especially as I lose more weight)! :)
@@GobbiLuiz yea since my comment months ago, my VO2 is sitting comfy at 33. I can sprint hard no problem but I still gas out past 200m. My 1 mile time improved from 15 mins to ~11 mins. My steady state low intensity walk pace is around 3.7-4 mph nonstop for hours, any higher and I feel the burn haha. Usually anemia results in 25% less aerobic capabilities. My lactic threshold definitely improved since I first started out and I don’t gas out as much as I used to.
Peter Attia defines VO2Max as one of THE most defining features for longevity and “healthspan.” There is a direct correlation with higher VO2Max equals longer lifespan & healthspan! Including significantly reduced risk for heart disease, type 2 diabetes, Alzheimer’s disease, and cancer! Love the video, I love that these watches help encourage us all to increase our relative VO2Max values 💪🏻
These watches now days are incredible. My Fenix 6 helped identify a panic attack by sending me HR alerts and monitoring my stress levels in that moment. I was in Ecuador as well about 9,000 ft and it helped me take it easy with altitude acclimatization and Spo2 readings
I'd love to see heart rate accuracy comparisons across a lot of different watches vs something more accurate, plus some tips on how tight you need your watch to be, to get an accurate reading. It would also be interesting to see how far out it can be if it's not fitted correctly, and in which direction!
@BOGDAN SERBAN Once you see the difference between a strap and wrist based you will never go back. I hate it if I cycle, gym, or run having forgotten my chest strap...!!!
About a month ago I started weight training again after almost a full year of not working out at all. I've done a few runs here and there as warm ups for my weight training and based on those my garmin fenix 6 reports a VO2Max of 52. Knowing this number is probably fairly accurate is highly motivating to keep integrating a run every now and then.
There is a challenging uphill hike in the mountain forest that is about 30 miles round trip and many say can take 8-9 hours. I would like to do it one day, and it's one of the reasons why I want to increase my VO2 max; however, I just started getting into weightlifting again and I am going for full on muscle MASS. Is it possible to increase my VO2 max, without affecting muscle gain?
That was really interesting. I have taken my vo2 max on my garmin from the low 40’s up to 48 as of today. I am aiming to get into the 50’s. This was really interesting!
My wife works at a university where they occasionally test professional hockey players' VO2 Max. Those guys will literally push themselves until they puke, partially as a competition with each other, but also to show how capable they still are professionally
It's so cool seeing Sarah's slow transformation over the course of these videos! I only discovered the channel a couple of years ago (during lockdown 🤣), but have watched quite a bit of the backlog. She looks so different compared to before! And her running is inspirational. Such a great presenter \0/
If your VO2 Max seems low compared to others, don’t worry that much, it’s an estimated value based on probably wrong heart rate zones (but not exclusively). Getting the heart rates zones right is hard. Still it’s a useful metric to monitor your progress. Focus on a balanced training, that should slowly increase this number. For comparison my estimated VO2 Max is 51, I can run a 5 K in 21 minutes and a 10 Km in under 45 minutes; based on VO2 Max alone I shouldn’t be able to run this fast. I’m 49 years old. Anyway it’s good to see that lab results do not differ than much from the estimated values your watches are giving you.
@TJ Thanks for the information. But how does it estimate your lactate threshold with only heart rate? Are you sure your max heart rate is not used at all? I’m not convinced. BTW your VO2 Max number seems mind blowing for me, I’d be very satisfied if I could get to 52 before a race 😀 .
@@Roshan_420 VO2 Max is a measure of your _endurance_ fitness; it is mostly influenced by and related to 5k/10k run-type activities, so - activities lasting say 45mins at mid-high pace; I'd imagine a "gym" would be much more "spiky" in terms of power, and not necessarily generating the ~80% of your max HR bpm's, although that depends on what you do there. Also -- it is hard to generate sufficient load while "walking" in a flat terrain (10% uphill is a different story). So - sure - you can be a great "sprinter", while having lower endurance then most of runners. Just consider your ~max HR and watch if you get in your activities to generate 80% of it for more than half an hour.
Oh I look forward to seeing if my VO2 max increases once I try running on roads. I have almost only been using my watch while running on trails and even orientering through really though terrain. Thanks for the explanation!
In 2022 I was diagnosed with myocarditis. You can see a clear dip in my VO2 max on my Apple Watch during this time and then an increase as I got better. It is definitely a strong indicator as to your current health. VO2 max, heart rate recovery, resting heart rate, sleeping bpm, etc. I had years of cardiovascular data when I saw the heart specialist. Love my watch.
That was awesome. I am interested in doing one of those tests. Sarah will have to give an update through your marathon training on whether your VO2Max changes through the various trading blocks. Great job and fantastic expressions when you reach your limits!!
Glad you enjoyed our latest video Jason. Thats a great suggestion, about seeing how training affects Sarah's V02 Max! We'll have to see what we can do 😊
They talked about trying to improve your personal VO2 Max or keep it steady. It got me thinking: what goals do you set when your best numbers are behind you? Not just VO2 Max, but PBs, maximum distances, etc.
@@EverythingWasGreat Since I posted my comment, I've had some experience with this. I'm recovering from an injury, and I had my first 5k race of the year recently. A PB was completely out of the picture, but it was just as easy to set goals in that race as it has been when a PB was achievable. I knew how fast I was running in training, so I knew what a good pace in the race would be for where I was at. I ran 4 minutes slower than last year's PB, but I wasn't disappointed, since I still hit my "A" goal for the day. As for VO2 Max, I've never really set goals for that. I'm happy if it goes up and disappointed if it goes down, but I just train as well as I can given life's constraints and let the VO2 Max chips fall where they may.
@@jimcrants7517consistency is better than PRs. As long as you are doing what you can, thats all that matters (assuming you aren't a professional athlete)
A previous video where Sarah did everything her watch told her to do inspired me to upgrade my fitness watch and try the same. Unfortunately, things didn't work out that well--following every workout prescribed led to a 3-point drop of my VO2Max score in just 2 weeks according to the Garmin Epix. I then started following my own sprint-based training program which consisted of 7-10, 5-second sprints with 55-second recoveries on Mondays; 4-6, 20-second sprints with 2:40 recoveries on Wednesdays; and 4, 30-second sprints with 4:30 recoveries on Fridays. On Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays, I completed 20-minute, Zone 2 workouts with Sunday as a rest day. After just three weeks, I regained fitness and felt better, faster, and fresher. Exeter University in England and McGill University in Canada are two of the institutions that have studied the benefits of sprinting versus steady state cardio. I think a really interesting video would be for you to take two runners of similar capabilities (like Sarah and Alice) and let one follow a sprint program and another a more traditional one that included Base, Threshold, Tempo, and Recovery runs and see who did better.
dude i can't compare you vo2max on a weekly basis . it al depends where u at in your training block . If u peaking ur watch gonna give a higher number since it based of your latest runs . doing 2 weeks of light running won"t kill ur vo2max but ur watch still gonna tell u it did
Really interesting comparison test guys. I found my VO2 Max score on Garmin got skewed for a while because I had the auto update for heart rate zones on. I had then done a couple of runs using the wrist based HRM which incorrectly ecorded in the 180/90s (I was 49 and these were steady runs). That meant when I raced Garmin was putting me in 59% zone 3 aerobic and 37% zone 4 and thought I was capable of going 3 or 4 mins quicker as I hadn't maxed out as per a false max HR. I manually reset the zones earlier this year and the same race was 87% zone 4 and my predicted race times in line with what I've done this year. The V02 Max score does move around a bit with different types of runs and some interval sessions seem to have a negative impact but using manual HR zones it's a much narrower range.
If I remember correctly, most watches that estimate VO2 max are based on compiled tables of data recorded by others, attempting to take into account age, weight, heart rate, speed and distance.
The tables and regressions to fit the curves are largely the same, but I think the measurements that the watches can gather has gotten way more precise over the recent years. Plus I think the age adjustments are kept as IP secrets by Garmin and Polar.
@@Growlizing thats what i meant by "models" for the watches, not for statistics. And they definitely keep some things in house otherwise the market would be even more saturated with things that make a small impact on health parameters
Fun to find this channel. I am training for my first marathon and in the run up I had a lab test done last Friday. It’s harder then it looks and the mask is really uncomfortable, air gets dry. But the results for my age were actually really good. Also had a slight difference in VO2 max score. My Garmin instinct 2 solar says 49 but the lab-test came back at 51,5.
Yet another great video. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has learnt a lot from this and indeed all of your videos. My VO2 max has gone up from 30 to 37 and I'm hoping it will continue to climb as my journey continues. Thanks again for your continued inspiration 😃 🏃♂️
hey just curious on your overall health/fitness. Is your VO2 max from your smartwatch? Are you overweight/unhealthy? I've only recorded mine from my apple watch but want to get a real test. I'm 41 and it's low to mid 50s. But it seems like that's not trusted.
@@cwr8618 hi there. I'm 53 non smoker. 56lbs over weight. Not exercised since 1997 until last June then also nothing from November until May this year. My VO2 max is from my Garmin watch.
@@cwr8618 out in 2017. I now rock climb and occationally run. But I've been doing social rec league soccer and volley ball for the last like 4 or 5 years. Also I do savage races (2 so far), did a spartan stadium like last year, and the odd 5k here and there. And those readings are evidently current Bc I got a forerunner 235 like 5 years ago too
Fantastic video. Now I know I can trust my Garmin VO2Max numbers and it's not rubbish like some people said. Next up - the lactate threshold test. Tqvm.
@@runningchannel could you do a video with a runner that is overweight and how running is different than for fit runners? I lost 20kg in 2 years, started running, 2 years later I am training for a semi-marathon but I can't find overweight runners video. And I noticed that I had to adapt the training plan a lot, so I don't really have enough info. I now run by hear rate and I check V02 max.
My VO2 Max according to Garmin is 39. I'm just starting out and hope to make continuous improvement. I've done a total of less than ten runs and today for the first time I felt somewhat comfortable with my pace. As an amateur all that matters to me is consistency so if Garmin can provide that in their metrics then that's all I need.
Thank you for going into detail about this topic. My Garmin Connect app has calculated that my VO2 max is 56, which it says is in the top 5% of all males in my age group. I'm a 36 year old endurance cyclist that has been riding a little less than three years. I hadn't paid much attention to this metric until recently - Pretty exciting stuff!
Great analysis thanks. We’ve been pondering this for a while, the accuracy of our Garmin’s Vo2 max, (745 and 945). My wife and I are both 60 and have Vo2 max of 36 and 39 respectively (she’s clearly fitter). She is a sculler and I a kayaker and wondered if the watches, as running devices, were capturing it all accurately. I like your comment on relativity. Many thanks.
Interesting topic for a video. The only thing I'd expand upon is what vo2max means practically. It's not so much about endurance but your genetically limited pace spectrum. Anyone can train their aerobic system to endure running a marathon distance. How fast you'll be able to run that marathon however, is dictated by your vo2max - and your vo2max is highly genetic and not something you can usually alter beyond 10-20% from what I've gathered. In other words a person with a genetic vo2max of around 50 is unlikely to reach much higher than 60, and the speeds it implies, through training. And of course this gets worse with age.
Had my test run today at Loughborough. Good fun and great guys working there. Looking forward to their report in a couple of days, for me I think lactate threshold is probably the more useful metric
Excellent video! I have wondered about how accurate my VO2 Max was on my Garmin. Good to know that it is reasonably accurate. Thanks for doing this test and video.
I didn't know the garmin had a trail run option! I've been neutering my scores by recording them as runs! I also think there's a big difference for me on the cross trainer vs running. I'm way fitter on the cross trainer as I can train daily on it
Trail Run on garmin has some limitations. It won't calculate some metrics that you get with the "run" mode. If you rarely run trails then it will be statistically outside the scope, which throws off averages. If you primarily run trails then your baseline data will be trail based, so you should use "run" even if you mostly run trails. I'm mostly a mountain/trail runner and i only use "run" mode on my fenix because all my stats are based off trail running. If you primarily run on road then you should use "trail run" when you do trails so it doesn't tank your stats. I want my vo2 based off trails so i use the "run" mode for all my runs.
I was pleasantly surprised at the accuracy of the watches! I was expecting a deviation of 15-20%, expecting only a VERY rough idea, and never took my watch VO2 max very seriously. As long as it was going up that's all I really cared about. That's awesome to learn it's generally within about 5% accuracy!
It's interesting how close the watches predicted the VO2 max number. I also find it interesting how quickly my VO2 max number will change (though not drastically) up or down week over week depending on my training. Great video!
After 2.5 months of running, my VO2 max measured by my Apple Watch improved from 38 to 48! It's really an exciting figure that motivates my daily exercises. I'm now on my way to the 50s!
In the lead up to this year's Edinburgh marathon (end of May) my VO2 Max was 56. I caught covid immediately after the race and over the next month my VO2 Max dropped to 53. I was noticeably suffering with excessive fatigue for 6-7 weeks but now I'm back to normal training. I feel like my fitness is improving gradually but my HR is still slightly higher than pre-marathon for comparable efforts and my VO2 Max is stuck on 53. This may be a true reflection of my current fitness level but I do wonder what effect the summer heat is having on my VO2 Max score (excessive heat will effect HR which my Garmin will use, along with pace, to work out the VO2 Max score). When I was training for Edinburgh the temperatures were typically in the low teens, not the low 20s!
in addition to trails and hills, which they mention, mine can change a few points based on temperatures or if I go to sea level (normally train at 1300m+). It also seems like hard and short efforts increases my watch estimate. After a 100k my watch thought I was in bad shape because the last 20k was at a slow pace but my HR was way high. Oh yeah, it changes a lot if I run hungover or sick.
It's definitely true that if she was still a little bit in recovery from being sick that she could have a higher VO2 Max than what she tested at. But it is not the case that giving a little more at the end would cause the difference. You reach your VO2 max well before maximal effort. It is a plateau that happens over the course of the test. You should check out the graphs if they gave you all those details. It's pretty cool to see the VO2 plateau and then actually drop off as you entire the anaerobic zones of running. It can help you get a very accurate idea of your paces at each aerobic Zone and find your true Zone 2 pace for instance.
mine has dropped from 39 when I bought the watch down to 31 after covid. I am back up to 34 on my watch. The highest I have heard of is ultra marathon runner Matt Carpenter. 90.6. Tested in Colorado Springs in 1990 after winning the Pikes Peak Marathon.
What a fantastic and informative video! I've often pondered doing a lab test, not because I'm in any way an athlete, but more for geeky curiosity. So interesting to see just how close the lab scores are to the watch, might just upgrade my watch and leave the lab for the proper runners!
@@runningchannel Not sure! I've got a 245 which I like, but I haven't been very impressed with the training suggestions, and now would like something with more tech and music options. Loved Andy's recent video looks at the new options, so might ponder it. Wish there was a way to pass my old one on to someone though, feels like a waste to have it sitting in a draw!
I find it's quite amazing that the Garmin Vo2 Max estimation is so close to a lab test. I mean come on, it's just a GPS, heart rate belt and watt pedals for me and this thing's smashing its estimation. What a time to be alive.
I've had my own official VO2 measurement done and it showed 42,1. My Garmin claims it to be 45, and I deem that pretty good. I am currently also only using Venu 2. Good job team at Garmin! Looking forward to upgrading my watch to Epix some time soon. :)
Great info. Always wonder about the accuracy of my Garmin VO score ..the key for me is to maintain it and try to improve ..don’t really care if the score is a bit off ...
I am using my smartwatch as a monitor for vitals. Set to alert my wife if stats become abnormal. After several bouts of lung collapses, surgery on both lungs (which helped temporarily but am now on the transplant list), having a blockage in my heart especially while under stress or exertion the watch gives a sort of reassurance that i won't end up by myself somewhere unable to call for help.
It’s interesting how much easier it is to obtain metrics in cycling with power meters, which then let you set your training zones fairly accurately. Measured threshold in a lab is very comparable to that measured during a ramp test on a bike. As a former runner I would hope the technology is getting better for running.
As an engineer working on workout data, the biggest issue I've seen is that it's difficult to get efficiency data when running. Because the watch is only aware of what's happening inside your body (and a tiny glimpse out such as cadence), it's damn near impossible to tell how efficient someone's running stride is which greatly effects metrics
@@Shadogi Agree, I’m also an engineer. It’s going to take more technology than a watch, maybe ‘smart sneakers’? I also see those continuos glucose monitors that cycling just banned from racing as technology that could help.
I agree that whatever the accuracy of the figure on your watch, if it’s moving up then you’re making progress. But you can make it more accurate if you do the actual VO2 test that the watch has built into it. I did that and it’s pretty tough. Have Sarah or Andy done that. I’d like to see a video of that and what the results are.
I understand the vo2 max relies a lot on accurate weight being entered. I could be wrong though, I'm far from an expert. I'd generally believe the watch though.
Interesting and helpful information, thanks! Last year, I was inspired to train for my first half- marathon; I watched a lot of your channel for pointers, and was particularly interested when Sarah noted that her marathon training had significantly raised her vo2 max. One year later, I have gone from 37 to 49vo2 max( Garmin)! But also, like Sarah, I am now recovering from an injury so will note the 3ffect, as you state. Question: does age affect the vo2 max- Andy hinted at this, and as an older athlete myself I am thrilled with my results but wonder if there is a threshold. Also, keeping an eye on this, and a few other Garmin stats like pulse ox, are great indicators of general health conditions ( noting any significant changes). Keep it up, guys!
Thats an amazing improvement on your V02 Max, Allison! Sorry to hear about your injury and hope you are recovering well 😊 Age can affect V02 Max and tends to decline as we get older
@@username849 I started running more, training for a half marathon vs previously less and shorter runs; this was over a year during the pandemic when the pools closed, so I focussed a lot on outdoor fitness, also continuing with cycling and tons of walking. My vo2 max jumped in the process. Keep going!
thanks for this video, I never really used my garmin watch's vo2 max in my training eventho its a very handy feature but because I just never really trusted a smartwatch's vo2 data but this video actually changed my mind. It's definitely not 100% accurate or anything like that but for such a straight forward and simple equipment, its really not bad at all and I might just start referring to the data more in the future to track my training
Despite Andy’s comment that he was “making it look like hard work’, I overriding thought was that both of your ran very efficiently - It looked really smooth!
I'm still learning to use my Garmin watch. 😂 To be honest I haven't thought of VO2 much before this video. My watch is saying "47 and not bad for 50-59" Should I be happy with that or can I improve still? Informative video 👍👍
@@fastinradfordable I've not been running for long, I haven't had my watch long. I'm still learning about running and the watch too. No need to be mean towards me.
@@JimmysGarden Actually I think he was being encouraging. What he is saying is "you are at the very start of all of it so of course you can improve!!" Great news all round. Enjoy your watch, but get a chest strap - far more accurate.!!!
I've been running my whole life but over the last 15 years, my hear rate explodes with the easiest run. I just started reteaching myself proper breathing techniques while running and while I feel like I'm drowning the whole run, my heart rate no longer goes straight to 185. VO2 max has stayed fairly constant (watch) at 40.1.
Keep up the good work! Be aware, however, that the wrist optical HR sensors are prone to "cadence lock" especially in the first few minutes, which causes the readings to erroneously approximate 180 right off the bat. That could explain your readings (instead of being out of shape) if you aren't already using a chest or armband HR monitor. Those erroneous readings will greatly diminish the VO2 Max estimates.
I started exercising (using my Apple Watch) for approximately 3 months now. In the last two months, I've reached 1000 calories burnt every day. I used to take two tennis lessons per week, but since last week it's up to 3 weeks. I've lost 1.8 kilograms in the last month and lost 1.2% of body fat in the last month, having currently 20.4% of fat. I've noticed also that my fitness has improved dramatically. Whereas before if I ran for an X amount of time I would have to stop soon and recover, I can now do the same amount for a much longer time and keep on walking. However, my VO2 Max level according to my Apple Watch is astoshingly low (22!) and it has stayed that way for almost all the time the watch has recorded it. Actually, BEFORE starting my tennis classes it was 24! I'm trying and trying to make it go up and it won't budge. I'd really appreciate it if you gave me your opinion.
I have a terrible V02 max at 26 im 56 years old and running in this years GNR can run for 7 miles without stopping but now realising i will be slower. Last training run I was in zone 4 and temp was 26 degrees.
I have a Gamin Forerunner and it shows my VO2 max 48. I´m 40 yrs young and don´t exercise as much as I would like to, so it´s nice to know that it is not that far off. I think I will try to break the 50 mark someday!
I find Firstbeat's VO2Max value to be another Garmin metric that sounds like it would be great to have, and a value that is probably statistically close, but whose actual value is too incorrect to be useful for my training. Throughout the time I've been wearing a Garmin watch, it has been telling me I have VO2Max of 39. I think I remember it briefly dropping to 38, and also think I remember it briefly hitting 40 (both times I think there was a watch software upgrade of some kind), but the watch has overwhelmingly displayed 39 ("Good") for about 18 months. In August 2021, after about 6 months of run/walk training, I did a legitimate treadmill test that showed VO2Max was 35.7, while a subsequent test on the same Korr machinery in July 2022 measured me at 43.7. I've been training pretty hard through the 11-month period, so the change is almost certainly directionally correct. For someone in their mid-60s and about 180 lbs, Firstbeat's algorithm seems incapable of showing me that there had been any improvement at all. It overstated truth for some number of months, and has been understating truth in recent times, and has never offered any suggestion that I had been making progress. I'll let the reader decide how well an unchanging 39 score reflects what the Korr machine reported, but I consider the Garmin VO2 Max metric to be useless to me. If you're looking for another metric to subject to some scientific scrutiny, I'd love to see somebody dig into HRV (Heart Rate Variability), using RMSSD. The metric definition sounds fantastically useful for training, but like VO2Max, I'm not so sure Firstbeat's computations produce reliably valuable numbers, at least for my age, etc. I did some amateur sleuthing on the SDRR metric available from my Garmin watch, and some experts argue that such a metric needs a substantially longer time sample period than the 2-minute collection done by the watch.
I’d be curious to know if the cycling vo2 is close as well. My Garmin’s been sitting between 71-74 for a few months now and that’s probably more than a little optimistic
Great and Interesting video. Though I think it is a shame it was only tested with one make/model of watch. It would have been interested to see how different products compare in the accuracy of their algorithms
Awesome video, thank you so much! I am 56y., running 50-80k per week with a Garmin (Epix2) VO2max of 51. always wondered how accurate the reading was but have to say it served me very well as a general indictor over the last 2 years. Did a professional performance diagnosis like you did and came out at 49, so it seems - though we only have 3 samples yet - that Garmin‘s VO2max seems to be 2-3 ml/kg off/above true value in our cases. Typical exaggeration by Garmin as with the Power (Watts) indicator. Fine for general training
@BOGDAN SERBAN How old are you and how heavy? I‘m sure you understand how VO2max changes with these values? As I said, I am 56y. That gets me in the top 5% in my age group, which is okay for me.
Watched video (great) checked my Vo2max. 49, which initially disappointed but Garmin said this was 'superior'. Checked a table and it doesn't go that high for someone my age (71) so going for my afternoon nap happy.
Also, I think it’s a brilliant insight into one of the aspects that makes an Olympian/elite athlete different from the average or even above average person - the willingness and ability to suffer and endure pain further than the average. Plus genetics and dedication and sacrifice too of course!
Great video as always! I already use vo2max for my training. But since I got my Fenix 7 there's also the HRV prediction. Would be great if you could make a video about that! Cheers
As important as VO2 max is velocity at V02 max, or vVO2 max. You can keep the same maximum oxygen uptake, VO2, but get faster at that oxygen uptake through increases in running economy/form, better neuro-musculature and strength, etc. This can be especially true if you are doing technical or steep trails where form differs and economy is paramount, or if you haven't done much form/drills/strides in the past. You may be very close to optimized for your genetics in aerobic development, or at least have all the easy gains taken care of from base building, but you can still get faster at that VO2 max.
anyway, fun video. thanks. Interesting to see. I wonder if a watch would ever underestimate your max for some athletes/conditions, or if the heart rate method always overestimates by ~5%.
I do keep track of my VO2 Max on my watch, as you say in your summing up, it gives me a measure to track my improvement over time as much as anything else. Interesting to see that our watches are reasonably accurate 👍 ( loved that Rick, like a true athlete, was broken on the treadmill but still stopped his watch! 😆)
I am a 60 year old triathlete and my Garmin says my overall VO2 Max is 51 and for cycling it is 58. My coach told me to disregard the number on Garmin due to accuracy. In this case I am happy to know that it may be close, just don't tell my coach I looked 🙂
I tend to ignore the vo2 max on my watch, it always drops when i do easy recovery runs and rises with harder fast runs. Watch suggests recovery run but then tells me I'm losing fitness when i do them 🤷 i do keep meaning to do a lab test though
Just don't wear a watch when you do recovery. Don't need it. It's not because you have a watch that you have to use it everytime. Use it when that matters and when u push yourself. It's important to learn to feel yourself alone.
This is kind of similar to our findings, but it really depends how avidly the athlete uses their watch. The more good quality data you feed the watch the better the estimate is. Seems to take about a month to establish.
I always wondered just how accurate the VO2 Max readings on my Garmin watch were; I guess pretty decent! At age 61, my VO2 Max is 44.5 and my average resting heart rate is 48. I swim 1500 meters three times a week, followed by 750 meters of maximal effort sprints, split into 50's and 100's. I also Mountain Bike a couple times a week. On my Mountain Bike rides, I can still hit 195 bpm, in the pool I never get above 175 bpm.
thanks for doing this guys! I have always been so confused with the garmin data... have been training quite intensively for the past years and seeing my VO2 max dropping constantly from 54 that have been stuck for quite sometime to 52 led me to a lab test! to my surprise I ended up with a 66 value instead! not to mention apple ultra has never been over 47...I had a good lesson learned there😅
A VO2 max of 66 and 71 is elite. Unfortunately, I know first-hand from multiple lab tests that they can be way off too depending on the skill of the technician along with many other factors. If your best 5K time is closer to 21 minutes than 15 minutes, it's much more likely your watch's estimate of 47-52 is more accurate than the lab's.
Personally I’ve found that my Garmin has been reporting a very stable estimate of my VO2 max for about a year now. It’s gone from around 53 up to 55, while in the meantime I went from almost no regular cardio (weight lifting only) to running a half marathon, and back down to regular, but lower mileage, runs.
Great timing with the video popping up as I’d just been starting to pay more attention to the VO2 max number on my Apple Watch and wondering how accurate it may or may not be.
Great video, thanks. Nice to know our watches are "accurate enough". I'm really keen to hear how close your MaxHR zones were after blood tests. I wonder whether one of the areas we fail to reach potential as amateurs, is basing our training on HR zones that may be metabolically incorrect, because we just out our estimated MaxHR in and trust the zones that the watch spits out.
Interesting to watch. I've conducted over 5000 VO2 assessment protocols with everyone from pro athletes to de-conditioned members of the general public. Remember that 'VO2max' is an index relative to body weight (absolute VO2 in Lts/min divided by wt in kgs) therefore the easiest way in which it can change, up or down, is to loose or gain weight! Ranking tables are also gender and age specific. These are important aspects of the conversation you didn't really cover. Good to be bringing more science to the party though, thank you.
I was on the same floor as john holloszy group at WashU. From my eavesdropping I gathered that even in the best situation that VO2 max measurements varied and systematically when measured by different people within the same group. Given this variation in the standard (O2 consumption) and VO2 max paralleling power output, these segates likely serve most people, especially if precision over time is most important than accuracy.
Switched watches and my V02 Max immediately went down by about 2 and it has mot moved in Months. Just over 2 months into my marathon programme I was starting to doubt it because I would have expected it to go up, and it finally did, by 1, yesterday
Surely you need to be wearing a chest strap for better results over time rather than optical HR data? My VO2 goes up when I'm in recovery (Doing a marathon training plan) I don't really use VO2 but more lactate threshold for my running now.
It's worth noting from the Garmin/First beat white papers on the topic, that the accuracy of the VO2MAX estimate drops from within 5% to within 9% if you don't have an accurate estimate of your personal HRMax also. (Another painful test).
I am an exercise physiologist with my own gas analyzer. Sometimes the difference between watch an real vo2max is huge. In one case it was 28 (watch) vs 44 (real)
Andy and Sarah, have you noticed if the 955 VO2Max changes more slowly than on the previous watches? It seems to not change up or down despite significant improvement in speeds for a 5k with the same or lower heart rate.
Started running again after 20+ year's of good living. My VO2 Max stabilised at 41 in February , slowly increasing & reading 44. I'm 53 and not particularly fit ex smoker, with a huge amount of metalwork in my left leg, hip & pelvis. I've only ever used this as an indication, but thought it would be much further out than your tests have proved.
Hi Guys! At 9:20 min you mentioned the differences in VO2max on a "flat road" as well as "trail running". Is there a study or a paper (published evidence) that can proof that theory? If yes, who published it? You´re doing a great job, keep it going!
Always enjoy the videos you do like this, thanks for getting in the lab 😊! I would be super interested to know how accurate the watches Lactic Threshold is as well. And another great video would be to do a training block after the lab test to see if you can raise your lactate threshold. Then go back and have it measured again.
I run with an Apple Watch it’s currently reporting my VO2 Max at 57.7. I also ran proper VO2Max test recently but only got 53.1 so believe the watch is over estimating.
What do your 5k and 10k times more correlate with? I assume the 53.1 as that's lab-tested, but generally, if a watch says you have a VO2 max of 60, and you run 22 mins for the 5k, you know it's probably an over-estimate unless there's some really abysmal running economy going on.
My apple watch says a VO2 max of 60, and my Garmin 67 (5k 17:34, 10k 36:13) so apple watch seems more accurate (if a little high), and Garmin is WAY off.
Do you use VO2 Max on your smartwatch? Are you going to use VO2 max in training more after watching this video? Let us know in the comments!!
Interesting, My garmin watch says I’m 62 and I’m 48
@@ThatRunningGuy Race Andy 😉
@@Stevenc1984😂 he’d leave me in his dust
Do a handicapped race based on your relative Parkrun PBs 👍
@@Stevenc1984 🤔
My watch's VO2 max estimate helped me to diagnose anemia - the VO2 max was steadily dropping month after month whilst I was training and not ill. Now it wasn't the only indicator that I was anemic, but it definitely helped assess the situation. Once on iron supplements the VO2 max came up by 6 points in 10 weeks. Watch 1, anemia 0.
Thats really interesting Marcus! 😃 Hope your feeling better and glad you enjoyed the video
Wow!
Isn’t that easy to see that you can’t run as effective as you were able some time ago?
That should be pretty obvious to me.
Relation of speed to heart rate is what vo2max on your watch all about.
Same, my baseline V02 max dropped 10 points in under 6 months, following a batch of tests I also found I was anemic. Couple of transfusions and iron sups, my V02 max bounced right back. Great vid guys. Loving the chanel👍👍👍
@@ross-morozov In hindsight yes. I struggled to get close to times I was previously running. I guess I didn't put two and two together and needed the extra info from the VO2 max estimate. In my defense - I had only been a runner for about 13 months at the time.
Nice video! - Garmin shows 52 and the lab result shows 49 for her (5.8% difference) and for him Garmin shows 62 and the lab result shows 60 (3.2% difference).
thanks a lot for this, I didn't need a 13min video, just this comment
Does anyone know which Garmin watch they used for the video
@@kunv07forerunner 55 or 45 i think
Sorry that’s kinda dumb. While the error is only 5% or so, the significance is huge. Given the difference between 49 and 52 means months of training or potentially just a watch error. VO2 discussion is fun from the Garmin but not a good indicator to accurately predict a red line.
I think they said the woman was sick not long before the test and it might have affected her score. I'm new to all this but my guess is that consistently in the way Garmin calculates the score is what matters to see a trend. Ultimately, I don't let my watch tell me what I can and can't do. I listen to my body first and foremost so there is that.
I hope this comment reaches you guys. Having started running in March, and never having run more than 14k in one go, I have just completed my first ever half marathon. Around the 14k mark I really began to struggle. Then I imagined Anna, Rick and Sarah cheering me on. I could hear your voices in my head (I’ve watched a LOT of your videos in the last few months) encouraging me, and I can’t tell you how much it helped. So thank you - for being brilliant and unknowingly offering support to this 46 year old husband and dad 😊😊😊
And Kate and Andy 😊
Realistically, non-athletes will never do the test even once, forget about doing it regularly. The value of smartwatch estimates is that you can observe them over time and see how what you are doing affects your estimated performance. This not only helps you learn about what works and what doesn't but also serves as a great motivator.
Apple VO2 started at 26 mL/kg/min. After 4 months of lifting, fasting, light treadmill jogs and lots of outdoor walks, the VO2 improved to 29 ! My results are lower due to permanently small and anemic red blood cells caused by thalassemia and my weight. But the trend is positive (especially as I lose more weight)! :)
keep up the good work!
Freaking awesome!! Keep it going!! 👍🏾🙌🏽🔥
Are you able to do runs and long exercises? I wonder how thalassemia affects breathing capabilities
@@GobbiLuiz yea since my comment months ago, my VO2 is sitting comfy at 33. I can sprint hard no problem but I still gas out past 200m. My 1 mile time improved from 15 mins to ~11 mins. My steady state low intensity walk pace is around 3.7-4 mph nonstop for hours, any higher and I feel the burn haha. Usually anemia results in 25% less aerobic capabilities. My lactic threshold definitely improved since I first started out and I don’t gas out as much as I used to.
Way to go!!
Peter Attia defines VO2Max as one of THE most defining features for longevity and “healthspan.”
There is a direct correlation with higher VO2Max equals longer lifespan & healthspan! Including significantly reduced risk for heart disease, type 2 diabetes, Alzheimer’s disease, and cancer!
Love the video, I love that these watches help encourage us all to increase our relative VO2Max values 💪🏻
These watches now days are incredible. My Fenix 6 helped identify a panic attack by sending me HR alerts and monitoring my stress levels in that moment. I was in Ecuador as well about 9,000 ft and it helped me take it easy with altitude acclimatization and Spo2 readings
Thank you for testing the accuracy of VO2 Max on Garmin! Any chance to repeat this for other brands also (Apple Watch, Fitbit, Polar, Whoop)?
Indeed, just need to wait till they sponsor a video and you can be sure the results will be super close!
where does it say they were using a garmin? and which model?
I'd love to see heart rate accuracy comparisons across a lot of different watches vs something more accurate, plus some tips on how tight you need your watch to be, to get an accurate reading. It would also be interesting to see how far out it can be if it's not fitted correctly, and in which direction!
Great suggestion, thanks Pippa! We'll have to see what we can do 😊
The Quantified Scientist channel should have exactly what you're looking for and more
@BOGDAN SERBAN Once you see the difference between a strap and wrist based you will never go back. I hate it if I cycle, gym, or run having forgotten my chest strap...!!!
Notoriously wrist based HR is extremely accurate during rest, sitting and sleep.
And extremely inaccurate during exercise
@@TheNisms what you said is accurate for my Fitbit charge 2
About a month ago I started weight training again after almost a full year of not working out at all. I've done a few runs here and there as warm ups for my weight training and based on those my garmin fenix 6 reports a VO2Max of 52. Knowing this number is probably fairly accurate is highly motivating to keep integrating a run every now and then.
There is a challenging uphill hike in the mountain forest that is about 30 miles round trip and many say can take 8-9 hours. I would like to do it one day, and it's one of the reasons why I want to increase my VO2 max; however, I just started getting into weightlifting again and I am going for full on muscle MASS. Is it possible to increase my VO2 max, without affecting muscle gain?
That was really interesting. I have taken my vo2 max on my garmin from the low 40’s up to 48 as of today. I am aiming to get into the 50’s. This was really interesting!
Which brand Garmin do you use, which brand do you think we should get?
My wife works at a university where they occasionally test professional hockey players' VO2 Max. Those guys will literally push themselves until they puke, partially as a competition with each other, but also to show how capable they still are professionally
Pros are just unhinged. Olympic level rowing are the same, pushing so hard they pass out on the ergo. They're not normal.
It's so cool seeing Sarah's slow transformation over the course of these videos! I only discovered the channel a couple of years ago (during lockdown 🤣), but have watched quite a bit of the backlog. She looks so different compared to before! And her running is inspirational. Such a great presenter \0/
Whats your point???? Do you understand the question asked
@@truth-Hurts375 Turns out people lose weight and get fitter when they run more. Whodovthunkit
If your VO2 Max seems low compared to others, don’t worry that much, it’s an estimated value based on probably wrong heart rate zones (but not exclusively). Getting the heart rates zones right is hard. Still it’s a useful metric to monitor your progress. Focus on a balanced training, that should slowly increase this number. For comparison my estimated VO2 Max is 51, I can run a 5 K in 21 minutes and a 10 Km in under 45 minutes; based on VO2 Max alone I shouldn’t be able to run this fast. I’m 49 years old.
Anyway it’s good to see that lab results do not differ than much from the estimated values your watches are giving you.
What do you mean? You only need like 44 to run a 22 min 5 k.
My apple watch says my vo2 is 38.6 and im very active, 30km hikes, lots of gym, standing all day etc
@TJ Thanks for the information. But how does it estimate your lactate threshold with only heart rate? Are you sure your max heart rate is not used at all? I’m not convinced. BTW your VO2 Max number seems mind blowing for me, I’d be very satisfied if I could get to 52 before a race 😀 .
@BOGDAN SERBAN why does it day “below average” tho does that mean everyone is even more active than me 😭
@@Roshan_420 VO2 Max is a measure of your _endurance_ fitness; it is mostly influenced by and related to 5k/10k run-type activities, so - activities lasting say 45mins at mid-high pace; I'd imagine a "gym" would be much more "spiky" in terms of power, and not necessarily generating the ~80% of your max HR bpm's, although that depends on what you do there. Also -- it is hard to generate sufficient load while "walking" in a flat terrain (10% uphill is a different story). So - sure - you can be a great "sprinter", while having lower endurance then most of runners. Just consider your ~max HR and watch if you get in your activities to generate 80% of it for more than half an hour.
Oh I look forward to seeing if my VO2 max increases once I try running on roads. I have almost only been using my watch while running on trails and even orientering through really though terrain. Thanks for the explanation!
Glad you enjoyed the video and good luck with your road running! 😃 How much would you like you VO2 max to increase by?
In 2022 I was diagnosed with myocarditis. You can see a clear dip in my VO2 max on my Apple Watch during this time and then an increase as I got better. It is definitely a strong indicator as to your current health. VO2 max, heart rate recovery, resting heart rate, sleeping bpm, etc. I had years of cardiovascular data when I saw the heart specialist. Love my watch.
That was awesome. I am interested in doing one of those tests. Sarah will have to give an update through your marathon training on whether your VO2Max changes through the various trading blocks. Great job and fantastic expressions when you reach your limits!!
Glad you enjoyed our latest video Jason. Thats a great suggestion, about seeing how training affects Sarah's V02 Max! We'll have to see what we can do 😊
They talked about trying to improve your personal VO2 Max or keep it steady. It got me thinking: what goals do you set when your best numbers are behind you? Not just VO2 Max, but PBs, maximum distances, etc.
Maintaining, and if that is not possible, slowing down the decline.
@@EverythingWasGreat Since I posted my comment, I've had some experience with this. I'm recovering from an injury, and I had my first 5k race of the year recently. A PB was completely out of the picture, but it was just as easy to set goals in that race as it has been when a PB was achievable. I knew how fast I was running in training, so I knew what a good pace in the race would be for where I was at. I ran 4 minutes slower than last year's PB, but I wasn't disappointed, since I still hit my "A" goal for the day.
As for VO2 Max, I've never really set goals for that. I'm happy if it goes up and disappointed if it goes down, but I just train as well as I can given life's constraints and let the VO2 Max chips fall where they may.
@@jimcrants7517consistency is better than PRs. As long as you are doing what you can, thats all that matters (assuming you aren't a professional athlete)
A previous video where Sarah did everything her watch told her to do inspired me to upgrade my fitness watch and try the same. Unfortunately, things didn't work out that well--following every workout prescribed led to a 3-point drop of my VO2Max score in just 2 weeks according to the Garmin Epix. I then started following my own sprint-based training program which consisted of 7-10, 5-second sprints with 55-second recoveries on Mondays; 4-6, 20-second sprints with 2:40 recoveries on Wednesdays; and 4, 30-second sprints with 4:30 recoveries on Fridays. On Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays, I completed 20-minute, Zone 2 workouts with Sunday as a rest day. After just three weeks, I regained fitness and felt better, faster, and fresher. Exeter University in England and McGill University in Canada are two of the institutions that have studied the benefits of sprinting versus steady state cardio. I think a really interesting video would be for you to take two runners of similar capabilities (like Sarah and Alice) and let one follow a sprint program and another a more traditional one that included Base, Threshold, Tempo, and Recovery runs and see who did better.
dude i can't compare you vo2max on a weekly basis . it al depends where u at in your training block . If u peaking ur watch gonna give a higher number since it based of your latest runs . doing 2 weeks of light running won"t kill ur vo2max but ur watch still gonna tell u it did
Really interesting comparison test guys. I found my VO2 Max score on Garmin got skewed for a while because I had the auto update for heart rate zones on. I had then done a couple of runs using the wrist based HRM which incorrectly ecorded in the 180/90s (I was 49 and these were steady runs).
That meant when I raced Garmin was putting me in 59% zone 3 aerobic and 37% zone 4 and thought I was capable of going 3 or 4 mins quicker as I hadn't maxed out as per a false max HR. I manually reset the zones earlier this year and the same race was 87% zone 4 and my predicted race times in line with what I've done this year.
The V02 Max score does move around a bit with different types of runs and some interval sessions seem to have a negative impact but using manual HR zones it's a much narrower range.
If I remember correctly, most watches that estimate VO2 max are based on compiled tables of data recorded by others, attempting to take into account age, weight, heart rate, speed and distance.
Yes, they use estimates. However, their validity has improved over the years, so the newer ones are far better than older models
The tables and regressions to fit the curves are largely the same, but I think the measurements that the watches can gather has gotten way more precise over the recent years. Plus I think the age adjustments are kept as IP secrets by Garmin and Polar.
@@Growlizing thats what i meant by "models" for the watches, not for statistics. And they definitely keep some things in house otherwise the market would be even more saturated with things that make a small impact on health parameters
Its about the same way an AI predict things so, it is probably quite accurate if you have a large dataset
Fun to find this channel. I am training for my first marathon and in the run up I had a lab test done last Friday. It’s harder then it looks and the mask is really uncomfortable, air gets dry. But the results for my age were actually really good. Also had a slight difference in VO2 max score. My Garmin instinct 2 solar says 49 but the lab-test came back at 51,5.
Yet another great video. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has learnt a lot from this and indeed all of your videos. My VO2 max has gone up from 30 to 37 and I'm hoping it will continue to climb as my journey continues. Thanks again for your continued inspiration 😃 🏃♂️
hey just curious on your overall health/fitness. Is your VO2 max from your smartwatch? Are you overweight/unhealthy? I've only recorded mine from my apple watch but want to get a real test. I'm 41 and it's low to mid 50s. But it seems like that's not trusted.
@@cwr8618 hi there. I'm 53 non smoker. 56lbs over weight. Not exercised since 1997 until last June then also nothing from November until May this year. My VO2 max is from my Garmin watch.
@@ianaugustus5648 oh no. Not me at 32, fit-ish, was in the Army for 4 years 5'4 and 160lbs with a VO2 max reading at like 32 or 37 😅
@@hypeflexington7081 how long ago were you in the army and when were those readings taken? what have you been doing fitness wise, since then?
@@cwr8618 out in 2017. I now rock climb and occationally run. But I've been doing social rec league soccer and volley ball for the last like 4 or 5 years. Also I do savage races (2 so far), did a spartan stadium like last year, and the odd 5k here and there.
And those readings are evidently current Bc I got a forerunner 235 like 5 years ago too
Fantastic video. Now I know I can trust my Garmin VO2Max numbers and it's not rubbish like some people said. Next up - the lactate threshold test. Tqvm.
Probably the most helpful, insightful, video I have seen in a while. Thank you to TRC
Glad you enjoyed it! Would you like to see more videos like this? 😃
@@runningchannel yes. All these smart features and no idea how to use them or if they are truly accurate..
@@runningchannel could you do a video with a runner that is overweight and how running is different than for fit runners? I lost 20kg in 2 years, started running, 2 years later I am training for a semi-marathon but I can't find overweight runners video. And I noticed that I had to adapt the training plan a lot, so I don't really have enough info. I now run by hear rate and I check V02 max.
My VO2 Max according to Garmin is 39. I'm just starting out and hope to make continuous improvement. I've done a total of less than ten runs and today for the first time I felt somewhat comfortable with my pace. As an amateur all that matters to me is consistency so if Garmin can provide that in their metrics then that's all I need.
Thank you for going into detail about this topic. My Garmin Connect app has calculated that my VO2 max is 56, which it says is in the top 5% of all males in my age group. I'm a 36 year old endurance cyclist that has been riding a little less than three years. I hadn't paid much attention to this metric until recently - Pretty exciting stuff!
Great analysis thanks. We’ve been pondering this for a while, the accuracy of our Garmin’s Vo2 max, (745 and 945). My wife and I are both 60 and have Vo2 max of 36 and 39 respectively (she’s clearly fitter). She is a sculler and I a kayaker and wondered if the watches, as running devices, were capturing it all accurately. I like your comment on relativity. Many thanks.
Mr Julie
Interesting topic for a video. The only thing I'd expand upon is what vo2max means practically. It's not so much about endurance but your genetically limited pace spectrum. Anyone can train their aerobic system to endure running a marathon distance. How fast you'll be able to run that marathon however, is dictated by your vo2max - and your vo2max is highly genetic and not something you can usually alter beyond 10-20% from what I've gathered. In other words a person with a genetic vo2max of around 50 is unlikely to reach much higher than 60, and the speeds it implies, through training. And of course this gets worse with age.
Had my test run today at Loughborough. Good fun and great guys working there. Looking forward to their report in a couple of days, for me I think lactate threshold is probably the more useful metric
and? what was the result?
Excellent video! I have wondered about how accurate my VO2 Max was on my Garmin. Good to know that it is reasonably accurate. Thanks for doing this test and video.
I didn't know the garmin had a trail run option! I've been neutering my scores by recording them as runs! I also think there's a big difference for me on the cross trainer vs running. I'm way fitter on the cross trainer as I can train daily on it
Trail Run on garmin has some limitations. It won't calculate some metrics that you get with the "run" mode. If you rarely run trails then it will be statistically outside the scope, which throws off averages. If you primarily run trails then your baseline data will be trail based, so you should use "run" even if you mostly run trails.
I'm mostly a mountain/trail runner and i only use "run" mode on my fenix because all my stats are based off trail running. If you primarily run on road then you should use "trail run" when you do trails so it doesn't tank your stats. I want my vo2 based off trails so i use the "run" mode for all my runs.
Fantastic insight to Vo2 max, always wondered how accurate my garmin was. Great video as always
I think we're all surprised how close the garmin was to the lab results. Thanks for the vid!
It’s purely a guide and although the tech gets better I’d recommend other things to focus on if you are looking to improve
I was pleasantly surprised at the accuracy of the watches!
I was expecting a deviation of 15-20%, expecting only a VERY rough idea, and never took my watch VO2 max very seriously. As long as it was going up that's all I really cared about.
That's awesome to learn it's generally within about 5% accuracy!
It's interesting how close the watches predicted the VO2 max number. I also find it interesting how quickly my VO2 max number will change (though not drastically) up or down week over week depending on my training. Great video!
After 2.5 months of running, my VO2 max measured by my Apple Watch improved from 38 to 48! It's really an exciting figure that motivates my daily exercises. I'm now on my way to the 50s!
In the lead up to this year's Edinburgh marathon (end of May) my VO2 Max was 56. I caught covid immediately after the race and over the next month my VO2 Max dropped to 53. I was noticeably suffering with excessive fatigue for 6-7 weeks but now I'm back to normal training. I feel like my fitness is improving gradually but my HR is still slightly higher than pre-marathon for comparable efforts and my VO2 Max is stuck on 53. This may be a true reflection of my current fitness level but I do wonder what effect the summer heat is having on my VO2 Max score (excessive heat will effect HR which my Garmin will use, along with pace, to work out the VO2 Max score). When I was training for Edinburgh the temperatures were typically in the low teens, not the low 20s!
in addition to trails and hills, which they mention, mine can change a few points based on temperatures or if I go to sea level (normally train at 1300m+). It also seems like hard and short efforts increases my watch estimate. After a 100k my watch thought I was in bad shape because the last 20k was at a slow pace but my HR was way high.
Oh yeah, it changes a lot if I run hungover or sick.
It's definitely true that if she was still a little bit in recovery from being sick that she could have a higher VO2 Max than what she tested at. But it is not the case that giving a little more at the end would cause the difference. You reach your VO2 max well before maximal effort. It is a plateau that happens over the course of the test. You should check out the graphs if they gave you all those details. It's pretty cool to see the VO2 plateau and then actually drop off as you entire the anaerobic zones of running. It can help you get a very accurate idea of your paces at each aerobic Zone and find your true Zone 2 pace for instance.
mine has dropped from 39 when I bought the watch down to 31 after covid. I am back up to 34 on my watch. The highest I have heard of is ultra marathon runner Matt Carpenter. 90.6. Tested in Colorado Springs in 1990 after winning the Pikes Peak Marathon.
Cyclist Oskar Swendson has a V02 max of 97.5 apparently
What a fantastic and informative video! I've often pondered doing a lab test, not because I'm in any way an athlete, but more for geeky curiosity. So interesting to see just how close the lab scores are to the watch, might just upgrade my watch and leave the lab for the proper runners!
Glad you enjoyed our latest video Rebecca! What watch were you thinking of upgrading too? 😊
@@runningchannel Not sure! I've got a 245 which I like, but I haven't been very impressed with the training suggestions, and now would like something with more tech and music options. Loved Andy's recent video looks at the new options, so might ponder it. Wish there was a way to pass my old one on to someone though, feels like a waste to have it sitting in a draw!
I find it's quite amazing that the Garmin Vo2 Max estimation is so close to a lab test. I mean come on, it's just a GPS, heart rate belt and watt pedals for me and this thing's smashing its estimation. What a time to be alive.
I've had my own official VO2 measurement done and it showed 42,1. My Garmin claims it to be 45, and I deem that pretty good. I am currently also only using Venu 2. Good job team at Garmin! Looking forward to upgrading my watch to Epix some time soon. :)
I just use mine for improving and a guide, nice to see it get better
Great info. Always wonder about the accuracy of my Garmin VO score ..the key for me is to maintain it and try to improve ..don’t really care if the score is a bit off ...
I am using my smartwatch as a monitor for vitals. Set to alert my wife if stats become abnormal. After several bouts of lung collapses, surgery on both lungs (which helped temporarily but am now on the transplant list), having a blockage in my heart especially while under stress or exertion the watch gives a sort of reassurance that i won't end up by myself somewhere unable to call for help.
It’s interesting how much easier it is to obtain metrics in cycling with power meters, which then let you set your training zones fairly accurately. Measured threshold in a lab is very comparable to that measured during a ramp test on a bike. As a former runner I would hope the technology is getting better for running.
As an engineer working on workout data, the biggest issue I've seen is that it's difficult to get efficiency data when running. Because the watch is only aware of what's happening inside your body (and a tiny glimpse out such as cadence), it's damn near impossible to tell how efficient someone's running stride is which greatly effects metrics
@@Shadogi Agree, I’m also an engineer. It’s going to take more technology than a watch, maybe ‘smart sneakers’? I also see those continuos glucose monitors that cycling just banned from racing as technology that could help.
@@mauriciorosales1259 you mean like a stryd? No idea how accurate those are though
@@markiemannie at least there’s something, but I don’t know much a them either, but you need to start somewhere.
I agree that whatever the accuracy of the figure on your watch, if it’s moving up then you’re making progress.
But you can make it more accurate if you do the actual VO2 test that the watch has built into it.
I did that and it’s pretty tough. Have Sarah or Andy done that.
I’d like to see a video of that and what the results are.
I understand the vo2 max relies a lot on accurate weight being entered. I could be wrong though, I'm far from an expert. I'd generally believe the watch though.
Interesting and helpful information, thanks! Last year, I was inspired to train for my first half- marathon; I watched a lot of your channel for pointers, and was particularly interested when Sarah noted that her marathon training had significantly raised her vo2 max. One year later, I have gone from 37 to 49vo2 max( Garmin)! But also, like Sarah, I am now recovering from an injury so will note the 3ffect, as you state. Question: does age affect the vo2 max- Andy hinted at this, and as an older athlete myself I am thrilled with my results but wonder if there is a threshold. Also, keeping an eye on this, and a few other Garmin stats like pulse ox, are great indicators of general health conditions ( noting any significant changes). Keep it up, guys!
Thats an amazing improvement on your V02 Max, Allison! Sorry to hear about your injury and hope you are recovering well 😊 Age can affect V02 Max and tends to decline as we get older
How to do you trained to improve your vo2max so weel?
@@username849 I started running more, training for a half marathon vs previously less and shorter runs; this was over a year during the pandemic when the pools closed, so I focussed a lot on outdoor fitness, also continuing with cycling and tons of walking. My vo2 max jumped in the process. Keep going!
thanks for this video, I never really used my garmin watch's vo2 max in my training eventho its a very handy feature but because I just never really trusted a smartwatch's vo2 data but this video actually changed my mind. It's definitely not 100% accurate or anything like that but for such a straight forward and simple equipment, its really not bad at all and I might just start referring to the data more in the future to track my training
Despite Andy’s comment that he was “making it look like hard work’, I overriding thought was that both of your ran very efficiently - It looked really smooth!
I'm still learning to use my Garmin watch. 😂 To be honest I haven't thought of VO2 much before this video. My watch is saying "47 and not bad for 50-59" Should I be happy with that or can I improve still? Informative video 👍👍
Do you honestly think you can’t improve,
When you are ‘still learning to use your watch’
@@fastinradfordable I've not been running for long, I haven't had my watch long. I'm still learning about running and the watch too. No need to be mean towards me.
@@JimmysGarden Actually I think he was being encouraging. What he is saying is "you are at the very start of all of it so of course you can improve!!" Great news all round. Enjoy your watch, but get a chest strap - far more accurate.!!!
I've been running my whole life but over the last 15 years, my hear rate explodes with the easiest run. I just started reteaching myself proper breathing techniques while running and while I feel like I'm drowning the whole run, my heart rate no longer goes straight to 185. VO2 max has stayed fairly constant (watch) at 40.1.
Keep up the good work! Be aware, however, that the wrist optical HR sensors are prone to "cadence lock" especially in the first few minutes, which causes the readings to erroneously approximate 180 right off the bat. That could explain your readings (instead of being out of shape) if you aren't already using a chest or armband HR monitor. Those erroneous readings will greatly diminish the VO2 Max estimates.
I started exercising (using my Apple Watch) for approximately 3 months now. In the last two months, I've reached 1000 calories burnt every day. I used to take two tennis lessons per week, but since last week it's up to 3 weeks. I've lost 1.8 kilograms in the last month and lost 1.2% of body fat in the last month, having currently 20.4% of fat. I've noticed also that my fitness has improved dramatically. Whereas before if I ran for an X amount of time I would have to stop soon and recover, I can now do the same amount for a much longer time and keep on walking. However, my VO2 Max level according to my Apple Watch is astoshingly low (22!) and it has stayed that way for almost all the time the watch has recorded it. Actually, BEFORE starting my tennis classes it was 24! I'm trying and trying to make it go up and it won't budge. I'd really appreciate it if you gave me your opinion.
No answer? How is it now?
I have a terrible V02 max at 26 im 56 years old and running in this years GNR can run for 7 miles without stopping but now realising i will be slower. Last training run I was in zone 4 and temp was 26 degrees.
I have a Gamin Forerunner and it shows my VO2 max 48. I´m 40 yrs young and don´t exercise as much as I would like to, so it´s nice to know that it is not that far off. I think I will try to break the 50 mark someday!
I find Firstbeat's VO2Max value to be another Garmin metric that sounds like it would be great to have, and a value that is probably statistically close, but whose actual value is too incorrect to be useful for my training. Throughout the time I've been wearing a Garmin watch, it has been telling me I have VO2Max of 39. I think I remember it briefly dropping to 38, and also think I remember it briefly hitting 40 (both times I think there was a watch software upgrade of some kind), but the watch has overwhelmingly displayed 39 ("Good") for about 18 months. In August 2021, after about 6 months of run/walk training, I did a legitimate treadmill test that showed VO2Max was 35.7, while a subsequent test on the same Korr machinery in July 2022 measured me at 43.7. I've been training pretty hard through the 11-month period, so the change is almost certainly directionally correct. For someone in their mid-60s and about 180 lbs, Firstbeat's algorithm seems incapable of showing me that there had been any improvement at all. It overstated truth for some number of months, and has been understating truth in recent times, and has never offered any suggestion that I had been making progress. I'll let the reader decide how well an unchanging 39 score reflects what the Korr machine reported, but I consider the Garmin VO2 Max metric to be useless to me.
If you're looking for another metric to subject to some scientific scrutiny, I'd love to see somebody dig into HRV (Heart Rate Variability), using RMSSD. The metric definition sounds fantastically useful for training, but like VO2Max, I'm not so sure Firstbeat's computations produce reliably valuable numbers, at least for my age, etc. I did some amateur sleuthing on the SDRR metric available from my Garmin watch, and some experts argue that such a metric needs a substantially longer time sample period than the 2-minute collection done by the watch.
I’d be curious to know if the cycling vo2 is close as well. My Garmin’s been sitting between 71-74 for a few months now and that’s probably more than a little optimistic
Great and Interesting video. Though I think it is a shame it was only tested with one make/model of watch. It would have been interested to see how different products compare in the accuracy of their algorithms
Awesome video, thank you so much! I am 56y., running 50-80k per week with a Garmin (Epix2) VO2max of 51. always wondered how accurate the reading was but have to say it served me very well as a general indictor over the last 2 years. Did a professional performance diagnosis like you did and came out at 49, so it seems - though we only have 3 samples yet - that Garmin‘s VO2max seems to be 2-3 ml/kg off/above true value in our cases. Typical exaggeration by Garmin as with the Power (Watts) indicator. Fine for general training
@BOGDAN SERBAN How old are you and how heavy? I‘m sure you understand how VO2max changes with these values? As I said, I am 56y. That gets me in the top 5% in my age group, which is okay for me.
Watched video (great) checked my Vo2max. 49, which initially disappointed but Garmin said this was 'superior'. Checked a table and it doesn't go that high for someone my age (71) so going for my afternoon nap happy.
Also, I think it’s a brilliant insight into one of the aspects that makes an Olympian/elite athlete different from the average or even above average person - the willingness and ability to suffer and endure pain further than the average.
Plus genetics and dedication and sacrifice too of course!
Been wanting a video for a while on this. Good to know!
Great video as always! I already use vo2max for my training. But since I got my Fenix 7 there's also the HRV prediction. Would be great if you could make a video about that! Cheers
I've used it for a while but it's nice to know that it is pretty accurate. I love my Garmin Fenix!
As important as VO2 max is velocity at V02 max, or vVO2 max. You can keep the same maximum oxygen uptake, VO2, but get faster at that oxygen uptake through increases in running economy/form, better neuro-musculature and strength, etc. This can be especially true if you are doing technical or steep trails where form differs and economy is paramount, or if you haven't done much form/drills/strides in the past.
You may be very close to optimized for your genetics in aerobic development, or at least have all the easy gains taken care of from base building, but you can still get faster at that VO2 max.
anyway, fun video. thanks. Interesting to see. I wonder if a watch would ever underestimate your max for some athletes/conditions, or if the heart rate method always overestimates by ~5%.
thanks for video. my results few months ago - garmin: 56; lab: 61.
I do keep track of my VO2 Max on my watch, as you say in your summing up, it gives me a measure to track my improvement over time as much as anything else. Interesting to see that our watches are reasonably accurate 👍 ( loved that Rick, like a true athlete, was broken on the treadmill but still stopped his watch! 😆)
Thank you for taking the time to do this test!
I am a 60 year old triathlete and my Garmin says my overall VO2 Max is 51 and for cycling it is 58. My coach told me to disregard the number on Garmin due to accuracy. In this case I am happy to know that it may be close, just don't tell my coach I looked 🙂
I tend to ignore the vo2 max on my watch, it always drops when i do easy recovery runs and rises with harder fast runs. Watch suggests recovery run but then tells me I'm losing fitness when i do them 🤷 i do keep meaning to do a lab test though
Just don't wear a watch when you do recovery. Don't need it. It's not because you have a watch that you have to use it everytime. Use it when that matters and when u push yourself. It's important to learn to feel yourself alone.
This is kind of similar to our findings, but it really depends how avidly the athlete uses their watch. The more good quality data you feed the watch the better the estimate is. Seems to take about a month to establish.
I always wondered just how accurate the VO2 Max readings on my Garmin watch were; I guess pretty decent! At age 61, my VO2 Max is 44.5 and my average resting heart rate is 48. I swim 1500 meters three times a week, followed by 750 meters of maximal effort sprints, split into 50's and 100's. I also Mountain Bike a couple times a week. On my Mountain Bike rides, I can still hit 195 bpm, in the pool I never get above 175 bpm.
Man Impressive!, I am going to use your data as reference for my ageing
195 bpm @ 61 is incredible! I hope I'm able to sprint 50s and 100s at that age!
thanks for doing this guys! I have always been so confused with the garmin data... have been training quite intensively for the past years and seeing my VO2 max dropping constantly from 54 that have been stuck for quite sometime to 52 led me to a lab test! to my surprise I ended up with a 66 value instead! not to mention apple ultra has never been over 47...I had a good lesson learned there😅
Really glad we could help!!
My Apple watch: 50. Lab test: 71. Cant rely on watches…
A VO2 max of 66 and 71 is elite. Unfortunately, I know first-hand from multiple lab tests that they can be way off too depending on the skill of the technician along with many other factors. If your best 5K time is closer to 21 minutes than 15 minutes, it's much more likely your watch's estimate of 47-52 is more accurate than the lab's.
Personally I’ve found that my Garmin has been reporting a very stable estimate of my VO2 max for about a year now. It’s gone from around 53 up to 55, while in the meantime I went from almost no regular cardio (weight lifting only) to running a half marathon, and back down to regular, but lower mileage, runs.
Thanks so much! I have hope for this tech to improve our training more and more.
By far the best video about VO2 max I’ve watched till date. Thank you!
Great timing with the video popping up as I’d just been starting to pay more attention to the VO2 max number on my Apple Watch and wondering how accurate it may or may not be.
Great video, thanks. Nice to know our watches are "accurate enough". I'm really keen to hear how close your MaxHR zones were after blood tests. I wonder whether one of the areas we fail to reach potential as amateurs, is basing our training on HR zones that may be metabolically incorrect, because we just out our estimated MaxHR in and trust the zones that the watch spits out.
Would be interesting to see a comparison between different watch brands.
Thanks I always wondered.. I’m at 62 in winter but summer will go down with high heat :)
Interesting to watch. I've conducted over 5000 VO2 assessment protocols with everyone from pro athletes to de-conditioned members of the general public. Remember that 'VO2max' is an index relative to body weight (absolute VO2 in Lts/min divided by wt in kgs) therefore the easiest way in which it can change, up or down, is to loose or gain weight! Ranking tables are also gender and age specific. These are important aspects of the conversation you didn't really cover. Good to be bringing more science to the party though, thank you.
was going to make this point, but you made it better than i would have!
I was on the same floor as john holloszy group at WashU. From my eavesdropping I gathered that even in the best situation that VO2 max measurements varied and systematically when measured by different people within the same group. Given this variation in the standard (O2 consumption) and VO2 max paralleling power output, these segates likely serve most people, especially if precision over time is most important than accuracy.
That was fun to watch, I was really hoping to find this comparison so many thanks!
Switched watches and my V02 Max immediately went down by about 2 and it has mot moved in Months. Just over 2 months into my marathon programme I was starting to doubt it because I would have expected it to go up, and it finally did, by 1, yesterday
Surely you need to be wearing a chest strap for better results over time rather than optical HR data? My VO2 goes up when I'm in recovery (Doing a marathon training plan) I don't really use VO2 but more lactate threshold for my running now.
Great video guys! I’m looking to buy a new watch, which make and model do you recommend?
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It's worth noting from the Garmin/First beat white papers on the topic, that the accuracy of the VO2MAX estimate drops from within 5% to within 9% if you don't have an accurate estimate of your personal HRMax also. (Another painful test).
15km/h for 1 minute is quite a good pace.. but imagine one thing: Kipchoge was running 21.2km/h.. FOR 2 HOURS. MENTAL!!!
I am an exercise physiologist with my own gas analyzer. Sometimes the difference between watch an real vo2max is huge. In one case it was 28 (watch) vs 44 (real)
Awesome content guys, I really enjoy your channel! Would you have any training tips for improving VO2? Many thanks
So glad to hear that Sean!
Andy and Sarah, have you noticed if the 955 VO2Max changes more slowly than on the previous watches? It seems to not change up or down despite significant improvement in speeds for a 5k with the same or lower heart rate.
Started running again after 20+ year's of good living. My VO2 Max stabilised at 41 in February , slowly increasing & reading 44. I'm 53 and not particularly fit ex smoker, with a huge amount of metalwork in my left leg, hip & pelvis.
I've only ever used this as an indication, but thought it would be much further out than your tests have proved.
Great video.Your next test should be to,test the recovery recommendations proposed by the Garmin watch.!
Hi Guys!
At 9:20 min you mentioned the differences in VO2max on a "flat road" as well as "trail running". Is there a study or a paper (published evidence) that can proof that theory? If yes, who published it?
You´re doing a great job, keep it going!
Always enjoy the videos you do like this, thanks for getting in the lab 😊! I would be super interested to know how accurate the watches Lactic Threshold is as well. And another great video would be to do a training block after the lab test to see if you can raise your lactate threshold. Then go back and have it measured again.
I run with an Apple Watch it’s currently reporting my VO2 Max at 57.7.
I also ran proper VO2Max test recently but only got 53.1 so believe the watch is over estimating.
What do your 5k and 10k times more correlate with? I assume the 53.1 as that's lab-tested, but generally, if a watch says you have a VO2 max of 60, and you run 22 mins for the 5k, you know it's probably an over-estimate unless there's some really abysmal running economy going on.
@@yellowfolder This is literally exactly what is happening, I ran 21:59 as a PR the other day and my watch says VO2 Max of 61?? Like??
@@yellowfolder I currently run 5K PB of 19.37 and 10K PB of 42.37
My apple watch says a VO2 max of 60, and my Garmin 67 (5k 17:34, 10k 36:13) so apple watch seems more accurate (if a little high), and Garmin is WAY off.
@@JBR.1974 As we'd expect, the lab VO2 max correlates much more nicely then