In 1969 in Western Australia as a youngster, at my local station the signal box was on the platform. After school the signalman would let me in to watch. We had semaphore signals and the bell codes were the same as UK. One day we got the 9 bell no rear lamp from the previous box. In an instant the signalman set the signals to stop the train in the station ( it was an express) in this case the lamp had dislodged so the train was complete. Never forgot this little event.
I trained on this layout when it was at Manchester Victoria, but can`t believe that was 50 yrs ago. I also had the opportunity to have another go about 1993, to demonstrate how signalling works, as a team..at Victoria, then again, in March 2014 in York, as part of an organised visit from the Museum of Science and Industry in Manchester, (where I volunteered as a fireman, and Operating Officer). It really has been a part of my railway life..and feel so proud to have trained on such an historic layout.
Well that's stressful just to watch! I can't even imagine how fast every action must be taken if there's an non stop express running at full mainline speed
Excellent film. Wonderful to see that the L&Y layout is alive and well and in such safe hands. I had the great joy of visiting, and operating, it with my school railway society in the 1970s in it's original home at Manchester Victoria station. We also visited the full size boxes at Victoria to see the real thing in action. A wonderful day out, and a marvellous privilege.
I may be a Yank and unfamiliar with a great deal of the technicalities of railroading, but I couldn't help but notice that one thing that was glaringly absent here was an appropriately-scaled tea towel to be used when setting the switch and signal levers. Doesn't that omission count for a mistake here? 😆 This video was quite interesting to watch - although I'm rather certain that I would fail abysmally in either the training simulation, or in a real life application.
No wonder the Signalman in Thomas and friends are always asleep. They have so much to do that they barely have the time. Still, it is nice to see how people were trained back in the day. and this is actually quite frankly a realistic setup. although just a great model layout to play with your friends.
Has always struck me how much a railway is like a computer with the train being the information. This video on the signals just reinforced that notion.
Misleading. Telephones were used in sjgnalboxes for box to box messages and to area control. Also to drivers at SPT equipped signals. Richard Davies Signalman (Retired)
@@richarddavies6609I guess that's right, but not for safety critical messages I think. Omnibus phones were good for filling in football pools on Saturday pm though 😂
I’m a volunteer signalman on the NNR and I loved watching this. Didn’t know this layout existed and going to have to come and see it working if at all possible. 😊😊
Used to like visiting local signalboxes in the 1970’s. The ‘Bobby’ was usually happy to explain how everything works. Those days are long gone on Network Rail.
Wow, been to nrm a few times but never seen this in action, however it takes me back to my youthful days I had the experience of working in Clayton west station cabin as all l&yr box’s were called and Clayton west junction cabin, to say it was only a branch line there was not only passenger service to deal with but the colliery trains too, at the run round loop the class 37’s had no problems but with the class 40’s it was a different story throughly enjoy my time there
What an amazing piece of kit, and fantastic that it is still worling so well. Definitely surpasses anything they used at the signalling school I went to.
Thank you and the museum for preserving this model, and thanks as well to the volunteers who demonstrate it to the public. What an amazing piece of working history!
American here, absolutely fascinated by British signaling technology both modern and historic. It’s the epitome of the phrase ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’. Is this lesson available as an actual program or ‘class’ at the museum? When I visit I’d would enjoy participating in a program like this.
We went to see this at Manchester Victoria with our school railway club in about 1950 and perhaps seeing this kindled my interest in railway signalling and in 1956 I left school and joined Westinghouse Brake & Signal Co in York Way Kings Cross as a trainee and worked there for 10 years and spent several years on site on the West Coast Mainline resignalling .
I was extremely lucky to see the Swiss equivalent while on holiday in Zurich. Still used to train SBB staff - has semaphore lever frame, early power signalling, NX panel, and computer-based workstations. It was an open day and I got to operate most of the positions!
4:19 The R/G (or B in this case) filter disposition is shown for an upper quadrant signal, but the animation is for LQ, but at 12:14 we see the correct filter disposition for LQ.
OMG that was complexed very interesting. My Great Grandfather was a single man on the GN&GE railway in 1901 he had two level crossing to deal with as well as group on sidings and signals ….. hats off to there skills ❤
The 1 thing that struck me in all of this is. I would imagine a trains crew would receive a monumental bollocking if they forgot to put the tail lamp on the train. That would cause pandemonium among the signal box crews, depending on how many sections the train had passed.
A door on the catch (ie not fully closed) was not uncommon, esp on the offside of the train (ie not visible from the departure platform). Alternatively a passenger might have fallen out. I've seen trains go past a box that had travelled 90 miles in that condition. That said it was usually dealt with locally to minimise "Form 1", bollockings etc
something that perpetually irritates me with model railways is where the loco has working headlights and tail lights... and is showing tail lights between the loco and the train... also when the loco is showing dual tail lights, which signified the royal train or the Edinburgh-Glasgow push-pull trains until the late 80s
When I was a lad,I helped in my local tower,in my home town! It was a ten lever operation,run on PRR rules! Controlled through telephone dispatch,and train orders,it was quite an operation,and I learned a lot! Today,that building still stands,but everything is remote controlled from Jamaica,CTC,you know!! Times have changed,and yes,the computers,owe much to railroad interlocking,as the gate circuit,was part and parcel of the mechanical side! Thank you 😇 😊!
Wow! I have pictures of this layout in old railway books my father bough me in the 50s. I was unaware it is preserved and still working. In addition since I am a signalman at Glenbrook Vintage Railway in New Zealand it is interesting to see how much New Zealand signaling systems were derived from British.
Great session, and brought back memories of my time as a Signal Lad/ Box Boy at Arundel Junction on the Southern Region of BR, our instruments and levers were the same, however, our bell codes were similar although not exactly the same, and our signals upper quadrant. The signal that was red but that was shaped like a distant threw me?...Drew
@@nick-c Thanks, I wondered if it is like the Home "distant' for the branch line? As the training place was built in 1912 maybe they had yellow and red distants? Maybe it was mixed so if the trainee came across one they would know what it was? Thanks for thoughts. ...Drew
@@DrewsRailwayWorld I think the distants would have all been red when this was built, changed to yellow in the 1920s - but some have been restored to red for historical interest.
It feel criminal to me now that my model railway only has singles for show it would be amazing to have it all set up correctly then maybe playing trains could be even more fun 😊 just need to find more friends to play with lol 😝
What really concerning here is the complete and utter lack of a cup of tea!! 😂 As a Signalman of 21 1/2 yrs on the railway you can not work a box with out a brew!! Great video though and a very nice introduction for anyone wishing to learn how real signalling used to be 👍
Wow I’ve always wanted to learn the greater details of signaling and as a Midland, L&Y, & LNWR later LMS lines enthusiast this is absolutely wonderful. I’d love to get my hands on a Midland signalman’s manual or a facsimile of the same. For all the rules and bell signals etc. When I was younger I was all into the enginemans or drivers work and fireman. But I’m too old in my opinion to ever hand bomb a loco. This in turn has created a desire to learn and understand signaling and other aspects of the Railway
I trained at Manchester Victoria in late 1990 and sadly, didn't get the chance to use this as it was out of use. Bizarrely only a few years ago I discovered it had been restored and put back into use, as I met Phil at the Fleece in Haworth.
As a relatively new driver seeing this “old fashioned” way from the signaller’s perspective is fascinating. I’d love to have a go. Thanks for this one, it was a really, really good watch!
Extremely complicated, yes, can get confusing, absolutely. But that's what makes this signalling system so interesting and fun at the same time! This video has helped me out big time when doing research on block signalling practices I've been trying to implement when crafting track diagrams and signalling for my own attempts at making fictional railways in Trainz simulator of which the Potteries Loop Line DLC has included this fascinating "Signal Box Rule" adding block signalling as seen here into the game. They must've had to have sharp memories and quick movements to be signalmen on the railways back then, that's for sure!
That was fascinating, and great fun to watch. For some time now I've thought that a great pub quiz question might be, 'What, exactly, is the red light on the back end of a train for?' Anyone who's watched this will now know the answer.
I remember when I was about 6 yrs old being allowed into the local signal box. The signalman explained how the levers changed the signals and points and even let my older brother change one of the signals (it was too hard for me). He also showed how things were interlocked, such as the points could not be moved until the signals were in a particular position, and how detonators could be set on the line in an emergency. Next time we went he was gone, retired we were told, and his replacement would not let us into the box. 65 years on and it's all just as fresh in my mind. I would have loved to see the signalling school in action but unfortunately it was not available when I visited the NRM. Edit: this box would have been on the Lancs & Yorks before amalgamation. The associated station had closed just a few months before I was born but the goods yard remained open until the Beeching cuts. I had a drink in the pub opposite the former station just a few hours ago, Merry Christmas everyone.
I did my training on this Lay out when it was in Manchester Victoria in 1976 and in them days there over head Wired for the electric trains. They seem to be miss now. I became signalman on the woodhead line till it closed
When first built the layout had a third rail electric power. We don't have the overhead power setup but we have retained the power controller and third rail setup for the layout, although they are not connected. For simplicity we use battery powered models for demonstrations.
I've been trained as a signal worker in Germany, so it's really nice to see the similarities and the differences. Main difference, we do use telephones in signalboxes, but no bells. 😂
Thank you for sharing this video of the details of signalling. It comes at the right time for me as I have a family connection to early British Railway engineering and I am designing a scale model layout based on the work of my 2nd cousin 4x removed George James Crosbie Dawson. George started his career as a civil engineer in 1866 with the LNWR and worked his way up to assistant engineer by 1883 workign on projects with the LNWR and LYR including the Preston Park Hotel as resident engineer. From 1886-1914 George was Chief Engineer for the North Staffordshire Railway. This video will help with the operating details I hope to replicate. I have other information to share and a couple of questions which I will share with you via email.
actually here in Canada we had telephone boxes all along the tracks to connect directly with the dispatchers. Most of our trackage not controlled by signals but operated on train orders given by the dispatcher. .
Thanks! There's a demo once a month but there are two planned for this month, one has just taken place and the next one is on the 28th. We'll be publishing the 2025 dates on the website soon. www.railwaymuseum.org.uk/whats-on/signalling-demonstration
Yesteryear's equivalent of an Air Traffic Controller, but with a far greater likelihood of a serious accident, should they get it wrong. Thank you for this fabulous insight video. As model railway enthusiasts, it makes us better informed in realistic running of our own layouts.
Fantastic possibilities for railway modellers. Not just operating the points/switches and speed control, but adding in the signalling will require exciting cooperation with more operators on the layout. Superb 👍
@@rickbear7249 Something that annoys me at exhibitions is when shunting or running round most layouts will stop a loco just past a point end change the point and go forward again as if every point would have a signal, whist in reality in many places signals will be placed further back and route trains over a few sets of points. So watching a layout you would see more movement than everything in the distance at a busy show. eg Box A has 3 shunt signals together not one at each point end
Really enjoyed watching this, Didn't know it was the oldest model railway in the world but did Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway call their signal boxes, Cabins? Think I read it about it once when I was at Parbold Station on the Wigan to Southport Line
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So what is the procedure if its assumed there is part of a disabled train still in the section ? Does the signalman stop the next train and tell the driver to proceed at low speed - or does the signalman walk the track ?
You wouldn't assume! If it's not left the section complete with tail lamp, you'd send 'obstruction danger' and arrange for the line to be examined - which could be by a non-passenger train
As a class 3 relief signalman on the Southern in the 70's, I am surprised that there was no entries made in the train register. As they don't have a "box boy", it would be a form 1 offence to not record all trains and bells. Tut Tut! We also had a very large scale model railway set up at Beckenham, but not as old.
This is why Heinrich Büssing developed more technical safe signaling systems, wich are btw. still in charge today and dont't stand electronic signaling boxes behind a lot, in terms of security.
If the wrong bell code is sent when offering a train, and it is therefore accepted by repeating it back to you, there is bell code 5 pause 3 for correcting the error, or 3 pause 5 if you want to cancel the erroneous code completely.
No, it can't. However, we do have a set of working token instruments in North Shed which we sometimes use for demonstrations on the same dates that the layout is operating.
This layout can’t, though there is 1 training layout I know of that actually did, the one on the Longmoor Military Railway. This layout is actually shown at 13:38 in this video, and there are videos of it operating, “Railroading with the army” being the main one.
Very nice and interesting thing to watch. I'm just sad you didn't show how that emergency ended and how to reopen the line after C talked to the train crew and made sure it's just the tail lamp that went missing - therefore the line A-B is clear.
I love the video. It’s really awesome although are there other survivors like this and can the visitors for the museum operated with permission because I would love to try it out, but I’m glad to wait years to save up because I’m from America but I find it very intriguing. How important sign is and all about the lamps in America, we don’t use lamps, but we do use something somewhere with the signals with big levers but with some telephones too
I had no idea the British system was so heavily manual. For example, I'd expect a train would automatically set a signal to "Danger" as soon as it passed, like American Automatic Block Signalling. And were signal boxes posted so closely together that one could see all the track under one's control? Or was the signal box signal system only used for junctions and crossovers, etc., with an automatic block system where the track didn't have important junctions or a passing loops, etc.? Or were British signal boxes so closely located together there were always stations and passing loops, crossovers, etc.? Even in the days of steam trains, U.S. railroads often spaced passing sidings by six miles or more, with trains often a mile in length. I know, lots of questions.
I have to wonder: when *_did_* the signal boxes get telephones installed? I presume they *must have* at some point, since it's a lot faster to ring the next box and tell them you've got something amiss than to morse code it, or deal with signals that may not be as precise as you need to be. Actually, do you have an old signal box, or tower? That would be a great episode.
Strange that this simulation requires the signaller to offer a train onto the next signal box without having received ‘Entering Section’ beforehand. In my experience, even signalling locations with very short sections don’t do that!
Its not that uncommon. Places like Exeter where theres 3 boxes within a few hundred yards do it, then based on the signalling simulations I‘ve played theres also places like Ford in Sussex which has a similar set up.
@BrokenIETinteresting! I guess I found it unusual that they’d make it part of a signalling simulation if it’s not the ‘norm’, but then with four boxes I suppose they have a chance to throw plenty of little quirks at them! AB signaller training has changed a bit since then 👍👍 did mine in 2022 on a far different set up to this! Feel like being able to see the train movements and points would’ve helped visualise it far better though
I knew a section where a long train would be in 3 blocks so they always sent the bell code forward from 1st to 2nd and in turn 2nd to 3rd box whether a 2 car DMU or 70 wagon loose coupled.
I worked at Stockport for 27 yrs, and we had to pass the train on, upon accepting it, because of the short sections..so it was common practice in many locations.Stockport being one example.
Is it really "Off the Rails" if they're on Miniature Rails?! Really though, a fascinating look into how Signalmen were trained for 83 years! (Hard to believe the last signalmen trained on this, were done so- in the year I was born.)
Funny that I watched this, because I actually had a dream not too long ago, that I was trying my own hand at the school of signalling, and..........kinda failing. lol
As a Former Movements Inspector there was an obvious mistake with the first passenger train, if it was going to the branch it should have been offered as a 1-3 NOT a 3-1 on the bell signals from Signal Box in rear. 1-3 is the bell code for - can you accept a Passenger Train going to the Branch Line? In some Signal Boxes where the 440 yards in advance of the Home Signal is not clear the train could be accepted under the Warning Arrangement using the bell code 3-5-5 but only where permitted.
That is without a doubt the best example I have ever seen on the signal box process. Thank you very much to everyone involved.
In 1969 in Western Australia as a youngster, at my local station the signal box was on the platform. After school the signalman would let me in to watch. We had semaphore signals and the bell codes were the same as UK. One day we got the 9 bell no rear lamp from the previous box. In an instant the signalman set the signals to stop the train in the station ( it was an express) in this case the lamp had dislodged so the train was complete. Never forgot this little event.
Sad we don't have much signaling equipment from the WAGR preserved, only very few cabins survive still
Phil Graham is a true gentleman. Was my manager for many years. Loved my 2 yarly rules exams with him that lasted all day
Fascinating. So much to learn here. This will have been the model my grandfather learned on in the 1920s.
And mine in the 30s
Phil took me for my Block class in the early 80,s when he was at Middlesbrough Tees manager always enthuaistic about job good to see him again
I trained on this layout when it was at Manchester Victoria, but can`t believe that was 50 yrs ago. I also had the opportunity to have another go about 1993, to demonstrate how signalling works, as a team..at Victoria, then again, in March 2014 in York, as part of an organised visit from the Museum of Science and Industry in Manchester, (where I volunteered as a fireman, and Operating Officer).
It really has been a part of my railway life..and feel so proud to have trained on such an historic layout.
Well that's stressful just to watch! I can't even imagine how fast every action must be taken if there's an non stop express running at full mainline speed
It’s a very complex operation that is sadly ever so easy to mess up, with catastrophic consequences. See Quintinshill.
That's the reason Centralized Traffic Control (CTC) and now Positive Train Control (PTC) are important.
watch the videos uploaded by Exeter West Signalbox
@@kristoffermangila Different systems are used in UK.
This system is very dependent on the human factor
Excellent film. Wonderful to see that the L&Y layout is alive and well and in such safe hands. I had the great joy of visiting, and operating, it with my school railway society in the 1970s in it's original home at Manchester Victoria station. We also visited the full size boxes at Victoria to see the real thing in action. A wonderful day out, and a marvellous privilege.
I may be a Yank and unfamiliar with a great deal of the technicalities of railroading, but I couldn't help but notice that one thing that was glaringly absent here was an appropriately-scaled tea towel to be used when setting the switch and signal levers. Doesn't that omission count for a mistake here? 😆
This video was quite interesting to watch - although I'm rather certain that I would fail abysmally in either the training simulation, or in a real life application.
Brilliant, thankyou Anthony. I have looked at this training model in the museum on many occasions, but it is great to see it demonstrated
"The need for signaling arises as soon as the company gets it's second locomotive"...
Sort of reminds me of: " The first motor race was held as soon as the second car was built"
No wonder the Signalman in Thomas and friends are always asleep. They have so much to do that they barely have the time. Still, it is nice to see how people were trained back in the day. and this is actually quite frankly a realistic setup. although just a great model layout to play with your friends.
It didn't hurt matters that early signlemen also (depending on company) were on 12 hour shifts.
Has always struck me how much a railway is like a computer with the train being the information. This video on the signals just reinforced that notion.
The analogy is enhanced by the recognition that signals/points are essentially bivalent switching.
Misleading. Telephones were used in sjgnalboxes for box to box messages and to area control. Also to drivers at SPT equipped signals.
Richard Davies
Signalman (Retired)
@@richarddavies6609 It depends on the era, surely?
@@richarddavies6609I guess that's right, but not for safety critical messages I think. Omnibus phones were good for filling in football pools on Saturday pm though 😂
@@richarddavies6609 I think he meant phones are not for reg 4 use, unless of course you have no bells, as they have failed.
As a signal nut, this type of stuff is right up my alley.
Id be entertained for hours
I’m a volunteer signalman on the NNR and I loved watching this. Didn’t know this layout existed and going to have to come and see it working if at all possible. 😊😊
Thanks for watching! Demo dates are on this page www.railwaymuseum.org.uk/whats-on/signalling-demonstration
Used to like visiting local signalboxes in the 1970’s. The ‘Bobby’ was usually happy to explain how everything works. Those days are long gone on Network Rail.
Wow, been to nrm a few times but never seen this in action, however it takes me back to my youthful days I had the experience of working in Clayton west station cabin as all l&yr box’s were called and Clayton west junction cabin, to say it was only a branch line there was not only passenger service to deal with but the colliery trains too, at the run round loop the class 37’s had no problems but with the class 40’s it was a different story throughly enjoy my time there
What an amazing piece of kit, and fantastic that it is still worling so well. Definitely surpasses anything they used at the signalling school I went to.
Thank you and the museum for preserving this model, and thanks as well to the volunteers who demonstrate it to the public. What an amazing piece of working history!
American here, absolutely fascinated by British signaling technology both modern and historic. It’s the epitome of the phrase ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’.
Is this lesson available as an actual program or ‘class’ at the museum? When I visit I’d would enjoy participating in a program like this.
In the video description there's a link to the Signalling Demonstration page on our website. I'm just getting hold of the 2025 dates to update it.
If you want to get hands on, our volunteers also operate a replica signal box in our signalling gallery on the same days as their demonstrations.
We went to see this at Manchester Victoria with our school railway club in about 1950 and perhaps seeing this kindled my interest in railway signalling and in 1956 I left school and joined Westinghouse Brake & Signal Co in York Way Kings Cross as a trainee and worked there for 10 years and spent several years on site on the West Coast Mainline resignalling .
I was extremely lucky to see the Swiss equivalent while on holiday in Zurich. Still used to train SBB staff - has semaphore lever frame, early power signalling, NX panel, and computer-based workstations. It was an open day and I got to operate most of the positions!
Excellent video, very interesting. And what an awesome model of the signal system.
4:19 The R/G (or B in this case) filter disposition is shown for an upper quadrant signal, but the animation is for LQ, but at 12:14 we see the correct filter disposition for LQ.
OMG that was complexed very interesting. My Great Grandfather was a single man on the GN&GE railway in 1901 he had two level crossing to deal with as well as group on sidings and signals ….. hats off to there skills ❤
What a nice little episode!
The 1 thing that struck me in all of this is. I would imagine a trains crew would receive a monumental bollocking if they forgot to put the tail lamp on the train. That would cause pandemonium among the signal box crews, depending on how many sections the train had passed.
A door on the catch (ie not fully closed) was not uncommon, esp on the offside of the train (ie not visible from the departure platform). Alternatively a passenger might have fallen out. I've seen trains go past a box that had travelled 90 miles in that condition. That said it was usually dealt with locally to minimise "Form 1", bollockings etc
something that perpetually irritates me with model railways is where the loco has working headlights and tail lights... and is showing tail lights between the loco and the train...
also when the loco is showing dual tail lights, which signified the royal train or the Edinburgh-Glasgow push-pull trains until the late 80s
You are so right. On our (Glenbrook Vintage Railway) guards check sheet is validate the tail lamp is on before the train leaves the depot
When I was a lad,I helped in my local tower,in my home town! It was a ten lever operation,run on PRR rules! Controlled through telephone dispatch,and train orders,it was quite an operation,and I learned a lot! Today,that building still stands,but everything is remote controlled from Jamaica,CTC,you know!! Times have changed,and yes,the computers,owe much to railroad interlocking,as the gate circuit,was part and parcel of the mechanical side! Thank you 😇 😊!
That was so interesting and gave a real appreciation of what the job involved. Thanks!
My Parenteral Grandfather was a Signalman. When I visited him as a child, it all seemed like another world.
Danke!
Thank you!
Fascinating film!
I had no idea what was involved in signalling
Wow! I have pictures of this layout in old railway books my father bough me in the 50s. I was unaware it is preserved and still working. In addition since I am a signalman at Glenbrook Vintage Railway in New Zealand it is interesting to see how much New Zealand signaling systems were derived from British.
Great session, and brought back memories of my time as a Signal Lad/ Box Boy at Arundel Junction on the Southern Region of BR, our instruments and levers were the same, however, our bell codes were similar although not exactly the same, and our signals upper quadrant. The signal that was red but that was shaped like a distant threw me?...Drew
Distants were red originally, up until shortly before grouping if I remember correctly.
@@nick-c Thanks, I wondered if it is like the Home "distant' for the branch line? As the training place was built in 1912 maybe they had yellow and red distants? Maybe it was mixed so if the trainee came across one they would know what it was? Thanks for thoughts. ...Drew
@@DrewsRailwayWorld I think the distants would have all been red when this was built, changed to yellow in the 1920s - but some have been restored to red for historical interest.
@@nick-c Thanks ...Drew
It feel criminal to me now that my model railway only has singles for show it would be amazing to have it all set up correctly then maybe playing trains could be even more fun 😊 just need to find more friends to play with lol 😝
Fantastic that you were able to get it!
Fascinating! can you imagine how long it would take to learn a busy junction!
What really concerning here is the complete and utter lack of a cup of tea!! 😂 As a Signalman of 21 1/2 yrs on the railway you can not work a box with out a brew!! Great video though and a very nice introduction for anyone wishing to learn how real signalling used to be 👍
Wow I’ve always wanted to learn the greater details of signaling and as a Midland, L&Y, & LNWR later LMS lines enthusiast this is absolutely wonderful. I’d love to get my hands on a Midland signalman’s manual or a facsimile of the same. For all the rules and bell signals etc.
When I was younger I was all into the enginemans or drivers work and fireman. But I’m too old in my opinion to ever hand bomb a loco. This in turn has created a desire to learn and understand signaling and other aspects of the Railway
I trained at Manchester Victoria in late 1990 and sadly, didn't get the chance to use this as it was out of use. Bizarrely only a few years ago I discovered it had been restored and put back into use, as I met Phil at the Fleece in Haworth.
As a relatively new driver seeing this “old fashioned” way from the signaller’s perspective is fascinating. I’d love to have a go.
Thanks for this one, it was a really, really good watch!
Extremely complicated, yes, can get confusing, absolutely. But that's what makes this signalling system so interesting and fun at the same time!
This video has helped me out big time when doing research on block signalling practices I've been trying to implement when crafting track diagrams and signalling for my own attempts at making fictional railways in Trainz simulator of which the Potteries Loop Line DLC has included this fascinating "Signal Box Rule" adding block signalling as seen here into the game.
They must've had to have sharp memories and quick movements to be signalmen on the railways back then, that's for sure!
Brilliant, you did well.
Now I know how my solitary L&YR Block Instrument should be used
Fascinating! Thanks for that!
I have never been lucky enough to see this demonstrated, I hope to one day now I see there is a list of dates
Very interesting to see all the communications that go on.
That was fascinating, and great fun to watch.
For some time now I've thought that a great pub quiz question might be, 'What, exactly, is the red light on the back end of a train for?' Anyone who's watched this will now know the answer.
I remember when I was about 6 yrs old being allowed into the local signal box. The signalman explained how the levers changed the signals and points and even let my older brother change one of the signals (it was too hard for me). He also showed how things were interlocked, such as the points could not be moved until the signals were in a particular position, and how detonators could be set on the line in an emergency. Next time we went he was gone, retired we were told, and his replacement would not let us into the box.
65 years on and it's all just as fresh in my mind. I would have loved to see the signalling school in action but unfortunately it was not available when I visited the NRM.
Edit: this box would have been on the Lancs & Yorks before amalgamation. The associated station had closed just a few months before I was born but the goods yard remained open until the Beeching cuts.
I had a drink in the pub opposite the former station just a few hours ago, Merry Christmas everyone.
Oh the memories working with the S&T dept.
It’s like the ‘Great British Train Off’ :)
Thank you for a most informative video - always wondered what the inter-ralation of lighst and signals was ! :)
Great fun and explains a lot!
They should really put a tiny checkered tea towel on those levers
I did my training on this Lay out when it was in Manchester Victoria in 1976 and in them days there over head Wired for the electric trains. They seem to be miss now. I became signalman on the woodhead line till it closed
When first built the layout had a third rail electric power. We don't have the overhead power setup but we have retained the power controller and third rail setup for the layout, although they are not connected. For simplicity we use battery powered models for demonstrations.
@christophervalkoinen6358 I love to play on it bring back memories of November/December 1976 when I was at signaling school
I've been trained as a signal worker in Germany, so it's really nice to see the similarities and the differences.
Main difference, we do use telephones in signalboxes, but no bells. 😂
Brings back memories from my days on west anglia as a box boy
That was really educational. Well done.
Some of you may enjoy Billy Connolly’s signal man / signal box joke. It’s one of my favourites and definitely worth looking up 👍
Great video. Very interesting. And complicated!
Wow. How complex that is.
Very interesting to see it in action!
Thank you for sharing this video of the details of signalling. It comes at the right time for me as I have a family connection to early British Railway engineering and I am designing a scale model layout based on the work of my 2nd cousin 4x removed George James Crosbie Dawson. George started his career as a civil engineer in 1866 with the LNWR and worked his way up to assistant engineer by 1883 workign on projects with the LNWR and LYR including the Preston Park Hotel as resident engineer. From 1886-1914 George was Chief Engineer for the North Staffordshire Railway. This video will help with the operating details I hope to replicate. I have other information to share and a couple of questions which I will share with you via email.
Fascinating stuff!😊
Very interesting (and a lot to remember). It would be great to see a sequel on how it’s is handled today.
superb , grandad was a lancashire and yorkshire signal man
Very cool, thanks for sharing.
Great! Thank You to Show this Railway
I thougt that there's no occasion to have a beer in signal boxes 😉But very fascinating, indeed!
Saw this layout when we visited the National Railway Museum and would have loved to have had a play with it.
Totally not an upper quadrant moving down at 4:06
yep, but animators always get that wrong!
That looks so fun it all so helped me abit on head lamps that will help me in train sim world ❤
I love this.
I want a go
Greta video. Love how its is shot like The Office
actually here in Canada we had telephone boxes all along the tracks to connect directly with the dispatchers. Most of our trackage not controlled by signals but operated on train orders given by the dispatcher. .
Great video Anthony. Does the layout operate at certain times throughout the year?
Thanks! There's a demo once a month but there are two planned for this month, one has just taken place and the next one is on the 28th. We'll be publishing the 2025 dates on the website soon. www.railwaymuseum.org.uk/whats-on/signalling-demonstration
@ thankyou. I will definitely plan a visit for when it’s operating.
Absolutely fascinating.
As a experienced telecom telegraph engineer, this was fascinating.
Yesteryear's equivalent of an Air Traffic Controller, but with a far greater likelihood of a serious accident, should they get it wrong. Thank you for this fabulous insight video. As model railway enthusiasts, it makes us better informed in realistic running of our own layouts.
Fantastic possibilities for railway modellers. Not just operating the points/switches and speed control, but adding in the signalling will require exciting cooperation with more operators on the layout. Superb 👍
@@rickbear7249 Something that annoys me at exhibitions is when shunting or running round most layouts will stop a loco just past a point end change the point and go forward again as if every point would have a signal, whist in reality in many places signals will be placed further back and route trains over a few sets of points. So watching a layout you would see more movement than everything in the distance at a busy show. eg Box A has 3 shunt signals together not one at each point end
Not a realistic comparison.
Imagine doing doing this on a cold foggy winter’s night at the end of a long shift.
Really enjoyed watching this, Didn't know it was the oldest model railway in the world but did Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway call their signal boxes, Cabins? Think I read it about it once when I was at Parbold Station on the Wigan to Southport Line
So what is the procedure if its assumed there is part of a disabled train still in the section ? Does the signalman stop the next train and tell the driver to proceed at low speed - or does the signalman walk the track ?
You wouldn't assume! If it's not left the section complete with tail lamp, you'd send 'obstruction danger' and arrange for the line to be examined - which could be by a non-passenger train
Fantastic system...
As a class 3 relief signalman on the Southern in the 70's, I am surprised that there was no entries made in the train register. As they don't have a "box boy", it would be a form 1 offence to not record all trains and bells. Tut Tut! We also had a very large scale model railway set up at Beckenham, but not as old.
As said elsewhere, not everything we did and filmed made the cut
This is why Heinrich Büssing developed more technical safe signaling systems, wich are btw. still in charge today and dont't stand electronic signaling boxes behind a lot, in terms of security.
I was first installed at Manchester Victoria Station for the L&YR and that's where it come from.
What happens if you miscount or pause too long between bells? Is there a code to tell the other signaller that you got it wrong?
That is a good question.
I've asked Phil, will get back to you!
If the wrong bell code is sent when offering a train, and it is therefore accepted by repeating it back to you, there is bell code 5 pause 3 for correcting the error, or 3 pause 5 if you want to cancel the erroneous code completely.
5-3 train incorrectly described, or if in doubt pick up the phone and agree a mistake has been made and start again.
'We don't use telephones in signal boxes!' -Phil Graham, 2024
One thing I want to know about is tokens/tablets. Can this layout demonstrate how those are used, too?
No, it can't. However, we do have a set of working token instruments in North Shed which we sometimes use for demonstrations on the same dates that the layout is operating.
Most heritage railways use tokens, and the signallers there would usually be happy to explain if you ask nicely.
This layout can’t, though there is 1 training layout I know of that actually did, the one on the Longmoor Military Railway. This layout is actually shown at 13:38 in this video, and there are videos of it operating, “Railroading with the army” being the main one.
Very nice and interesting thing to watch. I'm just sad you didn't show how that emergency ended and how to reopen the line after C talked to the train crew and made sure it's just the tail lamp that went missing - therefore the line A-B is clear.
I would love to work that layout.!
I love the video. It’s really awesome although are there other survivors like this and can the visitors for the museum operated with permission because I would love to try it out, but I’m glad to wait years to save up because I’m from America but I find it very intriguing. How important sign is and all about the lamps in America, we don’t use lamps, but we do use something somewhere with the signals with big levers but with some telephones too
I don't think it can be operated but there are demonstrations every month. www.railwaymuseum.org.uk/whats-on/signalling-demonstration
Someone needs to make a game of this.
I had no idea the British system was so heavily manual. For example, I'd expect a train would automatically set a signal to "Danger" as soon as it passed, like American Automatic Block Signalling. And were signal boxes posted so closely together that one could see all the track under one's control? Or was the signal box signal system only used for junctions and crossovers, etc., with an automatic block system where the track didn't have important junctions or a passing loops, etc.? Or were British signal boxes so closely located together there were always stations and passing loops, crossovers, etc.? Even in the days of steam trains, U.S. railroads often spaced passing sidings by six miles or more, with trains often a mile in length. I know, lots of questions.
7:07 He says "number nine" just like Ringo
I have to wonder: when *_did_* the signal boxes get telephones installed? I presume they *must have* at some point, since it's a lot faster to ring the next box and tell them you've got something amiss than to morse code it, or deal with signals that may not be as precise as you need to be.
Actually, do you have an old signal box, or tower? That would be a great episode.
7:12 I think the wrong footage has been used - that's the plunger lock (blue lever 10, not black lever 9) being worked.
Strange that this simulation requires the signaller to offer a train onto the next signal box without having received ‘Entering Section’ beforehand. In my experience, even signalling locations with very short sections don’t do that!
Its not that uncommon. Places like Exeter where theres 3 boxes within a few hundred yards do it, then based on the signalling simulations I‘ve played theres also places like Ford in Sussex which has a similar set up.
@BrokenIETinteresting! I guess I found it unusual that they’d make it part of a signalling simulation if it’s not the ‘norm’, but then with four boxes I suppose they have a chance to throw plenty of little quirks at them!
AB signaller training has changed a bit since then 👍👍 did mine in 2022 on a far different set up to this! Feel like being able to see the train movements and points would’ve helped visualise it far better though
I knew a section where a long train would be in 3 blocks so they always sent the bell code forward from 1st to 2nd and in turn 2nd to 3rd box whether a 2 car DMU or 70 wagon loose coupled.
I worked at Stockport for 27 yrs, and we had to pass the train on, upon accepting it, because of the short sections..so it was common practice in many locations.Stockport being one example.
Is it really "Off the Rails" if they're on Miniature Rails?!
Really though, a fascinating look into how Signalmen were trained for 83 years! (Hard to believe the last signalmen trained on this, were done so- in the year I was born.)
Funny that I watched this, because I actually had a dream not too long ago, that I was trying my own hand at the school of signalling, and..........kinda failing. lol
I want a layout like that to play with
As a Former Movements Inspector there was an obvious mistake with the first passenger train, if it was going to the branch it should have been offered as a 1-3 NOT a 3-1 on the bell signals from Signal Box in rear. 1-3 is the bell code for - can you accept a Passenger Train going to the Branch Line? In some Signal Boxes where the 440 yards in advance of the Home Signal is not clear the train could be accepted under the Warning Arrangement using the bell code 3-5-5 but only where permitted.