Building a Solar Plane - Part 2
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ต.ค. 2024
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One of the things i have learned about MPPT controllers is that you never attach a load directly to them. Instead, just connect your load to the battery directly. The advantage between a MPPT solar controller and the voltage regulator is that MPPT or maximum power point tracking controller is that it actually operates the solar panel at the maximum power and efficiency whereas the voltage regulator doesn't. This is especially important in the evenings and mornings where the MPPT controller will actually be charging the battery and the voltage regulator will not. Unlike a battery, the solar cell produces the highest voltage (Voc) at open circuit and the highest current (Ia) at dead short and the MPPT controller adjust the voltage of the incoming solar to find the maximum voltage to get the maximum power (Vmmp and Immp). Sorry for the long explanation:( Great project and great engineering!!
This didn't make sense to me either. Seems like the solution was as simple as connecting the ESC directly to the battery and leave the MPPT how it was.
Came here to say exactly this.
The previous mppt setup was like driving screws with a screwdriver. Completely fine but not quite practical for the application. Instead of going for a drill (aka connecting the battery directly to the flight controls and continuing to use the mppt) though he just decided to use a hammer to drive the screws. Yeah the voltage regulator idea works but you loose all the benifits of having a solar system since the efficiency is now much worse.
Hey James, listen to this guy. This is your solution. Get rid of that voltage regulator and just make everything draw power directly from the battery.
This is what I was thinking.
now we need a cross country waypoint mission, like RC testflight
Those two are literally polar opposite
Not sure how legal it is in this country though
Possibly across Scotland? 🤔
@@Project-Air Maybe across Vatican city?
Do a GeoWizard and try to cross the country in a completely straight line!
You could always use carbon fibre rods to stiffen the airframe 👍 Great video!
Carbon spars at least. Would be a fraction of the weight of aluminum
Exactly what I was thinking
I would try making it airtight, and use helium for stiffening, and extra lift.
At least the stiffening part works for rockets.
Get some extra lift by pushing some air out of the wings.
No part is the best part.
It's funny how much time and effort goes into these projects and they tend to fail on such annoying mistakes. Watching him is very relaxing and extremely frustrating at the same time 😂
You beat me to it. Exactly! I'm building a rc plane now that uses Aluminum. Not those Monster Girders! Carbon Fiber is Prefect for His Wing!!!!!!
2:40 Well, the simple regulator lacks the capacity to do maximum power point tracking, literally the meaning of MPPT. More efficient would be to have the MPPT in the loop, but connect the load (and maybe the regulator) directly to the battery-terminal of the MPPT along side the battery.
Exactly. The MPPT makes sense - it's just the low voltage cutoff that's the issue. Powering the load directly from the battery avoids that problem.
I also wonder if the voltage regulator they are using has an appropriate current limit. If not, it could exceed the charge current rating of the battery. It would be particularly prone to doing this when the battery is low and/or at low throttle settings.
Yeah this part was particularly frustrating. Especially as they got someone with apparently more experience to help.
The mppt should be between the solar cells and the voltage regulator
Definitly an mpp controller would make sense, espessially when stripped of the heatsink and installed a more lighteight, high airflow appropriate cooling system
@@dack42 This is what I came to say; if they fly for too long in the clouds (and the battery discharges significantly lower than the regulator's setpoint) then it would likely cause damage to the battery when they reenter sunlight.
Hi! I really love such solar plane projects and plan to implement it one day. You have made a good progress, although I see some problems in your design. If I were you, I would do the following:
1. Replace a bulky LiPo battery with more lightweight DIY Li-Ion pack. It would be like 30% lighter and you can arrange it into a long narrow pack, which would allow to make a smaller hull, minimising frontal area and drag.
2. Mount the motor inside the hull. It will greatly minimise drag. Mounting it may be a bit more challenging, but solvable with 3d printed bracket. Or you can just change your existing motor mount with a more aerodynamic one, that would be an easy fix.
3. As others have already mentioned, MPPT controller’s purpose is adjusting current which is pulled from solar cells in such a way that generates more output and it works more efficient than a simple converter. I suggest you ignoring load output in your MPPT and pulling power from the battery instead.
4. Improve hull aerodynamics. It looks too big, has no front cone (I don’t see any reasons to keep it open from both sides, except for cooling (which is unreasonable and may be improved by having an ESC outside)). Reducing frontal area and adding a nose cone is quite simple.
5. Issue with motor mount being broken off on landing: use folding props. It will fold on landing and while soaring/gliding (and reduce drag). Be sure that not every folding prop mount suits pusher configuration, as props may fold «inwards» and won’t fold out when spinning.
6. Reinforcing. Aluminium is lightweight, but not as lightweight as carbon fiber rods. They may be harder to find and definitely not as cheap as aluminium rods, but far stiffer. Bonus points for making a special battery pack which may be inserted into a carbon rod (I doubt you have a wing thick enough to implement this idea, as 18650 cell and wiring will be quite large, but that’s just an idea). AFAIK AtlanticSolar did this to distribute load on its wings, thus allowing to have higher aspect ratio and thinner hull (by moving batteries to wings). Also, your L-shape aluminium extrusions may be drilled out in places which don’t bear load (for example a side which goes flat on the wing bottom side) which will allow to shed some weight. I also worried if your aluminium extrusions are connected in the center, if not the wing can snap.
7. Top-sided winglets may cast a shadow on solar cells, reducing overall power output. Mounting them inverted will solve this issue, but will certainly break off on landing. There might be a way to make them detach on touchdown, but it sounds more like the least priority to do.
8. Wing profile. That’s probably the most complicated thing in the whole build. I can’t see it clearly, but assume your bottom side is flat, and the top is also flat. Making top flat is probably the only solution to mount solar panels which can’t be bent, but such geometry (that’s my guess, I’m not even close to being an aerospace engineer) produces lift only when an angle of attack is not zero. This means higher drag by keeping nose up. I’ve seen a solution on rctestflight channel which looks like a ladder: solar panels are put on these «ladders» and form somewhat nice aerodynamic shape.
Btw your idea with joining two gliders is cool, but these gliders are based on real life gliders which have a thick cockpit for a pilot, which adds excess drag. I’ve bought a Voluntex ASW28 for endurance flights and plan on getting rid of stock hull and replacing it with custom narrow carbon fiber one.
Anyway, I’m waiting to see new videos with the solar plane!
This project NEEDS efficiency to work. To go from maximum power point tracking (MPPT) to a regulator you lose a LOT of efficiency from solar.
Judging by that large coil on the regulator, it appears to be a boost converter with a regulated output. If so, it does a similar function as an mppt controller without the active tracking.
@@Andy-df5fjit literally isn't as the name of the mppt implies theres a point where you can pull the most power out of the cells since wattage of the cells isn't consistent across voltages
@@pleck7059
Yep. No tracking. The maximum power point would need to be dialed in manually. No it's not as good as having active tracking for varying sun conditions, but it's still way better than a resistive regulator.
You could use a row of Super Capacitors instead of the lipo?
The electronics are not only a fire hazard, but also not ideal. First of all the purpose of an MPPT controller is to squeeze out as much juice as you can from the solar cells, something that seems vital in your case. Secondly, lithium batteries degrade rapidly without a proper charging curve, and could even explode. Source: am an aerospace Electrical Engineer.
How would a lithium battery explode if the voltage that it's being charged at is lower than the threshold needed to trigger thermal runaway? If you have a battery whose nominal voltage is 14.4 volts and you supply it with 14.4 volts, how would the battery ever get a voltage above 14.4 volts? Especially if it's connected in parallel with a motor?
Your source isn't good enough. It is a logical fallacy called the argument from authority, you may well be knowledgeable but there is always more to learn and mistakes like human error are common place.
Nobody asked
What exactly do you mean, that li-ion batteries degrade w/o proper charging curve? I am not criticising in any way but I am trying to learn from someone with practical experience.
Let's divide my question into three simpler ones.
1. Can li-ion or li-poly work in buffer regime at constant voltage, say 4.1v/cell, given they remain there most of the time and they are occasionally discharged and finally charged in cccv mode?
2.Do the batteries NEED regular charge/discharge for longer lifetime?
3.Should someone keep some state-of-charge (e.g. charge in amper*hours) constant instead of voltage?
@@WhoIsTheEdman In nominal operation, the cheap chinese DC/DC module they are using might not be a problem. But it is your single point of failure regarding battery safety. Who is to say that its output is temperature compensated ?
I’ve done a few solar projects on my own time, definitely not an expert. I would keep the MPPT rather than the voltage regulator though, by connecting the load directly to the battery rather than into the load connection on the MPPT, the other two connections remain the same. In this case the MPPT can charge the battery without worry of disconnecting the load. Keep up the good work Love the projects!
16 years ago I cut my right hand on a Deltawing K10 with a pusher prop. I was badly hurt. 3 weeks sick leave. I was shocked when I saw your friend Emma throwing the plane.
Since that day I use only folding propeller and start the engine when the hand is safe. For your monster that configuration would not work.
Ok ... I am 61 years old :-D which can also be a reason to be slightly shocked 😀
In real life I am an aircraft technician and what I also saw is that the wing cord is very small for that length.
To make it stronger, a long carbon tube with a wooden spar glued into it would also be lighter. OK ... to make that can be a challenge.
However, it is a good decision to go for a delta wing or double glider configuration.
I am sure you will get it happen.
best wishes from Hamburg Germany
Congrats for this partial success. You really stepped up your video production game. There is a reason people use MPPT-Chargers instead of DC regulators. The reason is that we do not really care about voltage but power and the power from solar cells gets really low if the current is too high. This happens when the battery voltage drops, e.g. when there is voltage sag when more motor power is needed. It may be worth testing your charging setup with the actual solar cells and changing lighting conditions and motor power. Also, with a plane that valuable it is always a good idea to provide a small extra battery for the receiver and servos so the plane can be landed as a glider if push comes to shove.
You could try to mount the solar cells inside the wings with a transparent cover. This should reduce air drag and help (somewhat) to protect the cells in case of a crash. (Yes, this will slightly reduce the efficiency of the cells).
I tried to charge my phone with a solar panel on the inside of the windscreen in my car covering the entire window, I got about 30% of the charge on the inside compared to when I put it on the outside of the window...
Im hooked to this channel, keep it up! You will get it flying!
The motor mount, the fillet helps, but mutch better is some ribs in the other plane/force direction.
📐is stronger than L
Oh yes baby, ive been looking forward to see this project again.
For motor mount, you need some ribs. And also print orientation is crucial. You snapped mount along layer lines, just print your mount on the side and you'll be fine.
"so I hopped on my Mac"
"and yes, this is all running on a Mac"
(shows B-roll of it running on Windows)
Very interesting video(s) and project, but I couldn't help but laugh at this part.
There's a company called PowerFilm that makes super thin and flexible solar panels. I don't know if they are as efficient as the ones you are using, but they could possibly be placed over a frame or even just wrapped around foam or something.
I would really like to see you building a rocket-launched glider. launch it 250m into the air and glide it down.
Use carbon and glass fiber laminates to form the wings. No additional reinforcements are needed, probably gives you the lightest fuselage.
Composite materials also make it easier to produce more aerodynamic joints. For your solar powered plane, efficiency matters
Burt Rutan's design!!!
It went around the world none-stop!!
I also have a solar charge controller that protects my batteries by shutting off. The thing is, I really *really* must keep my navigation lights on at night, or risk being run down (and killed) by a ship. So I have an override switch that bypasses the controller. It might damage my battery, but on the other hand, I'm a lot less likely to die. When your plan fell out of the sky, I was 90% sure I knew why!
8:10 top notch landing, certainly in those conditions 😍
Her magical hair almost distracted me from the epic mission undertaken. This is wildly ambitious, and bro just keeps on smashing it, video after video.
In before 5 minutes of release - nice
Good to see part 2 on this project :D
Why not cutting some rectangles in the aluminium bars to make it a lot lighter and still durable and resistant. You should try first cutting small amount and try cutting more till the resistance is too low then you get new bars and cut them to the desired measure. Also you should let the batteries be in recharge only up to like 90% to not encounter fire/explosive hazards and similar and start recharging at like 70% or so. I would lastly suggest using at least 2 batteries to be safer in case one shutdowns or worse (could happen with lithium batteries). Source: I’m a student of Physics engineering at the Politecnico di Milano in Italy.
16:28 the jet go kart in the back 👀
If you look at real life flying wings, their rear tends to be more of a W shape instead if a V. Maybe having a longer wing root and having actual elevators on it would help. The increased wing area also makes space for more panels and inherently increase rigidity.
Take the solar plane to north of the Polar Circle in the summer like North Norway :) Here it is non stop daylight and sunshine (if no clouds) for 2 months in middle of the summer.
This is actually crazy. I know how hard building planes can be. I can only imagine how hard it can be if you’re the one designing it too.😮
Take a look at stepped airfoils. Watched a video of someone else doing testing of stepped vs conventional airfoils, and at low speeds, stepped airfoils can actually have even lower drag than conventional. It could be seriously even more help in your case, since the the solar cells create extra drag on the top of the wing, the exact place that's removed in a stepped airfoil to reduce drag.
Love your Mini!!
Option 1: perforate the aluminum to lose some weight.
Option 2: use carbon fiber arrow shafts (splice them together) to stiffen the wings.
Why are you using a swept wing? Arent those for efficiency at high speeds?
Yeah I wonder if it provides some advantage I'm not aware of. Because it's usually not used for long range stuff
My guess is to avoid having the extra drag of tail surfaces. That's the main benefit of flying wing designs, reduced drag. But it requires a fair bit of wing sweep to get sufficient moment arm for the elevator control surfaces.
I would definitely look at adding some lightening features to those aluminium spars. You could probably cut that weight down by at least 25% with minimal effect to structural integrity
4:52 - Some lovely cars in the background here. Can we get a workshop tour?
Lessss go new vid
Hey mate. Awesome video as always. Regarding the L profiles for the wings: a much more weight saving option would be, to cut out unnessesary material.A quick FEM- analaysis should show you, where you can save material and therefore weight. Of course, cutting out a hundred slots and cut out by hand would be a pain, but cutting it on a large format water jet cutting maschine and bending it afterwards could save a lot of weight for not any loss in stiffness. I don't know if something like carbon fibre would do the job, as this would flex by itself, but the cutting method could be an option maybe?
Using a battery balancer would be a good idea. There are standalone breakout boards that you can hook up to the battery for that. As just using a voltage regulator is not really ideal for battery charging. Using proper charge circuitry would be better for safety and battery health. But balancing the cells would make it at least less bad.
Really Looking forward to the twin gliders tho!
Balancing isn't really necessary for this. The battery will stay balanced for the most part
make a flying wing with wings backwards like the x 29
I have ben subscribed for a few years and i live to see this channel grow
keep up the posts my good man
Keep it up. Properly invested in this now and even if we have to wait until next June for the maximum sunlight it’s worth persevering with. Finally taking it way north for 24 hours of sun and a whole day of flight
From devastating crashes come breakthrough ideas and success. Cheers!
Saw you two at project air on the bbc today so glad everythings going well on the channel and and glad me and all the followers are part of your journey 👍
I love the design of this one 🎉
This is an awesome project! Love to see how you progress!
You could take a lot of the gravity out of that aluminium 'L' bar by introducing speed-holes. With the right hole pattern you could keep the rigidity but lose up to 60% of the mass.
Love your channel and work!
You can also add solar panels under the wings
It will help a lot , but propably just one third of the power from direct solar
And if you do, you will also need one more charge controller for those solar cells
This will be the same as on my roof I cannot use same charge controller at my east roof as on my south facing roof
but still i get 2/5 or so energy from the panels who is in the shadow on a bright summer day And even "better" on clody days (not "more power" but at Hazy days it kinda evens more out (80kWh battery bank and 20kW solar)
Regards from Norway
Use square carbon fiber for the spars. Angle aluminum is both heavy and doesnt resist twisting very well.
I remember a few years ago seeing somebody created a solar hovercraft, but the technology has advanced quite a bit in the last couple of decades, so it might be worth you exploring it a bit.
That would've been RCtestflight you saw, his plane was quite impressive
Your design, as I see it, has several things working against it:
1. That aluminum spar is probably more than the wing actually needs in terms of stiffening. You'd probably have better luck with a less-substantial aluminum or carbon-fiber reinforcement, or you could build a torsion box out of balsa. The challenge isn't making the wing strong enough, it's making it just barely strong enough. If it didn't break in the first test flight, chances are good that a very minute amount of reinforcement would be enough to stand up to most turbulence. Your wing probably only really needed any real reinforcement towards the root.
2. Swept wings inherently have poor lift properties at low speeds. Your wing is actually swept well into jet airliner wing territory - unless you're in the mood to start adding high lift devices, you're kinda working against yourself.
3. There's no reason why the chord of the wing inboard of the elevons shouldn't be extended to match the chord at the elevons. Sure, the overall aspect ratio of the wing would decrease, but I doubt it'd create enough drag or weight to offset the lift benefit, especially since I'd wager increasing the chord at the tips is adding to induced drag...
4. You're going to have to optimize the powerplant for efficiency with respect to thrust... a ducted fan of the same diameter as your propeller is probably the best approach. While the duct imposes a drag penalty at high speeds, you're low and slow.
I don't think a delta wing is going to solve your problem - in fact I think it might make it worse. Delta wings are low aspect ratio by nature, so you're going to be sacrificing a lot of efficiency to no real benefit since your airplane isn't meant to fly at supersonic speeds. You're designing a low-speed airplane. High aspect ratio straight wings are the way to go.
God, I was thinking the same thing about the wings, like every solar plane created has had straight wings for a reason.
i think a good idea is to add a prop to the front, and add 2 batteries. Also i think you can add another layer of the solar panels to keep it running
I really love this project, every success!!
Hand launching without any gloves or other protection is reckless. That propellor would tear up your hand given the opportunity.
Agreed! Signed, a guy who chopped up one of his fingers when hand launching a pusher plane before :/ (no serious long-term injury, just a surprising amount of blood)
I wouldn't use a voltage regulator to charge a lipo battery since it likely doesn't have a way to limit current and so could lead to fires, i would instead make a straight connection from the battery to the controller, maybe with it's voltage regulated by a flyback converter
I was eagerly waiting for part 2 of this video.
Freecad is the ultimate CAD resource
I have many buildings unders my belt such as the Eaton and Windsor Rail Station to mention a few
Awesome build.
You should put solar cells under the wing too. It will pick up reflected sunlight similar to a biracial solar panel.
Watch those power on hand launches guys I’ve seen more than 1 person nearly lose a finger doing that…leather gloves or allow the throw before power is applied ❤️❤️ stay safe it can cut your fingers and wrists to the bone
without MPTT and seemingly no battery protection the only upside seems to be... drawing power from the battery when its below safe discharge voltage?
RCtestlight once launched a simple square solar panel with a motor, and this thing flew almost fine.
Ever heard of a blended wing body aircraft? Very efficient, lots of surface area, and they look really cool. There's a Wikipedia article that I won't post a link to...
Should have used carbon tubes instead of aluminum
Carbon fiber
This guys the reason i like physics
Looking forward to part 3😅🙏
Have you considered an inflatable airframe to reduce weight?
Have you tested your panel-to-motor efficiency? Each 1% with something like this makes a HUGE difference. That regulator probably VERY poor compared to a MPPT.
Have you tested your watts to grams thrust ratio using different props? Makes a big diff.
after month weeks finally
You should add some landing gear that can drop down so the propeller doesn’t get torn off on landing
You could embed the solar panels on the wing to minimize drag
Finally Ty so much for thys content dude
Aileron reversal is a problem. lol.
High aspect ratio is great for fuel used per unit distance.
Sink rate is great for endurance, aka low power.
Wing area is great for solar collection.
Awesome video
Could you increase thrust efficiency by changing your open propeller to one with a cowling around it like a ducted fan?
I love this type of content
You could also make a rocket with controlled flight
… and get thrown in jail for it.
you can try using a bigger propeller for increased thrust to energy-cost ratio
Your young lady did well, as in not shredding her hand on take off, i refuse to hand launch ANY plane with a rear prop, also even a rolled up cardboard tube would stiffen the wing, and weighs nothing compared to a strip of alui
A flat spin might be a good emergency landing strategy, like a sycamore seed.
Lol - you need to come here to South Africa : we got plenty good sun and space !
I'd go with a proper MPPT charger to avoid the ~30% efficiency loss in charging, carbon rods (which are a lot less expensive than in the past) and lithium ion cells that are more suited to this kind of applications with their power density.
Build an epoxy cast solar boat with these parts and send it on a tour around the world.
Letsgo i am within an hour!!
I am a great fan.
I suggest you make a new carrier which is absolutely HUMONGOUS and can fit GIANT planes.(also 2 people can sail on it)
Do y'all ever use an Atlatl to launch the planes? I think the extention would increase the gap between propeller and human flesh.
Good work
Hey! I see a Mark Roper dart launcher. 😄
Tech too good
Cut many holes in the aluminum to make it lighter but strong enough to handle flex
what about punching lots of holes in the aluminium profiles, to lower their weight without sacrificing to much strengh ?
Yon need no MPPT, the T, the tracking will endelssly oscillate on a plane. You also dont want a stepdown, it will cripple solar production by not keepin MPP voltage. You need a MPP controller with manually settable input (mpp) and output (battery) voltages and no "load shutdown". A 3A one costs $5.
To avoid shading problems have the 2 wings in parallel. This might need a lower voltage lipo and higher kv motor. If you have all solar cells in series, shading of one cell will kill the output of all the cells.
I think your issue real is that Matt has secretly built a hidden gaming PC with a clever cooling system into the fuselage.
BEST VIDEO EVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
You could drill holes on those aluminium bars to shed some weight
Does Emma actually work with you on design and/or construction?
If so, we need more Emma, if she's comfortable with that... always great to see a (historically) stereotypical "male profession/hobby" performed by stereotype-busters. =)
8:26 "cuz yeah"
Your old mppt says on the casing it's for LiFePO4 - does it have a separate mode for LiPO given the much higher cell voltage etc?
I love these projects an I also wanna start doing this
wouldn't you have been able to stiffen the wing with just half the aluminum? You don't need the full L because you're not worried about lateral flex as much as vertial. So if you cut the L into a vertical I instead, you could have saved almost 50% of the extra weight.
Building a solar plane in the uk is like building a rain collector in the sahara
use carbon fibre spars for the wing
reduce the fuselage length