I think you may have a card issue. My Z8 using the Sabrent Rocket Pro 512GB (the copper logo, not silver logo'd card) I am getting roughly 130-135 frames before my buffer fills and takes around 1.5 seconds to clear. lossless compressed at 20fps, 1/1000th.
Randy Bocksnick(Montana) Congratulations on awesome purchase of your Z8 Jack! Got my Z8 3 weeks ago and the 100-400 lense! I love the combination of the two. Baseball is over here in MT. So waiting for Football this fall- Been shooting some Wildlife, like Elk and Buffalo, but I don't enjoy it very much! For me JACK it's albout High School Sports!! Jack really enjoyed your video on your Nikon's! Randy Bocksnick
Are you writing to both cards in the Z 8? If so, that much slower SD card will be the limiting factor in your buffer tests. I have mine set to overflow on my Z 8 so it will only write to the slower SD when the way faster CFexpress Type B card fills up.
Yes, it was also going to the SD card, which is the way I normally shoot - using the second card as a backup. I clarified that in a part that ended up getting cut, unfortunately. It looks like I’ll be doing a follow up video testing the various parameters of the Z8 buffer performance.
First of all, great review. However, did you compare each camera to the D850. It was the ultimate camera for sports and wild life for Nikon shooters. I am interested in the performance gap between the D850 and each of the cameras. I would weigh that against the cost difference between the Z8 and Z9 before deciding which camera to buy. Also the Z8 and the D850 use the same battery and memory card (one slot on the Z8). So, if you are a Nikon shooter looking to "move up" your batteries and memory cards are still relevant. The batteries are a big issue because of cost and the EV and wireless communication capabilities drain your batteries quickly i.e. there goes your legendary Nikon battery life. Lol
Thanks for your time Jack. Did I miss which CF card you are using ? Because the buffer limits are cards, even CFepress cards. Fred Miranda tried some new CFexpress ones where he kept non stop shooting until card was filled with no slow down
Based on the number of comments on this subject, I'll be posting a more in-depth test in the near future. And yes, in some configurations, the camera will bang away forever - or until the card space limit is reached.
Thanks, Jack. Waiting for your next video on updated setting for the Z9 (sports) but in the meantime, I do believe with everyone's help, I left dynamic AF-Area mode behind - for a custom WA of my design to fit my style of shooting. Seems to handle fast moving sports like Ice Hockey just fine done that way. Thanks as always.
I still use 9 point on my d700 WAIT WHAT? yes I shot motorcross with my d700 and grip yesterday with the 24-70 2.8 still works great after all these years for long work i use the R3 and 100-500
Great overview.. This reasons, battery and the new options in 4.0 is why i like the z9's. The z8 is a GREAT camera and the answer to some people prayers and needs. I shot a 2 day race event for Formula Drift on one z9 battery with thousands of shots.
@@JackBeasleyMedia Aside from heating issues the z8 seems of have for long video recording. I rely a lot on muscle memory so button placement to match would be a huge deal for me. Alongside the extra programmable buttons the z9 has to quickly change focus modes and some other options I use them for.
I agree with your eval, clearly nothing of that makes a dent if the person has mobility issues and the camera is too heavy. The other thing you did not mention is that buying a 4K camera when is new and not debugged is risky, and we know Nikon cut costs and weight and went with the composite body. I really love the Nikon Z8 format, and. I may buy one (if the problems stop) at the end of the year, but I need to see how the Z8 goes in terms of quality.
I wasn't so worried about bugs with this camera, at least firmware wise, because Nikon has already had a lot of testing under its belt with the Z9. The two are siblings, essentially. But yes, it can be a problem with new cameras.
I can see the concern when you are shooting sports where action can happen anywhere and you need that big buffer,, If you can afford it always go for the better body as what you need will be there when you need it.. the pricing difference is worth it in the end..
Hi Jack - nice vid - "the buffer fills up quicker on the Z8 than the Z9" -- not in my testing when only using the CFE-B card slot. I am guessing you are not using the highest performance cards. Were you writing to both cards? Your table at 4:45 indicates 15 fps - surprisingly low numbers what cards were you using - performance with the 650GB Delkin Black is far far higher.
Interesting. I own both the Z8 (with battery grip) and the Z9, and my experience is a bit different, primarily due to use case. I shoot dog sports (I did coach youth soccer at a high level for 18 seasons, but my camera gear was very basic in those days,) I set both cameras at 15 fps versus your 20 fps. Before the Z9, I was shooting with a D850 and Z7ii (both with battery grips). I thought the D850's 6 fps (9 with the Nikon grip) was excellent compared to my former days with a D7100 and D750. Now, the 15 fps I set the cameras at seems relatively stellar compared to theD850 and Z7ii. I could be shooting at 20 fps, but I find I almost always get that perfect-moment-shot at 15 fps. Perhaps my biggest reason for not shooting at 20 fps is that means 33 percent more culling and card/computer storage. Your video has given me another reason to keep the Z8 dialed down to 15 fps.
Did I say 20? I'm pretty sure I was shooting at 15fps. I've found that extra 5 fps doesn't seem to catch that much more, and it means a lot more images to cull through.
@@JackBeasleyMedia Hi Jack, My bad. I actually didn't hear you say 15 fps, but your chart clearly shows 15 fps. I was probably doing two things at once and listening to the video and occasionally glancing at the screen. I listened to an interesting video the other day by The CameraVille on TH-cam that currently says it's from nine days ago, so around 06/25/23 or maybe 06/26. He runs some simple burst tests with the Z8 using four different CF Express Cards; ProGrade, Sabrent Rocket, Delkin Black and Lexar Professional. He got very different results depending on the card used. I found it interesting because the Delkin Black didn't shine like I thought it would. It also showed different did relatively better with stills than video and vice versa. Given the huge variance in retail cost for CF Express cards, it's worth a look. In my initial comment to you, I said we have somewhat different use cases. In my bigger shoots, I often use two cameras, one after the other fitted with different lenses. I try to keep my bursts to about 2 to 3 seconds giving the camera time to recover. And, I often shoot the bursts with the Z9 while my Z8 will be doing more profile types shots. And, don't get me wrong, I really like your videos. The fact that you concentrate on sports shooting make your videos more relevant to me than most things I watch. Please keep them coming.
I'd really like to know your settings because I've never had such slow continuous shooting times yet with my current CFE card and my Z8. At a speed of 1/8000s with AF-C 3D, the buffer is full at about 70 photos with lossless compressed RAW. The clearing doesn't even need a second in this case. When the buffer is full and you still press the shutter button, my card is still nearly as fast as it was before. Tried this up to over 1000 photos and then released the shutter button. These slow times you show at your video, I only had once with a really slow CFE card from Integral or with my SD card. You don't write to an SD card at the same time, do you? I use an Angelbird Pro SE 512GB CFE card.
I didn't notice the buffer issue unless i am writing to both cards. Only writing to CF card i got 45-47 lossless raw and it shoots at 4-5 fps after that. But when writing to both cards, i get the 1 fps after it hits the buffer. I used Prograde Cobalt 128GB CF card & Sony Tough G V90 sd cards. When shooting High Efficiency* RAW it shoots unlimited.
Yes, the SD card is the limiting factor. But, I always shoot with both cards in place “just in case”, so I ran the test accordingly. It looks like I’m going to have to do a follow-up video where I test buffer performance with both cards in, then only with the CF Express cards, and also in the various RAW file modes.
Great video Jack. Do you shoot sports in uncompressed raw? I compared that to HE* and didn't find any difference so I haven't changed it since. With that I end up with endless buffer on Z9 even at 20fps (which I rarely use). Wondering if you get the same on Z8.
I normally shoot the lossless compressed, which is what I believe you are talking about. The only reason I don't go with the HE* is because I normally process noise reduction with Topaz Denoise and Topaz doesn't like the HE files. But yes, I've never found any difference in quality between the HE* and the lossless compressed.
Hi - interesting video. DId you shoot to the SD card on the Z8 - if so, this threw off your test. Most reviews I have seen clock the Z8 similar to the Z9 when shooting only to the CF Express card (assuming the same card in both cameras etc.) Thanks :) -PD
Unfortunately, I didn't make that very clear, but yes, I was shooting to both. My intent was to show like for like performance between the two. With the number of comments and questions I'm getting on this video, I plan to do a follow up and expand the testing.
@@JackBeasleyMedia Yeah - I think it is more fair to express that you were shooting to the SD card as well. If you had only shot to the CF E card the performance would be about the same. That said, you do lose redundancy which is a thing - especially for a high end pro sports shooter, but for the wildlife community it basically doesn't matter at all - many big name wild life shooters only shoot to one card and when the card is CF E (which virtually never fails) it isn't as much of a thing. So, although I do agree that there are use cases to get a Z9 over a Z8, it really isn't because of buffer depth. Just my take :) -PD
You never mention on the video your chart shows that the Z8 clears the buffer almost twice as quickly as the Z9, which I have to admit seems a little strange to me.
I started to talk about that, but it seemed to drag out the video. I thought the pertinent point I needed to make was about how it performed while it was clearing. Also, yes it cleared quicker - but it had fewer frames to clear.
Jack, question: When you were shooting with the Z8 were you recording photos to both the CFexpress B slot and the SD slot, or to the CFexpress slot only? I understand the slow down in the Z8 if you were writing to both cards. I'm surprised by the slow down if you were only writing the to CFexpress B card.
No, it was to both cards. I tested them based on how I would normally shoot a game, with the second card as backup. So yes, the SD card, even though it’s “pro”, was likely slowing things down.
@@JackBeasleyMedia I get it. Wanting a backup of photos is prudent. SD, even V90, cannot keep up with CFexpress B. It is the unfortunate compromise of having two card slots of different types.
@JackBeasleyMedia I watched it twice to check what you said about the buffer and you mislead people because you state that you used CFExpress in both cameras and only mention something at the end about SD card. So you claim that Z8 has slower buffer which is not the case. The problem is with SD card, not the buffer. So your test should be described as Z9 with CFExpress vs Z8 with SD. Your camera is only as fast as the slowest component. And you should state that in the video, not in the comment because people will see this video and assume that Z8 is a slower camera. You write to both cards thats fine, I use overflow and thats also fine. But this test is very misleading.
My Z8 tended not to focus quickly using a 300mm f2.8 VRII lens while photographing a soccer game. what focus mode do you recommend best pls. I was on 3D tracking with wide area L and AF-C. Though i was facing the sun with 1/1600 shutter speed which gave me iSO 3200.Thanks sir.
im a hobbiest sports photographer. I have a D500. Love my D500 but want a second body. Prefer something that does better in low light/gyms than the d500. What do you suggest?
Both types of files were going into the same card, versus with two cards, RAW into one, JPEG into the other. For the Z9, it slowed it down. For the Z8, it wasn't hampered by the slow SD card, so it actually performed better. Why the Z8 outperformed the Z9, I don't know. You'll have to ask Nikon about that.
I think you may have a card issue. My Z8 using the Sabrent Rocket Pro 512GB (the copper logo, not silver logo'd card) I am getting roughly 130-135 frames before my buffer fills and takes around 1.5 seconds to clear. lossless compressed at 20fps, 1/1000th.
I was going to write the same. I have a lexar gold 128gb, and the continuous shooting never stops.
Randy Bocksnick(Montana) Congratulations on awesome purchase of your Z8 Jack! Got my Z8 3 weeks ago and the 100-400 lense! I love the combination of the two. Baseball is over here in MT. So waiting for Football this fall- Been shooting some Wildlife, like Elk and Buffalo, but I don't enjoy it very much! For me JACK it's albout High School Sports!! Jack really enjoyed your video on your Nikon's! Randy Bocksnick
Thanks Randy!
Are you writing to both cards in the Z 8? If so, that much slower SD card will be the limiting factor in your buffer tests. I have mine set to overflow on my Z 8 so it will only write to the slower SD when the way faster CFexpress Type B card fills up.
Yes, it was also going to the SD card, which is the way I normally shoot - using the second card as a backup. I clarified that in a part that ended up getting cut, unfortunately. It looks like I’ll be doing a follow up video testing the various parameters of the Z8 buffer performance.
First of all, great review. However, did you compare each camera to the D850. It was the ultimate camera for sports and wild life for Nikon shooters. I am interested in the performance gap between the D850 and each of the cameras. I would weigh that against the cost difference between the Z8 and Z9 before deciding which camera to buy. Also the Z8 and the D850 use the same battery and memory card (one slot on the Z8). So, if you are a Nikon shooter looking to "move up" your batteries and memory cards are still relevant. The batteries are a big issue because of cost and the EV and wireless communication capabilities drain your batteries quickly i.e. there goes your legendary Nikon battery life. Lol
Thanks for your time Jack. Did I miss which CF card you are using ? Because the buffer limits are cards, even CFepress cards. Fred Miranda tried some new CFexpress ones where he kept non stop shooting until card was filled with no slow down
Based on the number of comments on this subject, I'll be posting a more in-depth test in the near future. And yes, in some configurations, the camera will bang away forever - or until the card space limit is reached.
Thanks, Jack. Waiting for your next video on updated setting for the Z9 (sports) but in the meantime, I do believe with everyone's help, I left dynamic AF-Area mode behind - for a custom WA of my design to fit my style of shooting. Seems to handle fast moving sports like Ice Hockey just fine done that way. Thanks as always.
I still use 9 point on my d700 WAIT WHAT? yes I shot motorcross with my d700 and grip yesterday with the 24-70 2.8 still works great after all these years for long work i use the R3 and 100-500
Great overview.. This reasons, battery and the new options in 4.0 is why i like the z9's. The z8 is a GREAT camera and the answer to some people prayers and needs. I shot a 2 day race event for Formula Drift on one z9 battery with thousands of shots.
I think for working pros, it’s a great backup or video camera.
@@JackBeasleyMedia Aside from heating issues the z8 seems of have for long video recording. I rely a lot on muscle memory so button placement to match would be a huge deal for me. Alongside the extra programmable buttons the z9 has to quickly change focus modes and some other options I use them for.
I agree with your eval, clearly nothing of that makes a dent if the person has mobility issues and the camera is too heavy. The other thing you did not mention is that buying a 4K camera when is new and not debugged is risky, and we know Nikon cut costs and weight and went with the composite body. I really love the Nikon Z8 format, and. I may buy one (if the problems stop) at the end of the year, but I need to see how the Z8 goes in terms of quality.
I wasn't so worried about bugs with this camera, at least firmware wise, because Nikon has already had a lot of testing under its belt with the Z9. The two are siblings, essentially. But yes, it can be a problem with new cameras.
I can see the concern when you are shooting sports where action can happen anywhere and you need that big buffer,, If you can afford it always go for the better body as what you need will be there when you need it.. the pricing difference is worth it in the end..
Hi Jack - nice vid - "the buffer fills up quicker on the Z8 than the Z9" -- not in my testing when only using the CFE-B card slot. I am guessing you are not using the highest performance cards. Were you writing to both cards? Your table at 4:45 indicates 15 fps - surprisingly low numbers what cards were you using - performance with the 650GB Delkin Black is far far higher.
Check out the video that followed this one. I go into more detail on this subject.
Interesting. I own both the Z8 (with battery grip) and the Z9, and my experience is a bit different, primarily due to use case. I shoot dog sports (I did coach youth soccer at a high level for 18 seasons, but my camera gear was very basic in those days,) I set both cameras at 15 fps versus your 20 fps. Before the Z9, I was shooting with a D850 and Z7ii (both with battery grips). I thought the D850's 6 fps (9 with the Nikon grip) was excellent compared to my former days with a D7100 and D750. Now, the 15 fps I set the cameras at seems relatively stellar compared to theD850 and Z7ii. I could be shooting at 20 fps, but I find I almost always get that perfect-moment-shot at 15 fps. Perhaps my biggest reason for not shooting at 20 fps is that means 33 percent more culling and card/computer storage. Your video has given me another reason to keep the Z8 dialed down to 15 fps.
Did I say 20? I'm pretty sure I was shooting at 15fps. I've found that extra 5 fps doesn't seem to catch that much more, and it means a lot more images to cull through.
@@JackBeasleyMedia Hi Jack, My bad. I actually didn't hear you say 15 fps, but your chart clearly shows 15 fps. I was probably doing two things at once and listening to the video and occasionally glancing at the screen. I listened to an interesting video the other day by The CameraVille on TH-cam that currently says it's from nine days ago, so around 06/25/23 or maybe 06/26. He runs some simple burst tests with the Z8 using four different CF Express Cards; ProGrade, Sabrent Rocket, Delkin Black and Lexar Professional. He got very different results depending on the card used. I found it interesting because the Delkin Black didn't shine like I thought it would. It also showed different did relatively better with stills than video and vice versa. Given the huge variance in retail cost for CF Express cards, it's worth a look. In my initial comment to you, I said we have somewhat different use cases. In my bigger shoots, I often use two cameras, one after the other fitted with different lenses. I try to keep my bursts to about 2 to 3 seconds giving the camera time to recover. And, I often shoot the bursts with the Z9 while my Z8 will be doing more profile types shots. And, don't get me wrong, I really like your videos. The fact that you concentrate on sports shooting make your videos more relevant to me than most things I watch. Please keep them coming.
I'd really like to know your settings because I've never had such slow continuous shooting times yet with my current CFE card and my Z8. At a speed of 1/8000s with AF-C 3D, the buffer is full at about 70 photos with lossless compressed RAW. The clearing doesn't even need a second in this case. When the buffer is full and you still press the shutter button, my card is still nearly as fast as it was before. Tried this up to over 1000 photos and then released the shutter button.
These slow times you show at your video, I only had once with a really slow CFE card from Integral or with my SD card. You don't write to an SD card at the same time, do you?
I use an Angelbird Pro SE 512GB CFE card.
I’ve got a follow up video coming where I’ll go into a lot more detail on this subject, with a variety of different modes and formats.
What brand of memory card were you using? This makes a difference. Not all cfexpress cards are the same?
I didn't notice the buffer issue unless i am writing to both cards. Only writing to CF card i got 45-47 lossless raw and it shoots at 4-5 fps after that. But when writing to both cards, i get the 1 fps after it hits the buffer. I used Prograde Cobalt 128GB CF card & Sony Tough G V90 sd cards. When shooting High Efficiency* RAW it shoots unlimited.
Yes, the SD card is the limiting factor. But, I always shoot with both cards in place “just in case”, so I ran the test accordingly. It looks like I’m going to have to do a follow-up video where I test buffer performance with both cards in, then only with the CF Express cards, and also in the various RAW file modes.
02:35 on is great info
Great video Jack. Do you shoot sports in uncompressed raw? I compared that to HE* and didn't find any difference so I haven't changed it since. With that I end up with endless buffer on Z9 even at 20fps (which I rarely use). Wondering if you get the same on Z8.
I normally shoot the lossless compressed, which is what I believe you are talking about. The only reason I don't go with the HE* is because I normally process noise reduction with Topaz Denoise and Topaz doesn't like the HE files. But yes, I've never found any difference in quality between the HE* and the lossless compressed.
Hi - interesting video. DId you shoot to the SD card on the Z8 - if so, this threw off your test. Most reviews I have seen clock the Z8 similar to the Z9 when shooting only to the CF Express card (assuming the same card in both cameras etc.)
Thanks :)
-PD
Unfortunately, I didn't make that very clear, but yes, I was shooting to both. My intent was to show like for like performance between the two. With the number of comments and questions I'm getting on this video, I plan to do a follow up and expand the testing.
@@JackBeasleyMedia Yeah - I think it is more fair to express that you were shooting to the SD card as well. If you had only shot to the CF E card the performance would be about the same.
That said, you do lose redundancy which is a thing - especially for a high end pro sports shooter, but for the wildlife community it basically doesn't matter at all - many big name wild life shooters only shoot to one card and when the card is CF E (which virtually never fails) it isn't as much of a thing.
So, although I do agree that there are use cases to get a Z9 over a Z8, it really isn't because of buffer depth.
Just my take :)
-PD
You never mention on the video your chart shows that the Z8 clears the buffer almost twice as quickly as the Z9, which I have to admit seems a little strange to me.
I started to talk about that, but it seemed to drag out the video. I thought the pertinent point I needed to make was about how it performed while it was clearing. Also, yes it cleared quicker - but it had fewer frames to clear.
Jack, question: When you were shooting with the Z8 were you recording photos to both the CFexpress B slot and the SD slot, or to the CFexpress slot only? I understand the slow down in the Z8 if you were writing to both cards. I'm surprised by the slow down if you were only writing the to CFexpress B card.
No, it was to both cards. I tested them based on how I would normally shoot a game, with the second card as backup. So yes, the SD card, even though it’s “pro”, was likely slowing things down.
@@JackBeasleyMedia I get it. Wanting a backup of photos is prudent. SD, even V90, cannot keep up with CFexpress B. It is the unfortunate compromise of having two card slots of different types.
@JackBeasleyMedia I watched it twice to check what you said about the buffer and you mislead people because you state that you used CFExpress in both cameras and only mention something at the end about SD card. So you claim that Z8 has slower buffer which is not the case. The problem is with SD card, not the buffer. So your test should be described as Z9 with CFExpress vs Z8 with SD. Your camera is only as fast as the slowest component. And you should state that in the video, not in the comment because people will see this video and assume that Z8 is a slower camera. You write to both cards thats fine, I use overflow and thats also fine. But this test is very misleading.
As I said above, I tested the cameras the same way I would use them - with both cards in their slots.
My Z8 tended not to focus quickly using a 300mm f2.8 VRII lens while photographing a soccer game. what focus mode do you recommend best pls. I was on 3D tracking with wide area L and AF-C. Though i was facing the sun with 1/1600 shutter speed which gave me iSO 3200.Thanks sir.
I use the face/eye tracking in wide area S for field sports.
im a hobbiest sports photographer. I have a D500. Love my D500 but want a second body. Prefer something that does better in low light/gyms than the d500. What do you suggest?
You might want to consider a used D5. You can get them fairly cheap now that the Z8 and Z9 are out.
How do you explain the higher amount of shots before buffering with RAW+Jpg, it should be less not more?
Both types of files were going into the same card, versus with two cards, RAW into one, JPEG into the other. For the Z9, it slowed it down. For the Z8, it wasn't hampered by the slow SD card, so it actually performed better. Why the Z8 outperformed the Z9, I don't know. You'll have to ask Nikon about that.