Reengineering my procedures. I start with a walnut size stiff starter from my fridge. I feed it the day before baking to the size needed. Do my baking and then by scraping the starter with little water I reform my walnut size starter and store it in the fridge for next session in about 10 days. No intermediate feeding this way. Sometimes I roll a stiff mature starter to very thin pie and then dry it in open air. This is my dry backup starter which can be kept for years on the fridge door in a small plastic container. Break it to dust, feed it a few days and voila you have fresh sourdough starter again. I 've got my mothers 40 year old starter. Rest in peace mom.
I have seen recipes in the past that have asked for stiff starters and I just kind of ignored it and used my regular starter because I didnt know what it was, lol. Watched this video the day you posted it and tried it on some rolls yesterday. Much better result. Thanks a lot, super easy!
I ordered a master class from BBC with Richard Bertitinet. I have his books but they are from twenty years ago. The master class was awesome and he is still a great teacher. He only uses a stiff starter. Such knowledge can and will improve your baking
Thank you for sharing that. I agree, Richard Bertinet is an absolute legend, and definitely someone I look up to! Also agreed on the stiff starter, such a simple yet so powerful thing to have in your baking arsenal. It really helps in so many ways. Thanks for watching!
A few days ago I made my first sour dough loaves shared from my daughter's starter which she shared from her father-in-law. I never knew there were different consistencies of starters. I am so new to this type of yeast. I will be following your future videos, Bry. Thank you.
Yeah, these stiff starters are very easy to work with and make. There are a lot of sourdough recipes out that require a stiff starter! They can be very helpful especially for heavier doughs.
Thanks for the informative video. My formula would be add 60g flour and 24g water to 24g of 100% starter (12g flour and 12g water). This gives us 72g total flour and 36g total water or 50% hydration.
Hey Marc, I appreciate you watching and for the comment. That is a great formula. Mine is a little higher than 50%, one thing I wish I would have said in hindsight is that a stiff starter is between 50-60% hydration. Happy baking! 😁
Thanks for your clear& easy method. Question: How the hell do you get such a bubbly, active regular starter in the 1st place? I’m feeding my 5 yr. old starter like a crazy woman, trying to boost the activity and improve my somewhat mediocre s.d. results. It’s hit & miss for me, sometimes a great ear on a real good loaf, other times not so much! I’ve added rye, used a Brod-Taylor warmer, not used it too! Spent lots of $$$ on crap that may or more likely will NOT work. I’m gonna’ see what you offer & pray for the answer. THANKS! (Sorry for the rant).
Thank you for watching! Its possible that your starter might too acidic, which can happen, especially if you are using a 1:1:1 feeding ratio! How does it smell? If it smells like vinegar that's a sign it is too acidic. If thats the case you could try to fix it with a higher feeding ratio. For example if you normally do a 1:1:1 feeding ratio (ex. 25g discard, 25g flour, 25g water), then you could a higher ratio of 1:5:5 (ex. 25g starter, 125g flour, 125g water), or even higher. The idea is just to keep a little bit of discard. Then you would refeed it with that higher ratio once again after that's had a chance to peak and before its fully declined. I use 20% sourdough starter in my formula for bread, so for my loaf of 700g flour I am using 140g starter, so I typically do the higher ratios for my starter because I am using a lot, and I rarely keep more than 25g of discard in my starter jar. If I have any extra I will store it in an airtight container and freeze it to be used later in discard recipes. That helps reduce the acidity.
I’ve done it both ways! If you make a stiff starter with a regular starter that has peaked, the stiff starter will come up to speed A LOT faster. However, if you're using a regular starter on its decline to make a stiff starter, it will just take longer. It just depends on the time frames you are working with.
Thank you for watching, Joy! I just leave my stiff starter out on the counter to peak. Sometimes if it is peaked before I am ready for it I will put in the fridge to stall it until I am ready to use it.
Thanks for watching! Yes, you can! Usually, I branch off a stiff starter into a separate container for a specific recipe. However, you can easily revert the same jar back to a liquid starter. After you're done using the stiff starter, just increase the hydration back to 100% during your next feeding. Both methods work well!
I need help please 🙏 my starter is on day 3 of the fermentation process and it’s extremely runny and watery. I have a recipe for the starter that asks for 50g all purpose unbleached flour, 50g of water, then you mix those and let it sit for 2 days before you begin to take 50g of that starter and add another 50g of water to 50g of flour to the starter and let it rest another 24 hours., and you do that till day 7, based on the instructions. But the way it is so runny and so watery how would that be good for baking ? And lastly I did subscribe to your channel and I did like your video. If you could help me I really appreciate it. I wasted a lot of flower on starters that I discarded and now I am back on the same place I been with the previous ones. I used Arthur’s all purpose unbleached flower and I have sweet whole wheat flower ., not sure if it matters which I am using to begin a starter ? Also, if I used all purpose bleached flower for the first initial starter would that be a problem!? Anyhow, I got a booklet on the bread recipe BUT honestly this is been quite the frustrating and I been watching one video after the other and it’s a complete mess and confusing. I don’t know your email address so I can’t email you but if you answer here and help me I greatly appreciate it.!
Hey Lily, thanks for subscribing and reaching out. All-purpose flour can make starters really runny. To fix that problem I recommend using a mix of half all-purpose and half whole wheat flour for feeding your sourdough. This should thicken the consistency to be more like pancake batter. Whole wheat flour has bran and germ which provide great nutrients and may also have some wild yeast. I don't agree with the recipe you are using to let it sit for 2 days without feeding, especially if you're starting from scratch. Feed it once per day. I'm sorry that creating a starter has been frustrating for you. It can be frustrating when someone gives you incorrect information and wastes your time. I do have a video on my channel on how to create a starter from scratch that many people have had success with. Most of my experiment videos use a starter made from scratch and is on day 7. It might be worth checking out. I also have a video on how to create sourdough bread from scratch and how to use your starter with that and a video on how to reuse your discard from your starter. As far as email, if you go to my channel page my contact info is on there. Feel free to reach out. Hope this helps! Happy baking!
Is it possible to make a sweet stiff starter from the beginning of the starter process? I am new to making a sough-dough starter. I only am interested in the sweet stiff dough starter, Do I still need to go through the whole process of making the sour starter first?
You technically could, but I think if you are starting completely from scratch it would make things a little harder for you. My advice if you are starting from scratch would be to start with a regular starter, as they are faster to get up to speed (~7 days), and then transition it to a permanent sweet stiff starter once that new regular starter is up to speed.
How do you do this if you do not have a starter to begin with? I like this idea better than the regular feeder, this can just be stored in the fridge , no disgard.
Hey Shirley, you can create a stiff starter from scratch using the same process as for a regular hydration starter. I have a video on how to do this process on my channel called "How to make a traditional sourdough starter | Get it right the first time!". Just adjust the flour-to-water ratios to 50% (100g flour, 50g water, etc.). However, starting with a regular hydration starter is recommended because it's quicker to capture wild yeast at a higher hydration level, and then you can transition to a stiff starter as shown in the video. If you start from scratch with a 50% hydration level, capturing wild yeast might take longer because the drier environment slows down fermentation initially.
Absolutely, no problem at all! In my formulas I typically use 20% starter regardless of the hydration of the starter. Ie, if I am using 1000g flour, I will use 200g starter (20%). You can also use less than 20% of the flour weight if you are intentionally going for a longer fermentation time.
Hello, thank you for the information but would you be able to start a stiff sourdough starter without adding your regular 100% hydration sourdough starter? Thank you, new at this🤣
Hey Isabel, thanks for watching. You can create a stiff starter from scratch using the same process as for a regular hydration starter. I have a video on how to do this process on my channel called "How to make a traditional sourdough starter | Get it right the first time!". Just adjust the flour-to-water ratios in the video to 50% (100g flour, 50g water, etc.). However, starting with a regular hydration starter is recommended because it's quicker to capture wild yeast at a higher hydration level, and then you can transition to a stiff starter as shown in the video. It would also be my personal recommendation to have a regular hydration sourdough starter as your base starter, and then just make a stiff starter from that as you need it for recipes. If you start from scratch with a 50% hydration level, capturing wild yeast might take longer because the drier environment slows down fermentation initially.
Good question - If you're swapping in a stiff starter for a 100% hydration one in a recipe, you will want to tweak the other flour and water/liquid amounts in the recipe a bit. A stiff starter's got less water for the same amount of flour, right? So, if your recipe asks for a 100% hydration starter and you're using your stiff one instead, figure out how much flour and water your stiff starter actually has. Then, reduce the recipe's added flour and water/liquid accordingly to keep everything balanced. It's like making sure the dough ends up with the same overall wetness as intended, despite the starter switch-up. Thanks for watching!
Hey Barbara, you don't need to feed your regular starter and wait for it to peak before using it to make a stiff starter. I've had success both ways. If you make a stiff starter with a regular starter that has peaked, the stiff starter will come up to speed A LOT faster. However, if you're using a regular starter on its decline to make a stiff starter, it will just take longer. It just depends on the time frames you are working with.
Thank you. I like the idea of a stiff starter to cut back on waste. I could actually use some of my discard to make a stiff starter. I’m new at this but want to learn. Again, thank you for your help it is greatly appreciated
Yeah, that is a great idea. An excellent way to reduce waste. You can also store your discard in a container and freeze it, and then thaw it out in the fridge overnight if you want to use it for discard recipes. Lots of recipes out there that make use of sourdough discard, brownies, pancakes, etc. I will be making a few recipe videos on it in the next few weeks.
I have subscribed to your channel and look forward to seeing your videos. I must thank you for making the videos in plain English. I tried watching some videos about sourdough and they either go into the scientifics of the sourdough or they make it so complicated that you get bored and want to give up. I found your video to be direct and to the point and I appreciate that as a rank beginner in the world of sourdough.
Did I understand your comment that a stiff starter reduced the acidity, thus making the resultant bread LESS sour? So, if the sour is what is enjoyed, then a 100% hydration starter is the goal?
Hey Kevin, thanks for watching. Yes, but there are some nuances to that I would like to explain. The lower hydration level we use in stiff starter creates less acid overall, and the acids it does create are more acetic acid than lactic acid. Lactic acid is what we get in higher hydration starters and what emerges in longer fermentation times, and gives you that really sharp sour flavor. In the video I mentioned a lower acid level increases the flavor complexity of the final outcome, and that is mostly referring to both the change in acid type from your starter now being a lower hydration level, and also letting other flavors of the dough come through. Many recipes that call for stiff starters are used in enriched or sweet doughs, with notable exceptions like baguettes. The sugars in these enriched recipes contribute to the development of acetic acid and also boost yeast activity. The increased yeast activity can speed up fermentation times, which can result in a milder flavor, because its not giving lactic acid time to continue developing fully. I think if you are intentionally going for a sour flavor, you would want a starter with a higher hydration as it would produce more lactic acid from the start. Also, to really enhance the sour flavor in my experience using a whole wheat flour since it has the bran and germ included and also slowing down the fermentation time through temperature control can really bring out sour notes. Cooler temperatures tend to slow down yeast activity while allowing lactic acid bacteria to thrive, which also increases the sourness.
@@baked-with-bryI really appreciate you taking the time to provide a thorough answer. I am not much of a sandwich eater so the complex flavors of sourdough are my goal. I will now need to increase my repertoire of sourdough to further educate myself. A sourdough tortilla would be great.
Happy to help, Kevin. I appreciate questions like this because it gives me a chance to elaborate on things I wish I would have said in the video, so thanks for asking!
Unfortunately the math doesn't add up 😬 A 100% hydration 25g starter consists of 12.5g water and 12.5g flour. So if you add 50g flour and 25g you that, you end up with a (25+12.5)/(50+12.5)=60% hydration stiff starter, *not* a 50% stiff starter. To get that instead, you'd need to add (for example) 20g water and 32g flour to 24g of 100% hydration starter...
Good catch! A stiff starter typically has a hydration level of 50-65%. Given the initial use of a regular starter, this one starts at 60% hydration if you follow my exact proportions. However, by consistently feeding it at a 50% hydration rate, the overall hydration will gradually decrease towards 50%.
For centuries it has been called "old dough" starter or "pate fermente". Why are you calling it "stiff" starter? It was "created" long before you existed. The usual way is to just pinch a piece of your fully mixed dough off and put it in the fridge for next time🙈
Thanks for watching! I appreciate it. You know what's kinda cool? I actually read an article the other day where someone found some ancient 4,500-year-old yeast in a clay jar in Egypt, made a sourdough starter with it, and then baked a loaf of bread with it. I also saw another post where someone found a sourdough loaf that was carbon-dated to 79 AD, with the baker's name imprinted on it. It was inside an oven during the eruption of Mount Vesuvius and remained intact. So yeah, you're right, it's a very old process. "Stiff starter" refers to a starter that is between 50-60% hydration. I think you're right that it has been called many different names over time! Why its called "Stiff"? Well its kind of a fitting name when you compare it to a more liquid starter that is 100% hydration! :)
It’s not just him who calls it this way, as you will find searching around the globe. Many other labels given to this such as « Pâte fermentée » and many others, and it’s quite ok. The important is that this "knowledge" doesn’t disappear throughout time!
![[[OFFICIAL MV]] เอิ้นขวัญให้อ้าย- อ๊ะอาย สกุณาพร | ค่ายเพลงเป็นหนึ่ง](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/83x6L3X3qh0/mqdefault.jpg)
Reengineering my procedures. I start with a walnut size stiff starter from my fridge. I feed it the day before baking to the size needed. Do my baking and then by scraping the starter with little water I reform my walnut size starter and store it in the fridge for next session in about 10 days. No intermediate feeding this way. Sometimes I roll a stiff mature starter to very thin pie and then dry it in open air. This is my dry backup starter which can be kept for years on the fridge door in a small plastic container. Break it to dust, feed it a few days and voila you have fresh sourdough starter again. I 've got my mothers 40 year old starter. Rest in peace mom.
Great insight, and thanks for sharing your process with us all! And that is amazing you have your mother’s starter. Way to keep the tradition going!
I have my great grandmother’s 80 year starter
I have seen recipes in the past that have asked for stiff starters and I just kind of ignored it and used my regular starter because I didnt know what it was, lol. Watched this video the day you posted it and tried it on some rolls yesterday. Much better result. Thanks a lot, super easy!
I am genuinely happy to hear that! Thank you for sharing!
I made a 1:2:1 starter, how much should i use to ull out and feed for a recipe thst calls for 69g regular strter? Ty
Thank You!!!
Thanks for watching Karen! 😁
I like your clear, concise presentation style. Liked & subbed. Thanks Bry 👍
I really appreciate that, thank you Nina! :)
I ordered a master class from BBC with Richard Bertitinet. I have his books but they are from twenty years ago. The master class was awesome and he is still a great teacher. He only uses a stiff starter. Such knowledge can and will improve your baking
Thank you for sharing that. I agree, Richard Bertinet is an absolute legend, and definitely someone I look up to! Also agreed on the stiff starter, such a simple yet so powerful thing to have in your baking arsenal. It really helps in so many ways. Thanks for watching!
Thank you! Very informative and easy to follow and understand instructions. Look forward to future videos. 👨🍳👍
Thats so nice of you to say. I really appreciate that, thank you! :)
Very interesting! My daughter actually asked me if I know how to make croissants just the other day, I might need to give this a try!!
Thanks for watching! Croissants are a great example of using a stiff starter. You'll have to let me know how that goes! :)
A few days ago I made my first sour dough loaves shared from my daughter's starter which she shared from her father-in-law. I never knew there were different consistencies of starters. I am so new to this type of yeast. I will be following your future videos, Bry. Thank you.
That’s amazing! Congratulations on your first loaf! How did it go? And thanks for following along. I appreciate it!
quite good though very chewy crust but my husband loved it.
Very interesting! Never heard of it but I'm sure my family would love it. Thank you
Yeah, these stiff starters are very easy to work with and make. There are a lot of sourdough recipes out that require a stiff starter! They can be very helpful especially for heavier doughs.
This helps so much 😊❤😊
Thank you so much 😊
Thanks for the informative video. My formula would be add 60g flour and 24g water to 24g of 100% starter (12g flour and 12g water). This gives us 72g total flour and 36g total water or 50% hydration.
Hey Marc, I appreciate you watching and for the comment. That is a great formula. Mine is a little higher than 50%, one thing I wish I would have said in hindsight is that a stiff starter is between 50-60% hydration. Happy baking! 😁
Great video. I was wondering if you kept the lid loose or tight during fermentation ?
I would recommend always keeping it loose ☺️ thank you for watching
Actually, I like a 110% hydration starter for the simple reason that it is easier to check for doubling.
I love stiff starter
Me too! It is so helpful for some recipes like baguettes and croissants!
Subbed! ❤
Thanks so much! 😁
I think I like this method better. Question do I need to feed my regular starter before I can use it to make the stiff starter? Thank you
Thanks for your clear& easy method. Question: How the hell do you get such a bubbly, active regular starter in the 1st place? I’m feeding my 5 yr. old starter like a crazy woman, trying to boost the activity and improve my somewhat mediocre s.d. results. It’s hit & miss for me, sometimes a great ear on a real good loaf, other times not so much! I’ve added rye, used a Brod-Taylor warmer, not used it too! Spent lots of $$$ on crap that may or more likely will NOT work. I’m gonna’ see what you offer & pray for the answer. THANKS! (Sorry for the rant).
Thank you for watching! Its possible that your starter might too acidic, which can happen, especially if you are using a 1:1:1 feeding ratio! How does it smell? If it smells like vinegar that's a sign it is too acidic. If thats the case you could try to fix it with a higher feeding ratio. For example if you normally do a 1:1:1 feeding ratio (ex. 25g discard, 25g flour, 25g water), then you could a higher ratio of 1:5:5 (ex. 25g starter, 125g flour, 125g water), or even higher. The idea is just to keep a little bit of discard. Then you would refeed it with that higher ratio once again after that's had a chance to peak and before its fully declined. I use 20% sourdough starter in my formula for bread, so for my loaf of 700g flour I am using 140g starter, so I typically do the higher ratios for my starter because I am using a lot, and I rarely keep more than 25g of discard in my starter jar. If I have any extra I will store it in an airtight container and freeze it to be used later in discard recipes. That helps reduce the acidity.
For making your stiff starter, was the regular starter just fed or had it been in the fridge for a few days.
I’ve done it both ways! If you make a stiff starter with a regular starter that has peaked, the stiff starter will come up to speed A LOT faster. However, if you're using a regular starter on its decline to make a stiff starter, it will just take longer. It just depends on the time frames you are working with.
thank you for the video! Did you put in the fridge to ferment for 8 hours?
Thank you for watching, Joy! I just leave my stiff starter out on the counter to peak. Sometimes if it is peaked before I am ready for it I will put in the fridge to stall it until I am ready to use it.
Nice and very helpful. Can you transform a stiff starter back to a liquid one just as easy?
Thanks for watching! Yes, you can! Usually, I branch off a stiff starter into a separate container for a specific recipe. However, you can easily revert the same jar back to a liquid starter. After you're done using the stiff starter, just increase the hydration back to 100% during your next feeding. Both methods work well!
I need help please 🙏 my starter is on day 3 of the fermentation process and it’s extremely runny and watery. I have a recipe for the starter that asks for 50g all purpose unbleached flour, 50g of water, then you mix those and let it sit for 2 days before you begin to take 50g of that starter and add another 50g of water to 50g of flour to the starter and let it rest another 24 hours., and you do that till day 7, based on the instructions. But the way it is so runny and so watery how would that be good for baking ? And lastly I did subscribe to your channel and I did like your video. If you could help me I really appreciate it. I wasted a lot of flower on starters that I discarded and now I am back on the same place I been with the previous ones. I used Arthur’s all purpose unbleached flower and I have sweet whole wheat flower ., not sure if it matters which I am using to begin a starter ? Also, if I used all purpose bleached flower for the first initial starter would that be a problem!?
Anyhow, I got a booklet on the bread recipe BUT honestly this is been quite the frustrating and I been watching one video after the other and it’s a complete mess and confusing. I don’t know your email address so I can’t email you but if you answer here and help me I greatly appreciate it.!
Hey Lily, thanks for subscribing and reaching out. All-purpose flour can make starters really runny. To fix that problem I recommend using a mix of half all-purpose and half whole wheat flour for feeding your sourdough. This should thicken the consistency to be more like pancake batter. Whole wheat flour has bran and germ which provide great nutrients and may also have some wild yeast.
I don't agree with the recipe you are using to let it sit for 2 days without feeding, especially if you're starting from scratch. Feed it once per day. I'm sorry that creating a starter has been frustrating for you. It can be frustrating when someone gives you incorrect information and wastes your time. I do have a video on my channel on how to create a starter from scratch that many people have had success with. Most of my experiment videos use a starter made from scratch and is on day 7. It might be worth checking out.
I also have a video on how to create sourdough bread from scratch and how to use your starter with that and a video on how to reuse your discard from your starter.
As far as email, if you go to my channel page my contact info is on there. Feel free to reach out. Hope this helps! Happy baking!
Is it possible to make a sweet stiff starter from the beginning of the starter process? I am new to making a sough-dough starter. I only am interested in the sweet stiff dough starter, Do I still need to go through the whole process of making the sour starter first?
You technically could, but I think if you are starting completely from scratch it would make things a little harder for you. My advice if you are starting from scratch would be to start with a regular starter, as they are faster to get up to speed (~7 days), and then transition it to a permanent sweet stiff starter once that new regular starter is up to speed.
@@baked-with-bry Thank you
How do you do this if you do not have a starter to begin with? I like this idea better than the regular feeder, this can just be stored in the fridge , no disgard.
Hey Shirley, you can create a stiff starter from scratch using the same process as for a regular hydration starter. I have a video on how to do this process on my channel called "How to make a traditional sourdough starter | Get it right the first time!". Just adjust the flour-to-water ratios to 50% (100g flour, 50g water, etc.). However, starting with a regular hydration starter is recommended because it's quicker to capture wild yeast at a higher hydration level, and then you can transition to a stiff starter as shown in the video. If you start from scratch with a 50% hydration level, capturing wild yeast might take longer because the drier environment slows down fermentation initially.
Can this be used if I do stretch and folds? And if so, would I use the same amount as asked for?
Absolutely, no problem at all! In my formulas I typically use 20% starter regardless of the hydration of the starter. Ie, if I am using 1000g flour, I will use 200g starter (20%). You can also use less than 20% of the flour weight if you are intentionally going for a longer fermentation time.
Hello, thank you for the information but would you be able to start a stiff sourdough starter without adding your regular 100% hydration sourdough starter? Thank you, new at this🤣
Hey Isabel, thanks for watching. You can create a stiff starter from scratch using the same process as for a regular hydration starter. I have a video on how to do this process on my channel called "How to make a traditional sourdough starter | Get it right the first time!". Just adjust the flour-to-water ratios in the video to 50% (100g flour, 50g water, etc.). However, starting with a regular hydration starter is recommended because it's quicker to capture wild yeast at a higher hydration level, and then you can transition to a stiff starter as shown in the video. It would also be my personal recommendation to have a regular hydration sourdough starter as your base starter, and then just make a stiff starter from that as you need it for recipes. If you start from scratch with a 50% hydration level, capturing wild yeast might take longer because the drier environment slows down fermentation initially.
@@baked-with-bry Thank you very much for all the information, I appreciate it!!🙂
How do you use it in a recipe that asks for a sourdough starter with 100% hydration? What changes should one make?
Good question - If you're swapping in a stiff starter for a 100% hydration one in a recipe, you will want to tweak the other flour and water/liquid amounts in the recipe a bit. A stiff starter's got less water for the same amount of flour, right? So, if your recipe asks for a 100% hydration starter and you're using your stiff one instead, figure out how much flour and water your stiff starter actually has. Then, reduce the recipe's added flour and water/liquid accordingly to keep everything balanced. It's like making sure the dough ends up with the same overall wetness as intended, despite the starter switch-up. Thanks for watching!
Question do I need to feed my regular starter and have it peek before I can use it to make the stiff starter? Thanks
Hey Barbara, you don't need to feed your regular starter and wait for it to peak before using it to make a stiff starter. I've had success both ways. If you make a stiff starter with a regular starter that has peaked, the stiff starter will come up to speed A LOT faster. However, if you're using a regular starter on its decline to make a stiff starter, it will just take longer. It just depends on the time frames you are working with.
Thank you. I like the idea of a stiff starter to cut back on waste. I could actually use some of my discard to make a stiff starter. I’m new at this but want to learn. Again, thank you for your help it is greatly appreciated
Yeah, that is a great idea. An excellent way to reduce waste. You can also store your discard in a container and freeze it, and then thaw it out in the fridge overnight if you want to use it for discard recipes. Lots of recipes out there that make use of sourdough discard, brownies, pancakes, etc. I will be making a few recipe videos on it in the next few weeks.
I have subscribed to your channel and look forward to seeing your videos. I must thank you for making the videos in plain English. I tried watching some videos about sourdough and they either go into the scientifics of the sourdough or they make it so complicated that you get bored and want to give up. I found your video to be direct and to the point and I appreciate that as a rank beginner in the world of sourdough.
Thank you I really appreciate that!
Did I understand your comment that a stiff starter reduced the acidity, thus making the resultant bread LESS sour? So, if the sour is what is enjoyed, then a 100% hydration starter is the goal?
Hey Kevin, thanks for watching. Yes, but there are some nuances to that I would like to explain. The lower hydration level we use in stiff starter creates less acid overall, and the acids it does create are more acetic acid than lactic acid. Lactic acid is what we get in higher hydration starters and what emerges in longer fermentation times, and gives you that really sharp sour flavor.
In the video I mentioned a lower acid level increases the flavor complexity of the final outcome, and that is mostly referring to both the change in acid type from your starter now being a lower hydration level, and also letting other flavors of the dough come through. Many recipes that call for stiff starters are used in enriched or sweet doughs, with notable exceptions like baguettes. The sugars in these enriched recipes contribute to the development of acetic acid and also boost yeast activity. The increased yeast activity can speed up fermentation times, which can result in a milder flavor, because its not giving lactic acid time to continue developing fully.
I think if you are intentionally going for a sour flavor, you would want a starter with a higher hydration as it would produce more lactic acid from the start. Also, to really enhance the sour flavor in my experience using a whole wheat flour since it has the bran and germ included and also slowing down the fermentation time through temperature control can really bring out sour notes. Cooler temperatures tend to slow down yeast activity while allowing lactic acid bacteria to thrive, which also increases the sourness.
@@baked-with-bryI really appreciate you taking the time to provide a thorough answer. I am not much of a sandwich eater so the complex flavors of sourdough are my goal. I will now need to increase my repertoire of sourdough to further educate myself. A sourdough tortilla would be great.
Happy to help, Kevin. I appreciate questions like this because it gives me a chance to elaborate on things I wish I would have said in the video, so thanks for asking!
Unfortunately the math doesn't add up 😬 A 100% hydration 25g starter consists of 12.5g water and 12.5g flour. So if you add 50g flour and 25g you that, you end up with a (25+12.5)/(50+12.5)=60% hydration stiff starter, *not* a 50% stiff starter. To get that instead, you'd need to add (for example) 20g water and 32g flour to 24g of 100% hydration starter...
Good catch! A stiff starter typically has a hydration level of 50-65%. Given the initial use of a regular starter, this one starts at 60% hydration if you follow my exact proportions. However, by consistently feeding it at a 50% hydration rate, the overall hydration will gradually decrease towards 50%.
For centuries it has been called "old dough" starter or "pate fermente". Why are you calling it "stiff" starter? It was "created" long before you existed. The usual way is to just pinch a piece of your fully mixed dough off and put it in the fridge for next time🙈
Thanks for watching! I appreciate it. You know what's kinda cool? I actually read an article the other day where someone found some ancient 4,500-year-old yeast in a clay jar in Egypt, made a sourdough starter with it, and then baked a loaf of bread with it. I also saw another post where someone found a sourdough loaf that was carbon-dated to 79 AD, with the baker's name imprinted on it. It was inside an oven during the eruption of Mount Vesuvius and remained intact. So yeah, you're right, it's a very old process.
"Stiff starter" refers to a starter that is between 50-60% hydration. I think you're right that it has been called many different names over time! Why its called "Stiff"? Well its kind of a fitting name when you compare it to a more liquid starter that is 100% hydration! :)
It’s not just him who calls it this way, as you will find searching around the globe. Many other labels given to this such as « Pâte fermentée » and many others, and it’s quite ok. The important is that this "knowledge" doesn’t disappear throughout time!