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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 มิ.ย. 2024
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Mod list: Proper Save, Water Tweaker, JP's AV Effect Options, Risk Of Options, Debug Toolkit, Stutter Stunter Fork, Item Exchange Notifier, HistoryFix, Item Display Removal, Mandr, Actually Faster, Faster Interactable Balancer, Reduce Recycler, Early Spawn Boost, Fix Rex Crash, Raynglish, Skin Tuner and Photo Mode | modcode 018fe815-e7c4-91e9-f81b-e60a3b956092
Playlist:
Undertale OST - Another Medium
Castlevania Rondo of Blood - Op 13
Castlevania Rondo of Blood - Bloodlines
Jeroen Tel & Maniacs of Noise - Cybernoid II
Lonely Rolling Star - Katamari Damancy Remix
Qumu - Terraria Underground Remix
Shovel Knight OST - In The Halls of The Usurper
Shovel Knight OST - High Above the Land
Crypt of the Necrodancer OST - Metalmancy
#riskofrain2 #eclipse #raydans - เกม
Man, I’m starting to enjoy just coming back every few days to read the new paragraphs of angry people who think they know better then the former streak WR holder lol
pinned
Me fighting the ror2 community after staying in a stage for more than 5 minutes (it's a cardinal sin)
I've been in this fight for 3 years. Welcome in
@@raydans Oh trust me I've got the whole powerpoint ready I've been here a while
Personally I know that fully looting a stage is technically better but I just like to go fast because I’m impatient
I can't wait to see the new comments saying "Well you were playing Desperado Bandit, a character that scales in damage much better than some of the others because of the guaranteed crits and stacking special damage!"
You could almost argue desperado makes it more difficult. Sure, you're overpowered as all hell by the end of the first 30 minutes, but you're just as weak as any other survivor the moment the second 30 minutes starts because your stacks don't carry over stages and they are *hard* to get rolling if you're underpowered.
@@underdoug Your rebuttal that "you could argue it makes it more difficult" and then the way you reasoned for it are contradictory. Even if it only makes stage 1 easier and then you're the same power level as any other survivor (except Poison Acrid) is still Desperado making it easier for a portion of the run and not being worse at other points.
Either way, the stack resets are effectively a nonissue if you're decent at the game because every stage has enemies that let you get stacks easily enough with full looting. Taking the extra time to get those stacks and full loot actually plays entirely into the point of the video that "it's always better to full loot and time doesn't really matter," which makes the stance you propose fragile.
yeah i was literally about to comment "now do it without desperado"
@@Xeconis well yeah, I acknowledged that the argument was a stretch by saying "you could *almost* argue". I did that specifically because I know the argument is weak. I wasn't really rebutting your comment as much as attempting to addiction two the broader discussion.
Besides, I genuinely think Raydans could do this challenge with just about any survivor, but he's probably in the top 0.01% of players so, while impressive, it doesn't have as much impact in convincing people about the timer as otherwise, desperado bandit notwithstanding.
Step 1, be professional player.
Step 2, ignore the timer.
Step 3, win.
5 mins per stage is still *way* wrong though.
I mean it’s always said in every video that tries to ‘debunk’ fulloot v time, fullloot is just gambling with the time you could’ve saved for more items that will keep you ahead of the difficulty, so the biggest thing is knowing whether you can rewardingly fullloot or not. You got a recycler? Go nuts. Get bad items and you can’t reroll em… oh well 🤷♂️
The one time you wanna burn time is the one time your recycler pops off lmao! Amazing vid as always!
I will sit on any stage for as long as I need to to reroll literally everything I don't want lol
The one benefit about this run is that you don't have to manage your time whatsoever. You can spend as much time rolling pots as you need because you need to hit that 30 minute mark eventually
I mean I do anyway lol
Woolie is the bane of all ROR2 streamers and youtubers, having spread the word of the 5-minute stage so early on
I have mixed feelings about Woolie, but I feel like people took the advice he gave regarding the 5 minute rule way too seriously. In the video he encourages being aware of the timer and spending time on things you think are worth it. The 5 minute rule wasn't a "rule" it was a generalization to help newer players who hadn't gotten a feel for the game, which he made clear in his video by directly stating "it should not be taken literally."
@@sagehanson190 Like i said, he just spread the word early on so it became well known, though he did preach it a lot at the time.
@@sagehanson190 Yeah, he always prefaces all of his advice by saying that it should be taken as a general rule of thumb to be supplemented by your own personal game sense. If people can't do so then that's on them, not Woolie.
@@sagehanson190 I would argue new players should never aim to finish a stage in 5 minutes, because it will just have them speedrun the TP instead of properly exploring.
What's important is not _wasting_ time, which is a skill that mostly comes with experience
I've always decided to ignore the timer simply cause I wasn't good enough to keep up with it, but this video helped me show a friend to not worry about 5 mins per stage so neat
Even when going fast I Usually find myself exiting a stage after 7-9 minutes. 5 minutes just really isn't enough to get a good amount of loot, and the extra few minutes barely affects difficulty.
5:55 "one must imagine sisyphus happy"
if he took 30 minutes per stage, then how come the video is only 30 minutes total, heh, check mate full looters
dang...caught
Dan, you are one of the main reasons that this game is more of a blast than a pain for me! I always hated trying to pull off 5 minutes a stage. Thanks for leaning into your opinion on time! I am a firm believer that you are right!
thank you man, I love hearing stuff like this
5 minutes is the *minimum* you should spend on a stage. It's almost impossible to even *search* an entire stage in as little as 5 minutes, let alone also fight things, do macro, *and* charge the teleporter. Time is probably a tertiary factor to consider when playing, not even secondary.
If I'm on stage 1 and the timer is 12 minutes, I have a monster-tooth and I know there's a scrapper on the opposite side of the stage, I'm probably gonna move on without scrapping it, but that's about as far as I think time is worthy of consideration. If I end up fighting Mithrix with that monster-tooth still in my inventory because there weren't any other scrappers along the way, it's not gonna break the run.
Personally I'd still scrap it, 1-2 extra minutes will barely affect the difficulty but an extra item for printers/cauldrons could absolutely make the run way easier
I might go for the scrapper even if im 15 min in
there is literally no situation I don't go scrap that monster tooth
@@raydans even if you have 0 speed? There are 4 more stages that might have a scrapper that isn't so far out of the way. I mean, you have 5x the hours playing that I do, so I'm hardly in a position to argue. Just seems like a waste of a couple of minutes for a single white scrap. If the whole argument is that items scale you faster than time scales the enemies (which I whole-heartedly believe), then what scaling am I getting in the 1.25 minutes it takes both ways to traverse the stage to turn a mediocre white into functionless white scrap? Cause the enemies are scaling for those 2.5 minutes. I am, unfortunately, not mechanically skilled enough to compensate that much for a significant lack of items. Once I've fully looted the stage I have to wrap it up somewhat quickly otherwise I personally end up outpaced (pot-rolling is an obvious exception), even if that means I have to miss out on micro optimisations, which I consider this scenario to be. Once I'm a couple of stages in I can typically start to focus more on optimising because by then I'm itemed up enough that I have a buffer on the scaling and (typically) any optimising I do at that point will scale me faster than the time it takes will scale enemies.
i absolutely will go for it because there is never any guarantee that you'll get another scrapper. I saw one scrapper today in 4 runs unfortuantely lol. Item macros will make you stronger than time makes enemies stronger
Videos like this remind me of when I just started playing and everything seemed so hard and felt like even getting through a single stage was an accomplishment. I eventually developed into more loot is better than going fast. One of the biggest things for me to get better wasn't so much trying to implement advice but to just play and get more knowledge of just...things.
The game really does reward the time you put in to just learn in general, like most games sure, but the payout feels so much bigger when everything just clicks and you can feel how far you've come. Eclipse in general really pushes you to learn what playstyles suit you best and that time really isn't something you need to worry about in most cases.
Side Story: My friends put way less time into this game that I did and started saying it was too easy cause I kept carrying them too hard. So I implemented a lot of the harder artifacts and they learned that the game will always find a way to beat you down if you try to find one.
first time i played ror2, i inevitably ran into the 5 minutes a stage strat as a beginner, tried to do it, and quickly felt that 5 minutes was too little to work with per stage, so i just completely stuck with spending more than 10-15 minutes a stage just to get items, and that worked best for me lol
great vid btw, keep up the good work
30 minutes a stage, 30 minutes a video.
What if you had a reverse Benthic Bloom effect? Every new stage, three items decrease in rarity.
Would probably be pretty broken lol. Red items are usually strong yet sorta niche effects that don't stack particularly well (which is fine because normally you don't get very many), while whites tend to be straight stat boosts that therefore are great to get lots of
hmmmmmmmm
What if reds turned into whites? the cycle would continue forever lmao
@@abra_escaped could be cool if white regressed too, like straight up dissapear, or broke, or give negative effect
@@thehellfromthemountaint or just turned into lunars with heavy downsides like glass
Do a run where the only items you can use are sharp objects!
I mean that is basically just a capped bleed build with razorwire and shurikens...
But he cant sprint because running with sharp objects is dangerous
@@FishieUwU syringes are also sharp. He can also use the sawmerang, the scorpion is also technically sharp, etc.
18:38 average console experience. (I wish I was joking)
Bro a voidtouched hermit crab ran through the wall and I couldn't kill it for 10 minutes
ricks of rabne ... tree
strom⛈
@@underdoug mosnoon
You know what? You're right.
Obviously time has an impact, that's why you had bosses spawning on stage 2. But that was when it was pushed to extremes. I usually do a nice mix of fast and looting, usually getting the full stage or close to it while trying to go fast. But I definitely will be leaning more into the "loot full as long as you aren't bein super slow dummy" mindset. I haven't ever played eclipse difficulty, so if it's not a problem with it, it definitely won't be a problem on monsoon. Thank you for your informative presentation, you have convinced me.
I love this comment so much. I'm glad I could help
@@raydans yeah :D I was going in thinking time was way more important but clearly I was (at least somewhat) wrong. I wanted to put a reminder in the comment section of coping children that people ARE capable of being civil lol :3
As a certified Sacrifice, Command and Swarm Enjoyer. This is peak information
Honestly some of the best advice that I heard that allowed me to finish Eclipse 8 was averaging one item roughly per minute.
While it doesn’t have to be exact, I found myself often having 3-5 items by 2-3 minutes. Sometimes I would be one item under but usually I would have 2-3 items more than I would’ve thought by the time I go to the next stage. It also helped me know when I just wasn’t being productive and wasting time because I wasn’t getting items and was just lingering around maps.
Time never really bothered me, I never understood why people even tried to rush 5 minutes per stage because at the end of the day, it’s your progression. People act like there’s a meta in this game revolving around time when the only true meta is you being able to have fun and still progress. Thanks for sharing this video, hopefully it makes people break their poor speed run mindset when it’s not necessary at all. (Beat all of eclipse 8 on every character, usually average 8-12 minutes per stage but never care if it goes longer
I think this is proof that time absolutely matters, it's just not the only thing that matters, and there's no such thing as a lost run until your HP hits 0 if you know how to dodge. Like, you had an unbelievably cracked recycler run with multiple charged perferators, crit synergies, and a huge proc chain, and still nearly died like 5 times because enemies just do that much damage. Managing your time well and finishing a stage fast negates some of that 1-shot danger, but it's always possible to just avoid the hits entirely, and if you can do that, the scaling doesn't mean gg.
I remember playing the OG risk of rain and being confused at why the game seemed to imply the time mattered. In this kind of game, either you're snowballing so hard you'd have to be intentionally throwing to lose, or you're not snowballing, and you're boned regardless. Since the only metric of success in this game is snowballing, you MUST loot, you can't ignore chests to skip stages unless you're confident you'll kill Mithrix with whatever you have right now.
It's the same in a lot of roguelikes, Binding of Isaac being a famous example for the vast gulf between "Immediately reset because I got hit once and lost my devil deal" and "I literally cannot die thanks to jank item interaction".
TBOI is the perfect example of always winning because you spent 30 minutes in a single floor min maxing every single interaction
I have had multiple dogshit mult t runs recently where I was coping at fifty minutes stage four yet didn’t regret playing as slow as I did because full looting and macro was the only reason I was able to pull off those runs
Like people don’t realize how big of a difference one item can make to a build
I was coping and then found an ignition tank for my gas I had and suddenly I was able to play stage five and finish mithrix by like two hours
You and race have made me appreciate the macro and depth this game has and it has rekindled my love for the rougelike genre and I now enjoy a game as much as FTL which was my previous preferred rougelike
I think another big thing I realized watching you play a lot is how different E8 is from monsoon. I've never messed with Eclipse because curse always seemed annoying as hell, but after looking into it I think the 'optimal strat' playing on monsoon is actually different from how you play. Never made an annoying comment or anything but always thought 'man this guy is looting slow' but then i caught a winstreak stream and realized you were simply BUILT DIFFERENT! Now I kinda want to work on E8 but it seems like it would take so long and the next DLC is almost here anyway so I may wait a bit.
well the thing is if my strat works on the way harder mode then it's going to be even stronger on the easier difficulty. Thank you. I appreciate it
Full looting efficiently and macroing items thoughtfully whilst moving at a brisk enough pace that keeps the game fun and somewhat fair with scaling is how I like to do it, I'll find every chest and use every needed scrapper and printer, but I'm still going to have fun moving at mach fuck while doing it
"Another Medium", fitting music for the Northern Hemisphere right now.. Especially folks in the southern US.. Also, what is it about RoR2 stream highlights that use retrogaming music (or neo-retro) that makes them so enjoyable to watch?
I always full loot. As long as you have the skill to beat higher level enemies and the items to deal with them too, mainly AOE, you are fine
Curse was an ever looking threat here
Alright give me your best cope reasons why time DOES matter in RoR2
There are in fact things you should be doing rather than Risking your Rain, such as eating food, bantering with yourself in the mirror, and roof tiling
You must make haste
I have a session of dungeons and dragons in less than an hour. I need to go fast!
well i need to do this important work, and the deadline is tomorrow, so if i only spend 30 minutes to beat a full run by going 5 minutes per stage, I can get my work done on time
okay but just one more round
just the one, I swear
Going for a gauntlet PB :D
As much as the difficulty increase over time is redundant as long as you're full looting, being inefficient with your time can still make your run a lot harder than need-be.
When i play mul-t i can get up to 20-30 minutes
In every stage cuz i love how he feels to play
When i play commando i reach sky meadow in 15 to 20 minutes,becaus i love how he plays!
One is tanky and gives me the feeling of an actual terminator with one goal,to destroy or if you may,terminate all life in this planet,and commando is just fast as fuck ninja who can shred through enemies and while not having very good mobility,after you complete godspeed
Which shows you this is the best way to play the character,he gets much more mobility,you never have to stop shooting,if i try to get a long run with commando i kinda hmget bored,yet with someone like merc i get the same feeling ad mul-t,why does that happen? Idk,he is way faster paced than commando, like its not even a competition,yet i like taking it slow at times
I got back into ror2 the last few days and i take around 10 minites per stage bc i allways full loot and do the boss at the end, sometimes i look at the time and be like "damn i wasted so much time" but usually i don't care, i could cut on time an prolly do around 7 min but why should i if i have fun full clearing every stage?
the only thing you ever need to do is full loot efficiently and you'll have the most consistent runs possible :) it helps when you have fun doing it too
I always take forever. I don't really see any point in caring how long it takes unless I am going for a specific unlock.
Make a video where you play with what is, in your opinion, the best loadout, but you can only use the 15 worst items, and then race against one of your friends who is using the worst loadout with the best items
loader and bandit can win itemless pretty sure
@@ThomasSantosCanal1 acrid too
worst loadout would win easily. in fact i guarantee you i could win the worst loadout with like 5 items. just give myself drone parts, empathy cores, safer spaces, feather, and a wungus. easy. maybe id take the other 10 items as speed and another feather.
@@ThomasSantosCanal1 railgunner as well
I just started playing, is it better the shotgun or the rifle on bandit?
I prefer shotgun but both are fine
defo true, but if you want an easier time speed running is a genuin strategy. Great video!
Yeah imo as long as your good at the game time definitely doesn’t matter at all. I kind of enjoy the challenge which is why I scale up the difficulty all the time
An idea: only items that summon creatures(polyp, happiest mask, spare drone parts, nucleus, empathy cores, halcyon seed, queen's gland, defiant gouge, newly hatched zoea, goobo, the back-up)
Alternatively, only items that spawn something unconnected to the player(in addition to the previous list, bundle of fireworks, monster tooth, war banner, bandolier, ghor's tome, lepton daisy, will-o'-wisp, razoewire, ceremonial dagger, defensive microbots, interstellar desk plant, resonance disk, tesla, nkuhana's opinion, little d, urn, egocentrism, mercurial rachis, polylute, voidsent flame, forgive me please, gnarled woodsprite, remote caffenator, capacitor, effigy of grief)
hmmmmmmmmmm
I mean so the 30mins are over the top but I dont think e.g. Mando couldve even handled Stage 2
30 minutes per stage is a COMPLETE non issue if you play with Sacrifice, lol.
But even vanilla the scaling isn't really that crazy. I think it mostly comes down to good strategy, if you know where to be and can avoid getting hit you're probably good. The random boss spawns does make it more difficult, but they're not any worse than the teleporter usually.
well sacrifice is clearly broken lol. But yeah efficient full looting all the way
isn't the sacrifice meta just to sit on stage 1 until you're op?
@@a_cats probably. I know that prior to SotV you could sit in vields forever because time didn't scale, and so you come come out to stage 2 wildly overpowered for the rest of the run. You can probably still do something similar at Gold Coast.
@@SoupRoutine Gearbox reverted the void fields change so it's op again, now even on normal runs since it has chests and time gets paused :(
@@a_cats oh right I forgot about that. It's less busted at least in a normal run because if the enemies get the wrong items you just die. That's my opinion, anyway. I'm not super great at the game.
objectively correct survivor choice
What's your opinion on Blast for bandit? It seems very underwhelming imo.
I don't like it. Lower proc co and weird amounts of bloom
I have a hard time believing this because I spent a whole hour in one stage after beating it completely, the next stage obliterated me, but I will keep an open mind
I love this comment
I always try to show people in co op time doesn't matter, they agree then they die and i feel stupid making the stage alone...
run where you can only use your least favorite items
Aside just adding to the myriad of "I got better things to do other than RoR2" comments, I will say that I'd rather feel like I'm actually getting stronger instead of having basically the same level of damage but with more VFX sprinkled on top as at the start of Stage 1. And if I *do* want to play a game where my time efficiency matters, I can boot up RoRR
wait, couldn't you have rerolled the legendary in the Bazaar shop after spawning it with the recycler?
yeah but it would be a pretty big risk considering a lot of reds are awful and he only gets one reroll
@@bonsaiclub just wanted to ask to know if it was possible
yeah definitely possible but yeah just so many bad reds I don't want
Does it work in ror returns tho? Dunno, just always died on moonson after first loop from oneshots
returns is a whole different ball park. Not a clue lol
the thing in ror1/returns is that avoiding damage is significantly harder, so the ever-increasing enemy damage, alongside more spawns and elites from more director credits, WILL destroy you if you're too slow
ror2 could probably achieve this by introducing enemy behaviours that throw a wrench into the standard e8 player strat of running a circle around everything. would love to see how that pans out :3c
Besides advice from people, the biggest misunderstanding is how powerful items properly are. The difference between having even a useless item and not having one at all is tantamount. You might not think so but that trash item might be printed into something that greatly improves your build. Its abnormal compared to other roguelikes, but items are so strong in this game the timer is far outweighed by it.
it only would have gotten easier if you decided to loop
I still rather take 5 minutes and loot the entire stage rather than 30. Time matters, but items matter more.
I mean the point is that you should full loot efficiently but even if you don't you can still win. DO NOT spend 30 minutes on a stage please lol
I've been a full loot stage player since day 1, and I don't intend to stop
Based
5:47 Sisyphus 💀
how do you get your stages to those colors? looks cool
it's called dan aesthetic, it's in my discord :)
@@raydans thanks man
"im gunna be spending half an hour PER STAGE to show you that time DOES NOT MATTER and YOU can do the same!"
one crit and spleen build, 2x cherfs, cores, 8x crowbars, recycler, 6x opals, atg, plute, 7x bands later:
I agree with Dan that time doesn't really matter in this game (in fact I basically never look a the timer in game), but this is not the run I would've used to try to prove that point. 🤣
God forbid people get lucky in risk of rain 2. Idk man I get it’s a bit lucky but it’s kinda silly to be like “you can only prove your point by getting shitty items!”
@@PolrisTired its sarcasm mate i agree with raydans
yeah it's almost like the 30 minutes was to push it to the limit and I got good loot by full looting 🤔
@@vani1030 full loot goes crazy
sending this to my friend who thinks full looting is too slow
Now do this with the mod that removes the level cap on enemies :p
insane item luck
It's not real crit if it's from the front. It's called sparkling damage.
you should do a challenge where the enemies get items and you scale with the time level.
hmmmmmm
I remember this taking a few attempts to get off the ground 🤔🤔🤔
it's almost like 30 minutes is being done to push it to the extreme 🤔
haste makes waste 🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
I also like collecting most of the items no matter how long it takes, but have you considered Deez nuts?
Well, to a certain extent time matters, especially without looping, but obviously full looting >>>>> rushing tp
wish you could make skills or item doesnt matter
Didn’t do voidling run invalid
I just started and my best stage is stage 4.. I started using this sherriff guy he is so good. I also spend almost 10 plus minutes per stage collecting all boxes and stuff :)
I love hearing these stories. Keep at it man. Just focus on dodging a little more and just keep full looting efficiently and you'll be golden
@@raydans I love the support man.. I'll make everyone proud with a god run one day, much love. I love youtubers like you that actually care about the community
Why not do risky mod?
what dat?
Now spend an hour on every stage
When are you going to use the void portal? Not just the Null portal, but the Void portal.
as in the portal that takes you to the void locus?
@@raydans yes, the "proper" way to fight voidling
can't do that in eclipse o7
Welp, there goes one more excuse I can't use
this gave me a chuckle lol
Who needs to manage time when you have EPIC SKILLS!? (i dont have epic skills i have to manage time)
I think that especially with the Void DLC, the fact that there are more items in general that can make your builds significantly stronger make it so much more worth it to full loot. I know that this video is meant to be an extreme version of showing that the 5 minute rule is kinda BS but it made a lot more sense when you didnt have items like delicate watches, polylutes, and shrimp that can just absolutely break a build with all your other items stacking on top of them. I havent looked at any of the spoilers for the dlc, so i have no idea what is coming along with that dlc, but i have a feeling that the game is gonna get even easier full looting once there are even more items to vary builds further. (I hope that they add more eclipse levels as the game gets easier)
The only reason the rule existed was simply someone saying what worked for them. I don’t understand why people shit talk it so much.
I personally don’t have good luck so I don’t spend extra time unless I see a recycler.
I watched this video after doing an E2 run with REX and I'm completely confident that the only reason i won was because i full-looted the Sky-Meadow and got shrimp. The only other damage items I had were watches, syringes, and sticky bombs. Everything else was movement and utility, which is certainly alright... but plimp absolutely carried the damage numbers.
On the other hand, I'd say that a lot of runs would still be doable full-looting and going for everything, even without the DLC items, it'd just be much more of a struggle and would require more skill and situational awareness which are something that ultimately comes with practice and time, something that a lot of people, especially beginners, won't have.
@@in00yasha The problem is that it makes the game needlessly harder. New players will give up if they're doing what they think is the best strategy and still losing most runs
More subjectively, it's also way less fun to be under so much pressure to go fast
@@a_cats Well it’s a rogue-like streamers simply lose runs cause that’s the seed.
But if you can’t efficiently clear a stage like a new player can’t then you could easily be adding a 15min penalty that had negative gain.
@@in00yasha I agree newer players are bad at looting efficiently and they tend to make bad choices with items so it's tempting to tell them to just rush so they don't get outscaled but that doesn't actually address the problem
For them to get better at the game they really need to learn looting paths, practice circle strafing, learn items and their synergies, and so on. Caring too much about the timer will only get in the way especially if they want to learn more advanced strategies like item macro and coping teleporters in bad runs
I cant remember if he did a run as rex
Do a run as rex
Cough cough
I don't know if you have done this challenge or not but make every chest also a combat shrine
I have not...I like that
Sweet hope to see it
Insane loot, it was said before but I dunno if using a goated run as your evidence is really the play- Especially when its on bandit. Do it with Commando and see if the little commando that could keeps up with a mid/average run
It's a goated run because I take my time to min max the best I can which is exactly why time doesn't matter. And what does bandit have to do with it? Also the point of this is to push it to the limit. At no point should you be spending 30 minutes on a stage.
dan you cant really say time doesn't matter when you are hard coping until you get rng carried by the recycler
well the 30 minutes a stage is to push it to the absolute limit and I was able to get good loot because I min maxed and played smart whilst ignoring time
Inb4 "bUt rAyDaNs ThAt'S jUsT oNe RuN!!! yOu JuSt GoT lUcKy"
That is quite literally fulllooting. You need enough good items to make the loot worth and how do you get loot? RNG wow crazy.
@@in00yasha it's really not as bad as you think, in normal runs this guy has a >90% winrate and once he reached 51 wins in a row (and that isn't even the WR anymore, another guy beat it and guess what, he full loots too). Most runs have good enough loot to not be a problem and even the really bad ones are winnable if you're patient
As far as I'm aware no one has even got close to that level of consistency by playing fast
@@a_cats glad to hear what works for them, I don’t do it cause it bricks my runs
@@in00yasha It's probably not full looting that's bricking your runs, maybe check out Dan's win streak streams or RuddyCub (the guy who beat the win streak WR) on twitch, it might help you figure out what you're doing wrong
@@a_cats a big thing that can stop a new player is simply the fact that your runs won’t be won by one decision, but a massive system of decisions and to lose the game its the total opposite.
Rikse of rane
This video is one stage and two minutes long
Worms are truly the predecessor of Xi Construct, but its hard to give them hate with how good their boss items are
why do the stages look so ugly with like a bad filter?
"stage aesthetics" mod, because modders dont know what art direction is
funny you just posted this cause i just did the loader challenge in 18 minutes, it was funny how easy xi constructs and magma worms were with less than one row of items. i pretty much just rushed tp and killed bosses, looted very little and the easy enemies were really apparent
Were you on e8?
pics or it didn't happen
loader is super good at speed running for sure. I am curious what difficulty you were on though. Because 18 minutes is rores race time. Could have ourselves a new racer
@@raydans it can't have been eclipse since that loader achievement requires obliteration instead of winning the run
The fact of getting recycler on stage 2 just nullifices at least half of the scaling due to the good items, Lmao
You got good items by full looting so full looting doesn't count 👀
@@raydans I don't wanna argue, but you truly must understand the influence of early recycler on quality of items. And you also must know that you may not found any equipment on even first 3 stages.
This video proves nothing. Not that 30 minutes is good, not that full looting strat is good(but it is actually true). The only fact you can accumulate from the given experience - recycler and gilded coast are imbalanced.
This is just fun challenge run imo, not more
I may not have found a recycler but I may havfe found a scrapper and a printer. I may not have found a recycler but I may have found good loot in the bazaar. I may not have found a recycler but I may have found a tricorn and had a good boss.
This situation was one of tonnes and the common ground they all share is full looting efficiently. That's the bit. that's the purpose. Not 30 minutes a stage. Clearly that was just done to push it to the limit. But only doable by full looting because items make you stronger faster than time makes enemies stronger.
@@raydans true, but recycler is one item, one case, making all continuous of your run better, this is much stronger than visiting a pair of good printer and scrapper. Usually in the run you must make a choice of scrapping before you meet build option. You have a lot of options in game, but they are still random, so, imo, in maybe about 70% of runs this challenge would be unable to complete/too hard, so you will need to waste an hour per stage kiting a cloud of enemies through the map.
But I want to mention that visiting bazaar is just really good option to make your run better. From abusing frozen void and buying some lunars to picking stage and making a chance of finding good item soup in there. Way more impact on run than choosing a strategy, I think. At least it must be equal
Do people still seriously think time matters?
read some of the paragraph long comments in this video :/ unfortunately yes
now do it with commando
To
It does matter, but the game doesn't become impossible. the timer is literally a difficulty meter that increases over time. Enemies scale with that meter. So the game naturally gets harder as the game goes on. Harder and more numerous enemies means that full looting becomes more difficult, especially when you're extraordinarily underpowered due to wasted time.
So, yes, you COULD spend 30 minutes sitting still doing nothing, then whittle down the enemies in the next stage hopping around projectiles and running for your life the entire time...... but why? Why would you do that? I guess to make a video, that's what. XD
Clearly you shouldn't spend 30 minutes a stage. You hit the nail on the ehad with the video concept lol. But yes time does not matter if you full loot efficiently
was gonna like but its at 666 lol
But.. it does matter lol.
I...disagree
@@raydans i think the takeaway most people are missing from this is that it isn't so much that time 'doesn't matter' but rather that time doesn't have to be the center of your gameplay style. you can take the time to fully loot a stage while still being conscious of how much time you are spending and considering optimal routes plus risk/reward in regards to luck-based actions. like you have said in many other comments you should never (and probably never will) end up spending 30 minutes per stage, the point of the video is to show that even then you can still hold your own with the items you get and your own skill at the game. this all sorta bottoms out to the ideology of 'take your time and do it right', emphasis on the do it right. spending 30 minutes a stage or completely skipping over items to shave a few seconds off both qualify as doing it wrong, i would say. it is all about finding a good balance and not forcing yourself to speedrun the game because you saw someone else do it... :3
I hope the guy at the start who asked you to "please do 5 minutes a stage" was joking. Cause bro has a lot to learn talking to a world record holder for Eclipse 8 wins in a row 💀💀💀
To speed run the game of course, what bozo speedruns by being slow?
Time does matter to extent. Especially to new players. New players have no idea abou the stage layouts and where to look for loot or the tp. Even for pros like you and me, theres no gurantee you are going to have a good run just because you have more loot. This especially true for eclipse when a lot of the items are nerfed in eclipse.
Eclipse is cool, but its the antithesis to the entire game. Does it make you better at the game? Yes. But so does monsoon. The devs understand it is meant to be bullshit hence why theres no reward other than a personal trophy(gold eclipse).
I play both ways. Be quick and full loot. Once you understand how the game works, map design, and how the enemy design works, you can easily do both.
For newer players learning the maps wouldn't you say spending more time on the stage would make them learn the stages quicker? The loot if on the ground too, there is no real skill in finding loot.
And I don't get the eclipse comparison? If full looting works consistently in the harder difficiculty then it's going to work amazing in Monsoon.
And you're saying that you play both ways? So you're agreeing time doesn't matter? I'm so confused by this comment
@@raydans That argument seems very convincing at first glance, until you realize the new players dont know anything about how to avoid or mitigate damage in the first place so the scaling time will catch up to them. Furthermore, they have no idea what the items do as well, so full looting isnt guaranteed to be consistent.
Eclipse nerfs a chunk of items and thus making the whole "making of a god run of what you have" appeal of the game becomes more difficult. Will eclipse make you better at the game? Yes. However it also skews your look on how the some of the items were designed. My philosophy in this game is that I see every item that isnt a curse or consumed has potential to be an end game build. And no im talking about contributing to scrap. However, eclipse destroys some of the appeal of the item design for me. You have to play on a very specific gameplay path most of the time. Monsoon and Eclipse are very different in design. Monsoon, while being easy once you understand the game, doesnt limit any items potential, thus making the personal appeal of "making a god run of what you have" there. And Scrappers and 3D printers are an excellent touch to this appeal as well. It gives you player agency to an extent on what you want kinda of build you want to do. Eclipse, while the player agency is still there, is limited and it feels you have to focus your build in a very specific path.
My point of this last comment is that you can easily do both once you get better at the game. This is because you understand the map design, where to look for loot, where to find the teleporter, and most importantly how to avoid damage. Theres nothing wrong with full looting, but at the same time there isnt anything wrong with rushing. Both have their strengths and weaknesses.
If they have no idea what the items do, then how is picking up less items going to teach them what they do?
Again I do not get your eclipse argument. It sounds like you just don't like eclipse. If time doesn't matter in the objectively harder difficulty, then why would it matter in the easier modes?
And at no point did I say you aren't allowed to rush tps. I'm saying time doesn't matter in this game period.
@@raydans Full looting wont make much of difference since some items give vague descriptions, they wont understand the synergies, and they wont know how to use 3d printers or scrapers. They wont understand how these items work until they do all of the above.
For the eclipse argument, I'll spell it out. Items like healing, minions, on damage or on 25% health, lunars, and some debuffs, specifically slows are nerfed. A huge appeal, at least to me, is winning a run with what you got. Since these items are nerfed, its hard to make use of said items if you couldnt find anything that would help you in eclipse(aka on-hit or raw damage). As for the skewed idea of the item design. Since eclipse nerfs items, its going to give you in most cases just one certain build path. Which is more boring. I know you arent him, but Race thinks that all of the "bad" items are poorly designed except for fireworks. He had this idea because of playing eclipse. A vast majority of players dont play eclipse or probably not gonna touch it. Now to answer your last question, "if time doesnt matter in harder difficulties why does it matter in general?" First of all, you have way more experience with the game than 98% of the player base. You understand how the game works. A lot of people dont understand all the nuances of this game. Second, in eclipse not only is items nerfed, but gold gained as well. 20% maybe doesnt sound that much but it does make a noticeable difference. You could say "well if gold is harder to earn would it make sense to take my time?" Yes and no. Yes since you are a pro you can since you know how to deal with every enemy. No, because it could also mean your death as enemies are stronger, probably are elites, and if your playing eclipse attack more often and are faster. This doesnt sound like much to you and I, but to most of the players its going to be quite a task. You can make the same argument for rushing. Also I do like eclipse. Hell I wouldnt of done my solo eclipse 8 series if I didnt. And you bet ya im going to do the 3 dlc characters when they come out. I just prefer to play on monsoon since the huge appeal are not limited.
I never said that you think that. Im just saying that time to an extent does matter. Im not saying its the ultimate end all and be all to what is gonna be a run. Im just saying that both playstyles have their appeals and weaknesses to them. You full loot and get good runs. Glad that works for you. Though you gonna consider the skill level of most of the player base. They arent up to par like us pros. That may sound condescending for me to say that but its true. If these players do get eclipse 8, congrats, but its not gonna be an easy journey. You have to understand the game if you are gonna beat eclipse.
Again if they find items, scrappers and printers confusing, then how is getting less items and being less exposed to them make them learn quicker?
This entire middle paragraph is so confusing to me. Just for starters, I have 4000 hours in this game and 3600 hours of that have been spent full looting and that's where I learnt how to play the game and where the item synergies work. The first 400 were spent rushing and hating the game because I just died and didn't understand the items. I can not for the life of me follow your thought process on eclipse and it being harder when the discussion is that time doesn't matter. I am sitting here showing you that time doesn't matter and you keep moving the goal posts every time. is it because eclipse is boring? Or because it's harder? Or because new players find it hard? What is your argument because I honestly don't know. The discussion is time doesn't matter. And it in fact, does not matter.
Again, if you want to rush, then you can rush. you even can have good rush runs. But I really want to send this point through. Time does not matter in risk of rain 2 and there is no meta based around time
"30 Minutes per stage!" *video is 32 Minutes long*
Not a 180m run for the 6 stages, unsubscribed
dude gets 2 overloading worms in 1 stage
I have 212.4h of ROR2 and never seen one
bro...
You are playing either too quick or not hitting enough mountain shrines, or don't loop
@@itioticginger9520 I loop sometimes, and hit all mountain shrine I see
I don't think I play too quick as well, besides the first stage I usually take my time... also the only mods I run are qol ones (like auto sprint and better hud)... so.. unlucky I guess, will try to loop more and focus on stages that it shows up when I get them on bazar
@Synest2 u can also watch raydans streams so u can actually see him play, that's a grat way to get better
@@Synest2 It still is a pretty rare boss, like I think I only saw one in my entire E8 climb
This is inherently flawed and stupid. I have no idea why you would think this is proof of anything. It changes nothing. No one who is good at the game is going to change their mind about anything and no one who is bad at the game needs to hear this because they are bad and they're just going to fuck up anyways
I don't even have to get into the good reasons lol You skip the time, so you skip the biggest issue. The absolute largest problem. The longer you wait means you're more likely to fuck up. This is the largest issue for new players and why they should aim to work relatively quickly.
If you're good, you can do whatever you want. You can beat the game with JUST fireworks. It is silly. If you're bad, just chill. Move quicker. Don't fuck around. Just grab the drops in a row and get moving.
Well since you were so polite about it.
The best people at this game (the people with the highest win streaks in eclipse 8 and the fastest racers) all play this way, so the "good" players don't need to have their minds changed because they already agree with me. And your thoughts on "bad people will just mess it up" is wild to hear because I have no idea how you've ever got better at anything if you don't practice and mess up. Like how do you get better at things? I'm genuinely curious?
And I'm guessing you didn't actually watch the full video because on the last two stages I'm on the stages for actually longer than the 30 minutes and the real issue with time doesn't kick in until you progress stages anyway. When you move to the next stage the enemy level increases by 15% and the speed of time increased is 15% faster. So anybody full looting can sit on stage 1 and 2 for hours and just run in circles and live forever.
But I do somewhat agree with your last statement. In the fact that you should just full loot and get moving. Full loot as fast as possible and time doesn't matter 👍
1. So, I am right
2. Using the same people who have been mindlessly grinding RoR2 for years as a form of measurement is still terrible. Don't. They don't matter. They mean nothing. They'll do fine if they spend 2 minutes per a stage.
3. Progression for new players is best done by moving through the game. Wasting your time with anywhere close to 30mins a stage is just asking for something to go wrong or your mom to tell you to go to bed lol Terrible idea. Just play the game and move through it. You'll get your unlocks, see more mobs, see more stages, and be able to develop the way you want to play.
not a complicated process here tbh
Well you're right that the better players won't change because they already play like I do. Not entirely sure why you brought that up then if you're response is just "I'm right" but anyway. But I'm still curious how you expect people to learn without trying the strats that the more experienced people use.
The people that have "mindlessly grinded" ror2 have the most experience and understanding of the game and got that way by playing this way. I also used to rush tps and it was when I started playing the way I play now that I actually learnt the game and got better and get told daily by others that they have the same experience. Again I am really confused to your point here. Also they won't be fine playing 2 minutes a stage, we have races every week with the best players in the community and they constantly die playing about 3-4 minutes a stage so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
And if you can find a point at which I say that you should play 30 minutes a stage then I'd love to see it. I still agree with you though with this statement. You should just loot quickly and get off the stage. But the essence being full looting efficiently. Loot the entire stage as quick as possible and get off. The 30 minutes is me pushing it to an unreasonable level to show it can still be done.
I mean it is true that full looting n getting the best possible gear is the best strat due to how strong items are in ror2 (especially since dlc) but damn you couldnt have picked an easier character to do it with and gotten better items lol
Also been seeing some smartypants players tell this advice to new players who dont even understand how items interact with eachother yet, which is just terrible and ends up not working for them frustratingly to them. And personally I cant lie not caring about time is just boring for me, almost the same run every time
I mean - difficulty increases with time, so of course it matters!
I mean, here is the thing, I don't care if you spend more time in a stage as long as you have stuff worth doing in there.
But you going to the extreme of saying time does not matter is just factually incorrect. Enemies scale with time and while I know that stage count scales them even more, the fact is in an average run you won't hit the level 99 cap for enemies, meaning the time you waste makes enemies harder.
It's all about being aware of what is on the stage and wether or not it is worth the timeinvestment.
Sure, it could be some good item in that one chest across the stage you didn't loot yet, or it could be worthless. It's all about making the decision on wether wasting the time for that potential item is worth it or not given the current state of your run.
So claiming that it's always best to full loot and that time doesn't matter is wrong.
What you are doing here is the same thing as what you're trying to fight.
Woolie is the reason most people stick by 5 minutes per stage, but Woolie made it VERY CLEAR in his video that the 5 minute rule is NOT an absolute rule, but rather an average newer players should look out for. He specifically stated, whenever he talked about it, that more experienced players will be able to tell when looting further is worth the time investment and when it's not, so the 5 minutes were just meant for beginners who don't have that feel for the game yet.
Yet here you are saying the total opposite but contrary to Woolie you DO present it as an ABSOLUTE.
So again, I don't think looting further is necessarily bad, I think you talking in absolutes and calling it cope to say time does matter is just horrible.
Because time mattering in the difficulty scaling equation of this game is an OBJECTIVE TRUTH. It is not cope as you claim.
And spending a lot of time per stage and still winning doesn't prove that it doesn't matter, it just shows you're good at the game.
For example, people can beat elden ring on level 1 with unupgraded weapons.
Does that means levels and weapon upgrades don't matter? Obviously not.
But that's the stupid logic you're using here :/
An actual PROOF that time doesn't matter would be to showcase that enemies do NOT scale with time or at least scale in a way that's negligible.
But you can't showcase either because they DO scale with time.
To end this on a good note, to anyone who reads through this, let me repeat, I am NOT a 5 minute purist. Judge if the loot is worth more time or not and act accordingly.
Always full looting is NOT always the correct choice, and always going for 5 minutes is also NOT always the correct choice.
You have to be adaptable and observe the stage properly as you go through it to make the best decision for each given stage individually.
Time doesn't matter if you full loot efficiently. Sorry if you don't agree 👍
@@raydans
I love how you ignore the categorical proof I presented, the fact that time is a variable in the enemy scaling curve.
It is OBJECTIVELY a case by case thing.
Sometimes full looting will yield better results, often times it will not. Why? Because you have no idea what items will drop. Even if I explore and loot as efficiently as possible, the items may be trash.
And even if I find something to help with damage, if I don't have any mobility yet and play a low mobility survivor, the time taken to get there and to get the exta money if needed may scale the enemies more in relation to the damage I gained, so effectively I lost damage.
But I guess math is too hard for you to understand that going for a damage item can possibly LOSE you effective damage relative to enemy HP with the time scaling?
Seriously, your answer just makes it clear you don't ACTUALLY want to discuss this topic or convince anyone, you made NO arguments.
If you truly want to make a point about this, then why would you not want to give ARGUMENTS for why what you said is true?
Again, just winning while wasting lots of time simply proves your skill at the game, it doesn't change anything about the scaling stuff.
So you brought exactly zero arguments to the table, yet still act cocky and ignore all proper arguments brought forth.
That's actually pretty pathetic and kindergarten levels of arguing :/
Collectively in the Eclipse 8 community alone we have about 20000 hours play time between about 6 streamers, all with the largest win streaks in a row ranging from 48 to 62 whilst rotating the survivors and they all agree time doesn't matter if you full loot efficiently. You say I'm ignoring your proof? I say you're ignoring the rest.
@@ardynizunia9709 You said that sometimes full looting is better and sometimes rushing is better because items might be trash. I'm curious what you would do in practice with this strat. If you start off with some bad items do you start rushing so the scaling isn't as bad or do you loot more to hopefully get better items? Conversely if you start with good items do you just start rushing or do you keep trying to get items because you can easily handle the scaling? To me it seems like always full looting all the time is the safest and more consistent strat. For 99% of runs the items you get are good enough to win the run so why decrease your chances by not getting every item?
@@ruddycub
Basically you got it yes.
It mainly depends on two things:
1: Awareness of the stage as I am traversing it. You should almost never just sit at a chest and farm money for it, as the TP event gives plenty of money. So going for the TP is most often the correct play, and while you go for it, you observe the stage as best as you can while you traverse it. That will allow you to properly estimate how much loot you left behind and how fast you can get to it, which is important in deciding wether it's worth it or not.
2: What you said about item quality affecting my decisions is absolutely correct. If I have a great run going, the chance of the time invested for another item not being worth it goes up DRAMATICALLY. Inversely, if the run is going bad and I won't be able to keep up with scaling, then going for more items becomes absolutely correct.
And to answer your question at the end, because there are a lot of items in RoR2 that will not benefit you at all in a multitude of situations.
It could just be bad on your specific survivor, or it could be something like an ICBM but you didn't find any ATGs the entire run, making it useless.
There is a big variety of such scenarios, so by spending extra time when you're strong enough already, while you still may win the run, you are basically just wasting time and making the run a bit harder on yourself.
So again, the real answer is simply to adapt.
Oh and let's not forget one very real component to all of this. We have real lives too, so it would be optimal for me, as a human, to not spend unnecessary time on a run when I am strong enough to win already. Full looting just takes away time at that point.
But even if we look at it just as game theory and ignore real life components, I still believe that what I explained above is optimal.
Because there are a lot of items that offer less power than the enemies obtained via timescaling in the time it took you to get the item.
Meaning, going for that lepton daisy and bandolier effectively made the enemies tankier than they were before.
Hope that clears it up.
Thanks for actually questioning things and not just being a clown that isn't interested in actual discussion like the guy who posted the video.
Have a nice day mate.