Fantastic interview Steve! Essential insight into the current state of the contemplative neuroscience field! I’d love to see more interviews like this one 🙏
LOVE that he's talking about review and integration after an awakening experience. I don't think integration is discussed nearly enough. People can have very profound experiences, and what to do with them when they go back to their day to day lives can be a challenge without support.
There has been another study done that is in pre-print looking at brain scans of Zen students in their practice, and Diamond Way Buddhist in the "dissolving" phase of the 16th Karmapa meditation. The results were interesting. The Diamond Way students had great results.
It's interesting because the jhanas are not necessarily considered to be signs of attainment in Mahayana/Tibetan Buddhism. I wonder what the neural correlates would be to the bhūmis and to visualization meditation--I would imagine that the generation stage is supposed to light up several areas of the brain at the same time
~The God Helmet reminds me of the story-"The Magic Hat Shop" Sad Sally becomes happy. Timid Tim becomes confident, joyous and outgoing. Mean Maurice became compassionate. The arrogant mayor becomes friendly. The townsfolks didn't want to take their hats off, even in the shower and in bed. ~then a windstorm came a blew all the townsfolks' cell phones away.
I'm skeptical that you could, even with the Dalai Lama's help, say ok, this is enlightenment, or because the Dalai Lama thinks tis guy sis enlightened and that one isn't that well, then off you go, you hook him up to the gizmo and check out his neurons. Thats the whole problem, because we can't conceive of it, and because we need to conceive of things as deluded beings, we have concepts not enlightenment. Also we are in a relative universe so, that guy is enlightened from the Dalai Lama's perspective but not from say Lama Garchen's perspective, I think Lama Garchen would just crack up laughing if we asked him, "So Lama Garchen, who's enlightened? We wanna hook him up to this neuron scanner!" Or "Lama Garchen, whaddya say, is old Buffalo Bob an enlightened being?" "Well of course he is if you are enlightened!"
is this making the idea of enlightenment something as substantial/materialistic-technological spiritual materialism. I have logical/philosophical problem with this, not at all with tech, measurements, science an so on. F is E, E is F basic formula of spirituality in general.
@@wiwidityIMHO enlightenment can come from changing your brain through meditation. Neuroscience can help you to meditate effectively. I guess there are many ways to become enlightened, I'm interested in neuroscience.
Call me old fashioned but I don't buy the premise that technology will be able to make people enlightened quicker. The purpose of meditation is to learn how your mind (not brain) works, and not to outsource that learning to a computer. Also, spiritual development is a process of growth that needs time and maturation. If you pop a pill or zap your brain and have an "enlightened experience" does that equal a lifetime's work of becoming a good and wise person? I don't think so. Sad to see so many Buddhists getting on the band wagon of the techno utopia, it's a dead end.
Why do you think enlightenment is a state that requires life time? Are you not born enlightened? Did you not have inner light presence at childhood ( the enlightened state) ? Then no work can retrieve it . If its in you, its in you and vice versa. All you need is truthful life and transparent heart neither yoga nor rituals nor prayers. Otherwise i should never had in childhood days and remains the same as i never learnt it from books. Its a natural state of subconscious mind. Unfortunately if learnt from life or external sources, its a simulation or imagination. These states can be verifiable via devices. Get some education and its clear that you are in matrix unable to be enlightened and thinking of bypassing or knowing more. A child has no knowledge but it has it! Cheers
Thanks for the comment. I think the problem is that nowadays everyone has their own definition of enlightenment. What you describe as enlightenment might be fine for you, but I don’t think it agrees with what the Buddha referred to as enlightenment. As a Buddhist I follow the Buddha’s description. In Buddhism enlightenment can be defined as a complete freedom from craving, aversion and ignorance (including the underlying tendencies for them). I am not free from these afflictions so I don’t consider myself enlightened. And I don’t think that neurofeedback device could get me there. As for the kids, I have two. They are great, I love them. But they are not beyond craving, aversion and ignorance. Most kids aren’t. Good luck to you.
@ that is a simulation then. If a system cant retrieve its older restore points then it is sourcing from external world. Such are simulations. This is why it is said seek within , not whin buddhism as you would want to replicate the philosophy. However there is a degree of nihilism advaita or buddhism infiltrated the system. Its a common embedded covert process and the system mostly is unaware due to lack of mindfulness and self observance. Anything that is external is simulation. Enlightenment is only one. Hinduism started this notion by krishna. Its there way before than him. Buddha is only a philosophical figure and krishnas are many. We have no way to go beyond the religions as they are just marketing tools of it. I stopped all religions some time ago. And the same state within remained intact. Every religion claim their own ways but admits its within. Christianity: the kingdom of god is within! Buddhism: doesnt give any insight much apart from a non existed figure buddha ( myth) and projected enlightenment doctrines on him as if its external Hinduism: advaita and other gitas: you must work hard via kundalini ( manually forcing the inner process; however this never natural then if forcing. Yet it has some uses) Taoism: Tao is with an unknown child. It doesnt claim nor label it. And the world now is hesitant to accept what natural is because of the mayas of religions taboos to doctrines as they labelled it in their own brands. Btw there are more non dual radical enlightenment happening but none of them have inner light except ones own earlier consciousness ( subconscious 2-8 years). If this is not experienced at childhood buddhist call not a bodhisatva but science says everyone is like a bodhisatva no special. However if the childhood was traumatised or troubled by narcissism and violence, the innocence state of consciousness ( subconscious) develop poorly and no restore of healthy state can be retrieved. So i leave my writing even though its trivial for you. Nice chatting.
I love the neuroscience on this stuff, that being said I think people get too serious about science, not realizing that even the things we feel so sure about because that’s what science says! can at any moment be dismantled and replaced with something new and more accurate. I’m both pro science and against people who lean on it too much.
Fantastic interview Steve! Essential insight into the current state of the contemplative neuroscience field!
I’d love to see more interviews like this one 🙏
LOVE that he's talking about review and integration after an awakening experience. I don't think integration is discussed nearly enough. People can have very profound experiences, and what to do with them when they go back to their day to day lives can be a challenge without support.
Haven't had such a good laugh in days. 😂 You made my day.😅
Extremely interesting timestamp descriptions!
“Premieres at 6 am”
Looking forward to this!
There has been another study done that is in pre-print looking at brain scans of Zen students in their practice, and Diamond Way Buddhist in the "dissolving" phase of the 16th Karmapa meditation. The results were interesting. The Diamond Way students had great results.
link?
It is in pre print so no link. Sorry
It's interesting because the jhanas are not necessarily considered to be signs of attainment in Mahayana/Tibetan Buddhism. I wonder what the neural correlates would be to the bhūmis and to visualization meditation--I would imagine that the generation stage is supposed to light up several areas of the brain at the same time
~The God Helmet reminds me of the story-"The Magic Hat Shop"
Sad Sally becomes happy.
Timid Tim becomes confident, joyous and outgoing.
Mean Maurice became compassionate.
The arrogant mayor becomes friendly.
The townsfolks didn't want to take their hats off, even in the shower and in bed.
~then a windstorm came a blew all the townsfolks' cell phones away.
I'm skeptical that you could, even with the Dalai Lama's help, say ok, this is enlightenment, or because the Dalai Lama thinks tis guy sis enlightened and that one isn't that well, then off you go, you hook him up to the gizmo and check out his neurons. Thats the whole problem, because we can't conceive of it, and because we need to conceive of things as deluded beings, we have concepts not enlightenment. Also we are in a relative universe so, that guy is enlightened from the Dalai Lama's perspective but not from say Lama Garchen's perspective, I think Lama Garchen would just crack up laughing if we asked him, "So Lama Garchen, who's enlightened? We wanna hook him up to this neuron scanner!" Or "Lama Garchen, whaddya say, is old Buffalo Bob an enlightened being?" "Well of course he is if you are enlightened!"
is this making the idea of enlightenment something as substantial/materialistic-technological spiritual materialism. I have logical/philosophical problem with this, not at all with tech, measurements, science an so on. F is E, E is F basic formula of spirituality in general.
Why don't you wait for the video before announcing that you have a problem?
@@drmtwr a lot of in description made me do it. will watch the vid
@@wiwidityIMHO enlightenment can come from changing your brain through meditation. Neuroscience can help you to meditate effectively. I guess there are many ways to become enlightened, I'm interested in neuroscience.
@@drmtwrhe just gave you an answer.
Rig
Call me old fashioned but I don't buy the premise that technology will be able to make people enlightened quicker. The purpose of meditation is to learn how your mind (not brain) works, and not to outsource that learning to a computer. Also, spiritual development is a process of growth that needs time and maturation. If you pop a pill or zap your brain and have an "enlightened experience" does that equal a lifetime's work of becoming a good and wise person? I don't think so.
Sad to see so many Buddhists getting on the band wagon of the techno utopia, it's a dead end.
"Imagine a World Without Cell Phones vs Cell Phone Zombies" on You Tube
Why do you think enlightenment is a state that requires life time? Are you not born enlightened? Did you not have inner light presence at childhood ( the enlightened state) ? Then no work can retrieve it . If its in you, its in you and vice versa. All you need is truthful life and transparent heart neither yoga nor rituals nor prayers. Otherwise i should never had in childhood days and remains the same as i never learnt it from books. Its a natural state of subconscious mind. Unfortunately if learnt from life or external sources, its a simulation or imagination. These states can be verifiable via devices. Get some education and its clear that you are in matrix unable to be enlightened and thinking of bypassing or knowing more. A child has no knowledge but it has it! Cheers
The very concept of so-called enlightenment is a utopia. So there's no difference.
Thanks for the comment.
I think the problem is that nowadays everyone has their own definition of enlightenment. What you describe as enlightenment might be fine for you, but I don’t think it agrees with what the Buddha referred to as enlightenment. As a Buddhist I follow the Buddha’s description.
In Buddhism enlightenment can be defined as a complete freedom from craving, aversion and ignorance (including the underlying tendencies for them). I am not free from these afflictions so I don’t consider myself enlightened. And I don’t think that neurofeedback device could get me there.
As for the kids, I have two. They are great, I love them. But they are not beyond craving, aversion and ignorance. Most kids aren’t.
Good luck to you.
@ that is a simulation then. If a system cant retrieve its older restore points then it is sourcing from external world. Such are simulations. This is why it is said seek within , not whin buddhism as you would want to replicate the philosophy. However there is a degree of nihilism advaita or buddhism infiltrated the system. Its a common embedded covert process and the system mostly is unaware due to lack of mindfulness and self observance. Anything that is external is simulation.
Enlightenment is only one. Hinduism started this notion by krishna. Its there way before than him. Buddha is only a philosophical figure and krishnas are many. We have no way to go beyond the religions as they are just marketing tools of it. I stopped all religions some time ago. And the same state within remained intact. Every religion claim their own ways but admits its within.
Christianity: the kingdom of god is within!
Buddhism: doesnt give any insight much apart from a non existed figure buddha ( myth) and projected enlightenment doctrines on him as if its external
Hinduism: advaita and other gitas: you must work hard via kundalini ( manually forcing the inner process; however this never natural then if forcing. Yet it has some uses)
Taoism: Tao is with an unknown child. It doesnt claim nor label it.
And the world now is hesitant to accept what natural is because of the mayas of religions taboos to doctrines as they labelled it in their own brands.
Btw there are more non dual radical enlightenment happening but none of them have inner light except ones own earlier consciousness ( subconscious 2-8 years). If this is not experienced at childhood buddhist call not a bodhisatva but science says everyone is like a bodhisatva no special. However if the childhood was traumatised or troubled by narcissism and violence, the innocence state of consciousness ( subconscious) develop poorly and no restore of healthy state can be retrieved.
So i leave my writing even though its trivial for you. Nice chatting.
hope they don't do some really silly, science-effacing bs to approximate causes of low level attainments.
nonetheless psychedddd!
I love the neuroscience on this stuff, that being said I think people get too serious about science, not realizing that even the things we feel so sure about because that’s what science says! can at any moment be dismantled and replaced with something new and more accurate. I’m both pro science and against people who lean on it too much.
This guy is a biznessman.. brand blah blah not feeling it!