It raises serious questions when Delson charges $300 AUD for a 30-minute session. Even psychiatrists, who undergo a decade of rigorous training and carry substantial student debt, don't charge this much. This highlights the importance of ethical practices in spirituality. Certain lineages, like Sanbo Zen, stand out by prioritizing accessibility-many of their sanghas don't charge for consultations or Koan practice. It's a refreshing contrast and a reminder of what authentic teaching should prioritize. I also never got a refund from a TWIM retreat when I let them know 3 weeks in advance. The page said they would 'consider' refunds. I told the TWIM organisation that I have had financial problems, and couldn't make it as I had to work away. They didn't give it to me. Not short of money though! As an ex monk gave them over 100k US as a donation recently. Money hunger is always a red flag that is easy to spot.
i have learned a lot from some of your more genuine guests who aren't so caught up in their own personalities, but there has to be more discernment when it comes to people coming on the podcast. the genre of "enlightenment" comes with a lot of delusional, big egos who are so excited to be picked up by a channel so that they can sound enlightened for a couple hours and boost their reputation. maybe i'm being cynical here, but when i listen to those mystics who don't talk about "enlightenment" or their prophetic experiences, i get a much better vibe from them... i used to listen to your channel more often but i've become frustrated by the amount of discernment i have to do with these guests who are caught in their own line...
I recommend everyone to watch the interview with a former twim monk. I am truly dissapointed at these softball questions for this cult leader. They basically scammed a property and 60k out of an aspiring monk then kicked him out. I'm gonna give Steve the benefit of the doubt of not having seen that.
And enlightened activity is simply without the Doer. Regardless of the activity itself. It could be having sex. watching a movie, meditating, or sleeping. Doesnt matter. But it matters for the unawakened as they live within the small confines of their own mental illusions. The Buddha had to take a shit too sometimes.
this quote is so overused. like, seriously. maybe it's just me. and also, it kinda implies something, but it's out of context and i don't think the intent of Suzuki Roshi and the implication of the out-of-context quote are one and the same.
@@hippiechixxhi silly rabbit here is a quote by Suzukis students student: “I do not believe in over-romanticizing enlightenment. There is already plenty of that nonsense going on in spirituality, and it doesn’t serve anyone. I would say that something on the order of 95 percent of suffering can be overcome with deep spiritual realization. But in the end, freedom is not measured by the amount of suffering that we are immune from, as much as it is measured by the amount of freedom, love, and courage that we can embody. Enlightenment doesn’t save one from every bit of the unpleasantness of life; it reveals our essential unity and wholeness.” ~ Adyashanti “A Revolution of Being: Embracing the Challenge of Awakened Living” 2018 Online Retreat
TWIM and Delson have really blown themselves up in the last year. Some people in previous years may have thought Delson an Arahat and TWIM a rapid quick way to enlightenment. Now Delson is a polyamorous Arahat who kinda sorta denounced his own attainment on last Guru Viking and TWIM seems a real rogue's gallery of manipulation and abuse.
@@wolfk2258 feels like he just used Bhante Vimalaramsi and then once he passed decided to stop pretending to not suffer even the slightest bit of stress.
@@wolfk2258 Delson has never claimed to be an arahat. Please link to anywhere he has claimed this as I’ve never heard that and I’ve been following him for quite some time. Thanks
@@PlasticAccountif you are interested in this stuff, you should see the other Guru Viking episodes with Delson and the Being Untangled channel. This question has been asked and answered before. Delson has claimed to have achieved fourth path which is Arahatship. The previous Guru Viking interview with Delson is even entitled that he renounces his attainments. What attainment do you think that refers to? See Ep 120 and also Ep 136 with Daniel Ingram. Delson isnt exactly shy about talking about his path attainments. If now he's trying to back away from saying "Oh technically I never PUBLICLY said I was an Arahat!" -- this really is being slimy.
@@wolfk2258 When he talked about 4th path attainments in those Ingram interviews, it seemed more like he was inferring what would happen/how life would be like. Let’s assume someone is a streamenter or sakadagami. From there it really wouldn’t be too far fetched for that person to discuss what 3rd or 4th path/fruition might be like. (Note: I have no idea which attainment he’s at when I was saying streamentry or sakadagami, as he’s never mentioned it publicly)
Ep290: Answering Critics & Kriya Yoga - Delson Armstrong I found some additional critiques in text and audio format. On Suttavada by Oleg Pavlov, Pavel Katagorin An analysis of the Suttavada/TWIM doctrine promoted by Bhante Vimalaramsi, Delson Armstrong, David Johnson and their disciples. 87 pages. ~Internet Archive "What's Wrong With Suttavada's TWIM" on You Tube ~Oleg Pavlov
Another spiritual teacher that is finally telling the truth is Adyashanti: “I do not believe in over-romanticizing enlightenment. There is already plenty of that nonsense going on in spirituality, and it doesn’t serve anyone. I would say that something on the order of 95 percent of suffering can be overcome with deep spiritual realization. But in the end, freedom is not measured by the amount of suffering that we are immune from, as much as it is measured by the amount of freedom, love, and courage that we can embody. Enlightenment doesn’t save one from every bit of the unpleasantness of life; it reveals our essential unity and wholeness.” ~ Adyashanti “A Revolution of Being: Embracing the Challenge of Awakened Living” 2018 Online Retreat
Now that I'm watching this episode it's pretty clear to me what's going on. Delson made a mistake; he doesn't want to fully own that mistake or lose money because of that mistake. So instead, he claims to be "recontextualizing the traditions within a broader framework" and "syncretizing methodologies" in order to make it appear as though he was right, even when he was just wrong.
Depends. He bought into the belief that he could be a pure being. In reality there is nothing holy about this. So I annihilated self and world at 18. It felt like amnesia. I had to first grapple with my senses. Then I had to form thoughts in order to understand words. Then I had to form constructs to help me navigate the world. So for me it was more pronounced and sudden then his most likely. From what I have found rarely does what occured to me occur to others. Then again I had no teacher I studied in a library took the techniques I wanted to try and arrived at my mental death and mental rebirth. So 2 years after my mental rebirth I was where delson appears to be now. That is he is losing his baby hood and becoming an adult again. Cause my first 2 years I was for all intents and purposes like a baby. Asexual and without fetters. But the self and world ultimately reassert themselves after this event. I call it the still point of the turning world. Since the world was turned through that still point or origin as Lao tzu would state. We all know the origin once we have experienced it. And he shows it.
So as a kid I did dreaming meditation self inquiry deity yoga psychedelics self enquiry but if you ask me it was horse stance meditation that caused my sudden shift. The overcoming of pain was the trick. Shinzen highlights it I this video. He says the native americans would undergo Sundance and then die and be reborn. This is not a literal death. It is what happens when one has annihilated self and world. th-cam.com/video/gYSSf71Vo7w/w-d-xo.htmlsi=3UJHnbijRUhc4vpO
I'm a scientist though so I didn't have the baggage of religion or lineage. Still learned how to pull it off though. The old texts are easy to decipher once you realize it's all based off human experience and that human experience can change depending on the era due to how knowledge effects mind. The experience remains the same the philosophy, description, and terminology changes though by alot. Humans are very artistic and metaphorically inclined even more so the further back one looks. th-cam.com/video/kuM1b5QhRsM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=FJjthJCTWw9-FuZW
Great interview! Delson has been incredibly helpful in my meditation practice so far, and I haven’t come across anything that contradicts my own experience. However, I’m shocked by the negativity in the comments-even entire channels dedicated to clickbait with negative thumbnails. I didn’t realize there were people claiming to follow the Buddhist path while harboring so much hatred.
It's like a gossip/drama TH-cam channel for such a tiny audience that would really know who or what it's all about. Dude is possessed. I wonder if he is an actual monk or just larping
@@jasonjenkins8910hahaha I thought more Dhamma, no drama 😆 But when I was reading “old path white clouds” by Thich Nhat Hanh I realized this drama queen human nature is just inevitable even when the Buddha was alive! 😂 But hey! Maybe this “drama series” can finally attract more audience to practice meditation! 🧘♀️🧘❤Doesn’t matter how people start the Path but as long as we keep walking the walk, we know how XYZ makes “our” minds and we can easily discern what’s wholesome by our inner guru 🥰
I started watching several of Steve’s podcasts very recently, and I appreciate the work and the great hosts he brings to the show. Very much looking forward to listening to Delson’s latest update after the last interview (although I have yet to see the critics too!).
Kriya Yoga teaching Ex-Arhant! Wonderful what is possible in our times… Maybe the next interview will have the title: „I renounce my Kriya Yoga attainments!“
@@gerhard108 I am not trying to argue with you but I’d just like to offer what he said in the interview. TWIM is perfect for the vast majority of people in order to experience cessation and then see the links of dependent origination/anatta themselves. However, occasionally, some people can have a fear of no longer existing arise in their bodies before they tip into cessation from the 8th jhana, which prevents them from going deeper in their practice. This is specifically where Delson mentioned in this interview a use case where he’d (if the student is interested in kriya) have them do some kriya techniques to let go of the fear. Otherwise the student normally just gets over the fear over time, intellectually contemplating D.O and that there never was a self helps with that too.
@@PlasticAccount Don’t worry! Disagreement is not a hindrance for a good conversation! I can see what you want to tell me. But I think the problem with this guy is not that he wants help people with Kriya Yoga stuff to counter their fear of no longer existing… The problem in my estimation is that he mislead many people with his outlandish claims. I understand that he needs to make a living, but sorry, this guy is so full of himself it’s hard to bear. But of course you will see it differently! That’s totally fine! Everyone is responsible for his own decisions in relying on so called teachers!
@@gerhard108 I understand where you’re coming from, and again, I’m not trying to “get you” or “win” anything. Anways, I must ask, where did he make any outlandish claims (I assume you’re talking about claiming arhantship?) I keep seeing this being said in the comments here, but no one has been able to link to where he says that. If someone can do that then I would be open to adjusting my opinion on him. One outlandish claim he’s made is that he can sit in cessation of perception and feeling at will, but he’s actually been studied scientifically and it’s been proven he can sit in cessation of perception and feeling. I can link to the paper if you’d like.
@@PlasticAccount the whole video „Meditation Virtuoso“ is a series of outlandish claims. I attained the states of Kriya Yoga, Astanga Yoga, Shaivite Yoga, Dzogchen, Mahamudra….. this level and that level, this Jhana and that Jhana… all in record time of course. And then comes a moment of regret: „I renounce all my attainments“. He clearly indicated that he mislead and potentially harmed people by his claims. Now, remembering that he has to earn money he takes a step back and tries to frame the whole thing in a different way. I am sorry to say that, but this person comes across very narcissistic and full of himself. Very soon, nobody will believe him. But for his followers and believers this process will be very painful. And you come across as a real believer! Let’s see how long you can maintain the idealized picture of him…
So Delson achieved the prescribed attainments (renounced then not renounced?) In TWIM By practicing Bhante V's method but now he is saying he thinks that TWIM is just so so and need to be amended and mixed by his Yoga techniques and ideology? Ppl can fogive the young and ignorant, but Are you sure you have grown enough to teach? I am worried about TWIM community to be derailed by this approach or would that disqualify you as a TWIM teacher. Please do not teach TWIM with twists.
Ppl in the Buddhism society have been trying to mix what Buddha taught with other religions and teachings for centuries, even more common in the modern days because that gains popularity in society that is not for enlightenment. Please don't mix Buddha's teaching with other things knowing they do not philosophically match. It is a disgrace. Please only teach Yoga if you want to make a living. The community dont feel comfortable that the suttas are being read and explained by someone who would derail them.
@PlasticAccount I am not against TWIM but think TWIM is pretty good, so I don't want anyone to twist it. Delson can come up with his own branch that is different from TWIM. but if he teaches TWIM, he should be loyal to the original teaching and keep fidelity to its original way.
@@PlasticAccount Delson can feel free to build his own system and find his own audience, but i would suggest him not to use TWIM or Buddha's teaching as the viechle to teach his own stuff, for example changing the 10 fetters to whatever number of fetter or definition of enlightenment to anything ppl want. 😉
@@helpfulinfo2630 Yes I actually agree with you there. However, in this interview he kind of clears that up. He basically says TWIM is absolutely deep enough for the vast majority of people in order to experience cessation and then see the links of dependent origination/anatta themselves. However, occasionally, some people can have a fear of no longer existing arise in their bodies before they tip into cessation from the 8th jhana, which prevents them from going deeper in their practice. This is specifically where Delson mentioned in this interview a use case where he’d (if the student is interested in kriya) have them do some kriya techniques to let go of the fear. Otherwise the student normally just gets over the fear over time, and intellectually contemplating D.O and that there never was a self helps with that too.
Delson’s story with Kriya yoga doesn’t really add up to me. He said he studied with Swami Harihariananda who died in 2002. Delson is maybe 3 years older than me. He would’ve been 10 years old then and that doesn’t fit into the story he tells about his time learning hatha yoga and learning Kriya at the age he says he did. Hopefully I simply misheard or misunderstood something but yeah… doesn’t really add up.
@littledarkone1995 interesting, wouldn't be the first to be faking Kriya Yoga credentials. Then again the initial techniques are simple enough for a 10 year old to understand and memorise. Whether Swami H would have initiated a 10 year old boy, I don't know.
@@lewijiyeah no some of them certainly can be. At least initial kriya practices when initiated. However, I’m just pointing out his storyline simply doesn’t match up at all and seems like he might be lying. I’ve talked with Deleon before and he seems nice but yeah, it just doesn’t really add up if you take into account Delson’s age and the year Swami Harihariananda died and the ages Delson claimed he studied with him.
If I did say this, then it’s a misstatement on my part. What I have said is I’ve studied under the lineages of Hariharananda, Sataycharan, and Panchanan. Big difference. I never met Hariharananda.
It's not possible to give up worldly desires. However one can see them in the light of their insubstantial nature and stop labeling them as anything other than the play of awareness. That's this old man's advice after a life of practice.
I'm a critic of Delson & TWIM but a great interview by Steve and Delson does come across better than I've seen him before, especially the first half I still think Delson has a long way to go. (But then so do most of us.)The wisdom simply isn't there. He needs to pump the brakes and maybe he is to some extent. Delson comes across as naive in his belief that monks are always exemplars for moral behaviour. One can find examples from the suttas to present day scandals that this is far from the case. In this interview, Delson talks about taking great teachings from various wisdom traditions but removing the religiosity aspects -- this is kinda old hat. Nothing new here. Delson needs to read more. Delson mentioned Jhana practice and Ramana self-inquiry as self-pacification or keep busy practices to occupy the mind until Grace is bestowed. This is ... Simply baffling to hear. I practice jhana meditation with Metta, Mindfulness of Breathing, Equanimity, and Sattipathana. I think of them as Buddha's Greatest Hits. The Buddha said the Satipathana is a direct path to realization. If Delson thinks jhana is do nothing meditation, I would advise for him to reflect on this and ponder why the Buddha recommended it. Self-Inquiry isn't to annhiliate the mind. It's to annhiliate the small egoistic self. Again, to categorise it as do nothing or self-pacification is a misuse. It too is a direct path to awakening as Ramana said. We have here with Delson who has a little bit of knowledge of myriad traditions but gets important details wrong. What I see too with Delson with his yoga background bringing in Yoga's definition of Samadhi -- ceasation of thoughts, a trance like state he claims he can maintain for six days atraight ! This isn't Buddhism. Grace and Forgiveness too aren't really in Buddhism. They're certainly not emphasized to any extent. It's part of Delsonism. Who delivers the Grace to the Buddhist? Samadhi in the Pali canon means more "stability of mind". Look it up. Many Buddhist traditions are very critical of high trance like states. If you're indistinguishable from being dead, even if its for six days -- where is the insight from being akin to a corpse? No one watches a zombie movie and wishes they were like a zombie. Buddhists shouldn't be impressed here -- it's a circus sideshow act here. So fair enough Delson has reinvented himself as a Kriya yoga guy. It fits him and his conceptual framework.
Well, I'm at 30:00 here. I watched the entire 5 hour video from Upekhananda and the leaked interview as well. And as far as I can tell, Delson addressed the elephant in the room. How interesting this appearance
He just casually says that he can teach ’anything from twim and kriya yoga to vedanta to mahamudra or dzogchen’ depending what people ask. Ok so now he can just teach whatever he wants huh? He’s that enlightened??? Seriously, there are so many little mistakes in his views and conclusions, together with the apparent immaturity as a practitioner, that he should find a teacher who sets him straight, rather than seek to become a misleader for others. Why he has been so often in this show is beyond me.
@kai19821 in this video, he says He’s still teaching TWIM fundamentally. just that it’s possible to engage an even larger audience to the dhamma if he can teach them how to mix the dhamma with their tradition. I.e if it’s a Vedantan, he can teach them the jhanas and the relax step and help them reach cessation. At which point the vedantan can still call that “union with brahman”. But at the end of the day that vedantan has seen Dependent Origination and now has path stream entry. Does that make sense? I should have typed this a bit more compact but hopefully you understand what I’m saying. I’m not trying to argue or make you look bad. Just wanted to share my understanding. Have a good day!
He says he can teach MahaMudra and Dzogchen???? Has he spent years or decades with Rimpoche's that taught and trained him in the depth and nuances of those practice traditions? I doubt it - sounds like he has a passing knowledge and would be winging it in teaching others. Anyone teaching Dzogchen without a deep and long training in that tradition is really offering a profound disservice!
We should start a stock exchange of spiritual beliefs where value can fluctuate in full public view. No appeal to authority. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
@@tomtillman It is even sadder when a person betrays the expectations of other people for whom faith and spirituality can be the most intimate and precious treasures of their being. True spirituality is not "sold" nor promoted, much less to find justifications and excuses.
This comments section is a master class in how wildly people can project when they do not know what they are talking about. Where has Delson conned you? He understands the "path" very well, and where his experience has changed where doesn't accord with traditional dhamma, he says so, which I respect. He is also human (as he keeps insisting) and doesn't deserve this. Maybe there has been some obtuseness on his part (who isn't when put up to a microscope), but I see no real misconduct.
He said a number of very suspicious and contradictory things, and it seemed like he was perfectly fine with all of it. If he doesn’t see the problems, then he doesn’t but it is in blind spots like those that leads him and his flock astray. He’s started showing much looser standards than before and pretty clearly is lost in terms of direction. That is not a sign of clarity or arhatship but of self-delusion and immaturity.
@@kai19821 You've provided a series of accusations with no actual examples. Right or wrong who's to say.. It's really nothing but character assasination.
@Kai19821 What Arhatship? He doesn't claim to be an Arahat, Your attack is unethical and without evidence or reason. Your behavior breaks the precepts of Buddhism.
I agree they are just models for teaching. Some are more suitable to certain people. The 10 fetters has worked well for me after others had left me at a stuck place..thanks Steve you are awesome ❤I love your channel!
Honestly in your opinions what’s wrong with him? I have my own skepticism but if you don’t like him you can skip. Some of what he’s shared has been helpful.
No skin in the game, podcasters do what generates click$$$. Or ones who have high integrity, zero grift are rare and will hardly pop up in my feeds suggestions like this one.
It's sad to see a teacher making comments on video about others in a critical way - I hope Delson is learning lessons and maturing in his practice and teaching. What a mess he's created. Sounds like he's trynig to clean it up. Everyone deserves a second chance. Maybe he needs to step back and grow a good bit before he continues as a teacher! Delson seems confused about the path and practice and where he is. He really is not in a good position to be teaching others. Take a break and get clear before teaching others. Terrible to teach others out of a state of uncertainty and confusion. He said "I might be deluded" - not a place to teach others from!
@@tomtillman Not for a teacher. Teachers have a responsibility to have clarity, not confusion. There is a really good reason why monastics have specific rules barring them from divulging attainments to lay people - divulging attainments leads to problems and Delson is a case in point. I know he's not a monastic - the spirit of that precept is a good one to ponder and understand it's reason and purpose. How much discord has Delson's conduct created? I'm not saying he should never teach again. Only that he should take some time to get clear and he should have one or more advanced teachers that can help him get clear and get on track before he teaches others. Otherwise maybe he'll be revealling various other misunderstandings and mistakes down the road that have misled countless students. Pick your teachers carefully - not just the popular meditation wiz kid making claims. Better to choose highly experienced teachers that have been given authorization to teach and undergone years/decades of guidance. That's me - everyone gets to choose for themselves how to conduct their path of practice and what teachers to trust.
"These three things, monks, are conducted in secret, not openly. What three? Affairs with women, the mantras of the brahmins. and wrong view. "But these three things, monks, shine openly, not in secret. What three? The moon, the sun, and the Dhamma and Discipline proclaimed by the Tathagata." (AN 3:129; I 282-83) "I still had some little comfort in the thought that the Blessed One would not come to his final passing away until he had given some last instructions respecting the community of bhikkhus." 32. Thus spoke the Venerable Ananda, but the Blessed One answered him, saying: "What more does the community of bhikkhus expect from me, Ananda? I have set forth the Dhamma without making any distinction of esoteric and exoteric doctrine; there is nothing, Ananda, with regard to the teachings that the Tathagata holds to the last with the closed fist of a teacher who keeps some things back" DN 16
The discussion around 32:00 is fascinating. I think of this as very, very relevant to our world today. Religious/Spiritual adaptations are typically adopted and promoted because they answer questions that were either left unanswered, or even created by a prior system. For example the Abrahamic laws can be seen, in some sense, as dealing with how to rectify interpersonal behavior in the face of property rights and individual ownership, things which are essential when transitioning from a nomadic life to one based on civilization and agriculture. But they seemingly introduce the acceptability of the fundamental valuelessness of individuals who violate those rules, or are incapable of producing for themselves... Who was Jesus fighting for? Whores, lepers, and the downtrodden. He sought to re-introduce a concept of human value, irrespective of their apparent choices or their race etc. This was revolutionary, he was spectacularly murdered for it. (Quick aside, if he was alive today in America he likely would suffer exactly the same fate at exactly the people who profess to follow him) I think this is the line Delson is actually trying to tread here. Make up too much yourself - you become a cult leader... Follow just what you're told - you end up a follower at worst, and at best missing out on an opportunity to really reach people who might otherwise have been able to get something out of it.
Buddha mentioned how parts of a drum are replaced with different materials overtime. Dharma does not age, but the messing by ppl who don't understand Dharma don't want Dharma to continue ages it and replace or mix it with other stuff. Everyone is free to create something of their own, but not using Dharma as the framework or name
I’ve intuitively felt yoga & Buddhism could be used more together for advancement. Both practices have led me to deep states of consciousness from different entrances. I feel yoga prepared me for Buddhism & now adding yoga back. I’m hybridizing too, which isn’t recommended. Yoga is excellent prep for meditation. They work well together.
LOL the conman getting more free publicity LOL Why hasn't he given up on his con of being a "teacher" and taken up a regular job since? His insistence on being a "teacher" is really disturbing. If he worked as, say, a bus driver or a builder, however enlightened, he wouldn't have to continue appearing in these ridiculous shows, trying to reassert his authority. Yes, you may be deluded and you may be false - so what is it that you have to teach anyone? Get real, dude.
You will never see one of those guys with a regolar job…. Wondering why!!!! They are all teachers, writers, publishers, no one of them is a plumber or pizzaiolo
Don't think these people are gaining any spiritual merit. If these are the type of people twin practice produces it's not a practice in my eyes to follow
Honest question to any TWIM OR Suttavadins here: So if the Suttavadins say they are returning to the original suttas of the Buddha -- why does their star pupil and TWIM teacher Delson talk mostly about: Yoga, chakras, trance like states, samadhi nirvakalpa, grace -- none of which are found in the Pali canon 🤔
He has stated repeatedly That TWIM is only one of the methods he teaches. People are different and need different methods, and sometimes a combination of methods. Nirodha is not a trance like state. 🙏
Delson doesn't sound like he's someone who's focused at all on what the Buddha taught. He's now seems more of a cross between Teal Swan and Swami Poobah with his chopra-fu. Like 95% of what's he talking about not only isn't TWIM or Theravada, it's not even really Buddhism anymore. Like he says, he's got his own thing, Delsonism. But why have any emphasis on what the Buddha actually taught like the Suttavadins urge -- when the star teacher now believes anything goes ? It must be a bit hard for Suttavadins not to cringe a bit eh?
@@wolfk2258 No cringing here. I am a TWIM practitioner, and I have had positive changes. However, I appreciate having a range of tools to handle my particular condition. It is not "anything goes", It's anything that WORKS goes, based on experience from this recent time and place. I am not constricted by Bante V, Goenka, Mahasi, or any other tradition or teacher. Good luck on your spiritual journey, with whatever tradition you have chosen. 🙏
@@tomtillman The thing is that TWIM sells itself as being what the Buddha taught. That's debateable. But they think that, and it sells. Then Delson throws in yoga, chakras, narodha samadi, grace -- whatever. And now that's fine because it's whatever helps people! TWIM could have gone without the whole "we teach what the suttas say -- we are THE SUTTAVADINS!" -- WHEN its clear that they're now okay with whatever Delson pulls out of his butt or his experience of the day. It's weird. I guess the suttas weren't really important to TWIM afterall though i saw a recent post by David Johnson with sutta footnotes and references. Why bother? Couldn't you just say now this a technique Bhante Vimalaramsi conceived of and taught ? Or that Delson thinks its okay? Or everything is cool now?
Delson stop calling your self a buddhist. Or whatever else. And just walk your own path. Leave the labels for the uninitiated ones. No rules. No Dogmas. Total freedom.
It’s interesting the “Being Untangled” guy will heavily criticize Delson, Daniel Ingram, Bhante V, etc. Yet he is unable to give any meaningful advice on how to practice towards awakening. At most, he will point towards a sutta and say “follow this”, but frankly this shows he has no understanding, if he can’t put into his own words what to do.. Anyways, Looking forward to this interview.
I seriously question his practice or objectivity, in his comments he threw away the 6Rs because it's not in the sutta but when we practice the sattipatana we actually discover the 6Rs by ourselves as the natural rolling process of the practice. It's not called 6Rs in the suttas but it's there when we practice. For his defense I would guess he only practiced onepointedness or metta meditation and never got to realize that. Too bad he's throwing out the baby with the bath water.
He’s not setting himself up as a teacher, I don’t think. Why do you feel that sending you to the source means he doesn’t understand? Did you try practicing according to the sutta he pointed you to? Perhaps doing that and then approaching him with questions or concerns would be better? I mean, a person in the comments section asking for advice on enlightenment sounds pretty wild to me. His whole point is to trust the Buddha. Regarding the satipattana sutta - the Buddha didnt teach dhamma to randoms on the internet. In this sutta he is addressing monks who were ready to receive such teachings. There is a lot of work to be done to properly prepare for and contextualise right mindfulness.
@@_sitting_duck_ being untangled, according to David Johnson, has never even gone on a TWIM retreat. So he is critiquing the 6R’s/meditation taught by TWIM, yet he has never checked for himself if it leads to Nibbana .
@@PlasticAccount It didnt lead to nibbana for david, nor delson - evident by their behaviour and delsons confession and view. But that doesnt answer my question. Anyway, to address you - I could be wrong, but im pretty sure he (being untangled) said he has been on a TWIM retreat and the reason he’s doing what hes doing is because of the adverse effects he experienced doing that retreat. David Johnson has a lot to lose in this. I don’t know him but I do know that TWIM is not based on virtue or right view so his word may be tied up in worldly concerns.
@@_sitting_duck_ let me preface this by saying I’m not trying to argue with you or make you look bad. With that said, if what you said were true, what’s a better alternative to TWIM that doesn’t have (as many) flaws. Saying “read the suttas” is valid, and staying as close to them as possible is invaluable, hence why TWIM calls themselves “suttavada”, however, the suttas can be interpreted in countless ways for the most part. So what I’m asking is which interpretation is correct (or closer to being correct)? There are over 1000’s of students of TWIM that have benefitted tremendously, myself included.
Forget Ingram and this guy. If you want to know what arhats are capable of listen to Adam Mizner’s interview about Luang Por Jamniun. Ingram and Armstrong are nothing but unripe.
Lots of solid (but incomplete) book knowledge, but he ties himself into knots when it comes to describing his practice (and lineage) and its goals. In the end, it seems he's become very dependent on a lifestyle of being a (highly paid and world-travelling) teacher, so one cannot help but suspect that this is what brought him here (again). To me, this channel has further diminished in quality.
@@martinspiering5817 To be fair, he is a lay person that charges so much because his sister and mother rely on him a whole lot for support in India. He is not earning money other than through teaching. His father was the breadwinner of the family but unfortunately he passed away around 2020 or so.
@@PlasticAccount Is it really that or is it simply attachment to "the better things in life"? We all have attachments with varying intensities, but if someone publishes a book titled "A Mind Without Craving" and displays overt signs of craving, bells go off. As the saying goes, be wary of skinny chefs.
@PlasticAccount eveey lay person needa find ways to support themselves and their family, struggling with managing work and life. I believe most of the guides and teachers in the Dhamma Sukha center not only donate teaching but also time for free and find other ways to earn money to support their lay life. Buddha"s teaching is not for sale. Ppl or their family have to rely on their karma and diligence to make a living. If a person wants to teach spiritual things as a career for money，feell free to do so as a Inc/company with clear charges instead of acting as a spiritual leader or master or the highest achieved one of Buddhists or Hinduism or brahmism, Daoism, Zen, or whatever. A lot of ppl seeking for buddha's teaching are the ones who need to be protected since they suffer through their precious lives to pursue enlightenment , I plead ppl not to mislead them. The teachers in Goenka's meditation retreat are all 100%volunteers for free and it seems work well.
Erosion occurs within but not from outside. Coming in becomes one part of it and then trying change it under the name of help or reformation of it. That is why the sangha worked so hard to maintain Pali Canon generation by generation. Please don't let opportunists erode TWIM. I am not indicating any person, but in general.@plastic account
I don't think you're right. There is no 'money' here and Steve does a hard job of bringing a little mainstream and a lot of the weird and fascinating fringes of the spiritual worlds. I've been following him almost from the beginning. Sometimes after 3 minutes I close and sometimes I sit tense and completely transfixed.
Wow so much anger here. I enjoyed this conversation and the last one with Delson. It was very freeing to me personally. Starting out in a spiritual path is mandatory for most of us. Ending in one is not. Being attached to a spiritual path is an impediment to growth in my opinion. That seems evident by some of the comments I'm reading here.
The way Delson is teaching it is mixing it with TWIM at the core level. Thus, yes it does aim to get off the wheel. Because it has TWIM as the underlying foundation (via the relax step and jhanas). He is still a TWIM teacher, he just teaches kriya occasionally.
@@orshaharorna.shahar8921 😂Why not ? Any conversation between the four of them will be far more enlightening than any thing from a jealous bitter hate filled wannabe who’s standing on the sidelines watching everybody else succeed in life. * Let me guess, you attended one of his retreats and thought you were going to get enlightened overnight only to find out that you didn’t have the chops so you demanded a refund which he denied??? Lol * The science of Enlightenment“ the book and the lectures from sounds true have done far more to help people reach meditative states and help neuroscientists understand what’s happening in the brain than anything you’ll ever * Serious question, why do trolls like you even bother watching channels like this ? Why is it the case that people who are smarter and more spiritually developed and then you 10 to trigger such resentment from you ? Why watch people who are more developed than you if it just makes you angry * Honestly somebody like it was beyond meditative Help, you need some integrative psychotherapeutic shadow work from internal family systems therapy or something, anything to get that Heatfield jealousy out of your heart. * And I can’t wait till Steve has Ken Wilber on he’s one of my favorites, but I know you’ll be in the comment section spewing stupidity because you’ll be jealous of him too * Now go home recite some mantras and think long and hard before you respond
Excellent podcast! Unfortunate about the clueless haters and trolls. Attacking someone who has done you no harm, you have never met, and you know little to nothing about might get you some bad Karma. And the Lords of Karma don't do plea bargaining. Tread carefully! 🙏
Sending loving kindness to everyone. 😊 🙏 My experience with TWIM as a lay person has been a beautiful experience. I’m so very grateful. And I do this meditation practice. We are all just trying to be free of fear, and we all make mistakes but that’s just another learning opportunity.
Delson, any thoughts on the meditation center you are planning? Maybe I can help. It could be the beginning of a new Genre. The "No Dogma" center, to get you moving, based on what YOU need to get moving.
@@tomtillman I love it! Still in the works. Email me your thoughts. Pieces are moving in a direction towards something. It’s over the horizon but feels like things will be coming together
It raises serious questions when Delson charges $300 AUD for a 30-minute session. Even psychiatrists, who undergo a decade of rigorous training and carry substantial student debt, don't charge this much. This highlights the importance of ethical practices in spirituality. Certain lineages, like Sanbo Zen, stand out by prioritizing accessibility-many of their sanghas don't charge for consultations or Koan practice. It's a refreshing contrast and a reminder of what authentic teaching should prioritize.
I also never got a refund from a TWIM retreat when I let them know 3 weeks in advance. The page said they would 'consider' refunds. I told the TWIM organisation that I have had financial problems, and couldn't make it as I had to work away. They didn't give it to me. Not short of money though! As an ex monk gave them over 100k US as a donation recently.
Money hunger is always a red flag that is easy to spot.
300 for 30 minutes is insane! For the Pope of TWIM
I don't know if this is true but that is alot of money to charge!!!!!!!!
I thought about booking with him until I saw the price and walked away, seemed very over the top.
Try Siva Rudra Balayogi. He doesn't charge! A master of meditation who has done Way More than these folks.
There's much to like about Delson, as well as some cautions. $300 dollars for 30 mins does raise questions.
What a lovely time to be alive!
So many advanced dhamma experts gathered in the comment sections.
What a privilege! 🙏
i have learned a lot from some of your more genuine guests who aren't so caught up in their own personalities, but there has to be more discernment when it comes to people coming on the podcast. the genre of "enlightenment" comes with a lot of delusional, big egos who are so excited to be picked up by a channel so that they can sound enlightened for a couple hours and boost their reputation. maybe i'm being cynical here, but when i listen to those mystics who don't talk about "enlightenment" or their prophetic experiences, i get a much better vibe from them... i used to listen to your channel more often but i've become frustrated by the amount of discernment i have to do with these guests who are caught in their own line...
1:07:16 "it's a god damn head ache. All I want is peace". Thank you. That's where it's at!
I recommend everyone to watch the interview with a former twim monk. I am truly dissapointed at these softball questions for this cult leader. They basically scammed a property and 60k out of an aspiring monk then kicked him out. I'm gonna give Steve the benefit of the doubt of not having seen that.
@TheTTrickz What interview? Do you have a link?
@@tomtillmanth-cam.com/video/OQ9a-OFRj_g/w-d-xo.htmlsi=qwRxWaYtLK8RQgww
“Strictly speaking, there are no enlightened people, there is only enlightened activity.”
- Shunryu Suzuki
And enlightened activity is simply without the Doer. Regardless of the activity itself. It could be having sex. watching a movie, meditating, or sleeping. Doesnt matter. But it matters for the unawakened as they live within the small confines of their own mental illusions. The Buddha had to take a shit too sometimes.
this quote is so overused. like, seriously. maybe it's just me. and also, it kinda implies something, but it's out of context and i don't think the intent of Suzuki Roshi and the implication of the out-of-context quote are one and the same.
@@hippiechixx Tell me you are a hater without telling me you are a hater.
@@GigiAzmy what kind of a responser is that. do you only speak in memes? are you a bot?
@@hippiechixxhi silly rabbit here is a quote by Suzukis students student:
“I do not believe in over-romanticizing enlightenment. There is already plenty of that nonsense going on in spirituality, and it doesn’t serve anyone. I would say that something on the order of 95 percent of suffering can be overcome with deep spiritual realization. But in the end, freedom is not measured by the amount of suffering that we are immune from, as much as it is measured by the amount of freedom, love, and courage that we can embody. Enlightenment doesn’t save one from every bit of the unpleasantness of life; it reveals our essential unity and wholeness.”
~ Adyashanti
“A Revolution of Being: Embracing the Challenge of Awakened Living” 2018 Online Retreat
TWIM and Delson have really blown themselves up in the last year.
Some people in previous years may have thought Delson an Arahat and TWIM a rapid quick way to enlightenment.
Now Delson is a polyamorous Arahat who kinda sorta denounced his own attainment on last Guru Viking and TWIM seems a real rogue's gallery of manipulation and abuse.
@@wolfk2258 honestly thought he meant more when he renounced his attainments, was disappointed.
@@wolfk2258 feels like he just used Bhante Vimalaramsi and then once he passed decided to stop pretending to not suffer even the slightest bit of stress.
@@wolfk2258 Delson has never claimed to be an arahat. Please link to anywhere he has claimed this as I’ve never heard that and I’ve been following him for quite some time. Thanks
@@PlasticAccountif you are interested in this stuff, you should see the other Guru Viking episodes with Delson and the Being Untangled channel. This question has been asked and answered before. Delson has claimed to have achieved fourth path which is Arahatship. The previous Guru Viking interview with Delson is even entitled that he renounces his attainments. What attainment do you think that refers to?
See Ep 120 and also Ep 136 with Daniel Ingram. Delson isnt exactly shy about talking about his path attainments. If now he's trying to back away from saying "Oh technically I never PUBLICLY said I was an Arahat!" -- this really is being slimy.
@@wolfk2258 When he talked about 4th path attainments in those Ingram interviews, it seemed more like he was inferring what would happen/how life would be like. Let’s assume someone is a streamenter or sakadagami. From there it really wouldn’t be too far fetched for that person to discuss what 3rd or 4th path/fruition might be like.
(Note: I have no idea which attainment he’s at when I was saying streamentry or sakadagami, as he’s never mentioned it publicly)
Ep290: Answering Critics & Kriya Yoga - Delson Armstrong
I found some additional critiques in text and audio format.
On Suttavada
by Oleg Pavlov, Pavel Katagorin
An analysis of the Suttavada/TWIM doctrine promoted by Bhante Vimalaramsi, Delson Armstrong, David Johnson and their disciples. 87 pages.
~Internet Archive
"What's Wrong With Suttavada's TWIM" on You Tube
~Oleg Pavlov
Another spiritual teacher that is finally telling the truth is Adyashanti:
“I do not believe in over-romanticizing enlightenment. There is already plenty of that nonsense going on in spirituality, and it doesn’t serve anyone. I would say that something on the order of 95 percent of suffering can be overcome with deep spiritual realization. But in the end, freedom is not measured by the amount of suffering that we are immune from, as much as it is measured by the amount of freedom, love, and courage that we can embody. Enlightenment doesn’t save one from every bit of the unpleasantness of life; it reveals our essential unity and wholeness.”
~ Adyashanti
“A Revolution of Being: Embracing the Challenge of Awakened Living” 2018 Online Retreat
Wholesomeness is what enlightenment reveals. Suffering comes and goes, but wholesomeness is unshakable.
Essential unity is not a part of the enlightenment. Egoless is. That is different from unity
This guy has been comprehensively forensically discredited in my opinion. Having him on for a third time undermines your brand Steve.
Now that I'm watching this episode it's pretty clear to me what's going on. Delson made a mistake; he doesn't want to fully own that mistake or lose money because of that mistake. So instead, he claims to be "recontextualizing the traditions within a broader framework" and "syncretizing methodologies" in order to make it appear as though he was right, even when he was just wrong.
Well put!
Depends. He bought into the belief that he could be a pure being. In reality there is nothing holy about this. So I annihilated self and world at 18. It felt like amnesia. I had to first grapple with my senses. Then I had to form thoughts in order to understand words. Then I had to form constructs to help me navigate the world. So for me it was more pronounced and sudden then his most likely. From what I have found rarely does what occured to me occur to others. Then again I had no teacher I studied in a library took the techniques I wanted to try and arrived at my mental death and mental rebirth. So 2 years after my mental rebirth I was where delson appears to be now. That is he is losing his baby hood and becoming an adult again. Cause my first 2 years I was for all intents and purposes like a baby. Asexual and without fetters. But the self and world ultimately reassert themselves after this event. I call it the still point of the turning world. Since the world was turned through that still point or origin as Lao tzu would state. We all know the origin once we have experienced it. And he shows it.
So as a kid I did dreaming meditation self inquiry deity yoga psychedelics self enquiry but if you ask me it was horse stance meditation that caused my sudden shift. The overcoming of pain was the trick. Shinzen highlights it I this video. He says the native americans would undergo Sundance and then die and be reborn. This is not a literal death. It is what happens when one has annihilated self and world.
th-cam.com/video/gYSSf71Vo7w/w-d-xo.htmlsi=3UJHnbijRUhc4vpO
I'm a scientist though so I didn't have the baggage of religion or lineage. Still learned how to pull it off though. The old texts are easy to decipher once you realize it's all based off human experience and that human experience can change depending on the era due to how knowledge effects mind. The experience remains the same the philosophy, description, and terminology changes though by alot. Humans are very artistic and metaphorically inclined even more so the further back one looks.
th-cam.com/video/kuM1b5QhRsM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=FJjthJCTWw9-FuZW
He has fully owned his mistake. And he's correcting it. Can't ask for more than that.
Great interview! Delson has been incredibly helpful in my meditation practice so far, and I haven’t come across anything that contradicts my own experience. However, I’m shocked by the negativity in the comments-even entire channels dedicated to clickbait with negative thumbnails. I didn’t realize there were people claiming to follow the Buddhist path while harboring so much hatred.
Yep. Unfortunately, the trolls have a long way to go. Sad indeed.
Dissent and critique don’t equal hatred. I don’t hate Delson at all. I wish him the best. I just don’t think he’s in a position to teach.
I eagerly await Gregory (Being Untangled)’s response to this lol
It's like a gossip/drama TH-cam channel for such a tiny audience that would really know who or what it's all about. Dude is possessed. I wonder if he is an actual monk or just larping
@@jasonjenkins8910hahaha I thought more Dhamma, no drama 😆 But when I was reading “old path white clouds” by Thich Nhat Hanh I realized this drama queen human nature is just inevitable even when the Buddha was alive! 😂 But hey! Maybe this “drama series” can finally attract more audience to practice meditation! 🧘♀️🧘❤Doesn’t matter how people start the Path but as long as we keep walking the walk, we know how XYZ makes “our” minds and we can easily discern what’s wholesome by our inner guru 🥰
Oh ok. Just wondered since it looks like he wears monks robes
It will be 8 hours long.
@ true😂
I started watching several of Steve’s podcasts very recently, and I appreciate the work and the great hosts he brings to the show. Very much looking forward to listening to Delson’s latest update after the last interview (although I have yet to see the critics too!).
Kriya Yoga teaching Ex-Arhant! Wonderful what is possible in our times… Maybe the next interview will have the title: „I renounce my Kriya Yoga attainments!“
🤣
@@gerhard108 I am not trying to argue with you but I’d just like to offer what he said in the interview.
TWIM is perfect for the vast majority of people in order to experience cessation and then see the links of dependent origination/anatta themselves. However, occasionally, some people can have a fear of no longer existing arise in their bodies before they tip into cessation from the 8th jhana, which prevents them from going deeper in their practice. This is specifically where Delson mentioned in this interview a use case where he’d (if the student is interested in kriya) have them do some kriya techniques to let go of the fear. Otherwise the student normally just gets over the fear over time, intellectually contemplating D.O and that there never was a self helps with that too.
@@PlasticAccount Don’t worry! Disagreement is not a hindrance for a good conversation! I can see what you want to tell me. But I think the problem with this guy is not that he wants help people with Kriya Yoga stuff to counter their fear of no longer existing… The problem in my estimation is that he mislead many people with his outlandish claims. I understand that he needs to make a living, but sorry, this guy is so full of himself it’s hard to bear. But of course you will see it differently! That’s totally fine! Everyone is responsible for his own decisions in relying on so called teachers!
@@gerhard108 I understand where you’re coming from, and again, I’m not trying to “get you” or “win” anything. Anways, I must ask, where did he make any outlandish claims (I assume you’re talking about claiming arhantship?) I keep seeing this being said in the comments here, but no one has been able to link to where he says that. If someone can do that then I would be open to adjusting my opinion on him.
One outlandish claim he’s made is that he can sit in cessation of perception and feeling at will, but he’s actually been studied scientifically and it’s been proven he can sit in cessation of perception and feeling. I can link to the paper if you’d like.
@@PlasticAccount the whole video „Meditation Virtuoso“ is a series of outlandish claims.
I attained the states of Kriya Yoga, Astanga Yoga, Shaivite Yoga, Dzogchen, Mahamudra….. this level and that level, this Jhana and that Jhana… all in record time of course.
And then comes a moment of regret: „I renounce all my attainments“. He clearly indicated that he mislead and potentially harmed people by his claims.
Now, remembering that he has to earn money he takes a step back and tries to frame the whole thing in a different way.
I am sorry to say that, but this person comes across very narcissistic and full of himself. Very soon, nobody will believe him. But for his followers and believers this process will be very painful. And you come across as a real believer! Let’s see how long you can maintain the idealized picture of him…
So Delson achieved the prescribed attainments (renounced then not renounced?) In TWIM By practicing Bhante V's method but now he is saying he thinks that TWIM is just so so and need to be amended and mixed by his Yoga techniques and ideology? Ppl can fogive the young and ignorant, but Are you sure you have grown enough to teach? I am worried about TWIM community to be derailed by this approach or would that disqualify you as a TWIM teacher. Please do not teach TWIM with twists.
Ppl in the Buddhism society have been trying to mix what Buddha taught with other religions and teachings for centuries, even more common in the modern days because that gains popularity in society that is not for enlightenment. Please don't mix Buddha's teaching with other things knowing they do not philosophically match. It is a disgrace. Please only teach Yoga if you want to make a living. The community dont feel comfortable that the suttas are being read and explained by someone who would derail them.
Interesting take that I sort of agree with. I am a TWIM meditator. Are you against TWIM or for it? I can’t tell.
@PlasticAccount I am not against TWIM but think TWIM is pretty good, so I don't want anyone to twist it. Delson can come up with his own branch that is different from TWIM. but if he teaches TWIM, he should be loyal to the original teaching and keep fidelity to its original way.
@@PlasticAccount Delson can feel free to build his own system and find his own audience, but i would suggest him not to use TWIM or Buddha's teaching as the viechle to teach his own stuff, for example changing the 10 fetters to whatever number of fetter or definition of enlightenment to anything ppl want. 😉
@@helpfulinfo2630 Yes I actually agree with you there. However, in this interview he kind of clears that up. He basically says TWIM is absolutely deep enough for the vast majority of people in order to experience cessation and then see the links of dependent origination/anatta themselves. However, occasionally, some people can have a fear of no longer existing arise in their bodies before they tip into cessation from the 8th jhana, which prevents them from going deeper in their practice. This is specifically where Delson mentioned in this interview a use case where he’d (if the student is interested in kriya) have them do some kriya techniques to let go of the fear. Otherwise the student normally just gets over the fear over time, and intellectually contemplating D.O and that there never was a self helps with that too.
Just did a compassion meditation guided by Buddhism in English channel feeling loving you all.
Delson’s story with Kriya yoga doesn’t really add up to me. He said he studied with Swami Harihariananda who died in 2002. Delson is maybe 3 years older than me. He would’ve been 10 years old then and that doesn’t fit into the story he tells about his time learning hatha yoga and learning Kriya at the age he says he did. Hopefully I simply misheard or misunderstood something but yeah… doesn’t really add up.
@littledarkone1995 interesting, wouldn't be the first to be faking Kriya Yoga credentials. Then again the initial techniques are simple enough for a 10 year old to understand and memorise. Whether Swami H would have initiated a 10 year old boy, I don't know.
@@lewijiyeah no some of them certainly can be. At least initial kriya practices when initiated. However, I’m just pointing out his storyline simply doesn’t match up at all and seems like he might be lying. I’ve talked with Deleon before and he seems nice but yeah, it just doesn’t really add up if you take into account Delson’s age and the year Swami Harihariananda died and the ages Delson claimed he studied with him.
If I did say this, then it’s a misstatement on my part. What I have said is I’ve studied under the lineages of Hariharananda, Sataycharan, and Panchanan. Big difference. I never met Hariharananda.
Want to be an arahant AND not give up any worldly desires? Delsonism is for you!
It's not possible to give up worldly desires. However one can see them in the light of their insubstantial nature and stop labeling them as anything other than the play of awareness. That's this old man's advice after a life of practice.
Very interesting! Thank you for clearing up your evolving perspectives on the reality of advancement versus dogma.
Indeed, one size does not fit all.
One size does fit all - and that size is called integrity!
I'm a critic of Delson & TWIM but a great interview by Steve and Delson does come across better than I've seen him before, especially the first half
I still think Delson has a long way to go. (But then so do most of us.)The wisdom
simply isn't there. He needs to pump the brakes and maybe he is to some extent.
Delson comes across as naive in his belief that monks are always exemplars for moral behaviour. One can find examples from the suttas to present day scandals that this is far from the case. In this interview, Delson talks about taking great teachings from various wisdom traditions but removing the religiosity aspects -- this is kinda old hat. Nothing new here. Delson needs to read more.
Delson mentioned Jhana practice and Ramana self-inquiry as self-pacification or keep busy practices to occupy the mind until Grace is bestowed. This is ... Simply baffling to hear. I practice jhana meditation with Metta, Mindfulness of Breathing, Equanimity, and Sattipathana. I think of them as Buddha's Greatest Hits. The Buddha said the Satipathana is a direct path to realization. If Delson thinks jhana is do nothing meditation, I would advise for him to reflect on this and ponder why the Buddha recommended it.
Self-Inquiry isn't to annhiliate the mind. It's to annhiliate the small egoistic self. Again, to categorise it as do nothing or self-pacification is a misuse. It too is a direct path to awakening as Ramana said. We have here with Delson who has a little bit of knowledge of myriad traditions but gets important details wrong.
What I see too with Delson with his yoga background bringing in Yoga's definition of Samadhi -- ceasation of thoughts, a trance like state he claims he can maintain for six days atraight ! This isn't Buddhism. Grace and Forgiveness too aren't really in Buddhism. They're certainly not emphasized to any extent. It's part of Delsonism. Who delivers the Grace to the Buddhist?
Samadhi in the Pali canon means more "stability of mind". Look it up. Many Buddhist traditions are very critical of high trance like states. If you're indistinguishable from being dead, even if its for six days -- where is the insight from being akin to a corpse? No one watches a zombie movie and wishes they were like a zombie. Buddhists shouldn't be impressed here -- it's a circus sideshow act here.
So fair enough Delson has reinvented himself as a Kriya yoga guy. It fits him and his conceptual framework.
Well, I'm at 30:00 here. I watched the entire 5 hour video from Upekhananda and the leaked interview as well. And as far as I can tell, Delson addressed the elephant in the room. How interesting this appearance
I’m sorry what was the elephant in the room that was addressed?
@@HumbertoMaynoldi it was the arhat elephant, or is it elephant arhat?
What leaked interview? can you provide a link?
thanks.
He just casually says that he can teach ’anything from twim and kriya yoga to vedanta to mahamudra or dzogchen’ depending what people ask. Ok so now he can just teach whatever he wants huh? He’s that enlightened??? Seriously, there are so many little mistakes in his views and conclusions, together with the apparent immaturity as a practitioner, that he should find a teacher who sets him straight, rather than seek to become a misleader for others. Why he has been so often in this show is beyond me.
People are not all the same. That's why they may need a different path. Being able to do Nirodha for several days hardly denotes immaturity.
@kai19821 in this video, he says He’s still teaching TWIM fundamentally. just that it’s possible to engage an even larger audience to the dhamma if he can teach them how to mix the dhamma with their tradition. I.e if it’s a Vedantan, he can teach them the jhanas and the relax step and help them reach cessation. At which point the vedantan can still call that “union with brahman”. But at the end of the day that vedantan has seen Dependent Origination and now has path stream entry. Does that make sense? I should have typed this a bit more compact but hopefully you understand what I’m saying. I’m not trying to argue or make you look bad. Just wanted to share my understanding. Have a good day!
He says he can teach MahaMudra and Dzogchen???? Has he spent years or decades with Rimpoche's that taught and trained him in the depth and nuances of those practice traditions? I doubt it - sounds like he has a passing knowledge and would be winging it in teaching others. Anyone teaching Dzogchen without a deep and long training in that tradition is really offering a profound disservice!
@@tomtillman Attaining Nirodha doesn't qualify one to teach Dzogchen. That's like saying that a good guitarist can teach the Oboe.
what's next, an interview with Mooji?
23.07 - "Delsonism vs Buddhism". Wow! 😲 Can't wait to hear this!🤣
@@brianl9419 is he joking about Delsonism? I really hope so.
We should start a stock exchange of spiritual beliefs where value can fluctuate in full public view. No appeal to authority. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
Although such a system would be primarily influenced by holders of capital, who would inevitably be first against the wall when the revolution comes
Maybe his words sound good to some people, but deep down, he exudes so much falsity and self-delusion!
Trolls are filled with hatred. Sad.
@@tomtillman It is even sadder when a person betrays the expectations of other people for whom faith and spirituality can be the most intimate and precious treasures of their being. True spirituality is not "sold" nor promoted, much less to find justifications and excuses.
@@tomtillmanand Delson is filled with cash and is feasting on people’s suffering and you turn a blind eye
This comments section is a master class in how wildly people can project when they do not know what they are talking about. Where has Delson conned you? He understands the "path" very well, and where his experience has changed where doesn't accord with traditional dhamma, he says so, which I respect. He is also human (as he keeps insisting) and doesn't deserve this. Maybe there has been some obtuseness on his part (who isn't when put up to a microscope), but I see no real misconduct.
He said a number of very suspicious and contradictory things, and it seemed like he was perfectly fine with all of it. If he doesn’t see the problems, then he doesn’t but it is in blind spots like those that leads him and his flock astray. He’s started showing much looser standards than before and pretty clearly is lost in terms of direction. That is not a sign of clarity or arhatship but of self-delusion and immaturity.
@@kai19821 You've provided a series of accusations with no actual examples. Right or wrong who's to say.. It's really nothing but character assasination.
@Kai19821 What Arhatship? He doesn't claim to be an Arahat, Your attack is unethical and without evidence or reason. Your behavior breaks the precepts of Buddhism.
@@dyseroll012 Time will tell. It always does. I wish him and his followers all the best.
Go watch the interview with a former twim monk. Manipulating a property and 60k out of someone would constitute misconduct in my opinion.
I hope you ask more challenging/critical questions this time. Love your content. Peace!
I agree they are just models for teaching. Some are more suitable to certain people. The 10 fetters has worked well for me after others had left me at a stuck place..thanks Steve you are awesome ❤I love your channel!
Why do you continue to have this person on your podcast
It's a good warning for aspirant meditators
Yeah, exactly what I thought
Honestly in your opinions what’s wrong with him? I have my own skepticism but if you don’t like him you can skip. Some of what he’s shared has been helpful.
No skin in the game, podcasters do what generates click$$$. Or ones who have high integrity, zero grift are rare and will hardly pop up in my feeds suggestions like this one.
Because he is very intelligent, articulate, and has a wide and deep range of knowledge and experience?
It's sad to see a teacher making comments on video about others in a critical way - I hope Delson is learning lessons and maturing in his practice and teaching. What a mess he's created. Sounds like he's trynig to clean it up. Everyone deserves a second chance. Maybe he needs to step back and grow a good bit before he continues as a teacher! Delson seems confused about the path and practice and where he is. He really is not in a good position to be teaching others. Take a break and get clear before teaching others. Terrible to teach others out of a state of uncertainty and confusion. He said "I might be deluded" - not a place to teach others from!
And your criticism is Ok? He has changed his mind due to experience. That is courage to be applauded.
@@tomtillman Not for a teacher. Teachers have a responsibility to have clarity, not confusion. There is a really good reason why monastics have specific rules barring them from divulging attainments to lay people - divulging attainments leads to problems and Delson is a case in point. I know he's not a monastic - the spirit of that precept is a good one to ponder and understand it's reason and purpose. How much discord has Delson's conduct created? I'm not saying he should never teach again. Only that he should take some time to get clear and he should have one or more advanced teachers that can help him get clear and get on track before he teaches others. Otherwise maybe he'll be revealling various other misunderstandings and mistakes down the road that have misled countless students. Pick your teachers carefully - not just the popular meditation wiz kid making claims. Better to choose highly experienced teachers that have been given authorization to teach and undergone years/decades of guidance. That's me - everyone gets to choose for themselves how to conduct their path of practice and what teachers to trust.
"These three things, monks, are conducted in secret, not openly. What three? Affairs with women, the mantras of the brahmins. and wrong view.
"But these three things, monks, shine openly, not in secret. What three? The moon, the sun, and the Dhamma and Discipline proclaimed by the Tathagata."
(AN 3:129; I 282-83)
"I still had some little comfort in the thought that the Blessed One would not come to his final passing away until he had given some last instructions respecting the community of bhikkhus."
32. Thus spoke the Venerable Ananda, but the Blessed One answered him, saying: "What more does the community of bhikkhus expect from me, Ananda? I have set forth the Dhamma without making any distinction of esoteric and exoteric doctrine; there is nothing, Ananda, with regard to the teachings that the Tathagata holds to the last with the closed fist of a teacher who keeps some things back"
DN 16
The discussion around 32:00 is fascinating. I think of this as very, very relevant to our world today.
Religious/Spiritual adaptations are typically adopted and promoted because they answer questions that were either left unanswered, or even created by a prior system.
For example the Abrahamic laws can be seen, in some sense, as dealing with how to rectify interpersonal behavior in the face of property rights and individual ownership, things which are essential when transitioning from a nomadic life to one based on civilization and agriculture.
But they seemingly introduce the acceptability of the fundamental valuelessness of individuals who violate those rules, or are incapable of producing for themselves... Who was Jesus fighting for? Whores, lepers, and the downtrodden. He sought to re-introduce a concept of human value, irrespective of their apparent choices or their race etc. This was revolutionary, he was spectacularly murdered for it. (Quick aside, if he was alive today in America he likely would suffer exactly the same fate at exactly the people who profess to follow him)
I think this is the line Delson is actually trying to tread here. Make up too much yourself - you become a cult leader... Follow just what you're told - you end up a follower at worst, and at best missing out on an opportunity to really reach people who might otherwise have been able to get something out of it.
Buddha mentioned how parts of a drum are replaced with different materials overtime. Dharma does not age, but the messing by ppl who don't understand Dharma don't want Dharma to continue ages it and replace or mix it with other stuff. Everyone is free to create something of their own, but not using Dharma as the framework or name
Excellent Steve. Btw, would ever interview Reggie ray ? He’s getting up there, would be great for you to have them on sometime soon .
I’ve intuitively felt yoga & Buddhism could be used more together for advancement. Both practices have led me to deep states of consciousness from different entrances. I feel yoga prepared me for Buddhism & now adding yoga back. I’m hybridizing too, which isn’t recommended. Yoga is excellent prep for meditation. They work well together.
LOL the conman getting more free publicity LOL
Why hasn't he given up on his con of being a "teacher" and taken up a regular job since?
His insistence on being a "teacher" is really disturbing. If he worked as, say, a bus driver or a builder, however enlightened, he wouldn't have to continue appearing in these ridiculous shows, trying to reassert his authority.
Yes, you may be deluded and you may be false - so what is it that you have to teach anyone? Get real, dude.
You will never see one of those guys with a regolar job…. Wondering why!!!! They are all teachers, writers, publishers, no one of them is a plumber or pizzaiolo
@@clockworknomad4681 their life purpose is higher
@@clockworknomad4681 Because they would have to do REAL work, and be held accountable.
I've been interested in Kriya Yoga for a while so I'm curious about this one, have any other interviews on this channel talked about it?
Delson did talk a bit about his yoga experience in previous podcasts from Steve, they are quite interesting.
Sri M has a lot of good Interviews and seminars on youtube. They served me as a great introduction.
Don't think these people are gaining any spiritual merit. If these are the type of people twin practice produces it's not a practice in my eyes to follow
My only question at this point is to what extent he is self-deluded. It's clear he's deluding everyone else.
Honest question to any TWIM OR Suttavadins here:
So if the Suttavadins say they are returning to the original suttas of the Buddha -- why does their star pupil and TWIM teacher Delson talk mostly about: Yoga, chakras, trance like states, samadhi nirvakalpa, grace -- none of which are found in the Pali canon 🤔
He has stated repeatedly That TWIM is only one of the methods he teaches. People are different and need different methods, and sometimes a combination of methods. Nirodha is not a trance like state. 🙏
Delson doesn't sound like he's someone who's focused at all on what the Buddha taught. He's now seems more of a cross between Teal Swan and Swami Poobah with his chopra-fu. Like 95% of what's he talking about not only isn't TWIM or Theravada, it's not even really Buddhism anymore. Like he says, he's got his own thing, Delsonism.
But why have any emphasis on what the Buddha actually taught like the Suttavadins urge -- when the star teacher now believes anything goes ?
It must be a bit hard for Suttavadins not to cringe a bit eh?
@@wolfk2258 No cringing here. I am a TWIM practitioner, and I have had positive changes. However, I appreciate having a range of tools to handle my particular condition.
It is not "anything goes", It's anything that WORKS goes, based on experience from this recent time and place. I am not constricted by Bante V, Goenka, Mahasi, or any other tradition or teacher.
Good luck on your spiritual journey, with whatever tradition you have chosen. 🙏
@@tomtillman The thing is that TWIM sells itself as being what the Buddha taught. That's debateable. But they think that, and it sells.
Then Delson throws in yoga, chakras, narodha samadi, grace -- whatever. And now that's fine because it's whatever helps people!
TWIM could have gone without the whole "we teach what the suttas say -- we are THE SUTTAVADINS!" -- WHEN its clear that they're now okay with whatever Delson pulls out of his butt or his experience of the day. It's weird. I guess the suttas weren't really important to TWIM afterall though i saw a recent post by David Johnson with sutta footnotes and references. Why bother? Couldn't you just say now this a technique Bhante Vimalaramsi conceived of and taught ? Or that Delson thinks its okay? Or everything is cool now?
@@wolfk2258 What tradition are you following?✌
Delson stop calling your self a buddhist. Or whatever else. And just walk your own path. Leave the labels for the uninitiated ones. No rules. No Dogmas. Total freedom.
He already did.
It’s interesting the “Being Untangled” guy will heavily criticize Delson, Daniel Ingram, Bhante V, etc. Yet he is unable to give any meaningful advice on how to practice towards awakening. At most, he will point towards a sutta and say “follow this”, but frankly this shows he has no understanding, if he can’t put into his own words what to do.. Anyways, Looking forward to this interview.
I seriously question his practice or objectivity, in his comments he threw away the 6Rs because it's not in the sutta but when we practice the sattipatana we actually discover the 6Rs by ourselves as the natural rolling process of the practice. It's not called 6Rs in the suttas but it's there when we practice. For his defense I would guess he only practiced onepointedness or metta meditation and never got to realize that. Too bad he's throwing out the baby with the bath water.
He’s not setting himself up as a teacher, I don’t think. Why do you feel that sending you to the source means he doesn’t understand? Did you try practicing according to the sutta he pointed you to? Perhaps doing that and then approaching him with questions or concerns would be better? I mean, a person in the comments section asking for advice on enlightenment sounds pretty wild to me. His whole point is to trust the Buddha.
Regarding the satipattana sutta - the Buddha didnt teach dhamma to randoms on the internet. In this sutta he is addressing monks who were ready to receive such teachings. There is a lot of work to be done to properly prepare for and contextualise right mindfulness.
@@_sitting_duck_ being untangled, according to David Johnson, has never even gone on a TWIM retreat. So he is critiquing the 6R’s/meditation taught by TWIM, yet he has never checked for himself if it leads to Nibbana .
@@PlasticAccount It didnt lead to nibbana for david, nor delson - evident by their behaviour and delsons confession and view. But that doesnt answer my question.
Anyway, to address you - I could be wrong, but im pretty sure he (being untangled) said he has been on a TWIM retreat and the reason he’s doing what hes doing is because of the adverse effects he experienced doing that retreat. David Johnson has a lot to lose in this. I don’t know him but I do know that TWIM is not based on virtue or right view so his word may be tied up in worldly concerns.
@@_sitting_duck_ let me preface this by saying I’m not trying to argue with you or make you look bad. With that said, if what you said were true, what’s a better alternative to TWIM that doesn’t have (as many) flaws.
Saying “read the suttas” is valid, and staying as close to them as possible is invaluable, hence why TWIM calls themselves “suttavada”, however, the suttas can be interpreted in countless ways for the most part. So what I’m asking is which interpretation is correct (or closer to being correct)?
There are over 1000’s of students of TWIM that have benefitted tremendously, myself included.
Please host a discussion between Delson, Daniel Ingram, and Shinzen Young on the topic of attainments, attachments, and ethics in teaching
I don't know if that's a great idea. How about this - let's have a discussion between Shinzen Young and Shinzen Young on that topic.
@@hippiechixx Yep. Shinzen needs to be all by himself in an interview.
Forget Ingram and this guy. If you want to know what arhats are capable of listen to Adam Mizner’s interview about Luang Por Jamniun. Ingram and Armstrong are nothing but unripe.
You should get Delson and Dhammarato together for a dialogue.
Lots of solid (but incomplete) book knowledge, but he ties himself into knots when it comes to describing his practice (and lineage) and its goals. In the end, it seems he's become very dependent on a lifestyle of being a (highly paid and world-travelling) teacher, so one cannot help but suspect that this is what brought him here (again). To me, this channel has further diminished in quality.
@@martinspiering5817 To be fair, he is a lay person that charges so much because his sister and mother rely on him a whole lot for support in India. He is not earning money other than through teaching. His father was the breadwinner of the family but unfortunately he passed away around 2020 or so.
@@PlasticAccount Is it really that or is it simply attachment to "the better things in life"? We all have attachments with varying intensities, but if someone publishes a book titled "A Mind Without Craving" and displays overt signs of craving, bells go off. As the saying goes, be wary of skinny chefs.
@PlasticAccount eveey lay person needa find ways to support themselves and their family, struggling with managing work and life. I believe most of the guides and teachers in the Dhamma Sukha center not only donate teaching but also time for free and find other ways to earn money to support their lay life. Buddha"s teaching is not for sale. Ppl or their family have to rely on their karma and diligence to make a living. If a person wants to teach spiritual things as a career for money，feell free to do so as a Inc/company with clear charges instead of acting as a spiritual leader or master or the highest achieved one of Buddhists or Hinduism or brahmism, Daoism, Zen, or whatever. A lot of ppl seeking for buddha's teaching are the ones who need to be protected since they suffer through their precious lives to pursue enlightenment , I plead ppl not to mislead them. The teachers in Goenka's meditation retreat are all 100%volunteers for free and it seems work well.
Erosion occurs within but not from outside. Coming in becomes one part of it and then trying change it under the name of help or reformation of it. That is why the sangha worked so hard to maintain Pali Canon generation by generation. Please don't let opportunists erode TWIM. I am not indicating any person, but in general.@plastic account
@@PlasticAccount😊
This channel in it's entirety is a nesting place of scammers and pretenders. All for the love of money in the name of 'spirituality'
Then why are you here?
@tomtillman good question. You'll see why soon.
@tomtillman because its interesting to watch spiritual materialism at play.
I don't think you're right. There is no 'money' here and Steve does a hard job of bringing a little mainstream and a lot of the weird and fascinating fringes of the spiritual worlds. I've been following him almost from the beginning. Sometimes after 3 minutes I close and sometimes I sit tense and completely transfixed.
@@orshaharorna.shahar8921 I believe mr 4272 was referring to the guests moreso than Steve.
This dudes a joke
Why?
@@narasimha7187 why is he not?
Wow so much anger here. I enjoyed this conversation and the last one with Delson. It was very freeing to me personally. Starting out in a spiritual path is mandatory for most of us. Ending in one is not. Being attached to a spiritual path is an impediment to growth in my opinion. That seems evident by some of the comments I'm reading here.
Does Kriya yoga aims to get off the wheel like Theravada. ie Mahayana aims to return until all are enlightened.
The way Delson is teaching it is mixing it with TWIM at the core level. Thus, yes it does aim to get off the wheel. Because it has TWIM as the underlying foundation (via the relax step and jhanas). He is still a TWIM teacher, he just teaches kriya occasionally.
Lovely interview.
Thank you Delson. I love u think outside the prison cell.
But he has to be careful not to end up in one!
Why do you have this person on again? I think I'm done with this channel. Unsubbed.
Good riddance. Don't need haters around here.
Very interesting and informative. Thank you. 🙏🌸
Great interview Steve , great seeing Deleon again ! Looking forward to another group discussion with him and Daniel 👍
And also bring the biggest ego bag of all - Shinzen Yang 'the meditative scientist'
@@orshaharorna.shahar8921 😂Why not ? Any conversation between the four of them will be far more enlightening than any thing from a jealous bitter hate filled wannabe who’s standing on the sidelines watching everybody else succeed in life.
* Let me guess, you attended one of his retreats and thought you were going to get enlightened overnight only to find out that you didn’t have the chops so you demanded a refund which he denied??? Lol
* The science of Enlightenment“ the book and the lectures from sounds true have done far more to help people reach meditative states and help neuroscientists understand what’s happening in the brain than anything you’ll ever
* Serious question, why do trolls like you even bother watching channels like this ? Why is it the case that people who are smarter and more spiritually developed and then you 10 to trigger such resentment from you ? Why watch people who are more developed than you if it just makes you angry
* Honestly somebody like it was beyond meditative Help, you need some integrative psychotherapeutic shadow work from internal family systems therapy or something, anything to get that Heatfield jealousy out of your heart.
* And I can’t wait till Steve has Ken Wilber on he’s one of my favorites, but I know you’ll be in the comment section spewing stupidity because you’ll be jealous of him too
* Now go home recite some mantras and think long and hard before you respond
Second that!
Excellent podcast!
Unfortunate about the clueless haters and trolls. Attacking someone who has done you no harm, you have never met, and you know little to nothing about might get you some bad Karma.
And the Lords of Karma don't do plea bargaining. Tread carefully! 🙏
At least wear a bib if you’re gonna throat down Delson’s slop like that. Unsightly.
He looks a lot like Yogananda lol
I think that’s part of his rebranding
Fakeananda lol
59:00 excellent teaching
Much respect to Delson. Wonderful interview! Thank you.
Sending loving kindness to everyone. 😊 🙏
My experience with TWIM as a lay person has been a beautiful experience. I’m so very grateful. And I do this meditation practice. We are all just trying to be free of fear, and we all make mistakes but that’s just another learning opportunity.
the virtuoso charlatan
Wow! A LOT to unpack in this video. Thank you for sharing. There is no denying Delson’s many experiences.
Will I get more viewers if I hate on this guy? I put a lot of effort into my videos, this guy just records himself teaching. I can do a rant on that!😊
You wouldn’t be the first but yeah go for it 😂
@delson999 You loved rumble in the jungle, elf on a shelf, now prepare for drama in the Sangha!
@@AscendingGuru 🤣
@@AscendingGuru that could really be an interesting podcast 😂
If you do, I will tell your mother on you.
Great job guys!
💕
wow Delson on fire 46:00
th-cam.com/video/px_4TxC2mXU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=CzREfYZE1CUgXH_0
th-cam.com/video/fD_cijEkJXM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=1hVhlrqc69L48xUl
Delson, any thoughts on the meditation center you are planning?
Maybe I can help. It could be the beginning of a new Genre.
The "No Dogma" center, to get you moving, based on what YOU need to get moving.
@@tomtillman I love it! Still in the works. Email me your thoughts. Pieces are moving in a direction towards something. It’s over the horizon but feels like things will be coming together
th-cam.com/video/j02Lliq7Vss/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=BeingUntangled
this is absolutely crazy. absolutely wildly crazy.