What’s your go-to solution for remote access on Wayland? Have you run into any issues or found a tool that works perfectly for you? Share your setup and experiences below-I’d love to hear what’s working (or not working) for others! Note: A viewer brought up yet another remote desktop/gaming streaming solution: Sunshine and Moonlight ( RD server and RD Client). These tools seem to be primarily designed for low-latency game streaming, though looks like they can be adapted for general-purpose remote desktop access. Thanks for mentioning this. I’ll add this to the decision tree I showed in the video (I can’t find the comment anymore for some reason).
sunshine and moonlight are primary way of doing remote desktop for me(i started doing remote desktop workflow onlyish about few weeks ago using my laptop as a client and hoping to if money permits get myself a proper client device so i dont have to run my laptop all the time) and after im done im gonna showcase it all
I didn't even realise that moving to wayland would affect remote desktop. Remote desktop used to be a bit cumbersome already before, partly because there were multiple old projects and people needed to find the one that still works. I wish remote desktoping would get similar levels of polish as the GUI in general.
Same here. Up to a certain point I did not realize it either. For now, we have to work with what other options are available and figure out the workflow that work best for what we need it for.
As someone who is learning the low-level details of the Wayland protocol (and as someone who hasn't used remote desktop protocols), I think Wayland made the right decision in not being network transparent. I think Network Transparency would've constrained the protocol to make it less suitable as a local desktop protocol. Network transparency means you suddenly have to worry about a much higher latency between the server and the client, dropped packets, byte order between machines, packing data up for the network vs just sending a pointer to some shared memory, etc. etc. None of those are impossible to solve, but solving them at the same time you are trying to make the protocol suitable for rendering a desktop in 4K makes it much more difficult. All of these decisions are much easier to make if the Remote Desktop Protocol and the local desktop protocol are independent of each other. That said, as a user I hate it when features go missing and my workflow no longer works. These are things that companies like Apple and Microsoft can handle by paying developers to spend time making sure things still work, but it is much more difficult if the software development is primarily led by people fixing issues they have.
Thank you for such a thoughtful and detailed comment! I really appreciate when people take the time to write comments that bring value to the conversation . I’m also learning more about Wayland, mostly out of curiosity, and it’s been interesting to see how these changes might affect our workflows on Linux. I totally agree with your point about tools that try to do it all often being less user-friendly compared to more specialized solutions. It’s like that saying-jack of all trades, master of none!
To be honest, Wayland developers had a severe problem that had to be addressed a few days ago by Valve. Valve, and other companies, have been waiting for years for Wayland devs to implement basic features that almost everyone needs. I think that both of you need to see some videos about it, so you'll get an idea of what's really going on with Wayland development.
when i was buying my cheap laptop, my friend proposed this idea of in future to buy a powerful pc that i can remote into (on a local network or using internet remotely) and give my cheap laptop another life. today you have saved me a ton of money by reminding me of this option. thank you very much.
I wish SPICE would work in non virtualised systems. VNC is mostly fine but way slower than RDP. I somehow despise RDP because it comes from microsoft and that there is no comparable protocol that is linux native that has the same quality and bandwidth capabilities. Wayland should have implemented something.
Thanks for bringing up NoMachine-I actually hadn’t heard of it until now! After looking into it, I found that NoMachine does support Wayland as well as X.org, which makes it a solid option for remote desktop access on Linux. It also provides full desktop access and even works with NVIDIA GPUs for hardware-accelerated streaming. It also supports connections from non-Linux systems like Windows and macOS, so it’s quite versatile. I’ll definitely keep it in mind for future comparisons! But at the same time various forums also mention that distros with KDE desktop environments frequently run into problems with it.
Once again, 'the Linux community' fails to understand the difference between Remote Desktop and Screen Sharing. Somehow Microsoft understands what Remote Desktop is, in that it is the ability to connect to a computer from remote and use it securely. That means that the local console (the keyboard, video, and mouse physically attached to the computer) are left in a secure state where a passerby could not view, interject, or intercept the remote users use of the computer. Moreover, Microsoft's implementation of RDP is magical in the sense that it handles different screen resolutions, devices such as printers, sound and video so well as to be practically transparent to the remote user. And if you want to see screen sharing done right, look no further than Quick Assist built into Windows 10 and 11. Most so called remote desktop tools for Linux are little more than screen sharing (and primitive screen sharing at that). Some leave the local console completely unsecured while being accessed remotely. Others make an attempt to provide a more secure environment, but fail if you enable display power savings (real bad for OLED), and they all handle sound and video somewhere between badly and not at all... with printing, different screen geometries, etc. being a total mess. It's funny how apologists of Linux will bemoan MSRDPs lackluster security at a protocol level, when the options for Linux leave the console wide open. And nobody is exposing MSRDP port 3389 to the internet directly.... everyone uses a VPN or Mesh network. Microsoft's remote desktop implementation is the one feature that keeps me on Windows... and I hate that. I want to go to Linux. But my workflow consists of dozens of browser windows with dozens of tabs in each, COTS and LoB applications, the need to print to remote printers, different screen layouts when I connect from home or on my laptop, etc. I need to be able to lock my computer screen, mid sentence in composing an email, go home, VPN and RDP back into the office and pick up right where I left off. No closing apps, saving drafts... nothing. Just start working with no unnecessary impediments. I've been held captive by Microsoft for over 20 years with RDP being so good at what it does. I keep hoping that Linux catches up... but somehow it hasn't.
For KWin, I've found three solutions that work. Krfb which is VNC based, KRdp which is RDP based (but only seems to work with limited RDP clients due to the compression used), and Sunshine/Moonlight. The last one more geared to remote gaming, but seems to work really well with KDE/Wayland.
There is currently a massive issue with sunshine using an old dmabuf protocol for video capture that is no longer used by most wayland compositiors i.e Plasma6, Hyprland. Thus sunshine/moonlight WILL NOT WORK with Hyprland after v41.0 or something like this..
As far as I know, RaspbianOS now uses Wayfire as a compositor. So that would have been interesting as well, as lots of people use their Pi headless. Very good content anyway though! I use RDP for accessing my Raspi but I have problems with the keyboard settings for my language. I can only use the US keyboard. I didn’t get VNC to work at all but that may be me, I’m not an expert.
There is a minor problem with Wayland in general - no support for multiple sessions. How do I mean: back in days of old, you could connect to multiple separate sessions on a single X server and actually have multiple Gnome, KDE, xfce and whatever else running on the same server at the same time. It would be wonderful if Wayland could do multi-session sometime soon.
@@juliaifrank NoMachine works great on X11 with almost no latency and excellent graphical clarity. It can work under Wayland but it is very unstable at this point. I've managed to get it working a couple of times initially but on susbsequent re-connections I often get a completely blank white screen though the mouse cursor moves around, this is running on Arch with KDE Plasma. So, I often revert back to using X11. I wish this could get sorted as it is one of the best remote desktop solutions I've used and it is possible to set up at different locations outside of your own house if you know about port forwarding and DDNS services.
I really love KDE but krdp is the most broken thing they've ever released, I've never once got it to work, not on Wayland or x11. As far as I got was the login after that it breaks and refuses all further connections.
On Ubuntu 22 you couldn't even properly enable grdp via ssh. 24 seems to have slightly better chances. I hate that I have to fight with my OS main features to get features I had easily available in 2001...
I'm sorry, but as long as the lead developers and especially Emmanuele Bassi always come up with "What's the usecase?" and shut the requests down, Wayland will NEVER be ready. It wasn't ready 15 years ago and still isn't ready today. I mean, look at your glitching cursor. No one wants to switch from Windows to Linux, if there are so many obvious bugs.
The comfy old pair of shoes- still doing the job:) But when you’re ready to step into the future, Wayland will be waiting for you with open source arms. 😉
You can use Wayland with that setup if you want! WSLg/WSL2 added a Wayland compositor to WSL that allows you to run X11 and Wayland apps on your windows desktop. Funnily enough, under the hood it uses a Remote Desktop Protocol to expose the app as a regular window. (Not that you necessarily have a usecase... it's just something neat I learned about and wanted to share.)
Nice! Thanks for sharing. I’ll add it to the list of possible solutions. Thanks to everyone sharing their experiences and knowledge, we can compile a comprehensive guide on the remote access options on Wayland :)
I dont why people are making big deal about remote desktop since you can do pretty much everthing in a shell . Ubuntu wayland has better remote desktop speed than its x11 counterpart. Time has come to move to wayland ecosystem and let old x11 die peacefully.
Hello Madam, you're making amazing videos ❤❤❤❤❤! But there are some problems with your channel. So, you get low views than your competitor and your channel will never grow unless problems are solved. You want? I will give you a free Audit report about this channel. As a result, you can easily grow your channel by solving problems.
What’s your go-to solution for remote access on Wayland? Have you run into any issues or found a tool that works perfectly for you? Share your setup and experiences below-I’d love to hear what’s working (or not working) for others!
Note: A viewer brought up yet another remote desktop/gaming streaming solution:
Sunshine and Moonlight ( RD server and RD Client). These tools seem to be primarily designed for low-latency game streaming, though looks like they can be adapted for general-purpose remote desktop access.
Thanks for mentioning this. I’ll add this to the decision tree I showed in the video (I can’t find the comment anymore for some reason).
I have been using rustdesk with varying levels of success in my homelab.
sunshine and moonlight are primary way of doing remote desktop for me(i started doing remote desktop workflow onlyish about few weeks ago using my laptop as a client and hoping to if money permits get myself a proper client device so i dont have to run my laptop all the time) and after im done im gonna showcase it all
I didn't even realise that moving to wayland would affect remote desktop. Remote desktop used to be a bit cumbersome already before, partly because there were multiple old projects and people needed to find the one that still works. I wish remote desktoping would get similar levels of polish as the GUI in general.
Same here. Up to a certain point I did not realize it either. For now, we have to work with what other options are available and figure out the workflow that work best for what we need it for.
As someone who is learning the low-level details of the Wayland protocol (and as someone who hasn't used remote desktop protocols), I think Wayland made the right decision in not being network transparent. I think Network Transparency would've constrained the protocol to make it less suitable as a local desktop protocol.
Network transparency means you suddenly have to worry about a much higher latency between the server and the client, dropped packets, byte order between machines, packing data up for the network vs just sending a pointer to some shared memory, etc. etc. None of those are impossible to solve, but solving them at the same time you are trying to make the protocol suitable for rendering a desktop in 4K makes it much more difficult. All of these decisions are much easier to make if the Remote Desktop Protocol and the local desktop protocol are independent of each other.
That said, as a user I hate it when features go missing and my workflow no longer works. These are things that companies like Apple and Microsoft can handle by paying developers to spend time making sure things still work, but it is much more difficult if the software development is primarily led by people fixing issues they have.
Thank you for such a thoughtful and detailed comment! I really appreciate when people take the time to write comments that bring value to the conversation .
I’m also learning more about Wayland, mostly out of curiosity, and it’s been interesting to see how these changes might affect our workflows on Linux.
I totally agree with your point about tools that try to do it all often being less user-friendly compared to more specialized solutions. It’s like that saying-jack of all trades, master of none!
To be honest, Wayland developers had a severe problem that had to be addressed a few days ago by Valve. Valve, and other companies, have been waiting for years for Wayland devs to implement basic features that almost everyone needs. I think that both of you need to see some videos about it, so you'll get an idea of what's really going on with Wayland development.
thanks for this great video
Thanks for this.
Cheers
Welcome:)
when i was buying my cheap laptop, my friend proposed this idea of in future to buy a powerful pc that i can remote into (on a local network or using internet remotely) and give my cheap laptop another life.
today you have saved me a ton of money by reminding me of this option. thank you very much.
I’m glad I did not spend all this time to make this video for nothing 🙂 I’m glad it helped! Thanks for leaving a comment!
I wish SPICE would work in non virtualised systems. VNC is mostly fine but way slower than RDP. I somehow despise RDP because it comes from microsoft and that there is no comparable protocol that is linux native that has the same quality and bandwidth capabilities.
Wayland should have implemented something.
Many thanks!
You are most welcome:)
Very useful content! Thank you!
Thanks! :) I’m glad it was helpful.
How does nomachine fit into this?
Thanks for bringing up NoMachine-I actually hadn’t heard of it until now!
After looking into it, I found that NoMachine does support Wayland as well as X.org, which makes it a solid option for remote desktop access on Linux. It also provides full desktop access and even works with NVIDIA GPUs for hardware-accelerated streaming. It also supports connections from non-Linux systems like Windows and macOS, so it’s quite versatile. I’ll definitely keep it in mind for future comparisons!
But at the same time various forums also mention that distros with KDE desktop environments frequently run into problems with it.
Once again, 'the Linux community' fails to understand the difference between Remote Desktop and Screen Sharing. Somehow Microsoft understands what Remote Desktop is, in that it is the ability to connect to a computer from remote and use it securely. That means that the local console (the keyboard, video, and mouse physically attached to the computer) are left in a secure state where a passerby could not view, interject, or intercept the remote users use of the computer. Moreover, Microsoft's implementation of RDP is magical in the sense that it handles different screen resolutions, devices such as printers, sound and video so well as to be practically transparent to the remote user. And if you want to see screen sharing done right, look no further than Quick Assist built into Windows 10 and 11.
Most so called remote desktop tools for Linux are little more than screen sharing (and primitive screen sharing at that). Some leave the local console completely unsecured while being accessed remotely. Others make an attempt to provide a more secure environment, but fail if you enable display power savings (real bad for OLED), and they all handle sound and video somewhere between badly and not at all... with printing, different screen geometries, etc. being a total mess. It's funny how apologists of Linux will bemoan MSRDPs lackluster security at a protocol level, when the options for Linux leave the console wide open. And nobody is exposing MSRDP port 3389 to the internet directly.... everyone uses a VPN or Mesh network.
Microsoft's remote desktop implementation is the one feature that keeps me on Windows... and I hate that. I want to go to Linux. But my workflow consists of dozens of browser windows with dozens of tabs in each, COTS and LoB applications, the need to print to remote printers, different screen layouts when I connect from home or on my laptop, etc. I need to be able to lock my computer screen, mid sentence in composing an email, go home, VPN and RDP back into the office and pick up right where I left off. No closing apps, saving drafts... nothing. Just start working with no unnecessary impediments.
I've been held captive by Microsoft for over 20 years with RDP being so good at what it does. I keep hoping that Linux catches up... but somehow it hasn't.
For KWin, I've found three solutions that work. Krfb which is VNC based, KRdp which is RDP based (but only seems to work with limited RDP clients due to the compression used), and Sunshine/Moonlight. The last one more geared to remote gaming, but seems to work really well with KDE/Wayland.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I’ll add Sunshine/Moonlight solution to the guide.
There is currently a massive issue with sunshine using an old dmabuf protocol for video capture that is no longer used by most wayland compositiors i.e Plasma6, Hyprland. Thus sunshine/moonlight WILL NOT WORK with Hyprland after v41.0 or something like this..
As far as I know, RaspbianOS now uses Wayfire as a compositor. So that would have been interesting as well, as lots of people use their Pi headless. Very good content anyway though! I use RDP for accessing my Raspi but I have problems with the keyboard settings for my language. I can only use the US keyboard. I didn’t get VNC to work at all but that may be me, I’m not an expert.
Thanks for the suggestion and leaving a comment! I’ll look into Wayfire. Could be a good video topic.
There is a minor problem with Wayland in general - no support for multiple sessions. How do I mean: back in days of old, you could connect to multiple separate sessions on a single X server and actually have multiple Gnome, KDE, xfce and whatever else running on the same server at the same time. It would be wonderful if Wayland could do multi-session sometime soon.
Totally agree!
I like NoMachine. NoMachine does offer some support for Wayland on Linux, but with some caveats and limitations. It can only get better over time.
Thanks for mentioning this. I have not heard of it before. I’ll add to the guide.
@@juliaifrank NoMachine works great on X11 with almost no latency and excellent graphical clarity. It can work under Wayland but it is very unstable at this point. I've managed to get it working a couple of times initially but on susbsequent re-connections I often get a completely blank white screen though the mouse cursor moves around, this is running on Arch with KDE Plasma. So, I often revert back to using X11. I wish this could get sorted as it is one of the best remote desktop solutions I've used and it is possible to set up at different locations outside of your own house if you know about port forwarding and DDNS services.
I really love KDE but krdp is the most broken thing they've ever released, I've never once got it to work, not on Wayland or x11. As far as I got was the login after that it breaks and refuses all further connections.
Thanks for sharing!
On Ubuntu 22 you couldn't even properly enable grdp via ssh. 24 seems to have slightly better chances. I hate that I have to fight with my OS main features to get features I had easily available in 2001...
I'm sorry, but as long as the lead developers and especially Emmanuele Bassi always come up with "What's the usecase?" and shut the requests down, Wayland will NEVER be ready. It wasn't ready 15 years ago and still isn't ready today.
I mean, look at your glitching cursor. No one wants to switch from Windows to Linux, if there are so many obvious bugs.
i think gnome itself had a remote access tool/protocol... what is it?
grdctl, was playing with it recently, do not recommend
I was not aware of this. Thanks for bringing this up.
The world is moving ahead and I am still using windows 10 and wsl w/terminal interface Ubuntu.
The comfy old pair of shoes- still doing the job:)
But when you’re ready to step into the future, Wayland will be waiting for you with open source arms. 😉
You can use Wayland with that setup if you want! WSLg/WSL2 added a Wayland compositor to WSL that allows you to run X11 and Wayland apps on your windows desktop. Funnily enough, under the hood it uses a Remote Desktop Protocol to expose the app as a regular window.
(Not that you necessarily have a usecase... it's just something neat I learned about and wanted to share.)
Nice! Thanks for sharing. I’ll add it to the list of possible solutions. Thanks to everyone sharing their experiences and knowledge, we can compile a comprehensive guide on the remote access options on Wayland :)
very nice channel explaining interesing stuff which other channels never talk about like wayland for example.. subscribe :)
Thank you so much for your kind comment! 😊
Wayland has destroyed remote streaming Steam to my Iphone or laptop.
I dont why people are making big deal about remote desktop since you can do pretty much everthing in a shell . Ubuntu wayland has better remote desktop speed than its x11 counterpart. Time has come to move to wayland ecosystem and let old x11 die peacefully.
2100 is gonna be the year of linux (probably) lessgooo
Linux remote desktop is excellent/exceptional and gutter trash slime at the same time.
Schrödinger’s remote desktop 🤓😁
Hello Madam, you're making amazing videos ❤❤❤❤❤! But there are some problems with your channel. So, you get low views than your competitor and your channel will never grow unless problems are solved. You want? I will give you a free Audit report about this channel. As a result, you can easily grow your channel by solving problems.