Yep. I’m from Chicago. And everybody on my block was into Martial Arts. Lupe’s fiasco family lived across the street and his father was our sensei and taught all of us youngsters martial arts at his dojo. And he gave us authentic weapons to practice with. I was eight years old with real nunchucks and Chinese stars. All of the cats on my Block, who were gangbanging all knew martial arts and I used to wear them karate shoes. This was late 70s early 80s.
Not in the south because there wasn't allowed to see certain things a listing to certain music in the south they wasn't even allowed to have Gangs because remember that's a red state if there was any Asian movies or any black Hip Hop it wasn't in the south in the 50s 60s 70s Later on then it came in the south
@@robertalexander2478 🤣😂🤣 was the Bronx was Segregated with gates at its borders & only allowing so called "black" people in with ID cards on their chest making sure it wasn't a PR or Dominican "colored" person by mistake "?" 💀💀💀
@@robertalexander2478 exactly each other. And even the Puerto Ricans that was around DIDN'T EVEN SPEAK IT AROUND THEM. And they dressed like Black boys. They really need to stop this "OOOOH IT WAS TOGETHER" sht cause no it wasn't.
He just didn't know. I don't think he intentionally wanted to credit Herc as anything. I believe it's all HE KNEW... And no one challenged what he was saying.
I wish John Brown can finally tell his story. If he ever does, many will be able to piece together where and how this culture spread throughout the Bronx. Fat Mike took his own time, went to the Tunnel, in a wheelchair, n basically told us where this culture was starting to formulate. Smokey said it. Phase 2 said it. John Brown, who knew Mario since they were real young, has some interesting info to share.
I agree. I was hoping that he would do a documentary on his history as a DJ and his time at the Plaza Tunnel. In actuality, when all the written/oral history is put in context, the big 3 DJs are, DJ Mario (cultural movement) DJ John Brown (Bboy music/ anthems) and DJ/MC Coke LaRock (evolution by adding poetry) In my opinion, it seems their history is being manipulated and erased intentionally due to ethnic bigotry and greed.
BA always create where ever they go from their own culture! For example, a military soldier named PVT Willie Lee Duckworth Sr. from Sandersville, Georgia was stationed at Fort Slocum, New York in 1944. He is credited by the United States Army for creating the very first military cadence ever during the time when the military was segregated. He introduced it to his fellow BA soldiers while marching. The white soldiers were amazed at the cadence at the time and then implemented cadence into the Army. Cadences are used in the military everywhere even to this day. See the pattern....just like hip hop and everything else....BA always creates throughout their lived experiences but the NON-BA copies and follows the BA/BA creations.
That's my Webster PAL flyer... Riff170 piece. January 21, 1978 jam. Herc and Smokey battled at Webster. To be fair, Smokey used to be the main DJ there on the 9s.. The apartment parties at his place on Grant Ave were legendary. On my life, I believe the genesis of it all was at the Tunnel... the Spades, Monk, Kool Dee, Mario, Herc, Coke, Smokey.. Phase2, Wallace Dee, Bosco Rock, and the FIRST first generation bboys.. they all partied there listening to John Brown. John Brown wasn't the first DJ.. but he was the first to play what he played in that atmosphere. That atmosphere created by the Spades and burning and dancing and the culture of the era. It all came together at the Tunnel and Smokey, Herc, and Mario all brought it back to their hood. That's why they're all claiming to be first. They took that spark from the tunnel and lit the fire in their areas.
Been telling people for 2 years now. U also factor in, Robert Hevelow was a bartender at the Tunnel. When it closed in May of 73, and not too long after he took John Brown as his first DJ at the new club he opened...The Hevelo! By 75, JB, went away to college to play ball. Herc filled the void. The rest is history!
@dreval7957 Yessir.. and Smokey also played at the Hevelow.. both Herc and Smokey also played at the Parkside Plaza in Mt. Eden which was also owned by Bob. Like you said... JB went off to college to play ball, Smokey went to the military... Herc was left. And it's not that Herc doesn't deserve his props but there were other players in this (Smokey and Mario) that were his contemporaries... And John Brown, of course, who was the lightening rod through which it all funneled.
@jd-pt1xx , Facts...Believe me I know. Been to early Mario, Bam, Flash, n Herc parties...plus John Brown n I speak periodically. He and his partner definitely kicked the culture off at the Tunnel! Respect!
There is no question regarding Krs-One's fervent dedication. What is the value of an individual who bears the torch if they are largely misguided in the narratives they articulate about its historical background?
I remember seeing things about KRS temple of hip hop organization years ago. It comes off like a religious cult to me. I remember seeing the way a couple members would talk about him as well and it came off cult like too. The way they call him "Techa" instead of just his name, all the admiration and putting him above themselves etc.
KRS-One hast to apologize again because he apologized a few years ago already For a different missed quote on hip-hop, now he hast to do it again but really cool Herc should be the one that’s apologizing cause he put the battery in the back of all the people that Lord Jamar named to jump out the window like they did Saying hip-hop started from reggae music. Salah 🥈gyz.
That’s your perspective he is one of the greatest, definitely not the greatest. Reggae and no other type of worst Indian Music or culture had anything to do with the beginning formulation origins of this hip-hop music, & thats a fendi fact on top of facts, Herc put the battery in all their backs, he’s the one that should be apologizing, KRS & them just ran with the faults narratives of “without reggae there will be no such thing is hip-hop”. Salah 🥈gyz.
And like I said before KRS apologized one time already and I’m sure the reason why he’s not replying to anything is because he doesn’t want to seem the fool apologizing twice. So all that he doesn’t need to apologize for anything greatest MC stuff is out the window. The man apologized one time already and doesn’t want to apologize again which is understandable since he’s “the teacher”., that’s not a good look! Salah 🥈gyz.
I'm 52 from The Bronx and I don't remember sedgwick Ave being middle class. The whole Bronx was poor and the South Bronx was the poorest of The Bronx. The only section of The Bronx where there is money is a section called Riverdale. Other than that, I never seen middle class in The Bronx. Some do a lil better or a lil worse than others, but for the most part it was low income all over. And still is.
@trevorcunningham8687.... not true.. there are are few places in The Bronx that was "middle class" middle income back then... all around throggs neck, Pelham bay... etc.. and if you have armed security guards in your lobby with carpet vending machines and pay phones in your lobby with air conditioners!!...BACK IN 1973!! that's definitely "middle class environment...(which is a good thing )... put your mind back in 1973!! many of us was hot in the summertime with fans!!
@TheCulture..Starts1971 I'm from Tracey Towers and many people thought you couldn't be on welfare and live there and that wasn't true. And we had several doormen, security, cleaners, milk, juice, soda and cigarette machine plus a pay phones. I just believe that middle class is a myth. It's just the haves and have nots. And where I lived I saw more have nots than I did haves. And I moved into the Towers in Oct 73 at 2yrs old. Plus I went to JHS 143 wit kids from sedgwick and they didn't seem to have any more or less than any other poor kids that went there. I just never could wrap my head around the term middle class. A lost job can take you right outta that, so how middle is it. If a guy in Riverdale loses his job he probably won't have to move. That was never the case on sedgwick or anywhere else in The Bronx except for Riverdale.
@trevorcunningham8687... This video says middle class ENVIRONMENT!! Key word is " ENVIRONMENT"...there is upper middle class lower middle class .. the working poor...etc...""Middle class income" IS NOT RICH... Sounds like you confusing "middle class" with RICH...middle class income means your yearly salary is over a certain amount...Middle class DOESN'T mean you don't have to work on your job anymore!! middle income STILL HAVE TO WORK or you will go broke soon... there's a few videos that explain the income range of middle class... AND YES your right..there has been a great decline of the middle class nationwide...so what you saying may be somewhat true... if you go to Sedgwick nowadays its probably different from 1973... but again... context is everything... we talking about 1973 ENVIRONMENT!! apartments built for air conditioners for almost every room, armed guards in the lobby, carpet, vending machines balcony/terrace and your own laundromat in the building back in 1973 is definitely middle class environment and was considered luxury to a lot of us who was economically "poor".. that was like the Jeffersons to us...
@@JUBABU4 I'm just speaking on what I remember seeing as a kid. Being born in 71 of course I have no memory of things taken place in 71. But I do remember things from the 70's.
Let me sum all this up for y’all! The Dj, The Rapper, The Breakdancer, and The Graffiti Painter make up Hip Hop Elements! Don’t forget about Grandmaster Flowers!
@ I can dig it. I didn’t grow up in NYC but I sure as hell grew up Hip Hop lol. Started djing in 1978. Oh wait there was no such thing as hip hop then though lol.
@ I salute you brother. You started a few yrs before me so did I miss anything? U know the movie The Get Down is so educational and entertaining and I think that every young person should watch that in schools. Instead of reading a Trump Bible! lol. We have so much culture and history in that 5 decades.
Grandmaster Flowers was a Dee-Jay doing graffiti in mid to late 60's in Brooklyn where many were scared to go out there. I had cousins in the Bronx so we went back and forth. In the Bronx DJ Mario was before Herc, Bam, & Flash. DJ Smokey was also.
Thank you Lil Black Jack. I haven’t posted in a while because some of my comments received backlash. In another video about a year ago. I said we were dancing and playing break beat before Mario was playing in the park in 71. It was in 68 or 69, I also said some of our moves we copied from Sammy Davis Junior. Who was from Monroe housing projects I believe. In many people who weren’t there talk so much shit on that comment. I also said in other videos that kool Herc never played in Cedar Park. And I believe you had a video don’t know the date of it Coke La Rock said it out of his own mouth that they never played at Cedar Park. Again, thank you for these videos
@ Sammy Davis’s mother was Afro Cuban. Sammy Davis lied about his mother and said she was Puerto Rican because of the situation between America and Cuba politically in that time period. And I was afraid of it hurt his chances of getting movie deals, and record deals in Hollywood.
@ unbelievable how much you hate on Boricua talent. It’s like arguing with the wall..I can’t win. 🤣did a Boricua humiliate or rob you when you was little??
@Titoduran357 im just wondering when black people tell you the truth of a situation under jim crow. Do you just discount it because you have a latino narrative?
@Titoduran357 Sammy Davis Jr dad was BLACK and his mom was PR Jew is not a race it's a religion What are you trying to say?? News had a part in creating hop hop??? Gtfoh What does his racial make up have to do with anything especially when it's a fact that he loved his life as a Black man
I have a question why don’t you guys make a documentary to set the record straight kinda like how Tariq Nasheed made his documentary on the origins of hip hop and then put it out on Blu ray and have a film release that would be awesome 🎉
He's referring to Sammy Davis Jr and The Nicholas Brothers...ANYTHING related to black people that came across the TV screens we were all over it. When my Dad took me to the movies to see Enter the Dragon, we emulated that too...sometimes better than dudes whose parents paid for lessons.🃏²³°
Scott La Rock, who was FBA, was the founder of Boogie Down Production, like Brown of Leaders of The News School. His unfortunate demise in 87' left KRS-One in charge of the BDP movement. But make no mistake, without the curation of these FBA men creating these platforms there would be no Busta Rhymes or KRS-One, at least not in the current posture that we know them. Busta claims he was kicked out the group but that's false, he abandoned the group during their most crititical period when they were on the rise bc he was naturally disloyal & always wanted to be solo. Like many non lineage individuals he defected & piggy backed off A-Tribe-called Quest & later J-Dilla to get on. Now he's insulting the very ones who birthed his career, as is KRS. Sad!!! 🤦🏿♂️
@@ralft No he was not his mother & father were both 100% FBA. I know this for a fact she was a government employee in the 60's in Queens. Go try that bullsh*t with somebody else I'm not new to this by far!!! I remember when SLR got killed all over D-Nice fkn with some other dudes broad. U better know what u talkin bout b4 u address me with BS 🤨
@@ralft No he was not his mother & father were both 100% FBA. I know this for a fact she was a government employee in the 60's in Queens. Go try that BS with somebody else I'm not new to this by far!!! I remember when SLR got killed on accnt of D-Nice slid'n some other dudes broad. He got his name after fellow Bronx rapper T la Rock although they was from different crews. Better know what u talk'n bout b4 u address me 😑
hiphop was either created by black americans or it wasn't right? i get it! jamar is right! this isn't that complicated. its just another epidemic of the internet. i mean we can break this down in so many ways.
Herc is cool as long as you are allowing him to co-opt your culture and cultural music. This dude Herc has remained quiet while Jamaicans lie and claim FBA cultural music.
He's recently came out and reiterated he was the father of hiphop in an interview alongside his sister. He is a cultureless quack, no need to try to clean up his image.
I agree. The “mainstream” narrative is mostly propaganda based but I’ve noticed that the Hip Hop museum has been trying to get the history accurate in the background. A recent article they just released Beyond DJ Kool Herc: The Unsung Pioneers and Communities That Shaped Hip-Hop’s Early Evolution. “The Collective Genesis of Hip-Hop: Beyond DJ Kool Herc DJ Kool Herc is often hailed as the founding father of hip-hop after DJing the infamous block party at 1520 Sedgwick Avenue in the Bronx for his sister’s birthday party, but pivotal contributions from South Bronx gang The Black Spades, the Bronxdale housing projects, and Disco King Mario are often overlooked. The Broader Roots of Hip-Hop Culture While Herc is celebrated for integrating breakbeats into his DJ sets, numerous pioneers do not regard this pivotal moment as the birth of hip-hop since the culture had already been thriving before this innovation. Hip-hop did not originate from a single individual or event. It emerged from the collective efforts of a community and culture” Although this is a start it’s not good enough, all the false propaganda needs to be removed from the mainstream including anything associated with that phony Aug. 11th flyer and the false November 12th date that Charlie Rock even admits that the Zulu Kings etc. did not start at this time. Some started transitioning from Black Spades to Zulu Kings after the police shooting of some of the members and someone named “Soulski” in January
Facts but he's said it before. I was watching them and became Americanized." And the guy he credited from back in Jamaica was Partners with Coxstone Dodd. The Founder of Studio One. And even that man has said "I copied from Black American Artists on the Radio." they were copying our songs, Aretha Franklin, Dionne Warwick, Diana Ross Etta James ETC... and that's how Reggae was formed. They added their own spin to already made music. So if Jamaican influences are what HipHop is made of, where was the Jamaican influences in early HipHop? It wasn't any. It's all Funk, Blues, and Hard James Brown Drum Solos. It's not that important to me, I'm just adding what I've seen through videos and Wikipedia. And before the 50th Anniversary HipHop is the Creator of Reggae Music. And after that Anniversary the following YEAR, Herc and Jamaican influences showed up in Wikipedia. Mario has been placed and edited in and out of the history. Now Herc is the Father of HipHop and a lot of people know that's just not true. The Black Spades say otherwise.
KRS 1 is not going to speak on Hip Hop with the PIONEERS! How could he be a scholar and teacher of Hip Hop when the people who created it is present? He becomes the student and the Hip Hop was started by a Jamaican and everybody was there LIE would look silly talking to the PIONEERS! Plus the lie is the bag!
Dude is real. Knew him for a long time. As a youngin, I was one of those cats hustling at Path Mark n pitching pennies with them cats. Glad to see him humbled now because he was putting that work in on the Rock. Believe me....I know!
35:15 Young Blackjack mentions Josie Wells from Patterson Projects. I could be wrong but I heard he is the younger brother of Peanut from the Black Spades 17th div. and original leader of Casanovas. That means that Blackjack was also Peanuts cousin
SALUTE Like and Shared From Boston Massachusetts where we celebrate HipHop Culture Awareness Month of Massachusetts that was est. 11/18/2011 by MC SPICE
Yes it has its variety like rnb has it variety, yet nothing like what comes out of hip hop, its like being on the block when you in the hip hop industry, you cant see it from past to present. I understand what your saying too,, yet nothing like hip hop, thats a whole different level. Wholeeeeeee diffrent level
@OzdenBolatgiran that's because that's all you want to see that's because the television tells you that black people are the ones that are violent. I guarantee you those 13 correctional officers in Elmira that killed that man that was handcuffed listen to country and western there's so much that goes under the table That You Don't See but your mind is asleep even though you think you're awake when you talk that nonsense about nothing like hip hop but that's all you doing is talking you not making much sense. The most violent people in America are people who listen to that music and their crimes don't go reported on the news it's just a fact but I digress
I want to see video footage of this middle-class Bronx I want to see video footage a black folks living middle class status in the Bronx during the time of allegedly when Hip-Hop supposed to have started
@Rueben6869... ok thank you... I saw the first 5 minutes of it.. and didn't see cholly say anything about dj phase... its hard for me to watch that Spanish guy for too long cuz of his pride and stubbornness against the truth... so when I feel up to it (probably in the far future) I'll try to look at the whole video..but thank you.. I appreciate the notice
@@TheCulture..Starts1971 that spanish dude be lying so much..sometimes I have a hard time watching too. he's got me blocked. he was just on live Tuesday morning claiming rap battles comes from Europe in the 1500s..
Mario Father played Music on his Sound System before they came to the Bronx. All Mario did was continue what his Father use to do down there. They had equipment and Kool DJ DEE doesn't get a lot of Credit because his Sound System played a big part of MARIO having a good sound. I believe Kool DJ DEE was the first ECHO CHAMBER. This is all Bronxdale Houses
@@JePe-on4ff That didn't happen until the blackout in '76... that's when hip hop really spread all over, because they looted a lot of the DJ equipment... but in '71, they bought that equipment.
@@KtotheG stealing been going on since the beginning of time what are you talking about you can't be serious to think people didn't steal in the 70s 😂😂😂
@@JePe-on4ff I said in '76... learn how to read... Mario didn't steal his equipment. He got it from Kool DJ Dee, who bought his. Those guys were hustlers. They were making money in the streets. You can't fit that stuff in your pocket or jacket. You would have to burglarize a store at night and hope you don't get caught... or you would go in knock over the store clerks in the middle of the day and maraud the place. You're mad because my dudes had money and you didn't.
Nothing but childish division division and some more division... Small hats been running the game getting all the loot since day one! Stop the nonsense its embarrassing!
That was not correct because when Snoop Dog and Death Row came out in the West coast Wu Tang came out of Yonkers not the Bronx. That was the year Yusef Hawkins was killed in Brooklyn. So, KRS forgot HIP HOP was sold out by Surg Knight and Erv Gotti we never had kids being beaten to death like that.
@@gradeawork2242100 and they act like something is owed to them meanwhile many of them wouldn’t be relevant of it wasn’t for those putting in that work, keeping it alive, and moving it forward.
@@nthatomokgata I’m waiting son. What is your contribution to the culture? Nothing. I suggest you just stay out the way. Hiphop culture doesn’t need people like you.
@@gheewhiz and what have you done for the culture other than text your bum thoughts. 💭 you haven’t done nothing. No music no books no institutions. You guys are dust.
Yall gotta stop it! Why aren’t there no videos of nobody else doing them before us? And still till today we come up with slang dances style of dress and yall copy all of it look how yall get yall hair cut that’s universal too right! Facts are facts and they have no feelings or lies!
"Kool Herc played at the basketball court BECUZ OF MY AUNT!!!!!!" ......sounds like Joe MUHFCKIN Pesci LIKE S***!!!!!!!! PRECIATE yah brothas droppin these M.O.A.B. on this hip hip shit......🙏!!!!!!!!!!! S/O to Lord Jamar ......👊!!!!!!!!
@Superlongevityinstitute Intellectually he definitely is. Remember KRS-1 said that he doesn't care what Bambatta did. That was after he knew what he did. So don't let your Groupie love blind your common sense. Because he did make a song that's probably your favorite called "13 and GOOD."🤦🏿♂️
@@prfu1222being nude in a scene and POSING nude are two different things. You make it sound like he was doing a sex scene when that actually wasn't. Stop it.
Roots, we get it. But, what is it a thousand times that nobody understands? Herc, Afrika Bambooty, & the Zulu Nation were the ones who took those original elements & created a culture called Hip Hop & brought it to the light of the media. Hip Hop is NOT only the elements, it's handshakes, distinct walking, fashion, communication which was CLEARLY an urban collaboration amongst a certain community. If it was JUST Fba, it would have died out like your typical fads. Original Hip Hop is BRONX, NY not a specific race. Stop lying to yourselves.
Boy stop. American negroes ain't been influenced by nobody else's fashion. We are trendsetters. And if there was any truth to that last portion of what you stated you would have been seen said cultural elements in those respective countries in other parts of the Americas. Quit the shit. Making up a category to a genre you did not create just to place yourself/others in the story in nasty work son. This is some straight colonizer work, like saying all black people come from Africa. Tell us your sir name is Colo'n without telling us your last name is Colo'n. Nasty work. But this is North American, Southeastern, Eastern Woodland indigenous culture, and the Conquistador's words have never been law in these parts, and neither has any effort ever prevailed. Know the land, know your story, not history. 🪶🪶🪶
The black spades created hip hop culture not tne zulu nation, bambataa was a young spade. You mentioned fashion, communication etc which are black American since the slang is ebonics and the hip fashion is black American as well, how can it be a sub culture when west Indian's and Latino were emulating exactly what the African Americans were doing? The three west Indian's (bam, herc and flash) copied African American culture and became Americanised as they had to fit in to become part of the culture. To your last point about hip hop would of died out if it was only African American, why would it???? The most influential rappers, breakdancers and djs have all been African Americans like melle mel, rakim, kool g rap, Mr wave, flip rock, Theodore, Mario, smokey, kool dj dee, dj premier etc. Many genre which are created by African Americans are still pretty much in active: jazz, blues, r&b, soul, funk. Hip hop would be pretty much the same just like the other genre.
@@fk90-b9z honestly been following & have participated in the culture since the 70's. I honestly NEVER looked at it as solely a "black" thing. It was an NY/NJ inner-city urban culture thing. In where us writers, b-boys, beat-boxers, DJ's, or emcees could escape reality of school or gangs in the street & collaborate for HOURS, we had our own talk, pound shakes, obsession for fashion, etc. It's crazy to hear all this because the Black kids were so loving & accepting. Ironically, the Latino's that were supposedly Hip-Hop (not all) gave me a tougher time & even were violent back in the 80's & 90s when it came to anything that had to do with the culture. Again, thanks to Hip Hop & having the power to relate through the culture, almost all the greatest associates I've made are kind hearted black people til this day. It's a Nyc urban thing imo.
@@ChamP10nk1ngSalute... all I know for sure is that to think a street culture coming from New York in that era somehow wouldn't have foreigners involved is crazy as hell to me and I guess when money and a certain level of dignity was somehow bestowed upon the "culture" all of the sudden who create what is being disputed. Up until maybe 4 years ago no one disputed the INFLUENCE of Caribbean cultures on hip hop and now we done let em divide us yet again. I don't think the OG jazz people ever disputed that there were white folks involved but we so starved to have SOMETHING to say only black people create this that we're denying things now
Young Black Jack is the truth.. that Brother said VINNY VANCE from Vanderveer in spofit...my cousin Michael Merritt was in Spofit and Goshin Annex at that time..I used to visit him facts..Salute to Young Black Jack.. he tell no lies..ya heard.🫡
Ok, So what are the Elements of HIPHOP Graffiti Breaking MC'ing DJ AM I right about this?? No, I'm not from the Bronx and No, I'm not directly connected to Hiphop in no kind of way. I'm just a fan of the facts. And the facts that I've found line with FBAY in Bronxdale Houses.
Thank you, it was about having fun. Now according to DJ PHASE the rapping part started by cracking on people over the break beats while the music played and they specifically did that over the break part. According to PHASE they were just kids in 70'-71'.
@@WarriorsCherub999 well, I understand that. But we're strictly talking about HIPHOP. The Elements that make up HIPHOP was present and complete in 70'-71' you're talking about Rapping. Rapping dates back to damn near the 20's.
Hip Hop as all musical forms it’s a melting pot of cultural influences and styles. No one American racial group has ever created anything alone .period
@ for one..graph writing my friend was done by white dudes in the Bronx and the other burrows for years be for hip hop was even created, black, brown and white kids all did graffiti together. Most of the original break beats aside from jame brown came from white records and artist along with salsa records. Most all of the first hip hop rap recordings were produced by white guys, look who produced Planet Rock just as one example. Hip Hop isn’t just Rapping. I’m 54 years old and this thing we call Hip Hop is my professional historical life’s journey my Homeboy . I’m sick with this..I know what I’m talking about .
@sreyna3000 You are out of your mind! Salsa ain’t have nothing to do with hip hop and all music genres were created by US BLACK AMERICANS! So all that BS you talking is all pure BULLSHIT! Latinos hated us then and still hate us now it was never no Black and yall fake brown unity! Yall not brown the majority of yall blood comes from Spaniards that’s who yall really are and that’s how yall classify yourselves as white show your 🪪 bet it says white! We know who yall are! It’s a cold blooded lie to say that no music was created by one racial group! Question who created r&b who created funk who created rock & roll who created jazz soul and so on nobody helped us create any music. We are the heart beat of the world and all of yall follow what we do all the way to the point where yall have to lie just to make yourself feel better! Knock it off we have been doing this before any Latino ever touched foot on this soil!
@@sreyna3000 First of all every culture comes with Language and the language in Hip Hop comes from black american vernacular not every body else proof the word (1) Hip came from the Jazz area (2) Hop came from the Lindy Hop dance (3) Boogie down for start came from our vernacular now tell us what vernacular from Puerto Ricans are Jamaicans are any other culture we been saying back in the 70s and far as for break beats we been doing that like from Motown to James brown funk and Soul Train to disco know other group of people in North America has more genres of music and dances then black american now prove me wrong no more capping son you hear one of our slang again AND I KNOW REAL HISTORY NOT KRS-ONE FALSE HISTORY.
Lord Jamar said Graffiti & Breakdancing is not Hip Hop?😂😂😂 He does not know what he is talking about. These dudes are all proudful. We the Children invented Hip Hop as a collective , no one race started it - our culture was us against our parents Generation - our movement was a "rebel" movement like Punk & Reggae we were anti everything our parents did , we were rebelling everything that was theirs, Disco dancing pop music & yes even RACISM ; all that mattered when you stepped in the cypher was SKILLS - nothing else matttered"!" Proof of this is in the 2 of the elements Jamar conviently says are not Hip Hop which is "Graff & BBoying" these two ellements were dominated by white boys bombers & Puerto Ricans & Dominicans breakdancing. Hip Hop was not a "race" movement it was a "childrens" movement ; Children don't see black & white ."
@ how is it a lie when your blood line stems from the seed which comes from the father? You said a portion of Guyana lineage,😂😂 there is no such thing you are what your father is. Tell the truth shame the…. Y’all are arguing about who started and who is credited for HipHop with a half and half leading the charge. Isn’t it ironic 😂😂😂😂
There's probably some kernels of truth to Latino contribution with the demographics of Bronx. You had Carlos Mendez, (Charlie Chase), DJ Wiz…however FBA (Foundationaly Black American) in origins. Facts that can't be obfuscated in FBA founding on all components of hip hop (except graffiti art). This stuff is timestamped and recorded 1 Herc never said he transplanted hip hop from his homeland of Jamaica to NYC. In fact, we hear, the opposite on a 1989 recorded interview. He notes that people weren't feeling his native music at the time, so funk and soul was played…and James Brown was the main one. 2 Puerto Rican pioneers like Ken Swift, Crazy Legs, Mr Wiggles , Jo Jo, Willie Will, and Alien Ness, a PR ZuluKing, 1970s -all allude to the African American origins of the dance (more details in pt 2 replies). Legs says in like the latter 70s, they would call it Morano style whenever the moves that came from early 70s Zulu Kings was noticed (exemplified by FrostyFreeze). Morano denotes black and original in this context. He says this is the original style, tho played out by the latter 70s - very very early 80s. Puerto Rican youth added much to that. The earliest b-boy crew people can recall by name and memory has consistantly been the Zulu Kings in interviews over time (circa 1973, probably still Black Spades or Baby Spades till 75, but they were Bronx Burning or Uprocking to minor floor moves as Spades before 1975). The b-boys back then were African American youth like Sasa, Trixie, PeeWee Dance, CharlieRock, N….Twins, Dancing Doug, Beaver, Lil Boy Keith and more. After 1976-77 the original African American youth began moving away from the dance. It was becoming "old hat", and more and more Puerto Rican youth picked up on, added to, and expanded on it. Crazy Legs said the brothas would say THAT'S PLAYED OUT when he would break in like 78-79 There's early 90s footage of Lil-Boy Keith (his 70s street name), demonstrating early ZuluKings style. He's also in the 1984 documentary Beat This, A Hip Hop History. Footage of him reminds me of KenSwift's description of old style breaking being more sporadic and lots of freezes. Also PeeWee Dance hanging with RockSteady in the early 90s..going off, Spade dancing, Bronx Burning ,uprocking… In a 1984 episode of The Scene ( Detroit), Bronx native Kurtis Blow, famous 70s rapper and "breakdancer", was asked what came first, breaking or rap. Kurtis tells the host that back in 1972, the dance was called Burning. This is well before the modern Ytb debates. Important to mention, because only people in ZuluKings neighborhood remembers the term. 3 In a interview circa 1984, Melle Mel was asked where do you guys get names like Grand Master Flash. Long before Ytb and Internet and debates on hiphop's origins, Mel tells us…we were influenced by people like Grand Master Flowers (African American) of 60s Brooklyn. Keep in mind that Flowers opened up for James Brown in 1968 at Yankee Stadium in Bronx, NY…..perhaps the initial point it was transplanted from Brooklyn to Bronx. Melle Mel, as well as Mr Ness (Scorpio of Furious Five) was in a b-boy crew called D Squad. Fellow member Fuji of the long forgotten group said this was 1974 in middle school. There is a picture of Mel and Fuji in more recent times and Fuji in the 70s. In a documentary about a Bronx, NY neighborhood called Simpson Street, filmed 1977 and released in 79, we hear perhaps the first publicly broadcast hip hop sound. After the narrator finishes speaking near the beginning, the next scene opens up to a roof top party with a 70s rap sound. Some people, claiming they were there that night, say that's Mr Ness and Grand Master Flash you hear in the background(?)...Melle Mel is mentioned in the list of shout-outs, so it likely was. Sounds like Coke La Rock's description of his original 1972-73 style… A list of shout-outs to people in the room and a little rhyming in between. In the 77 doc, young blacks and Puerto Ricans hanging out together seem to get along very well like street family. 4 Coke la Rock (African American) was the first Emcee/rapper (in hiphop) and best friend of Kool Herc, going back to middle school in the 1960s . He says that it wasn't a music genre back then, but it's just the way he talked on the Mic when giving announcements…and the people loved it. This is a very important detail because specifically African American announcers and performers have always rhyme talked to beats in this manner, going back to the 30s and 40s. Back then ya might hear … "WELL AH REET, ALL ROOT, ALL RIGHT…BE AT THE JITTER BUG CONTEST TONIGHT. You have the Co Real Artist out of Los Angeles (total opposite side of country) with the 1974 song "What ya Gonna Do In The World Today". They sound like The Funky Four Plus One's 1979-81 style. Gary Byrd in the early 70s - absolutely rapping with that early 70s hip jazz/soul style. Jacko Henderson in the 50s, The Jubilees 1940s, Pig Meat Markam in the 60s.. Mind PowerJames Brown 1973, Last Poets 1971, Frankie Jaxson 1929 Jive Man Blues (absolutely rapping), Beale St Sheiks, It's a Good Thing 1927, Memphis Jug Band, with Whitewash Station Blues 1920s I would even say songs like Don't Burn Your Candles at Both Ends by Loius Jordan , 1940s…in the movie Look Out Sister 1946, but more like rapp on the record version. Or his 40s song Beware. Even more so like rapp than singing was his song Look Out (also in the 1940s independent AA movie). The Last Poets (latter 60s - very early 70s) with songs like Run, MEAN MACHINE - 1971 (MUST LISTEN TO THAT ONE IF YOU NEVER HEARD), True Blues, On the Subway (1970), New York New York, and others, were rapping back then with poetry and African sounding drum. Keep in mind that rapp means to talk, not neccesarily rhyming, (they often did). Coke does make the connection to The Last Poets, as influence and others like that (in the video "Coke la Rock a DJ, With Herc".. by The Culture, Started in 71, at 35:28 in vid). Same with, DJ Hollywood (1971-) Herc credits Coke for rapp in the vid "Kool Herc on the Role Coke (MC) Played". In the 1930s soundie (musical short/music video) called Caravan, The Mills Brothers are rapping in the scene where he's talking to the young lady. Not long after that, the young man starts basically uprocking into breakdance swipes. Jacko Henderson is in the 1981 20/20 ABC news special, covering this new thing called…HIPHOP. Jacko is very familiar with this sound as he snaps his fingers remembering a few 1950s verses. In 1983, Gary Byrd appeared on the British show Black on Black by LWT Studios (London tv). He was asked when did he start rapping. Byrd tells the host that in 1965 he came across some tapes of Jacko Henderson from the 1950s, doing this style of announcements on radio (also done by other African American DJs across America). Byrd's songs from 1970 - 73 include Soul Traveling (very much like rapping) , If the People Only Knew, Are You Ready for Black Power… In the latter 60s into the 70s Frankie Crocker of NYC radio was known to rhyme talk in a manor that sounds like a predecessor to hiphop music. He might say HEY BABY, IT'S GUARANTEE TO PUT A CUT IN YOUR STRUT, A GLIDE IN YOUR STRIDE, A DIP IN YOUR HIP…IF YOU AIN'T DIGGING THIS, YOU MUST HAVE A WHOLE IN YO SOUL. He also appeared in 70s movies like Five on the Black Hand Side and Darktown Strutters. In a 1973 movie called Five on the Black Hand Side, the Kool guy who walks into the barbershop immediately puts a coin in the jukebox, and starts doing what they once called jive talking. Sounds so much like rap, the Sugar Hill Gang used one of the verses. Both Ali and H. Rapp Brown (coincidently) spoke in this manner in the 60s and very early 70s (warning if looking up Brown's 60s speeches…they may contain a few epithets. Sensitive political and social times). Also in Five on the Black Hand Side, the Black Panther like character that walks into the barbershop asking permission to put up a flyer for the freedom of one of his brethren, then reminds them that the police are becoming more fascist. After that, he sort of raps when he says…WOE TO THOSE WHO CAN'T SWIM JIM. Then he walks out in a rhythmic like manner. Frankie Crocker does a little poetry as he remembers everyone street number (street lottery) in one of the barbershop scenes KRS-1 references Coke in a 80s rap. His partner was Scott LA Rock, and they followed the trend from early 70s Coke La Rock. We also have ShaLa Rock…female rapper from the latter 70s - early 80s, and others… Rapper and 70s breakdancer T La Rock (African American…Known for the 1984 rap song It's Yours) Even a 1978 Puerto Rican based breakdance crew named Starchild La Rock. 5 Batch, a Puerto Rican guy who created TBB (The Bronx Boys) as a youth in circa 1975-76. They were a breaking crew. He tells Colon on a Livestream (no time to edit out😂)….YOU CAN SEE ON MY SCREEN IM PROUD OF MY RICAN HERITAGE WITH THE FLAG ON THE WALL, BUT THIS HIPHOP COMES FROM THE BROTHAs… Deer in the headlights look From a firsthand perspective, Batch says on another modern Ytb vid that he was inspired by the ZuluKings or Spades, before TBB. Also Willie Will of Rockwell A., said he seen ZuluKing go to floor 1st 6 Everyone that came up in the Bronxdale projects during that time of the 60s and early 70s seem to remember DJ King Mario (Afn Am).. concurrent with Herc. In fact, a few said they knew each other, but Mario like to do outdoor block party/festival style, while Herc was more indoor venues. 7 One of the first Hispanic hip hop DJs said he seen all black people back then and sometimes wondered if he would be rejected based on his ethnic background. He found a warm welcome, because it was based on how good you were and not race. HE WAS GOOD. (in other words, even a African American youth would be booed off the stage and told to go back to his borough in a NYC accent, if they weren't good). continued in replies ...
cont... You always had R&B music artist incorporate a little Latin sound like Reasons by Earth Wind & Fire 1975…with a Cuban style, or Running on the 1977 All N All album. Also Herman Kelly with the 1978 song dance to the drummer beat. Tito Puente of Puerto Rican background was a musician who played on certain SugarHill rap records. Carlos Mendez not only cofounded the Cold Crush Brothers circa 1977, but also established the first know hiphop gathering or convention, circa 1979-80. At least 2 members of the Fearless 4 were of Puerto Rican background in the latter 70s- early 80s. Also a lesser known Mean Machine 1980. DJ Hollywood, African American, was known as early as 71 with his call and response style (rap). He says influencers were Frankie Crocker, Oscar Brown, Rudy Moore Pig Meat Markum, Last Poets (same as Coke La Rock)...(interview on KEXP). People that remember him first-hand are Coke La Rock, Kurtis Blow, Cholly Rock and others. More in next reply on hiphop's predecessor and the known pioneers including Herc, that remember names like John Brown, DJ Pete Jones, Grand Master Flowers ( Brooklyn 1960s - 70s)... Better known by his stage name Pumpkin, 70s-80s HipHop drummer Errol Eduardo Bedward played on many songs of the genre. His overall appearance was of a typical African American, but was of Costa Rican and Panamanian background. He spoke fluent Spanish. Artist he played for include…(1979 to 1984), Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five Spoonie Gee, Treacherous Three, Funky Four, Grandmaster Caz, the Fearless Four, and Dr. Jeckyll & Mr. Hyde.... His 1983 single "King of the Beat", Pumpkin and the Profile All-Stars' "Here Comes the Beat" (Profile, 1984). Jimmy Castor was African American. He was very familiar with the Latin and Caribbean sound…though rooted in soul and funk. His family was from Bermuda, as he tells us in a 2006 interview on a old website called Turntable Treat, by Sean from NJ (?…now obsolete but interview saved). Also was part of Tito Puente's band in NYC clubs. Speaking of hiphop, we know him for the 1972 song "It's Just Begun", form the Flashdance breaking scene, and used by many b-boys… Puerto Ricans bros like Ken Swift, Crazy Legs, Mr Wiggles, Jo Jo, and even Trac 2 (when he was younger and humble😄), said they saw mostly African American youth breaking before like 75-77. Trac is in a 1978 photo with Spy (black or Afro Puerto Rican). Also Rene and Boss same year. They just won a breaking competition. Crazy legs said Spy was the first person he ever seen do this dance as a 9 year old in 76. Spy was in his early teens. In rare photos from an original RSC (Rock Steady Crew) website, Legs is in 1979-81 photos with forgotten African American members like Ski, Kippy D, Lil Craze, and their 1977 cofounder Jimmy Dee (with PuertoRican friend Lee). I say this so you can see the dance was both African American and Puerto Rican at the same time. You kind of sense that in the old photos (many youth added moves to it that became popular). Jo Jo stated that before the mid 70s it was mostly African Americans breaking and rare to see Puerto Rican youth. He mentioned from a first hand perspective, the ZuluKings in the vid…." JoJo: (Crazy Commanders/RSC) - "Rican bboys were so rare, Blacks looked at us like little…." Jo Jo (PR) and Kevski (AA) are in a modern livestream. They were in the same mid 70s Bronx b-boy crew. On a modern Livestream, Fast Breaks, African American of original Magnificent Force, says he started breaking in 1975 after seeing his cousin do "drops" at a party. He says his cousin would hang around ZuluKing members. There's a excellent performance on Livewire 1983. Magnificent Force from Bronx, NY, predate the 83 national youth craze. Spy claims he started doing floor moves as his own creation, but does mention he came up around Black Spades (ZuluKings) in South Bronx before moving to other part of NYC as a 70s youth. Actually stating Bronx River Projects is where he started (come on, you know where he got it from). This is a problem in the testimonials of how the dance started. The tribal mentality (on both sides of the "debate") . Most center themselves in the overall story - further distorting the history. When trying to credit Puerto Ricans for the breaking, people will mention the dances of Roberto Roena 1974 (black or Afro Puerto Rican)…Tito Rodriguez at the Palladium 1950s, or the Latin dancers on Ed Sullivan, 1957. In the 74 Roberto Roena footage with Celia Cruz and All-Stars, he's doing the exact moves of Little Buck (Conrad Buckner), an African American) from two decades prior. Also in the same sequence….EVEN THE HELICOPTER LEG AND KNEE WALK. The walk around on one hand is S. Davis Jr (BoogieWoogie) and others 1940. When mentioned, it's still downplayed to make it seem absolutely Puerto Rican in origin, and the African American predecessor isn't taken serious. The moves stem from African American Jazz dances of the 1920s - 50s. A decade prior to even Little Buck, we have the Berry Brothers (spinning with acrobatics 1940s) Mills Brothers 1930s Caravan soundie (both rapping and strait up rocking into swipes), or Little Step Brothers 60s See "Ancestral roots of the Bboy Pt 1 (1920s-1940s clips)"…A MUST SEE. If we were to accept Spy's claim of being the first, what do we do about the dilemma in all the other claims and even a modern gathering of original 1st generation "B-boys" like Sasa, Trixie Dancing Doug.... Did they gather under false pretenses with fake memory of being the first (video - Original Bboy Reunion) In a 2013 gathering celebrating hiphop, Crazy Legs introduced their 1977 African American cofounder, Jimmy Dee, to the crowd. Many never seen him because being a couple of years older (upper teens), he went off to college by time the 80s came around. In a modern Ytb livesteam interview, he says in like 78 this 12 year old, exuberant about the dance dormant in Bronx and Harlem at the time, asked him if they can start a new chapter of RSC before moving to Manhattan. We know this enthusiastic dancer as Crazy Legs In the 1974 movie "Education of Sonny Carson", coincidently about a African American gang in New York City, the one teen that likes to dance is up-rocking into James Brown like splits (Staten Island boat scene and parade scene). It reminds me when Ken Swift describes old style breaking (before 1976/77) as looking more like FrostyFreeze style ( African American teen in Flashdance who jumps on his back. Movie was filmed in 1981 and released in 83) In the outtakes of StyleWars, filmed in 81 and released in 83, Kippy D of old Rock Steady Crew informs us that they just incorporated Poplocking from the West coast. This componant lumped into breakin was absolutely African American. A derivative of 1969 locking, created by Don Campbell (AfricanAmerican), POPPIN was introrduced to L.A. youth by Boogaloo Sam and his brother Poppin Pete (African American) of Fresno, CA, circa 1976. So it's like it came full circle back to L.A - stemming from lockin, Popping from the roboting element..with a little pantomiming). Debuted on SoulTrain in 1978 by Jeff Danials and his crew, it soon became a popular. On 1977 Gong Show, you can see the morph from rorbiting to popping with Robitoid INC. Also, Black Resurgence, 1976. The 1978 movie Young Blood, set in L.A. California, we see the helicopter leg in the teen club scene. There was already a minute element in locking that look like breaking with leg kicks and turning around on floor. Often done by the eccentric regular of mid 70s SoulTrain...the young guy with the giant toothbrush and sometimes boxing gloves. Think his moniker was Mr X. Episodes with X absolutely breakdancing included... 1 The Undiputable Truth -You and Me, 1976 2 I Don't Want to Loose Your Love by Emotions (ST line dance), 3 The Sylvers - Hotline (SoulTrain dancers 1976), 4 Get Up and Boogie by Silver Connection (dancing episode, not in the line or band in person). Another interesting detail in StyleWars (filmed in 81…important to emphasize that here), Frosty Freeze tells the interviewer that the dance started in Bronx as well as parts of Harlem. Brooklyn Rock dance is not the base of up rock commonly used in breaking. You have a Puerto Rican Rock dancer of 70s saying he seen breaking in the Bronx circa 1975 and it looked nothing like what they did. It appears that rocking was feet shuffling while uprocking was more jumping and arm swinging movements. Even Brooklyn Rock Dance, with it's mysterious origin, shows more affinity to African American style than Latino (See last comment for interview with Frank papo" Rojas...latter 60 -70s PuertoRican Brooklyn Rock Dancer) In the 1950s African American teens created their own form of Mambo. (Look up Brooklyn Mambo, 1950s). It's very close to RockDance. Even in some of the footage Spirit Moves between the 1920s -50s, similarities show up here and there. So far we can't find videos of Latin dance in this manner concurrent to that 50s era. Uprockin for breakin comes from Spade Dance (Black Spades, 60s - early 70s Bronx gang). Just like C-walking (Crip Walk 1970s), people just forgot over time the African American street culture these styles are based on. In the history of Melbourne Shuffle, no one seems to mention or allude to the fact they're C-Walking with a little 80s New Jack Swing…sped up. This is the same scenario in not recognizing Uprock being originally Spade Dance. In a 1990, hiphop doc, PeeWee Dance, an original ZuluKing member, hangs with RSC as he demonstrates the raw essence of what they did in the early 70s. He is SpadeDancing/Uprockin/BronxBurning/Going Off (video is on Ytb…YOU GET THE SENCE OF WHY THEY CALLED IT GOING OFF) Graffiti art was born in 60s NYC and included many races of people. Black, Hispanic, Italian, and even firsthand accounts of Asian. There's no definitive evidence that it came from Philly of the 60s God bless (see Biblical Salvation
Up Rock did not come from Brooklyn Rock Dance. It was Spade dance ( black spades), Bronx Burning - as Kurtis Blow tells us in 1984 on Detroit's The Scene show... long before this modern debate.. From Frank Rojas, Puerto Rican Brooklyn Rock Dancer from the 60s and 70s. This is the pioneer who said he seen breaking as a young guy in 1975 Bronx, and he and his friends didn't see it as what they did in Brooklyn...or even perceive it as dancing . Note From 3:20 -3:58, we hear him clearly distinguish the dances he did culturally as a Puerto Rican at home, vs what the African Americans were doing down the block. He gravitated the dances of the brothers more as a starting point in Brooklyn Rock Dancing vs his traditional dance innate in him. (the main point are capitalized and allude to the African American origins of even the Brooklyn Rock Dance) From a transcript of video interview "...it was it was a uh the beauty of it was that it was a black and puerto rican community 2:31 you know so you had you know on my block I lived in the middle and on my left was you know mostly 2:38 Puerto Rican and on my right on the same block right was the black community 2:44 so I had you know I had the distinct pleasure um and pretty much the honor to be 2:49 brought up you know with both cultures which influenced me as a person right.... 2:56 ...not just me as a dancer because you know that's where it all started um right on that neighborhood and even prior to that i come from a family you know who you know the dance Salsa you know Merengue you 3:15 know it was a party in my house every every weekend so i grew up you know 3:20 with with that flavor... ...more Salsa Right Merengue And You KNOW CHA CHA, AND I DUG IT , IT'S IN MY DNA 3:39 I DID IT BUT I LIKED WHAT THE BROTHERS WERE DOING DOWN THE BLOCK A LOT MORE YEAH AND SO LIKE COMING OUT OF YOUR 3:47 (interviewer) House And Just Existing In Your NEIGHBORHOOD WHAT DID YOU SEE FROM THOSE BROTHERS DOWN THE BLOCK 3:52 THAT RIGHT THAT ATTRACTED ME, IT WAS WAS THE GROOVE RIGHT so you know we're talking about 3:58 you know 67 68 69 right so you know you you at that time you you 4:05 there was always a new dance like when a song came out there was a dance that went to the song 4:11 okay so like as far back as i could remember so even even in in my house right though... 4:18 ....it was it was it was salsa but the uh the hispanic community came up 4:24 with an english version of salsa which they call the latin boogaloo so that's the first like american way of 4:32 dancing for me right so the latin boogaloo the first dance i learned was called the African 4:38 twist right so and that that was a song by Eddie Palmetti 4:43 all right so then after that you know i mean i was a good dancer i could move so everywhere i went they you know 4:50 come on pop get down right so my nickname is papa that's what they call me on the street 4:55 um so i remember the first dance I learned was the tighten up 5:01 Archie Bell in the Drells right there was the tighten up I remember the mother popcorn all right 5:08 the mother popcorn James Brown there was a dance called the mother popcorn that's where all my groove came 5:14 from and who was making these dances up were they just being created they were fun for me yeah yeah from the community..." SKIPPING OVER TO THE FOLLOWING. PAY ATTENTION TO THIS PORTION 21:49 had competitions right like once a weekend sometimes twice a weekend because again 21:55 this was so let me just go back a little bit right so [Music] you know when i was doing those dances 22:03 to those songs right the [Music] the it was the black community that to those songs right the [Music] the it was the black community that 22:09 pretty much was the power of dance right but then you had the puerto ricans who 22:15 came in did what the black community did because we loved it you know we did the groove just as good we had the soul we had soul 22:21 right yeah so but we also had that salsa 22:27 all of that so we put that together and we became the power the power shifted and it was 22:34 the puerto rican community and in those clubs the fresh the kontiki the footsteps 22:40 and there was clubs before that right so there was the forbidden fruit right there was the ruby fool there was 22:46 the pegasus With that said, go look up vids like Brooklyn Mambo 1957 (African American form), or Spirit moves 1920s - 50s. Look to see if you can find any Latin dance concurrent to that time in this same manor...
It was a timeline that cause a uplift with our culture that brought a certain attitude and behavior that was savage because one had to act accordingly to its timeline , not meaning for it to go anywhere, because who knew hip hop would even come into existence.
Hip hop did not start in one specific area of NYC! You had 3-4 sections of the Bronx where hip hop style parties were held. Some areas were impoverished. Other areas were middle class. You also had people like Grand Master Flowers in Brooklyn who also did hip hop style parties. All of this happened at the same time. There was no mess where one area had it during this time period and passed it to the other during another era. It was all at once. Just like current day where you have parties in every area of the city at any given time. Y’all need to stop this fighting from within crap. Claiming one person is a liar and another is so true. I say all parties are telling some form of truth. At the same time these events happened 40 plus years ago! None of them will recall every single memory clearly. Most of these guys are up in age. Withallduerespect! Simply saying their memory of these events may not be as clear as they believe! Lastly, stop trying to cut people out of the creation of hip hop! Hip hop was born based upon a reflection of how the city moved at that time. Many races, cultures, and groups took part in the start of hip hop! It did not exclude people because it was viewed as us treating people how we were treated. Our treatment by others was one of the main root causes of the formation of hip hop! To give ourselves something to express our feelings about being excluded by the masses! In the end what you all are doing literally goes against hip hop! Please stop it! Y’all should focus on helping hip hop grow much more without hatred/exclusion! You’re only teaching the youth to continue this same bickering over silly what, who, why, and when. This is exactly why the current rappers are dropping like flies! Look at the example you all are leaving! Smh🙄😒
Philly too. The thing is Philly started grafitti too in the 60s, and the 70s house parties morphed into deejay rocking crowds everywhere. Hip Hop started where these elements were found and most needed by masses for creativity outlets
The conversation had be had a long time because the narrative was not truthfully and the one who were really involved from the start, they were supposed to be erased so the truth would not be told...what is done in the dark will come to light!.
I'm going to be honest I'm 56 years old KRS-One and this guy are wrong the attitude especially the criminal behavior is not Hip Hop this dude doing most of the talking with the very loud voice I hate guys like him I couldn't take it when I was young the loud ones were very insecure and lacking a lot of things and truth be told only bringing the Ruckus when they were with a crew or if they had a weapon. Just him talking the way he's talking is annoying because he's too old to tell these stories in that manner just speak get your point across
Well I hope it changes .How their big names are in court backstabbing eachother with terrible accusations ...i want change . This hip hop attitude thing is being played out in the media . This disrespect of Jamaicans , Porto Ricans , Latinos , Africans . The lies about Coxsone the lies about Herc , Cholly Rock , the gr8 Ced Gee . At least reggae has culture reggae born from Soundsystem . Hip hop needs to respect soundsystem , respect the breaks , respect the elements which the pioneer Kool Herc unified . They need to ....bring it back ! ...Lord Jamar needs quiet down . FBA quit trash talking & being selective you in our fam but you dont count . if they need some heavyweight live beats just hire me . ill bring it right back to the roughness . Peace .
@@Coolpikkle Yeah, you mad... our people don't walk around sad about their conditions or deeds... that would mean defeat. We keep pushing no matter what.
The black spades started hip hop as the name. But black africans been rapping since jazz, & even before because african languages are rhyming. Also Africans created all languages on earth! Fact.
Africans didn't create anything at all. It was the American Indians that was reclassified from their nationality to become colored in 1924 then negro, black in the late 60s and African in 1988.
Africans did not create everything that BA has done in America. If so, why everything that BA created was not created in Africa: Jazz, Bebop, Miltary Cadence, and the list goes on. Everyone / outsiders from BA and every place trying their hardest to take away from BA /BA Culture when BA put in all the work. *Upmost respect to the BA Black spades in NY where it all began!
Hip hop comes for pure poverty. The bronx was then very poor, and is still the poorest of the five boroughs. No disrespect to any of these legends and pioneers.
Original hip hop wasn't about gang Bangin drugs or gangster we rap about the struggle knowledge wisdom and uplift our people show this new rap is not hip hop is garbage
Hip hop started on the west! Prove me wrong ?? Punk ass lots Jamar was scared to debate me in the subject because he knew he would lose , I lost all respect for lame Jamar !
@ is rap all that hip hop is ? Break dancing started before rap in the form of the dance “The Lock “ and the lock is a westcoast dance started by don campbellock , this dance set in motion the essence of hip hop , counter culture dance , style of dress and most important Sneakers became the fashion statement , nothing aligns with hip hop more than sneakers ! Hip hop started on the west! An absolute fact . Punk ass lame Jamar is just a vlad flunky , an internet prostitution for clicks !
@ what is a black American , people aren’t crayon colors , autochthonous, indigenous , melanated Americans , black is a construct , like African American , or colored or freedman of color , negro , Indian ,Al names created by United States which didn’t get started until almost the 1800’s , mf’s still talking 400 years of slavery bullshit , clearly they can’t count
Imo mfs should be putting together a fund for all these guys instead of getting into the same circular arguments over and over... Why the fuck is Herc struggling to pay his medical bills? That man should be living like a king.
They don’t want solutions because that comes with the truth !! Love you brothers for tellin the story the way it suppose to be
Everybody scattered like roaches when the true Pioneers told the true Hip Hop beginnings!
Facts
As it should be
Where they all at? Now they act like they don't know how to use the Internet 🤣😭🤣😭🤣 Oh now they don't see nothing hahahahahaha!!!!!!
Whole Facts Black Americans Started Everything stop trying to steal our Culture.🏹🏹🏹🪶🪓⚕️⚖️🔮🎩🗿👁️🫅🏾✌🏽
Who invented it more ngga shit .. who owns it .. while yall bicker over who created it .. the black mind is why you don’t own it .. WHO CONTROLS IT
Watching KRS and Coke-La-Rock contradict each other was Crazy...
Black ppl everywhere were into Karate flicks in the early 70s
Chanel 5 Saturday at 3pm. Then we started getting nun chucks and Chinese stars.
Bruce Lee was as big as any black movie star. We worshipped Bruce
Yep, facts , from the UK
Yep. I’m from Chicago. And everybody on my block was into Martial Arts. Lupe’s fiasco family lived across the street and his father was our sensei and taught all of us youngsters martial arts at his dojo. And he gave us authentic weapons to practice with. I was eight years old with real nunchucks and Chinese stars. All of the cats on my Block, who were gangbanging all knew martial arts and I used to wear them karate shoes. This was late 70s early 80s.
Not in the south because there wasn't allowed to see certain things a listing to certain music in the south they wasn't even allowed to have Gangs because remember that's a red state if there was any Asian movies or any black Hip Hop it wasn't in the south in the 50s 60s 70s Later on then it came in the south
Hip hop started in poverty with the black spades gang. 100% Fact.
Who did they stop fighting & started battling with ; B boying or break dancing with"?"
Each other
@@robertalexander2478 🤣😂🤣 was the Bronx was Segregated with gates at its borders & only allowing so called "black" people in with ID cards on their chest making sure it wasn't a PR or Dominican "colored" person by mistake "?" 💀💀💀
@@robertalexander2478 exactly each other. And even the Puerto Ricans that was around DIDN'T EVEN SPEAK IT AROUND THEM. And they dressed like Black boys. They really need to stop this "OOOOH IT WAS TOGETHER" sht cause no it wasn't.
@ shameful isn’t it!!!
I lost some respect for KRS One, to not even mention Mario is CRIMINAL!!!!!
Word me too
Agreed
He just didn't know. I don't think he intentionally wanted to credit Herc as anything. I believe it's all HE KNEW... And no one challenged what he was saying.
@Jokah227jish the problem is when krs is given the correct information he still pushes the lie.
@@WarriorsCherub999 now THAT SHIT IS FOUL. As smart as he claims to be, I know he can find the words to recant what he said. That's Crazy
Young BlackJack is my absolute favorite hip-hop pioneer. He's the most honest and provides great insight into the early days. Smart guy!
I wish John Brown can finally tell his story. If he ever does, many will be able to piece together where and how this culture spread throughout the Bronx. Fat Mike took his own time, went to the Tunnel, in a wheelchair, n basically told us where this culture was starting to formulate. Smokey said it. Phase 2 said it. John Brown, who knew Mario since they were real young, has some interesting info to share.
I agree. I was hoping that he would do a documentary on his history as a DJ and his time at the Plaza Tunnel. In actuality, when all the written/oral history is put in context, the big 3 DJs are, DJ Mario (cultural movement) DJ John Brown (Bboy music/ anthems) and DJ/MC Coke LaRock (evolution by adding poetry)
In my opinion, it seems their history is being manipulated and erased intentionally due to ethnic bigotry and greed.
I'm still waiting on that to drop!!!!🥺
Peace to the God, Lord Jamar. Let's get to a solution, have a cipher and build, in order to move beyond all the back and forth. (✌🏿)(✊🏿)
The back & forth happens when you are dispelling lies. We are cleaning up the lies one section at a time.
BA always create where ever they go from their own culture! For example, a military soldier named PVT Willie Lee Duckworth Sr. from Sandersville, Georgia was stationed at Fort Slocum, New York in 1944. He is credited by the United States Army for creating the very first military cadence ever during the time when the military was segregated. He introduced it to his fellow BA soldiers while marching. The white soldiers were amazed at the cadence at the time and then implemented cadence into the Army. Cadences are used in the military everywhere even to this day.
See the pattern....just like hip hop and everything else....BA always creates throughout their lived experiences but the NON-BA copies and follows the BA/BA creations.
💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
That's interesting asf... I'm not that surprised that a brother created that. We have much soul and flair.
Thank you I'm going to blow that every chance I get and like they say real history don't lie only fake people do. ie Colon 🤣🤣🤣🤣
That's my Webster PAL flyer... Riff170 piece. January 21, 1978 jam. Herc and Smokey battled at Webster. To be fair, Smokey used to be the main DJ there on the 9s.. The apartment parties at his place on Grant Ave were legendary.
On my life, I believe the genesis of it all was at the Tunnel... the Spades, Monk, Kool Dee, Mario, Herc, Coke, Smokey.. Phase2, Wallace Dee, Bosco Rock, and the FIRST first generation bboys.. they all partied there listening to John Brown.
John Brown wasn't the first DJ.. but he was the first to play what he played in that atmosphere. That atmosphere created by the Spades and burning and dancing and the culture of the era. It all came together at the Tunnel and Smokey, Herc, and Mario all brought it back to their hood. That's why they're all claiming to be first. They took that spark from the tunnel and lit the fire in their areas.
Been telling people for 2 years now. U also factor in, Robert Hevelow was a bartender at the Tunnel. When it closed in May of 73, and not too long after he took John Brown as his first DJ at the new club he opened...The Hevelo! By 75, JB, went away to college to play ball. Herc filled the void. The rest is history!
@dreval7957 Yessir.. and Smokey also played at the Hevelow.. both Herc and Smokey also played at the Parkside Plaza in Mt. Eden which was also owned by Bob.
Like you said... JB went off to college to play ball, Smokey went to the military... Herc was left. And it's not that Herc doesn't deserve his props but there were other players in this (Smokey and Mario) that were his contemporaries... And John Brown, of course, who was the lightening rod through which it all funneled.
@jd-pt1xx , Facts...Believe me I know. Been to early Mario, Bam, Flash, n Herc parties...plus John Brown n I speak periodically. He and his partner definitely kicked the culture off at the Tunnel! Respect!
If we had let these dudes be on frontline Hiphop would have never left the block
And look what happened when it left. It got hijacked and sold out and weaponized against us
"Attitude when I'm on fire! Juice on the loose, electric wire!" - Chuck D "Rebel Without A Pause"
That's US/FBA all day!
✊🏿
There is no question regarding Krs-One's fervent dedication.
What is the value of an individual who bears the torch if they are largely misguided in the narratives they articulate about its historical background?
Perfectly put precisely!!!!
Salah 🥈gyz.
How is they "misguided" if he knows his narratives are not truthful ... its called lies
@@J-nd9ub "Liar Liar pants on fire. KRS ONE is up in age and needs to retire!"
@@UFOsAreRealArea51 Barrrrrrrrrs. KRS ZERO IS A FRAUD
I remember seeing things about KRS temple of hip hop organization years ago. It comes off like a religious cult to me. I remember seeing the way a couple members would talk about him as well and it came off cult like too. The way they call him "Techa" instead of just his name, all the admiration and putting him above themselves etc.
I agree. He can spew whatever he wants, as long as he taps is temple. And then everyone is all "Oh shit.... FACTS".
KRS-One hast to apologize again because he apologized a few years ago already For a different missed quote on hip-hop, now he hast to do it again but really cool Herc should be the one that’s apologizing cause he put the battery in the back of all the people that Lord Jamar named to jump out the window like they did Saying hip-hop started from reggae music.
Salah 🥈gyz.
The Greatest Emcee In Hip-Hop don't have to and never has apologize for shit!
That’s your perspective he is one of the greatest, definitely not the greatest.
Reggae and no other type of worst Indian Music or culture had anything to do with the beginning formulation origins of this hip-hop music, & thats a fendi fact on top of facts, Herc put the battery in all their backs, he’s the one that should be apologizing, KRS & them just ran with the faults narratives of “without reggae there will be no such thing is hip-hop”.
Salah 🥈gyz.
These reggae backs need to drink some warm milk and take a nap.
Salah 🥈gyz.
And like I said before KRS apologized one time already and I’m sure the reason why he’s not replying to anything is because he doesn’t want to seem the fool apologizing twice. So all that he doesn’t need to apologize for anything greatest MC stuff is out the window. The man apologized one time already and doesn’t want to apologize again which is understandable since he’s “the teacher”., that’s not a good look!
Salah 🥈gyz.
I'd rather listen to Rakim than KRS ONE. Rakim got me going back in the days, not KRS ONE. @@salahuddinjames5797
My pops is italian from Bensonhurst. I grew up in the east bay area. This is my favorite place to learn about hip hop. Respect
Just discovered this channel from 650 area
@linesoverlines shout out 650!
I'm 52 from The Bronx and I don't remember sedgwick Ave being middle class. The whole Bronx was poor and the South Bronx was the poorest of The Bronx. The only section of The Bronx where there is money is a section called Riverdale. Other than that, I never seen middle class in The Bronx. Some do a lil better or a lil worse than others, but for the most part it was low income all over. And still is.
@trevorcunningham8687.... not true.. there are are few places in The Bronx that was "middle class" middle income back then... all around throggs neck, Pelham bay... etc.. and if you have armed security guards in your lobby with carpet vending machines and pay phones in your lobby with air conditioners!!...BACK IN 1973!! that's definitely "middle class environment...(which is a good thing )... put your mind back in 1973!! many of us was hot in the summertime with fans!!
@TheCulture..Starts1971 I'm from Tracey Towers and many people thought you couldn't be on welfare and live there and that wasn't true. And we had several doormen, security, cleaners, milk, juice, soda and cigarette machine plus a pay phones. I just believe that middle class is a myth. It's just the haves and have nots. And where I lived I saw more have nots than I did haves. And I moved into the Towers in Oct 73 at 2yrs old. Plus I went to JHS 143 wit kids from sedgwick and they didn't seem to have any more or less than any other poor kids that went there. I just never could wrap my head around the term middle class. A lost job can take you right outta that, so how middle is it. If a guy in Riverdale loses his job he probably won't have to move. That was never the case on sedgwick or anywhere else in The Bronx except for Riverdale.
@trevorcunningham8687... This video says middle class ENVIRONMENT!! Key word is " ENVIRONMENT"...there is upper middle class lower middle class .. the working poor...etc...""Middle class income" IS NOT RICH... Sounds like you confusing "middle class" with RICH...middle class income means your yearly salary is over a certain amount...Middle class DOESN'T mean you don't have to work on your job anymore!! middle income STILL HAVE TO WORK or you will go broke soon... there's a few videos that explain the income range of middle class... AND YES your right..there has been a great decline of the middle class nationwide...so what you saying may be somewhat true... if you go to Sedgwick nowadays its probably different from 1973... but again... context is everything... we talking about 1973 ENVIRONMENT!! apartments built for air conditioners for almost every room, armed guards in the lobby, carpet, vending machines balcony/terrace and your own laundromat in the building back in 1973 is definitely middle class environment and was considered luxury to a lot of us who was economically "poor".. that was like the Jeffersons to us...
How can you be 52 and know what was what in 1971-1973, with your own conscious?
@@JUBABU4 I'm just speaking on what I remember seeing as a kid. Being born in 71 of course I have no memory of things taken place in 71. But I do remember things from the 70's.
It was in 1979 that certains ethnicities started partying together.
Young black jack needs his own show. Genuine Dude.
Let me sum all this up for y’all! The Dj, The Rapper, The Breakdancer, and The Graffiti Painter make up Hip Hop Elements! Don’t forget about Grandmaster Flowers!
You forgot the 5th element, knowledge. Never forget that one!
@ I can dig it. I didn’t grow up in NYC but I sure as hell grew up Hip Hop lol. Started djing in 1978. Oh wait there was no such thing as hip hop then though lol.
@@DjSmoothNY Yes hop hop is 51 years old my friend. Started in '73! Us old heads can get the events of years mixed up, we have the privilege to do so!
@ I salute you brother. You started a few yrs before me so did I miss anything? U know the movie The Get Down is so educational and entertaining and I think that every young person should watch that in schools. Instead of reading a Trump Bible! lol. We have so much culture and history in that 5 decades.
@@ngairehodge8566you can also say fashion was an element as well.
Grandmaster Flowers was a Dee-Jay doing graffiti in mid to late 60's in Brooklyn where many were scared to go out there. I had cousins in the Bronx so we went back and forth. In the Bronx DJ Mario was before Herc, Bam, & Flash. DJ Smokey was also.
Thank you Lil Black Jack. I haven’t posted in a while because some of my comments received backlash.
In another video about a year ago. I said we were dancing and playing break beat before Mario was playing in the park in 71. It was in 68 or 69, I also said some of our moves we copied from Sammy Davis Junior. Who was from Monroe housing projects I believe. In many people who weren’t there talk so much shit on that comment.
I also said in other videos that kool Herc never played in Cedar Park. And I believe you had a video don’t know the date of it Coke La Rock said it out of his own mouth that they never played at Cedar Park.
Again, thank you for these videos
Sammy Davis Jr was Puerto Rican and Jewish. Did you know this?
@ Sammy Davis’s mother was Afro Cuban. Sammy Davis lied about his mother and said she was Puerto Rican because of the situation between America and Cuba politically in that time period. And I was afraid of it hurt his chances of getting movie deals, and record deals in Hollywood.
@ unbelievable how much you hate on Boricua talent. It’s like arguing with the wall..I can’t win. 🤣did a Boricua humiliate or rob you when you was little??
@Titoduran357 im just wondering when black people tell you the truth of a situation under jim crow. Do you just discount it because you have a latino narrative?
@Titoduran357 Sammy Davis Jr dad was BLACK and his mom was PR
Jew is not a race it's a religion
What are you trying to say??
News had a part in creating hop hop???
Gtfoh
What does his racial make up have to do with anything especially when it's a fact that he loved his life as a Black man
I have a question why don’t you guys make a documentary to set the record straight kinda like how Tariq Nasheed made his documentary on the origins of hip hop and then put it out on Blu ray and have a film release that would be awesome 🎉
He's referring to Sammy Davis Jr and The Nicholas Brothers...ANYTHING related to black people that came across the TV screens we were all over it. When my Dad took me to the movies to see Enter the Dragon, we emulated that too...sometimes better than dudes whose parents paid for lessons.🃏²³°
Scott La Rock, who was FBA, was the founder of Boogie Down Production, like Brown of Leaders of The News School. His unfortunate demise in 87' left KRS-One in charge of the BDP movement. But make no mistake, without the curation of these FBA men creating these platforms there would be no Busta Rhymes or KRS-One, at least not in the current posture that we know them. Busta claims he was kicked out the group but that's false, he abandoned the group during their most crititical period when they were on the rise bc he was naturally disloyal & always wanted to be solo. Like many non lineage individuals he defected & piggy backed off A-Tribe-called Quest & later J-Dilla to get on. Now he's insulting the very ones who birthed his career, as is KRS. Sad!!! 🤦🏿♂️
💯🎯
I always wanted to hear what really happened with Leaders of the New School. Busta dipped on them for real.
Scott LA Rock was son Jamacian mother.
@@ralft No he was not his mother & father were both 100% FBA. I know this for a fact she was a government employee in the 60's in Queens. Go try that bullsh*t with somebody else I'm not new to this by far!!! I remember when SLR got killed all over D-Nice fkn with some other dudes broad. U better know what u talkin bout b4 u address me with BS 🤨
@@ralft No he was not his mother & father were both 100% FBA. I know this for a fact she was a government employee in the 60's in Queens. Go try that BS with somebody else I'm not new to this by far!!! I remember when SLR got killed on accnt of D-Nice slid'n some other dudes broad. He got his name after fellow Bronx rapper T la Rock although they was from different crews. Better know what u talk'n bout b4 u address me 😑
great work once again
hiphop was either created by black americans or it wasn't right? i get it! jamar is right! this isn't that complicated. its just another epidemic of the internet. i mean we can break this down in so many ways.
Great Video brother!
🎯
Hip-hop started before the fires & abandoned buildings, people had working family members in their apartments🤨💥💥💥🔨
KRS DONE LOST HIS MARBLES WITH ALL THAT BU!!$#!+
And all the 1st generation BBOYS join the cipher straight like that
Herc is cool as long as you are allowing him to co-opt your culture and cultural music.
This dude Herc has remained quiet while Jamaicans lie and claim FBA cultural music.
He's recently came out and reiterated he was the father of hiphop in an interview alongside his sister. He is a cultureless quack, no need to try to clean up his image.
another ungrateful fba punk
I agree. The “mainstream” narrative is mostly propaganda based but I’ve noticed that the Hip Hop museum has been trying to get the history accurate in the background. A recent article they just released Beyond DJ Kool Herc: The Unsung Pioneers and Communities That Shaped Hip-Hop’s Early Evolution.
“The Collective Genesis of Hip-Hop: Beyond DJ Kool Herc
DJ Kool Herc is often hailed as the founding father of hip-hop after DJing the infamous block party at 1520 Sedgwick Avenue in the Bronx for his sister’s birthday party, but pivotal contributions from South Bronx gang The Black Spades, the Bronxdale housing projects, and Disco King Mario are often overlooked.
The Broader Roots of Hip-Hop Culture
While Herc is celebrated for integrating breakbeats into his DJ sets, numerous pioneers do not regard this pivotal moment as the birth of hip-hop since the culture had already been thriving before this innovation. Hip-hop did not originate from a single individual or event. It emerged from the collective efforts of a community and culture”
Although this is a start it’s not good enough, all the false propaganda needs to be removed from the mainstream including anything associated with that phony Aug. 11th flyer and the false November 12th date that Charlie Rock even admits that the Zulu Kings etc. did not start at this time. Some started transitioning from Black Spades to Zulu Kings after the police shooting of some of the members and someone named “Soulski” in January
I always point out what Martin L King said. At some point silence is betrayal" = herc
Facts but he's said it before. I was watching them and became Americanized." And the guy he credited from back in Jamaica was Partners with Coxstone Dodd. The Founder of Studio One. And even that man has said "I copied from Black American Artists on the Radio." they were copying our songs, Aretha Franklin, Dionne Warwick, Diana Ross Etta James ETC... and that's how Reggae was formed. They added their own spin to already made music. So if Jamaican influences are what HipHop is made of, where was the Jamaican influences in early HipHop? It wasn't any. It's all Funk, Blues, and Hard James Brown Drum Solos. It's not that important to me, I'm just adding what I've seen through videos and Wikipedia. And before the 50th Anniversary HipHop is the Creator of Reggae Music. And after that Anniversary the following YEAR, Herc and Jamaican influences showed up in Wikipedia. Mario has been placed and edited in and out of the history. Now Herc is the Father of HipHop and a lot of people know that's just not true. The Black Spades say otherwise.
KRS 1 is not going to speak on Hip Hop with the PIONEERS! How could he be a scholar and teacher of Hip Hop when the people who created it is present? He becomes the student and the Hip Hop was started by a Jamaican and everybody was there LIE would look silly talking to the PIONEERS! Plus the lie is the bag!
On a side note, what’s the elixir Young Blackjack is siping in there, that’s why he stays young?
Dude is real. Knew him for a long time. As a youngin, I was one of those cats hustling at Path Mark n pitching pennies with them cats. Glad to see him humbled now because he was putting that work in on the Rock. Believe me....I know!
@@dreval7957 yes sir I can really tell. Now I see why all your comments is on point. Salute 🫡.
@@AKiEM.RESPECT!
35:15 Young Blackjack mentions Josie Wells from Patterson Projects. I could be wrong but I heard he is the younger brother of Peanut from the Black Spades 17th div. and original leader of Casanovas. That means that Blackjack was also Peanuts cousin
All family . Factz
@@ClevelandLawson-wy9nd Bro how did you not mention that? Please talk about Peanut in your next video
Real Spit 🤔
Certain hoods the gangs had no wins, wouldn't even dare, "Come in piece or leave in pieces"💥💥💥🔨
Our brothers in they 60’s made me feel like time stopped, black ain’t cracking
Damn this 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
SALUTE Like and Shared From Boston Massachusetts where we celebrate HipHop Culture Awareness Month of Massachusetts that was est. 11/18/2011 by MC SPICE
The brother talking that said violence don't come out of cowboy music is bugging more violence has come out of country music than anything else
Yes it has its variety like rnb has it variety, yet nothing like what comes out of hip hop, its like being on the block when you in the hip hop industry, you cant see it from past to present. I understand what your saying too,, yet nothing like hip hop, thats a whole different level. Wholeeeeeee diffrent level
@OzdenBolatgiran that's because that's all you want to see that's because the television tells you that black people are the ones that are violent. I guarantee you those 13 correctional officers in Elmira that killed that man that was handcuffed listen to country and western there's so much that goes under the table That You Don't See but your mind is asleep even though you think you're awake when you talk that nonsense about nothing like hip hop but that's all you doing is talking you not making much sense. The most violent people in America are people who listen to that music and their crimes don't go reported on the news it's just a fact but I digress
They still with this lol
I disagree: krs is on the side of lies. He definitely is not prepared to defend his lies in front of the receipt keepers.
So Charlie Rock said KRS-1 was full of it?? Where they do this at?
I want to see video footage of this middle-class Bronx I want to see video footage a black folks living middle class status in the Bronx during the time of allegedly when Hip-Hop supposed to have started
Amazing
#realhiphophistory
DR colon and cholly rock did a interview talking about phase
@Ruben6869... saying what?
@@TheCulture..Starts1971 Calling phase a liar saying f him
@Rueben6869... ok thank you... I saw the first 5 minutes of it.. and didn't see cholly say anything about dj phase... its hard for me to watch that Spanish guy for too long cuz of his pride and stubbornness against the truth... so when I feel up to it (probably in the far future) I'll try to look at the whole video..but thank you.. I appreciate the notice
@@TheCulture..Starts1971 that spanish dude be lying so much..sometimes I have a hard time watching too. he's got me blocked. he was just on live Tuesday morning claiming rap battles comes from Europe in the 1500s..
19:45 Poor folks couldn't afford the equipment mix and 2 turntable
Never heard of stealing
Mario Father played Music on his Sound System before they came to the Bronx. All Mario did was continue what his Father use to do down there. They had equipment and Kool DJ DEE doesn't get a lot of Credit because his Sound System played a big part of MARIO having a good sound. I believe Kool DJ DEE was the first ECHO CHAMBER. This is all Bronxdale Houses
@@JePe-on4ff That didn't happen until the blackout in '76... that's when hip hop really spread all over, because they looted a lot of the DJ equipment... but in '71, they bought that equipment.
@@KtotheG stealing been going on since the beginning of time what are you talking about you can't be serious to think people didn't steal in the 70s 😂😂😂
@@JePe-on4ff I said in '76... learn how to read... Mario didn't steal his equipment. He got it from Kool DJ Dee, who bought his. Those guys were hustlers. They were making money in the streets. You can't fit that stuff in your pocket or jacket. You would have to burglarize a store at night and hope you don't get caught... or you would go in knock over the store clerks in the middle of the day and maraud the place. You're mad because my dudes had money and you didn't.
HIP HOP IS FROM BLACK AMERICANS 😊
45:45 what did these JAMAICAN 🇯🇲 people look like?!?! Not….black? 🤷🏾♂️
Nothing but childish division division and some more division... Small hats been running the game getting all the loot since day one! Stop the nonsense its embarrassing!
Thanks for your support
Small hats?
Salute to yall but let’s be real when it comes to this FBA THING Bronx FBA DROP THE BALL LETTING LATINOS TAKE OVER THE BRONX
Did James Brown grow up in New York? Just checking.
Jamar on crack 😂😂😂
YoungBlackjack smoked mfers boots❤️🏆😆🌝
Our era was a era that cant be measured, just like the 20s had there era over shadowed everything in its time.. unbelieveable.
Were lord Jamal at?
That was not correct because when Snoop Dog and Death Row came out in the West coast Wu Tang came out of Yonkers not the Bronx. That was the year Yusef Hawkins was killed in Brooklyn. So, KRS forgot HIP HOP was sold out by Surg Knight and Erv Gotti we never had kids being beaten to death like that.
What about KRS-One said that there would not be Hip Hop without Puerto Ricans ask if thats true to young blackjack !
He answered that question at the end of the interview.
@@lroyjetsonson5060 That's great.
@@gradeawork2242100 and they act like something is owed to them meanwhile many of them wouldn’t be relevant of it wasn’t for those putting in that work, keeping it alive, and moving it forward.
If this was really about resolving truth and not clout chasing, it would of been sorted already.
Thats a strange take: the problem is the liars like krs keep lying even after the facts come out.
Krs one has a temple . Dudes are bums
all that means is he has an extreme ego
You a groupie if you can’t bring facts and just blindly follow
@@nthatomokgata I’m waiting son. What is your contribution to the culture? Nothing. I suggest you just stay out the way. Hiphop culture doesn’t need people like you.
@@gheewhiz and what have you done for the culture other than text your bum thoughts. 💭 you haven’t done nothing. No music no books no institutions. You guys are dust.
@@gheewhiz you guys are like crabs 🦀. You guys disgust me.
COME ON NOW.
THESE DANCES ARE
UNIVERSAL
Yall gotta stop it! Why aren’t there no videos of nobody else doing them before us? And still till today we come up with slang dances style of dress and yall copy all of it look how yall get yall hair cut that’s universal too right! Facts are facts and they have no feelings or lies!
@@Black_unity597 💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Everything Black Americans create people say is American urban and now universal! You a lie and the truth ain't no where near you!
Yall are just shameful.
@WarriorsCherub999 Truthful is a more fitting word
"Kool Herc played at the basketball court BECUZ OF MY AUNT!!!!!!" ......sounds like Joe MUHFCKIN Pesci LIKE S***!!!!!!!! PRECIATE yah brothas droppin these M.O.A.B. on this hip hip shit......🙏!!!!!!!!!!! S/O to Lord Jamar ......👊!!!!!!!!
It’s not that Herc started hip hop but he had the biggest influence when he started the merry go round and break beats
Lord Jamar not fit to deal with Krs one
Yea you on drugs
@Superlongevityinstitute Intellectually he definitely is. Remember KRS-1 said that he doesn't care what Bambatta did. That was after he knew what he did. So don't let your Groupie love blind your common sense. Because he did make a song that's probably your favorite called "13 and GOOD."🤦🏿♂️
@@lroyjetsonson5060 Remember When Jamar posed nude in the HBO prison show OZ? That was nasty work. And can you give me some the lyrics to 13 and good.
@@prfu1222being nude in a scene and POSING nude are two different things. You make it sound like he was doing a sex scene when that actually wasn't. Stop it.
Lord Jamar wasnt lyrically fit to deal with Eminem either.....but damn if he didnt tell the truth about him TOO.
He can't do the math. He was 7. 😂😂😂
tHANKS ,TOLD YOU KNOWLEGE IS BORN ALWAYS
KRS 1
LOST HIS SECOND BATTLE. don't forget NELLY beat him LLS
Nelly aint beat him. You a clown and not hip hop at all
Cope harder fba punk
Nelly 😢😅that Will never happen man
You buggin
SO WHAT HAPPENED WHEN KRS 1 CAME AT NELLY ???????.
Roots, we get it. But, what is it a thousand times that nobody understands? Herc, Afrika Bambooty, & the Zulu Nation were the ones who took those original elements & created a culture called Hip Hop & brought it to the light of the media. Hip Hop is NOT only the elements, it's handshakes, distinct walking, fashion, communication which was CLEARLY an urban collaboration amongst a certain community. If it was JUST Fba, it would have died out like your typical fads. Original Hip Hop is BRONX, NY not a specific race. Stop lying to yourselves.
Boy stop. American negroes ain't been influenced by nobody else's fashion. We are trendsetters. And if there was any truth to that last portion of what you stated you would have been seen said cultural elements in those respective countries in other parts of the Americas. Quit the shit. Making up a category to a genre you did not create just to place yourself/others in the story in nasty work son. This is some straight colonizer work, like saying all black people come from Africa. Tell us your sir name is Colo'n without telling us your last name is Colo'n. Nasty work. But this is North American, Southeastern, Eastern Woodland indigenous culture, and the Conquistador's words have never been law in these parts, and neither has any effort ever prevailed. Know the land, know your story, not history. 🪶🪶🪶
The black spades created hip hop culture not tne zulu nation, bambataa was a young spade. You mentioned fashion, communication etc which are black American since the slang is ebonics and the hip fashion is black American as well, how can it be a sub culture when west Indian's and Latino were emulating exactly what the African Americans were doing? The three west Indian's (bam, herc and flash) copied African American culture and became Americanised as they had to fit in to become part of the culture.
To your last point about hip hop would of died out if it was only African American, why would it???? The most influential rappers, breakdancers and djs have all been African Americans like melle mel, rakim, kool g rap, Mr wave, flip rock, Theodore, Mario, smokey, kool dj dee, dj premier etc. Many genre which are created by African Americans are still pretty much in active: jazz, blues, r&b, soul, funk. Hip hop would be pretty much the same just like the other genre.
@@fk90-b9z honestly been following & have participated in the culture since the 70's. I honestly NEVER looked at it as solely a "black" thing. It was an NY/NJ inner-city urban culture thing. In where us writers, b-boys, beat-boxers, DJ's, or emcees could escape reality of school or gangs in the street & collaborate for HOURS, we had our own talk, pound shakes, obsession for fashion, etc. It's crazy to hear all this because the Black kids were so loving & accepting. Ironically, the Latino's that were supposedly Hip-Hop (not all) gave me a tougher time & even were violent back in the 80's & 90s when it came to anything that had to do with the culture. Again, thanks to Hip Hop & having the power to relate through the culture, almost all the greatest associates I've made are kind hearted black people til this day. It's a Nyc urban thing imo.
@@ChamP10nk1ngSalute... all I know for sure is that to think a street culture coming from New York in that era somehow wouldn't have foreigners involved is crazy as hell to me and I guess when money and a certain level of dignity was somehow bestowed upon the "culture" all of the sudden who create what is being disputed. Up until maybe 4 years ago no one disputed the INFLUENCE of Caribbean cultures on hip hop and now we done let em divide us yet again. I don't think the OG jazz people ever disputed that there were white folks involved but we so starved to have SOMETHING to say only black people create this that we're denying things now
You foreigners really hate us. Our typical fads marrano? jazz, blues, rock, soul, funk. fuck you payaso de mentiras.
Michael Jackson was actually Puerto Rican. His birth name was Miguel Santos Yackson de la Cruz.
😂😂😂😂😂😂 thats what they goin say next.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Young Black Jack is the truth.. that Brother said VINNY VANCE from Vanderveer in spofit...my cousin Michael Merritt was in Spofit and Goshin Annex at that time..I used to visit him facts..Salute to Young Black Jack.. he tell no lies..ya heard.🫡
Tell Merritt i said whats going, that was my man , ha ha funny good dude, and real to the core.
Ok, So what are the Elements of HIPHOP
Graffiti
Breaking
MC'ing
DJ
AM I right about this?? No, I'm not from the Bronx and No, I'm not directly connected to Hiphop in no kind of way. I'm just a fan of the facts. And the facts that I've found line with FBAY in Bronxdale Houses.
Theres many more, yet many of different timelines will only say its a certain amount of Elements.
@ClevelandLawson-wy9nd well I'm referring to the beginning stage. The 5 elements that made the consistency of HIPHOP
Who cares what lord Jamar has to say he's been completely irrelevant for decades.. wasn't even top 3 in his own crew
SAMMY DAVIS JR WAS PUERTO RICAN!🇵🇷 (Sanchez was his Mommas last name!) Therefore, he was Puerto Rican. Facts!
He was half Pr, half FBA. Stop
@@IziahWhite-k1jnot only that, but he followed his father and uncles black american path, not his mothers.
@@mrwashington2474now you sound stupid!
@@IziahWhite-k1jand???
Does this mean he wasn’t born half Puerto Rican??? 😉
Dude is tripping ! Negativity comes out of rock & roll all day. Grow up: hiphop isnt founded in negativity.
Thanks for your input
Thank you, it was about having fun. Now according to DJ PHASE the rapping part started by cracking on people over the break beats while the music played and they specifically did that over the break part. According to PHASE they were just kids in 70'-71'.
@Jokah227jish we have been rapping long before 71-72 and its documented on tape.
@@WarriorsCherub999 well, I understand that. But we're strictly talking about HIPHOP. The Elements that make up HIPHOP was present and complete in 70'-71' you're talking about Rapping. Rapping dates back to damn near the 20's.
8:25 😂
Hip Hop as all musical forms it’s a melting pot of cultural influences and styles. No one American racial group has ever created anything alone .period
Name what other groups brought from their culture to hip hop !?
@ for one..graph writing my friend was done by white dudes in the Bronx and the other burrows for years be for hip hop was even created, black, brown and white kids all did graffiti together. Most of the original break beats aside from jame brown came from white records and artist along with salsa records. Most all of the first hip hop rap recordings were produced by white guys, look who produced Planet Rock just as one example. Hip Hop isn’t just Rapping. I’m 54 years old and this thing we call Hip Hop is my professional historical life’s journey my
Homeboy . I’m sick with this..I know what I’m talking about .
@@sreyna3000mostly everything you said there is wrong tho
@sreyna3000
You are out of your mind! Salsa ain’t have nothing to do with hip hop and all music genres were created by US BLACK AMERICANS! So all that BS you talking is all pure BULLSHIT! Latinos hated us then and still hate us now it was never no Black and yall fake brown unity! Yall not brown the majority of yall blood comes from Spaniards that’s who yall really are and that’s how yall classify yourselves as white show your 🪪 bet it says white! We know who yall are! It’s a cold blooded lie to say that no music was created by one racial group! Question who created r&b who created funk who created rock & roll who created jazz soul and so on nobody helped us create any music. We are the heart beat of the world and all of yall follow what we do all the way to the point where yall have to lie just to make yourself feel better! Knock it off we have been doing this before any Latino ever touched foot on this soil!
@@sreyna3000 First of all every culture comes with Language and the language in Hip Hop comes from black american vernacular not every body else proof the word (1) Hip came from the Jazz area (2) Hop came from the Lindy Hop dance (3) Boogie down for start came from our vernacular now tell us what vernacular from Puerto Ricans are Jamaicans are any other culture we been saying back in the 70s and far as for break beats we been doing that like from Motown to James brown funk and Soul Train to disco know other group of people in North America has more genres of music and dances then black american now prove me wrong no more capping son you hear one of our slang again AND I KNOW REAL HISTORY NOT KRS-ONE FALSE HISTORY.
Lord Jamar said Graffiti & Breakdancing is not Hip Hop?😂😂😂 He does not know what he is talking about.
These dudes are all proudful. We the Children invented Hip Hop as a collective , no one race started it - our culture was us against our parents Generation - our movement was a "rebel" movement like Punk & Reggae we were anti everything our parents did , we were rebelling everything that was theirs, Disco dancing pop music & yes even RACISM ; all that mattered when you stepped in the cypher was SKILLS - nothing else matttered"!" Proof of this is in the 2 of the elements Jamar conviently says are not Hip Hop which is "Graff & BBoying" these two ellements were dominated by white boys bombers & Puerto Ricans & Dominicans breakdancing.
Hip Hop was not a "race" movement it was a "childrens" movement ; Children don't see black & white ."
ty
Lord jamar is a descendant of Guyana how is he talking
When did he ever say that
@@immanueleburne3216He FBA with a portion of Guyana lineage . His mother is Black American . Stop spreading lies
@ how is it a lie when your blood line stems from the seed which comes from the father? You said a portion of Guyana lineage,😂😂 there is no such thing you are what your father is. Tell the truth shame the…. Y’all are arguing about who started and who is credited for HipHop with a half and half leading the charge. Isn’t it ironic 😂😂😂😂
*Hip hop history was like this..*
see replies ( view from newest to see all comments)
There's probably some kernels of truth to Latino contribution with the demographics of Bronx. You had Carlos Mendez, (Charlie Chase), DJ Wiz…however FBA (Foundationaly Black American) in origins. Facts that can't be obfuscated in FBA founding on all components of hip hop (except graffiti art). This stuff is timestamped and recorded
1
Herc never said he transplanted hip hop from his homeland of Jamaica to NYC. In fact, we hear, the opposite on a 1989 recorded interview. He notes that people weren't feeling his native music at the time, so funk and soul was played…and James Brown was the main one.
2
Puerto Rican pioneers like Ken Swift, Crazy Legs, Mr Wiggles , Jo Jo, Willie Will, and Alien Ness, a PR ZuluKing, 1970s -all allude to the African American origins of the dance (more details in pt 2 replies). Legs says in like the latter 70s, they would call it Morano style whenever the moves that came from early 70s Zulu Kings was noticed (exemplified by FrostyFreeze). Morano denotes black and original in this context. He says this is the original style, tho played out by the latter 70s - very very early 80s. Puerto Rican youth added much to that.
The earliest b-boy crew people can recall by name and memory has consistantly been the Zulu Kings in interviews over time (circa 1973, probably still Black Spades or Baby Spades till 75, but they were Bronx Burning or Uprocking to minor floor moves as Spades before 1975). The b-boys back then were African American youth like Sasa, Trixie, PeeWee Dance, CharlieRock, N….Twins, Dancing Doug, Beaver, Lil Boy Keith and more. After 1976-77 the original African American youth began moving away from the dance. It was becoming "old hat", and more and more Puerto Rican youth picked up on, added to, and expanded on it. Crazy Legs said the brothas would say THAT'S PLAYED OUT when he would break in like 78-79 There's early 90s footage of Lil-Boy Keith (his 70s street name), demonstrating early ZuluKings style. He's also in the 1984 documentary Beat This, A Hip Hop History. Footage of him reminds me of KenSwift's description of old style breaking being more sporadic and lots of freezes. Also PeeWee Dance hanging with RockSteady in the early 90s..going off, Spade dancing, Bronx Burning ,uprocking…
In a 1984 episode of The Scene ( Detroit), Bronx native Kurtis Blow, famous 70s rapper and "breakdancer", was asked what came first, breaking or rap. Kurtis tells the host that back in 1972, the dance was called Burning. This is well before the modern Ytb debates. Important to mention, because only people in ZuluKings neighborhood remembers the term.
3
In a interview circa 1984, Melle Mel was asked where do you guys get names like Grand Master Flash. Long before Ytb and Internet and debates on hiphop's origins, Mel tells us…we were influenced by people like Grand Master Flowers (African American) of 60s Brooklyn. Keep in mind that Flowers opened up for James Brown in 1968 at Yankee Stadium in Bronx, NY…..perhaps the initial point it was transplanted from Brooklyn to Bronx. Melle Mel, as well as Mr Ness (Scorpio of Furious Five) was in a b-boy crew called D Squad. Fellow member Fuji of the long forgotten group said this was 1974 in middle school. There is a picture of Mel and Fuji in more recent times and Fuji in the 70s.
In a documentary about a Bronx, NY neighborhood called Simpson Street, filmed 1977 and released in 79, we hear perhaps the first publicly broadcast hip hop sound. After the narrator finishes speaking near the beginning, the next scene opens up to a roof top party with a 70s rap sound. Some people, claiming they were there that night, say that's Mr Ness and Grand Master Flash you hear in the background(?)...Melle Mel is mentioned in the list of shout-outs, so it likely was.
Sounds like Coke La Rock's description of his original 1972-73 style… A list of shout-outs to people in the room and a little rhyming in between.
In the 77 doc, young blacks and Puerto Ricans hanging out together seem to get along very well like street family.
4
Coke la Rock (African American) was the first Emcee/rapper (in hiphop) and best friend of Kool Herc, going back to middle school in the 1960s . He says that it wasn't a music genre back then, but it's just the way he talked on the Mic when giving announcements…and the people loved it. This is a very important detail because specifically African American announcers and performers have always rhyme talked to beats in this manner, going back to the 30s and 40s. Back then ya might hear … "WELL AH REET, ALL ROOT, ALL RIGHT…BE AT THE JITTER BUG CONTEST TONIGHT. You have the Co Real Artist out of Los Angeles (total opposite side of country) with the 1974 song "What ya Gonna Do In The World Today". They sound like The Funky Four Plus One's 1979-81 style. Gary Byrd in the early 70s - absolutely rapping with that early 70s hip jazz/soul style. Jacko Henderson in the 50s, The Jubilees 1940s, Pig Meat Markam in the 60s.. Mind PowerJames Brown 1973, Last Poets 1971, Frankie Jaxson 1929 Jive Man Blues (absolutely rapping), Beale St Sheiks, It's a Good Thing 1927,
Memphis Jug Band, with Whitewash Station Blues 1920s
I would even say songs like Don't Burn Your Candles at Both Ends by Loius Jordan , 1940s…in the movie Look Out Sister 1946, but more like rapp on the record version. Or his 40s song Beware. Even more so like rapp than singing was his song Look Out (also in the 1940s independent AA movie).
The Last Poets (latter 60s - very early 70s) with songs like Run, MEAN MACHINE - 1971 (MUST LISTEN TO THAT ONE IF YOU NEVER HEARD), True Blues, On the Subway (1970), New York New York, and others, were rapping back then with poetry and African sounding drum. Keep in mind that rapp means to talk, not neccesarily rhyming, (they often did).
Coke does make the connection to The Last Poets, as influence and others like that (in the video "Coke la Rock a DJ, With Herc".. by The Culture, Started in 71, at 35:28 in vid). Same with, DJ Hollywood (1971-)
Herc credits Coke for rapp in the vid "Kool Herc on the Role Coke (MC) Played".
In the 1930s soundie (musical short/music video) called Caravan, The Mills Brothers are rapping in the scene where he's talking to the young lady. Not long after that, the young man starts basically uprocking into breakdance swipes.
Jacko Henderson is in the 1981 20/20 ABC news special, covering this new thing called…HIPHOP. Jacko is very familiar with this sound as he snaps his fingers remembering a few 1950s verses.
In 1983, Gary Byrd appeared on the British show Black on Black by LWT Studios (London tv). He was asked when did he start rapping. Byrd tells the host that in 1965 he came across some tapes of Jacko Henderson from the 1950s, doing this style of announcements on radio (also done by other African American DJs across America). Byrd's songs from 1970 - 73 include Soul Traveling (very much like rapping) , If the People Only Knew, Are You Ready for Black Power…
In the latter 60s into the 70s Frankie Crocker of NYC radio was known to rhyme talk in a manor that sounds like a predecessor to hiphop music. He might say HEY BABY, IT'S GUARANTEE TO PUT A CUT IN YOUR STRUT, A GLIDE IN YOUR STRIDE, A DIP IN YOUR HIP…IF YOU AIN'T DIGGING THIS, YOU MUST HAVE A WHOLE IN YO SOUL. He also appeared in 70s movies like Five on the Black Hand Side and Darktown Strutters.
In a 1973 movie called Five on the Black Hand Side, the Kool guy who walks into the barbershop immediately puts a coin in the jukebox, and starts doing what they once called jive talking. Sounds so much like rap, the Sugar Hill Gang used one of the verses. Both Ali and H. Rapp Brown (coincidently) spoke in this manner in the 60s and very early 70s (warning if looking up Brown's 60s speeches…they may contain a few epithets. Sensitive political and social times).
Also in Five on the Black Hand Side, the Black Panther like character that walks into the barbershop asking permission to put up a flyer for the freedom of one of his brethren, then reminds them that the police are becoming more fascist. After that, he sort of raps when he says…WOE TO THOSE WHO CAN'T SWIM JIM. Then he walks out in a rhythmic like manner. Frankie Crocker does a little poetry as he remembers everyone street number (street lottery) in one of the barbershop scenes
KRS-1 references Coke in a 80s rap. His partner was Scott LA Rock, and they followed the trend from early 70s Coke La Rock. We also have ShaLa Rock…female rapper from the latter 70s - early 80s, and others… Rapper and 70s breakdancer T La Rock (African American…Known for the 1984 rap song It's Yours) Even a 1978 Puerto Rican based breakdance crew named Starchild La Rock.
5
Batch, a Puerto Rican guy who created TBB (The Bronx Boys) as a youth in circa 1975-76. They were a breaking crew. He tells Colon on a Livestream (no time to edit out😂)….YOU CAN SEE ON MY SCREEN IM PROUD OF MY RICAN HERITAGE WITH THE FLAG ON THE WALL, BUT THIS HIPHOP COMES FROM THE BROTHAs… Deer in the headlights look
From a firsthand perspective, Batch says on another modern Ytb vid that he was inspired by the ZuluKings or Spades, before TBB. Also Willie Will of Rockwell A., said he seen ZuluKing go to floor 1st
6
Everyone that came up in the Bronxdale projects during that time of the 60s and early 70s seem to remember DJ King Mario (Afn Am).. concurrent with Herc. In fact, a few said they knew each other, but Mario like to do outdoor block party/festival style, while Herc was more indoor venues.
7
One of the first Hispanic hip hop DJs said he seen all black people back then and sometimes wondered if he would be rejected based on his ethnic background. He found a warm welcome, because it was based on how good you were and not race. HE WAS GOOD. (in other words, even a African American youth would be booed off the stage and told to go back to his borough in a NYC accent, if they weren't good).
continued in replies ...
cont...
You always had R&B music artist incorporate a little Latin sound like Reasons by Earth Wind & Fire 1975…with a Cuban style, or Running on the 1977 All N All album. Also Herman Kelly with the 1978 song dance to the drummer beat.
Tito Puente of Puerto Rican background was a musician who played on certain SugarHill rap records.
Carlos Mendez not only cofounded the Cold Crush Brothers circa 1977, but also established the first know hiphop gathering or convention, circa 1979-80. At least 2 members of the Fearless 4 were of Puerto Rican background in the latter 70s- early 80s. Also a lesser known Mean Machine 1980.
DJ Hollywood, African American, was known as early as 71 with his call and response style (rap). He says influencers were Frankie Crocker, Oscar Brown, Rudy Moore Pig Meat Markum, Last Poets (same as Coke La Rock)...(interview on KEXP). People that remember him first-hand are Coke La Rock, Kurtis Blow, Cholly Rock and others. More in next reply on hiphop's predecessor and the known pioneers including Herc, that remember names like John Brown, DJ Pete Jones, Grand Master Flowers ( Brooklyn 1960s - 70s)...
Better known by his stage name Pumpkin, 70s-80s HipHop drummer Errol Eduardo Bedward played on many songs of the genre. His overall appearance was of a typical African American, but was of Costa Rican and Panamanian background. He spoke fluent Spanish. Artist he played for include…(1979 to 1984), Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five Spoonie Gee, Treacherous Three, Funky Four, Grandmaster Caz, the Fearless Four, and Dr. Jeckyll & Mr. Hyde.... His 1983 single "King of the Beat", Pumpkin and the Profile All-Stars' "Here Comes the Beat" (Profile, 1984).
Jimmy Castor was African American. He was very familiar with the Latin and Caribbean sound…though rooted in soul and funk. His family was from Bermuda, as he tells us in a 2006 interview on a old website called Turntable Treat, by Sean from NJ (?…now obsolete but interview saved). Also was part of Tito Puente's band in NYC clubs. Speaking of hiphop, we know him for the 1972 song "It's Just Begun", form the Flashdance breaking scene, and used by many b-boys…
Puerto Ricans bros like Ken Swift, Crazy Legs, Mr Wiggles, Jo Jo, and even Trac 2 (when he was younger and humble😄), said they saw mostly African American youth breaking before like 75-77. Trac is in a 1978 photo with Spy (black or Afro Puerto Rican). Also Rene and Boss same year. They just won a breaking competition. Crazy legs said Spy was the first person he ever seen do this dance as a 9 year old in 76. Spy was in his early teens. In rare photos from an original RSC (Rock Steady Crew) website, Legs is in 1979-81 photos with forgotten African American members like Ski, Kippy D, Lil Craze, and their 1977 cofounder Jimmy Dee (with PuertoRican friend Lee). I say this so you can see the dance was both African American and Puerto Rican at the same time. You kind of sense that in the old photos (many youth added moves to it that became popular). Jo Jo stated that before the mid 70s it was mostly African Americans breaking and rare to see Puerto Rican youth. He mentioned from a first hand perspective, the ZuluKings in the vid…." JoJo: (Crazy Commanders/RSC) - "Rican bboys were so rare, Blacks looked at us like little…."
Jo Jo (PR) and Kevski (AA) are in a modern livestream. They were in the same mid 70s Bronx b-boy crew.
On a modern Livestream, Fast Breaks, African American of original Magnificent Force, says he started breaking in 1975 after seeing his cousin do "drops" at a party. He says his cousin would hang around ZuluKing members. There's a excellent performance on Livewire 1983. Magnificent Force from Bronx, NY, predate the 83 national youth craze.
Spy claims he started doing floor moves as his own creation, but does mention he came up around Black Spades (ZuluKings) in South Bronx before moving to other part of NYC as a 70s youth. Actually stating Bronx River Projects is where he started (come on, you know where he got it from). This is a problem in the testimonials of how the dance started. The tribal mentality (on both sides of the "debate") . Most center themselves in the overall story - further distorting the history. When trying to credit Puerto Ricans for the breaking, people will mention the dances of Roberto Roena 1974 (black or Afro Puerto Rican)…Tito Rodriguez at the Palladium 1950s, or the Latin dancers on Ed Sullivan, 1957. In the 74 Roberto Roena footage with Celia Cruz and All-Stars, he's doing the exact moves of Little Buck (Conrad Buckner), an African American) from two decades prior. Also in the same sequence….EVEN THE HELICOPTER LEG AND KNEE WALK. The walk around on one hand is S. Davis Jr (BoogieWoogie) and others 1940. When mentioned, it's still downplayed to make it seem absolutely Puerto Rican in origin, and the African American predecessor isn't taken serious. The moves stem from African American Jazz dances of the 1920s - 50s. A decade prior to even Little Buck, we have the Berry Brothers (spinning with acrobatics 1940s) Mills Brothers 1930s Caravan soundie (both rapping and strait up rocking into swipes), or Little Step Brothers 60s See "Ancestral roots of the Bboy Pt 1 (1920s-1940s clips)"…A MUST SEE.
If we were to accept Spy's claim of being the first, what do we do about the dilemma in all the other claims and even a modern gathering of original 1st generation "B-boys" like Sasa, Trixie Dancing Doug.... Did they gather under false pretenses with fake memory of being the first (video - Original Bboy Reunion)
In a 2013 gathering celebrating hiphop, Crazy Legs introduced their 1977 African American cofounder, Jimmy Dee, to the crowd. Many never seen him because being a couple of years older (upper teens), he went off to college by time the 80s came around. In a modern Ytb livesteam interview, he says in like 78 this 12 year old, exuberant about the dance dormant in Bronx and Harlem at the time, asked him if they can start a new chapter of RSC before moving to Manhattan. We know this enthusiastic dancer as Crazy Legs
In the 1974 movie "Education of Sonny Carson", coincidently about a African American gang in New York City, the one teen that likes to dance is up-rocking into James Brown like splits (Staten Island boat scene and parade scene). It reminds me when Ken Swift describes old style breaking (before 1976/77) as looking more like FrostyFreeze style ( African American teen in Flashdance who jumps on his back. Movie was filmed in 1981 and released in 83)
In the outtakes of StyleWars, filmed in 81 and released in 83, Kippy D of old Rock Steady Crew informs us that they just incorporated Poplocking from the West coast. This componant lumped into breakin was absolutely African American. A derivative of 1969 locking, created by Don Campbell (AfricanAmerican), POPPIN was introrduced to L.A. youth by Boogaloo Sam and his brother Poppin Pete (African American) of Fresno, CA, circa 1976. So it's like it came full circle back to L.A - stemming from lockin, Popping from the roboting element..with a little pantomiming). Debuted on SoulTrain in 1978 by Jeff Danials and his crew, it soon became a popular. On 1977 Gong Show, you can see the morph from rorbiting to popping with Robitoid INC. Also, Black Resurgence, 1976.
The 1978 movie Young Blood, set in L.A. California, we see the helicopter leg in the teen club scene. There was already a minute element in locking that look like breaking with leg kicks and turning around on floor. Often done by the eccentric regular of mid 70s SoulTrain...the young guy with the giant toothbrush and sometimes boxing gloves.
Think his moniker was Mr X.
Episodes with X absolutely breakdancing included...
1
The Undiputable Truth -You and Me, 1976
2
I Don't Want to Loose Your Love by Emotions (ST line dance),
3
The Sylvers - Hotline (SoulTrain dancers 1976),
4
Get Up and Boogie by Silver Connection (dancing episode, not in the line or band in person).
Another interesting detail in StyleWars (filmed in 81…important to emphasize that here), Frosty Freeze tells the interviewer that the dance started in Bronx as well as parts of Harlem.
Brooklyn Rock dance is not the base of up rock commonly used in breaking. You have a Puerto Rican Rock dancer of 70s saying he seen breaking in the Bronx circa 1975 and it looked nothing like what they did. It appears that rocking was feet shuffling while uprocking was more jumping and arm swinging movements. Even Brooklyn Rock Dance, with it's mysterious origin, shows more affinity to African American style than Latino
(See last comment for interview with Frank papo" Rojas...latter 60 -70s PuertoRican Brooklyn Rock Dancer)
In the 1950s African American teens created their own form of Mambo. (Look up Brooklyn Mambo, 1950s). It's very close to RockDance. Even in some of the footage Spirit Moves between the 1920s -50s, similarities show up here and there. So far we can't find videos of Latin dance in this manner concurrent to that 50s era. Uprockin for breakin comes from Spade Dance (Black Spades, 60s - early 70s Bronx gang). Just like C-walking (Crip Walk 1970s), people just forgot over time the African American street culture these styles are based on. In the history of Melbourne Shuffle, no one seems to mention or allude to the fact they're C-Walking with a little 80s New Jack Swing…sped up. This is the same scenario in not recognizing Uprock being originally Spade Dance. In a 1990, hiphop doc, PeeWee Dance, an original ZuluKing member, hangs with RSC as he demonstrates the raw essence of what they did in the early 70s. He is SpadeDancing/Uprockin/BronxBurning/Going Off (video is on Ytb…YOU GET THE SENCE OF WHY THEY CALLED IT GOING OFF)
Graffiti art was born in 60s NYC and included many races of people. Black, Hispanic, Italian, and even firsthand accounts of Asian. There's no definitive evidence that it came from Philly of the 60s
God bless (see Biblical Salvation
Up Rock did not come from Brooklyn Rock Dance. It was Spade dance ( black spades), Bronx Burning - as Kurtis Blow tells us in 1984 on Detroit's The Scene show... long before this modern debate..
From Frank Rojas, Puerto Rican Brooklyn Rock Dancer from the 60s and 70s. This is the pioneer who said he seen breaking as a young guy in 1975 Bronx, and he and his friends didn't see it as what they did in Brooklyn...or even perceive it as dancing .
Note
From 3:20 -3:58, we hear him clearly distinguish the dances he did culturally as a Puerto Rican at home, vs what the African Americans were doing down the block. He gravitated the dances of the brothers more as a starting point in Brooklyn Rock Dancing vs his traditional dance innate in him.
(the main point are capitalized and allude to the African American origins of even the Brooklyn Rock Dance)
From a transcript of video interview
"...it was it was a uh the beauty of it was that it was a black and puerto rican community
2:31
you know so you had you know on my block I lived in the middle and on my left was you know mostly
2:38
Puerto Rican and on my right on the same block right was the black community
2:44
so I had you know I had the distinct pleasure um and pretty much the honor to be
2:49
brought up you know with both cultures which influenced me as a person right....
2:56
...not just me as a dancer because you know that's where it all started um right on that neighborhood
and even prior to that i come from a family you know who you know the dance Salsa you know Merengue you
3:15
know it was a party in my house every every weekend so i grew up you know
3:20
with with that flavor...
...more Salsa Right Merengue And You KNOW CHA CHA, AND I DUG IT , IT'S IN MY DNA
3:39
I DID IT BUT I LIKED WHAT THE BROTHERS WERE DOING DOWN THE BLOCK A LOT MORE YEAH AND SO LIKE COMING OUT OF YOUR
3:47
(interviewer)
House And Just Existing In Your NEIGHBORHOOD WHAT DID YOU SEE FROM THOSE BROTHERS DOWN THE BLOCK
3:52
THAT RIGHT THAT ATTRACTED ME, IT WAS WAS THE GROOVE RIGHT so you know we're talking about
3:58
you know 67 68 69 right so you know you you at that time you you
4:05
there was always a new dance like when a song came out there was a dance that went to the song
4:11
okay so like as far back as i could remember so even even in in my house right though...
4:18
....it was it was it was salsa but the uh the hispanic community came up
4:24
with an english version of salsa which they call the latin boogaloo so that's the first like american way of
4:32
dancing for me right so the latin boogaloo the first dance i learned was called the African
4:38
twist right so and that that was a song by Eddie Palmetti
4:43
all right so then after that you know i mean i was a good dancer i could move so everywhere i went they you know
4:50
come on pop get down right so my nickname is papa that's what they call me on the street
4:55
um so i remember the first dance I learned was the tighten up
5:01
Archie Bell in the Drells right there was the tighten up I remember the mother popcorn all right
5:08
the mother popcorn James Brown there was a dance called the mother popcorn that's where all my groove came
5:14
from and who was making these dances up were they just being created they were fun for me yeah yeah from the community..."
SKIPPING OVER TO THE FOLLOWING. PAY ATTENTION TO THIS PORTION
21:49
had competitions right like once a weekend sometimes twice a weekend because again
21:55
this was so let me just go back a little bit right so [Music] you know when i was doing those dances
22:03
to those songs right the [Music] the it was the black community that
to those songs right the [Music] the it was the black community that
22:09
pretty much was the power of dance right but then you had the puerto ricans who
22:15
came in did what the black community did because we loved it you know we did the groove just as good we had the soul we had soul
22:21
right yeah so but we also had that salsa
22:27
all of that so we put that together and we became the power the power shifted and it was
22:34
the puerto rican community and in those clubs the fresh the kontiki the footsteps
22:40
and there was clubs before that right so there was the forbidden fruit right there was the ruby fool there was
22:46
the pegasus
With that said, go look up vids like Brooklyn Mambo 1957 (African American form), or Spirit moves 1920s - 50s. Look to see if you can find any Latin dance concurrent to that time in this same manor...
It was a timeline that cause a uplift with our culture that brought a certain attitude and behavior that was savage because one had to act accordingly to its timeline , not meaning for it to go anywhere, because who knew hip hop would even come into existence.
Yall missed a spot not putting the sammy davis jr dem going crazy
@8:53 Jamar kinda looks like Marmaduke.
Hip hop did not start in one specific area of NYC! You had 3-4 sections of the Bronx where hip hop style parties were held. Some areas were impoverished. Other areas were middle class. You also had people like Grand Master Flowers in Brooklyn who also did hip hop style parties. All of this happened at the same time. There was no mess where one area had it during this time period and passed it to the other during another era. It was all at once. Just like current day where you have parties in every area of the city at any given time. Y’all need to stop this fighting from within crap. Claiming one person is a liar and another is so true. I say all parties are telling some form of truth. At the same time these events happened 40 plus years ago! None of them will recall every single memory clearly. Most of these guys are up in age. Withallduerespect! Simply saying their memory of these events may not be as clear as they believe! Lastly, stop trying to cut people out of the creation of hip hop! Hip hop was born based upon a reflection of how the city moved at that time. Many races, cultures, and groups took part in the start of hip hop! It did not exclude people because it was viewed as us treating people how we were treated. Our treatment by others was one of the main root causes of the formation of hip hop! To give ourselves something to express our feelings about being excluded by the masses! In the end what you all are doing literally goes against hip hop! Please stop it! Y’all should focus on helping hip hop grow much more without hatred/exclusion! You’re only teaching the youth to continue this same bickering over silly what, who, why, and when. This is exactly why the current rappers are dropping like flies! Look at the example you all are leaving! Smh🙄😒
Philly too. The thing is Philly started grafitti too in the 60s, and the 70s house parties morphed into deejay rocking crowds everywhere. Hip Hop started where these elements were found and most needed by masses for creativity outlets
The conversation had be had a long time because the narrative was not truthfully and the one who were really involved from the start, they were supposed to be erased so the truth would not be told...what is done in the dark will come to light!.
Oh wait Spanish people did or didn't have anything to do with Hip-Hop
KRS One was not there in the beginning.
I'm going to be honest I'm 56 years old KRS-One and this guy are wrong the attitude especially the criminal behavior is not Hip Hop this dude doing most of the talking with the very loud voice I hate guys like him I couldn't take it when I was young the loud ones were very insecure and lacking a lot of things and truth be told only bringing the Ruckus when they were with a crew or if they had a weapon. Just him talking the way he's talking is annoying because he's too old to tell these stories in that manner just speak get your point across
Thanks for the input. njoy your holiday.
Well I hope it changes .How their big names are in court backstabbing eachother with terrible accusations ...i want change . This hip hop attitude thing is being played out in the media . This disrespect of Jamaicans , Porto Ricans , Latinos , Africans . The lies about Coxsone the lies about Herc , Cholly Rock , the gr8 Ced Gee . At least reggae has culture reggae born from Soundsystem . Hip hop needs to respect soundsystem , respect the breaks , respect the elements which the pioneer Kool Herc unified . They need to ....bring it back ! ...Lord Jamar needs quiet down . FBA quit trash talking & being selective you in our fam but you dont count . if they need some heavyweight live beats just hire me . ill bring it right back to the roughness . Peace .
They are only of value to the people paying them, not to the grass roots.
The Sedgwick Tenant is talking about 73' PHASE IS TALKING ABOUT 70'-71' even in some starts of 69' The elements were building in 69'...
stupid topic. if you from the Bronx , you is Hip Hop . period
Even old NY dudes jacking Chicago slang smmfh
A lot of my people's claim to fame was being a menace to our community.... they be so happy, like yeah I did that!😫
So you're mad they're not sad?
@KtotheG did i say i was mad? Or did I just make a statement? You probably one of the wicked in our community. Now fuck anything else you got to say
@KtotheG silly boy, where did it say i was mad? because they happy about being Wicked I must be mad? Tf you talking about🤣🤣🤣🤣 but sure👍😫🤣🤣🤣
@@Coolpikkle Yeah, you mad... our people don't walk around sad about their conditions or deeds... that would mean defeat. We keep pushing no matter what.
The black spades started hip hop as the name.
But black africans been rapping since jazz, & even before because african languages are rhyming. Also Africans created all languages on earth! Fact.
Africans didn't create anything at all. It was the American Indians that was reclassified from their nationality to become colored in 1924 then negro, black in the late 60s and African in 1988.
Africans did not create everything that BA has done in America. If so, why everything that BA created was not created in Africa: Jazz, Bebop, Miltary Cadence, and the list goes on. Everyone / outsiders from BA and every place trying their hardest to take away from BA /BA Culture when BA put in all the work.
*Upmost respect to the BA Black spades in NY where it all began!
Hip hop comes for pure poverty. The bronx was then very poor, and is still the poorest of the five boroughs.
No disrespect to any of these legends and pioneers.
Spanish means you are from Spain... Puerto Ricans speak spanish. My pet peeve is when Nykers call Puerto Rican's spanish.
Original hip hop wasn't about gang Bangin drugs or gangster we rap about the struggle knowledge wisdom and uplift our people show this new rap is not hip hop is garbage
Hip hop started on the west! Prove me wrong ?? Punk ass lots Jamar was scared to debate me in the subject because he knew he would lose , I lost all respect for lame Jamar !
Elaborate please?
@ is rap all that hip hop is ? Break dancing started before rap in the form of the dance “The Lock “ and the lock is a westcoast dance started by don campbellock , this dance set in motion the essence of hip hop , counter culture dance , style of dress and most important Sneakers became the fashion statement , nothing aligns with hip hop more than sneakers ! Hip hop started on the west! An absolute fact . Punk ass lame Jamar is just a vlad flunky , an internet prostitution for clicks !
Hip hop started with Black Americans ! The mistake we made was not gate keeping our culture around tethers
@ what is a black American , people aren’t crayon colors , autochthonous, indigenous , melanated Americans , black is a construct , like African American , or colored or freedman of color , negro , Indian ,Al names created by United States which didn’t get started until almost the 1800’s , mf’s still talking 400 years of slavery bullshit , clearly they can’t count
Jamar sold out to the devil b….
Flat earth
Donald Trump
Cmon b..
Jamar is wrong but not cuz of FE ; this man actually said Graff & break dancing is not Hip Hop.😅
🙄
Hip hop and desegregation has done nothing but hurt the community overall
No, it hasn't. Single motherhood has.
Imo mfs should be putting together a fund for all these guys instead of getting into the same circular arguments over and over... Why the fuck is Herc struggling to pay his medical bills? That man should be living like a king.
Cheech & Chong created break dancing
All of you need to listing to... (Thomas Sowell)🏆 And (Walter E. Williams)🏆