this match is a 8-2 in favor of sagat and kurahashi handle it like it was 5-5,a great presentation of japan players caliber of knowing how to play the game
tiger tiger tiger tiger I love how in the final round time is running out for Choi's tiger spams, and just when he probably realizes it, he ends up losing the match its great to see how Kurahashi really worked his guile, unlike Mr Tiger shot VERY well deserved win
@yyy12232 It's the single greatest tool for controlling both space and your opponent in ST and O. Sagat has the best fireball game out of every character. If he throws a fireball at you he is forcing you to either A) take chip B) jump (which can be punished) or C) make you throw a boom, which you can't do twice in a row, leaving you to choose from A or B when he throws the second fireball. There's more depth in mindgames with fireball wars, but that's the basics of fireball/space control in ST.
"Tell me a time when any good Sagat player "regardless" of race doesn't utilize Tiger Shots in ST to position and dominate with Sagat, then come back and tell me otherwise." O Sagat is soft banned in Japan. The majority of the american players use O Sagat, they just wanted it to be easier to beat the Japanese because there's no other way they can do it.
@thejunkmanlives YES OF COURSE WITHOUT A DOUBT I WAS AWARE OF THE CLOCK WHILE I WAS WATCHING. it did not surprise me for a tenth of a second. heres something that might blow your mind: i can estimate about when a dizzy will happen in sf4 and cvs2 without any numerical gauge. i can also estimate when the stun counter will reset itself. i learned these things from experience against tough players, where its extremely beneficial to know whether or not the next hit/poke will result in a won round.
it would be really difficult to try and go against the low tiger shots especially how john choi play's his Sagat in a tournament, but Kurahashi made it look so smooth & easy. EPIC
i doubt he didn't realize that time was running out: he wanted to see if kurahashi would crack under the pressure and do something to get out of the spam. kurahashi knew he could sit out the rest of the match so all he had to watch out for was a throw. choi knew he was waiting to be thrown, so he thought he could tiger knee-> tiger uppercut to punish a tech. wrong choice, mindgame goes to kurahashi
For those who dont know the reason why Watson could beat Tomo's guile with Ryu in HF is the fact that Guile in HF has 5 frames added recovery after throwing a sonic boom compared to CE....thats almost as bad as ryu, in other words ryu can jump in for free when guile does a sonic boom. In addition to this problem with the 5 added frames after a sonic boom, guile can't back hand after absorbing fire balls like he could in CE either. So that being said Mike made Tomo switch to ryu
Good lord. I think this is the most Tiger spam I've ever seen from Choi. Then again I haven't watched alot of his other vids besides the one where Daigo's Boxer tore him a new one.
@thejunkmanlives an experienced player is ALWAYS aware of how much time is left. all it takes is losing to time over once or twice against good players and then you wouldnt forget either. you should have a higher standard for yourself. just because the clock is the last thing YOU think about, doesnt mean you should generalize it to everyone. timer knowledge is a basic idea for experienced players. no one in the arcade is surprised when the timer gets to zero. everyone knows when its gonna happen
And the sad thing is, Choi almost beat Kurahashi here, and even though Choi is a good player, Kurahashi is many levels above him, both in execution, awareness, creativity and reading of the opponent.
US>>>Japan in SFA2. Maybe you don't remember, however Valle went to Japan at the height of Alpha2 and completely destroyed everyone there. It wasn't even a fair fight, Valle's A2 Ryu CC Valle combo was TOO GOOD. The only guy who could contend with Valle at the time of A2's peak was Choi Boi.
From what I saw in the web about Tomo he was and would still be number 1 in Hyper Fighting, now if he continues playing ST like he did in HF I´m sure he would be more than top 5. Like the pro´s said even after ST was released: there was never anyone so dominating in SF2 series like Tomo.
Well I wouldn't use one example of Daigo using O Sagat to counter what I said, because what I said was a general statement about the Japanese and it applies the majority of the time. Also I think Tomo and Jeff would actually do worse than these 2nd generation players did against Kurahashi.
@kornymunky The only reason why im saying this is because jeff schaefer was able to beat daigo many times and he had retired from street fighter 10 years ago. Jeff never beat Tomo in WW, CE, HF or Super. But he was able to beat Daigo at AE in 2004.
Kuni said either of what you guys have said. What Kuni said was that there were maybe five top players that could keep up with Tomo. He wasn't sure if any of them could beat Tomo or be considered better. Since Tachikawa was considered the best in Japan most people were still unsure if he was even that good at the time. LA Akira was even one of the more mediocre players at the time who did very well in Japan during the early 90s. Japanese didnt really become great until Super Turbo years later
@sakura4994 ur not geting it. In sf2 the clock is a factor but theres not alot of instances where ur just siting there doin nothing(like this match) where as in sf4 matchs that are decided by time have points in the match where nothing is happening .
It may look a little boring. But playing against O. Sagat will help your ST game trust me. You really have to learn to close space and find creative ways to get in against an O. Sagat player. I played against DSP O. Sagat at Final Round, at least I think it was DSP. It was really fun to try to get in on him. As a guile player it's one of my favorite matchups even if it's a little loopsided in O. Sagat's favor.
Look at Guile close that distance despite being mobbed by Tiger Shots. The upside-down kicks that he used to dodge the low Tiger Shot and close the distance was incredible!
@guayaba209 played some turbo yesterday and while ur in the middle of the action the clock is the last thing u think about. U never get a point where ur just siting there, sf4 matchs are alot slower paced.
Yeah I saw those but Daigo was using characters like Bison who I know isn't his best character, they were just playing Casuals, Daigo loses to a lot of people in casuals that he beats regularly in tournaments.
@illasduck I guess I can't really expect much variety in a fight between the best zoners in the game. Btw I watched his fight against Shooting D which impressed me greatly (mindgamez all day) so that changes my scrubby opinion.
Emilll, please, I understand O. Sagat is soft banned, however please don't argue this, it's absolutely ridiculous. If you noticed Daigo even used O. Sagat up against Kunai when he was Zangief in ST...so the notion of you riding the japanese players is funny. Also, Choi is 2nd Gen, meaning SFII wasn't his game Alpha2 was (Remember, US>>>Japan in A2). However if Kurahashi "had" played our true 1st Gen SFII players, it'd be completely different story...Tomo, and Jeff>>>ALL.
@dxmakina where u aware of the clock when u were watchin? no. also im sure the clock only becomes a major factor until it clicks down to 20 seconds or if the guy is seriously goin for a time victory.
why are there so many complaints about the way certain characters are played? why do you want to discourage people from using certain strategies or characters? is the game too hard for you if those strategies/characters are used? it also seems like only people at the casual or lower level complain about "cheap and dishonorable" play too- you almost never hear it at the top level. hmm, i wonder why.
lts a shame to call your self pro and loose this match up.i mean john choi,yes i know kurahashi along with muteki are the best guiles in st,but this match is a nightmare for guile.well done legend kurahashi
@@reversetriangle 99.99% is a 10 - 0 match. You're telling me that fight is 10 - 0? That makes it the most lopsided fight in the whole game. Not even Chun/Honda or Honda/Gief or Cammy/T.Hawk are 10 - 0.
It's not like Japanese Ryu players don't spam the crap out of things when possible -- or two japanese Guile players don't throw sonic booms EVERY MOMENT OF EVERY DAY. O.Sagat is boring, it has nothing to do with Choi or American players.
Rofl, are you serious? Since when does Japanese players fall off the "not using OPed" characters before? Should I start ramping about how in SBO2006 or what was it that 234089234908 people were riding CE. Dictator to try and get to the top? Should we talk about CvS2 Blanka? My goodness, ALL of those guys are 10x worse then O. Sagat, and so what if US players pick O. Sagat, you want to put Japanese players on a pedestal simply because they soft ban O. Sag, get real man. That's a lol excuse.
Also, guys like Tomo or Jeff would destroy players like Kurahashi, remember now, Jeff dominated Daigo back in 04 in AE...and this is Jeff 10+ yrs retired, and also the fact he wasn't used to the speed as well. Watch Daigo use CE. Sagat and get man handled by Jeff's CE. Guile, now imagine a in his prime Jeff. Even Kuni who came from Japan at the time of Tomo Ohira stated that Tomo would have dominated Japan if he would have went to play over there. So even Kuni vouches for Tomo's abilities.
There's an immense amount of patience on display here.
One of the most legendary ST matches ever. On paper, there is no way Guile should win this fight.
O sagat is OP as hell, well done kuharashi
@neogeomaster3027borbidden = Boring and forbidden. 😂
"Hm. There's one second left in the match. Maybe I should try mixing it up now..."
It's been 20 years, and Choi has yet to match his tiger output from this match.
this match is a 8-2 in favor of sagat and kurahashi handle it like it was 5-5,a great presentation of japan players caliber of knowing how to play the game
bro what
cammy sagat is 8-2
you have no idea what a true 8-2 is if you think this is a 8-2
Thank you SO much for uploading this. I've been looking for this match. This is the very reason I started ST. This is great reference material.
This was some awesome defensive and zoning skills shown here by kurahashi !
The 23 tiger shots at the end was CASH MONEY 🥵🥵. Actually dangerous af in those last seconds for Kurahashi, Choi was on that shit.
tiger tiger tiger tiger
I love how in the final round time is running out for Choi's tiger spams, and just when he probably realizes it, he ends up losing the match
its great to see how Kurahashi really worked his guile, unlike Mr Tiger shot
VERY well deserved win
@yyy12232 It's the single greatest tool for controlling both space and your opponent in ST and O. Sagat has the best fireball game out of every character. If he throws a fireball at you he is forcing you to either A) take chip B) jump (which can be punished) or C) make you throw a boom, which you can't do twice in a row, leaving you to choose from A or B when he throws the second fireball. There's more depth in mindgames with fireball wars, but that's the basics of fireball/space control in ST.
nice victory...i respect it more everytime I watch it. Took precision to play Guile that well.
"Tell me a time when any good Sagat player "regardless" of race doesn't utilize Tiger Shots in ST to position and dominate with Sagat, then come back and tell me otherwise."
O Sagat is soft banned in Japan. The majority of the american players use O Sagat, they just wanted it to be easier to beat the Japanese because there's no other way they can do it.
most top american players eiter pick O. Sagat, Boxer, Claw or Dhalsim (the latter being less commonly used).
Winning by time over is skill, a lot of patience and extremely good judgement...if it is part of the game, it is part of the game...
@thejunkmanlives YES OF COURSE WITHOUT A DOUBT I WAS AWARE OF THE CLOCK WHILE I WAS WATCHING. it did not surprise me for a tenth of a second. heres something that might blow your mind: i can estimate about when a dizzy will happen in sf4 and cvs2 without any numerical gauge. i can also estimate when the stun counter will reset itself. i learned these things from experience against tough players, where its extremely beneficial to know whether or not the next hit/poke will result in a won round.
Fireballs galore! This Sagar player didn't know you could jump 🤯
it would be really difficult to try and go against the low tiger shots especially how john choi play's his Sagat in a tournament, but Kurahashi made it look so smooth & easy. EPIC
i doubt he didn't realize that time was running out: he wanted to see if kurahashi would crack under the pressure and do something to get out of the spam. kurahashi knew he could sit out the rest of the match so all he had to watch out for was a throw. choi knew he was waiting to be thrown, so he thought he could tiger knee-> tiger uppercut to punish a tech. wrong choice, mindgame goes to kurahashi
探して、見に来て正解でした。素晴らしい試合。
For those who dont know the reason why Watson could beat Tomo's guile with Ryu in HF is the fact that Guile in HF has 5 frames added recovery after throwing a sonic boom compared to CE....thats almost as bad as ryu, in other words ryu can jump in for free when guile does a sonic boom. In addition to this problem with the 5 added frames after a sonic boom, guile can't back hand after absorbing fire balls like he could in CE either. So that being said Mike made Tomo switch to ryu
Good lord. I think this is the most Tiger spam I've ever seen from Choi. Then again I haven't watched alot of his other vids besides the one where Daigo's Boxer tore him a new one.
At 1:26, what's going on there? Is guile F+MK over a fireball, or is the fireball appearing behind him?
@thejunkmanlives an experienced player is ALWAYS aware of how much time is left. all it takes is losing to time over once or twice against good players and then you wouldnt forget either. you should have a higher standard for yourself. just because the clock is the last thing YOU think about, doesnt mean you should generalize it to everyone. timer knowledge is a basic idea for experienced players. no one in the arcade is surprised when the timer gets to zero. everyone knows when its gonna happen
a little disghusted that tiger shot spam is a master technique...to me its a rookies gameplan and the essence of a master player is variety.
O.Sagat isn't so banned anymore, that's for sure. Yondaime is a Japanese player that uses him almost exclusively, for instance.
what a satisfying way for him to lose.
And the sad thing is, Choi almost beat Kurahashi here, and even though Choi is a good player, Kurahashi is many levels above him, both in execution, awareness, creativity and reading of the opponent.
I doubt it would be easy, remember, Mike Watson was 2nd in the US when Tomo was in his Prime and Daigo has beaten Watson a number of times.
US>>>Japan in SFA2.
Maybe you don't remember, however Valle went to Japan at the height of Alpha2 and completely destroyed everyone there.
It wasn't even a fair fight, Valle's A2 Ryu CC Valle combo was TOO GOOD. The only guy who could contend with Valle at the time of A2's peak was Choi Boi.
From what I saw in the web about Tomo he was and would still be number 1 in Hyper Fighting, now if he continues playing ST like he did in HF I´m sure he would be more than top 5.
Like the pro´s said even after ST was released: there was never anyone so dominating in SF2 series like Tomo.
Well I wouldn't use one example of Daigo using O Sagat to counter what I said, because what I said was a general statement about the Japanese and it applies the majority of the time.
Also I think Tomo and Jeff would actually do worse than these 2nd generation players did against Kurahashi.
wow whered you get that statistic??
legendary kurahashi
@kornymunky
The only reason why im saying this is because jeff schaefer was able to beat daigo many times and he had retired from street fighter 10 years ago. Jeff never beat Tomo in WW, CE, HF or Super. But he was able to beat Daigo at AE in 2004.
Kuni said either of what you guys have said. What Kuni said was that there were maybe five top players that could keep up with Tomo. He wasn't sure if any of them could beat Tomo or be considered better. Since Tachikawa was considered the best in Japan most people were still unsure if he was even that good at the time. LA Akira was even one of the more mediocre players at the time who did very well in Japan during the early 90s. Japanese didnt really become great until Super Turbo years later
why??
Legendary.
@sakura4994 ur not geting it. In sf2 the clock is a factor but theres not alot of instances where ur just siting there doin nothing(like this match) where as in sf4 matchs that are decided by time have points in the match where nothing is happening .
@thejunkmanlives
Nah, actually good players are aware of time, health and super meter as well as positioning.
@thejunkmanlives i think everyone is always aware of the clock.
guayaba I agree.
It may look a little boring. But playing against O. Sagat will help your ST game trust me. You really have to learn to close space and find creative ways to get in against an O. Sagat player. I played against DSP O. Sagat at Final Round, at least I think it was DSP. It was really fun to try to get in on him. As a guile player it's one of my favorite matchups even if it's a little loopsided in O. Sagat's favor.
Hummm.... needs more tigers......
I never get tired of watching Choi lose.
I guess Choi was not your boy 10 years ago
@@lewissteward65 Not him, nor any Sagat player of any year past or future.
@@JayJayYUP imo Vega players are worse
@@pandabearmadness6263 Yeah I've seen 'em as well. Now that you mention it. I can't decide what's worse.
can someone please link me any old footage of the original Tomo playing I hear he was legendary.
Look at Guile close that distance despite being mobbed by Tiger Shots. The upside-down kicks that he used to dodge the low Tiger Shot and close the distance was incredible!
He didn't use a single upside-down kick.
Reminds me of the old arcade machines I used to play on. Lovely shit crt screen
@guayaba209 played some turbo yesterday and while ur in the middle of the action the clock is the last thing u think about. U never get a point where ur just siting there, sf4 matchs are alot slower paced.
KURAHASHI ♥
Yeah I saw those but Daigo was using characters like Bison who I know isn't his best character, they were just playing Casuals, Daigo loses to a lot of people in casuals that he beats regularly in tournaments.
@illasduck I guess I can't really expect much variety in a fight between the best zoners in the game. Btw I watched his fight against Shooting D which impressed me greatly (mindgamez all day) so that changes my scrubby opinion.
Emilll, please, I understand O. Sagat is soft banned, however please don't argue this, it's absolutely ridiculous. If you noticed Daigo even used O. Sagat up against Kunai when he was Zangief in ST...so the notion of you riding the japanese players is funny.
Also, Choi is 2nd Gen, meaning SFII wasn't his game Alpha2 was (Remember, US>>>Japan in A2).
However if Kurahashi "had" played our true 1st Gen SFII players, it'd be completely different story...Tomo, and Jeff>>>ALL.
Tomo hasn't played Daigo, nice try.
@dxmakina where u aware of the clock when u were watchin? no. also im sure the clock only becomes a major factor until it clicks down to 20 seconds or if the guy is seriously goin for a time victory.
So epic.
U gotta love how during the whole match ur not aware of the clock until it runs out. I wish sf4 was like that.
why are there so many complaints about the way certain characters are played? why do you want to discourage people from using certain strategies or characters? is the game too hard for you if those strategies/characters are used?
it also seems like only people at the casual or lower level complain about "cheap and dishonorable" play too- you almost never hear it at the top level. hmm, i wonder why.
I don't see what makes this Sagat player so good. You can just flowchart all day it seems.
Everyone knows that Muteki is a beast but what about that dude from the 201, I hear his Guile is crazy
MrBenFamous This guy was not Muteki Guile, but Kurahashi.
Yes yes I agree.
wow watching choi spam tiger shots is pretty boring imo
クラハシさん強い！
when someone with a fiat win in a race someone with a ferrari
heh.
good attempt by saget but gule out played his tigers
By no means am I pro, but what's so good about spamming fireballs? I felt like punching Choi after watching that fight :P
someone please count how many times sagat threw fireballs. my guess is 46
Also US is not better than Japan in SFA2.
Guile wins
Yes, he did... What does round time have to do with anything? A win is a win especially against o.sagat. GTFO >
lts a shame to call your self pro and loose this match up.i mean john choi,yes i know kurahashi along with muteki are the best guiles in st,but this match is a nightmare for guile.well done legend kurahashi
*TIGER*
haha timeout, eat that choi!
bahaha john choi got owned
Match went down to the wire. How is that getting owned?
@@MiloDC replying 12 years later and you must understand that Sagat in ST vs Guile is 99.99% win rate for Sagat...
@@reversetriangle 99.99% is a 10 - 0 match. You're telling me that fight is 10 - 0? That makes it the most lopsided fight in the whole game. Not even Chun/Honda or Honda/Gief or Cammy/T.Hawk are 10 - 0.
@@MiloDC nub
SonicBTiger Tiger Tiger
*neither
very nice turtling/zoning
It's not like Japanese Ryu players don't spam the crap out of things when possible -- or two japanese Guile players don't throw sonic booms EVERY MOMENT OF EVERY DAY. O.Sagat is boring, it has nothing to do with Choi or American players.
Much respect to Muteki Guile for great patience!
rsaran1288 That was not Muteki Guile, but Kurahashi.
Rofl, are you serious? Since when does Japanese players fall off the "not using OPed" characters before?
Should I start ramping about how in SBO2006 or what was it that 234089234908 people were riding CE. Dictator to try and get to the top?
Should we talk about CvS2 Blanka? My goodness, ALL of those guys are 10x worse then O. Sagat, and so what if US players pick O. Sagat, you want to put Japanese players on a pedestal simply because they soft ban O. Sag, get real man.
That's a lol excuse.
cheeeeseeeeeeeeed out
USA
nappyNIGHTMARES sagat would have a easy time with this guile.
Also, guys like Tomo or Jeff would destroy players like Kurahashi, remember now, Jeff dominated Daigo back in 04 in AE...and this is Jeff 10+ yrs retired, and also the fact he wasn't used to the speed as well. Watch Daigo use CE. Sagat and get man handled by Jeff's CE. Guile, now imagine a in his prime Jeff.
Even Kuni who came from Japan at the time of Tomo Ohira stated that Tomo would have dominated Japan if he would have went to play over there. So even Kuni vouches for Tomo's abilities.
Spammer lost
@kornymunky
although tomo has never played daigo i believe tomo could beat daigo easily.
Lol, all Guile did was spam, right guys!?
/noob