This makes a lot of sense. My remaining question is why doesn't the red bumper explode for the first person that hits it? I get the game not knowing exactly where a bumper is due to lag for the other bumper types, blue orange and grey, but the red ones are still supposed to go boom boom on initial contact. So it doesn't fully explain why the red ones can be touched by me sometimes and by others sometimes. I doubt it is because the red ones are running into greys and blues a lot, because of how often the collision with the red for the player is not fatal or damaging, compared to how often bumpers hit each other, which has to be much rarer.
The only explanation I can come up with is that the position of the Red Bumper in your game and the position of the player who hit it are not "true". The Red might have been somewhere else on their screen, or the player wasn't actually where they are displayed in your game. When I play with streamers, I can see how my position is not where it's supposed to be. This is very apparent whenever I attack a player (or use a Shortcut jump). I hit in my game, but sometimes miss in theirs. There's times where the hits count, times where they don't at all and sometimes where they count with a delay due to the rollback netcode and individual player latency (that's when homing attacks occur). The game's prediction doesn't match reality (sometimes it does), and so multiple realities get created, until the game tries to catch up (with and without success). On top of that data gets lost, there is lots of players on the field, and each bump and collision will affect the players and their respective position.
this game functions on rollback net code i think and so when nintendo asks us to be aggressive against other machines we can but sometimes their location is unknown to us because they get rolled back. when i spin into someone it shows a very dramatic reaction on my side but it's probably not so dramatic for the player receiving the spin
Yep And the distance between players and how long it takes for information/data to be sent to the server/back to clients adds to that. I'm from germany and when I play against players from Asia the lags for me and them are heavier. It's noticeable in every fight. A head to head comparison would make that more apparent
Finally someone does a video on this!!! Let’s go, I believe the phantom touches are similar symptoms to when you bump another player and it looks like they are flying, probably net desync?
Yeah, kinda like what happens when you try to bump into Greys multiple times when you want to knock them out. They snap back into position. And I believe that's what happens when those Reds get in contact with another player or Bumper. Desync, and a short amount of time the game needs to adjust and sync the position, which results in collisions without consequences
Hey, I cameo at 1:27. Sick. Also love your videos explaining a lot of things about this game lol. I was always curious as to why this randomly happened.
It seems like the game gets confused bc it shows someone else hitting it (due to lag) and thinks it should have blown up, but it doesn't bc the game never receives the information that someone else hit it (since they didn't really hit it), but during that time when it thinks it should have blown up, it can't be hit again
Oh hey, that's me! How funny it looks like I hit the bumper dead on. Also wow, you make it look like you have mastered the technique because it always throws me off every time it happens to me.
It looks weird seeing that, when it actually did not happen, right? This is rather a collection of scenarios in which the phenomenon occured. It was much later when I noticed that you can push other players or Bumpers into the Reds on purpose to "deactivate" them. In some scenes I waited for it to happen, but a lot of times it was just pure coincidence that I was in the right spot at the right time. So I would definitely not say that I mastered it. But it's something that can be learned
We think that the game can't process and display the actual position and health state of Bumpers in time, which is why it only happens after a Bumper was touched just a brief moment ago. Take a usual bumping of a Grey Bumper as an example. If you hit or drag it with you, the game needs a moment to set the position of the Bumper back. The Grey snaps back, which can make it harder to destroy it. I think the time it takes for the Bumper to snap back is similar to the time the Reds take to get back in true collision position (setting a global position for every player) after they were hit by a player or Bumper. If you hit it in that time frame, you won't have a fatal collision
![F-ZERO 99 - How to perform SUPER SKIPS! [Ultra Shortcuts in FZ99?!] (old)](/img/n.gif)
Came for the information, stayed for the music. FFVIII
This makes a lot of sense. My remaining question is why doesn't the red bumper explode for the first person that hits it? I get the game not knowing exactly where a bumper is due to lag for the other bumper types, blue orange and grey, but the red ones are still supposed to go boom boom on initial contact. So it doesn't fully explain why the red ones can be touched by me sometimes and by others sometimes. I doubt it is because the red ones are running into greys and blues a lot, because of how often the collision with the red for the player is not fatal or damaging, compared to how often bumpers hit each other, which has to be much rarer.
The only explanation I can come up with is that the position of the Red Bumper in your game and the position of the player who hit it are not "true". The Red might have been somewhere else on their screen, or the player wasn't actually where they are displayed in your game.
When I play with streamers, I can see how my position is not where it's supposed to be. This is very apparent whenever I attack a player (or use a Shortcut jump). I hit in my game, but sometimes miss in theirs. There's times where the hits count, times where they don't at all and sometimes where they count with a delay due to the rollback netcode and individual player latency (that's when homing attacks occur). The game's prediction doesn't match reality (sometimes it does), and so multiple realities get created, until the game tries to catch up (with and without success). On top of that data gets lost, there is lots of players on the field, and each bump and collision will affect the players and their respective position.
this game functions on rollback net code i think and so when nintendo asks us to be aggressive against other machines we can but sometimes their location is unknown to us because they get rolled back. when i spin into someone it shows a very dramatic reaction on my side but it's probably not so dramatic for the player receiving the spin
Yep
And the distance between players and how long it takes for information/data to be sent to the server/back to clients adds to that. I'm from germany and when I play against players from Asia the lags for me and them are heavier. It's noticeable in every fight.
A head to head comparison would make that more apparent
Finally someone does a video on this!!! Let’s go, I believe the phantom touches are similar symptoms to when you bump another player and it looks like they are flying, probably net desync?
Yeah, kinda like what happens when you try to bump into Greys multiple times when you want to knock them out. They snap back into position. And I believe that's what happens when those Reds get in contact with another player or Bumper. Desync, and a short amount of time the game needs to adjust and sync the position, which results in collisions without consequences
Hey, I cameo at 1:27. Sick. Also love your videos explaining a lot of things about this game lol. I was always curious as to why this randomly happened.
Hey ImpLoader! I have had lots of great races with you!
Thank you :) I'm glad to be helpful here and there
It seems like the game gets confused bc it shows someone else hitting it (due to lag) and thinks it should have blown up, but it doesn't bc the game never receives the information that someone else hit it (since they didn't really hit it), but during that time when it thinks it should have blown up, it can't be hit again
Oh hey, that's me! How funny it looks like I hit the bumper dead on. Also wow, you make it look like you have mastered the technique because it always throws me off every time it happens to me.
It looks weird seeing that, when it actually did not happen, right?
This is rather a collection of scenarios in which the phenomenon occured. It was much later when I noticed that you can push other players or Bumpers into the Reds on purpose to "deactivate" them. In some scenes I waited for it to happen, but a lot of times it was just pure coincidence that I was in the right spot at the right time. So I would definitely not say that I mastered it. But it's something that can be learned
Simple question - how is that possible?
We think that the game can't process and display the actual position and health state of Bumpers in time, which is why it only happens after a Bumper was touched just a brief moment ago.
Take a usual bumping of a Grey Bumper as an example. If you hit or drag it with you, the game needs a moment to set the position of the Bumper back. The Grey snaps back, which can make it harder to destroy it. I think the time it takes for the Bumper to snap back is similar to the time the Reds take to get back in true collision position (setting a global position for every player) after they were hit by a player or Bumper. If you hit it in that time frame, you won't have a fatal collision
Just... HOW
Desync, and the nature of the Rollback Netcode lead to interesting results 😮