Lennox Package unit economizer
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ส.ค. 2018
- This was a Lennox package unit that had a malfunctioning economizer. I found that the actuator was bad and the board was never programmed properly. I corrected the problems and also setup all other ac economizers.
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OCP ya you know me. You down with OCP? Lol. Your best video yet. Awesome Chris 👍👍
Thanks Dave! Keep an eye out I just recorded an HVAC school podcast with Bryan Orr on reach in temperature controls this morning, but I dont know when he will air it.
HVACR VIDEOS I’m subbed on that pod cast
Lol exactly what came to my mind!
I’ve been in the trade for 30 years and want to thank you for being thorough and a professional!! I wish there were more technicians like you!!
Terrific explanation of the Economizer operation and Prodigy board. I find it amazing that the customer paid for these decent RTU's and they were never right.
man you should come out to my work. 70k sq ft building, chilled water system, around 20+ air handlers, 6 non op, several temp sensor false readings so handlers are manually over ridden, economizers might as well be non existent. building was just contracted, but to save money they kept the original ibex hvac from back when i was a toddler and tried to morph everything into one climatec setup. its a nightmare. condensate floods are a monthly thing.
I just found your channel a few days ago and subscribed. I am not an HVAC tech but i really enjoy your manner of presentation and technical explanations. You have a gift for this work as well as great ability to make interesting video of the work you do. You also seem like a great human being.
So they never tighten the cam to the damper shaft wow! Damper was wide open I know That compressor was working overtime good catch man I always learn something new and problems to look out for !
Thanks bud
Great work. Love how thoroughly you go thru your stores and take care to do things properly
Its interesting to see how much AC is needed in California- I read somewhere that AC is what makes a lot of the world livable. I bought my first AC unit a couple of years ago and this year ran it twice over the summer and we are told we had a hot summer. The other useful thing I bought was a honeywell air cleaner which is really effective in getting dust and gunk out of the air.
As someone who's just started as a technician in this industry, I love watching your helpful videos on troubleshooting etc. Keep up the good work!
Great to see you take the time and do the job right.....again..I see alot of those board bypasses here in my town. Shotty "I'll just do enough to get you by for now" type work that never gets the 2nd call back to correct the initial issue from the start.
Been doing residential service for 7 years in northern California. Just moved to Milwaukee to do commercial service, just wanted to let you know I learned a ton watching ur vids. Hope u keep em coming
I have died and gone to HVAC heaven. This is what I'm talking about with the make up air running like you said and supplying fresh air to the dining room, etc etc.. balance, building automation, setting up the RTU... Details.. again, this is the level of detail I would go to to make things run efficiently, properly...I remember noticing positive and negative pressure when I was in junior high in about grade 7. I studied the HVAC in that school, then my high school, when I should've been paying attention. I remember my first ventilation class in college and the teacher taught us what I'd crudely figured out in high school. I regret not sticking with this. ...thanks for this video!
Great video on enthalpy control wiring. Dampers on those loosen, had one at Disability Center, went to do maintenance and found loose, I know they were tight.
I’m 1 year in Service & I really appreciate your videos, thank you very much & keep up the great work. ✌🏻
I've been an NEBB certified air balance tech for 25 years. If 20% of service technicians had your experience and knowledge what a wonderful world it could be. Nice work... I just subscribed
Thanks bud, id love to get a nebb cert, but I just can't justify the expense.......
I’m dealing with same challenge here in Orlando. Thanks for your videos!! Respect!
Nice informative video, my favorite part was seeing the "tech" note left on the door. Board...... Yeah they knew the problem but didn't bother to fix it, gotta love that.
Your videos have helped me alot working in hvac.
Chris, I just found your channel a few days ago; I've subscribed and clicked on the bell. I am much enjoying your videos. I am a part time HVAC instructor, where I teach psychrometrics and residential HVAC system design. I've also been in HVAC related work (chillers, boilers, VAVs, etc), along with facilities management and EMS, for ~ 40 years. I find your thoroughness and careful way of approaching your work to be refreshing. I told my students the other evening about your channel and that I highly recommend it.
I'm also not a certified air balancing person, but that hasn't stopped me from working on air balance problems in buildings I've managed over the years. I found a lot of it can be done with a hand held digital manometer, set to read pascals or inches of water column. For a restaurant I would think the pressure order would be dining room positive to kitchen and restrooms, kitchen positive to outdoors. The kitchens and restrooms are assumed to have steady exhaust, and as long as the RTUs don't have variable speed blowers, adjusting the fresh air dampers shouldn't be too tricky.
Even at my longevity in this trade I'm still learning fresh things all of the time. I also once worked HVAC in Southern California (San Diego) so I know what being in a service truck out there is like. It's kind of like a flashback for me when I watch your videos.
Keep up the great work!!
Thanks so much for watching and for the nice words Cameron!
Never thought about air balance (not in the trade just like the video's and troubleshooting) explains why some are so hard to open some to easy and the others you just don't notice. Worked for a food handling company (custom made pizza's) and they had sliding doors to the 3 chillers, 1 was always hard to open and easy way was to stick a blunt object into the seal one hiss no problems opening it. As a person who's on the other end of the products I find your videos and troubleshooting an awesome experience. I guess that's what the difference between a cowboy and a professional. Your apprentices must love you for not only the clear way you go through things but they also have video to check on, makes their life's easier. Thank you for the great commentary.
nice videos pls continue these videos make me strive for perfection in the hvac field were in.
Everywhere I go economizers dont work because the average tech doesnt know how they work inorder to fix them. I was just at a building where they spent hundreds of thousands on HRUs and they all had the ERVs disabled and OA dampers closed, the costumer had no clue!
Capitol Refrigeration,Heating,and Cooling I lived that for 10 years. The company I worked for would steel accounts from it.
100% on the money!!! Their not that difficult to work on but most people hardly try, just simply bypass Y1 and Y2. I understand that some of the logic in units isn’t necessarily user friendly but it doesn’t take much time to learn about it. Essentially everyone has a computer in their pocket with a wealth of information. Sure there’s instances where an economizer isn’t always beneficial for specific circumstances but I strongly believe it tends to be due from a lack of understanding from the tech. I wish people would take pride in their work.
Cody Thompson very few people take pride from what I noticed. I always say that what ever I dont know goggle does! Seems like a lot of people dont want to look stuff up
Capitol Refrigeration,Heating,and Cooling Absolutely right! It dumbfounds me to see those that just get through the day but wonder why they make what they make. If you take pride in your work, and learn then the money will be there. I guess that’s why I’m making more or similar wages as of those over twice my age at 23. The sky is the limit within this trade and while it’s hard work at times, it’s rewarding. It’s nice to know that we make a difference out there. Nothing more rewarding than getting a process chiller up and running that a plant depends on to produce a product.
Cody Thompson If you put the time in and figure problems out instead of saying" I never worked on this,I need someone to show me how to fix it"you will make a lot of money. I work with a bunch of guys that all make well over six figures with very little overtime because learned how to fix things no one else want to!
You sir are reputable and reliable! However whoever proceeded were not. I deeply admire how you corrected the issue without lying to your customers!
Love Lennox stuff. Great video!! Unit was probly jumped because the economizer was wide open. Keep up the great work
Thank you from a TAB guy. This helps alot.
increible chris.......donde acumulas tanta informacion.....sos un genio. Saludos desde Argentina
It;s getting to the point that I give you a thumps up before I watch the video.
great job and even better info . thanks.
I have no clue what's going on. I never actually stopped to think about how complex and sophisticated air units could be. Very interesting stuff.
thanks for watching bud!
Just a side note. Positive pressure inside house is right in warm climate, at cold climate you want slight negative pressure. Here in Finland temperature difference between outside and inside can be over 50 C (about 120-130 F). You do not want positive pressure at that situation.
I just use a manometer to check differential across the door. Nice work on the units.
Great find. I have several McDonalds with these same lennox units.... Ill be sure to check them this spring before summer.
I attended a training last week that informed us 65-75% of economizers are not functioning properly. Thank you for doing things the right way and sharing with us your knowledge and experience.
I would argue that more than 75% are not hooked up correctly, I will be going live on TH-cam this evening 5/20/19 @5:PM (pacific time) to discuss my most recent uploads and answer questions from emails and the chat, come on over and check it out if you can th-cam.com/video/-4N3ueCvJOY/w-d-xo.html
@@HVACRVIDEOS thanks for the invite. I wish I could have been available. I'll definitely check out the recording. Thanks again for all you do.
Man this video just made me understand my AAON Units a little bit better . Although I don't work on them (just PM) It does give me some understanding on how all the Economizer, Heat wheels , de_humidification and Air Make Up units work and you may have solved one of the problems with one of our units. The dampers are wide open on a 96 degree day.But with out the little Watt Master service tool nothing I can do. GREAT VIDEO Man Keep up the great work.
Right on I'm glad I could help a bit, feel free to reach out to me if you have any other questions anytime my email is in my video description
Hi! Sitting here in Sweden, looking at your top notch videos as a new subscriber! It´s interesting looking at how different American HVAC standards are, comparing to our standards here in EU. But very much is the same too! A difference is that we often use heat exchangers in our AHU, where the exhaust air warms up incoming cold air without mixing them both. That saves a lot on the heating bill. Also there are still a lot of old buildings with natural ventilation here, bet that would not work so well in Californian climate?
Great job! It would be worth to add a building pressure monitor (electronic) or magnahelic for service purposes but also for the customer to be aware of any air balancing issues.
Your videos are awesome man! Second year apprentice with Local 250 in Los Angeles. I’ll be a great tech like you one day🤙🏼
Looking at the big picture, thinking out of the box... thanks Chris.
Thanks for watching again!
Your channel has alot of potential.
Little did you know back then.
Never really worked on but a balf dozen rtu's....i know what an economizer is but never heard an explanation of them like this...awesome vid btother!!
thanks for watching, I am going live on TH-cam tonight at 5:00pm pacific time come on over and check it out!
th-cam.com/video/4QHaJ0seBkM/w-d-xo.html
Dude you are a really and i mean really good teacher! AMAZING MAN!
Thanks bud
GREAT VIDEO !!! I see this all the time!!! in NYC
You’re awesome Thank you I really appreciate your hard work to make this possible so we can learn God Bless
There is a restaurant here, just north of the city of Toronto, Canada, and they seriously have negative pressure issues. Customers can barely open the doors. When the HVAC kicks on, things change again...I've kind of wanted to stick my nose in and inquire/comment, for the longest time. I'm sure you'd have a field day there.
man you make this stuff look easy. first day of commercial here and it was kinda rough, put in 13 hours because the 2nd stage compressor wouldnt push refrigerant . after like 10 mins of it making a buzzing type sound it started pushing
drew sounds like it was slugging
your video is very good. learned a lot in a brief period.
Im impressed, most techs probably do the bare minimum to get paid, but you go above and beyond what was required by going to all the different units and making sure they are all working properly
Edit: on the unit with the bypassed board i woukd quote to replace the whole unit, because it they bypassed the whole board its bound to be trashed on the inside
Thank you for all your knowledge. You put in on all your videos and for always trying to do it right...
As soon as you mentioned "outside air requirements," I knew you were out in Dave's area!
Yeah we are down in southern California, and we only run about 20% relative humidity
Thought the dirt on the M2 board was from fingers pressing the buttons but looks like you made a clean spot wiping the menu tree off. Lot of dust in there!
AABC and NEBB Certified here. In my experience, not many start-up personnel actually get lennox units wired up properly. I like to jump y-1 to ocp because that way the O/A is guaranteed to be conditioned as it's pulled in, but it really depends on the sequence of operation laid out by the engineers. Nothing worse than having it stay occupied only to have the units constantly in DEHUM. As far as air balance goes. You want the kitchen to be positive to the outside, and you want the dining room slightly positive to the kitchen.
For the most part, the engineers mess up more than anything. When reviewing submittals and seeing honeywell Jade Economizers, and no occ sensors or thermostats with OCC out, on a standalone building with no BAS.. i yi yi.
Good deal. Love your channel!
So much staff man thank you!
LOL!! Well done!! Glad to see I'm not the only one constantly dropping things cause of my friggin meat hooks!!! Fantastic video!! Not only another example of great field of vision (not getting problem "tunnel vision solving" mentality) and ambition, but the perfect example of how they can lead to not only increased revenue for the bottom line, but make one's self distinct by creating an ora of excellence around one's self and one's own company. A true win-win-win. It doesn't get better than that!
Thanks for the nice words and thanks for watching!!
Believe me. The pleasure's all mine! I'm learning so much watching your work, habits and ethics. I'm an older student going back for an HVACR associates currently, I actually posses a masters in IT but I miss being outside! I really think I'd love doing what you do. I've had some trade experience but not in this field, and I've been learning volumes watching your channel on many levels; technically and ethically. It's the best all around HVACR mindset training I've seen on YT. My pre-knowledge has impressed my instructors, and the way you work is EXACTLY the way I like to do business.
As a little older guy I'm worried about competing with these younger 20 somethings, but it's these types of mindsets that make the old bull/young bull scenario so applicable. In my construction days I always built and remolded homes the way I would have done my own home. No hacking other than temp. work-a-rounds. You're the same kind of guy and I appreciate the hell out of that.
Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge, expertise AND your ethics with us all. The economizer issue is new to me to learn about, but from my industrial experience, I fully understand the importance of pos. pressure. So well done! Thanks again. I've been watching for awhile but not commenting; too busy learning to say much, but I'm here. Appreciating everything you're doing. It's a lot of extra time in production of these videos, but it's greatly appreciated. Probably 1 commenter for every 10-20 grateful viewer like me or more. Thanks!
Nice videos man. Great for learning keep them coming .
I like to use the adhesive pads with the zip ties connected to it. I get them at Home Depot, the adhesive is strong and works great to replace ones you pull out
I use those for other things and yes they do work great!
great H V A C service and great educational video.
Thanks bud!
I think I've said it before, you think a lot like me through your videos, I'm impressed by your work, enjoy your videos!
Thanks bud
good luck from algeria.god bless u
Learning a ton of info from you brother.. I mean insane information. I would pay for this lol.
My favorite service call videos to watch
you are amazing . best videos of all the information keep up the great work and tx for doing this
thanks for watching!
The Prodigy controller will work the best when you apply the 24V from R only, if you use the G terminal the unit will go into morning warm up every time it sends power from G and will cause issues. Just FYI but good video thank you for using Lennox. :)
Lennox Commercial Field Technical Trainer/Consultant III- Brandon Turnbow
I had to rewatch the video to see what you were talking about... this one was from a while ago. So from your comment I'm assuming that when the thermostat energizes the g terminal and my 24 volts is sent to OCP your saying that the unit goes thru a warm up? I did not know that and that's great information, thanks! In my case we run the indoor blower all day long for air balance reasons so we would only have the warm up once a day which shouldn't be a problem right? We dont know what humidity is out here in California so we can safely run the fan all day without the worry of humidity issues... anyways thanks for watching and taking the time to leave a comment!
Nice video man!! I had that same exact issue earlier this week with trane voyager equipment.
Right on thanks for watching!
O man. Amazing video as usual. Thanks
Mad Skills...Slam dunk.... BOSS!
Thank you for sharing!
Great Video! Thanks so much.
That bypass situation looks like an absolute nightmare.
Nice man. Good stuff.
One thing I noticed on the unit with the chopped and joined wires , there looks like there is a module from the fire panel in there ( the beige square box with Notifier on it). Usually for either fan shut down and/or manual control from the fire panel to help with smoke extraction. The camera angles make it hard to see, but it doesn't look like that module is connected, just the loop in/out for the module.
If there is a matrix in place for smoke management using the fans, then that matrix wont work with one ( or more) fans not connected to the fire panel.
You’re awesome brother
I would love to get into commercial. Really need to study more for this
Awesome tech tips......
dang good video thanks for the info
Excellent video man, it really.helped me out. Thank you for the great content.
You're awesome brother! Thanks!
Thanks for watching
Nice job man! 👍🏼🤙🏼🤘🏼✌🏼
Great video.
Great work sir I solute you
Hey man we hvac techs owe you a huge respect! Yiu are one of those rare techs out there. I am trying to fix issue with economizer. Mine is little bit different. Carrier. 5 ton rtu. Economizer would open wide both during cooling and heating modes. Wierd. Unit is brand new. All sensors wired per installation manual. If you have any idea would really appreciate your advice.
Does the unit have the honeywell jade controller?
HVACR VIDEOS The unit is controlled by honewell 8000 programmable thermostat. Checked wiring and installers set up. The only thing that was field installed is enthalpy and return air temp sensors. Also found out that economizer before installed was left on the top of the unit under a heavy rain over the weekend before installers came back. For now I disconnected economizer and planning to order economizer controller and two sensors. Hope I am on the right track. I have seen H. Jade condrollers couple times, those things really freak me out)) It will be heplful if you make some videos on those too. Thanks for your reply and ofcourse for very informative videos. Your channel has a potential to become a very important resource for not only new techs but also those who are long enough in the field but have not dealt much with newer ewuipment and controlls. Good luck!
Not surprised I worked in a military base and I seen stuff like this don't seem to understand who passes the final inspection when building are handed over after new construction. I have seen buildings with 100 vav boxes and none were properly balanced I seen problems from a flow issues to ac unit not properly wired to EMS to chiller under sized and geothermal units tripping on high head pressure due to not enough wells dough in
Great job !
I haven't see those metal mesh filters, (although smaller) since they used them on old range hoods
Great job
Awesome video
Thanks for sharing
I have found several of the new design L series to have loose clamps on the econ actuators. Maybe they ran out of 3mm Allen wrenches....
Damn brotha you're very knowledgeable! Keep up the great work. How long have you been out in the field?
Thanks man, I have been officially doing this since 2002.
Great info!
Thanks for watching!
This dude is legit!
Great video !!!
👍👍nice job
Thanks!!
Those solid state enthalpy sensors are a pain, especially on the coast. Salt air, and PC boards don’t mix. Just replace it with a dry bulb stat.
Awesome video man!
Thanks bud
@@HVACRVIDEOS if I said your not welcome what would your response be (smartass voice) 😂🤣
Bypassing that board is gangster..only like 4 wires though..I've done it in a pinch to get them by until I come back
This is the best channel
Thank you so very much for the nice words!
HVACR VIDEOS no worries. I am a young service tech with only 3 years commercial exp and I watch a video of yours every day I come home and it’s helped me out a lot. Thank you so much for the detail. You’re a good teacher.
What is enthalpy? It is a combination of humidity and temperature or sensible and latent heat. If outside air is 60F and 90% humidity you would not want to put that air into building, although the air would be heated up and humidity would drop, but it has to be reasonable enough to be comfortable, this is what enthalpy sensor and controls do, they make sure outdoor air is cool and dry enough to shut down compressor and economize the system to put outdoor air in building comfortably, or put very little air in if outdoor air is not a benefit. Same for heating too.
Question:
How do you clean the air fresh coming grill and blades filters. I m talking about the blades wich turns where the air fresh get in
That board was hideous. I wonder if they even burned off the heat exchangers when installed. They definitely need another service company!
Did you ever remove the Y1-Y2 jumper on the first unit?
Those made economizer enthalpy sensors are awful when the manufacturer used the top S-bus terminals. The top terminal pins rot out and break off in the Molex plug all the time. I see it when they are 3 years old, when I replace them I always use the side S-bus with the screw down connector terminal that comes with them.People just throw it out and plug in the top Molex plug but it's a bad design much more reliable with the side S-bus connection. Just my opinion