Welding Aluminum Bicycle Frames
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 มิ.ย. 2016
- This video shows the details of how a high-end aluminum bicycle frame is fabricated and welded.
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I used to weld aluminum bike frame parts for Trek bikes when they had a plant in Chehalis WA. Was originally Kleine bikes till Trek bought them out. We used tig welding with argon gas. the parts had to be meticulously clean to get best results. All parts were given a detergent bath and rinse to remove any grease or oil followed by a dip in an acid bath and neutralizer to remove oxidation. Then, the components were tack welded in sturdy jigs, adjustable for specific frame sizes.
An aluminum part can look perfectly clean but have a thin layer of oxidation. That layer melts at 2000 degree while the base metal melts at 1200. You get blow through as well as ugly blackened welds if the oxidation layer is not removed.
Scooter, thanks for 'chiming in' - you certainly know your stuff!
I don't know, the other side of that as far as industry info is concerned is that the oxide layer forms instantly, and you get rid of it not through heat, but the HF AC of the tig welder blasts it off. Or so they say. Does have to be scrupulously clean though.
Scooter George how well does a stainless wire brush work?
All I know is, if components sat around more than a few days, they went through the acid bath again. Centralia College used big, powerful Miller machines. I found some aluminum tubing in the scrap bin, and setting up the machine as told, tried welding. Got horrible black welds. burned holes in the metal. Had argon gas flow. good tungsten tip. aluminum LOOKED CLEAN. Instructor suggested I wire brush the parts first. Made a HUGE difference.
Works great BUT as long as you reserve it just for your aluminum stuff. The welding instructor at Centralia College in Washington said stainless but out at Trek bikes, they had a bench grinder with a steel wire wheel and it worked just fine.
Hats of to you Ron. Not only a great craftsman, but impressed that you've replied almost every comment, good, bad and ugly. Nicely done :)
Thank you so much. I have really tried to answer every serious question, but my most recent video has garnered 750 comments in 24 hours. I spent three hours this morning trying to catch up, but only made it about halfway through. I may get about as many comments every day this week, so at this rate I just won't be able to keep up. I suppose people have had worse problems!
Wow this is great! I dabbled a very teeny tiny bit in welding over quarantine in 2020 and am hoping to go to school soon to learn properly. I’m also getting into bicycling as well, so this video is just all around awesome 😃
I'm delighted that you enjoyed this video!
same but the school around here is partnered up with a communist tech college and they require mandatory vaccination in order to attend the school. No thanks!
Dear Ron I love the shop tours , I am looking forward to the 3rd D.V.D on the roadster build ..Thank you for taking the time to make these Video's Pete M
Pete - glad you like them! I just started shooting the next video in the roadster series today. I don't know when it will be finished, and uploaded to TH-cam, but I'm on the way, at least.
I am impressed the with the jig table, and the way the drawing is used for aliment! And PRAISE GOD!!! That I learned something new today 👍
I'm delighted that you enjoyed this video. You may like some of the other videos I have on my channel - th-cam.com/users/covellron
@@RonCovell will do thanks Mr. Covell.
Thanks for sharing, I am not sure there was much on this video, no cleaning steps, prep, specs, etc. just a little bit of welding, but the best I got was to use the breadboard flat to set the position of the parts to start. That was a good tip.
Glad you enjoyed it! I do have other videos that go into more depth on the welding processes:
th-cam.com/video/3sp1BP29J4E/w-d-xo.html
Someone really knows how to burn it in deep getting maximum performance out of those welds, nice. Brings back memories having my dad weld a slippery set of handlebars to the top of my gooseneck. He nailed it perfest and slippage was a thing of the past. Good Video.
I'm glad you liked it!
I still have an SC aluminum 26" Chameleon hardtail from 2001 when they were still made in USA. Welds are beautiful on this frame. I cracked the seatstay and sent it to Frank The Welder who repaired it and it hung in his shop for two years until I remembered he had it. Got it back and built it up deluxe, now it's my commuter. Sadly an aluminum frame is not something you want to keep beating on for years due to its relatively low fatigue life when compared to steel or Ti so in order to keep riding it I'll just have to tone it down. But the geometry is a perfect fit for my body dimensions and riding style.
Sounds like a great bike for your planned usage!
Frank is welding royalty
Thank you for encouraging to let you do the work!!!
Always!
That milling table, wow.
And those welds, laying dimes man. Super nice!
Yes, the fixturing table used at Santa Cruz Bicycles is fabulous, and their welder, Mike Woods, is very, very good.
Thanks very much for this video presentation Ron.
It was very enjoyable and quite a pleasure to watch.
Thank you. Sincerely,
Matthew
I'm glad you enjoyed it!
lmao
This video is right on time bro. I've been kicking around an idea for a purpose built delivery bike. I have sketches and ideas for the geometry but going from paper to actually making it is daunting.
Go for it!
I'll get my money up and show some pictures. Hopefully we can make something great together. I was thinking about this all morning on courrier.
Track bikes have their place but they're delicate and don't hold up
Always enjoy your videos, Ron. Thanks for taking the time to show us these interesting people/processes.
I appreciate your support. I was delighted to meet Mike Woods - he's an exceptional welder and craftsman.
Encourage him for us, we have no direct link and his work is commendable
This guy makes welding aluminium look easy. This is not a walk in the park.
Most people find some level of challenge with welding aluminum, but the only way to get good at it is to practice - a LOT!
+Ron Covell
With good interest and steady hand, about how many inches ? or hours ?
yes, it can depend on the welder. Thnx.
looks really cool. light and strong and straight after the straitning and heat treating
Aluminum is a great material to make a bicycle frame from, as long as it's heat treated!
What is the process for heat treating it? Also what grade of aluminum is it?
I bet everything in the welders house is super neat and precise, to match his work
nice little video. very interesting. keep those videos coming! thanks.
I'm so glad you liked it, and there are more videos on the way!
Amazing parts and workmanship 👍 Super impressed!🙂
Thank you! Cheers!
Great workmanship...
I'm so glad you liked it!
On my list of projects to make when I get my powertig welder.
Am Scout - That will be a great project!
His welding skill is high level.
I wish Commencal saw this!! I’ve had two broken frames from them, all short of warranty expiration but neither honored! They admit to over heating but keep doing it!!
I'm sorry to hear that they do not honor their warranty.
Wow, this is amazing. I'm so passionate about engineering.
Glad you liked it!
This is fabrication, not engineering.
great video! I would love a video showing the heat treat process as well
Heat treating bicycle frames is not a trivial process. Here's the short version:
th-cam.com/video/bV4bwABlPVw/w-d-xo.html
Here's a more in-depth description of the process, although the video is dated, the information is still accurate.
th-cam.com/video/yB7YoTEUbPw/w-d-xo.html
@@RonCovell thanks Ron! that second video is a great. I have found that those old archived videos can be a very useful resource
Good work. new V10 is a dream bike, wondeful
Thanks for 'chiming in'!
Awesome video!
Thank you!
I love to understand how it works. Thank you very much. Now I understood how my bike was made. PHANTASTIQUE 😄😯🤟👨🦳
You are welcome 😊
Wow this is great, I have never seen this before. hope to be in this business 👍
Best of luck, and let me know if I can help!
gorgeous work!
Yes, Mike is an exceptional welder!
Aluminum has been used for bicycle frames for over 20 years now. I'd say it has stood the test of time fairly well.
excellent quality of welding, you are pro!
Beautiful
Thank you
Ever thought of drilling holes in some of the tubing and sending gas purge up the bikes internals bit like the way process pipe welds are done.... there by creating a strong internal bead and by that process seriously strengthening the whole frame... Great welding ... Five Stars...
There are many cases where purging the inside of a tube while welding is very beneficial. Food-quality stainless tubing is one very common example.My understanding is that In the world of aluminum bicycle frames, purging is not generally used.
Beautiful welds!
Mike Woods is an exceptional welder!
th-cam.com/users/aaronmlarsenvideos
Thank you for showing us around....er....the little table.
You bet!
I'm not a welder but I always admire a fine weld.
I'm very glad!
Nice work
Thanks!
Nice work! Great beads. Keep up the great work
Thank you. I expect to be uploading another aluminum bicycle video in a week or so.
Can't wait!
Hi Ron, Is this from one of your DVDs? Your videos are great and have been incredibly helpful! Thank you for the making them. Best, Tyler
Yes, this is an excerpt from my 'Advanced TIG Welding' DVD. I'm glad you have enjoyed my programs.
My “ Handmade in USA” Cannondale mountain bike has beautiful welds.
Cannondale is well known as an excellent brand!
How much does a made in USA frame cost?
@@RonCovell Actually, when they were made in the US they were well known for snapping at the welds, earning them the name "crack n fail". Mostly due to bad design, though others blame grinding their welds smooth. New ones (made in taiwan) are done in a more conventional process - more boring to be sure, but less failure prone. None of this has to do with country of origin, just that cannondale was not an excellent brand for quality back in those days.
Thanks for the excellent background information on Cannondale!
Otherwise known as Crackandfail
Nice bicycle frame. I really like it.
Thanks for watching, and commenting!
Super work
I'm so glad you liked it!
Wow! Amazing
Thank you! 😊
man what skill! this type of weld is what I always look for on bike frames. In my eyes it's always the best
Glad you like it!
Good job welding!
Glad you liked it!
Very good!! 👨🏻🏭
Thank you! Cheers!
I would like to see the alignment process. And see how much the tempering re-distorts it. Or see how they combat the heat treatment from re-distorting it.
There are several TH-cam videos that touch on these subjects.
very nice my brother perfect
Thank you!
Support sir
Nice job
God 🙏 bless you Sir
From phillipines
Thanks!
Excellent job ! Congratulations !
Thank you for watching, and commenting!
Wow, very great MTB-Frame. I like so much aluminum frame. I don't are interested to carbon fiber frame. I thinking with the 6061-aluminum flying, we have one absolute stability, more as carbon.
I have in last time, so many bike, GT, or Cannondale, all I have buy with aluminum. I hope so much, in the next time more from this frame set see and possibility to buy one. Thanks for this great video recension. Greetings from Switzerland..
I'm very glad you liked the video! Perhaps you would like this series I made on building an aluminum bicycle frame:
th-cam.com/video/d76PFjH1SJA/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/R6-x6M2wj1A/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/wcTkQ_Y_dBA/w-d-xo.html
Keep 'em coming ;)
I certainly will! If you check out my channel, you will see many more videos on welding, and metal fabrication.
Bella mujer muy huapa beatifill
Ever notice that most, not all, successful operations are neat and organized?? Our Porsche Race shop was ridiculously clean most of the time...but that's how we became a championship team.
Nice job!! Made in America!!
Yes, I like to see clean and organized working spaces. (Although what's behind my camera is not as clean as what's in front)!
beautiful fitment
Thank you!
Good jigs seem to be absolutely essential for welding geometrically-critical things.
Yes, stuff moves when it's tack welded, and moves more when it's finish welded, so it's hard to get precision without rigid fixturing.
Normally they cut the copes in a milling machine, so that they are pretty perfect when assembled. Then they fixture it. Then they weld all the tubes except the seat stays, then they take it out, cold set any problems, then they weld the seat stays. That is on conventional frames. This is pretty unconventional. Of course a lot of the frames sold are not straight.
καταπληκτικό!!!
@krrrruptidsoless - Watch it again. He says they jump around to minimize distortion but it always distorts so they heat it up in the oven and move it around.
avro549B yes for most welding applications the hardest part about smaller items that aren't secured is distortion. Pipelines and such it isn't as much of an issue
asking questions is the best way to make discovers
Yes, that's absolutely true!
Best video ever😏
I'm so glad you liked it - there will be more to come1
Ur welding seams are looking good
Thank you!
I have one V10. Nice video
Cool, thanks!
thank you now i know how to weld
Hey, that was easy!
@Ron Covell
Thank you very much friend. I appreciate your kind reply. In the case of small workshops that do not have heat treatment, what do you recommend for welding, what contribution ER 4043 or ER 5554?
Many greetings friend. From Mexico City.
In my work, I used 4043 filler rod mostly for welding cast material. I have never seen or used 5554, but I use 5356 for parts that need the greatest strength, or that will be heat treated.
I love the look of Aluminium welds and the look of bare aluminium, it used to seem like the perfect metal to me, but didn't know then how much it can be prone to salt attack, discovered that from riding motorbike in winter and dishwashing aluminium food trays...
Well, one option is to anodize the aluminum. Anodizing is quite good at protecting aluminum from salt water and many acids. The anodizing can be clear, so it looks a lot like bare aluminum, or it can be colored, which can offer an interesting 'candy' like finish. Many aluminum bicycle parts are anodized - like crank arms and stems.
@@RonCovell ah okay yeah, I've seen anodized aluminium parts before but don't know the process of getting I supposed probably through some sort of electrolysis in a solution bath, I'll have to look it, thanks! 👍
muy bueno !!!!
Buenosdias, y gracias por sus videos
Me alegra que te gusten!
Gonne order a puls tig machine right now...very motivating
ez lol - There are many advantages for using pulsing when TIG welding!
@@RonCovell thank you for the great info...
Wow! That's a cute artisanal way to do things, but honestly the hyper industrialized Chinese way is unbeatable in every aspect.
Yes, there is no way to custom-build a bike and be competitive with mass produced frames. Nevertheless, this is the process used to make a prototype frame like this one, or a custom design to meet the needs of a particular customer.
very interesting!!
Hey - you're the first one to comment! I'm glad you enjoyed it. I promise there will be more videos to come.
i really like how he has the template and the fixture to be able to get the same result over and over again.i watched more videos from you and i had a lot to learn from you.thank you for making this awesome videos!
3Mever hi
Hey Ron. Great Video. These Welds are Incredible. Would this work for small steel tubing like Mini Bike Frames, etc ?
Thank You.
Yes, steel tubing can be TIG welded together very easily. You can see some larger steel tubing being welded here: th-cam.com/video/aSAwKLiBLMU/w-d-xo.html
Yes you can as it is the same principle just different material
Whats the difference in thickness between the tubing used for motorcycle frames and that of bicycle frames? Anyone know?
Love it
I'm very glad you enjoyed this video!
wow thank you
You are most certainly welcome!
The regularity of those welds, awesome!
Yes, Mike Wood is an exceptional welder!
He is a very skilled welder, not anyone can weld aluminum like that.
Yes - Mike Woods is an excellent welder, indeed!
Quality to Price ration is Outstanding
Thanks!
1:19 How was the monocoque built? I already know how two tubes are welded together, but I'd love to know how that monocoque is made.
The monocoque in this video was probably hydroformed. You can see a more low-tech way of making a bicycle monocoque here: th-cam.com/video/d76PFjH1SJA/w-d-xo.html
It looks like it's two separate halves that were stamped then welded together probably in China.
There are companies that do hydroforming all over the world, including in the United States. That frame and the monocoque halves were definitely welded in California - I was there!
The use here of the term 'monocoque' is not really correct. A monocoque is a structure where the outer surface forms the structure - the typical modern car body is sort of a monocoque, but not a pure one. This bicycle frame is part tubular, part formed sheet metal. Monocoque it is not
I agree that the entire frame is not a monocoque design, but I believe the formed upper section can be fairly called a monocoque structure.
Top notch.
Glad you liked it!
in regards to distortion once you've tacked one side do you tack the other as well might help to have a mirror image jig and help it with a rubber mallet just to get things right might not solve the problem but might lessen the affects of the heat ?
When tacking tubing, it is good practice to alternate the locations of the tacks. It takes a minimum of 3 tack welds to really hold a joint rigidly, and more tacks is better.
Have you any experience Welding British 7020 aluminum. I believe that number is correct, it was used by Spondon Engineering on their Beautiful round tube motorcycle frames. They have since been bought by Norton and you can see their frames on their v-4 bikes. From one of their old brochures they mention their material could be bent, welded and would stress relieve locally at the weld and age harden back to T6 hardness. To talk about beautiful tig welding you need to see one of their frames. The British also make a High Manganese Aerospace Steel called T6 that is basically their steel for uses we use chromoly for. More forgiving, and can also be used with Bronze welding for lower temp minimum distortion motorcycle frames
such as those still sold by Harris Engineering. From what I understand both the annealed steel and bronze welding rod have a 85,000psi tensile strength.It was also the same steel used on the jet powered Land Speed vehicle "Thrust" which I believe was Tig Welded.
Monty Crain - Thank you for giving me this information! 7000 series aluminum is extremely strong, the 7075 alloy that's most often used in the USA is not weldable. I was not aware that there was another alloy in that series which could be welded! I was also unaware of the high manganese steel used for aerospace fabrication. For the record, bronze filler rod can be used for TIG welding mild steel and chrome moly. It definitely keeps the distortion down, but it has a much lower tensile strength, so it's not suited for every application.
First class skill.
Thank you for the nice comment, Tim!
Not at all. High skill should be commended. Such skill is getting rare in the US, I believe.
Thank you 🌹👍
I am so glad you have discovered my videos, and enjoy them!
I Love seeing welds like yours Ron and they are Beautiful. Ok, I come from a house of Millwrights, Dad, Grandpa and Great Grandpa ( I even have my Great Grandpa's tool box and he wrote 1902 under the lid with chalk that over the years that it galvanized/stained itself into the wood 💖 ). They were all Awesome and I never became a Millwright because it wasn't for me, as I wanted to be a truck driver instead and I did 30 years of it and now I'm in a wear house at a easy job forking around 😂😂. Some of the stories I have heard from my Dad and Grandpa are Hella fumny. My Grandpa was the serious one, and my dad and his buddy were the goofball ones, and the crap that they use to do 😂😂😂😂 I guess my Grandpa told a rookie to weld up a aluminum piece that my dad said kinda look like a Christmas tree. He did and it was welded, but my dad and his buddy knew that the rookie welded it up with stick weld? My grandpa was always a big cheese boss, and went over and touched it and it crumbled to the ground. My dad said him and Wes were laughing their asses off😂😂😂 I know nothing about welding, but listening to them and walking by some metal structure, my grandpa and my dad would always say under the breath, shit welds, or rat welds. My grandpa and my father were awesome welders. I've seen my grandpa weld millipede welds and my father wasn't as good as him he said, but he could do centipede welds all day long! Love your welds Ron and if you made 24in BMX Cruisers I definitely buy one, unless you?
You have some great talents in your family. May you carry on the traditions!
@@RonCovell 😁😎👊
Inspirator..
Good job bro.
Thanks!
The bmx PK Ripper first got me into alloy welds
You and us all 🤟🤠💯
Thank you
You're welcome!
Stackin' dimes homie.
Glad you liked it!
Its great and thank you for the detailed video,We are new to the manufacturing of Aluminium Cycle Frames.Could you please let us know whats the table name and its fixtures which you used to hold the frame rigidly
That type of table is often called a 'fixturing table' or sometimes simply a 'welding table', and there are many manufacturers worldwide. Here's one example to get you started:
www.trick-tools.com/StrongHand-Rhino-Cart-Mobile-Fixturing-Station-TDQ54830-K1-10380
@@RonCovell Thank ron :)
Soy ciclista y al entrar a este mundo que es full adrenalina mi vida cambio
Y actualmente estoy en la carrera de Soladadura Universal ya que me encantaría fabricar cuadros de bicicleta
Saludos desde Perú
Muy contento de saber de usted desde Perú, y ¡buena suerte en la construcción de su bicicleta!
sir if i done retrofiting my xc mtb full suspension by installing internal cable does it affects the durability of the frame?
It all depends on where you put openings in the frame, and how the openings are reinforced.
Cool video, What type of aluminum did you use 👍
I didn't ask what type of aluminum they use at Santa Cruz Bicycles, but it's probably the 6000 series, since it is a high-strength alloy which is both welded and heat treated.
What was the purpose of the keyway broaching tools on the table when you were welding? Great welding by the way,what set up and settings were you using?
There were a lot of fixturing components made by the Bluco company which were used to precisely locate the bicycle frame elements on the layout table.
Perfect handiwork
Glad you enjoyed it!
@@RonCovell Right!
salut bon travail..👍👍👍👍👍
Merci beaucoup!
To add a little context here, retail for these bikes start at $2k, and go up to over $15k.
Thanks for adding that information!
NICE !!
Glad you like it!
wish I could weld that neat
Practice, practice, practice!
Beautiful welding. How do you stop the distortion happening to the round steering post
The more curvature a part has, the less distortion you'll see. Everything on this frame is pretty curvy.
@@RonCovell Thankyou for your reply Ron
Polygon bike from Indonesia is amazing
Jokam🙌
thank you
Thanks for watching, and commenting!
Thanks for the video. I was wondering what kind of testing is done after welding to ensure there are no cracks in the welds or the aluminum tubing.
Heat treatment
One method used by DIY motorcycle racers/ fabrication, is weld a small 1/4” coupling in an area on the frame that a pressure gauge is mounted.
There is a small diameter hole in all frame tubes that allow air pressure too travel a complete path to the gauge. Pressurize the frame at low psi, and spray soapy water on all welded joints.
Hello Ron. Nice weldings you do.
I weld stick not professionally, and did some tig on steel bicycle frames. Never aluminum.
What would it be the most important feature a decent welder must have in order to make such uniform threads ?
Many thanks. José
Jose - it's more about the person welding, rather than the welding machine. If I had to pick a single most important thing, it would probably be steady hands.
+Ron Covell
Yes, I agree ! steady hands.
After a good amount og grinding by hand, my hands and arms are shaky, and welding is harder.
Thanks.
I sometimes use blocks of wood to support my arms or wrists. Try it - it can really help!
In some case, why my friend has a black colour around welding area? Whats going wrong, and may u give us advise
A coating of black 'soot' around the weld area is a sign of a contaminated electrode, or insufficient shielding gas. You can see more on this here: th-cam.com/video/Clg6e_c7Ua4/w-d-xo.html
fine looking frame , any more videos of making the mono part of the frame , even a shot of the finished product. but fine workmanship.
You can see a photo of the finished bicycle here: gp1.pinkbike.org/p4pb8315711/p4pb8315711.jpg
many thanks sir.
outstanding