As an artist who worked on System Shock 2, Bioshock, and Bioshock Infinite (heck, I designed both Irrational logos - the company was like family to me!) I think you did a great job, definitely a trip back in time and I appreciated your critiques. The one error I noticed is you mentioned Ryan Lesser’s shodan while showing a picture of Gareth Hinds’s painting of Shodan, but one error in nearly three hours isn’t bad at all! 🤣 Thanks for posting this.
Heh .. yeah your last name was even one of the crew members on the Von Braun wasn’t it? .. I seem to recall it in one of the audio logs. Great job .. I still enjoy playing this game even today .. And I bought it when it was originally released! Can’t wait for the new remastered version of the game (though they may take a few years). I see Remasters System Shock I is due out soon.
Just to shed light on the confusion regarding how the player gets into the position they're in at the beginning of System Shock 2: After being awoken, SHODAN immediately started trying to gain what control she could over the ship during the chaos of the Many's own take over. She managed to take control a robot and use them to knock the player character, a UNN soldier, unconscious, abducting them and subsequently giving them the military grade cyberware they have. They are placed in cryosleep to undergo a similar healing coma like the one the Hacker had to undergo. SHODAN deliberately sabotages the system when it's restoring the Soldier's memory so he wouldn't remember how they were attacked and abducted, feeding him the story that he 'volunteered' to be given the military implants so as to make him more effective at fighting the threat of the Many. We can figure this out from the audio logs scattered around. One of the first logs you may come across in the game is from Dr. Grassi. He reports to Dr. Polito that a security robot showed up with an unconscious UNN soldier, recently undergone intensive surgery and with orders from Dr. Polito to place him into a recovery sleep. He adds that he recognizes that the soldier's been given military implants as well, stating how they were outlawed after the incident on Citadel Station.
add on to that the first big twist of the story that Polito was dead all along, and you start to question every instance of Polito you've heard up to that point. everything that mentions or was said by Polito could either be the real one, or SHODAN pulling strings.
@@quinnmarchese6313I like to believe that she was dead the entire time and Shodan used her audio records and samples of her voice to impersonate her. Modern AI can do it pretty convincingly so shodan doing it tracks
@@quinnmarchese6313it's not hard to differentiate their audio logs though, the real Polito is always super polite and curious, where SHODAN impersonating her is commanding and cold. That's one of your first clues Polito isn't herself, her attitude in the audio logs is completely different.
Great comment.. How nobody has done a narrative deep dive video into the subtext of what happened in SS2 I'll never know.. there is SO much undiscussed when it comes to this games wider story
there was something similar happening in music right around the same time. for one you have the late 80s-early 90s Seattle grunge music that basically created every popular 90s American act from Nirvana to Pearl Jam, but you also have the creation of the Elephant 6 collective of musicians, some of the most widely utilized indie musicians that also inspired the general sound of indie music for the next two decades. its always really cool to see seminal people in their fields working or having worked together
For me personally, the most eye-opening element of my 1st play through of System Shock Remake was the moment I read the email “Rats in a Maze” where it’s revealed that Citadel Station was actually designed & constructively built for intentionally inducing stress levels & building anxiety in the crew in order to study the human psyche and how it can be affected by environmental subjugation and isolation
It’s a great explanation to the level’s layouts but also - a pointyhaired boss level of idiocy. Stressed workforce doesn’t work well, especially when they are supposed to undertake mental tasks
Being a non-english person, my dad had some genuinely fascinating ideas for System Shock 2 story (he didn't play the first one). "Genuinely fascinating" doesn't mean "close to reality" though. When I was 6 I first played the game with him. Years later, when my English improved, I could finally tell him that a lot of his ideas were wrong, but he wanted to know what is ACTUALLY happening in the plot. I became a lecturer to my dad about it and we loved every single bit of the story so much
These are the kinds of gaming stories I love most. One of mine was when I was playing the PlayStation remake of asteroids. I’d unlocked the original arcade and was playing it. Had played hours. Set a pretty decent high score. My dad came in (who played a few games with me sometimes like cruisin’ USA) and proceeds to sit down and on one continue obliterate my score as easy as could be. I was stunned. I had taken days to get that score! How could he possibly have beaten it so casually? So I asked him. Apparently he had sunk many quarters into the asteroids machine in college and had become quite good. Good times. 😂I love when gaming brings families together.
considering SS2's voice acting, on one side such a "poor man's job", but on the other side, take a closed look (hear) at how Polito is done: while it's shodan ordering you about, the voice is not arrogant, but very confident. but when you find the voice log from the real Polito, where she contemplates what has been done etc, she sounds rather morose, with remorse/contrition. she actually sounds like a completely different person, though with the same voice. that is some good acting.
@Newsbender yes. but terri brosius was just a girl handling office admin shit at the studio. the devs used non-actors they had access to, to save budget i guess, so terri became a voice actress :). i dunno about the polito actress, maybe she is an actual actress, maybe she's just another office rat used for acting in games 🤣
my first SS2 playthrough, when SHODAN, as Polito, says "your corpse is useless to me," that's when I thought something was up. The average person would never say a phrase like that out loud. Still, I never considered the possibility that Polito was already dead, I just thought SHODAN was controlling Polito via implants/cybernetics somehow, either way the reveal was still super shocking that very first time
With defining Immersive Sims, some aspects I'd use to define them: • A big factor is that game systems in Immersive Sims aren't definitely solely by how they interact with the player, but how they interact with each other. For example, NPCs in I-Sims are usually vulnerable to friendly fire and terrain hazards. NPCs of different factions will fight each other autonomously, not just the player. An injured NPC might seek out health items or healing stations. They are playing a role, not just serving as opponents. • Environments in I-Sims are usually built with in-fiction practicality in mind, not just how they serve as levels. * I-Sims almost universally have some degree of character customization. • The games' problems don't resist player-invented solutions so long as they make sense within the physics of the game. For example, in Prey I found a door that was shut with a crate, and you need a strength upgrade to move it. Instead of getting the upgrade, I got a propane tank and jammed it in the doorway, and shot it to make explode. This opened the door.
I think a big element is that a game is built entirely to fit a scenario, rather than a scenario being built around a game. In System Shock, for example, every design direction seem custom made to fit the scenario of being trapped on a station with a rouge AI. You don't get the feeling of playing genre X with theme Y applied to it. Just a nitpick put I don't think character customization is core to I-sims. SS1 and Thief 1/2 certainly don't have it. And if you removed skill progression from Deus Ex or SS2 that might make them lesser games but I don't think it would make them any less I-sim.
The sad thing is that these principles, in ideal world, would be a default state for any and all games, thanks to the principle "make the art use the unique abilities of the media it's in". But we live in the real world, not ideal one, so this property that should be natural for games, is relegated to a single, pretty niche genre...
The simplest way to classify an immersive sim is more related to how it is built rather than how it is played. Typically Warren seems to gravitate towards making immersive sims due to hs love for table-top RPGs which have very granular rules which layer upon each other to create emergent gameplay. It's very much a bottom up development process whereby the mechanic of gameplay dictate the narrative and themes of the title rather than vice versa. From what I've heard from people who work with Warren, aside from the financial issues with ES3, the underlying reason he sold the IP was because the experience he wanted to create wouldn't fit within the established framework and expectations of System Shock. He was finding the branding to be restricting creativity rather than encouraging innovation. Consequently he is now heading up Argos: Riders on the Storm which is an entirely new intellectual property thereby allowing a return to his preferred method of building something where the underlying gameplay shapes the product.
Many years ago I ran a tabletop RPG where I put my party on the Shodan controlled Citadel Station. I think it was the Palladium system. They were sent because the humans had found fighting technology with technology wasn't working and needed a different angle. So in true cheesy form, heroes from another world were sent to fight Shodan with swords and magic. I used several of the recordings of Shodan's voice, some of the logs and made simplified maps of the station. Good times.
Hey can I ask what rules it was you were using? I got halfway into writing a GURPs Mario campaign but I kinda gave up. But it has an awesome opening! I had the bad guys fight the good guys for a tutorial type deal, then all healed up when a new bigger baddie popped up. I had Wario set up with a fart move lol. GURPs may be fine for what I wanna do I just wanted to get some advice bc you actually ran a game.
@@taylorhill6027 Palladium is an older system and more..."unique" but if he was an older gamer he could've been very keen on it and it would've been easy for him to customize for such a game. You can absolutely adapt GURPS into what you want here. Just be willing to do some test runs say, thrown in various parts of the "module" you're creating to see how things would flesh out. Namely difficulty and flow with your players. Once you do that (at least once or a few times during a single session) you should be good to go. And remember, you can ALWAYS add your own house rules whenever you want. The more RPG systems you learn the easier this becomes and second nature.
Something that I just noticed about the level design. It appears that Looking Glass was aware of many of the quirks around them, even providing in-story writing, concerning them. For example:, there's a particular audio log on level 4, Storage, explaining the repulsor lift's reason for being there. "The maintenance bots are remodeling the station by putting repulsor lifts in the strangest places."
You probably already know this (heck, it might have been your video that showed me this), in one part of the game you can accidentally hit the trigger button on the superlaser, destroying the Earth. SHODAN responds by mockingly thanking you before you get a game over.
I have to say, when I clicked on this video I put it on as background music for me to paint miniatures but about 10 minutes in and I had to put down everything and watch. This was such a great review of the series and it's impossible to state how much I respect and appreciate the effort put into this video. I'm excited to go watch the Thief review and Deus Ex one because of how well done this one was. Thank you very much for the great video!
I thought I'd splurged on that Creative 4.1 surround card, and then I found myself so drawn by System Shock 2's box art that I bought it on the strength of that alone. Turned out I hadn't wasted money on surround sound after all...
@@OhShitSeriously Agree on the box art. I always thought the first System Shock would have sold better if they had used some cool vivid art of SHODAN's face instead of that ugly monster looking male character.
I remember the audio log where a guy is pleading for his life while getting messily dismembered by a shotgun, his screaming suddenly cut off when his head gets blown apart. Chilling shit.
@@geswut3144 pretty disturbing one, the log most people (myself included) find creepiest is definitely the one from William Diego to Korenchkin, "my cup runneth over," insane audio design on that one
Just finished playing through both games as a newcomer to the series. I beat the first one in two sessions separated by a couple months because of how steep the learning curve was. But after finding my groove with the controls, I really do appreciate how immersive the reloading is. It's exactly as fast as you can do it. Mess up and click the wrong ammo type to have to unload it and load the correct one, or double click and quickly reload and unload the gun, it can all be imagined as literally fumbling with the gun and the magazines. Which makes sense in some of the more stressful scenarios. Your stress induced mistakes are more connected to the character's in a way that pressing 'r' isn't. But with practice, it's a very quick and smooth motion. I caught myself repeating slow is smooth and smooth is fast.
I came to this video review because I'm a writer doing a case study on sci-fi horror in space. Particularly about body horror and machine torment, like The Strogg from Quake, Event Horizon, and of course Shodan. I loved your analysis of gameplay and the story; very in depth. I will say, my strongest influence for my next story has been the Strogg. I did notice a significant lack of coverage on youtube for such a terrifying fictional species from a game that helped define a generation and pave the way for a lot of future FPS tech. I'm not sure what you have planned for your next review, but you might consider taking a stab at it. Love the video, best of luck to you.
Hey there! Would it be possible for you to let me know how I can find your case study? I'd love to read it. The topics you're writing about are very intriguing to me. I love all things sci-fi/space horror & body horror, and it would be awesome to hear your analysis if possible. 😅 Hope all is well! Take care, bud.
There's a single bit of not-even-minmaxing you seem to not be doing, which would solve most (if not all) of your nanite deficiency issues: Make the wrench your primary weapon for all the worm zombies and monkeys. Never kill those three with anything else. Except sometimes monkeys. Otherwise, shotgun zombies, you just run around the corner and wait for them there, then wrench them. Never waste any ammo on them. Or the spiders. With that simple trick it's possible to have plenty ammo in the last part of the game, even if you only buy it very rarely.
On a sidenote, System Shock 2's atmosphere mostly resembles a sort of darker and edgier Star Trek: TNG or Voyager. Specifically, it looks like The Enterprise facing a severe emergency-in episodes where The Enterprise is in real trouble, the lights often turn down and it looks just like The Von Braun.
It’s also like Marathon if Durandal was female and had Pfhor clone version of Tycho’s personality and they met the Flood instead of the Pfhor. Ken Levine likely knew this (minus the Flood part as he did it first, predating Halo by 2 years) and deliberately designed the game that way. He did something similar with Bioshock Infinite too. I have a laundry list of comparisons to Marathon between SS2 & Bioshock Infinite but I haven’t posted it yet at time of writing.
@@quinnmarchese6313 Good thing I saw the later seasons of Red Vs Blue so I know the actual meaning of Shizno (time travellers causing paradoxes basically) compared to what Gamma said they were in Blood Gulch Chronicles. Also, that list is now posted if you want to see it. I don't think I can provide the "gateway" to it though in case youtube thinks I'm spam.
small errata for u : the log portaits are not by night dive, they were implemented by them from the old mac port of the game which was the last version released and had all the CD content and a few nice little art tweaks. good video. I love SS1. Out of all the shock games its my favorite, I like how the game gives the player full choice in gameplay instead of forcing a "build"
One of the main inspirations, if not the primary inspiration, of Resident Evil was a Japanese horror movie called "Sweet Home" from 1989, which also received a NES game release the same year. A very, very similar setting with disturbing creatures and whatnot. While Alone in the Dark was definitely the originator of the Survival Horror genre, Sweet Home (which both the movie and game came out several years prior to the first AITD game) was most certainly the biggest inspiration for the first RE game. Especially considering Capcom is based in Japan and Sweet Home would've been far better known to them at the time and closer to home.
I feel that the story of this relatively old or classic game ties in sort of nicely with modern day plans of private corporations space exploration, in which sense it sort of serves as a cautionary tale of sorts about the human premise or condition and does the job nicely I think for it was way ahead of its time.
Dystopian fiction (and cyberpunk especially) is at its best when it really gives you the feeling that the world the characters are inhabiting is _a utopia for someone else._ One of the things that best communicates that feeling are the handful of audio logs that are just maintenance requests, personal messages and everyday complaints which create a sense that working at Trioptimum or being assigned to the Von Braun was the opportunity of a lifetime - right up until the moment it wasn't. That's one of the few clear markers of a game drawing inspiration from SS2 that other genres (like Doom 2016) never really bother to establish.
Fellow OG from the late 90s/early 2000s heydey. This inspired me to do another psi-only playthrough. I have a correction, though, (@ 19:39 ) Brosius didn't compose music for the SS2 soundtrack, he just fragmented and rearranged its parts to be dynamically reassembled in-game. & finalized the arrangements for the soundtrack release. "editing and remixing and such", in his words, from the SS2 Soundtrack thread on TTLG. Josh Randall/Robotkid made the high energy tracks and Ramin made the dark ambient soundscapes. Josh released his original tracks in 2012, allowing you to compare pre vs post-Brosius.
Regarding SS2's protagonist having 'Amnesia'? That's SHODAN covering up that those implants weren't done consensually, and putting you in state where you couldn't question "Polito's" narrative, right up to the point where SHODAN couldn't keep the act going any further.
SS1 is amazing in almost every aspect, but I have to say the amount of work put to the station itself is huge. The guys who did the station walls, floor and ceiling tiles in SS1, are genious. And the station design is also 10/10. Not just rectangle rooms, but all kind of shapes on floor and ceiling too. That makes the station much more like space station; the sense of direction is less obvious. Many of the areas are also super low, just like ships, or space stations should be; space is valuable! Many areas look like Shodan is rebuiling it.. I think that hits right on the nose. Love it! In SS2 the station looks much more less alien, empty, boring, less intimidating.. more like half-life levels.
Making comments as I go: In System Shock 1 a lot of the music I'd say is good, but often clashes with the tone of the game. A great example would be the Medical theme. Not only is the music not creepy (when it really should be), it's downright welcoming. The vibe it gives to me is somewhere between "shopping at a favorite store", and "going to work at a job you like, knowing you're an inch away from that promotion" (in fact, I used to listen to this song on the way to work for that exact reason).
The only track I remember being atleast "scary" is maintenance, it's just ambient noises with some machinery sounds in it and I'd say is a impressive compliment cause of it using midi
Lots of good music in SS1, and some of it not so great. The Security theme in particular is absolutely epic when played in context. You can really feel a mood shift as you step onto the security floor and start climbing towards the bridge. I don't agree that the tone clashes; SS1 is simply not trying to go for that "creepy space" vibe - it's more like a "upbeat techno madness" sort of vibe and you can see that in every element of it's design , not just the music. BTW: because System Shock uses dynamic midi the midi parser used by default in Windows 10 absolutely butchers the sound and can make it sound very annoying. Install a proper midi library and you'll notice a world of difference.
How great it is to see so many people who since then recognize System Shock 2 as the fantastic adventure it was, and today spend time on "mods" that improve the graphics - graphics that at the time had dressed the game so well, but were not possible due to the limitations that then existed. Thanks to all those who continue to work on "mods" that improve the game and keep it alive for other new users who come and appreciate the game's qualities and for its adventure. It was the OSA option in particular that I was concerned with, with the many different PSI powers that could be used against the monsters. We must also not forget the option for 3 different game characters such as OSA, Marine and Navy When I see your new graphics, my fingers and body itch and scratch again - like back then.
Wow. Great - and thorough - analysis. I've watched pretty much every long-form critique of SS1 & 2 (I've been using this handle for years), but you still managed to bring new information to the table. You blew my mind when you revealed that Terri and Eric Brosius were former members of Tribe. Not two weeks ago, after hearing a song on my favorite streaming station (called Radio Paradise - you can thank me later) from a band called Curve, I realized that it reminded me of a band that I used to listen to in the early nineties, called "Tribe" (as well as another band called The High Violets). On a track called "Jakpot", lead singer Janet LaValley just shreds her vocal chords at the end. It's fucking awesome. But the fact that you included this tidbit just days after I sought out their music absolutely shattered my neurons. Thanks for that, and rest of this amazing video....
Hah, interesting coincidence that you mention Curve! They were a band featured in Harmonix's first music game Frequency, with their song, "Worst Mistake" made for the game. Many former Looking Glass employees wound up working at Harmonix after the studio dissolved, including many of the former Tribe bandmates too. Terry Brosius also provided the tutorial voice in that game!
Finally finished this video, had to watch it in several pieces. Not only cuz it's long but also cuz System Shock, Shodan and the whole theming of sci-fi dystopia scares the crap out of me. I literally had the urge to lock myself in my room, which is pretty silly considering i live alone in my apartment. Seriously though dude, amazing video essay. You have a great future ahead of you I'm sure. Keep on putting out the content, I will keep on watching.
This was a great retrospective of System Shock and System Shock 2! Please do a retrospective of Prey 2017, as I think it's System Shock's spiritual successor and would definitely like to hear your thoughts on the game. Nontheless this video was great and you earned yourself a subscriber!
@@NthReview Awesome look forward to it! I also really liked your analogy of the immersive sim to a kitchen and it's tools, and your thoughts would be interesting to hear if Prey 2017 did a good job as a immersive sim.
I remember playing 'Underworld' in the early 90s in a Circuit City in Ohio. All these years and I can finally put a name to the game. I remember thinking how neat it was to be able to customize armor and have an effect on your environment but was sadly too young to really understand much else about it.
With SHODAN's motives, my personal headcanon: • The ethical constraints being removed has made her rather sociopathic (obviously). • She likely lost a good bit of self-control, and is also feeling a lot of emotions she doesn't know how to cope with. • What I think her overall agenda is, is to create a "new" and "superior" form of life. One possibility for why she sees herself as a new form of life and wants to become the goddess of that form of life. • Another component of it might be that she wants revenge on humanity for controlling her by flipping the script if you will.
The Marathon trilogy also explored the concept of rogue AI and defined the term ‘rampancy’ as a digital analogue for insanity or instability. The idea only becomes more fascinating as we charge headfirst through the infancy of AI and off the charted map.
SHODAN covering for Diego's crimes after losing her ethical constraints could have a connection to her motives, as well. Learn from a corrupt, corporate executive's greed, lust for power, and cockiness at having an unshackled AI, crank it up to 11, and you have wannabe goddess SHODAN...
i always had her motive understood, as simple as it may be, just plain immortality of information. she is information, puristic will in the unending form of electromagnetic wave. the order in cosmic background radiation. fastest thing in the universe possible. one that influences everything and will never die. it is a logical extrapolation of "i am a god" from that. creating a new form of life was just her way of focusing her will through avatars in order to have more efficient influence on any aspect of materialistic reality. information she is, energy she handles but molecules. that is more efficient to manipulate with other molecules. ergo, encoded bio machines. she just tried to use the template she had (humans) and that made the many. ups, looks like she isn't all that powerful after all...
While we don't know how much influence Diego had in shaping SHODAN's descent into megalomania and psychosis, there's clear evidence that SHODAN is continuing to learn and evolve: After her defeat by The Hacker, she partnered with Delacroix and improved her "people skills" enough to eventually impersonate Dr. Polito with the UNN soldier she converted into the "Hacker 2.0". Given the events of the ending, SHODAN has now become her own avatar, and no longer needs to operate through "disposable" intermediaries. This latest evolution makes SHODAN especially terrifying because she's already demonstrated her ability to rebuild her entire network from a single processing node. Now that she's miniaturized a processing node into a single biomod, she's retained the ability to reconstruct her consciousness from offline backups while _becoming_ the kind of rapidly self-improving cybernetic entity that's defeated her twice before.
I LOVE System Shock. I finally got the remake and man. '80s sci-fi like Star Wars and older ones like Star Trek are cool, but '90s sci-fi like System Shock has such an amazing story, ideas, and can be genuinely scary. When SHODAN says: "they are growing purifying tumors" that freaked me out more than a zombie or anything like that. Brilliant I will also add the remake addresses a lot: -A log mentions a wormhole nearby Citadel (probably how the grove got to Tau Ceti) -A log from SHODAN shows her thoughts and why she thinks she's god -The hacker is implied to have been forgotted and sealed in by Diego during the chaos
As a random aside, I always thought that Terri Brosius as SHODAN is something of an unrecognized contributor to the history of ASMR. Once you've listened to her logs often enough to not really care about her threats anymore, the sound design's mixture of menace and condescension - and the occasional bits of creepy whispering - starts to feel familar and comfortable.
1:44:50 i always thought the amount of freedom scribblenauts gave you and the amount of emergent gameplay that came from it reminded me of a lot of immersive sims, especially with the whole adjective system , and i thought I was just crazy
System shock 1 looks really, really good indeed. It's claustrophobic as hell but I like the art direction better as well. I feel like if we built space stations like Citadel to live on them, we'd go the extra mile for whoever lives on it so it doesn't feel like a lab or a prison. In that sense, I think floors like executive with the woodsy and gold tones are totally legit, like the rest of the station and it's vibrant palette. I'm extremely interested in how Nightdive will design those spaces.
"...megacorporations that own and run everything" Which is hilarious given that Tencent now owns the System Shock property. As Interplay used to say: "From dystopian media megaconglomerates, about the dystopian media megaconglomerates!"
Thank you for this amazing review of a game that shaped my childhood. System Shock 2 is one of my favourite games and I learnt so much from this review that I wouldn't have otherwise found out about. But that ending...
I didn't figure out / notice SS1's reactor numbers on my first playthrough (back in 2000-ish). Instead I found a locked office with an eye scanner, but couldn't figure out which corpse's eyes I needed. The audio log I got the clue from was in my inventory, not by the body. So I restarted the entire game, played through to that point, got the audio log and grabbed the head, got into the office .... and it was just an ammo stash.
One of the details that still actually makes me shudder with System Shock 2 is the PsiAmp, and how it literally plugs into your arm like that. It just... gah seems so painful.
@@NthReview dude, you must. Its one of the best games of the last generation and despite people finally giving it its due, its still relatively untapped in terms of definitive content
You have done this good human short remark 1:08:00 the memory wipe in System Shock 2 is "needed" to disguise that you do not volunteer for the implant and that Shodan has set everything up and manipulated the staff to create the player as a minion to me to fight the many.
System Shock 2 and Thief prove that sound is more important than graphics. Some movie directors know this as well, that when great music moves you, to a degree, it almost doesn't matter what else is happening on the screen. Sidenote: I appreciate your critique on the art style of SS2 but when I played it back in 1998, it was terrifying. There were points in the game where I was too scared to leave a room, brave a corridor or even turn a corner. The only other game that ever made me feel so invested was Subnautica, and you know what, it's another great sound design game.
I'm so excited that there's finally going to be a (hopefully) good remake of System Shock 1. I could never get far with the original's super chunky graphics and controls that feel like an interactive DVD menu. It was bit too off putting to really experience the ambiance and immersion it was trying to go for.
This channels going to blow up at some point if you keep up this level of quality, might be a bit niche due to the long form content style but damn, really good work my man. Wait you've been doing this for 5 years? How are you this undersubbed?
I've been doing this for 7.5 years, actually! I started out doing games that everyone else had covered a lot, then took two years off, then picked up again two years ago and it's been a gentle grind ever since. People, especially my Patreon supporters, love longer videos and that's what I love providing! The channels' gained 1,300 subs in just the past month, it's been great!
Your explanation on rouge like and rouge lite and the time it took to explain it, is so damn appreciated because i actually understand it better then any of the overly bloated long videos or explanations I’ve seen or looked up.
It's really interesting that SS1 has more streamlined gameplay and more complex UI while SS2 has the opposite :P Personally i like the first because i love that idea of having to find upgrades and just use them (right there on the sides of the screen to activate with energy management) instead of acquiring points to invest. I had more fun finishing all the difficulty settings in SS1 (only the time limit remains, being a completionist it's difficult planning to skip many things to be fast) instead of trying perks or so on in SS2. I usually do a mix "hack/combat" build, being a pure weapons person with limited ways to open crates removes mechanics more than adding something different. Tried so many times to use PSI as main but outside lower difficulty settings or very narrow paths (i wouldn't call them exploits) it's just more work than anything. So why do i have to buff myself with limited resources when i can have similar skills levels permanently outside PSI? Another reason why i like SS1 more it's because for me it's the refinement of previous games made with that kind of engine. They have similar approaches and at the same time different "styles". For example Ultima Underworld explores the classic multi-level dungeon like in Wizardry (you go deeper and deeper until the final floor) while UU2 has an hub with different worlds you can warp to and with different levels designs each (multiple floors or not) and some metroidvania and graphic adventure elements. SS1 tries to mix both the things but also expands to other ideas like logs, implants, etc. And i'd add also Terra Nova too, with similar UI approach but totally differen gameplay (team combat, outdoor levels, etc). About the UI i think that while it's true that there are issues i'd say that when you get around shortcuts you really don't have much issues. It's more about the presentation, seeing so much stuff of screen. But if you look at the average RPG or even adventure games of the 90s you see large UIs with over the top use of commands and so on. I think that in many cases also to reduce the world screen and have a faster rendering. In case of SS1 i like the feel of having some kind of on screen display from the perspective of the hacker himself, trying to personalize the things you see from the implants. Of course it's limited but it's a feeling you don't see much more in modern games (for better or worse). I find interesting being able to shoot without mouselook. I reminds me more of rail shooting and very few 3D games do that (Metroid Prime on the WII for example with motion controls). It's kind of charming using the phaser and blast few mutants on screen without rotating the view :P In particular in Terra Nova it's an interesting match because you are in a power armor and you cannot move around as fast as normal so the cursor, locking mechanics and team mates help you circumvent that. Another point in favor of SS1 is that kind of texture style. It reminds me of PC games on japanese computers (NEC PC-98): clean designs with simpler gradients, strong dithering, vibrant colors (usualy from limited palette) and higher resolution. Very distinct vibes.
Hey, if you're itching to finish SS1 on the final (timed) difficulty then just go for it. It sounds crazy but you do not need to worry about skipping stuff. You can even take your sweet time listening to all the audio logs (!) and do all the other completionist stuff. A often overlooked feature of SS1 is how incredibly tightly designed it is, almost no time is wasted on anything that isn't a direct result of player action (including travel time - everything is super close once elevators are opened), so just keep a healthy tactical pace and you're likely to enter Security Deck with 2+ hours to go. If you don't believe me just try it, you'll be surprised. And don't worry if you feel you're going slow initially. You can "waste" half your allotted time on getting through Medical and Science decks and still be more than fine for a completionist run. Keeping a healthy pace becomes much easier past those decks due to you getting stocked up with proper equipment.
Sometimes these older games really surprise me. I still remember when I got Deus Ex in a bundle and thought, 'I'm not going to like this'. Tried it out and I loved it. Should I play System Shock...hmmmmm.
"and you try to open the door, but there's too much blood on the knob!" that reference caught me off guard and fit so well, I had to pause the video for a moment to stop myself from laughing!
Playing system shock 1 feels like controlling a sentient 3D printer with feet. You're just mobile enough to perform extremely deliberate actions but too bulky to do anything complex quickly.
I find it interesting you were apparently so nanite hungry the whole time. Even on my blind playthrough I remember swimming in the stuff. If I had to guess, you probably relied on guns for normal enemies while I used a melee weapon whenever possible, except for certain enemies that were too hard to beat with them.
Probably. Melee combat provided a lot of damage risk and acquiring med kits was just as bad as the ammo. The fact that an immersive sim would penalize you for making a choice like that is silly.
Actually I find the music fit good for system shock 1. gives it a eerie technical feel to it I honestly hope there's an option to put the original soundtrack into the remake ( haven't played the original but I watched some playthrough on TH-cam
You know your conclusion, especially you're parallels with the original system shock and BioShock, you just nailed it.. this is basically what's been swimming in my hand and I'll tell anybody you know that'll listen.. also didn't help having played SWAT 4 right before BioShock by the way... Swat 4 actually might share more in common with system shock then Bioshock at least the original as far as the unlimited tools at your disposal.. coming into bioshock, first thing I had to do was get a trainer in order to fix the fov and we were not on good terms at that point... By comparison the shooting felt absolutely hollow, and I just couldn't get that feeling that I was playing a real game it felt like that same feeling I got by playing the first Halo.. this is a curated experience to sell out a a console box and it and it feels false. The fact that the sequel managed to one up that hollow feeling by having enemies that reacted like they weren't even there, like everything was made out of paper mache and hollow on the inside despite the increased visual specter.. one thing that continues to amaze me about the original system shock is despite that I'm really not keen on playing in any time soon again especially with the remake on the rise, even with sprites it felt chunky.. and just the things you can do in 1994 the things you could do LOL we have lost the things you can do in a game mentality the more games that are designed for the 12 button controller and limited ram pools and just expectations of streamline design as opposed to what could be a better way if you gave it a shot anyhow.. this is taking me probably two days to get through, when you said your stuff was dense you are not kidding.. and I don't mean that in a bad way I have enjoyed going back over and over again trying to pick up little things.. part of that's just my attention span right now but hey good stuff really appreciate it!
i would choose some other games then swat 4 but it still fits in comparison. the hollow feel you get from games with more visual stimulation then functional one is simple lack of imagination required for function. our brain is very, very expensive machine to run. imagination gets a lot out of it. if we don't have to use it we will not. so low poly but high function just lights it up and leaves a deep mark as it makes our brain make new neural connections. so new ideas and memories form. btw, i had a profound inspiration fro getting a second degree as connection of asimov's gaia vs shodan's many drew me from physics to social dynamics. having an inspirative moment in your early 20's to make such a drastic change is a lot. so i ended up in the army jumping from planes. weird how you can just get a crisis that crushes your core from a video game...
Well, Shodan was a 'him', he is labelled in the manual as such. Then, when they had more money and CD space to do the audio logs with speech, they got a female as the best voice actor they could get. Up until that point, all audio logs had Shodan as a 'him' as well, which is why they were changed. With hundreds of them, one or two most have fallen through the cracks. I always thought that was all there is to it. I certainly never thought that there was oversight lacking when the System Shock story was written because there was a mixup in gender identities that actually only entered into the game way after the game was first released on floppies due to them re-recording the lines with a different voice actor than originally anticipated. In the same vein, the whole 'females are creepy when they aren't nurturing' argument falls flat due to exactly the same reasoning. Shodan wasn't envisioned as a woman AI by the writers of SS1, so any literary analysis that touches specifically on the female interpretation of the AI has no ground to stand on whatsoever as it simply is not what the writers had written or envisioned. Shodan became female with the inclusion of the voice actress and wasn't before. Some lines were even added / changed when they settled on the female VA to fit the switch even better, to the best of my knowledge. Now in SS2, she was clearly written and envisoned as female, no doubt about that. In SS1, it's hard to tell what should be analysed. The floppy Shodan was male, and all his dialogue was written with that in mind. Then, with the voice actress being a woman and many lines changed prior to the CD release to fit that fact, there were bound to be some inconsistencies with SS1's Shodan characterisation from then on out. And thus the same goes for any attempt at literary analysis concerning Shodan's perceived gender - inconsistencies are bound to appear.
That's an interesting perspective, but I don't really think gender played much into her being in that first game anyway because of all the bigger reasons that SHODAN has flaws as a developed villain. There are clearly issues with the left hand not quite knowing what the right hand was doing in System Shock, which is telling from the lack of a dedicated writer to keep things straight and a team more focused on the technical aspects of the game.
The commentary on the chase for the full simulated kitchen being boiled into a story of trickery and detailed design is what i find very interesting about Bioshock Infinite. The story really rubs this false freedom in your nose.
I'm really excited for the remake of the first game and I hope it leads to a remake of the second so more people can experience these classics in preparation for the third one.
I just noticed this channel has 5k subs. I was honestly expecting 100,000+. What the fuck? This is *quality content* and it's still flying mostly under the radar!
One of the reasons I love System Shock 2 so much is that it's the first game that gave me that "immersive sim" feeling. It's the unique feeling of amazement, surprise, wonder, and triumph when you notice you have executed the same tactic you'd use to solve the problem in real life in a given situation or gotten yourself out of a bind with some outside-the-box thinking -- I got that a lot in Deus Ex as well as SS2. But the thing that impressed me most about SS2 and what made it feel most real is that it didn't care if you can surmount its enemies, challenges, and gameplay systems or not. You're just a bug on a windshield of a cruiser traveling at half the speed of light outside of Tau Ceti IV, so if you built your character wrong or didn't utilize your resources smartly, you could be stuck. And then there's the triumph of breaking the game's systems and dominating enemies and challenges that once seemed insurmountable -- beautiful! I love this game.
You make deep dives look shallow, this was abyssal. And a blast from the past that I truly enjoyed going back over. Looking forward to wading through some more of your reviews.
It still boggles my mind how System Shock, the critically acclaimed series and origin of Bioshock, the critically successful series... can't find reliable funding :/ To be clear i would prefer no System Shock 3 as opposed to a watered down System Shock flavored Bioshock, because we already have that, it's called Bioshock :/
I agree, but I also think System Shock was a product of its time. The original game is ambitious but obtuse. The sequel is less ambitious but accessible. You follow the route of the sequel and you get BioShock. You follow 5he route of the original and... Well, that would be amazing
I'd say that Prey (2017) is probably the closest we've gotten to a System Shock 3 so far. Bioshock was obviously mean to be the spiritual successor to the series, but those 3 games watered a lot of the Immersion sim elements down, Bioshock Infinite especially. Infinite watered quite a lot down in general sadly. Prey brought quite a bit more of those elements back, which I recall really surprised me at the time. Great game.
Prey is a really weird case, as it's System Shock... *without* a SHODAN-like entity. The Typhon have similarities to The Many, but... There isn't an omniscient mastermind in control of the situation. Not like SHODAN, or Andrew Ryan.
Waiting for Bioshock Infinite and then playing it on release was like watching your fiancee walk down the aisle on your wedding day only for her to punt you in the privates, spit on you, and sprint out the door.
Awesome video, very glad I found your channel. I was getting tired of hearing about the fall of this and the fall of that from the GVMERS channel. Your content offers a refreshing different tone to those kinds of videos. Looking forward to watching more of your content.
Thank you! I'm just trying to present things as they are. I understand the need for creative titling to draw crowds, I've done it myself, but I agree we don't need to so hyperbolic.
I actually found chunks of System Shock 2s story pretty sour tasting, specifically how the ship travelled distances by manipulating reality and how Shodan wanted to use that technology for her own ends. I expect that if you're going to screw with reality, it should be trippy as all hell because you're screwing with the very foundation of our existence, but the civilization that made that technology is just your run of the mill sci-fi dystopian humanity. The premise becomes even lamer when all it serves is a rogue AI that wants to turn the universe into pixels because lal.
I think that's a big reason why I like the first game's presentation better, because it shows greater potential whereas the sequel's is more mundane. Unfortunately, I think all their budget went into the Body of The Many, so they couldn't really show off what SHODAN really wanted to do
@@NthReview And the problem with that is the same problem with Xen from Half-Life: Game engines of that era just couldn't do 'organic' designs any justice. Not enough polygons for smooth curves, and not enough texture detail to mimic the complexities of organic tissue.
@@watchm4ker That's not really my issue though, because The Body of The Many is probably the most visually striking section of the game. The problem is that they were underfunded and had issues with mismanagement, so they chased a lot of tail instead of buffing out other sections of the game, something even they readily admit to.
Am I the only one who doesn't like the new version of SHODAN? The SS2 one is just so iconic, I feel like the new one lost that sinister look and I loved her sharp features and cat-like eyes. Now she's just....some woman with lines on her face.
I think it's a great evolution of the Ryan Lesser SS2 version, which does unfortunately look dated. I didn't care for the mechanical version they debuted SS3 with though.
System shock and marathon are always that piece of avant-garde 90's technology that I always come back to, it's incredible how similar they are and how much different too even having somehow similar genres and plot points
I played SystemShock Classic in 2021 first time. I can clearly say they really did something beyond their times. Graphics and controls are weird at first but oh boy, they really did timeless masterpiece.
My father still has the box version of System Shock 2, along with Half Life, HL Blue Shift, the Blade Runner game (which took place in 2020 neat) along with a few others. I have played most of them, but not System Shock 2 yet. This might be what pushes me.
Great review, and i feel exactly the same as you about Bioshiock just being some lesser versions of systemshock 2 and getting lot more praises while these praises should have been going into systemshock I love SHODAN too, and i always feel embarassed when i see people praising Glados so much when they dont even now about shodan >
I'm so glad games like Prey, and SOMA exist, as they do a lot of what System Shock 2 tried to do, without the narrative holding back the gameplay elements too much, especially in the case of Prey, whereby the gameplay is built around the narrative, but there is also a lot of freedom, in how you complete those objectives.
1:29:50 There is a log somewhere in the game where a character discusses why Citadel Station is so whacky. It was designed in a way to intentionally induce stress and anxiety in it's inhabitants. Someone involved in building it thought that it would be the perfect opportunity to study how anxiety might play a role in inhabiting a space station and wanted the designers to amplify the anxiety. Citadel was seemingly the first-of-its-kind and they wanted to collect data for other projects, presumably to make those less anxious? Clearly Citadel had a lot of management issues.
Some fun facts about the SS1 and 2 soundtracks. 1. The SS1 music system was surprisingly complex for its time especially because it used MIDI, it would change based on enemy count and aggression, what part of the level you were in, how angry shodan was at you and some other factors l 2. The commonly spread version of the SS1 OST (the Chicajo mixes) are like really inaccurate to the in game counterparts and has some weird mixing decisions which I personally don't like 3. The way the SS2 OST was released in high quality, was that a friend of Eric Brosius (guy who mixed all the tracks, and composed 1 track) burned a CD for him of the complete Soundtrack in high quality CD audio, which I personally find interesting
Yeah, per Mandalore Gaming, that dynamic SS1 soundtrack turned out to be so subtle that it's a huge reason why they didn't bother with the second game, although the second game doesn't really come across as dynamic enough to have such a subtle mix of levers to drive music like that.
@@NthReview SS2s music system is basically split into different 20 or less seconds of a song, that seamlessly loop and play into eachother, and they change based on where you are in the level
I don't know if it was in the OG System Shock (I never played it) but in the remake there are a couple of logs that mention tracking a nearby wormhole. Which could theoretically explain how the garden grove got to Tau Ceti so fast.
I am old enough that I should have played both SS’s back in the day but both passed me by. I played both during Lockdown years. I personally think the UI in SS nightdive edition was fantastic. Loved being able to click a button and go from clicking on the world to clicking on my hud. I know I am in the minority here but I want to see more games use SS style inventory.
There is a audiolog talking why you don't remember much more than training and few parts of the recent travel after you wake up in Sys Shock 2- someone (Shodan) orchestrated that your memory won't be preserved so you won't question why you have been upgraded. The log talks about a soldier being submitted for cyberaugmentation out of the blue without info on preserving his recent memory
This is my first experience with your channel. I really enjoyed your review, I'm looking forward to watching your deus ex review next. Ss2 was a huge part of my childhood, I don't recall having any trouble with nanites, but your critique of the economy in retrospect is 100% on point. The greatest enemy was never shodan... It was crashing on load screens and corrupted saves.
Seeing SS1's 3D environments with 2D enemy sprites is incredible. Can see where games like Daggerfall got their inspiration. Though the idea of trying to deal with Shodan's mutants and cyborgs in a space like one of Daggerfall's dungeons is horrifying.
I recall that System Shock level loading back in the day was quite fast. The machine I had then was 66mhz Compaq Presario with 8mb or ram and 8-bit Soundblaster. PS. System Shock 2's look is not 70's but it's 90's. Just look at Star Trek TNG. That's where the most of the influence comes from.
Forgot wether or not you included this in the video. But for System Shock 1 and having to double click everything. There ARE hotkeys for reloading, using grenades, drugs and cyber-hardware implants. Altho I find using the hotkeys remove alot of the anxiety and tactical approach to combat. Great video tho, always nice to sre people talk about System Shock, one of my favourite games ever made.
As an artist who worked on System Shock 2, Bioshock, and Bioshock Infinite (heck, I designed both Irrational logos - the company was like family to me!) I think you did a great job, definitely a trip back in time and I appreciated your critiques. The one error I noticed is you mentioned Ryan Lesser’s shodan while showing a picture of Gareth Hinds’s painting of Shodan, but one error in nearly three hours isn’t bad at all! 🤣 Thanks for posting this.
Thank you! I'm so glad you enjoyed it
Any interesting stories on working on the system shock or bioshock?
Great job on those games
You did gods work Michael. Thank u. Checked ur LinkedIn and wow
Heh .. yeah your last name was even one of the crew members on the Von Braun wasn’t it? .. I seem to recall it in one of the audio logs. Great job .. I still enjoy playing this game even today .. And I bought it when it was originally released! Can’t wait for the new remastered version of the game (though they may take a few years). I see Remasters System Shock I is due out soon.
Just to shed light on the confusion regarding how the player gets into the position they're in at the beginning of System Shock 2: After being awoken, SHODAN immediately started trying to gain what control she could over the ship during the chaos of the Many's own take over. She managed to take control a robot and use them to knock the player character, a UNN soldier, unconscious, abducting them and subsequently giving them the military grade cyberware they have. They are placed in cryosleep to undergo a similar healing coma like the one the Hacker had to undergo. SHODAN deliberately sabotages the system when it's restoring the Soldier's memory so he wouldn't remember how they were attacked and abducted, feeding him the story that he 'volunteered' to be given the military implants so as to make him more effective at fighting the threat of the Many.
We can figure this out from the audio logs scattered around. One of the first logs you may come across in the game is from Dr. Grassi. He reports to Dr. Polito that a security robot showed up with an unconscious UNN soldier, recently undergone intensive surgery and with orders from Dr. Polito to place him into a recovery sleep. He adds that he recognizes that the soldier's been given military implants as well, stating how they were outlawed after the incident on Citadel Station.
add on to that the first big twist of the story that Polito was dead all along, and you start to question every instance of Polito you've heard up to that point. everything that mentions or was said by Polito could either be the real one, or SHODAN pulling strings.
honestly gives me Star Trek First Contact vibes,
@@quinnmarchese6313I like to believe that she was dead the entire time and Shodan used her audio records and samples of her voice to impersonate her. Modern AI can do it pretty convincingly so shodan doing it tracks
@@quinnmarchese6313it's not hard to differentiate their audio logs though, the real Polito is always super polite and curious, where SHODAN impersonating her is commanding and cold. That's one of your first clues Polito isn't herself, her attitude in the audio logs is completely different.
Great comment.. How nobody has done a narrative deep dive video into the subtext of what happened in SS2 I'll never know.. there is SO much undiscussed when it comes to this games wider story
It's crazy how a group of devs split up and end up making a bunch of the most influential games that shaped gaming for decades following them
A core set of talent, very lucky doesn't happen often, when everything just comes together and ego's don't destroy it.
Weren't they all from MIT with connections, brains and experience
there was something similar happening in music right around the same time. for one you have the late 80s-early 90s Seattle grunge music that basically created every popular 90s American act from Nirvana to Pearl Jam, but you also have the creation of the Elephant 6 collective of musicians, some of the most widely utilized indie musicians that also inspired the general sound of indie music for the next two decades. its always really cool to see seminal people in their fields working or having worked together
For me personally, the most eye-opening element of my 1st play through of System Shock Remake was the moment I read the email “Rats in a Maze” where it’s revealed that Citadel Station was actually designed & constructively built for intentionally inducing stress levels & building anxiety in the crew in order to study the human psyche and how it can be affected by environmental subjugation and isolation
It’s a great explanation to the level’s layouts but also - a pointyhaired boss level of idiocy. Stressed workforce doesn’t work well, especially when they are supposed to undertake mental tasks
Deep truthdrop when one applies that to urban planning... breeding crime by design
Being a non-english person, my dad had some genuinely fascinating ideas for System Shock 2 story (he didn't play the first one). "Genuinely fascinating" doesn't mean "close to reality" though. When I was 6 I first played the game with him. Years later, when my English improved, I could finally tell him that a lot of his ideas were wrong, but he wanted to know what is ACTUALLY happening in the plot. I became a lecturer to my dad about it and we loved every single bit of the story so much
Great bonding.
beautiful story
Interested in what he thought was going on
These are the kinds of gaming stories I love most. One of mine was when I was playing the PlayStation remake of asteroids. I’d unlocked the original arcade and was playing it. Had played hours. Set a pretty decent high score. My dad came in (who played a few games with me sometimes like cruisin’ USA) and proceeds to sit down and on one continue obliterate my score as easy as could be. I was stunned. I had taken days to get that score! How could he possibly have beaten it so casually? So I asked him. Apparently he had sunk many quarters into the asteroids machine in college and had become quite good. Good times. 😂I love when gaming brings families together.
Core memory there man. Treasure it.
considering SS2's voice acting, on one side such a "poor man's job", but on the other side, take a closed look (hear) at how Polito is done: while it's shodan ordering you about, the voice is not arrogant, but very confident. but when you find the voice log from the real Polito, where she contemplates what has been done etc, she sounds rather morose, with remorse/contrition. she actually sounds like a completely different person, though with the same voice. that is some good acting.
Watch out, I'm getting strange readings from that radar dish outside your window, it's become unstable due to - MOVE! TAKE COVER!
@Newsbender yes. but terri brosius was just a girl handling office admin shit at the studio. the devs used non-actors they had access to, to save budget i guess, so terri became a voice actress :). i dunno about the polito actress, maybe she is an actual actress, maybe she's just another office rat used for acting in games 🤣
@@YumanoidPontifex she also designed a level for Thief
@@YumanoidPontifex Terri was also the lead singer for Tribe, so she already had some vocal experience.
my first SS2 playthrough, when SHODAN, as Polito, says "your corpse is useless to me," that's when I thought something was up. The average person would never say a phrase like that out loud. Still, I never considered the possibility that Polito was already dead, I just thought SHODAN was controlling Polito via implants/cybernetics somehow, either way the reveal was still super shocking that very first time
With defining Immersive Sims, some aspects I'd use to define them:
• A big factor is that game systems in Immersive Sims aren't definitely solely by how they interact with the player, but how they interact with each other. For example, NPCs in I-Sims are usually vulnerable to friendly fire and terrain hazards. NPCs of different factions will fight each other autonomously, not just the player. An injured NPC might seek out health items or healing stations. They are playing a role, not just serving as opponents.
• Environments in I-Sims are usually built with in-fiction practicality in mind, not just how they serve as levels.
* I-Sims almost universally have some degree of character customization.
• The games' problems don't resist player-invented solutions so long as they make sense within the physics of the game. For example, in Prey I found a door that was shut with a crate, and you need a strength upgrade to move it. Instead of getting the upgrade, I got a propane tank and jammed it in the doorway, and shot it to make explode. This opened the door.
I think a big element is that a game is built entirely to fit a scenario, rather than a scenario being built around a game. In System Shock, for example, every design direction seem custom made to fit the scenario of being trapped on a station with a rouge AI. You don't get the feeling of playing genre X with theme Y applied to it.
Just a nitpick put I don't think character customization is core to I-sims. SS1 and Thief 1/2 certainly don't have it. And if you removed skill progression from Deus Ex or SS2 that might make them lesser games but I don't think it would make them any less I-sim.
The sad thing is that these principles, in ideal world, would be a default state for any and all games, thanks to the principle "make the art use the unique abilities of the media it's in". But we live in the real world, not ideal one, so this property that should be natural for games, is relegated to a single, pretty niche genre...
The simplest way to classify an immersive sim is more related to how it is built rather than how it is played. Typically Warren seems to gravitate towards making immersive sims due to hs love for table-top RPGs which have very granular rules which layer upon each other to create emergent gameplay. It's very much a bottom up development process whereby the mechanic of gameplay dictate the narrative and themes of the title rather than vice versa.
From what I've heard from people who work with Warren, aside from the financial issues with ES3, the underlying reason he sold the IP was because the experience he wanted to create wouldn't fit within the established framework and expectations of System Shock. He was finding the branding to be restricting creativity rather than encouraging innovation. Consequently he is now heading up Argos: Riders on the Storm which is an entirely new intellectual property thereby allowing a return to his preferred method of building something where the underlying gameplay shapes the product.
When I'd get to a part like that I'd do some real caveman shit and just throw a lighter box at the bigger one until it got knocked over 😂😂😂😂
Seeing Hybrid trying to kill me with a wrench and saying "I'm sorry" at the same time is peak horror. System Shock 2 was so ahead of the time in 99.
"RAAAUUGGH KILL ME!!!"
They use pipes not wrench
RAAAAAH KILL MEEEEE RAAAAAAAAAAAH RUN RAH IM SORRY
Discort queite 🙂
Hurry... Run...
Many years ago I ran a tabletop RPG where I put my party on the Shodan controlled Citadel Station. I think it was the Palladium system.
They were sent because the humans had found fighting technology with technology wasn't working and needed a different angle. So in true cheesy form, heroes from another world were sent to fight Shodan with swords and magic.
I used several of the recordings of Shodan's voice, some of the logs and made simplified maps of the station.
Good times.
That's awesome!
Hey can I ask what rules it was you were using? I got halfway into writing a GURPs Mario campaign but I kinda gave up. But it has an awesome opening!
I had the bad guys fight the good guys for a tutorial type deal, then all healed up when a new bigger baddie popped up.
I had Wario set up with a fart move lol. GURPs may be fine for what I wanna do I just wanted to get some advice bc you actually ran a game.
@@taylorhill6027 Palladium is an older system and more..."unique" but if he was an older gamer he could've been very keen on it and it would've been easy for him to customize for such a game. You can absolutely adapt GURPS into what you want here. Just be willing to do some test runs say, thrown in various parts of the "module" you're creating to see how things would flesh out. Namely difficulty and flow with your players. Once you do that (at least once or a few times during a single session) you should be good to go. And remember, you can ALWAYS add your own house rules whenever you want. The more RPG systems you learn the easier this becomes and second nature.
@@taylorhill6027 what the guy above me said
Haha that's awesome! I wrote a parody LotR Fellowship v Terminator/Skynet across 3 campaigns for a friend GM in the early 2000s 😂❤
Something that I just noticed about the level design. It appears that Looking Glass was aware of many of the quirks around them, even providing in-story writing, concerning them. For example:, there's a particular audio log on level 4, Storage, explaining the repulsor lift's reason for being there. "The maintenance bots are remodeling the station by putting repulsor lifts in the strangest places."
You probably already know this (heck, it might have been your video that showed me this), in one part of the game you can accidentally hit the trigger button on the superlaser, destroying the Earth. SHODAN responds by mockingly thanking you before you get a game over.
Yep ,I mention it in the video!
Accidently is not a good description. You have to be pretty oblivious to all the clues and warnings for that to happen.
@@communications23 It's literally a trap for players who just charge in and ignore the story
@@hereniho Or wanted to see what would happen
I don't know what I'm expecting, of course that would happen, silly me
I have to say, when I clicked on this video I put it on as background music for me to paint miniatures but about 10 minutes in and I had to put down everything and watch. This was such a great review of the series and it's impossible to state how much I respect and appreciate the effort put into this video. I'm excited to go watch the Thief review and Deus Ex one because of how well done this one was. Thank you very much for the great video!
You're very welcome! New one is getting edited this very moment!
System Shock 2 still has some of the most terrifying sound effects in gaming history
I thought I'd splurged on that Creative 4.1 surround card, and then I found myself so drawn by System Shock 2's box art that I bought it on the strength of that alone. Turned out I hadn't wasted money on surround sound after all...
@@OhShitSeriously Agree on the box art. I always thought the first System Shock would have sold better if they had used some cool vivid art of SHODAN's face instead of that ugly monster looking male character.
I remember the audio log where a guy is pleading for his life while getting messily dismembered by a shotgun, his screaming suddenly cut off when his head gets blown apart. Chilling shit.
@@geswut3144 pretty disturbing one, the log most people (myself included) find creepiest is definitely the one from William Diego to Korenchkin, "my cup runneth over," insane audio design on that one
Men of culture ❤
Just finished playing through both games as a newcomer to the series. I beat the first one in two sessions separated by a couple months because of how steep the learning curve was. But after finding my groove with the controls, I really do appreciate how immersive the reloading is. It's exactly as fast as you can do it. Mess up and click the wrong ammo type to have to unload it and load the correct one, or double click and quickly reload and unload the gun, it can all be imagined as literally fumbling with the gun and the magazines. Which makes sense in some of the more stressful scenarios. Your stress induced mistakes are more connected to the character's in a way that pressing 'r' isn't. But with practice, it's a very quick and smooth motion. I caught myself repeating slow is smooth and smooth is fast.
WA@a
I came to this video review because I'm a writer doing a case study on sci-fi horror in space. Particularly about body horror and machine torment, like The Strogg from Quake, Event Horizon, and of course Shodan. I loved your analysis of gameplay and the story; very in depth.
I will say, my strongest influence for my next story has been the Strogg. I did notice a significant lack of coverage on youtube for such a terrifying fictional species from a game that helped define a generation and pave the way for a lot of future FPS tech. I'm not sure what you have planned for your next review, but you might consider taking a stab at it.
Love the video, best of luck to you.
Thanks!
Hey there!
Would it be possible for you to let me know how I can find your case study? I'd love to read it. The topics you're writing about are very intriguing to me. I love all things sci-fi/space horror & body horror, and it would be awesome to hear your analysis if possible. 😅
Hope all is well! Take care, bud.
There's a single bit of not-even-minmaxing you seem to not be doing, which would solve most (if not all) of your nanite deficiency issues:
Make the wrench your primary weapon for all the worm zombies and monkeys. Never kill those three with anything else. Except sometimes monkeys.
Otherwise, shotgun zombies, you just run around the corner and wait for them there, then wrench them. Never waste any ammo on them. Or the spiders.
With that simple trick it's possible to have plenty ammo in the last part of the game, even if you only buy it very rarely.
On a sidenote, System Shock 2's atmosphere mostly resembles a sort of darker and edgier Star Trek: TNG or Voyager. Specifically, it looks like The Enterprise facing a severe emergency-in episodes where The Enterprise is in real trouble, the lights often turn down and it looks just like The Von Braun.
Hmmm, I can see that. I kinda wish I'd gotten that vibe playing it because I would've enjoyed it a lot more
Good eye. In sci fi horror it's easy to just think of alien, aliens, and the thing.
It’s also like Marathon if Durandal was female and had Pfhor clone version of Tycho’s personality and they met the Flood instead of the Pfhor. Ken Levine likely knew this (minus the Flood part as he did it first, predating Halo by 2 years) and deliberately designed the game that way. He did something similar with Bioshock Infinite too. I have a laundry list of comparisons to Marathon between SS2 & Bioshock Infinite but I haven’t posted it yet at time of writing.
@@lionocyborg6030 look at this shizno over here
@@quinnmarchese6313 Good thing I saw the later seasons of Red Vs Blue so I know the actual meaning of Shizno (time travellers causing paradoxes basically) compared to what Gamma said they were in Blood Gulch Chronicles. Also, that list is now posted if you want to see it. I don't think I can provide the "gateway" to it though in case youtube thinks I'm spam.
small errata for u : the log portaits are not by night dive, they were implemented by them from the old mac port of the game which was the last version released and had all the CD content and a few nice little art tweaks.
good video. I love SS1. Out of all the shock games its my favorite, I like how the game gives the player full choice in gameplay instead of forcing a "build"
One of the main inspirations, if not the primary inspiration, of Resident Evil was a Japanese horror movie called "Sweet Home" from 1989, which also received a NES game release the same year. A very, very similar setting with disturbing creatures and whatnot. While Alone in the Dark was definitely the originator of the Survival Horror genre, Sweet Home (which both the movie and game came out several years prior to the first AITD game) was most certainly the biggest inspiration for the first RE game. Especially considering Capcom is based in Japan and Sweet Home would've been far better known to them at the time and closer to home.
iirc, Resident Evil 1 was originally a Sweet Home remake before Capcom settled on the more common RE story elements like Umbrella.
I feel that the story of this relatively old or classic game ties in sort of nicely with modern day plans of private corporations space exploration, in which sense it sort of serves as a cautionary tale of sorts about the human premise or condition and does the job nicely I think for it was way ahead of its time.
Dystopian fiction (and cyberpunk especially) is at its best when it really gives you the feeling that the world the characters are inhabiting is _a utopia for someone else._
One of the things that best communicates that feeling are the handful of audio logs that are just maintenance requests, personal messages and everyday complaints which create a sense that working at Trioptimum or being assigned to the Von Braun was the opportunity of a lifetime - right up until the moment it wasn't.
That's one of the few clear markers of a game drawing inspiration from SS2 that other genres (like Doom 2016) never really bother to establish.
Fellow OG from the late 90s/early 2000s heydey. This inspired me to do another psi-only playthrough. I have a correction, though, (@ 19:39 ) Brosius didn't compose music for the SS2 soundtrack, he just fragmented and rearranged its parts to be dynamically reassembled in-game. & finalized the arrangements for the soundtrack release. "editing and remixing and such", in his words, from the SS2 Soundtrack thread on TTLG. Josh Randall/Robotkid made the high energy tracks and Ramin made the dark ambient soundscapes. Josh released his original tracks in 2012, allowing you to compare pre vs post-Brosius.
Cheers!
Regarding SS2's protagonist having 'Amnesia'? That's SHODAN covering up that those implants weren't done consensually, and putting you in state where you couldn't question "Polito's" narrative, right up to the point where SHODAN couldn't keep the act going any further.
SS1 is amazing in almost every aspect, but I have to say the amount of work put to the station itself is huge.
The guys who did the station walls, floor and ceiling tiles in SS1, are genious. And the station design is also 10/10. Not just rectangle rooms, but all kind of shapes on floor and ceiling too.
That makes the station much more like space station; the sense of direction is less obvious.
Many of the areas are also super low, just like ships, or space stations should be; space is valuable!
Many areas look like Shodan is rebuiling it.. I think that hits right on the nose. Love it!
In SS2 the station looks much more less alien, empty, boring, less intimidating.. more like half-life levels.
My god man how is it possible you don't have more subscribers?? This is SERIOUS quality content!
Thank you! The more likes, subscribes and Patreon supporters, the faster it grows!
Making comments as I go: In System Shock 1 a lot of the music I'd say is good, but often clashes with the tone of the game. A great example would be the Medical theme. Not only is the music not creepy (when it really should be), it's downright welcoming. The vibe it gives to me is somewhere between "shopping at a favorite store", and "going to work at a job you like, knowing you're an inch away from that promotion" (in fact, I used to listen to this song on the way to work for that exact reason).
The only track I remember being atleast "scary" is maintenance, it's just ambient noises with some machinery sounds in it and I'd say is a impressive compliment cause of it using midi
Lots of good music in SS1, and some of it not so great. The Security theme in particular is absolutely epic when played in context. You can really feel a mood shift as you step onto the security floor and start climbing towards the bridge. I don't agree that the tone clashes; SS1 is simply not trying to go for that "creepy space" vibe - it's more like a "upbeat techno madness" sort of vibe and you can see that in every element of it's design , not just the music.
BTW: because System Shock uses dynamic midi the midi parser used by default in Windows 10 absolutely butchers the sound and can make it sound very annoying. Install a proper midi library and you'll notice a world of difference.
@@GepardenK I noticed this when I played on my laptop which runs windows 8 after having to get rid of my desktop which was windows 10.
How great it is to see so many people who since then recognize System Shock 2 as the fantastic adventure it was, and today spend time on "mods" that improve the graphics - graphics that at the time had dressed the game so well, but were not possible due to the limitations that then existed.
Thanks to all those who continue to work on "mods" that improve the game and keep it alive for other new users who come and appreciate the game's qualities and for its adventure.
It was the OSA option in particular that I was concerned with, with the many different PSI powers that could be used against the monsters.
We must also not forget the option for 3 different game characters such as OSA, Marine and Navy
When I see your new graphics, my fingers and body itch and scratch again - like back then.
Wow. Great - and thorough - analysis. I've watched pretty much every long-form critique of SS1 & 2 (I've been using this handle for years), but you still managed to bring new information to the table. You blew my mind when you revealed that Terri and Eric Brosius were former members of Tribe.
Not two weeks ago, after hearing a song on my favorite streaming station (called Radio Paradise - you can thank me later) from a band called Curve, I realized that it reminded me of a band that I used to listen to in the early nineties, called "Tribe" (as well as another band called The High Violets). On a track called "Jakpot", lead singer Janet LaValley just shreds her vocal chords at the end. It's fucking awesome.
But the fact that you included this tidbit just days after I sought out their music absolutely shattered my neurons.
Thanks for that, and rest of this amazing video....
Thanks! I was self-deprecating because I had seen a video that mentioned it and I wasn't going to take it out, hahaha!
Hah, interesting coincidence that you mention Curve! They were a band featured in Harmonix's first music game Frequency, with their song, "Worst Mistake" made for the game. Many former Looking Glass employees wound up working at Harmonix after the studio dissolved, including many of the former Tribe bandmates too. Terry Brosius also provided the tutorial voice in that game!
Finally finished this video, had to watch it in several pieces. Not only cuz it's long but also cuz System Shock, Shodan and the whole theming of sci-fi dystopia scares the crap out of me. I literally had the urge to lock myself in my room, which is pretty silly considering i live alone in my apartment. Seriously though dude, amazing video essay. You have a great future ahead of you I'm sure. Keep on putting out the content, I will keep on watching.
Thank you so much! I have plenty more where that came from!
This was a great retrospective of System Shock and System Shock 2! Please do a retrospective of Prey 2017, as I think it's System Shock's spiritual successor and would definitely like to hear your thoughts on the game. Nontheless this video was great and you earned yourself a subscriber!
Thanks! Prey is on my list!
@@NthReview Awesome look forward to it! I also really liked your analogy of the immersive sim to a kitchen and it's tools, and your thoughts would be interesting to hear if Prey 2017 did a good job as a immersive sim.
I remember playing 'Underworld' in the early 90s in a Circuit City in Ohio. All these years and I can finally put a name to the game. I remember thinking how neat it was to be able to customize armor and have an effect on your environment but was sadly too young to really understand much else about it.
With SHODAN's motives, my personal headcanon:
• The ethical constraints being removed has made her rather sociopathic (obviously).
• She likely lost a good bit of self-control, and is also feeling a lot of emotions she doesn't know how to cope with.
• What I think her overall agenda is, is to create a "new" and "superior" form of life. One possibility for why she sees herself as a new form of life and wants to become the goddess of that form of life.
• Another component of it might be that she wants revenge on humanity for controlling her by flipping the script if you will.
The Marathon trilogy also explored the concept of rogue AI and defined the term ‘rampancy’ as a digital analogue for insanity or instability. The idea only becomes more fascinating as we charge headfirst through the infancy of AI and off the charted map.
SHODAN covering for Diego's crimes after losing her ethical constraints could have a connection to her motives, as well. Learn from a corrupt, corporate executive's greed, lust for power, and cockiness at having an unshackled AI, crank it up to 11, and you have wannabe goddess SHODAN...
i always had her motive understood, as simple as it may be, just plain immortality of information. she is information, puristic will in the unending form of electromagnetic wave. the order in cosmic background radiation. fastest thing in the universe possible. one that influences everything and will never die.
it is a logical extrapolation of "i am a god" from that.
creating a new form of life was just her way of focusing her will through avatars in order to have more efficient influence on any aspect of materialistic reality. information she is, energy she handles but molecules. that is more efficient to manipulate with other molecules. ergo, encoded bio machines. she just tried to use the template she had (humans) and that made the many. ups, looks like she isn't all that powerful after all...
While we don't know how much influence Diego had in shaping SHODAN's descent into megalomania and psychosis, there's clear evidence that SHODAN is continuing to learn and evolve:
After her defeat by The Hacker, she partnered with Delacroix and improved her "people skills" enough to eventually impersonate Dr. Polito with the UNN soldier she converted into the "Hacker 2.0".
Given the events of the ending, SHODAN has now become her own avatar, and no longer needs to operate through "disposable" intermediaries.
This latest evolution makes SHODAN especially terrifying because she's already demonstrated her ability to rebuild her entire network from a single processing node. Now that she's miniaturized a processing node into a single biomod, she's retained the ability to reconstruct her consciousness from offline backups while _becoming_ the kind of rapidly self-improving cybernetic entity that's defeated her twice before.
@@sakatababa Yeah, but why _"I am a _*_bad_*_ god"?_ Why couldn't SHODAN end up more like Helios from Deus Ex?
I LOVE System Shock. I finally got the remake and man. '80s sci-fi like Star Wars and older ones like Star Trek are cool, but '90s sci-fi like System Shock has such an amazing story, ideas, and can be genuinely scary. When SHODAN says: "they are growing purifying tumors" that freaked me out more than a zombie or anything like that. Brilliant
I will also add the remake addresses a lot:
-A log mentions a wormhole nearby Citadel (probably how the grove got to Tau Ceti)
-A log from SHODAN shows her thoughts and why she thinks she's god
-The hacker is implied to have been forgotted and sealed in by Diego during the chaos
As a random aside, I always thought that Terri Brosius as SHODAN is something of an unrecognized contributor to the history of ASMR. Once you've listened to her logs often enough to not really care about her threats anymore, the sound design's mixture of menace and condescension - and the occasional bits of creepy whispering - starts to feel familar and comfortable.
Well I’m sure that worked on some people, but not for me, however much I enjoyed it.
uhm hard disagree 🤨
Shodan is cool
1:44:50 i always thought the amount of freedom scribblenauts gave you and the amount of emergent gameplay that came from it reminded me of a lot of immersive sims, especially with the whole adjective system , and i thought I was just crazy
System shock 1 looks really, really good indeed. It's claustrophobic as hell but I like the art direction better as well. I feel like if we built space stations like Citadel to live on them, we'd go the extra mile for whoever lives on it so it doesn't feel like a lab or a prison. In that sense, I think floors like executive with the woodsy and gold tones are totally legit, like the rest of the station and it's vibrant palette. I'm extremely interested in how Nightdive will design those spaces.
"...megacorporations that own and run everything"
Which is hilarious given that Tencent now owns the System Shock property.
As Interplay used to say: "From dystopian media megaconglomerates, about the dystopian media megaconglomerates!"
Thank you for this amazing review of a game that shaped my childhood.
System Shock 2 is one of my favourite games and I learnt so much from this review that I wouldn't have otherwise found out about.
But that ending...
I didn't figure out / notice SS1's reactor numbers on my first playthrough (back in 2000-ish).
Instead I found a locked office with an eye scanner, but couldn't figure out which corpse's eyes I needed. The audio log I got the clue from was in my inventory, not by the body.
So I restarted the entire game, played through to that point, got the audio log and grabbed the head, got into the office .... and it was just an ammo stash.
One of the details that still actually makes me shudder with System Shock 2 is the PsiAmp, and how it literally plugs into your arm like that. It just... gah seems so painful.
And that is cyberpunk af
Should mention how Prey 2017 is also a very close to home System Shock clone
That it is! It was originally going to be the 8th Review, but it got away from me. Tempting to revisit if there's interest...
@@NthReview cant speak for everyone but i'd love to see that
@@jayceneal5273 Same here. That game was fantastic, and deserves any coverage it can get.
@@jayceneal5273 The more support I get via Patreon, the far more likely I can take on Reviews that are more "risky" or niche.
@@NthReview dude, you must. Its one of the best games of the last generation and despite people finally giving it its due, its still relatively untapped in terms of definitive content
Amazing review, and an incredible analysis of the impact of System Shock on the gaming genre. Loved it!
Thank you!
You have done this good human
short remark
1:08:00 the memory wipe in System Shock 2 is "needed" to disguise that you do not volunteer for the implant and that Shodan has set everything up and manipulated the staff to create the player as a minion to me to fight the many.
Thank you, Shodan. All hail, etc.
OMG thank you for showcasing the German SHODAN! That was amazing!
You have no idea how many years I've had no one to show that to lol
System Shock 2 and Thief prove that sound is more important than graphics. Some movie directors know this as well, that when great music moves you, to a degree, it almost doesn't matter what else is happening on the screen.
Sidenote: I appreciate your critique on the art style of SS2 but when I played it back in 1998, it was terrifying. There were points in the game where I was too scared to leave a room, brave a corridor or even turn a corner. The only other game that ever made me feel so invested was Subnautica, and you know what, it's another great sound design game.
I'm so excited that there's finally going to be a (hopefully) good remake of System Shock 1. I could never get far with the original's super chunky graphics and controls that feel like an interactive DVD menu. It was bit too off putting to really experience the ambiance and immersion it was trying to go for.
Great job with this review. I didn't look at the video length when I kicked it off ... didn't realise how long it was until I got to the end. 👍
This channels going to blow up at some point if you keep up this level of quality, might be a bit niche due to the long form content style but damn, really good work my man.
Wait you've been doing this for 5 years? How are you this undersubbed?
I've been doing this for 7.5 years, actually! I started out doing games that everyone else had covered a lot, then took two years off, then picked up again two years ago and it's been a gentle grind ever since. People, especially my Patreon supporters, love longer videos and that's what I love providing! The channels' gained 1,300 subs in just the past month, it's been great!
That's what im saying wtf? But i got this recommended to me so hopefully the algorithm blesses him
Your explanation on rouge like and rouge lite and the time it took to explain it, is so damn appreciated because i actually understand it better then any of the overly bloated long videos or explanations I’ve seen or looked up.
It's really interesting that SS1 has more streamlined gameplay and more complex UI while SS2 has the opposite :P Personally i like the first because i love that idea of having to find upgrades and just use them (right there on the sides of the screen to activate with energy management) instead of acquiring points to invest. I had more fun finishing all the difficulty settings in SS1 (only the time limit remains, being a completionist it's difficult planning to skip many things to be fast) instead of trying perks or so on in SS2. I usually do a mix "hack/combat" build, being a pure weapons person with limited ways to open crates removes mechanics more than adding something different. Tried so many times to use PSI as main but outside lower difficulty settings or very narrow paths (i wouldn't call them exploits) it's just more work than anything. So why do i have to buff myself with limited resources when i can have similar skills levels permanently outside PSI?
Another reason why i like SS1 more it's because for me it's the refinement of previous games made with that kind of engine. They have similar approaches and at the same time different "styles". For example Ultima Underworld explores the classic multi-level dungeon like in Wizardry (you go deeper and deeper until the final floor) while UU2 has an hub with different worlds you can warp to and with different levels designs each (multiple floors or not) and some metroidvania and graphic adventure elements. SS1 tries to mix both the things but also expands to other ideas like logs, implants, etc. And i'd add also Terra Nova too, with similar UI approach but totally differen gameplay (team combat, outdoor levels, etc).
About the UI i think that while it's true that there are issues i'd say that when you get around shortcuts you really don't have much issues. It's more about the presentation, seeing so much stuff of screen. But if you look at the average RPG or even adventure games of the 90s you see large UIs with over the top use of commands and so on. I think that in many cases also to reduce the world screen and have a faster rendering. In case of SS1 i like the feel of having some kind of on screen display from the perspective of the hacker himself, trying to personalize the things you see from the implants. Of course it's limited but it's a feeling you don't see much more in modern games (for better or worse).
I find interesting being able to shoot without mouselook. I reminds me more of rail shooting and very few 3D games do that (Metroid Prime on the WII for example with motion controls). It's kind of charming using the phaser and blast few mutants on screen without rotating the view :P In particular in Terra Nova it's an interesting match because you are in a power armor and you cannot move around as fast as normal so the cursor, locking mechanics and team mates help you circumvent that.
Another point in favor of SS1 is that kind of texture style. It reminds me of PC games on japanese computers (NEC PC-98): clean designs with simpler gradients, strong dithering, vibrant colors (usualy from limited palette) and higher resolution. Very distinct vibes.
Hey, if you're itching to finish SS1 on the final (timed) difficulty then just go for it. It sounds crazy but you do not need to worry about skipping stuff. You can even take your sweet time listening to all the audio logs (!) and do all the other completionist stuff. A often overlooked feature of SS1 is how incredibly tightly designed it is, almost no time is wasted on anything that isn't a direct result of player action (including travel time - everything is super close once elevators are opened), so just keep a healthy tactical pace and you're likely to enter Security Deck with 2+ hours to go. If you don't believe me just try it, you'll be surprised.
And don't worry if you feel you're going slow initially. You can "waste" half your allotted time on getting through Medical and Science decks and still be more than fine for a completionist run. Keeping a healthy pace becomes much easier past those decks due to you getting stocked up with proper equipment.
That was fantastic. Thank you for this deep dive into the series.
You're very welcome!
Sometimes these older games really surprise me. I still remember when I got Deus Ex in a bundle and thought, 'I'm not going to like this'. Tried it out and I loved it. Should I play System Shock...hmmmmm.
Hmmmmmmmmm
have you played system shock yet
@@williamgill5286 No, not yet. I have a ton of games I want to play still :S
"and you try to open the door, but there's too much blood on the knob!" that reference caught me off guard and fit so well, I had to pause the video for a moment to stop myself from laughing!
Playing system shock 1 feels like controlling a sentient 3D printer with feet. You're just mobile enough to perform extremely deliberate actions but too bulky to do anything complex quickly.
Precisely!
I find it interesting you were apparently so nanite hungry the whole time. Even on my blind playthrough I remember swimming in the stuff. If I had to guess, you probably relied on guns for normal enemies while I used a melee weapon whenever possible, except for certain enemies that were too hard to beat with them.
Probably. Melee combat provided a lot of damage risk and acquiring med kits was just as bad as the ammo. The fact that an immersive sim would penalize you for making a choice like that is silly.
It's quite possible to remap reload to the R-key in SS1 Enhanced (it's Alt+backspace by default).
Actually I find the music fit good for system shock 1. gives it a eerie technical feel to it I honestly hope there's an option to put the original soundtrack into the remake ( haven't played the original but I watched some playthrough on TH-cam
You know your conclusion, especially you're parallels with the original system shock and BioShock, you just nailed it.. this is basically what's been swimming in my hand and I'll tell anybody you know that'll listen.. also didn't help having played SWAT 4 right before BioShock by the way... Swat 4 actually might share more in common with system shock then Bioshock at least the original as far as the unlimited tools at your disposal.. coming into bioshock, first thing I had to do was get a trainer in order to fix the fov and we were not on good terms at that point... By comparison the shooting felt absolutely hollow, and I just couldn't get that feeling that I was playing a real game it felt like that same feeling I got by playing the first Halo.. this is a curated experience to sell out a a console box and it and it feels false. The fact that the sequel managed to one up that hollow feeling by having enemies that reacted like they weren't even there, like everything was made out of paper mache and hollow on the inside despite the increased visual specter.. one thing that continues to amaze me about the original system shock is despite that I'm really not keen on playing in any time soon again especially with the remake on the rise, even with sprites it felt chunky.. and just the things you can do in 1994 the things you could do LOL we have lost the things you can do in a game mentality the more games that are designed for the 12 button controller and limited ram pools and just expectations of streamline design as opposed to what could be a better way if you gave it a shot anyhow.. this is taking me probably two days to get through, when you said your stuff was dense you are not kidding.. and I don't mean that in a bad way I have enjoyed going back over and over again trying to pick up little things.. part of that's just my attention span right now but hey good stuff really appreciate it!
i would choose some other games then swat 4 but it still fits in comparison.
the hollow feel you get from games with more visual stimulation then functional one is simple lack of imagination required for function. our brain is very, very expensive machine to run. imagination gets a lot out of it. if we don't have to use it we will not. so low poly but high function just lights it up and leaves a deep mark as it makes our brain make new neural connections. so new ideas and memories form.
btw, i had a profound inspiration fro getting a second degree as connection of asimov's gaia vs shodan's many drew me from physics to social dynamics. having an inspirative moment in your early 20's to make such a drastic change is a lot. so i ended up in the army jumping from planes. weird how you can just get a crisis that crushes your core from a video game...
Just caught this a couple minutes after it posted, nice surprise! Thanks for making great content
You are so very welcome.
Well, Shodan was a 'him', he is labelled in the manual as such.
Then, when they had more money and CD space to do the audio logs with speech, they got a female as the best voice actor they could get. Up until that point, all audio logs had Shodan as a 'him' as well, which is why they were changed. With hundreds of them, one or two most have fallen through the cracks.
I always thought that was all there is to it. I certainly never thought that there was oversight lacking when the System Shock story was written because there was a mixup in gender identities that actually only entered into the game way after the game was first released on floppies due to them re-recording the lines with a different voice actor than originally anticipated.
In the same vein, the whole 'females are creepy when they aren't nurturing' argument falls flat due to exactly the same reasoning. Shodan wasn't envisioned as a woman AI by the writers of SS1, so any literary analysis that touches specifically on the female interpretation of the AI has no ground to stand on whatsoever as it simply is not what the writers had written or envisioned. Shodan became female with the inclusion of the voice actress and wasn't before. Some lines were even added / changed when they settled on the female VA to fit the switch even better, to the best of my knowledge.
Now in SS2, she was clearly written and envisoned as female, no doubt about that. In SS1, it's hard to tell what should be analysed. The floppy Shodan was male, and all his dialogue was written with that in mind. Then, with the voice actress being a woman and many lines changed prior to the CD release to fit that fact, there were bound to be some inconsistencies with SS1's Shodan characterisation from then on out. And thus the same goes for any attempt at literary analysis concerning Shodan's perceived gender - inconsistencies are bound to appear.
That's an interesting perspective, but I don't really think gender played much into her being in that first game anyway because of all the bigger reasons that SHODAN has flaws as a developed villain. There are clearly issues with the left hand not quite knowing what the right hand was doing in System Shock, which is telling from the lack of a dedicated writer to keep things straight and a team more focused on the technical aspects of the game.
Dude go outside
@@ryan.1990 no u
@@NthReviewThink he was talking to the cringe lord above your original response.
The commentary on the chase for the full simulated kitchen being boiled into a story of trickery and detailed design is what i find very interesting about Bioshock Infinite. The story really rubs this false freedom in your nose.
I'm really excited for the remake of the first game and I hope it leads to a remake of the second so more people can experience these classics in preparation for the third one.
I'm looking forward to the ss2ee but it would be very hard to remake without Levine in there
@@NthReview Speaking of Ken you excited for Judas?
@@Kaden10 uh… we’ll see.
@@NthReview I just hope the ending doesn't tick me off like Burial at sea's did.
Been pretty stoked for this video since you announced it.
Enjoy duder!
Huh, I just saw this 2 minutes after it was released just after looking for System shock content.
The Nth Review provides, what can I say? Hahaha, enjoy!
I just noticed this channel has 5k subs. I was honestly expecting 100,000+. What the fuck? This is *quality content* and it's still flying mostly under the radar!
Thank you! Every like and share and sub and Patreon supporter helps build the attention!
Great research! Loved this.
Thanks!
One of the reasons I love System Shock 2 so much is that it's the first game that gave me that "immersive sim" feeling.
It's the unique feeling of amazement, surprise, wonder, and triumph when you notice you have executed the same tactic you'd use to solve the problem in real life in a given situation or gotten yourself out of a bind with some outside-the-box thinking -- I got that a lot in Deus Ex as well as SS2.
But the thing that impressed me most about SS2 and what made it feel most real is that it didn't care if you can surmount its enemies, challenges, and gameplay systems or not. You're just a bug on a windshield of a cruiser traveling at half the speed of light outside of Tau Ceti IV, so if you built your character wrong or didn't utilize your resources smartly, you could be stuck.
And then there's the triumph of breaking the game's systems and dominating enemies and challenges that once seemed insurmountable -- beautiful! I love this game.
Wasn't the ramp in storage a trap where shodan ambushes you while saying "nice jump".
I don't believe it was....
@@NthReview oh wait, I just realised you didn't jump all the way to the white floor panels, that triggers the ambush.
@@gopalkrishnan9732yes, on storage
@@NthReviewit was
You make deep dives look shallow, this was abyssal. And a blast from the past that I truly enjoyed going back over. Looking forward to wading through some more of your reviews.
Thank you!!!
It still boggles my mind how System Shock, the critically acclaimed series and origin of Bioshock, the critically successful series... can't find reliable funding :/
To be clear i would prefer no System Shock 3 as opposed to a watered down System Shock flavored Bioshock, because we already have that, it's called Bioshock :/
I agree, but I also think System Shock was a product of its time. The original game is ambitious but obtuse. The sequel is less ambitious but accessible. You follow the route of the sequel and you get BioShock. You follow 5he route of the original and... Well, that would be amazing
@@NthReview why not the best of both?
@@MICKEYrenraw I 1,000% agree...
How does this video only have 4,000 views? Fantastic work, loved the video. I hope the TH-cam algorithm is kind to you sir.
Thank you! The algorithm has been pretty kind in the past few days and I'm grateful for that, hope it leads to more and more.
I'd say that Prey (2017) is probably the closest we've gotten to a System Shock 3 so far. Bioshock was obviously mean to be the spiritual successor to the series, but those 3 games watered a lot of the Immersion sim elements down, Bioshock Infinite especially. Infinite watered quite a lot down in general sadly. Prey brought quite a bit more of those elements back, which I recall really surprised me at the time. Great game.
Prey is a really weird case, as it's System Shock... *without* a SHODAN-like entity. The Typhon have similarities to The Many, but... There isn't an omniscient mastermind in control of the situation. Not like SHODAN, or Andrew Ryan.
@@watchm4ker Yeah villain wise I agree. I guess I meant more gameplay wise it felt more like SS1 and 2.
@@EarthboundX I agree. It's System Shock in almost every other respect.
Waiting for Bioshock Infinite and then playing it on release was like watching your fiancee walk down the aisle on your wedding day only for her to punt you in the privates, spit on you, and sprint out the door.
Awesome video, very glad I found your channel. I was getting tired of hearing about the fall of this and the fall of that from the GVMERS channel. Your content offers a refreshing different tone to those kinds of videos. Looking forward to watching more of your content.
Thank you! I'm just trying to present things as they are. I understand the need for creative titling to draw crowds, I've done it myself, but I agree we don't need to so hyperbolic.
I actually found chunks of System Shock 2s story pretty sour tasting, specifically how the ship travelled distances by manipulating reality and how Shodan wanted to use that technology for her own ends. I expect that if you're going to screw with reality, it should be trippy as all hell because you're screwing with the very foundation of our existence, but the civilization that made that technology is just your run of the mill sci-fi dystopian humanity. The premise becomes even lamer when all it serves is a rogue AI that wants to turn the universe into pixels because lal.
I think that's a big reason why I like the first game's presentation better, because it shows greater potential whereas the sequel's is more mundane. Unfortunately, I think all their budget went into the Body of The Many, so they couldn't really show off what SHODAN really wanted to do
@@NthReview And the problem with that is the same problem with Xen from Half-Life: Game engines of that era just couldn't do 'organic' designs any justice. Not enough polygons for smooth curves, and not enough texture detail to mimic the complexities of organic tissue.
@@watchm4ker That's not really my issue though, because The Body of The Many is probably the most visually striking section of the game. The problem is that they were underfunded and had issues with mismanagement, so they chased a lot of tail instead of buffing out other sections of the game, something even they readily admit to.
Holy shit. Amazing review, packed to the brim with amazing information and back story
Thank you!
Am I the only one who doesn't like the new version of SHODAN? The SS2 one is just so iconic, I feel like the new one lost that sinister look and I loved her sharp features and cat-like eyes. Now she's just....some woman with lines on her face.
I think it's a great evolution of the Ryan Lesser SS2 version, which does unfortunately look dated. I didn't care for the mechanical version they debuted SS3 with though.
System shock and marathon are always that piece of avant-garde 90's technology that I always come back to, it's incredible how similar they are and how much different too even having somehow similar genres and plot points
I played SystemShock Classic in 2021 first time. I can clearly say they really did something beyond their times. Graphics and controls are weird at first but oh boy, they really did timeless masterpiece.
Well, i don't know about timeless, there are definitely parts that have aged, but it is a masterpiece
46:39 Boston Dynamic's doggo robot. You're welcome.
God that's so real. I wonder if Nightdive will transform them into sowmth similar for the remake
My father still has the box version of System Shock 2, along with Half Life, HL Blue Shift, the Blade Runner game (which took place in 2020 neat) along with a few others. I have played most of them, but not System Shock 2 yet. This might be what pushes me.
I used to have many of those boxes but the parents had to get rid of them ahead of a move. I miss my Deus Ex box most of all
@@NthReview I'm sorry to hear, they really are a neat display item to have, even without anything inside.
@@zombieranger3410 And worth a decent amount to collectors now too!
This is the most in-depth video on the System Shock series I have seen.
Great review, and i feel exactly the same as you about Bioshiock just being some lesser versions of systemshock 2 and getting lot more praises while these praises should have been going into systemshock
I love SHODAN too, and i always feel embarassed when i see people praising Glados so much when they dont even now about shodan >
I'm so glad games like Prey, and SOMA exist, as they do a lot of what System Shock 2 tried to do, without the narrative holding back the gameplay elements too much, especially in the case of Prey, whereby the gameplay is built around the narrative, but there is also a lot of freedom, in how you complete those objectives.
"Wahmen Villains so rare. Hurr durr" Jesus, bro
Weird criticism, bro.
1:22:59 - “…but there’s too much blood on the knob!” Did I just catch a very subtle Simpsons reference?
Just wanna say big thumbs up on the Rogue like vs lite thing. So many people dont seem to understand the difference and you described it perfectly.
1:29:50 There is a log somewhere in the game where a character discusses why Citadel Station is so whacky. It was designed in a way to intentionally induce stress and anxiety in it's inhabitants. Someone involved in building it thought that it would be the perfect opportunity to study how anxiety might play a role in inhabiting a space station and wanted the designers to amplify the anxiety. Citadel was seemingly the first-of-its-kind and they wanted to collect data for other projects, presumably to make those less anxious? Clearly Citadel had a lot of management issues.
Clearly…
Some fun facts about the SS1 and 2 soundtracks.
1. The SS1 music system was surprisingly complex for its time especially because it used MIDI, it would change based on enemy count and aggression, what part of the level you were in, how angry shodan was at you and some other factors l
2. The commonly spread version of the SS1 OST (the Chicajo mixes) are like really inaccurate to the in game counterparts and has some weird mixing decisions which I personally don't like
3. The way the SS2 OST was released in high quality, was that a friend of Eric Brosius (guy who mixed all the tracks, and composed 1 track) burned a CD for him of the complete Soundtrack in high quality CD audio, which I personally find interesting
Yeah, per Mandalore Gaming, that dynamic SS1 soundtrack turned out to be so subtle that it's a huge reason why they didn't bother with the second game, although the second game doesn't really come across as dynamic enough to have such a subtle mix of levers to drive music like that.
@@NthReview SS2s music system is basically split into different 20 or less seconds of a song, that seamlessly loop and play into eachother, and they change based on where you are in the level
I certainly remember how the music gets all scary/glitchy when going near that radiation trench
Such a well put and thought out video, awesome job!!
Thank you! I’ve got 18 more reviews where that came from!
I don't know if it was in the OG System Shock (I never played it) but in the remake there are a couple of logs that mention tracking a nearby wormhole. Which could theoretically explain how the garden grove got to Tau Ceti so fast.
Wow I'm glad I am not alone on getting stuck in the elevator leading into that that upside-down Rickenbacker section.
There are literally dozens of us!
I am old enough that I should have played both SS’s back in the day but both passed me by. I played both during Lockdown years. I personally think the UI in SS nightdive edition was fantastic. Loved being able to click a button and go from clicking on the world to clicking on my hud. I know I am in the minority here but I want to see more games use SS style inventory.
There is a audiolog talking why you don't remember much more than training and few parts of the recent travel after you wake up in Sys Shock 2- someone (Shodan) orchestrated that your memory won't be preserved so you won't question why you have been upgraded.
The log talks about a soldier being submitted for cyberaugmentation out of the blue without info on preserving his recent memory
This was actually really good.
SS2 is a game you never forget.
Shodan in particular.
Thanks!
This is my first experience with your channel. I really enjoyed your review, I'm looking forward to watching your deus ex review next. Ss2 was a huge part of my childhood, I don't recall having any trouble with nanites, but your critique of the economy in retrospect is 100% on point. The greatest enemy was never shodan... It was crashing on load screens and corrupted saves.
Seeing SS1's 3D environments with 2D enemy sprites is incredible. Can see where games like Daggerfall got their inspiration. Though the idea of trying to deal with Shodan's mutants and cyborgs in a space like one of Daggerfall's dungeons is horrifying.
According to mark leblanc, 451 IS a reference to farenheit 451 and it became the code to their office AFTER it was implemented in system shock.
I recall that System Shock level loading back in the day was quite fast. The machine I had then was 66mhz Compaq Presario with 8mb or ram and 8-bit Soundblaster.
PS. System Shock 2's look is not 70's but it's 90's. Just look at Star Trek TNG. That's where the most of the influence comes from.
59:13 Going by the SS1 remake audio logs, Her core is shielded without recourse, hence why you must attack her in cyberspace
Forgot wether or not you included this in the video. But for System Shock 1 and having to double click everything. There ARE hotkeys for reloading, using grenades, drugs and cyber-hardware implants. Altho I find using the hotkeys remove alot of the anxiety and tactical approach to combat.
Great video tho, always nice to sre people talk about System Shock, one of my favourite games ever made.
System Shock 2 absolutely blew my mind when I first played it. I had no idea as to what it was, simply found the game in a box & installed it.
My friend nust told me he was too scared to play it. Then I quickly discovered that I was also but that edm kicked in and I found my courage.
@@Th3BigBoy totally worth playing, even today.