This is great to know, thank you! Not sure if it was done yet but possibly a video breaking down each relic and what Champs would benefit from said relic.... thanks for your time!
@@pez6905 well duh... but even when you do that, it's nice to get a professionals opinion one what they think will work. Maybe they point out a combination that you overlooked.
My Occular masses require flat crystals of a specific degree, mounted on the peaks of my scent and audio gateways, to assist me in deciphering the texts written by the mysterious invisible little people.
I've been sticking with just using the same rarity for forging (so all rares/epics/etc). I can't quite get the top materials easily so I want to make sure I maximize the potential out of them. Just got the orb of transfusion from all rare materials today and threw that on my mighty ukko as I wanted to see if he would steal buffs before removing the rest with his A2.
Got it on Venus,she can open by stripping buffs 1/2/3 (RNG lol) times because of accessories then place defence down and weaken and have another chance of stealing any SS/buffs left-tempted just to put it on Cupidus instead though 😉
just wanted to point out that not only the amount of trials that you do matters, but also which trials. You could be doing 10 trials but none of the ones that give mythical rewards. Also another important thing that people have missed, is that each week they swap around the rewards of all trials, potentially making some more or less worth than others.
It’s good to see you back and Happy New Year Saph! Thanks for the advice, I have been waiting to do a giant batch of crafting to see if I can then cherry pick the right relics for the right champions.
Id did some math and i think saph was right on the beginning, when he said do not mix and he is wrong now... why, because of the wheighting factor of the lower materials beeing higher, so if you mix they matter more, one example, if you have the same amount of legendary and rare you can either do 1 all epic and one all legendary or 2times 2epic pieces and two legendaries, second one is worse in every aspect, it has lower chances of getting epic, legendary and mytical relics, i did the math on some other combos like 2rare 2epics, and mixing lost every time
20000 crafts of EELL rare 6706 epic 9312 legendary 3932 mythical 50 10000 crafts of EEEE + 10000 crafts of LLLL rare 6000 epic 9595 legendary 4350 mythical 55 The same amount of resources, but a huge difference in the result. There is no point in using other combinations than 4 materials of the same type
Large data set = AWESOME, TY... Since you seem able to quickly compute that out, have you ran the numbers using actual drop rates? I get top chest on NM & UNM and average 6-7 trails on UNM (No mythic) and 10-12 Trails on NM (again, no mythics) and find drop rate is roughly L = 1, E = 3, R = 8. Very rough estimate, but I do wonder if doing L1, E1, R2 would ultimately get you more since it more evenly distributes that materials... Is that something you could model quickly?
@@aaronpiper5150 For 10000 crafts, on average, you will get a relic with a certain rarity for every 0.01%. If the probability of getting a mythic relic is 0.05%, then on average you will get 5 mythic relics per 10000 crafts. This is how I calculate the odds. Here are numbers you asked for: 40000 LERR rare 26296 (65.74%) epic 10692 (26.73%) legendary 743 (7.43%) mythical 40 (0.1%) 10000 LLLL + 10000 EEEE + 20000 RRRR rare 22798 (56.995%) epic 12695 (31.7375%) legendary 4450 (11.125%) mythical 57 (0.1425%) Using 4 materials of the same type seems to be the most efficient way to use materials. This can also be explained by looking at the formula and weights from the video. Since the lower the rarity, the greater the weight, the impact of a higher rarity material will be less if you combine it with less rare materials. It may sound complicated, but if you try to plug the numbers into the furmula, you will understand why this happens.
@@aaronpiper5150 For 10000 crafts, on average, you will get a relic with a certain rarity for every 0.01%. If the probability of getting a mythic relic is 0.05%, then on average you will get 5 mythic relics per 10000 crafts. This is how I calculate the odds. Here are numbers you asked for: 40000 LERR rare 26296 (65.74%) epic 10692 (26.73%) legendary 2972 (7.43%) mythical 40 (0.1%) 10000 LLLL + 10000 EEEE + 20000 RRRR rare 22798 (56.995%) epic 12695 (31.7375%) legendary 4450 (11.125%) mythical 57 (0.1425%) Crafting 4 LERR is less efficient than crafting 1 LLLL + 1 EEEE + 2 RRRR Using 4 materials of the same type seems to be the most efficient way to use materials. This can also be explained by looking at the formula and weights from the video. Since the lower the rarity, the greater the weight, the impact of a higher rarity material will be less if you combine it with less rare materials. It may sound complicated, but if you try to plug the numbers into the furmula, you will understand why this happens.
Examples showing how weight affects material impact: If you use 4 mythic materials, the impact of one mythic material is 25% (1/4) If you use 3 mythic materials and 1 legendary, the impact of the legendary material is 33.33% (1.5/4.5), and the impact of one mythic material is 22.22% (1/4.5) If you use 3 mythic materials and 1 epic, the impact of the epic material is 38.78% (1.9/4.9), and the impact of one mythic material is 20.4% (1/4.9) If you use 3 mythic materials and 1 rare, the impact of the rare material is 50% (3/6), and the impact of one mythic material is 16.67% (1/6) If you use 4 legendary materials, the impact of one legendary material is 25% (1.5/6) If you use 3 legendary materials and 1 epic, the impact of the epic material is 29.69% (1.9/6.4), and the impact of one legendary material is 23.44% (1.5/6.4)
I think you should use the shard like this: Compare where you get a higher chance, using 4 rares and 4 epic alone ore mix them, then you get 2x the chance of 2epic and two rare, more looking if it gets you averall better chances while mixing or not
I think you kinda glossed over a way more important question: like, if I have 100 legendary and 100 mythical, am I better off mixing them evenly (or unevenly?), or only using one and then the other? In the singular crafting instance I'm (effing obviously) better off just using 100 mythical at once. But is that still true considering that the next crafting instance in this scenario is 100 legendary? I think you just ignored that any material you don't use to craft a relic, you then still have to craft another. Which seems slightly relevant.
If i forje 4x (100) legendary its 40% to get legendary. But if u split those 100 on to 2x legendary and 2x epics u get 2 chances of 19% legendary , i guess it pay of since u have almost the same odds to get legenday and in the end u have twice the relics to use or sacrifice to lvl up others
I run 1 key for damage then 1 key for trials one lvl lower then my best key. I burn all rares to make relics and save other eye balls till more info is out
Thank you Saph, and those who work with you to give us these videos. Question: does Relic crafting give any CvC points? I forgot to check if it was added to the Objectives in the latest CvC, and the next is still about 2 weeks from now.
I dropped down in difficulty and went full trial it's actually insane how much better it is to drop down 1 difficulty from your best and focus on trials. I managed 13 trials which added a 3.1 multiplier for clash so on the "clan breakdown" it looks like you did poorly but if you look at your score in "clash" its huge!
Our clan only up to the 3rd chimera so we're only getting rare and a few epic ive built literally the same relic about 4 times I used the one they give us on sulfuryion oh and I finally got a different size thing instead of round and square but don't have a relic to put it on oh and I got that defense one on gnut raised his defense by 1 up to 10% each time idk which to use on who lol
It looks like mixing lego and epic material is a simple and strainght value loss. It's just better to wait and fuse the same materials together and never mix them them up
Great vid, but it appears the math is all based on a single pull, which if you are saving for a month (or several months). With stats there is always a curve for probability based on sample size. That’s what you should show.
Well less resources = more reasons to observe this chart. Generally the greater volume the less you care about the best odds because it'll normalise to getting you what you want eventually. if you can only get a handful of the mythical materials you absolutely want the best payout which is 100 of them in one summon to guarantee the best chance of the best item.
You did the gear testing in Chimera… any info on what relics actually work? I know that will be harder to test without access to them all. I was super excited to get the Irethi Coronet only find out it doesn’t seem to work on Gnut in Chimera.
Your wrong. Your forgetting the rate of how much you get of each material. Your showered with epic and rare material and almost no leggo and mythic. Your gonna be having tons of epic relics. Best is to not mix at all
Home run video - found is SO helpful. Thanks Saph!
This is great to know, thank you! Not sure if it was done yet but possibly a video breaking down each relic and what Champs would benefit from said relic.... thanks for your time!
Second this saph and youre the man for the job. Maybe with nubs
Yep im on it!
Just read champs kits yourself. Not hard. Use one that compliments their kits lol
@@pez6905 well duh... but even when you do that, it's nice to get a professionals opinion one what they think will work. Maybe they point out a combination that you overlooked.
This is just awesome Saph. Another great work by you to help us out. Really appreciate it.
Thanks Saph, great to see the maths behind the game as always. Keep up the great work!
Saph..... they are eyeballs. Occular = eyeball
My Occular masses require flat crystals of a specific degree, mounted on the peaks of my scent and audio gateways, to assist me in deciphering the texts written by the mysterious invisible little people.
So basically every 4 of the same takes you a rarity back.
I've been sticking with just using the same rarity for forging (so all rares/epics/etc). I can't quite get the top materials easily so I want to make sure I maximize the potential out of them. Just got the orb of transfusion from all rare materials today and threw that on my mighty ukko as I wanted to see if he would steal buffs before removing the rest with his A2.
Got it on Venus,she can open by stripping buffs 1/2/3 (RNG lol) times because of accessories then place defence down and weaken and have another chance of stealing any SS/buffs left-tempted just to put it on Cupidus instead though 😉
just wanted to point out that not only the amount of trials that you do matters, but also which trials. You could be doing 10 trials but none of the ones that give mythical rewards. Also another important thing that people have missed, is that each week they swap around the rewards of all trials, potentially making some more or less worth than others.
Really appreciate your great work Saph!
It’s good to see you back and Happy New Year Saph!
Thanks for the advice, I have been waiting to do a giant batch of crafting to see if I can then cherry pick the right relics for the right champions.
Id did some math and i think saph was right on the beginning, when he said do not mix and he is wrong now... why, because of the wheighting factor of the lower materials beeing higher, so if you mix they matter more, one example, if you have the same amount of legendary and rare you can either do 1 all epic and one all legendary or 2times 2epic pieces and two legendaries, second one is worse in every aspect, it has lower chances of getting epic, legendary and mytical relics, i did the math on some other combos like 2rare 2epics, and mixing lost every time
I haven't been using. been waiting on a math genius like you to do maths on odds. LOL thanks
20000 crafts of EELL
rare 6706
epic 9312
legendary 3932
mythical 50
10000 crafts of EEEE + 10000 crafts of LLLL
rare 6000
epic 9595
legendary 4350
mythical 55
The same amount of resources, but a huge difference in the result. There is no point in using other combinations than 4 materials of the same type
Large data set = AWESOME, TY... Since you seem able to quickly compute that out, have you ran the numbers using actual drop rates? I get top chest on NM & UNM and average 6-7 trails on UNM (No mythic) and 10-12 Trails on NM (again, no mythics) and find drop rate is roughly L = 1, E = 3, R = 8. Very rough estimate, but I do wonder if doing L1, E1, R2 would ultimately get you more since it more evenly distributes that materials... Is that something you could model quickly?
@@aaronpiper5150 For 10000 crafts, on average, you will get a relic with a certain rarity for every 0.01%. If the probability of getting a mythic relic is 0.05%, then on average you will get 5 mythic relics per 10000 crafts. This is how I calculate the odds.
Here are numbers you asked for:
40000 LERR
rare 26296 (65.74%)
epic 10692 (26.73%)
legendary 743 (7.43%)
mythical 40 (0.1%)
10000 LLLL + 10000 EEEE + 20000 RRRR
rare 22798 (56.995%)
epic 12695 (31.7375%)
legendary 4450 (11.125%)
mythical 57 (0.1425%)
Using 4 materials of the same type seems to be the most efficient way to use materials.
This can also be explained by looking at the formula and weights from the video. Since the lower the rarity, the greater the weight, the impact of a higher rarity material will be less if you combine it with less rare materials. It may sound complicated, but if you try to plug the numbers into the furmula, you will understand why this happens.
@@aaronpiper5150 For 10000 crafts, on average, you will get a relic with a certain rarity for every 0.01%. If the probability of getting a mythic relic is 0.05%, then on average you will get 5 mythic relics per 10000 crafts. This is how I calculate the odds.
Here are numbers you asked for:
40000 LERR
rare 26296 (65.74%)
epic 10692 (26.73%)
legendary 2972 (7.43%)
mythical 40 (0.1%)
10000 LLLL + 10000 EEEE + 20000 RRRR
rare 22798 (56.995%)
epic 12695 (31.7375%)
legendary 4450 (11.125%)
mythical 57 (0.1425%)
Crafting 4 LERR is less efficient than crafting 1 LLLL + 1 EEEE + 2 RRRR
Using 4 materials of the same type seems to be the most efficient way to use materials.
This can also be explained by looking at the formula and weights from the video. Since the lower the rarity, the greater the weight, the impact of a higher rarity material will be less if you combine it with less rare materials. It may sound complicated, but if you try to plug the numbers into the furmula, you will understand why this happens.
Examples showing how weight affects material impact:
If you use 4 mythic materials, the impact of one mythic material is 25% (1/4)
If you use 3 mythic materials and 1 legendary, the impact of the legendary material is 33.33% (1.5/4.5), and the impact of one mythic material is 22.22% (1/4.5)
If you use 3 mythic materials and 1 epic, the impact of the epic material is 38.78% (1.9/4.9), and the impact of one mythic material is 20.4% (1/4.9)
If you use 3 mythic materials and 1 rare, the impact of the rare material is 50% (3/6), and the impact of one mythic material is 16.67% (1/6)
If you use 4 legendary materials, the impact of one legendary material is 25% (1.5/6)
If you use 3 legendary materials and 1 epic, the impact of the epic material is 29.69% (1.9/6.4), and the impact of one legendary material is 23.44% (1.5/6.4)
I think you should use the shard like this: Compare where you get a higher chance, using 4 rares and 4 epic alone ore mix them, then you get 2x the chance of 2epic and two rare, more looking if it gets you averall better chances while mixing or not
Thanks for all that work!
Beautiful work, thank you ♥
didn't check your math but looks legit. Thanks guys! Now I just have to get better than NORMAL difficulty ....
I think you kinda glossed over a way more important question: like, if I have 100 legendary and 100 mythical, am I better off mixing them evenly (or unevenly?), or only using one and then the other?
In the singular crafting instance I'm (effing obviously) better off just using 100 mythical at once. But is that still true considering that the next crafting instance in this scenario is 100 legendary? I think you just ignored that any material you don't use to craft a relic, you then still have to craft another. Which seems slightly relevant.
No keep all Mythical and All legendary - mixing always produces worst results for these two rarities
justified analysis and practical conclusions -- thank you it helps a lot
If i forje 4x (100) legendary its 40% to get legendary. But if u split those 100 on to 2x legendary and 2x epics u get 2 chances of 19% legendary , i guess it pay of since u have almost the same odds to get legenday and in the end u have twice the relics to use or sacrifice to lvl up others
I run 1 key for damage then 1 key for trials one lvl lower then my best key. I burn all rares to make relics and save other eye balls till more info is out
Glad to see you back brother!
Thank you Saph, and those who work with you to give us these videos.
Question: does Relic crafting give any CvC points? I forgot to check if it was added to the Objectives in the latest CvC, and the next is still about 2 weeks from now.
It did not give points during the last CvC but might very well give points in the next one
Great video. Thank you!
Nice work saph
good work bro
I dropped down in difficulty and went full trial it's actually insane how much better it is to drop down 1 difficulty from your best and focus on trials. I managed 13 trials which added a 3.1 multiplier for clash so on the "clan breakdown" it looks like you did poorly but if you look at your score in "clash" its huge!
13 trials for a 3.1 multiplier I guess it's on normal difficulty !?
Brutal starts at 5.0 multiplier for 0 trials !
Our clan only up to the 3rd chimera so we're only getting rare and a few epic ive built literally the same relic about 4 times I used the one they give us on sulfuryion oh and I finally got a different size thing instead of round and square but don't have a relic to put it on oh and I got that defense one on gnut raised his defense by 1 up to 10% each time idk which to use on who lol
Oh I haven't Been able to upgrade my relic past level 2 because I only have level 1 things to upgrade
It looks like mixing lego and epic material is a simple and strainght value loss.
It's just better to wait and fuse the same materials together and never mix them them up
Great vid, but it appears the math is all based on a single pull, which if you are saving for a month (or several months). With stats there is always a curve for probability based on sample size. That’s what you should show.
Well less resources = more reasons to observe this chart. Generally the greater volume the less you care about the best odds because it'll normalise to getting you what you want eventually.
if you can only get a handful of the mythical materials you absolutely want the best payout which is 100 of them in one summon to guarantee the best chance of the best item.
@ thanks. Again. Great work!
Great thanks!
I go full blast damage and complete as many trials I can incidentaly which is usually 5
@HH Gaming Network, no biggie but the new spreadsheet appears to be missing the "Rare Legendary Mythical Mythical" row.
Yep i knew i missed one thank you!
I see "equation," I click. Maths as I'm prepping Math for Saturday's class? Yes, thanks!
You did the gear testing in Chimera… any info on what relics actually work? I know that will be harder to test without access to them all.
I was super excited to get the Irethi Coronet only find out it doesn’t seem to work on Gnut in Chimera.
Thats the next set of testing and videos!
Scroll of unseen works with Toshiro too lol.
Save. Any epic rares are food. With the chance that chance has to offer.
It's not bizzare, each greater ore increases all lower opportunities
FYI: You are missing "Rare-Legendary-Mythical-Mythical". I only looked because you mentioned it... Great work, tho!
I knew there was 1 - I'll add it
Was the damage dealer list updated on the website?
This I am working on to add Chimera as an option too!
The new event dungeon will have something to do with relics as well . Mark my words
I mean - are you inside their minds - good prediction!
I don't get is what relic to use for what champion.
I got a Hallowrd Hilt from 100 rare eyeballs ❤
When are they going to fix ram trial #3 bug? If i do damage but kill myself it doesnt count, this is holding me back from doing 15 trials on UNM
Id imagine next update.
bless you saph
I just learned you can craft relics i was wondering how people were getting them LMAO
Well I have pulled 0 mythicals so guess not something for me to worry about.
this is presuming you can even go above medium
Everytime I see a graph I fall asleep. 😅
Plarium Buff Septimus
Math bois!
Its not bizzare, it's just how plarium coding works.
Personally chimera is a huge L relics should of been another dungeon chimera rewards should be books etc
They cant just give us more and more books and shards that doesnt make sense for the game economy.
Heavily disagree. Relics are new and thus new items should come from it. They give us solid book distribution from cb and dt/events
Just geting two chest for the 1-2 shards for the Mythical Champ
You still did it wrong with your excel, you can do it right if you just read what the game says.
Your wrong. Your forgetting the rate of how much you get of each material. Your showered with epic and rare material and almost no leggo and mythic. Your gonna be having tons of epic relics. Best is to not mix at all
Less talking, more spreadsheets.
blah blah, you could play for 2 years and have no mythical, just random create them until god forge comes out
5 months 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
The bigger thing is... to get this stuf, as it looks will I never be able to craft any relic since I lack lego and mythical parts.
Yeah honestly the breakdown is stupid with 2 keys