I’m 9 for 9 and as a 70 year old student pilot, I find that my immediate short term memory isn’t what it used to be, so I find the read backs for ATC to be challenging and humbling. But it’s a process and I’m enjoying the journey.
I'm almost 60 and got my certificate at 16. Back then (1981), if I am recalling correctly, taxi instructions were much easier... Usually it was "N48PM taxi runway 17"... no taxiway specifications. Maybe they were doing taxiway specifications at bigger airports back then, I just don't recall ever getting them. I've been flying for 44 years or so (really, all my life - flew with my dad)... and I struggle with the string of "Centurion 48PM taxi runway 17 via alpha 1, bravo, echo, cross runway 27, hotel 3." YIKES! (ok, to be fair, I just made that one up but I've had taxi instructions that sounded that long!). It can be really fun if they decide to turn the airport around... had that happen in TN once. Ground gave me taxi instructions once to the north facing runway (which I wrote down). About half-way through the taxi, ANOTHER controller came up on ground and asked me where I was going. I told him I was taxing to 17 (or whatever runway it was) and the controller came back and said, "No, that's wrong. We are taking off to the south on 35!". Now, I know I'd written the instructions down correctly, so I was confused. Controller came back on and apparently it was tower confusion during the runway and controller switch and I'd been given the wrong taxi instructions (whew!). As a new student, regardless of age, If you are able to get even half the instructions the first round - you are doing GREAT!! Keep it up!
The ones that really throw me are ground taxi instructions. Especially at an unfamiliar airport when you're still rolling out on the runway after landing, you're still busy, and they hit you with "November 123 exit at alpha 2, taxi via alpha golf delta, cross 12, echo foxtrot, hold short of 34" and you're like...uhhh, whaaat?
Before I call for Taxi at an unfamiliar airport, I always like to get the airport diagram out, listen to ATIS, watch moving ground traffic and listen to ground. Then I'll look at the airport diagram, figure out where I am, and figure out the most likely takeoff runway and taxi patch that I'll be given. Then I'll call ground for taxi. I feel this helps a lot with situational awareness and being prepared for taxi. Being familiar with the taxiway setups, even a little bit, helps so much.
If you spend one or two minutes familiarizing yourself with the airport diagram and note which taxiways you might be likely to use, it might smooth things for you a bit. Have the diagram ready when you're leaving the runway after landing. 🙂
9 for 9: Another great topic. I’ve found there to be a big difference in ATC controller attitude as sometimes making life great/easy or frustrating when it comes to complex or long instructions. I’ve said to myself a few time, “wow, that guy is having a bad day and needs to take a vacation” versus thinking , “copy all - love the way that guy is having fun at his job”. Regardless, paper and pen in-hand is crucial. Safe flying all!
9/9 - the hardest is dealing with expectation bias. You are used to hearing a set of instructions and expect them. Then ATC comes with something totally different, your brain has to forget what you expected then deal with the new set of instructions.
9/9 During an early student XC solo under 'Flight Following' got "xxxx, be aware MEA is 4500' ". Huh? My response: "Student pilot, confirm climb to 4500'? " received a full explanation and continuous helpful coaching from ATC for the flight.
As an older student, I sometimes forgot who I was and occasionally missed an ATC call. My school had a fleet of about 10 Warriors and I often stumbled when identifying myself, especially when I was not flying my 'favorite' plane. Bailed out by my CFI plenty of times. CFIs ROCK!
I’m an older Student Pilot 68…yes, short term memory not as good as it used to be. I write down what I can but also try to anticipate what the instructions would be based on ATIS or what other pilot’s instructions are being given. I also listen to ATC a lot and follow traffic on ForeFlight. Great series.
Exactly... If I'm flying into a new controlled airport I will try to listen to approach, tower and ground a few days before the trip to try to get a feel for how they flow traffic, anything that might be oddball for that area and so on. Makes for much less confusing flights.
Had a good one not too long ago. Just a simple VFR clearance; " [Callsign], Eastbound departure approved, runway in use 13, wind 160 at 2 knots, QNH 1012, Squak 7034, taxi via K2 hold short B2, be advised fog patches in the vicinity of the threshold"... It also helps to read back what you got and have written down and just ask at the end of your read back "say again advisory" or "say again QNH" or something to that effect. Much more efficient than asking them to readback that entire clearance when you got 90% of it and there are 10 other aircraft waiting for a gap.
9 for 9. Student pilot just flew into my first towered airport yesterday to practice landings and found it rather challenging w/ATC. I've been practicing landings without getting permission to land or call out midfield to someone other than other pilots which was not that often due to minimal traffic. Happy to say it was much easier after the option of my CFI suggested meeting the guys. ATC was all for it and we headed up into the tower. After watching how things worked with ATC to breaking the ice with the whole crew there it definitely eased my mind with coms. I highly recommend this if other students are having stage fright with communication. Of course, if ATC allows it and isn't too terribly busy.
8/8. One that got me was a taxi clearance I received as a student pilot. Ground told me Cherokee 94J taxi runway 26 via Foxtrot Mike Juliet cross 17R at foxtrot. I was baffled. That’s why it’s important to listen to the ATIS find out which runway is in use, then look at your taxi diagram and see what are they most likely going to give you.
9/9. One of the things that can hang you up is when the tower starts asking you to report at local landmarks that the locals know but may, or may not, be referenced anywhere on an FAA chart. Once they say something like that, and if it’s in the middle of their instructions, my brain easily gets stuck on my own thought, “what did they say?” At that point I might even miss the typically expected stuff. I also remember recently when I filed an IFR Flight plan at an unfamiliar airport on ForeFlight and got the standard “Filed and expected” automated message. Thirty minutes later when I called Clearance and Delivery from the plane I totally expected to hear what I filed spoken either in detailed form or just “As filed”. Instead I got a long routing with none of my planned waypoints ( except my destination) and had to sheepishly admit to ATC that I didn’t get any of it and needed it all repeated. I didn’t even catch the easy stuff because I was so caught off guard. Lesson learned-always plan to write a significantly different plan and be glad when all the prewritten clearance on your knee board is the same as ATC’s actual clearance! 😊
9/9 I have the utmost respect for pilots who train in the US with English being their second language. Radios can be tricky enough, especially when first starting out. Add in having to learn a new language on top of it. Geez. Pilots like Martin who had to do this, hats off!
Thank you Jason for your great videos! I've been away on vacation so this is the first one of the series I've been able to watch, but as always they are great!
9/9 with 3 thoughts on comms: First, read back instructions in the EXACT order given. Simple example-ATC instructs “N12345, fly heading 180, cleared for takeoff RW15.” Some pilots read back “cleared for takeoff RW 15, heading 180” For simple instructions like this you may not think it matters, but when the instructions get longer it will help you. Second, learn exactly what you are required to read back. Some instructions may include items like wind or a wake turbulence warning that do not need to be read back. You need to identify those parts while listening, understand them, but then read back what is required, in the exact order given. finally, some audio panels like my PMA450C have an automatic recording capability. Instead of asking “say again” if I’ve missed something the first time I push the playback and listen to it again before responding. ATC may not like the short delay, but I believe they like a “say again” even less.
9 from 9. I've found learning the structure of the standard instructions you are likely to receive in each circumstance helps greatly. Also understand what has to read back and what doesn't.
9/9 Great topic! Correct phraseology is great but never be afraid to just talk to the controller in plain English like a normal person if you need to address something outside of the usual box of pilot stuff we are used to saying. They are just normal people who are there to help and they do their job exceptionally well! Nothing but good things to say about ATC! They work really hard!!!
we've been wondering about the AIM-recommended readback "negative contact" when you don't see the reported traffic in sight. No one uses it, saying instead, "looking for traffic". The official terminology seems to just beg the question and leads to adding, 'looking for traffic" anyway. What do you think?
9 for 9! Landing in John Wayne airport in SoCal can be confusing the first couple of times, especially flying IFR. The approach controllers have no issue giving an instruction like “turn right heading ‘XXX’, intercept Victor ‘XXX’ (usually the airway is like 20 feet ahead of you once you get on the heading.)” But it’s good to get some practice in these busier spots.
I can remember getting last minute published hold instructions just after I'd been cleared for an approach. I'd gotten approach vectors and was maybe a mile from the hold fix. You could tell something wasn't going to plan for the controller as she sounded stressed. She actually apologized for the last minute hold. I was lucky since it was a published hold and a few days before I'd just finished practicing holds on my new GPS, so fortunately the setup process was fresh in my mind. I think one thing that can help is trying to think ahead of the flight for possible issues....
9 for 9. Radio work was always my favorite. First time I landed at KGNV Gainesville (Runway 7) and did a full stop taxi back, ground instructed me to hold short of the 11 approach, or something like that. I had never seen an approach hold marker before and had no idea what he was referring to :)
It’s one thing to ‘parrot’ back what the controller told you. More important to ensure you understood it and can comply. Or you’ve just committed to do something you’re not going to do.
As a student (mostly trained at an unpowered airport) I froze up on the radio the first time I heard "cleared for the option". I had never heard that phrase and my CFI had to fill in the radio response for me. It was like hearing a song for the first time and not understanding the lyrics. BTW, I was actually pretty far along in my flight training, I had done a bunch of towered ops- just hadn't heart that phrase before. I definitely found towered airport ops to be the hardest part of radio work and flight training in general.
I think this is where listening to liveATC can be soooo helpful. If you are not used to a towered airport, or your looking at flying into Class Bravo or Charlie airspace, you would benefit so much from taking some time to not only listen to approach, tower and ground frequencies within the airspace, but also try to truly understand the instructions. Get a chart, get an approach plate and an airport diagram... listen to the instructions and then figure out how they practically apply. Listen to taxi instructions, practice writing them down, then plot them out on the airport diagram. Listen to the approach of a specific flight and write down the approach instructions. Look at the relevant sectional or TAC and figure out what the instructions mean and what the result would be. Watch the radar returns on foreflight or some other flight tracking software and see the actual application of those instructions as the flight progresses. Even as a private pilot, IFR approach plates can be very instructional when learning about a new airport or it's associated airspace. I also think that a flight simulator like MS Flight Simulator, can be so helpful when your flying into new airspace. Graphics have gotten so good... while the ATC simulation isn't great, it's still really nice to be able to fly different approaches into new places on MSFS first...
9 for 9: During my first solo just as I turned base I had the crazy instruction from KGTU TWR to "maintain traffic pattern altitude, fly through final and I'll call your upwind leg." This was done because three planes, which were much faster than me were already lined up and sequenced to land. The controller tried to fit me in but realized I was just too slow. So, he had me do a lap around the pattern and fit me after that.
949, this is always been a work in progress for me. When I’m concentrating on navigating and flying the airplane and then having to repeat back instructions, I sometimes get task saturated, depending on what I’m doing , especially during IFR training. For those out there, I would like some helpful tips or apps, etc., that you use to help a fellow pilot. I also figured it comes with time and experience and I just need to be patient and continue to learn about priority and organization in the airplane. Thank you.
9 for 9, for student pilots it's always shocking the first comms you deal with. But when you start hearing other languages, or accents sometimes it might be paralyzing. It's always good to remember that if something is not clear, repeat and be completely sure of what is intended.
I listened to ATIS twice, once after starting the plane and then again after run up due to the time and knowing that ATIS may be updated to Information ___. Sure enough it did, they changed the runway from 33 to 15. When I contacted ground they told me taxi to 33 via Foxtrot Echo. I came back and said "Just checking on the runway because the latest ATIS changed the runway from 33 to 15. He came back and only said "Taxi via Alpha hold short 15". One thing I did at my home airport was to visit the tower when they were not busy and get a face to face meet and greet so I was more than just a Tail Number
9 for 9! To learn coms early on, I trained with AirSim and practiced it a lot. Really helped. Always got kudos from CFIs. Yeah good comms are so important.
Niner for niner - Always use proper phraseology, get into the habit of writing down complex clearances/instructions, think before reading back, and always ask for clarification.
9 for 9. My strangest ATC instruction was "make a right 360 degree turn". Luckily I was paying attention and I knew they were working an airliner on final and they would have to extend my downwind. Instead they delayed me with a right 360. I did a standard rate turn, the controller complimented me and cleared me to landed.
With my first non pilot passenger for the first time ever I was told to depart on a right downwind and advise abeam the tower. Threw me off but did it just fine
9/9 - an airport I fly into for XC almost always gives me my taxi back instructions right when my main gear touches down, and it’s longer instructions including crossing an active runway.
9 for 9. I always have some extra paper on my keyboard incase I need to write something down. But will always follow the aviate navigate communicate rules.
9 for 9, ATC is my also my 3rd language. When ATC startle me with an unexpected call that I don't get, I repeat what I understand only. If I missed something important, controllers will repeat and give me another chance !
For foreign it is difficult because ICAO and EASA ATCs are really standard compared to FAA which use a lot of slang and non-standard phraseology. But when you start understanding and asking, you will find the better controllers in the world, like everything, it is just practice. I remember one of my first flights in the US, taking of an A320, I called “ready for departure “ and the tower atc responded me “yeah, well you have a seminole on base and other on final” 🤷🏽♂️ so I guessed it was “hold short rwy xxx..”
9:9. I find it difficult to catch instructions bc they do not wait for acknowledgement after stating my tail number. They just keep rambling on and by the time it is recognized that they are giving instructions the first several words have slipped away.
9/9..... most important phrase "say again for.....". And I would emphasize - ATC is there to work WITH us, we are their customer, not the other way around
I prefer to think of the ATC\Pilot relationship as a partnership. I find with the "customer" paradigm, some get the attitude that the "Customer is always right." - which is dead wrong in this case. We pilots screw up, as does ATC. ATC and pilots are there to safely and legally (not always the same as safety IMHO) work together to navigate from point A to point B. We are partnering to avoid flying into other planes, towers, surface, UAP (I so want to see an Orb, LOL!!). IMHO, the "Customer" approach doesn't properly represent the mutual respect that both parties should hold for each other IMHO. I get the "customer" approach to government - in general. I just think in this case it's not conducive to maximal safety or respect for the responsibilities both sides have.
Nine for nine! I've been lucky (or unlucky) enough to have some pretty simple radio calls no matter how busy the airport is. I'm sure that will come to an end before too long.
I also find that if they are talking fast, if you reply back in a slower cadence they very often will slow down their speech. Also, if your a student or new pilot who is struggling to keep up, tell them you are a student or new pilot - be honest about what your struggling with. Frankly, even if your Charles Lindbergh - and your struggling to keep up, tell them. A few more minutes on the "air" is better than a request to take a number later on... :) When I was on my first IFR solo (gads, what a stressful trip) I had a re-route that included 2 new fixes. The controller just shot them out to me. I called back and said, "I'm sorry, new IFR pilot and I just didn't get that. Can you repeat and spell the fixed phonetically please?". I found the controller very accommodating and understanding. Your not always going to get that, of course, but I've found - on balance - they are more in the helpful camp than the "your a bother" camp. The problem of difficult controllers reminds me of the Monty Python line from Holy Grail, 'Is there someone else we can talk too?"....
I'll again refer to talking rate. The ones that really throw me are when they talk too fast. Apparently their recommendation is 100WPM, but I've measured 175 @ KORL. Occasionally at a remote-to-me airport, ATC will throw out a local reference that I don't know, but it's easy to ask. I also find myself preemptively asking "... Unfamiliar with airport, can you advise where the run-up area for runway xxx is."
The last time I flew to Seattle I landed at Renton and the ground controller told me to taxi to the FBO "past the 737s". Since this was where Boeing do their final assembly of 737s this didn't exactly narrow it down. I pleaded "unfamiliar!" and got progressive taxi instructions. The longest taxi instruction I've ever gotten was at Pitt Meadows CYPK. Pitt Ground: "taxi alpha cross 26 left alpha golf delta cross 26 right delta foxtrot hold short 18". Me: WTF?!
nine by nine... and I'm confused by taxi instructions at this time. This, and switching falling back to english if I'm confused even though I'm supposed to radio in german...
I’m 9 for 9 and as a 70 year old student pilot, I find that my immediate short term memory isn’t what it used to be, so I find the read backs for ATC to be challenging and humbling. But it’s a process and I’m enjoying the journey.
I'm almost 60 and got my certificate at 16. Back then (1981), if I am recalling correctly, taxi instructions were much easier... Usually it was "N48PM taxi runway 17"... no taxiway specifications. Maybe they were doing taxiway specifications at bigger airports back then, I just don't recall ever getting them.
I've been flying for 44 years or so (really, all my life - flew with my dad)... and I struggle with the string of "Centurion 48PM taxi runway 17 via alpha 1, bravo, echo, cross runway 27, hotel 3." YIKES! (ok, to be fair, I just made that one up but I've had taxi instructions that sounded that long!).
It can be really fun if they decide to turn the airport around... had that happen in TN once.
Ground gave me taxi instructions once to the north facing runway (which I wrote down). About half-way through the taxi, ANOTHER controller came up on ground and asked me where I was going. I told him I was taxing to 17 (or whatever runway it was) and the controller came back and said, "No, that's wrong. We are taking off to the south on 35!". Now, I know I'd written the instructions down correctly, so I was confused. Controller came back on and apparently it was tower confusion during the runway and controller switch and I'd been given the wrong taxi instructions (whew!).
As a new student, regardless of age, If you are able to get even half the instructions the first round - you are doing GREAT!! Keep it up!
The ones that really throw me are ground taxi instructions. Especially at an unfamiliar airport when you're still rolling out on the runway after landing, you're still busy, and they hit you with "November 123 exit at alpha 2, taxi via alpha golf delta, cross 12, echo foxtrot, hold short of 34" and you're like...uhhh, whaaat?
Before I call for Taxi at an unfamiliar airport, I always like to get the airport diagram out, listen to ATIS, watch moving ground traffic and listen to ground. Then I'll look at the airport diagram, figure out where I am, and figure out the most likely takeoff runway and taxi patch that I'll be given. Then I'll call ground for taxi. I feel this helps a lot with situational awareness and being prepared for taxi. Being familiar with the taxiway setups, even a little bit, helps so much.
Yeah, the worst is when its your home airport and you're embarrassed to ask for a progressive.
@@N48PM I do the exact same thing before taxi! It helps that my G3X pops up an airport map and shows your position on it as well.
If you spend one or two minutes familiarizing yourself with the airport diagram and note which taxiways you might be likely to use, it might smooth things for you a bit. Have the diagram ready when you're leaving the runway after landing. 🙂
9/9 - as an older student pilot, I've found ATC communication at towered airports to be one of the most difficult things for me
9 for 9: Another great topic. I’ve found there to be a big difference in ATC controller attitude as sometimes making life great/easy or frustrating when it comes to complex or long instructions. I’ve said to myself a few time, “wow, that guy is having a bad day and needs to take a vacation” versus thinking , “copy all - love the way that guy is having fun at his job”. Regardless, paper and pen in-hand is crucial. Safe flying all!
9/9 - the hardest is dealing with expectation bias. You are used to hearing a set of instructions and expect them. Then ATC comes with something totally different, your brain has to forget what you expected then deal with the new set of instructions.
9/9 During an early student XC solo under 'Flight Following' got "xxxx, be aware MEA is 4500' ". Huh? My response: "Student pilot, confirm climb to 4500'? " received a full explanation and continuous helpful coaching from ATC for the flight.
As an older student, I sometimes forgot who I was and occasionally missed an ATC call. My school had a fleet of about 10 Warriors and I often stumbled when identifying myself, especially when I was not flying my 'favorite' plane. Bailed out by my CFI plenty of times. CFIs ROCK!
I’m an older Student Pilot 68…yes, short term memory not as good as it used to be. I write down what I can but also try to anticipate what the instructions would be based on ATIS or what other pilot’s instructions are being given. I also listen to ATC a lot and follow traffic on ForeFlight. Great series.
9:9
9 for 9. Good reminder to ask for clarification if needed.
9for 9. What really helped me was listen to Tampa ATC on ATC live.
Exactly... If I'm flying into a new controlled airport I will try to listen to approach, tower and ground a few days before the trip to try to get a feel for how they flow traffic, anything that might be oddball for that area and so on. Makes for much less confusing flights.
9 for 9. This series is always full of great info.
Had a good one not too long ago. Just a simple VFR clearance; " [Callsign], Eastbound departure approved, runway in use 13, wind 160 at 2 knots, QNH 1012, Squak 7034, taxi via K2 hold short B2, be advised fog patches in the vicinity of the threshold"... It also helps to read back what you got and have written down and just ask at the end of your read back "say again advisory" or "say again QNH" or something to that effect. Much more efficient than asking them to readback that entire clearance when you got 90% of it and there are 10 other aircraft waiting for a gap.
When I started out, "cleared for the option" was the one that always had me thinking twice.
9 for 9. Student pilot just flew into my first towered airport yesterday to practice landings and found it rather challenging w/ATC. I've been practicing landings without getting permission to land or call out midfield to someone other than other pilots which was not that often due to minimal traffic. Happy to say it was much easier after the option of my CFI suggested meeting the guys. ATC was all for it and we headed up into the tower. After watching how things worked with ATC to breaking the ice with the whole crew there it definitely eased my mind with coms. I highly recommend this if other students are having stage fright with communication. Of course, if ATC allows it and isn't too terribly busy.
8/8. One that got me was a taxi clearance I received as a student pilot. Ground told me Cherokee 94J taxi runway 26 via Foxtrot Mike Juliet cross 17R at foxtrot. I was baffled. That’s why it’s important to listen to the ATIS find out which runway is in use, then look at your taxi diagram and see what are they most likely going to give you.
9/9. One of the things that can hang you up is when the tower starts asking you to report at local landmarks that the locals know but may, or may not, be referenced anywhere on an FAA chart. Once they say something like that, and if it’s in the middle of their instructions, my brain easily gets stuck on my own thought, “what did they say?” At that point I might even miss the typically expected stuff. I also remember recently when I filed an IFR Flight plan at an unfamiliar airport on ForeFlight and got the standard “Filed and expected” automated message. Thirty minutes later when I called Clearance and Delivery from the plane I totally expected to hear what I filed spoken either in detailed form or just “As filed”. Instead I got a long routing with none of my planned waypoints ( except my destination) and had to sheepishly admit to ATC that I didn’t get any of it and needed it all repeated. I didn’t even catch the easy stuff because I was so caught off guard. Lesson learned-always plan to write a significantly different plan and be glad when all the prewritten clearance on your knee board is the same as ATC’s actual clearance! 😊
9/9 I have the utmost respect for pilots who train in the US with English being their second language. Radios can be tricky enough, especially when first starting out. Add in having to learn a new language on top of it. Geez. Pilots like Martin who had to do this, hats off!
That’s why it’s very important to use standard phraseology.
Thank you Jason for your great videos! I've been away on vacation so this is the first one of the series I've been able to watch, but as always they are great!
9/9 with 3 thoughts on comms:
First, read back instructions in the EXACT order given. Simple example-ATC instructs “N12345, fly heading 180, cleared for takeoff RW15.” Some pilots read back “cleared for takeoff RW 15, heading 180” For simple instructions like this you may not think it matters, but when the instructions get longer it will help you.
Second, learn exactly what you are required to read back. Some instructions may include items like wind or a wake turbulence warning that do not need to be read back. You need to identify those parts while listening, understand them, but then read back what is required, in the exact order given.
finally, some audio panels like my PMA450C have an automatic recording capability. Instead of asking “say again” if I’ve missed something the first time I push the playback and listen to it again before responding. ATC may not like the short delay, but I believe they like a “say again” even less.
9 from 9. I've found learning the structure of the standard instructions you are likely to receive in each circumstance helps greatly. Also understand what has to read back and what doesn't.
9/9 Great topic! Correct phraseology is great but never be afraid to just talk to the controller in plain English like a normal person if you need to address something outside of the usual box of pilot stuff we are used to saying. They are just normal people who are there to help and they do their job exceptionally well! Nothing but good things to say about ATC! They work really hard!!!
we've been wondering about the AIM-recommended readback "negative contact" when you don't see the reported traffic in sight. No one uses it, saying instead, "looking for traffic". The official terminology seems to just beg the question and leads to adding, 'looking for traffic" anyway. What do you think?
9 for 9!
Landing in John Wayne airport in SoCal can be confusing the first couple of times, especially flying IFR. The approach controllers have no issue giving an instruction like “turn right heading ‘XXX’, intercept Victor ‘XXX’ (usually the airway is like 20 feet ahead of you once you get on the heading.)” But it’s good to get some practice in these busier spots.
I can remember getting last minute published hold instructions just after I'd been cleared for an approach. I'd gotten approach vectors and was maybe a mile from the hold fix. You could tell something wasn't going to plan for the controller as she sounded stressed. She actually apologized for the last minute hold. I was lucky since it was a published hold and a few days before I'd just finished practicing holds on my new GPS, so fortunately the setup process was fresh in my mind. I think one thing that can help is trying to think ahead of the flight for possible issues....
9 for 9, great. thank you for all the tips Jason
9 for 9. Thank you for all the information!
Thanks for the info! 9 for 9!
9/9. The ILS clearance is always the complicated one for me. A lot of info in that brief transmission!
9 for 9. Radio work was always my favorite. First time I landed at KGNV Gainesville (Runway 7) and did a full stop taxi back, ground instructed me to hold short of the 11 approach, or something like that. I had never seen an approach hold marker before and had no idea what he was referring to :)
9 for 9. Love the lessons. Yes, I have asked for clarification many times
9 for 9 Thank you Jason & Martin
It’s one thing to ‘parrot’ back what the controller told you. More important to ensure you understood it and can comply. Or you’ve just committed to do something you’re not going to do.
9/9! Also, never be afraid to get progressive taxi when at unfamiliar airports.
As a student (mostly trained at an unpowered airport) I froze up on the radio the first time I heard "cleared for the option". I had never heard that phrase and my CFI had to fill in the radio response for me. It was like hearing a song for the first time and not understanding the lyrics. BTW, I was actually pretty far along in my flight training, I had done a bunch of towered ops- just hadn't heart that phrase before. I definitely found towered airport ops to be the hardest part of radio work and flight training in general.
I think this is where listening to liveATC can be soooo helpful. If you are not used to a towered airport, or your looking at flying into Class Bravo or Charlie airspace, you would benefit so much from taking some time to not only listen to approach, tower and ground frequencies within the airspace, but also try to truly understand the instructions. Get a chart, get an approach plate and an airport diagram... listen to the instructions and then figure out how they practically apply.
Listen to taxi instructions, practice writing them down, then plot them out on the airport diagram. Listen to the approach of a specific flight and write down the approach instructions. Look at the relevant sectional or TAC and figure out what the instructions mean and what the result would be. Watch the radar returns on foreflight or some other flight tracking software and see the actual application of those instructions as the flight progresses. Even as a private pilot, IFR approach plates can be very instructional when learning about a new airport or it's associated airspace.
I also think that a flight simulator like MS Flight Simulator, can be so helpful when your flying into new airspace. Graphics have gotten so good... while the ATC simulation isn't great, it's still really nice to be able to fly different approaches into new places on MSFS first...
@@N48PM THx, great advice my post was ambiguous as I am not currently a student, although we are "always learning".
9 for 9! Thanks for the great content!
9 for 9: During my first solo just as I turned base I had the crazy instruction from KGTU TWR to "maintain traffic pattern altitude, fly through final and I'll call your upwind leg." This was done because three planes, which were much faster than me were already lined up and sequenced to land. The controller tried to fit me in but realized I was just too slow. So, he had me do a lap around the pattern and fit me after that.
949, this is always been a work in progress for me. When I’m concentrating on navigating and flying the airplane and then having to repeat back instructions, I sometimes get task saturated, depending on what I’m doing , especially during IFR training. For those out there, I would like some helpful tips or apps, etc., that you use to help a fellow pilot. I also figured it comes with time and experience and I just need to be patient and continue to learn about priority and organization in the airplane. Thank you.
9 for 9. Good topic. As an instrument student comprehension and read back of instructions often challenges my bandwidth.
9 for 9, for student pilots it's always shocking the first comms you deal with. But when you start hearing other languages, or accents sometimes it might be paralyzing. It's always good to remember that if something is not clear, repeat and be completely sure of what is intended.
I listened to ATIS twice, once after starting the plane and then again after run up due to the time and knowing that ATIS may be updated to Information ___. Sure enough it did, they changed the runway from 33 to 15. When I contacted ground they told me taxi to 33 via Foxtrot Echo. I came back and said "Just checking on the runway because the latest ATIS changed the runway from 33 to 15. He came back and only said "Taxi via Alpha hold short 15". One thing I did at my home airport was to visit the tower when they were not busy and get a face to face meet and greet so I was more than just a Tail Number
9 for 9! To learn coms early on, I trained with AirSim and practiced it a lot. Really helped. Always got kudos from CFIs. Yeah good comms are so important.
9/9. I have had to ask say again many times. Great info thanks!!
9 for 9, read back, syntax; listening for “who you are” is paramount in high traffic areas and not getting distracted.
Niner for niner - Always use proper phraseology, get into the habit of writing down complex clearances/instructions, think before reading back, and always ask for clarification.
9 - 4 - 9 Thanx Jason!
9 for 9. My strangest ATC instruction was "make a right 360 degree turn". Luckily I was paying attention and I knew they were working an airliner on final and they would have to extend my downwind. Instead they delayed me with a right 360. I did a standard rate turn, the controller complimented me and cleared me to landed.
With my first non pilot passenger for the first time ever I was told to depart on a right downwind and advise abeam the tower. Threw me off but did it just fine
9 for 9. it's tough to repeat sometimes when at a different airport.
Good vid. Informative, enjoyed it. 9/9 Was told to do S turns on final for spacing once.
949. Those wonderful 4 or 5 step taxi instructions, with a 3 step memory, and a lost pen. Ahhh, good times. Asking for Progressive Taxi helps.
9/9 - an airport I fly into for XC almost always gives me my taxi back instructions right when my main gear touches down, and it’s longer instructions including crossing an active runway.
9 for 9. I always have some extra paper on my keyboard incase I need to write something down. But will always follow the aviate navigate communicate rules.
Martin seems to be very well prepared and confident. The other people you’ve showcased, not that great.
9 for 9, ATC is my also my 3rd language. When ATC startle me with an unexpected call that I don't get, I repeat what I understand only. If I missed something important, controllers will repeat and give me another chance !
9 for 9! Don't often talk to ATC unless I'm using flight following :)
9 for 9 - thanks for these helpful instructions
For foreign it is difficult because ICAO and EASA ATCs are really standard compared to FAA which use a lot of slang and non-standard phraseology.
But when you start understanding and asking, you will find the better controllers in the world, like everything, it is just practice.
I remember one of my first flights in the US, taking of an A320, I called “ready for departure “ and the tower atc responded me “yeah, well you have a seminole on base and other on final” 🤷🏽♂️ so I guessed it was “hold short rwy xxx..”
9:9. I find it difficult to catch instructions bc they do not wait for acknowledgement after stating my tail number. They just keep rambling on and by the time it is recognized that they are giving instructions the first several words have slipped away.
Wait until you fly into CXO airport in Houston! One of the controllers there is kind of rude to student pilots at times.
9/9..... most important phrase "say again for.....". And I would emphasize - ATC is there to work WITH us, we are their customer, not the other way around
I prefer to think of the ATC\Pilot relationship as a partnership. I find with the "customer" paradigm, some get the attitude that the "Customer is always right." - which is dead wrong in this case. We pilots screw up, as does ATC.
ATC and pilots are there to safely and legally (not always the same as safety IMHO) work together to navigate from point A to point B. We are partnering to avoid flying into other planes, towers, surface, UAP (I so want to see an Orb, LOL!!).
IMHO, the "Customer" approach doesn't properly represent the mutual respect that both parties should hold for each other IMHO.
I get the "customer" approach to government - in general. I just think in this case it's not conducive to maximal safety or respect for the responsibilities both sides have.
9/9. Taxi instructions always get me....
Nine for nine! I've been lucky (or unlucky) enough to have some pretty simple radio calls no matter how busy the airport is. I'm sure that will come to an end before too long.
9/9 "Unable" "Revise and Repeat"
I also find that if they are talking fast, if you reply back in a slower cadence they very often will slow down their speech. Also, if your a student or new pilot who is struggling to keep up, tell them you are a student or new pilot - be honest about what your struggling with. Frankly, even if your Charles Lindbergh - and your struggling to keep up, tell them. A few more minutes on the "air" is better than a request to take a number later on... :)
When I was on my first IFR solo (gads, what a stressful trip) I had a re-route that included 2 new fixes. The controller just shot them out to me. I called back and said, "I'm sorry, new IFR pilot and I just didn't get that. Can you repeat and spell the fixed phonetically please?". I found the controller very accommodating and understanding. Your not always going to get that, of course, but I've found - on balance - they are more in the helpful camp than the "your a bother" camp.
The problem of difficult controllers reminds me of the Monty Python line from Holy Grail, 'Is there someone else we can talk too?"....
9 for 9. Thank you.
9 for 9 from Hungary 🇭🇺 can’t think of any too crazy calls, either from the sim or from real life
9 for 9, great info
9/9 from Clermont 😊
Neuf for neuf. Serious information bro
9 for 9. Good lesson. As a new pilot, sometimes it seems ATC speaks so fast. It’s hard to get everything they say.
9/9 - from a pilot controlled airport, this was for me!
I'll again refer to talking rate. The ones that really throw me are when they talk too fast. Apparently their recommendation is 100WPM, but I've measured 175 @ KORL. Occasionally at a remote-to-me airport, ATC will throw out a local reference that I don't know, but it's easy to ask. I also find myself preemptively asking "... Unfamiliar with airport, can you advise where the run-up area for runway xxx is."
Nueve para Nueve ......Muy divertido mis amigos
The last time I flew to Seattle I landed at Renton and the ground controller told me to taxi to the FBO "past the 737s". Since this was where Boeing do their final assembly of 737s this didn't exactly narrow it down. I pleaded "unfamiliar!" and got progressive taxi instructions.
The longest taxi instruction I've ever gotten was at Pitt Meadows CYPK. Pitt Ground: "taxi alpha cross 26 left alpha golf delta cross 26 right delta foxtrot hold short 18". Me: WTF?!
The hardest thing is listening to the ATIS when the controller recorded it talking at a million miles an hour
I found with that just be patient and listen to it repeatedly until you have all details.
9/9 …barely ⌚️
I cannot even imagine trying to translate the ATC instructions too. Aviator Beast!
9 for 9! 🏝
Use the scratch pad in ForeFlight
9 for 9 Jas!
9 for 9. Thank you
9 for 9 ...glad I'm not the only pilot that can't remember the taxi instruction sequence
9 for 9!
9/9 The first time I was instructed to taxi back in an active runway was weird
9 for 9 taxi instructions gets me nervous at a bravo airspace airport
9 for 9 !!! 🙂
9 for 9 and learning everyday.
9 for 9!
9 for 9!!!
9/9!
9 for 9 Have a safe day!
9 for 9 👌🏼
9 fo 9. No crazy phrases just the occasional rude controller that unadjusted by the phrase "student pilot:
nine by nine... and I'm confused by taxi instructions at this time. This, and switching falling back to english if I'm confused even though I'm supposed to radio in german...
9 for 9 from the Philippines.
I’m learning
9 for 9 - enter and report a 3 mile left base
9 for nine!
9 for 9 from 🇬🇧
9 for 9 I also have trouble with taxi instructions but I found the magic word: "progressive .. please".
9 for 9, I practice at home, with videos. Also the best HEADPHONES RULE, if you can afford them.
9-4-9... ATC intimidates... for the newbie.
9X9😊