My old best friend, who I figured out in retrospect was ENFP, was a peacemaker between her friends when she went to college. If anybody was getting into an argument, she would talk to all the different sides and try to see their points of view, then try to explain it to the others, in case there was a misunderstanding.
I am an IEE ENFP and what you said really describes me so well wow! I relate also to the Te part of wanting to come across as competent and I can actually be hardworking and I don't always like asking help, but sometimes I really have to ask for it.
I'm only few minutes into the video and everything you said about being on a self-discovery journey and wanting to flourish and find all our potential is seriously one of the BEST descriptions of IEE i've seen, i also really like how you said that we aren't necessarily interested in unlocking the potential of other people but we definitely are focused on improving ourselves ! So excited for the SLI video since they definitely pique my curiosity the most and i would absolutely love to hear your thoughts on them
Agreed. I'm not really interested in unlocking the potential in other people, just me tbh. That was actually smth that threw me off when I read most descriptions about IEE
@@anasilva.272is caring greatly for the potential of others more of an Fe thing then? Because I definitely care to see others become their best selves and want to influence that.
@@anasilva.272It appears like that is too much of a subjective matter to generalize for all IEEs. It depends on the person really (see what I did there).
w/the ENFJ vs ENFP thing - I've noticed that a lot of lead Fe people really don't like being told that they're "judging," because they often care about being as non-judgmental as possible. There's also that stereotype about "chaos = ExxP," which can *feel* appropriate to lead Fe people because their constant emotional engagement & processing of emotional energy can *feel* quite chaotic. So I can understand where such a person is coming from in typing as Ne-lead, or even Se-lead.
I think Adam Driver is an ENFP. I remember seeing him putting on some kind of a suit and running around - it was a bomb suit, in Kuwait. Everyone's just kind of standing there watching him and laughing a little bit. He is an example of an ENFP who went into the military. He gives this impression of being sort of weak or clumsy, wanting to try on this suit to see what it feels like and how heavy it is, and seeing if he can run while he's wearing this. My old friend used to do something that she called "fact-piling." If she was worried or upset about something, then in her mind, she would do the fact-piling. She would just jumble up a whole bunch of different, separated, discrete facts that couldn't really be connected together into a solid picture, and her conclusions would keep changing. 'Well, if this fact is true, then something, but if that other fact is true, then something else.' Something that I believe is probably a forum full of ENFPs, run by an ENFP, is the MJ DeMarco Fastlane business forum. There was a guy who gave me a copy of one of his books years ago, and that was how I found out about it. This guy seems to be an ENFP telling people how to start their own business and escape from trying to save up money the slow way, by investing the money and compounding the interest over time. If the author himself wasn't an ENFP, he could at least be an ESTJ, and there seem to be lots of ENFPs there in the forum discussing things, looking for possibilities for how to start their own business. They all seem to feel as though they don't really fit in to a normal 'job.'
This is definitely my father , and a way better description than how people would speak about them and their having Ne Dom. but crazy thing he's actually in a house like you described not fully because his enfj brother was fixing it until he caught dementia, or atleast until it was visible so now he's taking care of him all together good one jack thanks i can actually use this
Nice work! I especially like the way you described Ti here - very often Ti vulnerable/Ti PoLR gets described as being like "um me so dumb, i iz not understand..." when I personally experience it more as feeling like I *do* understand because I've got the facts! So I'm ready to apply what I've learned! What do you mean it's not coherent? Oh well, too late now! Something I've noticed in IEE's is that we'll find "hacks" to bypass structure when we want to get something done. E.g. I *strongly* suspect TH-camr Annie Dang is IEE, and in her video on songwriting, she discusses how she avoids having to learn music theory by just using online chord progression generators to spit out something that sounds good. That really stuck with me, because I'd already been doing the exact same thing for quite some time and for the exact same reason. Sometimes I even look at vulnerable Ti as a feature, a strength, in the sense that an IEE won't be tempted into doing something they don't feel right about, just because it's consistent with some codified set of principles. E.g. you might not remember, but several months ago I mentioned there being a major strike in the university system where I worked; I was the only member of my department, and the only member from my local Democratic Socialists of America chapter, to publicly support an agreement to end the strike. It ultimately led to my falling-out with that DSA chapter, which didn't surprise me, but I had to prioritize the effect of an elongated strike on my family, on my colleagues, over a political platform. There were consequences, yes, but no regrets.
It certainly leads to a certain non-partisan quality with IEEs. It's like with George Orwell, the socialist who spent much of his time bashing the excesses of socialism.
Finding hacks to bypass structures resonates with me as well !! (i'm also IEE), I do this in soo many different scenarios, for examples when playing video games i often don't really follow the tutorial or instructions and i prefer to find my own way of doing things, sometimes it gets messy but usually i end up creating my own efficient techniques and some little hacks. I also pretty much never follow tutorials for literally anything, if i have a hobby that oblige me to follow some structure or rigid step by step tutorial and if i don't get to be flexible and carefree then i immediately lose interest in the hobby The stereotype about being dumb is so stupid and people who describe Ti polr that way have a very poor understanding of the functions and how they work
@@kamixae263 Ha ha, exactly this. There's that comfort in just figuring it out as you go. With the "Ti PoLR me iz dumm" thing, I see it as there's these 16 personality types, and each type has multiple ways of being stupid in their own way. Part of it is, I was raised Methodist and really internalized that whole "all have fallen short of the grace of God" thing - not to preach my religion to you, but just to lay out some of my gut feeling of suspicion towards a person who acts like they have unique access to genius because they belong to some particular made-up label, while all those other large swaths of people under some other made-up label are uniquely incapable. I really value the ability to see one's own flaws, one's own shortcomings, and I've experienced some people who push the "Ti PoLR me iz dumm" thing in a way that showed they weren't willing to consider their own limitations - while also being unwilling to consider somebody else's contributions. That's not to say that Ti PoLR won't produce its own set of frustrations for the people around us. I can think of many times in which I was profoundly frustrating for my LII mother. (One general pattern has been that I'll take her advice on a situation, then something else will come along and she'll be like "Why didn't you just do what I suggested on that other thing?!" - and I'm like, well...that was another thing! I didn't realize that was some general protocol, I just took that suggestion as a fix-it for that one situation and then this was a different situation...there were some different facts, Mom!). But all around, all sorts of people have a way of figuring out how to make it through the day in all sorts of different settings - and people of different types simply have different strategies for navigating through those situations. If an IEE or SEE is incapable or unfair, it's not because they're Ti PoLR - it's because they're incapable or unfair, and they're expressing a particularly Ti PoLR flavor of being incapable or unfair. It's easy for me to imagine an ILE or LSI or LIE etc also being incapable or unfair, but in a different way or for different reasons - and it's just as easy for me to imagine people from all of these types being highly capable and perfectly fair to those around them.
@@iankinzel Yess exactly each type has multiple ways of being "stupid" in their own way, even tho i don't really like to use the word stupid but yeah they're just weak and vulnerable in different areas. And people who act like they are geniuses just because they belong to a made up label are the worst, unfortunately because of the stereotype i mistyped myself as an Entp ILE for such a long time, but then i realized that there is no way that i'm an Fi polr since i'm extremely good at people and managing my relationships, but then at the same time i know that i am not dumb and i'm actually very curious and love mental stimulation and i'm overall very confident in my intelligence so how am i a Ti polr ?? Thankfully i ended up realizing that it's more about limitations and structures and hierarchies than about intelligence yet unfortunately others immediately assume that Ti polr equals low intellect. Having an LII mother seems tough since she is a Ti base so there's probably gonna be a lot of situations like the ones you mentioned where you will do some Ti polr things that she won't understand and approve of, but they totally make sense to you in your head Personally one of the most Ti polr things i've done is when i hated the educational system SO MUCH because of how it would steal our freedom and youth and we have to study for hours for things we aren't passionate about and just do labor work instead of enjoying my hobbies and being carefree and doing things that i actually love and i'm passionate about. So, i decided to stop studying and do the opposite of what i was told because i was so frustrated and i felt so trapped as if i was in a cage, i ended up almost failing my second year of highschool because of this lol, but the only class that i like and enjoyed i kept getting excellent grades there. It was very immature and irresponsible but to me i had my valid reasons, then the moment i finished highschool i immediatelyy took a gap year despite getting into a pretty good uni, and i decided to enjoy my time and travel, live my life to the fullest and just go on a self discovery journey (that's when i learned socionics) ! So from this, some people will see my behavior as illogical and will call me an idiot, which explains why people see us as dumb but it really isn't the case of "being stupid", it's not that we can't think, we just really value staying true to ourselves, making moral choices and being free spirited people And yees this manifests differently for each type, honestly i've met quite a lot of types by now and i definitely think that Ti polr is one of the best polrs to have, it really makes you individualistic and a very genuine person, of course it has its ups and downs for example sometimes i do get overwhelmed by overly complex details, but compared to other polrs it's really not that bad and Ti polr is kinda fun actually haha. I know an Si polr and they have it sooooo much worse than us (health issues etc) So hoooraayyy to Ti polr :D !!
It's coherent bc humanity is a spectrum and there is a dissasociaiton in self states the issue is actually in Ti egos who blindly suck gulenko or ashtra and hence why subtypes are added with no actual Ti structure backing. Not saying all enfp are high iq but if there is a connection between various... practical applications I don't incoherent was a correct adjective People shift self states and use all the functions mbti and socionics was proven not 1to1 so resorting to additional incoherence....
@@WorldSocionicsA discussion about Porcupinejasons video regarding world socionics societys typing of Taylor Swift as EII would be interesting. He claims EIE. Considering Swifts popularity it might bring some new people to the world of socionics as well…:)
I haven’t looked into IEE very much, but I’m surprised how much I relate to certain aspects of the type, despite being pretty clearly Se-Ni valuing. My Ti is certainly not PoLR, but I understand the perception of rigid structures being limiting to potential. I guess ‘potential’ to me has more to do with eventually actualising and deciding on a sure course of action, after having reviewed what might be worthwhile.
This is an excellent point, and I've noticed this become a point of confusion for people trying to figure out whether they're Se/Ni or Si/Ne. That "potential" thing that gets attached to delta NF's can feel highly relatable for Ni-valuing folks, who see potential as needing to actualize that highly worthwhile end goal.
Well, I think we have one more type to make a complete set. I didn't realize this video was all the way back in August. I've had a lot going on. I should have started nagging you for the last video months ago.
I don't know if I'm iee but id say if i am i would agree that there are concrete rules Ti just socionics is very flawed since why there are many counter arguments or trying to pick at its structure. (Perhaps)
I think MBTI is a very NFP system, so this video kind of explains why the major flaws in the assessment exist. But my question for IEEs is: If you dislike finding the generalized pattern underneath all, as that limits further exploration, then how is the advice you’re giving to others “practical…?” I mean, if their advice is not following any pattern, then I highly doubt that the advice CAN be practically applied….
Te-base types do it all the time when they ignore Ti. They do what is pragmatic, what works depending on the situation. It's about adaptability. Preferring a coherent and "static" understanding of things is the inverse of that.
@@eloy.. But the IEE’s Ti-polr is a little different from SEEs Ti-polr though, as mentioned in this video. Because while SEEs also face that problem of their facts being somewhat disjointed (in favor of being pragmatic), they will quickly try to fix it if you point this disconnectedness out to them, due to seeking Ni. If you tell the same thing to an IEE, however, they will typically give you more Si details, nuances, and examples, as this enables more areas of exploration, but still won’t like having to connect all of those details together to see the essential thing. OR they may shrug the whole thing off altogether as they will try anything to be free from any restrictions. So my question was: how can an IEE be practical, as explained in this video, if there’s no underlying pattern that they are seeing or following? Because you almost need to be able to see that bigger picture problem IN ORDER to be impactful in reality.
@@beatofmyown If you are always searching for something you will never find it , because you're in a state of searching not finding so to speak , wisdom comes from our mistakes ( Everyone has a similar journey of integrating, individuation and self actualization . Society is built for some and others not so much ) They made a bunch mistakes so they can give practical advice due to being so practically Impractical . People forget these valuable things about types , 1# If you are a introvert you are naturally more ambivert , because society pushes us to be more extroverted (ATLEAST IN THE STATES) 2# If you are a feeler , you are a bit of a thinker , because our education system forced even the slowest of us to become so 3#If you have Ti in your stack you would have been forced to pick up and value Te for similar reasons above in addition the workforce (lose your job , don't get hired, don't get paid =bad consequences) 4# If you are in the states or somewhere similar , you would have mostly known of two realities the sj and the sp , in addition you would have mistaken the feeling types for female personalities and the thinking for male . Which could have caused a whole bunch of problems if you were the opposite , IN some cultures sp personalities might be mistakes for male and sj for female youth atleast others sp for females sj for males in regards to maturity atleast nt male nf female if you are from a generally educated socioeconomical background (especially if you too are college educated , even more so from an ivy) If you were an intuitive weirdo or sp bad kid (in school) , You would have had to integrate sj qualities to be perceived as normal and healthy , unless you could make money from artisan qualities ect and put other traits away in a bad (developing shadow behavior and structural disassociation) So the IEE would have had to navigate all of that which could have gained them alot of skills like an jack of all trades and with their intuition seeing the potential in things and people they can give pretty good practical advise because ne is still tied into the tangible world and they do have te
@@beatofmyownSEEs and IEEs don't have a problem with their facts being disjointed, they have a problem with their **thoughts** being disjointed. Also, the types don't go out of their way to "fix" problems with the 4th function. This function is weak, unvalued and inhibited. The switch is "off" as it were. And moreover the types don't use the suggestive (5th function) the way you describe either, as if to output information. They are only **receptive** to information, hence the label "suggestive". Edit: one way to address your question, with a question: Why would I need a preconceived pattern to hammer a nail on a wall?
They are very closely linked words, it's just that one has positive connotations while the other does not. If someone is aggressive it means they are assertive in excess.
I am an ILI according to Socionics which translates as INTJ in MBTI. I am writing this comment to register my difference of opinion regarding how socionics interprets "Se". As an ILI, one of my weak aspects is supposed to be "Se" (suggestive function to be precise). However, my issues with "Se" is different from how you conceptualise it in your website and mention in the youtube video in ILI. My problem is not indecision or lack of forcefulness but a disdain for hugely sensory environments (such as a party), and also a tendency to favour planning and foresight (Ni-Te) over real time adaptability or on the spot maneouvoring (Se). My attention also often drifts away from the immediate sensory environment (Se) into abstract concepts and intutive visions (Ni) I do take my time to make decisions however there is a difference between taking time to make decisions and being indecisive. Once I make a decision, I stick to it and see it through. I also does not relate at all to the potential ILI problem of getting pushed around by an Se dom. First of all my disdain for excessive social interactions (blind Fe) insulates me from a lot of unnecessary confrontations with Se types. In situations where I do end up with other types including high Se users, I make it clear that I prefer to be left alone and not bothered with unnecessarily. I think socionics puts too much emphasis on the "Brute Force" aspect of Se while neglecting a lot of other components of the function such as "adaptability", "focusing on the external sensory environment", "a taste for sensual experiences', "external indicators of success like fashionable clothing, expensive automobiles", "showmanship" etc. Other than this I find your ILI characterization to be largely accurate to my experience. I would love to hear your thoughts on this topic. P.S: Actually, I have lot more ambiguities regarding socionics at the moment. My experience of Ni in contrast to your description is as a synthesising function that tries to assimilate data points and perspectives to form a coherent whole while using criticism only as a tool to eliminate incomplete or false data or wrong perspectives. In short criticism is only secondary in importance and not as fundamental as your descriptions suggest. I also disagree with a lot of socionics typings
Jack, my ENFP sister told me she has no interest in engaging in heavy Te activities herself. But she heavily values other people (like her SLI Dual's creative) doing it for her. The mobilizing is weak and INERT and doesn't stop being childlike. It's a forever child. We value it 3D the same way we value our parents taking us on a trip. We value it for what others can give it. It's not meant to be the focus of our vocation. But it is meant to be the focus of our vacation. And we all value the time spent on vacations more than our jobs! But we pay for our vacation and get paid for our jobs that we do with our stronger Model A Demonstrative as compensation. Just as you yourself does heavy NeTe working with TeSi bank managers on your job.
My old best friend, who I figured out in retrospect was ENFP, was a peacemaker between her friends when she went to college. If anybody was getting into an argument, she would talk to all the different sides and try to see their points of view, then try to explain it to the others, in case there was a misunderstanding.
Very appreciative of you pushing through this series. I know it’s difficult with a baby!
thank you!
I am an IEE ENFP and what you said really describes me so well wow! I relate also to the Te part of wanting to come across as competent and I can actually be hardworking and I don't always like asking help, but sometimes I really have to ask for it.
social butterfly: no, but they "collect" people and also watch to always stay free enough. Excellent description around minute 9ff
Thank you, Jack, for making the video I actually on a journey to find out my type for a while, but you clarify it so thanks for the help
I'm only few minutes into the video and everything you said about being on a self-discovery journey and wanting to flourish and find all our potential is seriously one of the BEST descriptions of IEE i've seen, i also really like how you said that we aren't necessarily interested in unlocking the potential of other people but we definitely are focused on improving ourselves !
So excited for the SLI video since they definitely pique my curiosity the most and i would absolutely love to hear your thoughts on them
Agreed. I'm not really interested in unlocking the potential in other people, just me tbh. That was actually smth that threw me off when I read most descriptions about IEE
@@anasilva.272is caring greatly for the potential of others more of an Fe thing then? Because I definitely care to see others become their best selves and want to influence that.
@@anasilva.272It appears like that is too much of a subjective matter to generalize for all IEEs. It depends on the person really (see what I did there).
w/the ENFJ vs ENFP thing - I've noticed that a lot of lead Fe people really don't like being told that they're "judging," because they often care about being as non-judgmental as possible. There's also that stereotype about "chaos = ExxP," which can *feel* appropriate to lead Fe people because their constant emotional engagement & processing of emotional energy can *feel* quite chaotic.
So I can understand where such a person is coming from in typing as Ne-lead, or even Se-lead.
very good description of the ENFP IEE
I think Adam Driver is an ENFP. I remember seeing him putting on some kind of a suit and running around - it was a bomb suit, in Kuwait. Everyone's just kind of standing there watching him and laughing a little bit. He is an example of an ENFP who went into the military. He gives this impression of being sort of weak or clumsy, wanting to try on this suit to see what it feels like and how heavy it is, and seeing if he can run while he's wearing this.
My old friend used to do something that she called "fact-piling." If she was worried or upset about something, then in her mind, she would do the fact-piling. She would just jumble up a whole bunch of different, separated, discrete facts that couldn't really be connected together into a solid picture, and her conclusions would keep changing. 'Well, if this fact is true, then something, but if that other fact is true, then something else.'
Something that I believe is probably a forum full of ENFPs, run by an ENFP, is the MJ DeMarco Fastlane business forum. There was a guy who gave me a copy of one of his books years ago, and that was how I found out about it. This guy seems to be an ENFP telling people how to start their own business and escape from trying to save up money the slow way, by investing the money and compounding the interest over time. If the author himself wasn't an ENFP, he could at least be an ESTJ, and there seem to be lots of ENFPs there in the forum discussing things, looking for possibilities for how to start their own business. They all seem to feel as though they don't really fit in to a normal 'job.'
This is definitely my father , and a way better description than how people would speak about them and their having Ne Dom.
but crazy thing he's actually in a house like you described not fully because his enfj brother was fixing it until he caught dementia, or atleast until it was visible so now he's taking care of him
all together good one jack thanks i can actually use this
Nice work! I especially like the way you described Ti here - very often Ti vulnerable/Ti PoLR gets described as being like "um me so dumb, i iz not understand..." when I personally experience it more as feeling like I *do* understand because I've got the facts! So I'm ready to apply what I've learned! What do you mean it's not coherent? Oh well, too late now!
Something I've noticed in IEE's is that we'll find "hacks" to bypass structure when we want to get something done. E.g. I *strongly* suspect TH-camr Annie Dang is IEE, and in her video on songwriting, she discusses how she avoids having to learn music theory by just using online chord progression generators to spit out something that sounds good. That really stuck with me, because I'd already been doing the exact same thing for quite some time and for the exact same reason.
Sometimes I even look at vulnerable Ti as a feature, a strength, in the sense that an IEE won't be tempted into doing something they don't feel right about, just because it's consistent with some codified set of principles. E.g. you might not remember, but several months ago I mentioned there being a major strike in the university system where I worked; I was the only member of my department, and the only member from my local Democratic Socialists of America chapter, to publicly support an agreement to end the strike. It ultimately led to my falling-out with that DSA chapter, which didn't surprise me, but I had to prioritize the effect of an elongated strike on my family, on my colleagues, over a political platform. There were consequences, yes, but no regrets.
It certainly leads to a certain non-partisan quality with IEEs.
It's like with George Orwell, the socialist who spent much of his time bashing the excesses of socialism.
Finding hacks to bypass structures resonates with me as well !! (i'm also IEE), I do this in soo many different scenarios, for examples when playing video games i often don't really follow the tutorial or instructions and i prefer to find my own way of doing things, sometimes it gets messy but usually i end up creating my own efficient techniques and some little hacks. I also pretty much never follow tutorials for literally anything, if i have a hobby that oblige me to follow some structure or rigid step by step tutorial and if i don't get to be flexible and carefree then i immediately lose interest in the hobby
The stereotype about being dumb is so stupid and people who describe Ti polr that way have a very poor understanding of the functions and how they work
@@kamixae263 Ha ha, exactly this. There's that comfort in just figuring it out as you go.
With the "Ti PoLR me iz dumm" thing, I see it as there's these 16 personality types, and each type has multiple ways of being stupid in their own way.
Part of it is, I was raised Methodist and really internalized that whole "all have fallen short of the grace of God" thing - not to preach my religion to you, but just to lay out some of my gut feeling of suspicion towards a person who acts like they have unique access to genius because they belong to some particular made-up label, while all those other large swaths of people under some other made-up label are uniquely incapable.
I really value the ability to see one's own flaws, one's own shortcomings, and I've experienced some people who push the "Ti PoLR me iz dumm" thing in a way that showed they weren't willing to consider their own limitations - while also being unwilling to consider somebody else's contributions.
That's not to say that Ti PoLR won't produce its own set of frustrations for the people around us. I can think of many times in which I was profoundly frustrating for my LII mother. (One general pattern has been that I'll take her advice on a situation, then something else will come along and she'll be like "Why didn't you just do what I suggested on that other thing?!" - and I'm like, well...that was another thing! I didn't realize that was some general protocol, I just took that suggestion as a fix-it for that one situation and then this was a different situation...there were some different facts, Mom!).
But all around, all sorts of people have a way of figuring out how to make it through the day in all sorts of different settings - and people of different types simply have different strategies for navigating through those situations. If an IEE or SEE is incapable or unfair, it's not because they're Ti PoLR - it's because they're incapable or unfair, and they're expressing a particularly Ti PoLR flavor of being incapable or unfair. It's easy for me to imagine an ILE or LSI or LIE etc also being incapable or unfair, but in a different way or for different reasons - and it's just as easy for me to imagine people from all of these types being highly capable and perfectly fair to those around them.
@@iankinzel Yess exactly each type has multiple ways of being "stupid" in their own way, even tho i don't really like to use the word stupid but yeah they're just weak and vulnerable in different areas. And people who act like they are geniuses just because they belong to a made up label are the worst, unfortunately because of the stereotype i mistyped myself as an Entp ILE for such a long time, but then i realized that there is no way that i'm an Fi polr since i'm extremely good at people and managing my relationships, but then at the same time i know that i am not dumb and i'm actually very curious and love mental stimulation and i'm overall very confident in my intelligence so how am i a Ti polr ?? Thankfully i ended up realizing that it's more about limitations and structures and hierarchies than about intelligence yet unfortunately others immediately assume that Ti polr equals low intellect.
Having an LII mother seems tough since she is a Ti base so there's probably gonna be a lot of situations like the ones you mentioned where you will do some Ti polr things that she won't understand and approve of, but they totally make sense to you in your head
Personally one of the most Ti polr things i've done is when i hated the educational system SO MUCH because of how it would steal our freedom and youth and we have to study for hours for things we aren't passionate about and just do labor work instead of enjoying my hobbies and being carefree and doing things that i actually love and i'm passionate about. So, i decided to stop studying and do the opposite of what i was told because i was so frustrated and i felt so trapped as if i was in a cage, i ended up almost failing my second year of highschool because of this lol, but the only class that i like and enjoyed i kept getting excellent grades there.
It was very immature and irresponsible but to me i had my valid reasons, then the moment i finished highschool i immediatelyy took a gap year despite getting into a pretty good uni, and i decided to enjoy my time and travel, live my life to the fullest and just go on a self discovery journey (that's when i learned socionics) !
So from this, some people will see my behavior as illogical and will call me an idiot, which explains why people see us as dumb but it really isn't the case of "being stupid", it's not that we can't think, we just really value staying true to ourselves, making moral choices and being free spirited people
And yees this manifests differently for each type, honestly i've met quite a lot of types by now and i definitely think that Ti polr is one of the best polrs to have, it really makes you individualistic and a very genuine person, of course it has its ups and downs for example sometimes i do get overwhelmed by overly complex details, but compared to other polrs it's really not that bad and Ti polr is kinda fun actually haha. I know an Si polr and they have it sooooo much worse than us (health issues etc)
So hoooraayyy to Ti polr :D !!
I've shut off plenty of connections unfortunately. Its the weak Si that causes that really. I start overanalyzing the context of the friendship
This description matches my IEE sister exactly 💯
It's coherent bc humanity is a spectrum and there is a dissasociaiton in self states the issue is actually in Ti egos who blindly suck gulenko or ashtra and hence why subtypes are added with no actual Ti structure backing. Not saying all enfp are high iq but if there is a connection between various... practical applications I don't incoherent was a correct adjective
People shift self states and use all the functions mbti and socionics was proven not 1to1 so resorting to additional incoherence....
Thanks for the video, it looks like you just have the SLI left! Any plans for future videos in the Explained Correctly series?
Not sure. Maybe it will end at that point. I think I may focus more on typing celebrities next.
@@WorldSocionicsA discussion about Porcupinejasons video regarding world socionics societys typing of Taylor Swift as EII would be interesting. He claims EIE.
Considering Swifts popularity it might bring some new people to the world of socionics as well…:)
Congrats on 3k subs my guy
🎉
Hi Jack. Are you currently teaching any courses?
Yes I am! It's an extensive online course. I am also thinking of extending my 50% discount for it.
@@WorldSocionics that’s great. Where do I go to find out more about it?
Pop me an email at worldsocionics@hotmail.com and we can sort out the details, including sending you more information.@@riesweetandsour
I haven’t looked into IEE very much, but I’m surprised how much I relate to certain aspects of the type, despite being pretty clearly Se-Ni valuing. My Ti is certainly not PoLR, but I understand the perception of rigid structures being limiting to potential. I guess ‘potential’ to me has more to do with eventually actualising and deciding on a sure course of action, after having reviewed what might be worthwhile.
This is an excellent point, and I've noticed this become a point of confusion for people trying to figure out whether they're Se/Ni or Si/Ne.
That "potential" thing that gets attached to delta NF's can feel highly relatable for Ni-valuing folks, who see potential as needing to actualize that highly worthwhile end goal.
Well, I think we have one more type to make a complete set. I didn't realize this video was all the way back in August. I've had a lot going on. I should have started nagging you for the last video months ago.
It's not a blind spit its a super power 😝
Waiting for that SLI video.
So when are you going to cover SLI?
Would you make the IEE with enneagram 7 ? There are somethings I hear that are similar to the enneagram 3 which can be EIE I suppose
Nice interpretation ☺️
I don't know if I'm iee but id say if i am i would agree that there are concrete rules Ti just socionics is very flawed since why there are many counter arguments or trying to pick at its structure. (Perhaps)
I suppose this type best fits me thanks !
Please make SLI explained correctly.
I wonder when the SLI video will come out
Good question. Need some time... so busy...
Interesting to see EIE perspective on Ne Base.
@@SansAvecAmour2-kv3pf I believe it, the WSS cult will do anything for fame + power at this point since SHS came to town.
This dude is an insufferable idiot but he's an ILE (and an idiot in part because of that)
lmao my little brother type
I've met IEEs very loyal to a particular political party, so that part is not very correct. But the description of Ne and Fi ego was ok.
You can manifest your reality and talk to the source your energy creates your reality astrology and horoscopes and tarot are real
I think MBTI is a very NFP system, so this video kind of explains why the major flaws in the assessment exist. But my question for IEEs is: If you dislike finding the generalized pattern underneath all, as that limits further exploration, then how is the advice you’re giving to others “practical…?” I mean, if their advice is not following any pattern, then I highly doubt that the advice CAN be practically applied….
Te-base types do it all the time when they ignore Ti. They do what is pragmatic, what works depending on the situation. It's about adaptability.
Preferring a coherent and "static" understanding of things is the inverse of that.
@@eloy.. But the IEE’s Ti-polr is a little different from SEEs Ti-polr though, as mentioned in this video.
Because while SEEs also face that problem of their facts being somewhat disjointed (in favor of being pragmatic), they will quickly try to fix it if you point this disconnectedness out to them, due to seeking Ni.
If you tell the same thing to an IEE, however, they will typically give you more Si details, nuances, and examples, as this enables more areas of exploration, but still won’t like having to connect all of those details together to see the essential thing. OR they may shrug the whole thing off altogether as they will try anything to be free from any restrictions.
So my question was: how can an IEE be practical, as explained in this video, if there’s no underlying pattern that they are seeing or following? Because you almost need to be able to see that bigger picture problem IN ORDER to be impactful in reality.
@@beatofmyown If you are always searching for something you will never find it , because you're in a state of searching not finding so to speak , wisdom comes from our mistakes
( Everyone has a similar journey of integrating, individuation and self actualization . Society is built for some and others not so much )
They made a bunch mistakes so they can give practical advice due to being so practically Impractical .
People forget these valuable things about types ,
1# If you are a introvert you are naturally more ambivert , because society pushes us to be more extroverted (ATLEAST IN THE STATES)
2# If you are a feeler , you are a bit of a thinker , because our education system forced even the slowest of us to become so
3#If you have Ti in your stack you would have been forced to pick up and value Te for similar reasons above in addition the workforce (lose your job , don't get hired, don't get paid =bad consequences)
4# If you are in the states or somewhere similar , you would have mostly known of two realities the sj and the sp , in addition you would have mistaken the feeling types for female personalities and the thinking for male .
Which could have caused a whole bunch of problems if you were the opposite ,
IN some cultures sp personalities might be mistakes for male and sj for female youth atleast
others sp for females sj for males in regards to maturity atleast
nt male nf female if you are from a generally educated socioeconomical background (especially if you too are college educated , even more so from an ivy)
If you were an intuitive weirdo or sp bad kid (in school) , You would have had to integrate sj qualities to be perceived as normal and healthy , unless you could make money from artisan qualities ect and put other traits away in a bad (developing shadow behavior and structural disassociation)
So the IEE would have had to navigate all of that which could have gained them alot of skills like an jack of all trades and with their intuition seeing the potential in things and people they can give pretty good practical advise because ne is still tied into the tangible world and they do have te
@@beatofmyownSEEs and IEEs don't have a problem with their facts being disjointed, they have a problem with their **thoughts** being disjointed.
Also, the types don't go out of their way to "fix" problems with the 4th function. This function is weak, unvalued and inhibited. The switch is "off" as it were.
And moreover the types don't use the suggestive (5th function) the way you describe either, as if to output information. They are only **receptive** to information, hence the label "suggestive".
Edit: one way to address your question, with a question: Why would I need a preconceived pattern to hammer a nail on a wall?
@@eloy.. Are you an IEE?
Why is the SLI video taking so long
Full time job. 6 month old son, freelance work, community volunteering.
@@WorldSocionicsBasically...he's saying "I'm busy b*tch".
LOL. Eventually he dropped it so that's great.
Algo❤
I would write it as IEE (NeFi) (mbti-ENFP)
I feel exposed hahaha so accurate!
ok so im enfp then
Dude, you always use assertive as a synonym of aggressive and you're wrong.
They are very closely linked words, it's just that one has positive connotations while the other does not. If someone is aggressive it means they are assertive in excess.
sorry just looked thru your channel amd, youve worn a fedora b4 ? yeah no cant take u seriously now, sorry
Never worn a fedora. I have and currently do wear a trilby. It's a different hat.
You not gonna take someone seriously because they wore a hat a couple of years ago?
Now that's hilarious!!!
I am an ILI according to Socionics which translates as INTJ in MBTI. I am writing this comment to register my difference of opinion regarding how socionics interprets "Se". As an ILI, one of my weak aspects is supposed to be "Se" (suggestive function to be precise). However, my issues with "Se" is different from how you conceptualise it in your website and mention in the youtube video in ILI. My problem is not indecision or lack of forcefulness but a disdain for hugely sensory environments (such as a party), and also a tendency to favour planning and foresight (Ni-Te) over real time adaptability or on the spot maneouvoring (Se). My attention also often drifts away from the immediate sensory environment (Se) into abstract concepts and intutive visions (Ni)
I do take my time to make decisions however there is a difference between taking time to make decisions and being indecisive. Once I make a decision, I stick to it and see it through. I also does not relate at all to the potential ILI problem of getting pushed around by an Se dom. First of all my disdain for excessive social interactions (blind Fe) insulates me from a lot of unnecessary confrontations with Se types. In situations where I do end up with other types including high Se users, I make it clear that I prefer to be left alone and not bothered with unnecessarily.
I think socionics puts too much emphasis on the "Brute Force" aspect of Se while neglecting a lot of other components of the function such as "adaptability", "focusing on the external sensory environment", "a taste for sensual experiences', "external indicators of success like fashionable clothing, expensive automobiles", "showmanship" etc.
Other than this I find your ILI characterization to be largely accurate to my experience.
I would love to hear your thoughts on this topic.
P.S: Actually, I have lot more ambiguities regarding socionics at the moment. My experience of Ni in contrast to your description is as a synthesising function that tries to assimilate data points and perspectives to form a coherent whole while using criticism only as a tool to eliminate incomplete or false data or wrong perspectives. In short criticism is only secondary in importance and not as fundamental as your descriptions suggest. I also disagree with a lot of socionics typings
Jack, my ENFP sister told me she has no interest in engaging in heavy Te activities herself.
But she heavily values other people (like her SLI Dual's creative) doing it for her.
The mobilizing is weak and INERT and doesn't stop being childlike. It's a forever child.
We value it 3D the same way we value our parents taking us on a trip. We value it for what others can give it.
It's not meant to be the focus of our vocation. But it is meant to be the focus of our vacation.
And we all value the time spent on vacations more than our jobs!
But we pay for our vacation and get paid for our jobs that we do with our stronger Model A Demonstrative as compensation.
Just as you yourself does heavy NeTe working with TeSi bank managers on your job.