The P or J designation is based on the highest extroverted function. That is an error of description if you like. It doesn’t mean an introverted perceiver must lead with a perceiving function. That’s why INTPs are very logical.
i really enjoy your videos. very clear definitions, very logical flow, very easy to understand. watching this, i somehow feel sad for the ILIs lol... their vulnerable Fe and mobilizing Fi is very obvious to me. same for the SLIs.
ILI summary:- 1. Ni+Te= focus on objective strategy/commitment created from a detached perspective. 2. Ni leading makes them detached from reality and make them focus on understanding the Essense/theme behind the superficial. 3. Te= gathering facts and data to understand the general trend. Well read. 4. Superego Si+Fe= they value people who can create emotional warmth because they lack it. 5. Si role function are well aware of technical details but their main concern is the nature behind these details. 6. Fe vulnerable makes them sensitive to people who show emotions and hence their emotions come out as vulnerable. 7. Super id block:- can give harsh judgement of people character which people need to accept. 8. Se suggestive makes them visual planners and makes them passive aggressive toward people who have bad character. 9. Fi mobilizing judge people and their inner character without anybody noticing them. 10. Id block:- Ne+Ti makes them socially isolated.
no, they don't value the Superego block and so can undervalue the people using it, also weak in that regard so not aware of Si details, however they value people who enact force using Se and have good Fi character
As an ILI, I can confirm you nailed this description of my personality. I also hope you'll forgive me for saying it but, my god every idiot commenting on your video that you got it wrong and we use Ti+Ne reminds me how deeply I long for a comet or a meteor to wipe our wretched species off this planet. In any case, thank you for taking the time to share this very useful information with us. I hope you have a wonderful and rewarding life.
I wouldn't disagree but I think this is a picture of us at our harshest and underestimates our Fi and Se, which become much more prominent and developed with time. A teenage Ni-Te is probably going to look very much like this, and maybe someone in their early 20s, but I think this is the embittered profile that most of us are trying to develop beyond and meaningful relationships of any sort help us shift past this stuck point. I think there's an argument for either side of the J and P debate, but personally, I'd rather skip it entirely and use a different naming scheme and I think we can do better in that regard than either MBTI or Socionics. I personally use the MBTI naming scheme, mostly as a useful pop-culture reference that other people can understand, but I prefer to view things more from the classical Jungian standpoint.
I wish we could get Dario Nardi on board with the idea of what judger versus perceiver is. I got his book, years ago, with the brain scans, and I think I decided that he DOES switch the J and P for introverts, so all the brain scans are the wrong ones for the introverts. But I wasn't completely sure, and I even asked him on some facebook page somewhere, and he gave me a kind of confusing answer, which made me a little bit more sure. It was so obvious, and so amazing, to be able to just point your finger to one tiny little spot on the brain, FP1 and FP2, and say, 'If it's FP1, it's judger. If it's FP2, it's perceiver.' I hope I'm remembering those letters correctly, because it's been a few years since I looked at it. What I want is a handheld EEG brain scanner that you could just hold up to someone's forehead, do an EEG right there, and at the very minimum, be able to detect FP1 and FP2.
If only there were a shred of evidence to support his claims about the brain and Jungian type. Maybe when he finally submits an article to a journal for independent peer review, we will get some.
He was let go from UCLA a long time ago because He couldn't show his work and what not , it was a brilliant idea but no real science went into outside of the brain scans , far to random
@@WorldSocionics now Jack thats peer review bias (content-based bias, confirmation bias, bias due to conservatism, bias against interdisciplinary research, publication bias, and the bias of conflicts of interest.) dario is a God and you know it lol ....
I'm a bit ambivalent about this video. INTPs can be extremely humorous at times if they are so moved. Additionally, they do at times reframe seemingly negative experiences into more positive ones, at least for the sake of other people. Overall, the label of "critic" does seem appropriate in terms of their pointing out flaws in ideas, but collectively they don't seem quite as somber as portrayed here. Or maybe I've been more fortunate in my experiences with them, having seen more of their optimistic and light-hearted members and fewer of the more somber ones (which I won't deny certainly seem to exist).
Sure they're not just INTJs? INTPs can have a wicked sense of humour, but it's not about positivity, unless it's a rare occasion, usually fools getting their comeuppance.
Hey Jack, great explanation as always. One question: Would it be possible for an ILI's Fe PoLR to manifest as social anxiety? I know that you typically associate LIIs with avoidant traits, and ILIs with schizoid traits, and although that characterization does make sense, I do wonder if the inverse would also be possible.
I think that ILIs can have social anxiety in the form of potentially being threatened by irrational people who respond emotionally to what they say. The fear is not being disliked in and of itself, but rather the balance of power with people who overreact emotionally. Think, for instance of Salman Rushdie and how he has been attacked.
1:30 yes, it doesn’t make sense that a P type would lead with Ti. But it also doesn’t make sense that a J type (like infj/intj) would lead with Ni. 22:45 intj is a gamma type? I thought it was alpha (which may not make sense, but that’s what the theory says).
Hello, Jack! Is ILI INTP on MBTI while LII is INTJ on MBTI? A lot of conflicting claims online saying that LII is INTJ and ILI is INTP. Thank you for always answering my queries and keep up the great work!
ILI is the true INTP. LII is the true INTJ. The MBTI lot got it wrong, matching the cognitive functions of Introverts incorrectly due to an overly complicated, contradictory view of J/P
@@WorldSocionics Thank you for the quick response! Upon further investigation, I identify as MBTI INTJ and while reading the description of LII vs ILI, I do not rly relate to ILI and more of LII, esp on how you elaborated on your video. I appreciate your elaborate response as always!
I agree re the misconceptions and the J/P dichotomy however as an advocate of CPT I would postulate that it doesn't make logical sense say for Ti to evaluate anything without an adjoining codec namely Ni or Si. I actually related to this type much more than the others in socionics & im typed as a divergent TiNi ENFJ subtype in CPT.
I agree with you that it doesn't make sense for Ti to evaluate anything, without the thing to be analysed. The IM Elements don't exist in a vacuum but are blocked in pairs, so as soon as we articulate real instances, they are molecular, not elemental. We don't have Ti floating around on its own in real life, we have Ti+Ne or Ti+Se. Theoretical frameworks, or enforced rules. It is through abstraction that we come to appreciate the purer Ti that both have in common. As for 'adjoining codecs', this isn't what Ni or Si is about when you add up the 7 information dichotomies, so said codec is likely accounted for elsewhere. It sounds to me as though CPT is overly tangled up in itself if it postulates suggestive function subtypes, e.g. Ti subtype of ENFJ, Si subtype of ENTP, etc. This is like the glass lizard of OP. There is not point in being these types if your suggestive function is accentuated over your leading function.
Very good description. One thing I’ll add about ILIs but is rarely mentioned is how rigid they are about their schedules. They don’t like deviating from their plans unless absolutely necessary.
@@WorldSocionics I would question that a bit. This type is not about schedules and routines. It is about visions, plans, narratives och universal principles. If there is a rigid schedule then it is probably put in place for a particular higher purpose or goal, and not because the type needs it for psychological reasons (like feeling less anxious, needing stability, inability to be spontaneous, and so on).
i am intp and im proud to have no emotion, but have value a bit close relation, while able to see whats better than emotion, aka thinking, i want friend, and i want women, you know.whst why dont i become a women
I enjoy the more sober and matter of fact approach of socionics compared to the way mbti is often spoken about which can be bit silly. However socionics feels too simple in descriptions of functions sometimes? for example Fi seems like more than just assessment of people's character, I think it is/ can be applied to almost everything, no?
Fi is about personal attitude formation in general yes, however, if you have a personal attitude towards a chair, that chair can't have a personal attitude back towards you. With people, this creates relationships which is the most relevant aspect of Fi for describing how we behave and interact.
@@WorldSocionics Fi types absolutely have very strong attitudes about things such as chairs. this is why I left my comment as it's something vital that I think is left out by socionics. It feels like it might even be an FE bias to ignore that attitudes about non human things absolutely play a huge role in behaviour. The pursuit of beauty for instance can shape lives and affects behaviour. Why would that not be relevant in understanding the function?
@@WorldSocionics That's debateble I suppose, but so as not to get of track: You already conceded Fi as a function can be applied to anything. It is applied by Fi users to quite a lot besides people. But socionics seems to have arbitrarily decided that that it isn't relevant to include in a description of Fi. My argument is, that that is incredibly reductive of the function, and therefore fails to be a good description. It leaves out huge amounts of data about how fi users make decisions. It think socionics does this with the other functions too
To give a better expample, if an Fi user Chooses to travel to a country because they have an arbitrary attitude towards towards the nature and wildlife there. And then they end up spending their whole life living there. How would one make the argument that that isn't relevant to human behaviour?
I know this is an old video but i wanted to ask a question. What or where is a good place to take a socionics test, or is taking a test even worth it? To sum up my question, what is the best way to find out your own type?
Tests are hard to create and are rarely reliable. I offer a paid typing service which I believe to be the best way, short of learning the theory in depth yourself and typing yourself in conjunction with the views and perceptions of others who know you.
@@WorldSocionics It's a question of semiotics. Lower case j/p denotes that rationality/irrationality of the superior function. J/P denotes scheduled/freeform and correlates to the top extraverting function based on the presupposition of MBTI dichotomies that a person interacts in the world [at least that aspect relevant to J/P] thru the top exraverting function. For example, NiTe and TeNi interact in the world in a Te way with a focus on Te values. This correlates to the Keirsey intellect on Strategic Coordination. Which is about coordination resources towards a long-term strategic objective. This draws on intuition of development (Ni) and Te. Interestingly, the Contender Rational in Keirsey (Berens-Nardi: NiTe) is predisposed to the role of Contingency Planning. It has that negative attitude of seeing what can go wrong and what to do when it does.
@@BenVaserlan Sounds like J/P should indicate that rationality/irrationality is to be found in the superior function. The Socionics types are more truly J than the MBTI types as it is decided by the dominant function only. There is no reason why Socionics should make semiotic space for MBTI.
The whole Fe vulnerable section of the video I did not relate to although the rest I very much did. E.G. I want to be liked by others, I want to entertain people, I don’t hold grudges and I try not to offend anyone if I am criticising them. I’m not good at it but I value it. Does this mean I am not ILI?
This may be perceived as moot, but you often stated that the INTP personality isn't a theorist. However, I would argue that they are, as they hold a theory about everything and continually refine these theories with knowledge and experience. Can you clarify?
INTP doesn't seek a 'theory of everything'. They are critics and very critical of this idea of everything coming together nicely under a grand theory. ENTP and INTJ are the types that appreciate grand theories with their Ne and Ti, whilst INTP and ENTJ with their Te and Ni reject this.
Thank you kindly for your reply. Turns out I maybe be an MBTI INTJ. (Revoked, my data was incorrect.) Current data suggests INTP (MBTI) + LII @@WorldSocionics
Generally, an INTP in MBTI is an LII due to the order of their functions, and vice versa (an INTJ in MBTI is an ILI). However, it's important to note that these are two different typology systems, with differing views on functions and dichotomies, especially in regards to judging/perceiving.
Well, in the MBTI system they are actually quite consistent on how they use the P letter. It just refers to the Extraverted Perceiving function being in the Dominant or Supporting slot and with that they derive the P category with the nature of Se/Ne. So while it might be inexact to call them perceivers, while they actually mean extraverted perceivers, I still wonder why you want to combine socionics with MBTI. Just leave the 3 letter names, the only reason why you put the 4 letter code is for publicity in the first place, isn't it? So why not use the actual name? Or at least put the small letter that people are not getting confused.
A lot of what Jack writes about the INTP (ILI) lines up fairly accurately with the INTJ in the MBTI/Keirsey/Beebe/Berens models so as long as Jack prefaces his videos with that fact, I'm all for it. I agree that it confuses people and is one of my biggest pet peeves about Socionics. That said, the type profiles line up pretty accurately so it isn't the end of the world. Things will eventually clear themselves up as more people realize that Socionics swapped the J/P dichotomy. It's a smart marketing move to use the MBTI letter dichotomies because very few people are searching for "LII" or "ILI' or any of the socionics terms if you look at the google keyword trends trajectory. Jack is pragmatic so our slight annoyance is likely of little concern to him in the grand scheme of things when compared to the massive boost in viewership he receives.
J/P is used consistently, although in a highly convoluted, counter-intuitive way. My criticism about consistency is that skipping over the dominant and going to the auxiliary for introverts is inconsistent with how Extraverted and Introverted is determined, i.e. by solely looking at the Dominant function. And it's entirely based on a false assumption that cognitive functions are only observable in behaviour when they're extraverted.
He's arguing (perhaps not clearly enough) for the lettering system from a Socionics viewpoint, where the introverted types have the J and P switched around from the MBTI system. Which I possibly agree with. An INTJ in Socionics is an INTP and INTP in Socionics is an INTJ. The MBTI lettering system works fine for extroverts, but is probably more confusing than helpful for the introverts. If, for example, you take an MBTI INTJ, Ni + Te (etc.), that lead function isn't a Judging function, it's a Perceiving function, which makes for much confusion. I suppose if you were arguing for the MBTI position, I guess it would be the function the external world is going to encounter first, so the first extroverted function, which would be Te here. Or Ne with the MBTI INTP.
If the functions that someone's using are Ni Te, they'll be ILI in socionics, but if they use Ti Ne, they'll be LII. ILI has 'intuitive' in first place, so it's an irrational type, a perceiver, as intuition and sensing are perceiving functions. LII has 'logic' in first place, so it's a rational type, a judger, as thinking and feeling are judging functions.
INTP = dominant function is Introverted, he's using iNtuition and Thinking, P means his dominant function is percieving (Se, Ne, Si or Ni), so INTPs dominant function is Ni. If it was INTJ, his dominant function would be judging function (Te, Fe, Ti or Fi), so thinking, more precisely Ti. It's different from mbti in that sense.
shadow functions are the main function of intp because they are introvert and perception which means after going through my vast knowledge base they are constantly understress so shadow function is the one they use
I actually think Isaac Newton is more of an LII than ILI. He was more of a theory builder than a theory destroyer, or critic. He also had intense proclivities toward the philosophical
Newton was ILI or Socionics INTP. Being theoretical doesn't necessarily mean Ti dom. All scientists need a certain level of theoretical mastery without which they can't make their discoveries. Finally the whole assumption of Theory equals Ti and Practical equals Te is too simplistic. However even by that system, Newton was ultimately driven by practical considerations and not theory for its own sake Take Newton's version of Calculus for example, he regarded it as a tool (Te) for the practical purposes he wished to put it to use . Theoretical finesse of Calculus was secondary to him compared to its practical use. On the contrary is the Leibniz version which is more theoretically refined (Ti) . There is also a certain intuitive visionary nature to Newton that surpasses his theoretical ingeneousness. This is what Keynes said about Newton: "He was not first of the age of reason but last of the age of magicians." No better statement can be made about the nature of Ni than this. Jung even associates Nu specifically with visionary nature, magic and shamanic prophets. Finally philosophical musings has nothing special to do with socionics INTJ. A lot of types attempt philosophical musings, so you can't use it to type. For more information watch The vs Ti video by Michael Pierce and also videos on INTJ and INTP by him. Idrlabs page is also a great resource
The P or J designation is based on the highest extroverted function. That is an error of description if you like. It doesn’t mean an introverted perceiver must lead with a perceiving function. That’s why INTPs are very logical.
i really enjoy your videos. very clear definitions, very logical flow, very easy to understand. watching this, i somehow feel sad for the ILIs lol... their vulnerable Fe and mobilizing Fi is very obvious to me. same for the SLIs.
ILI summary:-
1. Ni+Te= focus on objective strategy/commitment created from a detached perspective.
2. Ni leading makes them detached from reality and make them focus on understanding the Essense/theme behind the superficial.
3. Te= gathering facts and data to understand the general trend. Well read.
4. Superego Si+Fe= they value people who can create emotional warmth because they lack it.
5. Si role function are well aware of technical details but their main concern is the nature behind these details.
6. Fe vulnerable makes them sensitive to people who show emotions and hence their emotions come out as vulnerable.
7. Super id block:- can give harsh judgement of people character which people need to accept.
8. Se suggestive makes them visual planners and makes them passive aggressive toward people who have bad character.
9. Fi mobilizing judge people and their inner character without anybody noticing them.
10. Id block:- Ne+Ti makes them socially isolated.
no, they don't value the Superego block and so can undervalue the people using it, also weak in that regard so not aware of Si details, however they value people who enact force using Se and have good Fi character
@@mintmaddie3963 lol
@@yuganshmehta83 lol indeed
As an ILI, I can confirm you nailed this description of my personality. I also hope you'll forgive me for saying it but, my god every idiot commenting on your video that you got it wrong and we use Ti+Ne reminds me how deeply I long for a comet or a meteor to wipe our wretched species off this planet. In any case, thank you for taking the time to share this very useful information with us. I hope you have a wonderful and rewarding life.
you want all of hunanity to die cuz ppl dont understand type theory well? pretty harsh.
Okay... Hahaha
Five years down the line you'll look at your own comment and wince. Maturity has that effect on people.
@@four2896 same to you buddy, maybe learn to lighten up and not take everything you read in the comment section of youtube seriously
I’m about to have so much fun bing watching your videos
ILIs be like: 🧐😐🤔
Observation and contemplation
I wouldn't disagree but I think this is a picture of us at our harshest and underestimates our Fi and Se, which become much more prominent and developed with time. A teenage Ni-Te is probably going to look very much like this, and maybe someone in their early 20s, but I think this is the embittered profile that most of us are trying to develop beyond and meaningful relationships of any sort help us shift past this stuck point.
I think there's an argument for either side of the J and P debate, but personally, I'd rather skip it entirely and use a different naming scheme and I think we can do better in that regard than either MBTI or Socionics. I personally use the MBTI naming scheme, mostly as a useful pop-culture reference that other people can understand, but I prefer to view things more from the classical Jungian standpoint.
Excellent description.
Socionics smokes MBTI out of the water, so much better.
You deserve a subscribe cuz not everyone can get through the head of the personality types as you do, keep going
I wish we could get Dario Nardi on board with the idea of what judger versus perceiver is. I got his book, years ago, with the brain scans, and I think I decided that he DOES switch the J and P for introverts, so all the brain scans are the wrong ones for the introverts. But I wasn't completely sure, and I even asked him on some facebook page somewhere, and he gave me a kind of confusing answer, which made me a little bit more sure. It was so obvious, and so amazing, to be able to just point your finger to one tiny little spot on the brain, FP1 and FP2, and say, 'If it's FP1, it's judger. If it's FP2, it's perceiver.' I hope I'm remembering those letters correctly, because it's been a few years since I looked at it. What I want is a handheld EEG brain scanner that you could just hold up to someone's forehead, do an EEG right there, and at the very minimum, be able to detect FP1 and FP2.
If only there were a shred of evidence to support his claims about the brain and Jungian type. Maybe when he finally submits an article to a journal for independent peer review, we will get some.
@@WorldSocionics What do you believe Dario’s type is? LII? I refuse to believe ILI, which I think he claims to be.
He was let go from UCLA a long time ago because He couldn't show his work and what not , it was a brilliant idea but no real science went into outside of the brain scans , far to random
@@WorldSocionics now Jack thats peer review bias (content-based bias, confirmation bias, bias due to conservatism, bias against interdisciplinary research, publication bias, and the bias of conflicts of interest.)
dario is a God and you know it lol ....
Dario Nardi is a great ILI typologist
Eugene Porter from The Walking Dead a good example of intp sociotype
I'm a bit ambivalent about this video. INTPs can be extremely humorous at times if they are so moved. Additionally, they do at times reframe seemingly negative experiences into more positive ones, at least for the sake of other people.
Overall, the label of "critic" does seem appropriate in terms of their pointing out flaws in ideas, but collectively they don't seem quite as somber as portrayed here. Or maybe I've been more fortunate in my experiences with them, having seen more of their optimistic and light-hearted members and fewer of the more somber ones (which I won't deny certainly seem to exist).
Sure they're not just INTJs? INTPs can have a wicked sense of humour, but it's not about positivity, unless it's a rare occasion, usually fools getting their comeuppance.
Literally me fr fr
Hey Jack, great explanation as always.
One question: Would it be possible for an ILI's Fe PoLR to manifest as social anxiety? I know that you typically associate LIIs with avoidant traits, and ILIs with schizoid traits, and although that characterization does make sense, I do wonder if the inverse would also be possible.
I think that ILIs can have social anxiety in the form of potentially being threatened by irrational people who respond emotionally to what they say. The fear is not being disliked in and of itself, but rather the balance of power with people who overreact emotionally. Think, for instance of Salman Rushdie and how he has been attacked.
@@WorldSocionics Or perhaps they're afraid others may expose their own irrationality.
I you provide me with the sense urgency feeling i can be a force to reckon with
1:30 yes, it doesn’t make sense that a P type would lead with Ti. But it also doesn’t make sense that a J type (like infj/intj) would lead with Ni.
22:45 intj is a gamma type? I thought it was alpha (which may not make sense, but that’s what the theory says).
INTJ is an alpha, INTP is a gamma
Hello, Jack! Is ILI INTP on MBTI while LII is INTJ on MBTI? A lot of conflicting claims online saying that LII is INTJ and ILI is INTP. Thank you for always answering my queries and keep up the great work!
ILI is the true INTP. LII is the true INTJ. The MBTI lot got it wrong, matching the cognitive functions of Introverts incorrectly due to an overly complicated, contradictory view of J/P
@@WorldSocionics Thank you for the quick response! Upon further investigation, I identify as MBTI INTJ and while reading the description of LII vs ILI, I do not rly relate to ILI and more of LII, esp on how you elaborated on your video. I appreciate your elaborate response as always!
Waiting for the ISTP SLI video.
I agree re the misconceptions and the J/P dichotomy however as an advocate of CPT I would postulate that it doesn't make logical sense say for Ti to evaluate anything without an adjoining codec namely Ni or Si. I actually related to this type much more than the others in socionics & im typed as a divergent TiNi ENFJ subtype in CPT.
I agree with you that it doesn't make sense for Ti to evaluate anything, without the thing to be analysed. The IM Elements don't exist in a vacuum but are blocked in pairs, so as soon as we articulate real instances, they are molecular, not elemental. We don't have Ti floating around on its own in real life, we have Ti+Ne or Ti+Se. Theoretical frameworks, or enforced rules. It is through abstraction that we come to appreciate the purer Ti that both have in common.
As for 'adjoining codecs', this isn't what Ni or Si is about when you add up the 7 information dichotomies, so said codec is likely accounted for elsewhere.
It sounds to me as though CPT is overly tangled up in itself if it postulates suggestive function subtypes, e.g. Ti subtype of ENFJ, Si subtype of ENTP, etc. This is like the glass lizard of OP. There is not point in being these types if your suggestive function is accentuated over your leading function.
Very good description. One thing I’ll add about ILIs but is rarely mentioned is how rigid they are about their schedules. They don’t like deviating from their plans unless absolutely necessary.
Thanks. Good point, follows from their Ne Ignoring
@@WorldSocionics I would question that a bit. This type is not about schedules and routines. It is about visions, plans, narratives och universal principles. If there is a rigid schedule then it is probably put in place for a particular higher purpose or goal, and not because the type needs it for psychological reasons (like feeling less anxious, needing stability, inability to be spontaneous, and so on).
Well said🤝 #intp
i am intp and im proud to have no emotion, but have value a bit close relation, while able to see whats better than emotion, aka thinking, i want friend, and i want women, you know.whst why dont i become a women
I enjoy the more sober and matter of fact approach of socionics compared to the way mbti is often spoken about which can be bit silly.
However socionics feels too simple in descriptions of functions sometimes? for example Fi seems like more than just assessment of people's character, I think it is/ can be applied to almost everything, no?
Fi is about personal attitude formation in general yes, however, if you have a personal attitude towards a chair, that chair can't have a personal attitude back towards you. With people, this creates relationships which is the most relevant aspect of Fi for describing how we behave and interact.
@@WorldSocionics Fi types absolutely have very strong attitudes about things such as chairs. this is why I left my comment as it's something vital that I think is left out by socionics. It feels like it might even be an FE bias to ignore that attitudes about non human things absolutely play a huge role in behaviour.
The pursuit of beauty for instance can shape lives and affects behaviour.
Why would that not be relevant in understanding the function?
@@rem_av the pursuit of beauty isn't really Fi though, it's about a harmonious coincidence of sensory qualities, Si.
@@WorldSocionics That's debateble I suppose, but so as not to get of track: You already conceded Fi as a function can be applied to anything. It is applied by Fi users to quite a lot besides people. But socionics seems to have arbitrarily decided that that it isn't relevant to include in a description of Fi.
My argument is, that that is incredibly reductive of the function, and therefore fails to be a good description. It leaves out huge amounts of data about how fi users make decisions.
It think socionics does this with the other functions too
To give a better expample, if an Fi user Chooses to travel to a country because they have an arbitrary attitude towards towards the nature and wildlife there. And then they end up spending their whole life living there. How would one make the argument that that isn't relevant to human behaviour?
Well Explained....
I know this is an old video but i wanted to ask a question. What or where is a good place to take a socionics test, or is taking a test even worth it? To sum up my question, what is the best way to find out your own type?
Tests are hard to create and are rarely reliable. I offer a paid typing service which I believe to be the best way, short of learning the theory in depth yourself and typing yourself in conjunction with the views and perceptions of others who know you.
My understanding is as process types they see the details more than Results LIIs.
This would depend on the individual of each type
It's "INTp" not "INTP". Correct title: "INTp - "The Critic" - I.L.I. - Not what you think it is"
Question, why is it p/j rather than P/J? Is there something in Socionics that means these letters ought to be correctly be lower case?
@@WorldSocionics It's a question of semiotics. Lower case j/p denotes that rationality/irrationality of the superior function. J/P denotes scheduled/freeform and correlates to the top extraverting function based on the presupposition of MBTI dichotomies that a person interacts in the world [at least that aspect relevant to J/P] thru the top exraverting function. For example, NiTe and TeNi interact in the world in a Te way with a focus on Te values. This correlates to the Keirsey intellect on Strategic Coordination. Which is about coordination resources towards a long-term strategic objective. This draws on intuition of development (Ni) and Te. Interestingly, the Contender Rational in Keirsey (Berens-Nardi: NiTe) is predisposed to the role of Contingency Planning. It has that negative attitude of seeing what can go wrong and what to do when it does.
@@BenVaserlan Sounds like J/P should indicate that rationality/irrationality is to be found in the superior function. The Socionics types are more truly J than the MBTI types as it is decided by the dominant function only.
There is no reason why Socionics should make semiotic space for MBTI.
The whole Fe vulnerable section of the video I did not relate to although the rest I very much did. E.G. I want to be liked by others, I want to entertain people, I don’t hold grudges and I try not to offend anyone if I am criticising them. I’m not good at it but I value it. Does this mean I am not ILI?
Maybe look at the INTJ explained correctly.
This may be perceived as moot, but you often stated that the INTP personality isn't a theorist. However, I would argue that they are, as they hold a theory about everything and continually refine these theories with knowledge and experience. Can you clarify?
INTP doesn't seek a 'theory of everything'. They are critics and very critical of this idea of everything coming together nicely under a grand theory. ENTP and INTJ are the types that appreciate grand theories with their Ne and Ti, whilst INTP and ENTJ with their Te and Ni reject this.
@@WorldSocionics Correction, they have theory FOR everything. The idea that you could have a theory of everything is asinine at best.
what would you say are the main differences between an ili and an lii
ili is more imaginative. Lii is more of a stem-type person. ili is more like enneatype 9, while Lii is more like enneatype 5.
ili cant be E9@@winggoddess
Popper would probably think that Socionic/Jungian typology is bullshit lmao
I got INTP on socionics and INTJ on mbti what's the difference.
Can an MBTI INTP (Ti-Ne-Si-Fe) be this Socionics Type? I feel a lot of discord over LII vs ILI. I'm 5w6 513, and I seem to feel divided between types.
Maybe check both the INTJ and INTP explained correctly videos. If no luck, happy to do a type diagnostic interview.
Thank you kindly for your reply. Turns out I maybe be an MBTI INTJ. (Revoked, my data was incorrect.) Current data suggests INTP (MBTI) + LII @@WorldSocionics
Generally, an INTP in MBTI is an LII due to the order of their functions, and vice versa (an INTJ in MBTI is an ILI). However, it's important to note that these are two different typology systems, with differing views on functions and dichotomies, especially in regards to judging/perceiving.
what are the differences between ILI and LII?
There are many, but the chief difference are the values. They have opposite values despite identical strengths.
Could an ILI in Socionics in the mbti tier IT system as the dominant function, even in sosionic the base function be NI?
Well, in the MBTI system they are actually quite consistent on how they use the P letter. It just refers to the Extraverted Perceiving function being in the Dominant or Supporting slot and with that they derive the P category with the nature of Se/Ne. So while it might be inexact to call them perceivers, while they actually mean extraverted perceivers, I still wonder why you want to combine socionics with MBTI. Just leave the 3 letter names, the only reason why you put the 4 letter code is for publicity in the first place, isn't it? So why not use the actual name? Or at least put the small letter that people are not getting confused.
A lot of what Jack writes about the INTP (ILI) lines up fairly accurately with the INTJ in the MBTI/Keirsey/Beebe/Berens models so as long as Jack prefaces his videos with that fact, I'm all for it.
I agree that it confuses people and is one of my biggest pet peeves about Socionics. That said, the type profiles line up pretty accurately so it isn't the end of the world. Things will eventually clear themselves up as more people realize that Socionics swapped the J/P dichotomy. It's a smart marketing move to use the MBTI letter dichotomies because very few people are searching for "LII" or "ILI' or any of the socionics terms if you look at the google keyword trends trajectory. Jack is pragmatic so our slight annoyance is likely of little concern to him in the grand scheme of things when compared to the massive boost in viewership he receives.
J/P is used consistently, although in a highly convoluted, counter-intuitive way. My criticism about consistency is that skipping over the dominant and going to the auxiliary for introverts is inconsistent with how Extraverted and Introverted is determined, i.e. by solely looking at the Dominant function.
And it's entirely based on a false assumption that cognitive functions are only observable in behaviour when they're extraverted.
@@WorldSocionicsyou don't need to combine them. Just say this is socionics and that is MBTI. You use MBTI terms for marketing purpose only
who says I'm combining them? MBTI simply needs to be deleted and overwritten.@@caffemocca8855
But socionics isn't better than mbti lol. Both are frauds @@WorldSocionics
INTP is actually Ti +Ne (dominant introverted thinking and secondary extroverted intuition).
He's arguing (perhaps not clearly enough) for the lettering system from a Socionics viewpoint, where the introverted types have the J and P switched around from the MBTI system. Which I possibly agree with. An INTJ in Socionics is an INTP and INTP in Socionics is an INTJ. The MBTI lettering system works fine for extroverts, but is probably more confusing than helpful for the introverts. If, for example, you take an MBTI INTJ, Ni + Te (etc.), that lead function isn't a Judging function, it's a Perceiving function, which makes for much confusion.
I suppose if you were arguing for the MBTI position, I guess it would be the function the external world is going to encounter first, so the first extroverted function, which would be Te here. Or Ne with the MBTI INTP.
wrong Ti is a judging function.
INTP is ILI, but how?
If the functions that someone's using are Ni Te, they'll be ILI in socionics, but if they use Ti Ne, they'll be LII. ILI has 'intuitive' in first place, so it's an irrational type, a perceiver, as intuition and sensing are perceiving functions. LII has 'logic' in first place, so it's a rational type, a judger, as thinking and feeling are judging functions.
ILI are actually the MBTI’s INTJ’s not us INTP’s whom are in fact socionics LII’s
INTP = dominant function is Introverted, he's using iNtuition and Thinking, P means his dominant function is percieving (Se, Ne, Si or Ni), so INTPs dominant function is Ni. If it was INTJ, his dominant function would be judging function (Te, Fe, Ti or Fi), so thinking, more precisely Ti. It's different from mbti in that sense.
INTP don’t have Ni or Te, what are you on about??
This isn't the Mbti. It is Socionics - a theory steps ahead from the Mbti
@@edomichael942 u means steps wrong from the MBTI? 😂
shadow functions are the main function of intp because they are introvert and perception which means after going through my vast knowledge base they are constantly understress so shadow function is the one they use
@@Coneman3mbti is bullshit thing created by a mom and daughter with zero knowledge
@@Coneman3intp in socionics is intj, intj in socionics is intp in your mbti shit
I actually think Isaac Newton is more of an LII than ILI. He was more of a theory builder than a theory destroyer, or critic. He also had intense proclivities toward the philosophical
Newton was ILI or Socionics INTP. Being theoretical doesn't necessarily mean Ti dom. All scientists need a certain level of theoretical mastery without which they can't make their discoveries. Finally the whole assumption of Theory equals Ti and Practical equals Te is too simplistic. However even by that system, Newton was ultimately driven by practical considerations and not theory for its own sake
Take Newton's version of Calculus for example, he regarded it as a tool (Te) for the practical purposes he wished to put it to use . Theoretical finesse of Calculus was secondary to him compared to its practical use. On the contrary is the Leibniz version which is more theoretically refined (Ti) . There is also a certain intuitive visionary nature to Newton that surpasses his theoretical ingeneousness.
This is what Keynes said about Newton: "He was not first of the age of reason but last of the age of magicians."
No better statement can be made about the nature of Ni than this. Jung even associates Nu specifically with visionary nature, magic and shamanic prophets.
Finally philosophical musings has nothing special to do with socionics INTJ. A lot of types attempt philosophical musings, so you can't use it to type.
For more information watch The vs Ti video by Michael Pierce and also videos on INTJ and INTP by him. Idrlabs page is also a great resource
Now hit that like button another smash