Tesla represented FSD to purchasers which they have not delivered on. Tesla did not represent a time line. Also Tesla did update HW2 to HW3 therefor setting precedent which IMO is class actionable.
@@FSDdriver In a court of law misrepresentation does not care how hard it is. If it goes there I'm sure Tesla will resolve the problem for the few HW3 owner there are. You need to also understand the hype behind FSD as represented by Tesla and the effect the hype has had on the stock. It will be argued that the some of the current valuation of Tesla is as a result of the representation therefore it will become cheep for Tesla to provide HW4 for HW3 users even if it comes in the form of a replacement car.
I think there is something to gain. Specifically, continued subscription revenue and robotaxi volume when that launches. Regardless of the cost, they pre-sold this product and they should deliver if they want customers to continue to favor them and have repeat purchases in the future
You say they don't get anything in return. But, if people are paying for the $99 a month, they are getting something. And there are far more HW3 cars on the road than HW4. If they can build a retro-fit computer that replaces a HW3 computer, I might be willing to pay for it. But ONLY if there is a significant improvement in performance. Right now, most of the youtube videos I've seen showing FSD13 don't really seem like much more than a minor incremental improvement over FSD12.
Swapping some or all of the cameras might be necessary. It probably would be best to incentivise transfers of FSD to new vehicles until only a small number of HW3 with FSD hold-outs remain. Then only aim to deliver basic unsupervised FSD on existing HW3, not full robotaxi capable FSD.
v13 on HW4 will straighten the algorithm and driving data, as usual in the AI, it will be refined and made 10s of times lighter for the hardware. Not only HW3 will be capable of running v13, but it will do a lot more. Viable until at least v15, when the hardware requirements will be drastically different. But 100% sure that v13 will run fine on HW3 after few months.
FSD v12.5.4.2 is a one long intervention for me. I can't keep consistent speeds and tends to sit in the left lane on the Florida interstate, which is extremely annoying. 85 mph is just not fast enough for that lane in Florida, and it never reaches that speed on its own. This is the worst update for me.
Tesla will continue to string H/W 3 owners along, with the suggestion that a free H/W 4 will be rolled out. After a few years it will dawn on H/W owners that maybe it is never going to happen, meanwhile H/W 4 users will be experiencing the same thing with H/W 5.
Seems like it at this point. These are computers with wheels, they are outdated in 6 months and they don't seems to have modular designs we can quickly swap
Elon said that they will upgrade FSD computer for free if they cannot solve FSD on HW3. At least don't spread FUD if you intentionally ignore all his announcements!
You also didn't talk about the possibility that FSD 13 might be able to be optimized after significant effort to run on HW3 vehicles. That has not yet been ruled out. But it will take longer and Tesla has to perfect the software on HW4 first before they can do the optimization work. We shall see!
It’s still a loss for Tesla! They’re spending money on developers to support an old legacy system instead of making breakthroughs for the future. It’s like that old lady calling GE about a blender she bought back in the 1970s to be fixed in 2025! Go buy a new one. Here’s the deal: HW3 software development is dead. It’s time to look ahead! Companies really should inform consumers about official software support. Take Apple, for example-they offer 7 years of OS updates. This way, users know they should buy an iPhone over the competition, which only has 1 year of OS support. Who wouldn’t want that peace of mind with 7 years of updates guaranteed? Tesla really needs to start announcing dates and times for software support on their vehicles. I want to know when a car is going to be sunset so I can sell it to someone who doesn’t care! Plus, it helps me figure out if I should lease every 3 years or sell every 4 years if I own. That way, I can keep up with all the new software forever! What we get from Tesla officially is absolutely NOTHING! The CEO makes conflicting statements, and there’s no real evidence or game plan to back up what they say. There’s zero transparency! If there was, we wouldn’t even be having these discussions-we would already know the truth and the plan moving forward. Rip the bandaid off.
@@FSDdriver We were promised that the car was capable of autonomous driving at the time it was purchased. Some paid as much at $15,000 for FSD. I for one am ready to join a class action suit to get my money back if Tesla cannot deliver.
I would say free FSD on my account rather than per vehicle and the option of I own multiple Teslas to pick and choose what one I want FSD on at any time
I think Tesla should include FSD on ALL their vehicles to differentiate themselves from the rest of the market as many vehicles on the road today have the same level of Auto Pilot as the standard AP offering from Tesla or at most make it a $29.99/mo subscription. As far as making HW3 run end-to-end FSD, I think they will manage, just takes time to optimize it and downgrade several aspects of the new platform. Maybe slower framerates, lower object resolutions, slower response, etc.
Your not taking into account that they added HW4 to the Model Y without waiting for Juniper. If they can do that, then they can at least offer it as a paid upgrade to Model 3 owners.
You can only add HW4 to cars while IN the production line! Once a car is "produced," you would need to rip it all apart to "Upgrade" hardware. Please understand it's easy to build a car while it's being produced. This is exactly why Tesla does not do Year End Models, they upgrade as they go adding things in the assembly line. They never go back to already produced cars and upgrade things later. For example, I have one of the first 1,000 Model Y's produced. I'm missing a USB port in my glove compartment. In order for me to get that update, which came out a month later, Tesla would first need to rip my car's interior apart, run new wires to that location, add a new dashboard glove box that supports the USB port, then wire it together, while also pushing out a software upgrade so my car knows it now has that USB port and can use it to record century events, all at a loss of time and money to Tesla. That's just one small thing and that wire does not run through the FRAME of the car like the cameras do and other wire harnesses that need to be replaced. You need to understand the difference between the words being "UPGRADED" and being "PRODUCED".
I think when you turn the car onto the "auto beta speed" the car will favor the fast lane. I'm trying to do more testing on this with that setting on and off.
some of us are upside-down on our tesla (2022) leaving the whole ~fsd transfer~ not a viable option. This is a Lawsuit waiting to happen considering HW3 out numbers HW4 almost 3:1.
@@FSDdriver I'm not all about lawsuits anyhow,it's a culture I have very little respect for... but I'm quite sure there are plenty of folks just itching to sue SMH
Tesla represented FSD to purchasers which they have not delivered on. Tesla did not represent a time line. Also Tesla did update HW2 to HW3 therefor setting precedent which IMO is class actionable.
2 to 3 hardware is easy as it didn't require full disassemble of the vehicle
@@FSDdriver In a court of law misrepresentation does not care how hard it is. If it goes there I'm sure Tesla will resolve the problem for the few HW3 owner there are. You need to also understand the hype behind FSD as represented by Tesla and the effect the hype has had on the stock. It will be argued that the some of the current valuation of Tesla is as a result of the representation therefore it will become cheep for Tesla to provide HW4 for HW3 users even if it comes in the form of a replacement car.
I think there is something to gain. Specifically, continued subscription revenue and robotaxi volume when that launches. Regardless of the cost, they pre-sold this product and they should deliver if they want customers to continue to favor them and have repeat purchases in the future
You say they don't get anything in return. But, if people are paying for the $99 a month, they are getting something. And there are far more HW3 cars on the road than HW4. If they can build a retro-fit computer that replaces a HW3 computer, I might be willing to pay for it. But ONLY if there is a significant improvement in performance. Right now, most of the youtube videos I've seen showing FSD13 don't really seem like much more than a minor incremental improvement over FSD12.
Swapping some or all of the cameras might be necessary. It probably would be best to incentivise transfers of FSD to new vehicles until only a small number of HW3 with FSD hold-outs remain. Then only aim to deliver basic unsupervised FSD on existing HW3, not full robotaxi capable FSD.
v13 on HW4 will straighten the algorithm and driving data, as usual in the AI, it will be refined and made 10s of times lighter for the hardware. Not only HW3 will be capable of running v13, but it will do a lot more. Viable until at least v15, when the hardware requirements will be drastically different. But 100% sure that v13 will run fine on HW3 after few months.
I hope you are right.
I hope you're right and I'm wrong. Truly it would be nice to have the newest version like in the old days
Im in the boat of I want to buy it on my AI3 car IF i got the upgrade but not knowing for sure keeps me from buying it! Need definitive roadmap
FSD v12.5.4.2 is a one long intervention for me. I can't keep consistent speeds and tends to sit in the left lane on the Florida interstate, which is extremely annoying. 85 mph is just not fast enough for that lane in Florida, and it never reaches that speed on its own. This is the worst update for me.
Tesla will continue to string H/W 3 owners along, with the suggestion that a free H/W 4 will be rolled out. After a few years it will dawn on H/W owners that maybe it is never going to happen, meanwhile H/W 4 users will be experiencing the same thing with H/W 5.
Seems like it at this point. These are computers with wheels, they are outdated in 6 months and they don't seems to have modular designs we can quickly swap
Elon said that they will upgrade FSD computer for free if they cannot solve FSD on HW3.
At least don't spread FUD if you intentionally ignore all his announcements!
lol elon says a lot of things.........
You also didn't talk about the possibility that FSD 13 might be able to be optimized after significant effort to run on HW3 vehicles. That has not yet been ruled out. But it will take longer and Tesla has to perfect the software on HW4 first before they can do the optimization work.
We shall see!
It’s still a loss for Tesla! They’re spending money on developers to support an old legacy system instead of making breakthroughs for the future. It’s like that old lady calling GE about a blender she bought back in the 1970s to be fixed in 2025! Go buy a new one.
Here’s the deal: HW3 software development is dead. It’s time to look ahead! Companies really should inform consumers about official software support. Take Apple, for example-they offer 7 years of OS updates. This way, users know they should buy an iPhone over the competition, which only has 1 year of OS support. Who wouldn’t want that peace of mind with 7 years of updates guaranteed?
Tesla really needs to start announcing dates and times for software support on their vehicles. I want to know when a car is going to be sunset so I can sell it to someone who doesn’t care! Plus, it helps me figure out if I should lease every 3 years or sell every 4 years if I own. That way, I can keep up with all the new software forever!
What we get from Tesla officially is absolutely NOTHING! The CEO makes conflicting statements, and there’s no real evidence or game plan to back up what they say. There’s zero transparency! If there was, we wouldn’t even be having these discussions-we would already know the truth and the plan moving forward. Rip the bandaid off.
@@FSDdriver We were promised that the car was capable of autonomous driving at the time it was purchased. Some paid as much at $15,000 for FSD. I for one am ready to join a class action suit to get my money back if Tesla cannot deliver.
@@FSDdriverAgain, another misinformation: "The competition only has 1 year software support"...
@ You make some good points! We shall see what happens!
Free FSD on next two Tesla purchases would be a fair trade maybe.
I would say free FSD on my account rather than per vehicle and the option of I own multiple Teslas to pick and choose what one I want FSD on at any time
I think Tesla should include FSD on ALL their vehicles to differentiate themselves from the rest of the market as many vehicles on the road today have the same level of Auto Pilot as the standard AP offering from Tesla or at most make it a $29.99/mo subscription. As far as making HW3 run end-to-end FSD, I think they will manage, just takes time to optimize it and downgrade several aspects of the new platform. Maybe slower framerates, lower object resolutions, slower response, etc.
Your not taking into account that they added HW4 to the Model Y without waiting for Juniper. If they can do that, then they can at least offer it as a paid upgrade to Model 3 owners.
You can only add HW4 to cars while IN the production line! Once a car is "produced," you would need to rip it all apart to "Upgrade" hardware.
Please understand it's easy to build a car while it's being produced. This is exactly why Tesla does not do Year End Models, they upgrade as they go adding things in the assembly line. They never go back to already produced cars and upgrade things later.
For example, I have one of the first 1,000 Model Y's produced. I'm missing a USB port in my glove compartment. In order for me to get that update, which came out a month later, Tesla would first need to rip my car's interior apart, run new wires to that location, add a new dashboard glove box that supports the USB port, then wire it together, while also pushing out a software upgrade so my car knows it now has that USB port and can use it to record century events, all at a loss of time and money to Tesla. That's just one small thing and that wire does not run through the FRAME of the car like the cameras do and other wire harnesses that need to be replaced.
You need to understand the difference between the words being "UPGRADED" and being "PRODUCED".
if its not keeping right, its a dog shit version? Why is it hogging the left lane?
I think when you turn the car onto the "auto beta speed" the car will favor the fast lane. I'm trying to do more testing on this with that setting on and off.
some of us are upside-down on our tesla (2022) leaving the whole ~fsd transfer~ not a viable option. This is a Lawsuit waiting to happen considering HW3 out numbers HW4 almost 3:1.
So I fortunately don't know if I could be part of a suit like that. I bought my M3 used and it had full FSD on it.
@@FSDdriver I'm not all about lawsuits anyhow,it's a culture I have very little respect for... but I'm quite sure there are plenty of folks just itching to sue SMH
If you want HW4 for free you should at least own FSD
I own FSD outright
I debunked robot taxis and why it does the random stuff you mentioned.
th-cam.com/video/Mdu205RrCDU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=_T3TJw9v9KKpTlCb
I saw this video last month its a good one!