Brilliant, detailed breakdown. Even though I don't actively write music anymore, watching these educational videos is still incredibly interesting and entertaining due to how well crafted they are. Thanks for providing such a wealth of knowledge for aspiring composers! I learned my species counterpoint from The Study of Counterpoint by Fux, but these videos would've been a big asset back then, and that book doesn't cover many of the more modern applications, even though a lot of the fundamentals still apply.
Why do you tell us which voice is the Cantus? Would there be any way of figuring it out if you didn’t tell us? If there wouldn’t be, then why is it something worth knowing? Maybe so we can try to start where you started and see if we can follow your path to the final product? Also, you afford the student more liberties (starting without tonic in lowest voice, e.g.) than most conventional approaches, but could you ever see an approach that allows for dissonance/resolution in two-voice first species? I’d be very interested to see how the rules for that would go!
one major goal of species counterpoint is to introduce dissonance treatment gradually. First species is designed to focus just on lines and not on dissonances.
Would you see any point in studying systematically the uses of dissonance/resolution in a 1-to-1 setting for two voices? Or is that something that comes easily enough once the species-type dissonances are handled?
I guess I’m thinking about a two part study one might undertake after studying the 5 species. But I guess that’s where this video series is going next. Maybe the kind of thing I’m thinking about will be treated in an upcoming lesson. Just to give a specific example, you see all the time in two part writing the interval of a seventh being resolved with both voices moving, the lower up a fourth and the upper down a second. It could be construed as three/four part, first species type Dissonance resolution, but without the extra voices. But that seems like a strange way to arrive at such a commonplace (in the “real world”) two part technique.
Species counterpoint is only the beginning. In lesson 11 I'll be leaving species behind for good, and we'll go off into (among other things) the kinds of music you are talking about.
Merci pour votre travail ! dans l'exemple en 2ème espèce, le contrepoint semble commencer par un accord du VI ème degré. Je croyais qu'il fallait débuter par un accord de tonique ( ou peut etre à la rigueur de dominante) Est ce parce que l'on est en mode mineur naturel?
C'est un bon exemple d'une règle qui n'est vraiment pas nécessaire. On doit finir sur la tonique, mais un début qui crée une peu de tension n'est pas une mauvaise chose. :-)
Don’t 5ths and 8ves approached by leaps in contrary motion (as well as similar/parallel motion to 5ths/8ves) also draw attention to a new harmony, which is (can be) also then bare? So why do you think the attention-drawing bare-ness sound cooler the one way and clumsier the other? Or maybe I’ve got off on the wrong foot?
Once you get up to four parts (or more) it is less noticeable if two inner parts peak together, and especially here, since the main focus is the line in half notes. And btw even in four parts there are occasions in longer pieces where all the parts can and even should peak together, usually to create a big climax.
![[TH] FS vs BME - VCT Ascension Pacific - Lower Bracket Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wnygqsR2Fig/mqdefault.jpg)
I had been waiting for this. Thank you!
Hello, Is it ok to have fourth in strong beat in combined species? For example, in the strong beat of measure three in combined species example.
Alan, you are the boss
Brilliant, detailed breakdown. Even though I don't actively write music anymore, watching these educational videos is still incredibly interesting and entertaining due to how well crafted they are. Thanks for providing such a wealth of knowledge for aspiring composers! I learned my species counterpoint from The Study of Counterpoint by Fux, but these videos would've been a big asset back then, and that book doesn't cover many of the more modern applications, even though a lot of the fundamentals still apply.
Glad you like it!
Why do you tell us which voice is the Cantus? Would there be any way of figuring it out if you didn’t tell us? If there wouldn’t be, then why is it something worth knowing? Maybe so we can try to start where you started and see if we can follow your path to the final product?
Also, you afford the student more liberties (starting without tonic in lowest voice, e.g.) than most conventional approaches, but could you ever see an approach that allows for dissonance/resolution in two-voice first species? I’d be very interested to see how the rules for that would go!
one major goal of species counterpoint is to introduce dissonance treatment gradually. First species is designed to focus just on lines and not on dissonances.
Would you see any point in studying systematically the uses of dissonance/resolution in a 1-to-1 setting for two voices? Or is that something that comes easily enough once the species-type dissonances are handled?
I think for that the species approach (at least as I do it) is OK as is.
I guess I’m thinking about a two part study one might undertake after studying the 5 species. But I guess that’s where this video series is going next. Maybe the kind of thing I’m thinking about will be treated in an upcoming lesson.
Just to give a specific example, you see all the time in two part writing the interval of a seventh being resolved with both voices moving, the lower up a fourth and the upper down a second. It could be construed as three/four part, first species type Dissonance resolution, but without the extra voices. But that seems like a strange way to arrive at such a commonplace (in the “real world”) two part technique.
Species counterpoint is only the beginning. In lesson 11 I'll be leaving species behind for good, and we'll go off into (among other things) the kinds of music you are talking about.
4:26 isn't there an unresolved perfect 4th in measure 4? (F - B flat between tenor and bass) Isn't that considered an error?
Merci pour votre travail ! dans l'exemple en 2ème espèce, le contrepoint semble commencer par un accord du VI ème degré. Je croyais qu'il fallait débuter par un accord de tonique ( ou peut etre à la rigueur de dominante) Est ce parce que l'on est en mode mineur naturel?
C'est un bon exemple d'une règle qui n'est vraiment pas nécessaire. On doit finir sur la tonique, mais un début qui crée une peu de tension n'est pas une mauvaise chose. :-)
Should we do 15 exercises all on one Cantus?
Don’t 5ths and 8ves approached by leaps in contrary motion (as well as similar/parallel motion to 5ths/8ves) also draw attention to a new harmony, which is (can be) also then bare? So why do you think the attention-drawing bare-ness sound cooler the one way and clumsier the other? Or maybe I’ve got off on the wrong foot?
Contrary motion at least keeps the outer parts independent as lines.
Your work is great but In the second species example, in measure 3, peaks seem to arrive at the same time between tenor an alto parts. I don't get it.
Once you get up to four parts (or more) it is less noticeable if two inner parts peak together, and especially here, since the main focus is the line in half notes. And btw even in four parts there are occasions in longer pieces where all the parts can and even should peak together, usually to create a big climax.
Maybe this is just the American in me talking, bur the British spelling of "maneuverability" sucks