Either that or they were roller coaster junkies from the get go and saw the flight attendant job as a way to get paid while occationally riding those peaks and drops ;)
That's what I was thinking. Probably makes their job easier. I suppose it could actually be for the thrill though. Not for me but I kinda understand it
True story... Way back in the day when I was flying FAR 135 Single Pilot night freight in Beech 18's, I lost my glideslope receiver and so couldn't make it into Shreveport, where the weather was right down to ILS minimums. So I jokingly asked approach control for a PAR into Barksdale AFB... And I'll be damned if they didn't hand be off to Barksdale, who talked me right down to the numbers. After which I enjoyed a couple cups of coffee with base security until the weather lifted, and then took off for Shreveport. No problem. I kid you not.
Generally, when you need the runway, the US military will let you use it. You might get to sit with security a while, but if you behave, they won't make it any worse than necessary based on current threat level.
As a former flight attendant, I can confirm that we indeed love turbulence and when the captain turns the seatbelt sign on. That means we can suspend the service and strap into our seats and chill.
@@talonpilot Absolutely. I love getting paid to do nothing.Infact, I laugh at people like you who think they need to slog and be professional to get paid. It's all fun and games with us Flight attendants. We get to travel the world, get layovers in 5 star hotels, AND get paid to do absolutely nothing but jerk eachother off while on duty. You should try it sometime. Maybe then you'll actually learn to have some fun in life instead of being the miserable sob you are🤣🤣🤣
I disagree. They bust their rears servicing some great people but plenty of arseholes as well. They are busy nonstop catering to us. Turbulence can be deadly. They need to be belted in. Being a Flight Attendant is definitely an unappreciated job. Thanks for illustrating that point. Cheers @talonpilot
@@talonpilot Your complete ignorance of Anything regarding the duties of airline cabin crewmembers, including their primary one, is absolutely pathetic.... and on full display here for all of us who have worked in the industry, and know the difference. Nice going, Bunky. 🙄🤣 (Retired airline pilot here... SoCal and Hawai'i)
As a retired ATC, we ask reason for change of destination mostly for what you spoke of earlier. Many pilots may be in an emergency situation but be reluctant to declare. We ask so as to allow the pilot to describe their situation and as they say it out loud they may reevaluate and realize that they should ask for help.
Why would they often be reluctant though? I guess if you're in a very small aircraft you don't really want to be saying "mayday mayday mayday" to put anyone sitting near you into panic.
@@JHattsypeople are just like that. No one wants to be _that guy._ especially if there's any feeling of guilt involved, no one wants to be the guy declaring an emergency because some fuck up was getting out of control. And it's not even necessarily them hiding things from others, but simply not wanting to admit to themselves that they are in a critical situation. People tend to latch on to whatever good news there is, ignore the bad, and try to resolve the situation in a way that looks like there was never a problem. Of course, by the time you're asking to land at a military base for fuel, it's probably a very bad situation.
@@ArmedVeteran1987 Yup. If you're not at fault for an emergency, an airline is just going to have you explain it and you're more than likely just fine. Its when an emergency was your fault that makes it harder to get in with the airlines, thus "trying to hide your mistakes".
I had a good friend who was Navy, he was stationed on an Aircraft carrier. Said one day they were 50 miles out to sea and his ranking officer told him to get on deck because there was a vintage fighter plane calling in an emergency for low fuel. Turned out it was an old WWII F4U Corsair pilot who was out flying, got lost and had to emergency land on the aircraft carrier.
That's actually pretty epic. How many civilian pilots would ever have the opportunity to make an emergency landing on a damn aircraft career. I assume it's rare. 😂😂 That said, not a good spot to be in over the sea regardless.
This is an interesting story for me because I was stationed at Osan Air Base in the late 50s as my first permanent Air Force duty station out of basic training. I was an staff announcer at the Armed Forces radio station at Osan. I had two stripes at an Airman Second class but I had a ball doing in the Air Force exactly what I had always wanted to do since high school; be a radio disc jockey. Many fond memories at Osan for this now 84 year old.
I once landed at an airbase, but not by any fault of mine. It was a favorite thing to do for those who had planes to go “plane fishing “ or camping along the many islands that dot the Texas coast above Corpus to Galveston. On one such trip, a buddy of mine had just returned From a place neither of us had fished together. I Bought a new sectional, plotted a course noting that there were two airports on adjacent islands. 1was marked as a civilian airport and the other a military airbase. Truthfully neither looked occupied so I landed at the 1 noted and colored as a civilian airport. I called Unicom with no answer. I flew a standard pattern announcing my intensions downwind base and final with no answer. Then just as I flared for landing a Cessna 210 in civilian paint flew over at 50’ and away he went. After being surrounded by Jeep’s and escorted to what appeared to be HQ I was accused of landing at the wrong airport. I rebutted saying “not by my chart!” at which time I was invited in to prove. I whipped out my brand new sectional and proceeded to “prove” my ability to read a map. Sure enough I was right. The mapmaker had transposed the 2 airports and the. charts had to be changed.
@@ant_mk3596 On the show Mayday, there have been a couple instances where the charts were inaccurate. I think lives were lost as a result. That's probably where you've heard of such an incident.
The controller for the emergency fuel story probably saved the pilot and passengers lives. The pilot wasn't giving any information and didn't sound stressed with only 20 minutes of fuel. Good thing the controller wasn't like the pilot, he might have been another statistic and story on airplane crash investigations! Great job Controller, that pilot owes you big time!!
It is sorta the nature of koreans to remain claim & to never push back on a elder (or higher authority in this case being a US/Korea base). This is why pilots (military) in korea where forced to learn english & US ways of communication after the korean war because they kept doing stuff like this and end up killing themselves (ie accept not being able to land, run out of fuel and crash). Sadly their culture is strong and sounds like this guy had no military training so didnt know to speak up for himself but knew basic english (alot south koreans learn english in school). Note: I'm not belittling koreans - these are facts and results learned and you can research it if you want to confirm. Honestly it is a nice idea for everyone to respect their elders, they just take it a bit too far causing deaths vs americans are not scared to speak up. Their language (if you learn it) directly enforces to never push back on an elder plus culture which is why korean military pilots are made to only use english when flying & they get extra ''speak up' mindset training as well. Hopefully this gives insight into why this pilot acted this way, it is a known issue, some things changed to prevent it, but the cilivian pilots in korea dont have their military training to address it.
@@JohnAdams-qc2ju Just like the Japanese, they take on responsibility even when it's not really their fault, like the Vice-Principal of the highschool that suffered so many deaths from the sinking of MV Sewol ferry, who committed suicide, and accept all responsibility for it, as he had organized the trip. We all know it was not his fault that the sinking happened, and that the fault rests with the ferry operators and the crew who abandoned their passengers after telling them to stay put, but to Vice-Principals Kang Min-kyu, that did not matter, for he was responsible for those students, so if they did not live, then neither could he.
@@StrokeMahEgo Exactly. The controller was at a military base, so those magic words really mattered. Until the pilot used those particular words, the controller's hands were tied. Once the words came out of the pilot's mouth, then the controller could step in and help. At one point, I can almost hear the controller thinking 'oh, please just say it already so I can get you some help'.
This happened at Scott AFB, IL, back in 1982. Farmer rented a plane to fly him, his wife, and son to St. Louis, to see a Cardinals game. It was his son's 12th birthday. A thunderstorm came up, and the pilot slapped the plane down on the only runway he saw. Oops. They got pulled off the plane, into the mud, at gunpoint. Once they figured out what happened, the Wing Commander authorized the kid and his family to be given the Royal Tour. All over the base, with gifts, hats, pictures, dinner at the Officer's Club..everything. I was in the base weather station, and got to meet them. The kid had a BLAST. Best birthday ever for him!
I got stuck at SAFB on my flight home from Germany because of a bad storm. We ran out of gas and electricity.... We were trapped on the runway, in the dark for like 7 hours.... Couldn't even use the restroom or stand up without an armed military escort
@@JACpotatos I was at Minot about 1990 or so, A Cessna landed on base. They did not even let that plane off the runway until the pilot was well and thoroughly detained. I don't know how long that guy was there before they let him go, or where his aircraft was towed to awaiting release. But He sure did not get a royal tour of base. I don't even know how or why he landed there. Presumably he was looking for Minot International. . .I said Minot, not LAX or JFK. Minot Intl, and MAFB have very similar runway configurations, very similar runway headings, might even be the same. They are both within a mile of the same US highway, one west of, one east of. and approx 13 miles apart. So it's possible, he just lined up and landed on the wrong airport. But no, he didn't get hats, and squadron patches.
I like how the controller in Korea was so professional. He started to realize there was a problem while juggling all the other responsibilities he had at the time. I like how he instinctively zeroed in on the real situation and then was truly professional and respectful instead of judgy as he got that plane safely on the ground.
I traveled there for work and found the Korean People, and those that served there, to be some of the most welcoming and understanding. While 'English' is supposed to be the recognized and only language for ATC all the world over, you just have to listen to recordings to hear controllers shifting in and out of their native languages to support those 'teammates' that are in the air.
@DinnerForkTongue It's not only about English, the pilot was scared but should've known to say anything that could've communicated they were in an emergency. It's nothing bad about the pilot, just they should teach proper ATC communication in flight schools
Kelsey, you mentioned that you did not know what happen after landing on an airbase because of an emergency. Well, you are directed to an isolated spot where you are greeted by armed soldiers, they will search thoroughly everyone onboard as well as the plan. They will verify the emergency conditions reported, and if everything clears they will escort you to where ever It is needed. I was in a somewhat similar situation (not in the US, in a DC-10 with one engine out, and during curfew), and we were at gun point until cleared. Awesome channel.
That sounds about right but I highly doubt that you were "at gunpoint" the entire time. Probably had armed guards and they were at ready but unless it was a warzone, it is just too exhausting to maintain the level of preparedness you claim for the whole time.
The HL1004 incident, I can just imagine the controller muttering under his breath “just say the E-word, just damn well say it”. The moment the pilot uttered the magic word all the doors opened.
Agreed, I was cringing also, first the 'roger' which is not an 'affirmative' pilot still refused to say "Yes" just muttering, 'yeah...' I handled a few emergencies in my time: they didn't call 'mayday' instead just told me they were "declaring and emergency" when they called up. They were 4 engines jets and sometimes one would be out so they were obligated to report the emergency even though they were in no real danger. I was a trainee and I still laugh at myself asking them how many souls on board (there was only one possible answer).
I bet the pilot wanted to land at Osan because the ramp fees at Incheon are probably ridiculous.
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You can almost hear the frustration in the controller's voice. "Buddy, as long as you don't *explicitly* say the magic word, I can't do anything for you." I mean, the controller couldn't put the word in the pilot's mouth more obviously if he flew up there and shoved a piece of paper down his throat, and he still doesn't get it. As our fearless channel host said at the beginning of the segment, the very first transmission should have been something like "Mayday, Mayday, Mayday! Osan Airbase, Hotel Lima One Zero Zero Fower Fuel Emergency. Request immediate landing at Osan or closest available runway. Position X, heading Y, flight level Z (descending/ascending), two souls on board, two-zero minutes of fuel remaining." And everything would have been crystal clear.
I once landed on a military base, as a passenger. There was an awful snowstorm in northern Norway at the time and since our plane was delayed we got in the middle of it, had we been on time we would've landed at our proper destination 30 mins before the storm struck. So I don't know if the pilot declared emergency but we did get to land on a military base and then got transport in civilian vehicles to a nearby waystop/motel/inn where we waited for a proper bus that could get us to the airport proper.
Kelsey, you do a wonderful job of explaining what's going on, especially for us nonpilots -- and you're great at humanizing the pilots and ATC. Thank you!
The psychology of the low fuel pilot is very interesting. He knows he is low on fuel so fuel is his goal and concern. Because of that he focuses on fuel, "I want to land and and get fuel". He forgets to communicate the critical nature of that need, the emergency, because he is so focused on the fuel. At the same time the controller is trying to figure it out because he has not been told it it an emergency, the pilot just expects the controller to "know by ESP". Very cool example of two separate thought lines not blending.
come on, how many pilots omit information out of embarrassment, happens all the time. like the clowns that dumped fuel all over los angelas. If it was a public airport he could land and no one would be the wiser, unfortunately for him he could only reach an afb
I guess there might be a cultural element involved that's particlarly important in some Asian cultures were losing face is to be avoided at all costs - and running critically low on fuel could be seen as such so the pilot was trying to avoid admiting the reason for his request to land at the airbase. I think the controller who obviously was American understood the situation so quickly and resolved it quickly and efficiently albeit not necessarily most culturually sensitive A local controller would have dealth with it differently.
If you’ve got 20 minutes of fuel in a small, single engine plane, you have zero fuel. Those planes have inaccurate gauges and it’s really a guess as to how long your fuel will last. You’re basing it on how much fuel you put in and how long you calculated it will last based on manufacturer’s specifications in gallons per hour of fuel burn at a given air speed. If your engine isn’t exact to manufacturer’s specs, your burn will be different, so your fuel remaining may be less. And if your flight takes longer than planned because winds were different than expected, you can be in real trouble if you didn’t plan for enough extra or your plane is unusually inefficient. So getting down to “20 minutes remaining” means you are pretty much completely empty and should be issuing at least a PAN PAN PAN!!
US VFR regs say minimum 30 minute reserve...but frankly if I'm planning a trip and I don't end up with a minimum 1hr reserve, then I consider it "critical fuel" and look for an enroute stop. I like to be very pessimistic when it comes to fuel remaining or time enroute...
Per FAA rules, the gauges are expected to report precisely only at low values. So, 20 minutes should actually be 20 minutes. Which anyways is already lower than the day VFR reserve. Not good.
@@davecrupel2817 What can I say, I'm a conservative pilot. As the saying goes, the most useless things to a pilot: altitude above you, runway behind you, and fuel left on the ground.
@@davecrupel2817 1 hour minimum is good insurance for unexpected conditions. Maybe your planned runway is unusable for some reason, or there's a thunderstorm parked right over it...
@@74gear 74 gear i need help with finding a video or a detailed guide online on learning all the controls of airline planes. Im majoring in aviation in college.
There is an even better one I have heard the audio for (Vasavition?) of a large airliner doing an entire repo flight VFR! It was JFK-LGA but who can claim to have flown any sizeable aircraft (can't remember exactly what it was) VFR the whole way
@@dasy2k1 It was a CRJ-200. The crew were rejected for IFR clearance because ATC did not have a flight plan on file and they were advised to re-file it. They then requested VFR clearance instead which caused utter confusion in ATC but was eventually granted because it is a perfectly valid request. Just, as you say, no-one ever actually flies planes of that size VFR out of a major airfield. Highly amusing.
PPR = Prior Permission Required. Sometimes it also applies to military aircraft going to a military field such as when there is an airshow happening in the near future. Reading the IFR Supplement will clue the pilot into whether or not it is required.
I was stationed at GTMO as a young enlisted Marine and we had a plane land one night that had no radio contact with the tower. Turned out to be a Naval Officer who was being stationed there and so he flew himself and his family. They all ended up handcuffed with a squad of Marines pointing guns at them while everyone investigated his story. Unfortunately his kids were pretty freaked out but the dad should have known better.
@@rustyjohnson9558 Settle down cowboy. You're on a civilian website with a civilian (and international,) audience. Using civilian vernacular is perfectly acceptable.
@@baronofclubs This seems like an emotional response to an unemotional question between myself and another party. There is a specific reason for my question that you are not privy to. So, who really needs to settle down and mind their own affairs?
When I was stationed at Grissom AFB IN, there was an incident with a small private aircraft. The pilot was heading to Indianapolis, but was extremely low on fuel, and fog had the visibility at near zero. He was still sixty miles from his destination. Our air traffic controller attempted to talk him down to our three mile long runway. He missed the runway, ran out of fuel, and crashed into our munitions storage building that was parallel to the runway. Pilot and son did not make it.
The first one reminds me of a story I heard, not sure if it happened. A German plane was in Germany asking why they couldn't speak German on the radio. A British pilot responded to them with "Because you lost the bloody war!"
I'm pretty sure that's a myth, little bits and pieces of German on frequency are common, so I don't think any pilot would react like that. Plus if you fly VFR, German can be used legally for the whole flight
And what about that British Airways pilot struggling with the right exit lane (or whatever is the right name. Sorry, I'm not a pilot) while in Hamburg Airport and was approached in a rude manner by a German ATC asking him if he had been at Hamburg before? The answer from the pilot was : "Yes, twice in 1944, but I didn't stop".
Reminds me of a story I heard from a brit, they said they were on a train and two women sitting across from them were talking in another language, and the person sitting next to the story teller says, "I can't stand that. If you're going to come to this country you should learn to speak the language." to which they pointed out, "we're in Wales, and they're speaking Welsh."
I'm just a passenger, and I love turbulence, especially if there's a fast drop, because it tells me we're actually flying as opposed to waiting in a long, boring corridor on the ground somewhere. I also love to look out of the window all the time, I think it's very special to see the earth and the clouds from above. I don't understand people who just watch movies because we can watch movies anytime on the ground.
Once you've flown a few times, most of the scenery becomes more or less the same. Large mountains are cool to see. Some cloud formations are nice to look at. Cities can be fun to watch during takeoff and landing, especially at night. But 20,000 feet up flying over unremarkable splotches of green or brown gets boring pretty quickly. Worse is flying over a solid cloud and having nothing to look at except endless white and the plane's shadow.
Thanks for making all these videos so interesting and accessible. I am not a pilot, nor would I consider myself an aviation enthusiast, but one of your videos popped up in my feed last week, and I've been devouring them since. I'm kind of a nervous flyer -- one of those "it's not natural for a 400-ton tube to be able to fly through the sky" people -- but seeing things from the perspective of the pilot, flight crew, ATC, etc has made me a lot less anxious about flying later this month. Thanks again Kelsey, you're the man!
You mentioned pilots trying to cover their mess up and it sure sounded like this pilot really really didn't want to say he only had 20 minutes of fuel because as you pointed out that's a humongous screw up. As a side note, in 1985 I was working at Osan as a government contractor. One day driving out of the base I saw a U2 land. It was beautiful. It looked like a glider landing.
Why worry about image + ego when you might soon crash or die, if you do not put your emotions aside + declare an emergency?! I thought that Was taught day one in flight training. Also you can harm other people or property!
@@concierge7574 Totally a cultural behavior. Visit ROK - beautiful country and you will never run out of things to do in Seoul. Trying to take American cultural behavior there and expecting it to be the same there...it was definitely an experience I won't forget! So different in ways I never expected!
Your explanations are soo good. You really make me smile hearing such great analysis of these situations. And it's also really great watching a guy doing something he's so obviously totally good at, and loving it. Thanks Kelsey !
Speaking of turbulence I always have my seatbelt buckled on commercial flights. Late 80s I was flying on Continental all was fine then the seat belt chime went off and the light lit up. We start getting a little bumpy no big deal when suddenly the plane just dropped, not a lot, but enough so unbuckled passengers came out of their seats and got slammed back down. One poor elderly lady ended up in the aisle. Always wear those seat belts folks.
ALways have, even if loosely. I've always had them on. I remember my flight to Europe (Frankfurt, or Amsterdam) plane dropped harshly then regained altitude. Crazy stuff.
I’m retired Air Force and the best story I have about civ ac landing at military bases is when the Goodyear blimp accidentally landed at Robins AFB in Georgia. He meant to land at Macon regional and it’s really close to the base. Happened back in 97 I think. I was a cop and we had to respond but was watching it happen…in really slow motion lol
Great episode! I find this is similar in an Emergency Room. Key words to indicate severity and nature of the emergency. If you're a patient (like me) with frequent "key term" symptoms, you learn to specify, "not outside of my baseline" to avoid unnecessary workups.
Yeah, that calmness was not helping him out in that situation. Letting him land in a military base is after all a huge risk without being able to vet the pilot or aircraft.
Seemed to me like he was too busy trying to translate. His proficiency with English is certainly nothing to brag about, so I'd completely understand if he was consumed with trying to find the right words. He likely wouldn't've found 'em if the ATC didn't pitch in.
Dude you are my inspiration. I’ve always had a passion to fly planes and I’ve now chosen my career ahead of me. You inspire me to become a pilot cannot thank you enough
Way back in the late 1990 a friend of mine and me were flying from an airfield close to St Etienne to Dijon (France) by two single seated gliders. My friend was way too fast and ended a couple of miles south of Dijon so low that he had to land. He landed on a French military airbase. When I asked the ATC of that airbase if I could land there too in order to join my friend, although I was high enough to make it to Dijon, the ATC approved. So I landed with a German glider on a French military airbase. People there were very kind, helped us to pull the gliders off the runway and we spent a nice afternoon with the ATC and military staff. No paperwork, just a glas or two of French Red Wine :)
I used to hang out in IRC with free software coders. They hated people asking if they could ask questions. "Don't ask to ask, just ask." The trouble there is the extra question is _noise._ It takes time away from other people with questions and more than that, it's a whole different kind of request for the coders to process. It's not about what they're thinking about, which is the code. It's not so bad once they're used to it, they'll just respond with "Yes," but it's still noise.
@@urbanistiq8009 I know, right? :) It's still around, presumably most used by the coders who can least handle the metaphorical noise of other services. For some, it's also nice that writing IRC client software is very straightforward.
I'm not a pilot...wanted to.. but life...well ..you know. Grandfather was a pilot. He was one of the last to fly in and out of Cuba in 59. He ferried planes to South America using runways in the jungles that some pilots would never dare , hitting tops of trees in many instances from short runways. He crashed his plane in Cedar Rapids Iowa during an ice storm , front gear not lowering due to ice build up. He cracked the propeller which I still have to this day. I am riveted to your videos. So much of it makes good sense. Things that should have been I guess. Too late for me now but I love the info . You explain it in such detail and so complete. Very good my friend. Keep it up....the blue side up.
Captain, appreciate all your videos I have watched so far. Know I am unable to fly but appreciate your breakdown of flights and having it make sense. Thank you for your time.💪🇺🇲
I’ve watches all of the Air Safety Institute videos about GA incidents that the pilots didn’t survive and most of them were people who were too embarrassed to declare an emergency.
@@eriknervik9003 wild, I thought of this exact incident. He was too embarrassed/worried to request landing at a military field until it was inevitable he would run out of fuel and crash. The tragedy is he could have easily landed at Air Base but instead lost his life.
I don't understand that. It's Darwinian. You have to remain level headed + deal with it. Everybody makes mistakes + if you learn from them, there's little to no shame, + then you're an improved pilot. Ego or being overly protective of one's image gets in the way sometimes with unfortunate + 100% preventable results. Ask for help STAT!
If you're a pilot in an emergency situation, always remember that you're the pilot in command. In command. Your job is to get your plane and passengers back onto the ground safely, it all possible. You control the aircraft inputs, not ATC or the FAA.
I served one year in Korea. I've been to both Osan and Pyeongtaek. The only U-2 I ever saw in 23 years of Army service was taking off from Pyeongtaek Air base. I was going into a Mexican Restaurant just off base. It wasn't like American Mexican food but it was close enough. The U2 was the high light of that trip.
When I was at Osan AB in the mid 90's, the U-2's were on 12's every day. We saw them every single day, twice a day. Our barracks (Airmen) faced the runway so we never got any sleep. All aircraft except A-10's would use the afterburners upon take off because it is one of the few areas you are allowed to. I snuck some badass photos of U-2's taking off while I was in the Runway Standby Unit about 100 feet from the runway edge. Too cool and very illegal! The 90's kicked ass.
I was at Rhein-Main airport in 1965 waiting with a group of GIs for our flight to rotate back to the US. As we were waiting on the apron, a U-2 took off and one of the guys took a couple of pictures with his camera. An AP noticed this, ran over to the guy, tore the camera out of his hands, opened the camera, pulled the exposed film out of the camera, and threw it on the ground.
As a frequent flying passenger, I love turbulence! Especially the turbulence that makes others gasp is the best! Don't want to see people tossed around, but moderate chop / moderate turbulence is fun.... for me. I think FAs love it because everyone has to sit, stay seated and they can get a break.
I once crossed the Atlantic Ocean on a cruise ship Southampton to NCY. QE II to be exact. For the first two thirds of the trip we encountered massive headwinds (9knots) and huge waves which were from a hurricane on the east coast of the USA. The ship has over 290m (970ft) of length. But it still let the horizon go up and down considerably. It was quite empty in the restaurant. And you were rolled around in your bed. But it was fun! And the captain explained he had to reduce speed by two knots in order to make passengers (and crew!) feel better. But he also remarked that he knew that some passengers were on the trip just because of the weather and were enjoying it. He was right on the money! If I had wanted a smooth ride I could have taken a plane.
when in turbulence and the plane goes down, jump up ;) some sort of fake zero G....did that on a flight back from China once...FAs where not too amused about me jumping around
That makes perfect sense now! It could be edited to add that, + there's a plethora of repetition in this interesting video. Kelsey is superb at explaining things. Born to fly and to teach!
Had a conversation with a bloke about ten years or so ago. He said he was on a light plane at night somewhere in Australia. The plane was experiencing engine problems and the pilot declared an emergency and asked if anyone could direct them to the the closest landing strip possibly expecting vectors to a bush strip. Someone came on the radio and started giving the pilot directions after some time he was told the runway should be in front of him and then a series of lights lit up on the ground. He was instructed to land and continue off the end of the runway, at the end was a ramp going down. They stopped in an underground hanger, armed soldiers directed them to some sort of waiting room. Sometime later a soldier came in and informed them that the plane was repaired and they must leave. He has no idea where it was or what it was. Obviously I wasn’t there so I can’t confirm the story but the bloke worked for defence and i see no reason to doubt his word.
I remember that incident while I was stationed at Camp Humphreys, Pyeongtaek, Desiderio AAF. We had to hold for 20 minutes for that aircraft. Single long airfield for the US Army Aviation. Thanks for sharing!
The low fuel part reminds me of a story my old boss told me from back in the day when he worked for Flying Tigers (a little before my time). There was a captain with the nickname of "Fumes Flannigan" that was notorious for cutting fuel in order to take on more cargo. This caused a low fuel emergency (and cutting in line) coming into Japan on more than one occasion. They eventually caught on and had a talk with Flying Tigers to inform them that if it happened again, the plane would go in the drink. I was just a lowly load master, so can't verify the reality of this actually happening, but it made for a good story at least.
Always believed Flying Tigers Airline was the real CIA airline in Vietnam. Made real sense if you consider they flew in under fire. Flew them into Saigon from the states, but we're held 3 hours in Yakota, Japan while the runway was being repaired after a shelling at Saigon. (Never could spell that airport). Great greeting there! Never will forget being scared sh,*tless.
The Cessna pilots voice at 18:42 sounds so defeated. The guy probably thought he was about to crash and sounded resigned to his fate. No yelling or pleading, just “ohh…I’m fuel shortage”. He be probably was resigned because he was scared but also extremely ashamed he messed up so badly to be in that situation. Glad ATC was able to read between the lines and coax mayday out of him!
A student pilot from the flying club where I learned to fly was on a solo flight when I noticed that despite careful flight planning he was heading for a thunderstorm so ended up diverting to a nearby military airbase in England only to be received by a bunch of soldiers pointing the buisness end of their rifles at him and he ended up getting arrested. Turned out this was during a military execise and the folks on the airbase thought he was part of the exercise. Eventually the flying club which was aware of the diversion called and yet again the folks on the airbase thought that was all part of the exercise. It took a little while to convince them to release the poor student pilot - who had done everything strictly by the book. So yes, maybe military airbases are not the preferred choice ;-)
As a retired Air Force Crew Chief, landing during an exercise is the worst possible time. When I was in an evaluator during exercises, and something unplanned happened, I would inform the proper authorities, this is not part of the exercise, so handle it properly.
One summer while I was working a job delivering pizza, I was set up as the "stooge" for a training exercise at my local air force base. Some of us got to use "I was just doing my job" as an excuse, and some didn't. Edit: I was the one that didn't.
It also seems like the controller needed the formality of dealing with an emergency aircraft. He probably would've been in trouble if he had just agreed to let the plane go to Osan, had it NOT been an emergency. But now that the formality of a declared emergency has been established the controller has covered his behind, can help the pilot land safely anywhere, and now it's up to the pilot to explain and cover his (the pilot's) rear.
I did that once many years ago. I was met by a jeep full of AP's and it took a few hours to square it away. I was in a piper tri-pacer on VFR and the weather had quickly closed down. Luckily, My Dad, who was an AF Pilot, was with me. I had just gotten my license, and this was one of my first Flights. I will never forget this flight and the color of my dad's face when we got to the command post. We both got ragged on by all the personnel that could get to us. After we got the plane cleared and back home, He did tell me I had done a fair job getting the tri-pacer down in the weather. Weather reporting has come a long way since we made that flight.
A little more info the Thai food call: The pilot's referencing PWM, Portland Jetport, and KAUG, Augusta State Airport, in Maine. Augusta airport is actually a tiny little airport with a single restaurant called Sweet Chili Thai (it's actually listed on the airport's official website), and while Augusta is the capital, it's actually rather small, too. I'm a native and find it hard to get good, non-chain restaurant food there. Portland is the biggest city in the state by far, and there's dozens, maybe hundreds of awesome restaurants in driving distance from PWM. In other words, the pilot made the right call... if they don't like Thai.
My wife, a middle aged motherly woman was a passenger on a flight that got into heavy turbulence and the woman sitting next to her started to panic, my wife held her hand and calmed her down, then there was more turbulence and a junior member of the cabin crew had a panic attack and asked my wife to hold her hand as she was afraid. She sat on the floor next to my wife who was able to calm her down. She was ok when the turbulence was over.
When I was stationed at the submarine base at Bangor WA in the late 80's or early 90's, a Cessna flying at night landed on the road at our nuclear weapons storage area, thinking it was the local airport. They never stated how the security forces reacted, only that the pilot was as so afraid, he never returned for the plane
Aww, Kelsie didn't include the best part of the first clip. The controller making fun of Spirit Air to the other plane in Spanish, and then Spirit Air coming back in Fluent Spanish to put him down lol.
A big issue for Asian pilots has been the cultural deference shown to authority figures. You can tell the pilot feels uncomfortable telling ATC what he needs, great job by ATC to recognize there was more going on. He may have prevented a serious accident by pushing through the communication issues and getting a full picture of the situation.
I don’t think it is culturally related. The pilot wasn’t expecting a no when he said for fuel. Of course, he should declared it. That particular problem “for Asian pilots” is more have to do with Korean culture, which was true after a few Korean airlines crash and poor CRM in Taiwanese China Airline. But it is not a problem in Japan or in Mainland China, in addition, that problem had been fixed for some 10 years now. No recent problem from Korean Airlines or China Airlines, recent crashes involving Asian pilots are either incompetence/tired pilots in Asiana Airlines or due to 737 Max.
I'm familiar with the story. The plane was not supposed to be in that part of Korea, he was supposed to be doing a job near the southern side but for whatever reason got quite lost. There were other airports he could have landed in to get his bearings - Daejeon, but he kept flying the wrong direction hoping he could fix his mistake and only finally agreed to land at the nearest airport when he got his emergency fuel alert. "Protecting reputation" is big in the Korean culture. His priority was to not let anyone find out he'd screwed up, and in the process he screwed up even more. If he'd landed in Daejeon he could have fueled up, asked for directions, and been on his way. Instead, the AFB had to truck in fuel (as they don't carry fuel for his plane) and by the time that happened, the pilot had been fired, he'd been booted out of the base, and a different pilot flew it back home.
There may be a cultural element, but I can imagine a lot private pilots from anywhere in the world would be seriously nervous and reluctant to contact a big military base even if they did have an issue, especially if that issue was one of their own making.
@@anononomous he wasn't a private pilot. It might have been a tiny plane but he was still flying on a commercial license for commercial reasons. He just didn't want his company to find out he was very very off course.
FYI (not included in the clip): after the Spanish ATC asked other pilots what weather they could see, another Spanish pilot replies saying something along the lines of “I can see some clouds but it doesn’t look so bad”. Immediately after, the Spirit pilot responds in *FLUENT SPANISH* “well you might see something different to what we can see!” The rest of the video is the pilot speaking either in Spanish or English.
Retired center controller here (US). Never heard "Charlie Bravo" much, and always considered it slang. "Weather" was the accepted standard. That one point you said that controllers have satellite weather that is frequently more up-to-date than your onboard radar. Approach controllers have some real time capability, but center controllers are on nexrad and will run frequently minutes behind. I'm always amazed at The cooperative effort between pilots and controllers to get everyone on the same page when it comes to getting through weather. Your description of the Miami controllers is typical of what I would see in North Florida. Just out of efficiency controllers would direct you to an area that they believe to be "softer", and counted on updates from pilots as to how that method was working. Storms, and holes constantly move and change and the teamwork is critical. When riding jump seat the pilot universally were appreciative of the skills of Florida controllers when it came to thunderstorms. The old joke was that when we would get a 50 mi in trail restriction for New York airports, we would say "New York has a cloud". One more: you cited that it was "ok" for the pilot to unilaterally take a weather deviation as long as he told the controller about it. In fact that is a usage of the pilots "emergency authority" to do what it takes to keep his plane safe. From a regulatory standpoint, he must declare that he is doing so on an emergency basis. That permits the controller to relax the rules, and spend his time keeping traffic away from the emergency aircraft. Some of these rules might have changed since I retired about 10 years ago, but I believe they are essentially the same.
Charles, if you read a METAR or TAF the abbreviation for Cumulonimbus is CB. I have never heard it used in the US, we always say buildup or weather, but CB is understandable. Until tonight I probably wouldn't have realized what they were saying with Charlie Bravo.
To be clear, at least at my tower and radar facility I work, our weather radar ONLY depicts precipitation intensity, not clouds. So it’s not uncommon for pilot to ask for deviations for build-ups while our screen is completely clear, because those build-ups don’t have any precip in them. My understanding is that’s the standard system-wide, at least here in the States.
Thanks for helping us understand w hat ATC has to deal with. I think we are all so used to seeing the Doppler weather radar reports on our local TV news reports, that we just assume that your equipment is at least as good, if not better at seeing and helping you understand the weather as it’s changing throughout the day.
@@soomi3541 Those Doppler reports are exactly what the ATC sees. The news doesn't show you the big puffy things, because those have almost no mass or density (remember that fog is literally just a cloud on the ground), they show you storm cells.
The first one happened in Costa Rica. IMPOSSIBLE to not recognise that controller’s voice. Also, as a flight attendant I can say it’s true. I LOVE turbulence. Not just because if they tell you to sit is an extra break, but I find it fun. Specially at the crew rest compartment. Not much different than riding a bus down a bumpy road
Sailplane pilots like turbulence too, it usually means lift is available. Also saw a little piper cub land at MacDill back in the 90's. Just made it in front of a huge thunderstorm. By the time he caught the "follow me" truck it was a windy downpour. I saw the same plane take off about an hour later after the storm had passed. Their lucky day I guess.
I am in Huntsville AL and we have had a few Civilians mistake Redstone AAF for KHSV, one afternoon while on the flightline at Redstone a lone Cessna 182 landed and taxied up to the Ramp. The MP's were rushing to the plane and directed the confused and elderly man to get on the ground. The Pilot was speaking to KHSV tower thinking he was on final to 18R, he was in fact on final and landed at Redstone with the same heading. I felt very bad for the man. HSV tower, in my opinion should have noticed he was out of position, but the pilot should also have known where he was, it was clear blue and 22 that day.
Actually, "sitting there eating a sandwich" is probably the one circumstance where the controller isn't ready to hear your request. He's got to swallow the bite he's working on and have a swig of his beverage before he can respond.
"Mayday" has ruined many a an ATC's third sandwich of the shift (only 5 more to go). And the cleaners don't like seeing them in the bin, just in case there's a follow-up event elsewhere....
Only time ever acceptable to eat at work station is when working alone on nightshift and don't have relief. Food not allowed around sensitive (critical) electronic equipment, not to mention whomever relieves you from your station doesn't want to see your sandwich crumbs all over their workplace. They might even require you to clean up a mess or garbage before taking over. Allowed to keep a covered drink on the floor under the bench.
So you need to swallow bite of food before you can hear? Pilot stating he has a request of ATC means before you can even know what he wants to ask, you have to respond. If you are going to respond, might as well respond with the answer to the question, than need to respond twice.
I’m guessing that ATC was military? What a true professional, calm, cool, and collected. You can hear the urgency in his voice once he realized the gravity of the situation, but he didn’t sound panicked, he sounded simply concerned.
military is different to civilian in that people join the military because they want to be heroes. they want shit to go wrong so they can save the day. they train for it everyday. and when you train for something everyday and it never happens that can be really frustrating. so when it does happen, you are more than prepared and willing to do the thing you have been practicing for years. not a dig at anyone but this is the truth. when military people die and everyone says what a dedicated person that guy was, he was doing it for his country blah blah, thats only half the truth. the first reason he was doing was for himself. he wanted adventure, he wanted to be a badass. this is known by every soldier but no one says it publicly. some people just want to be heros. works out good for everyone involved, most of the time :)
@@DevinDTV it seems obvious to you and me (possibly because we are male) but to some it is not obvious. there are a lot of clueless people walking around sharing there opinions loudly.
My dad was a hot balloon pilot for 20+ years. He once flew over a military base and was instructed to leave the area, which is impossible as the balloons are controlled by wind. They told him to land immediately and packed up his balloon for him. They later tried to find him $5000 for the commotion but he never paid.
I was ballooning once, when we started drifting towards a military site. It's a "DO NOT ENTER, YOU WILL BE SHOT" kind of site. The pilot had flown around other military bases before, and believed that if we drifted over the border "a little, it'll be fine". After a minute of trying to tell him it wouldn't "be fine", my husband pointed out the vehicles that suddenly appeared over the hill, just then a very quiet, very black helicopter just seemed to appear. We had a very hard landing, right up along the fence, where there's posted every 20 or so feet "NO Trespassing. Use of DEADLY FORCE AUTHORIZED"
Hey Kelsey, I discovered your channel yesterday and just love it! I am an Instrument Rated, Single Engine Land, Private Pilot with about 1,500 hours and find your videos educational, as well as very entertaining. On this one I had to go back and watch with glee your facial expression when you mimicked the old timer, salty pilot, "...hand fly the whole flight." I look forward to enjoying many more of your videos! Thanks!
When a base is scheduled for a organizational readiness inspection, the inspectors frequently arrive unannounced on an aircraft, that declared an emergency and need to land ASAP. Upon landing, the inspectors all jump out and penetrate as many facilities as possible. That is always the beginning of a few very long days.
Maybe dumb question, but... how has nobody been shot doing this? Inspector or not, base security probably doesn't take kindly to unannounced people taking off sprinting through an active military base.
@@perciusmandate There is a story about General Curtis LeMay riding in a staff car that crossed the red line on the flight line without permission where nuclear bombers were parked. A guard shot at the car and it stopped. The General got out and demoted the guard on the spot. The guard told the General that he was doing what he was suppose to do. General Lemay said that he wasn't demoting him for shooting at him. He was demoted because he missed.
@@KnightandDay33 No it's not. I was in the AF stationed at Kadena AB on Okinawa, and exercises were pretty frequent. They would usually start on a weekend, wearing MOPP gear (flak vest, chemical shirt/pants, helmet with utility belt and gas mask) over normal uniform. 12+hour work days, doing whatever job you have versus "playing" in exercise, and even at the end of your shift if you are caught in an alarm while going to your car, you still have to MOPP up. The only good thing was hearing INDEX on the loudspeakers on Friday afternoon which announced the end of the exercise.
@@perciusmandate that’s the whole idea of the ORI. The job of the inspectors is to poke holes in the security system of the base. Their job is exactly to do that. Because they are replicating what an enemy might do under the guise of a fake emergency.
When I was a teen, I was up in the ATC cab visiting my dad. The only traffic was several minutes out while there was a ground emergency at the same time. We were stationed at Cannon AFB in Clovis NM. One of the F111s had a fuel check valve that didn’t close when fuels disconnected, and fuel was draining back out. As we were watching fire respond, I looked up and saw a Cessna Golden Eagle about a mile or so out. I (innocently) asked about the plane. My dad’s crew got busy with the light gun, on guard, and activating the primary crash net. The plane landed a few minutes ahead of the 2 F4s. He was greeted by armed AIr Police pointing M16s at him while they surrounded him. His excuse was that his wife was in severe pain from a broken arm that was in a cast. The final determination was that he thought he was landing in Lubbock TX and couldn’t figure out why no one was answering him. His confusion was compounded the the unusual A/C on the ramp. Nothing looks like a parked F111.
19:15 I like that once the controller confirms the emergency fuel situation, he doesn't drag it on any longer by asking the pilot to declare a mayday or formally declare an emergency. He immediately starts to coordinate how to get the plane on the ground and doesn't waste any time.
It depends, if my request is short sweet and standard I will check in and ask in the same transmission. Otherwise I’ll check in with “callsign, with request” to make sure I have good radio contact and didn’t get stepped on and waste a lot of breath. I agree with you, the guy wanting to land at Osan could very easily have gotten his point across easier!
Hey Kelsey, We flew into Osan in 1980 without a PPR , we were a USMC CH53D helicopter and were surrounded by Airforce vehicles with mounted machine guns along with MP pointing M16 rifles at us, they did allow us to shut down the aircraft prior to putting us face down on the tarmac. It all worked out bit it was no joke.
That low fuel emergency was frustrating to watch. You would have saved so much time if you just said "emergency fuel" or really any sentence with "emergency" in it. Yet the dude was beating around the bush for several minutes.
@@mshighaltitude As far as I know, he was avoiding making a big deal out of it for fear of lost reputation, a thing very important in Korean culture. Unfortunately he lost all the reputation anyway, as well as his job right then and there.
Kelsey going to be going round and round and round the next few flights when the ATC hears about how the tower staff are eating sandwiches and talking on their phones
I'm Flight Attendant and I like getting seated, fasten my seat belts and enjoy the view of the passengers faces. Those same passengers that laugh on you when you go check the cabin asking them to put their bags under the seats and to fasten their seat belts and so on
Absolutely...I was a flt attendant some 20 years ago and I loved turbulence because there was no service during that time. On a chartered flight, we had multiple services throughout the flight, so to not do one of those services was great..because Chartered flights try to work flt attendants all the time. On an int'l flt, its a nice repose.
“PPR number” = Prior Permission Request (number). Used to land at U.S. Military bases for conducting business and/or training there. They don’t hand out PPR numbers to just any GA flight.
The big civilian airport west of Miami International also uses PPRN. That airport was exclusively for air carrier type aircraft to practice touch & gos or approaches without interfering with KMIA.
Depends on the base. Dover AFB has a civil ramp operated by the state inside the perimeter and will happily take your landing fee arrange a PPR for any old reason. Which seems weird until you realize it's the only place to land jet aircraft for a pretty good distance and NASCAR teams love business jets.
@@EyeMWing well yeah, there are many military bases now that share a civilian ramp. They are dual use airfields. MCAS Yuma is shared and also known as “Yuma International.”
I find it very important to speak more than one language. My mother tongue is German, but I also speak English (obviously, because it's the universal language) Italian and French. It's not just because I like languages, I find it insanely gratifying to being able to speak to people in their mother tongue. It cuts language barriers in half and really bridges some gaps. And the best thing is: Everyone can learn languages. You just need to be determined to do so.
This is actually largely necessary for most of the jobs in the EU - knowing at least 3 languages: your national one, English (obviously), and a secondary one to a lesser extent than English (not even reallly counting English as secondary at this point, you know it or you're out, period). Anything outside of that is usually beneficial, but not mandatory. For most jobs, 2 languages (native and English at at least C2 level) is a mandatory requirement. I myself speak Polish, English, French (not as much as I'd like though, still working on it) and a bit of German. And I agree - it's very important. In Europe, it's crucial. Internationally, English will suffice. In the US, it doesn't account for as much - knowing English itself will usually see you through, knowing English and one other language well will definitely see you through. There is just not that much need to learn languages, if your northern border is with an English-speaking country as well, and your southern border with a Spanish-speaking country, which plenty of people speak in in your country as well. Europe simply has a larger amount of countries to deal with, so there is more demand for specific languages. Not so much in the US. However, learning languages if both fun, useful, and gives you an additional way to see the world in. Not many things are as beneficial.
You gave a huge shout out to MIA for getting you around weather. I have to second that in a big way. I watched them get planes into MIA around hurricane Ian today as it was making landfall near Ft. Meyer, which is not that far away, and it looked like they were also taking diverts from FLL as well. They had them stacked pretty tight (think ATL) for a while, but they were getting the job done.
I remember flying from Santa Barbara to Long Beach and feeling kind of intimidated with all the radio traffic. I always stayed in my corridor and prayed please god don't let me mess up. This was back in early 70s.
Hi Kelsey, Just wanna post it out here, you're doing an amazing job with your videos. As I was growing up I always wanted to be an pilot (comercial pilot) but not always the dreams come true, life took me in another direction, it's just how it is. But watching your videos the flame inside of me is beginning to burn again, not tô become a comercial pilot, but just to learn to fly, and fly solo in a plane, to kinda fulfill this dream I had since a was a little kid. You seem to love what you do (fly and make videos about aviation)... And this is amazing (I love my work also, don't get me wrong here). Thanks for all the teachings and cool Infos about aviation. Keep up the good work, you're inspiring people!! Greetings from Brazil and Germany.
I've trained for 9-1-1 and a lot of what we practiced is exactly what the ATC in the second part had to do - getting the caller to actual *say* what is going on by asking a lot small, step-by-step questions. Very similar skill sets, I suspect.
Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge. I grew up flying in them. I do have a fear of heights but never had issues with being on a plane or looking out of one.
My flight instructor specifically told me to say "identify and request". Glad to hear other pilots say that it's ok to state the actual request along with it.
one of my jobs involves radio communications, and some of the trainers I've seen teaching radio communication irritate the heck out of me because they teach bad habits. in radio communication, it's important to get to the point, and then get off the air in case other people need to communicate. also, even if you aren't talking in code, keywords, like "Bravo Charlie" are important because they let you transmit a lot of information with just a couple words.
Same, I did 10 months conscript training as a radio specialist in a mortar platoon, then 6 years as a platoon radio operator volounteer in the national defence militia. In both of those roles, short, precise and consistant transmissions are essential as most transmissions concern sitreps, tactical orders, medevac requests, listening for map references to manually update the sitmap or reciving indirect fire mission data when data transmissions isn't coming through to the ballistics computer.
Agree about being concise but FEMA and DHS frown on radio codes as they are different in every industry and department and have led to many failed emergency responses
A pilot friend of mine, while in the Air Force picked up languages easily. The US Embassy recruited him and he flew for them for years. Near the end of his life, he told me he spoke 9 languages fluently and was able to make conversation in 27 languages. I was amazed how much knowledge he had accumulated.
that’s awesome. I’m sort of the same, except I only speak 1 language, but I only hang out with dumb guys, so I just lie about stuff like knowing a ton of languages and they have no idea I’m tricking them it’s awesome haha
I’m one of the weirdo’s that loves turbulence, more the reactions of people around me than the actual turbulence. BUT for some reason I do enjoy as a passenger going through turbulence.
I'm not a fan of turbulence, but I do find it funny when passengers hold their breath due to turbulence or a go-around, when they were so brave when boarding the plane. And I find it funny how everyone queues up to board the plane even before it's open for boarding. Evenyone wants to get in there ASAP, even though all the seats have been pre-assigned and you're not gonna depart earlier than the other pasengers. And I'm like: _"you put all this efford into sitting down in this 373 with no leg room ASAP, and now you're complaining about turbulence?"_
I wouldn't mind it so much if it didn't make me hurl. One time decending into SFO, it was roller-coaster turbulent. I was focusing my eyes outside on the horizon to avoid the inevitable, when the flight attendant came on the PA and told everyone where the bags were. It took everything in me to avoid throwing up. Thankfully, I made it down without doing so.
Kelsey, you mentioned the controllers being on "land lines" a lot of the time. Controllers have dedicated "land lines" to other facilities such as Air Traffic Control centers, airports etc. They just punch a button at their position, and it rings the facility, then when someone answers the controller talks to them on his headset.
I'm guessing the pilots in the last video were regulars in the area, and it seems to me the controller would ask the reason for the reroute more to know if it is something ATC needs to be aware of; so the pilots saying it was because of the dining options, meant that they just wanted to change their route for personal reasons, and the ATC didn't need to worry about hazards.
This lesson applies to life in general as well. Ploughing on alone because you want to fix the problem yourself often leads to disaster. Equally, cultivating an environment in which this is seen as the preferred option ("Don't bring me problems, bring me solutions!" etc.) is dangerous.
I was once on a 6hr night flight that spent at least half its time flying in rough turbulence. Personally I'm okay with turbulence, but for me it was one heck of an experience flying in a lightning storm (my plane was struck by lightning a few times). The reason was because sitting on my left side was a lady that was freaking out about the rough flight, on the other was a retired hurricane hunter who had a lot of experience flying into hurricanes. The hurricane Hunter was trying his best to help calm the woman, but his stoic attitude (him enjoying the turbulence) and his attempt to convince the woman that the turbulence wasn't that bad by telling her about all the times he nearly died flying into hurricanes. It was by far one of the most surreal things I ever saw.
In order to reduce the confusion of people speaking different languages, we got some new regulations a while back over here in Norway prohibiting the use of any other language than English on the air net. With this, the Norwegian radiotelephony terminology was removed. Of course, some people still like speaking Norwegian over the air net, but all standard RTF is in English. I rarely hear people speak Norwegian for standard RTF calls, so Norwegian is used more for general talk or smalltalk etc.
That rule was actually put in place by Eurocontrol at all international airports in Europe after the crash at Paris Charles de Gaulle airport in 2000, when the ATC issued a conditional clearance to a British crew, who weren't fully able to understand which aircraft the condition was relating to, and entered an active runway at an intersection after an arriving aircraft, which they mistook for the aircraft the condition was related to, passed that intersection. The problem was that the arriving traffic had already vacated at that point and there was a French MD-83 at the threshold, which was the actual aircraft the condition was related to, already rolling after being cleared for take off in French, so because of the mixing of languages by ATC the Brits had no idea that the MD-83 was rolling and entered the runway and proceeded to collide with the said MD-83 killing the co-pilot of the British plane. After that the only acceptable phraseology around Europe is the English one from the 'controllers bible' which is the doc. 4444.
@@Henoik Maybe around the world, but as far as I know, in Europe it's mandatory for every country that is a member of Eurocontrol, which is pretty much every country.
@@axel995r I'm speaking about Europe as well. Even though EASA forces each country to use standardized English RTF, this is still an issue in both the Netherlands, France, Spain, Poland, and pretty much all the Baltic countries.
I feel like this goes without saying, the pilot is ultimately responsible for the plane crew and passengers. They can make any decicion needed to keep them safe if required.
Okay, so I got nothing to do with planes, flew just two times in my entire life and never knew I had any interest into how piloting an aircraft works and what it is like to be a pilot. And now I'm sitting here, having just watched over three hours of your videos and there is no end in sight. I'm even thinking about putting my HOTAS (got it for Elite Dangerous) to use and try out Microsoft Flight Simulator. Your channel is AMAZING! Honestly I was under the impression you pilots were a bunch of guys having their noses up in the wind like some doctors while being not much more than glorified bus drivers. Today that changed drastically because of you giving me an impression of how complex your job really is and seeming to be a very grounded (pun intended) and straight up guy who is not afraid to tell us about his mistakes, while one can still see that you indeed are a professiional. I like that really much. I'm happy I stumbled upon your channel. And yes, I do realize I may have to work on my prejudices. :p Keep up the good work! Best regards from germany! :)
Flight Attendant: "I love turbulence!" - saying "I love to sit and buckle up and nobody asking us to come by for drinks!" - maybe?
I guess that is possible
Agreed no drink service today equal no unruly drunk people to deal with
Either that or they were roller coaster junkies from the get go and saw the flight attendant job as a way to get paid while occationally riding those peaks and drops ;)
I think that if turbulence doesn't scares you, then the up and down movement can give ladys some tingling feeling you know where 😅
That's what I was thinking. Probably makes their job easier. I suppose it could actually be for the thrill though. Not for me but I kinda understand it
True story... Way back in the day when I was flying FAR 135 Single Pilot night freight in Beech 18's, I lost my glideslope receiver and so couldn't make it into Shreveport, where the weather was right down to ILS minimums. So I jokingly asked approach control for a PAR into Barksdale AFB... And I'll be damned if they didn't hand be off to Barksdale, who talked me right down to the numbers. After which I enjoyed a couple cups of coffee with base security until the weather lifted, and then took off for Shreveport. No problem. I kid you not.
Pretty typical as to US Air Force base operations. They have procedures and they’re very nice.
Prior Permission Required - PPR
Worked a couple of those tho they were treated as precautionary events and not emergencies.
Whatever it takes to be safe!
We Cajuns be friendly folk, sha.
Besides, you did ask politely.
Generally, when you need the runway, the US military will let you use it.
You might get to sit with security a while, but if you behave, they won't make it any worse than necessary based on current threat level.
As a former flight attendant, I can confirm that we indeed love turbulence and when the captain turns the seatbelt sign on. That means we can suspend the service and strap into our seats and chill.
Pure laziness and unprofessionalism. Crap like this is why no one takes you serious…you just want to get paid for doing nothing.
@@talonpilot Absolutely. I love getting paid to do nothing.Infact, I laugh at people like you who think they need to slog and be professional to get paid. It's all fun and games with us Flight attendants. We get to travel the world, get layovers in 5 star hotels, AND get paid to do absolutely nothing but jerk eachother off while on duty. You should try it sometime. Maybe then you'll actually learn to have some fun in life instead of being the miserable sob you are🤣🤣🤣
@@talonpilot who shat in your breakfast?? Chill tf out
I disagree. They bust their rears servicing some great people but plenty of arseholes as well. They are busy nonstop catering to us. Turbulence can be deadly. They need to be belted in. Being a Flight Attendant is definitely an unappreciated job. Thanks for illustrating that point. Cheers @talonpilot
@@talonpilot
Your complete ignorance of Anything regarding the duties of airline cabin crewmembers, including their primary one, is absolutely pathetic.... and on full display here for all of us who have worked in the industry, and know the difference. Nice going, Bunky. 🙄🤣
(Retired airline pilot here... SoCal and Hawai'i)
As a retired ATC, we ask reason for change of destination mostly for what you spoke of earlier. Many pilots may be in an emergency situation but be reluctant to declare. We ask so as to allow the pilot to describe their situation and as they say it out loud they may reevaluate and realize that they should ask for help.
I am also a retired ATC and more than once I had to declare on behalf of reluctant pilots. You are 100% on the money.
Why would they often be reluctant though? I guess if you're in a very small aircraft you don't really want to be saying "mayday mayday mayday" to put anyone sitting near you into panic.
So far I heard by saying you have an emergency it will be on your record and it can make it difficult to make it to the airlines.
@@JHattsypeople are just like that. No one wants to be _that guy._ especially if there's any feeling of guilt involved, no one wants to be the guy declaring an emergency because some fuck up was getting out of control. And it's not even necessarily them hiding things from others, but simply not wanting to admit to themselves that they are in a critical situation. People tend to latch on to whatever good news there is, ignore the bad, and try to resolve the situation in a way that looks like there was never a problem.
Of course, by the time you're asking to land at a military base for fuel, it's probably a very bad situation.
@@ArmedVeteran1987 Yup. If you're not at fault for an emergency, an airline is just going to have you explain it and you're more than likely just fine. Its when an emergency was your fault that makes it harder to get in with the airlines, thus "trying to hide your mistakes".
I had a good friend who was Navy, he was stationed on an Aircraft carrier. Said one day they were 50 miles out to sea and his ranking officer told him to get on deck because there was a vintage fighter plane calling in an emergency for low fuel. Turned out it was an old WWII F4U Corsair pilot who was out flying, got lost and had to emergency land on the aircraft carrier.
That's actually pretty epic. How many civilian pilots would ever have the opportunity to make an emergency landing on a damn aircraft career. I assume it's rare. 😂😂 That said, not a good spot to be in over the sea regardless.
Was he flying an F4U, or was that just his former service aircraft?
@@maryeckel9682 He was flying one I was told. Idk if he was a pilot of one from WWII.
Nice story. Couldn't find a mention anywhere.
@@Wilem35 I think that's from the movie "Planes" where a racing crop duster lands on a carrier 🤣
This is an interesting story for me because I was stationed at Osan Air Base in the late 50s as my first permanent Air Force duty station out of basic training. I was an staff announcer at the Armed Forces radio station at Osan. I had two stripes at an Airman Second class but I had a ball doing in the Air Force exactly what I had always wanted to do since high school; be a radio disc jockey. Many fond memories at Osan for this now 84 year old.
Thank you for sharing, and your service!
I once landed at an airbase, but not by any fault of mine. It was a favorite thing to do for those who had planes to go “plane fishing “ or camping along the many islands that dot the Texas coast above Corpus to Galveston. On one such trip, a buddy of mine had just returned From a place neither of us had fished together. I Bought a new sectional, plotted a course noting that there were two airports on adjacent islands. 1was marked as a civilian airport and the other a military airbase. Truthfully neither looked occupied so I landed at the 1 noted and colored as a civilian airport. I called Unicom with no answer. I flew a standard pattern announcing my intensions downwind base and final with no answer. Then just as I flared for landing a Cessna 210 in civilian paint flew over at 50’ and away he went. After being surrounded by Jeep’s and escorted to what appeared to be HQ I was accused of landing at the wrong airport. I rebutted saying “not by my chart!” at which time I was invited in to prove. I whipped out my brand new sectional and proceeded to “prove” my ability to read a map. Sure enough I was right. The mapmaker had transposed the 2 airports and the. charts had to be changed.
lmao thats hilarious
I feel like I've heard about this before
@@ant_mk3596 On the show Mayday, there have been a couple instances where the charts were inaccurate. I think lives were lost as a result. That's probably where you've heard of such an incident.
How many bricks in those BVDs?
I landed at an airbase. Many times. Oh yeah, I was in the airforce.
The controller for the emergency fuel story probably saved the pilot and passengers lives. The pilot wasn't giving any information and didn't sound stressed with only 20 minutes of fuel. Good thing the controller wasn't like the pilot, he might have been another statistic and story on airplane crash investigations!
Great job Controller, that pilot owes you big time!!
It is sorta the nature of koreans to remain claim & to never push back on a elder (or higher authority in this case being a US/Korea base). This is why pilots (military) in korea where forced to learn english & US ways of communication after the korean war because they kept doing stuff like this and end up killing themselves (ie accept not being able to land, run out of fuel and crash). Sadly their culture is strong and sounds like this guy had no military training so didnt know to speak up for himself but knew basic english (alot south koreans learn english in school). Note: I'm not belittling koreans - these are facts and results learned and you can research it if you want to confirm. Honestly it is a nice idea for everyone to respect their elders, they just take it a bit too far causing deaths vs americans are not scared to speak up. Their language (if you learn it) directly enforces to never push back on an elder plus culture which is why korean military pilots are made to only use english when flying & they get extra ''speak up' mindset training as well. Hopefully this gives insight into why this pilot acted this way, it is a known issue, some things changed to prevent it, but the cilivian pilots in korea dont have their military training to address it.
Yeah the controller is really like egging him on to use the magic words.
The controller probably went "OH FUCKING BALLS 20 MINUTES TO BINGO FUEL!!!" and went right into emergency mode like it was a Mayday call.
@@JohnAdams-qc2ju Just like the Japanese, they take on responsibility even when it's not really their fault, like the Vice-Principal of the highschool that suffered so many deaths from the sinking of MV Sewol ferry, who committed suicide, and accept all responsibility for it, as he had organized the trip. We all know it was not his fault that the sinking happened, and that the fault rests with the ferry operators and the crew who abandoned their passengers after telling them to stay put, but to Vice-Principals Kang Min-kyu, that did not matter, for he was responsible for those students, so if they did not live, then neither could he.
@@StrokeMahEgo Exactly. The controller was at a military base, so those magic words really mattered. Until the pilot used those particular words, the controller's hands were tied. Once the words came out of the pilot's mouth, then the controller could step in and help. At one point, I can almost hear the controller thinking 'oh, please just say it already so I can get you some help'.
This happened at Scott AFB, IL, back in 1982. Farmer rented a plane to fly him, his wife, and son to St. Louis, to see a Cardinals game. It was his son's 12th birthday. A thunderstorm came up, and the pilot slapped the plane down on the only runway he saw. Oops. They got pulled off the plane, into the mud, at gunpoint. Once they figured out what happened, the Wing Commander authorized the kid and his family to be given the Royal Tour. All over the base, with gifts, hats, pictures, dinner at the Officer's Club..everything. I was in the base weather station, and got to meet them. The kid had a BLAST. Best birthday ever for him!
Good on the Wing Commander, kudos!
I got stuck at SAFB on my flight home from Germany because of a bad storm. We ran out of gas and electricity.... We were trapped on the runway, in the dark for like 7 hours.... Couldn't even use the restroom or stand up without an armed military escort
I thought you had to speak English as pilots and ATC
Royal Tour >> Cardinals game any day of the week
@@JACpotatos I was at Minot about 1990 or so, A Cessna landed on base. They did not even let that plane off the runway until the pilot was well and thoroughly detained. I don't know how long that guy was there before they let him go, or where his aircraft was towed to awaiting release. But He sure did not get a royal tour of base. I don't even know how or why he landed there. Presumably he was looking for Minot International. . .I said Minot, not LAX or JFK. Minot Intl, and MAFB have very similar runway configurations, very similar runway headings, might even be the same. They are both within a mile of the same US highway, one west of, one east of. and approx 13 miles apart. So it's possible, he just lined up and landed on the wrong airport. But no, he didn't get hats, and squadron patches.
I like how the controller in Korea was so professional. He started to realize there was a problem while juggling all the other responsibilities he had at the time. I like how he instinctively zeroed in on the real situation and then was truly professional and respectful instead of judgy as he got that plane safely on the ground.
It is time Usa removed their thousands of troops from Korea
@@PointNemo9 Not gonna happen. The South Koreans and the US are worried about the nut to the North.
And you can't even blame him, guy was getting poor communications in ultra-broken English.
I traveled there for work and found the Korean People, and those that served there, to be some of the most welcoming and understanding. While 'English' is supposed to be the recognized and only language for ATC all the world over, you just have to listen to recordings to hear controllers shifting in and out of their native languages to support those 'teammates' that are in the air.
@DinnerForkTongue It's not only about English, the pilot was scared but should've known to say anything that could've communicated they were in an emergency. It's nothing bad about the pilot, just they should teach proper ATC communication in flight schools
Kelsey, you mentioned that you did not know what happen after landing on an airbase because of an emergency. Well, you are directed to an isolated spot where you are greeted by armed soldiers, they will search thoroughly everyone onboard as well as the plan. They will verify the emergency conditions reported, and if everything clears they will escort you to where ever It is needed. I was in a somewhat similar situation (not in the US, in a DC-10 with one engine out, and during curfew), and we were at gun point until cleared. Awesome channel.
thanks Captain Obvious.
That sounds about right but I highly doubt that you were "at gunpoint" the entire time. Probably had armed guards and they were at ready but unless it was a warzone, it is just too exhausting to maintain the level of preparedness you claim for the whole time.
@@hi14993 It was during a war. The Salvadorian civil war.
@@josemitjavila You see, that is some vital context.
@@hi14993 it is not something I like to talk about. My apologies for not disclosing the details.
The military controller acted responsibly and with typical military grace.
RESPECT 🙏
The HL1004 incident, I can just imagine the controller muttering under his breath “just say the E-word, just damn well say it”. The moment the pilot uttered the magic word all the doors opened.
Agreed, I was cringing also, first the 'roger' which is not an 'affirmative' pilot still refused to say "Yes" just muttering, 'yeah...' I handled a few emergencies in my time: they didn't call 'mayday' instead just told me they were "declaring and emergency" when they called up. They were 4 engines jets and sometimes one would be out so they were obligated to report the emergency even though they were in no real danger. I was a trainee and I still laugh at myself asking them how many souls on board (there was only one possible answer).
@@d3ltabrav0 I don't get it... why was there only one possible answer?
I bet the pilot wanted to land at Osan because the ramp fees at Incheon are probably ridiculous.
You can almost hear the frustration in the controller's voice. "Buddy, as long as you don't *explicitly* say the magic word, I can't do anything for you." I mean, the controller couldn't put the word in the pilot's mouth more obviously if he flew up there and shoved a piece of paper down his throat, and he still doesn't get it.
As our fearless channel host said at the beginning of the segment, the very first transmission should have been something like "Mayday, Mayday, Mayday! Osan Airbase, Hotel Lima One Zero Zero Fower Fuel Emergency. Request immediate landing at Osan or closest available runway. Position X, heading Y, flight level Z (descending/ascending), two souls on board, two-zero minutes of fuel remaining." And everything would have been crystal clear.
Pf didn't sound very proficient in English, recipe for disaster.
Pilot: “Cessna 206”
ATC: “ Roger, Millennium falcon”
I once landed on a military base, as a passenger. There was an awful snowstorm in northern Norway at the time and since our plane was delayed we got in the middle of it, had we been on time we would've landed at our proper destination 30 mins before the storm struck.
So I don't know if the pilot declared emergency but we did get to land on a military base and then got transport in civilian vehicles to a nearby waystop/motel/inn where we waited for a proper bus that could get us to the airport proper.
Bardufoss / BDU?
Kelsey, you do a wonderful job of explaining what's going on, especially for us nonpilots -- and you're great at humanizing the pilots and ATC. Thank you!
The psychology of the low fuel pilot is very interesting. He knows he is low on fuel so fuel is his goal and concern. Because of that he focuses on fuel, "I want to land and and get fuel". He forgets to communicate the critical nature of that need, the emergency, because he is so focused on the fuel. At the same time the controller is trying to figure it out because he has not been told it it an emergency, the pilot just expects the controller to "know by ESP". Very cool example of two separate thought lines not blending.
come on, how many pilots omit information out of embarrassment, happens all the time. like the clowns that dumped fuel all over los angelas. If it was a public airport he could land and no one would be the wiser, unfortunately for him he could only reach an afb
I think a lot is cultural and lost in translation. I had a similar issue with a Japanese pilot.
I guess there might be a cultural element involved that's particlarly important in some Asian cultures were losing face is to be avoided at all costs - and running critically low on fuel could be seen as such so the pilot was trying to avoid admiting the reason for his request to land at the airbase. I think the controller who obviously was American understood the situation so quickly and resolved it quickly and efficiently albeit not necessarily most culturually sensitive A local controller would have dealth with it differently.
@@ralfbaechle Pride and sensitivity gets people killed. No time to be polite when there's an emergency situation.
@@ralfbaechle What would a local controller have done?
Huge respect to the ATC for the professional handling of the fuel situation. He took it in hand, got it done.
Military ATC no nonsense.
If you’ve got 20 minutes of fuel in a small, single engine plane, you have zero fuel. Those planes have inaccurate gauges and it’s really a guess as to how long your fuel will last. You’re basing it on how much fuel you put in and how long you calculated it will last based on manufacturer’s specifications in gallons per hour of fuel burn at a given air speed. If your engine isn’t exact to manufacturer’s specs, your burn will be different, so your fuel remaining may be less. And if your flight takes longer than planned because winds were different than expected, you can be in real trouble if you didn’t plan for enough extra or your plane is unusually inefficient. So getting down to “20 minutes remaining” means you are pretty much completely empty and should be issuing at least a PAN PAN PAN!!
US VFR regs say minimum 30 minute reserve...but frankly if I'm planning a trip and I don't end up with a minimum 1hr reserve, then I consider it "critical fuel" and look for an enroute stop.
I like to be very pessimistic when it comes to fuel remaining or time enroute...
@@driftertank 1 hour is a tad overkill imo. But if that's what puts your mind at ease, and your engine running, keep doing it. 👌
Per FAA rules, the gauges are expected to report precisely only at low values. So, 20 minutes should actually be 20 minutes. Which anyways is already lower than the day VFR reserve. Not good.
@@davecrupel2817
What can I say, I'm a conservative pilot.
As the saying goes, the most useless things to a pilot: altitude above you, runway behind you, and fuel left on the ground.
@@davecrupel2817 1 hour minimum is good insurance for unexpected conditions. Maybe your planned runway is unusable for some reason, or there's a thunderstorm parked right over it...
Good on the controller to go from annoyed to ARE YOU EMERGENCY FUEL right when he realized what was happening
No matter what, that story about hand flying the entire trip is brilliant.
Have a great week, everyone!
just don't call me out when you hear me telling the story in 20 years haha
@@74gear 74 gear i need help with finding a video or a detailed guide online on learning all the controls of airline planes. Im majoring in aviation in college.
There is an even better one I have heard the audio for (Vasavition?) of a large airliner doing an entire repo flight VFR!
It was JFK-LGA but who can claim to have flown any sizeable aircraft (can't remember exactly what it was) VFR the whole way
@@herosjourney8725 Google is your friend
@@dasy2k1 It was a CRJ-200. The crew were rejected for IFR clearance because ATC did not have a flight plan on file and they were advised to re-file it. They then requested VFR clearance instead which caused utter confusion in ATC but was eventually granted because it is a perfectly valid request. Just, as you say, no-one ever actually flies planes of that size VFR out of a major airfield. Highly amusing.
PPR = Prior Permission Required. Sometimes it also applies to military aircraft going to a military field such as when there is an airshow happening in the near future. Reading the IFR Supplement will clue the pilot into whether or not it is required.
In the UK it will say even in the VFR directory if it is PPR, along with the number to call to obtain it.
Thank you.
I was stationed at GTMO as a young enlisted Marine and we had a plane land one night that had no radio contact with the tower. Turned out to be a Naval Officer who was being stationed there and so he flew himself and his family. They all ended up handcuffed with a squad of Marines pointing guns at them while everyone investigated his story. Unfortunately his kids were pretty freaked out but the dad should have known better.
Yes indeed!
So, crew served weapons were pointed at them? Or do you need to get a code red for calling a rifle a "gun".
@@rustyjohnson9558 Settle down cowboy. You're on a civilian website with a civilian (and international,) audience. Using civilian vernacular is perfectly acceptable.
@@baronofclubs This seems like an emotional response to an unemotional question between myself and another party. There is a specific reason for my question that you are not privy to. So, who really needs to settle down and mind their own affairs?
@@rustyjohnson9558 Is this what the military turns people into?
When I was stationed at Grissom AFB IN, there was an incident with a small private aircraft. The pilot was heading to Indianapolis, but was extremely low on fuel, and fog had the visibility at near zero. He was still sixty miles from his destination. Our air traffic controller attempted to talk him down to our three mile long runway. He missed the runway, ran out of fuel, and crashed into our munitions storage building that was parallel to the runway. Pilot and son did not make it.
Oof :(
Damn, that's gotta be rough on the ATC...
Was that story covered in some television report or in a YT vid? At least it sounds familiar to me.
I'm from Kokomo and I've heard of this story a few times
The first one reminds me of a story I heard, not sure if it happened. A German plane was in Germany asking why they couldn't speak German on the radio. A British pilot responded to them with "Because you lost the bloody war!"
I'm pretty sure that's a myth, little bits and pieces of German on frequency are common, so I don't think any pilot would react like that. Plus if you fly VFR, German can be used legally for the whole flight
It was recorded, I've seen the clip
And what about that British Airways pilot struggling with the right exit lane (or whatever is the right name. Sorry, I'm not a pilot) while in Hamburg Airport and was approached in a rude manner by a German ATC asking him if he had been at Hamburg before? The answer from the pilot was : "Yes, twice in 1944, but I didn't stop".
@@metalmongrel69 Post a link
Reminds me of a story I heard from a brit, they said they were on a train and two women sitting across from them were talking in another language, and the person sitting next to the story teller says, "I can't stand that. If you're going to come to this country you should learn to speak the language." to which they pointed out, "we're in Wales, and they're speaking Welsh."
I'm just a passenger, and I love turbulence, especially if there's a fast drop, because it tells me we're actually flying as opposed to waiting in a long, boring corridor on the ground somewhere. I also love to look out of the window all the time, I think it's very special to see the earth and the clouds from above. I don't understand people who just watch movies because we can watch movies anytime on the ground.
I commute by plane. I have a bit of a look and then I pull the shades and watch the movie.
Once you've flown a few times, most of the scenery becomes more or less the same. Large mountains are cool to see. Some cloud formations are nice to look at. Cities can be fun to watch during takeoff and landing, especially at night. But 20,000 feet up flying over unremarkable splotches of green or brown gets boring pretty quickly. Worse is flying over a solid cloud and having nothing to look at except endless white and the plane's shadow.
Some people are afraid to fly and movies calm them. From a FA
Thanks for making all these videos so interesting and accessible. I am not a pilot, nor would I consider myself an aviation enthusiast, but one of your videos popped up in my feed last week, and I've been devouring them since. I'm kind of a nervous flyer -- one of those "it's not natural for a 400-ton tube to be able to fly through the sky" people -- but seeing things from the perspective of the pilot, flight crew, ATC, etc has made me a lot less anxious about flying later this month. Thanks again Kelsey, you're the man!
You mentioned pilots trying to cover their mess up and it sure sounded like this pilot really really didn't want to say he only had 20 minutes of fuel because as you pointed out that's a humongous screw up. As a side note, in 1985 I was working at Osan as a government contractor. One day driving out of the base I saw a U2 land. It was beautiful. It looked like a glider landing.
At least he didn't end up like John Denver did; sadly dying due to running out of fuel.
Government agents: you did not see a U2 land, that was swamp gas that reflected the light from Venus.
Why worry about image + ego when you might soon crash or die, if you do not put your emotions aside + declare an emergency?! I thought that Was taught day one in flight training. Also you can harm other people or property!
@@concierge7574 Could be cultural. Pilot sounds Korean.
@@concierge7574 Totally a cultural behavior. Visit ROK - beautiful country and you will never run out of things to do in Seoul. Trying to take American cultural behavior there and expecting it to be the same there...it was definitely an experience I won't forget! So different in ways I never expected!
Your explanations are soo good. You really make me smile hearing such great analysis of these situations. And it's also really great watching a guy doing something he's so obviously totally good at, and loving it. Thanks Kelsey !
Speaking of turbulence I always have my seatbelt buckled on commercial flights. Late 80s I was flying on Continental all was fine then the seat belt chime went off and the light lit up. We start getting a little bumpy no big deal when suddenly the plane just dropped, not a lot, but enough so unbuckled passengers came out of their seats and got slammed back down. One poor elderly lady ended up in the aisle. Always wear those seat belts folks.
ALways have, even if loosely. I've always had them on. I remember my flight to Europe (Frankfurt, or Amsterdam) plane dropped harshly then regained altitude. Crazy stuff.
To say nothing of Aloha Airlines flight 243...
@@burke615 THAT was literally a Miracle Landing... and then the "new" theory of that explosive depressurization is just heart-wrenching.
I’m retired Air Force and the best story I have about civ ac landing at military bases is when the Goodyear blimp accidentally landed at Robins AFB in Georgia. He meant to land at Macon regional and it’s really close to the base. Happened back in 97 I think. I was a cop and we had to respond but was watching it happen…in really slow motion lol
Better than the C-130 that landed at the wrong airport in Tampa.
'pilot say you're in an emergency so i can actually help you' is what im hearing from mil ATC there. thanks tower guy!
Great episode! I find this is similar in an Emergency Room. Key words to indicate severity and nature of the emergency. If you're a patient (like me) with frequent "key term" symptoms, you learn to specify, "not outside of my baseline" to avoid unnecessary workups.
That Korean guy sounds very calm for having 20 minutes of fuel on board.
That struck me as extremely odd + potentially dangerous. He's lucky that on the ball ATC quickly asked all the crucial questions.
Yeah, that calmness was not helping him out in that situation. Letting him land in a military base is after all a huge risk without being able to vet the pilot or aircraft.
my guess. he was too embarrassed to admit his situation over the radio.
Seemed to me like he was too busy trying to translate. His proficiency with English is certainly nothing to brag about, so I'd completely understand if he was consumed with trying to find the right words. He likely wouldn't've found 'em if the ATC didn't pitch in.
Dude you are my inspiration. I’ve always had a passion to fly planes and I’ve now chosen my career ahead of me. You inspire me to become a pilot cannot thank you enough
Way back in the late 1990 a friend of mine and me were flying from an airfield close to St Etienne to Dijon (France) by two single seated gliders. My friend was way too fast and ended a couple of miles south of Dijon so low that he had to land. He landed on a French military airbase. When I asked the ATC of that airbase if I could land there too in order to join my friend, although I was high enough to make it to Dijon, the ATC approved. So I landed with a German glider on a French military airbase. People there were very kind, helped us to pull the gliders off the runway and we spent a nice afternoon with the ATC and military staff. No paperwork, just a glas or two of French Red Wine :)
I used to hang out in IRC with free software coders. They hated people asking if they could ask questions. "Don't ask to ask, just ask." The trouble there is the extra question is _noise._ It takes time away from other people with questions and more than that, it's a whole different kind of request for the coders to process. It's not about what they're thinking about, which is the code. It's not so bad once they're used to it, they'll just respond with "Yes," but it's still noise.
@@urbanistiq8009 I know, right? :) It's still around, presumably most used by the coders who can least handle the metaphorical noise of other services. For some, it's also nice that writing IRC client software is very straightforward.
I'm not a pilot...wanted to.. but life...well ..you know. Grandfather was a pilot. He was one of the last to fly in and out of Cuba in 59. He ferried planes to South America using runways in the jungles that some pilots would never dare , hitting tops of trees in many instances from short runways. He crashed his plane in Cedar Rapids Iowa during an ice storm , front gear not lowering due to ice build up. He cracked the propeller which I still have to this day. I am riveted to your videos. So much of it makes good sense. Things that should have been I guess. Too late for me now but I love the info . You explain it in such detail and so complete. Very good my friend. Keep it up....the blue side up.
Captain, appreciate all your videos I have watched so far.
Know I am unable to fly but appreciate your breakdown of flights and having it make sense.
Thank you for your time.💪🇺🇲
I’ve watches all of the Air Safety Institute videos about GA incidents that the pilots didn’t survive and most of them were people who were too embarrassed to declare an emergency.
They have a video of a dentist or something flying a piper cherokee who ran out of fuel by Dover Airbase and ran out of fuel on approach and died
@@eriknervik9003 wild, I thought of this exact incident. He was too embarrassed/worried to request landing at a military field until it was inevitable he would run out of fuel and crash. The tragedy is he could have easily landed at Air Base but instead lost his life.
Didn't that guy have enough fuel initially but had to divert twice or something like that? Sometimes crap just happens
I don't understand that. It's Darwinian. You have to remain level headed + deal with it. Everybody makes mistakes + if you learn from them, there's little to no shame, + then you're an improved pilot. Ego or being overly protective of one's image gets in the way sometimes with unfortunate + 100% preventable results. Ask for help STAT!
If you're a pilot in an emergency situation, always remember that you're the pilot in command. In command. Your job is to get your plane and passengers back onto the ground safely, it all possible. You control the aircraft inputs, not ATC or the FAA.
he tried to save face.
I served one year in Korea. I've been to both Osan and Pyeongtaek. The only U-2 I ever saw in 23 years of Army service was taking off from Pyeongtaek Air base. I was going into a Mexican Restaurant just off base. It wasn't like American Mexican food but it was close enough. The U2 was the high light of that trip.
When I was at Osan AB in the mid 90's, the U-2's were on 12's every day. We saw them every single day, twice a day. Our barracks (Airmen) faced the runway so we never got any sleep. All aircraft except A-10's would use the afterburners upon take off because it is one of the few areas you are allowed to.
I snuck some badass photos of U-2's taking off while I was in the Runway Standby Unit about 100 feet from the runway edge. Too cool and very illegal!
The 90's kicked ass.
I was at Rhein-Main airport in 1965 waiting with a group of GIs for our flight to rotate back to the US. As we were waiting on the apron, a U-2 took off and one of the guys took a couple of pictures with his camera. An AP noticed this, ran over to the guy, tore the camera out of his hands, opened the camera, pulled the exposed film out of the camera, and threw it on the ground.
As a frequent flying passenger, I love turbulence! Especially the turbulence that makes others gasp is the best! Don't want to see people tossed around, but moderate chop / moderate turbulence is fun.... for me. I think FAs love it because everyone has to sit, stay seated and they can get a break.
I once crossed the Atlantic Ocean on a cruise ship Southampton to NCY. QE II to be exact. For the first two thirds of the trip we encountered massive headwinds (9knots) and huge waves which were from a hurricane on the east coast of the USA. The ship has over 290m (970ft) of length. But it still let the horizon go up and down considerably. It was quite empty in the restaurant. And you were rolled around in your bed. But it was fun! And the captain explained he had to reduce speed by two knots in order to make passengers (and crew!) feel better. But he also remarked that he knew that some passengers were on the trip just because of the weather and were enjoying it. He was right on the money!
If I had wanted a smooth ride I could have taken a plane.
In my experience a lot of people still don’t sit during turbulence
I like to stand in the aisle and my slightly bent legs act as "human suspension". xD boing boing boing boing
when in turbulence and the plane goes down, jump up ;) some sort of fake zero G....did that on a flight back from China once...FAs where not too amused about me jumping around
The explanation that's kind of missing from this video is that cumulonimbus is abbreviated not CN but Cb, hence Charlie Bravo.
We used to call those storms "cumulo bumpus." Is that where "charlie bravo" came from? ;)
I wondered about that, thanks!
That makes perfect sense now! It could be edited to add that, + there's a plethora of repetition in this interesting video. Kelsey is superb at explaining things. Born to fly and to teach!
@@jimshaw899 thank you I was wondering
Had a conversation with a bloke about ten years or so ago. He said he was on a light plane at night somewhere in Australia. The plane was experiencing engine problems and the pilot declared an emergency and asked if anyone could direct them to the the closest landing strip possibly expecting vectors to a bush strip.
Someone came on the radio and started giving the pilot directions after some time he was told the runway should be in front of him and then a series of lights lit up on the ground. He was instructed to land and continue off the end of the runway, at the end was a ramp going down. They stopped in an underground hanger, armed soldiers directed them to some sort of waiting room. Sometime later a soldier came in and informed them that the plane was repaired and they must leave. He has no idea where it was or what it was.
Obviously I wasn’t there so I can’t confirm the story but the bloke worked for defence and i see no reason to doubt his word.
I'm willing to bet it was a listening post or something.
I remember that incident while I was stationed at Camp Humphreys, Pyeongtaek, Desiderio AAF. We had to hold for 20 minutes for that aircraft. Single long airfield for the US Army Aviation. Thanks for sharing!
The low fuel part reminds me of a story my old boss told me from back in the day when he worked for Flying Tigers (a little before my time). There was a captain with the nickname of "Fumes Flannigan" that was notorious for cutting fuel in order to take on more cargo. This caused a low fuel emergency (and cutting in line) coming into Japan on more than one occasion. They eventually caught on and had a talk with Flying Tigers to inform them that if it happened again, the plane would go in the drink. I was just a lowly load master, so can't verify the reality of this actually happening, but it made for a good story at least.
Always believed Flying Tigers Airline was the real CIA airline in Vietnam. Made real sense if you consider they flew in under fire. Flew them into Saigon from the states, but we're held 3 hours in Yakota, Japan while the runway was being repaired after a shelling at Saigon. (Never could spell that airport). Great greeting there! Never will forget being scared sh,*tless.
The Cessna pilots voice at 18:42 sounds so defeated. The guy probably thought he was about to crash and sounded resigned to his fate. No yelling or pleading, just “ohh…I’m fuel shortage”. He be probably was resigned because he was scared but also extremely ashamed he messed up so badly to be in that situation.
Glad ATC was able to read between the lines and coax mayday out of him!
A student pilot from the flying club where I learned to fly was on a solo flight when I noticed that despite careful flight planning he was heading for a thunderstorm so ended up diverting to a nearby military airbase in England only to be received by a bunch of soldiers pointing the buisness end of their rifles at him and he ended up getting arrested. Turned out this was during a military execise and the folks on the airbase thought he was part of the exercise. Eventually the flying club which was aware of the diversion called and yet again the folks on the airbase thought that was all part of the exercise. It took a little while to convince them to release the poor student pilot - who had done everything strictly by the book. So yes, maybe military airbases are not the preferred choice ;-)
As a retired Air Force Crew Chief, landing during an exercise is the worst possible time. When I was in an evaluator during exercises, and something unplanned happened, I would inform the proper authorities, this is not part of the exercise, so handle it properly.
One summer while I was working a job delivering pizza, I was set up as the "stooge" for a training exercise at my local air force base. Some of us got to use "I was just doing my job" as an excuse, and some didn't.
Edit: I was the one that didn't.
Guess what i call.. BS.
Surely the Bases ATC would have informed the right people? They don’t just let anyone land on an airbase unless it’s like an emergency?
Well he'll never go to another base now. Did the plane atleast get returned?
It also seems like the controller needed the formality of dealing with an emergency aircraft. He probably would've been in trouble if he had just agreed to let the plane go to Osan, had it NOT been an emergency. But now that the formality of a declared emergency has been established the controller has covered his behind, can help the pilot land safely anywhere, and now it's up to the pilot to explain and cover his (the pilot's) rear.
I did that once many years ago. I was met by a jeep full of AP's and it took a few hours to square it away. I was in a piper tri-pacer on VFR and the weather had quickly closed down. Luckily, My Dad, who was an AF Pilot, was with me. I had just gotten my license, and this was one of my first Flights. I will never forget this flight and the color of my dad's face when we got to the command post. We both got ragged on by all the personnel that could get to us. After we got the plane cleared and back home, He did tell me I had done a fair job getting the tri-pacer down in the weather. Weather reporting has come a long way since we made that flight.
A little more info the Thai food call:
The pilot's referencing PWM, Portland Jetport, and KAUG, Augusta State Airport, in Maine. Augusta airport is actually a tiny little airport with a single restaurant called Sweet Chili Thai (it's actually listed on the airport's official website), and while Augusta is the capital, it's actually rather small, too. I'm a native and find it hard to get good, non-chain restaurant food there. Portland is the biggest city in the state by far, and there's dozens, maybe hundreds of awesome restaurants in driving distance from PWM. In other words, the pilot made the right call... if they don't like Thai.
My wife, a middle aged motherly woman was a passenger on a flight that got into heavy turbulence and the woman sitting next to her started to panic, my wife held her hand and calmed her down, then there was more turbulence and a junior member of the cabin crew had a panic attack and asked my wife to hold her hand as she was afraid. She sat on the floor next to my wife who was able to calm her down. She was ok when the turbulence was over.
Oof. Having a panic attack on a plane, as a cabin crew has to be awful.
@@fenerbahceqwe3756 My wife said that the girl was very embarrassed about her panic attack.
You must be very happy to have such wife 🙂 All the best for you both!
@@igorsmihailovs52 I am. Our 15th wedding anniversary was yesterday.
When I was stationed at the submarine base at Bangor WA in the late 80's or early 90's, a Cessna flying at night landed on the road at our nuclear weapons storage area, thinking it was the local airport. They never stated how the security forces reacted, only that the pilot was as so afraid, he never returned for the plane
Aww, Kelsie didn't include the best part of the first clip. The controller making fun of Spirit Air to the other plane in Spanish, and then Spirit Air coming back in Fluent Spanish to put him down lol.
Oh snap where is that audio?
Post a link please!
A big issue for Asian pilots has been the cultural deference shown to authority figures. You can tell the pilot feels uncomfortable telling ATC what he needs, great job by ATC to recognize there was more going on. He may have prevented a serious accident by pushing through the communication issues and getting a full picture of the situation.
he was embarrassed to admit he did not have fuel. crazy.
I don’t think it is culturally related. The pilot wasn’t expecting a no when he said for fuel. Of course, he should declared it.
That particular problem “for Asian pilots” is more have to do with Korean culture, which was true after a few Korean airlines crash and poor CRM in Taiwanese China Airline. But it is not a problem in Japan or in Mainland China, in addition, that problem had been fixed for some 10 years now. No recent problem from Korean Airlines or China Airlines, recent crashes involving Asian pilots are either incompetence/tired pilots in Asiana Airlines or due to 737 Max.
I'm familiar with the story. The plane was not supposed to be in that part of Korea, he was supposed to be doing a job near the southern side but for whatever reason got quite lost. There were other airports he could have landed in to get his bearings - Daejeon, but he kept flying the wrong direction hoping he could fix his mistake and only finally agreed to land at the nearest airport when he got his emergency fuel alert. "Protecting reputation" is big in the Korean culture. His priority was to not let anyone find out he'd screwed up, and in the process he screwed up even more. If he'd landed in Daejeon he could have fueled up, asked for directions, and been on his way. Instead, the AFB had to truck in fuel (as they don't carry fuel for his plane) and by the time that happened, the pilot had been fired, he'd been booted out of the base, and a different pilot flew it back home.
There may be a cultural element, but I can imagine a lot private pilots from anywhere in the world would be seriously nervous and reluctant to contact a big military base even if they did have an issue, especially if that issue was one of their own making.
@@anononomous he wasn't a private pilot. It might have been a tiny plane but he was still flying on a commercial license for commercial reasons. He just didn't want his company to find out he was very very off course.
FYI (not included in the clip): after the Spanish ATC asked other pilots what weather they could see, another Spanish pilot replies saying something along the lines of “I can see some clouds but it doesn’t look so bad”. Immediately after, the Spirit pilot responds in *FLUENT SPANISH* “well you might see something different to what we can see!” The rest of the video is the pilot speaking either in Spanish or English.
Retired center controller here (US). Never heard "Charlie Bravo" much, and always considered it slang. "Weather" was the accepted standard. That one point you said that controllers have satellite weather that is frequently more up-to-date than your onboard radar. Approach controllers have some real time capability, but center controllers are on nexrad and will run frequently minutes behind. I'm always amazed at The cooperative effort between pilots and controllers to get everyone on the same page when it comes to getting through weather. Your description of the Miami controllers is typical of what I would see in North Florida. Just out of efficiency controllers would direct you to an area that they believe to be "softer", and counted on updates from pilots as to how that method was working. Storms, and holes constantly move and change and the teamwork is critical. When riding jump seat the pilot universally were appreciative of the skills of Florida controllers when it came to thunderstorms. The old joke was that when we would get a 50 mi in trail restriction for New York airports, we would say "New York has a cloud". One more: you cited that it was "ok" for the pilot to unilaterally take a weather deviation as long as he told the controller about it. In fact that is a usage of the pilots "emergency authority" to do what it takes to keep his plane safe. From a regulatory standpoint, he must declare that he is doing so on an emergency basis. That permits the controller to relax the rules, and spend his time keeping traffic away from the emergency aircraft. Some of these rules might have changed since I retired about 10 years ago, but I believe they are essentially the same.
Charles, if you read a METAR or TAF the abbreviation for Cumulonimbus is CB. I have never heard it used in the US, we always say buildup or weather, but CB is understandable. Until tonight I probably wouldn't have realized what they were saying with Charlie Bravo.
I too was a Center controller, never heard of "Charlie Bravo" or CB. It was just weather or thunder storms.
As a pilot who's flown all over world, I've never used or heard of anyone using "CBs" either... seems strange to me as well 🤔
@@davidkrizauskas4993 your story matches up. Seems legit to me.
@@its_broome Ryan? Haha
To be clear, at least at my tower and radar facility I work, our weather radar ONLY depicts precipitation intensity, not clouds. So it’s not uncommon for pilot to ask for deviations for build-ups while our screen is completely clear, because those build-ups don’t have any precip in them. My understanding is that’s the standard system-wide, at least here in the States.
Thanks for helping us understand w hat ATC has to deal with. I think we are all so used to seeing the Doppler weather radar reports on our local TV news reports, that we just assume that your equipment is at least as good, if not better at seeing and helping you understand the weather as it’s changing throughout the day.
@@soomi3541 Those Doppler reports are exactly what the ATC sees. The news doesn't show you the big puffy things, because those have almost no mass or density (remember that fog is literally just a cloud on the ground), they show you storm cells.
I'm not a pilot. I don't work in aviation or at an airport. But I love your videos. It's fascinating.
The first one happened in Costa Rica. IMPOSSIBLE to not recognise that controller’s voice.
Also, as a flight attendant I can say it’s true. I LOVE turbulence. Not just because if they tell you to sit is an extra break, but I find it fun. Specially at the crew rest compartment. Not much different than riding a bus down a bumpy road
I'm not fond of riding a bus down a bumpy road, either.
Were you a roller coaster addict before you became a flight attendant?
@@SonsOfLorgar TBH, I hate roller coasters and heights. I even get dizzy in the merry go round. But surrounded by a cabin I don’t mind it one bit
Isn't turbulence dropping the plane by hundreds of feet?
I bet you like riding horses ?
Sailplane pilots like turbulence too, it usually means lift is available. Also saw a little piper cub land at MacDill back in the 90's. Just made it in front of a huge thunderstorm. By the time he caught the "follow me" truck it was a windy downpour. I saw the same plane take off about an hour later after the storm had passed. Their lucky day I guess.
I am in Huntsville AL and we have had a few Civilians mistake Redstone AAF for KHSV, one afternoon while on the flightline at Redstone a lone Cessna 182 landed and taxied up to the Ramp. The MP's were rushing to the plane and directed the confused and elderly man to get on the ground. The Pilot was speaking to KHSV tower thinking he was on final to 18R, he was in fact on final and landed at Redstone with the same heading. I felt very bad for the man. HSV tower, in my opinion should have noticed he was out of position, but the pilot should also have known where he was, it was clear blue and 22 that day.
Actually, "sitting there eating a sandwich" is probably the one circumstance where the controller isn't ready to hear your request. He's got to swallow the bite he's working on and have a swig of his beverage before he can respond.
"Mayday" has ruined many a an ATC's third sandwich of the shift (only 5 more to go). And the cleaners don't like seeing them in the bin, just in case there's a follow-up event elsewhere....
Only time ever acceptable to eat at work station is when working alone on nightshift and don't have relief. Food not allowed around sensitive (critical) electronic equipment, not to mention whomever relieves you from your station doesn't want to see your sandwich crumbs all over their workplace. They might even require you to clean up a mess or garbage before taking over. Allowed to keep a covered drink on the floor under the bench.
😂
So you need to swallow bite of food before you can hear? Pilot stating he has a request of ATC means before you can even know what he wants to ask, you have to respond. If you are going to respond, might as well respond with the answer to the question, than need to respond twice.
@@MrT------5743 True, but one has to have an empty mouth in order to speak clearly, and spitting out is quicker than trying to swallow.....
I’m guessing that ATC was military? What a true professional, calm, cool, and collected. You can hear the urgency in his voice once he realized the gravity of the situation, but he didn’t sound panicked, he sounded simply concerned.
military is different to civilian in that people join the military because they want to be heroes. they want shit to go wrong so they can save the day. they train for it everyday. and when you train for something everyday and it never happens that can be really frustrating. so when it does happen, you are more than prepared and willing to do the thing you have been practicing for years. not a dig at anyone but this is the truth. when military people die and everyone says what a dedicated person that guy was, he was doing it for his country blah blah, thats only half the truth. the first reason he was doing was for himself. he wanted adventure, he wanted to be a badass. this is known by every soldier but no one says it publicly. some people just want to be heros. works out good for everyone involved, most of the time :)
@@freelectron2029 yeah i think that is undeniable. you don't just join the military for no reason
Yes, USAF ATC works Osan approach control
@@DevinDTV it seems obvious to you and me (possibly because we are male) but to some it is not obvious. there are a lot of clueless people walking around sharing there opinions loudly.
The military does its own ATC on their bases and on their own aircraft carriers
My dad was a hot balloon pilot for 20+ years. He once flew over a military base and was instructed to leave the area, which is impossible as the balloons are controlled by wind. They told him to land immediately and packed up his balloon for him. They later tried to find him $5000 for the commotion but he never paid.
They "packed up his balloon"? What? Is that like "took the wind out of his sails"? Did they shoot down his balloon? Pfft.
@@ranonampangom2185 no they wrapped it up in the bag it goes in
@nataliewershay3474 in other words, packed it up lol
I was ballooning once, when we started drifting towards a military site. It's a "DO NOT ENTER, YOU WILL BE SHOT" kind of site. The pilot had flown around other military bases before, and believed that if we drifted over the border "a little, it'll be fine". After a minute of trying to tell him it wouldn't "be fine", my husband pointed out the vehicles that suddenly appeared over the hill, just then a very quiet, very black helicopter just seemed to appear.
We had a very hard landing, right up along the fence, where there's posted every 20 or so feet "NO Trespassing. Use of DEADLY FORCE AUTHORIZED"
At least he was not full of hot air.
Hey Kelsey, I discovered your channel yesterday and just love it! I am an Instrument Rated, Single Engine Land, Private Pilot with about 1,500 hours and find your videos educational, as well as very entertaining. On this one I had to go back and watch with glee your facial expression when you mimicked the old timer, salty pilot, "...hand fly the whole flight." I look forward to enjoying many more of your videos! Thanks!
When a base is scheduled for a organizational readiness inspection, the inspectors frequently arrive unannounced on an aircraft, that declared an emergency and need to land ASAP. Upon landing, the inspectors all jump out and penetrate as many facilities as possible. That is always the beginning of a few very long days.
That's how you do pen testing, damn
Maybe dumb question, but... how has nobody been shot doing this? Inspector or not, base security probably doesn't take kindly to unannounced people taking off sprinting through an active military base.
@@perciusmandate There is a story about General Curtis LeMay riding in a staff car that crossed the red line on the flight line without permission where nuclear bombers were parked. A guard shot at the car and it stopped. The General got out and demoted the guard on the spot. The guard told the General that he was doing what he was suppose to do. General Lemay said that he wasn't demoting him for shooting at him. He was demoted because he missed.
@@KnightandDay33 No it's not. I was in the AF stationed at Kadena AB on Okinawa, and exercises were pretty frequent. They would usually start on a weekend, wearing MOPP gear (flak vest, chemical shirt/pants, helmet with utility belt and gas mask) over normal uniform. 12+hour work days, doing whatever job you have versus "playing" in exercise, and even at the end of your shift if you are caught in an alarm while going to your car, you still have to MOPP up. The only good thing was hearing INDEX on the loudspeakers on Friday afternoon which announced the end of the exercise.
@@perciusmandate that’s the whole idea of the ORI. The job of the inspectors is to poke holes in the security system of the base. Their job is exactly to do that. Because they are replicating what an enemy might do under the guise of a fake emergency.
When I was a teen, I was up in the ATC cab visiting my dad. The only traffic was several minutes out while there was a ground emergency at the same time.
We were stationed at Cannon AFB in Clovis NM. One of the F111s had a fuel check valve that didn’t close when fuels disconnected, and fuel was draining back out. As we were watching fire respond, I looked up and saw a Cessna Golden Eagle about a mile or so out. I (innocently) asked about the plane. My dad’s crew got busy with the light gun, on guard, and activating the primary crash net.
The plane landed a few minutes ahead of the 2 F4s. He was greeted by armed AIr Police pointing M16s at him while they surrounded him. His excuse was that his wife was in severe pain from a broken arm that was in a cast. The final determination was that he thought he was landing in Lubbock TX and couldn’t figure out why no one was answering him. His confusion was compounded the the unusual A/C on the ramp. Nothing looks like a parked F111.
19:15 I like that once the controller confirms the emergency fuel situation, he doesn't drag it on any longer by asking the pilot to declare a mayday or formally declare an emergency. He immediately starts to coordinate how to get the plane on the ground and doesn't waste any time.
It depends, if my request is short sweet and standard I will check in and ask in the same transmission. Otherwise I’ll check in with “callsign, with request” to make sure I have good radio contact and didn’t get stepped on and waste a lot of breath. I agree with you, the guy wanting to land at Osan could very easily have gotten his point across easier!
Hey Kelsey, We flew into Osan in 1980 without a PPR , we were a USMC CH53D helicopter and were surrounded by Airforce vehicles with mounted machine guns along with MP pointing M16 rifles at us, they did allow us to shut down the aircraft prior to putting us face down on the tarmac. It all worked out bit it was no joke.
That was just payback for the stunts we pulled on them during Team Spirit.
That low fuel emergency was frustrating to watch. You would have saved so much time if you just said "emergency fuel" or really any sentence with "emergency" in it. Yet the dude was beating around the bush for several minutes.
The pilot was handling an emergency as a non-native English speaker. He did quite well.
@@mshighaltitude As far as I know, he was avoiding making a big deal out of it for fear of lost reputation, a thing very important in Korean culture.
Unfortunately he lost all the reputation anyway, as well as his job right then and there.
Great job by the military ATC for resolving a confusing situation that could easily have ended in tragedy.
I enjoy your rendition of incidents and intelligent sense of humor. You are unique. Ktbsu!
Kelsey going to be going round and round and round the next few flights when the ATC hears about how the tower staff are eating sandwiches and talking on their phones
I'm Flight Attendant and I like getting seated, fasten my seat belts and enjoy the view of the passengers faces. Those same passengers that laugh on you when you go check the cabin asking them to put their bags under the seats and to fasten their seat belts and so on
So basically the Key and Peele video?
Ikr? They put on theur seatbelts QUICK
Absolutely...I was a flt attendant some 20 years ago and I loved turbulence because there was no service during that time. On a chartered flight, we had multiple services throughout the flight, so to not do one of those services was great..because Chartered flights try to work flt attendants all the time. On an int'l flt, its a nice repose.
“PPR number” =
Prior Permission Request (number). Used to land at U.S. Military bases for conducting business and/or training there. They don’t hand out PPR numbers to just any GA flight.
Almost exclusive to their flying clubs.
The big civilian airport west of Miami International also uses PPRN. That airport was exclusively for air carrier type aircraft to practice touch & gos or approaches without interfering with KMIA.
@@tscottme would the western one be Tamiami? If so never knew that
Depends on the base. Dover AFB has a civil ramp operated by the state inside the perimeter and will happily take your landing fee arrange a PPR for any old reason.
Which seems weird until you realize it's the only place to land jet aircraft for a pretty good distance and NASCAR teams love business jets.
@@EyeMWing well yeah, there are many military bases now that share a civilian ramp. They are dual use airfields. MCAS Yuma is shared and also known as “Yuma International.”
I find it very important to speak more than one language.
My mother tongue is German, but I also speak English (obviously, because it's the universal language) Italian and French. It's not just because I like languages, I find it insanely gratifying to being able to speak to people in their mother tongue. It cuts language barriers in half and really bridges some gaps.
And the best thing is: Everyone can learn languages. You just need to be determined to do so.
This is actually largely necessary for most of the jobs in the EU - knowing at least 3 languages: your national one, English (obviously), and a secondary one to a lesser extent than English (not even reallly counting English as secondary at this point, you know it or you're out, period). Anything outside of that is usually beneficial, but not mandatory. For most jobs, 2 languages (native and English at at least C2 level) is a mandatory requirement. I myself speak Polish, English, French (not as much as I'd like though, still working on it) and a bit of German. And I agree - it's very important. In Europe, it's crucial. Internationally, English will suffice.
In the US, it doesn't account for as much - knowing English itself will usually see you through, knowing English and one other language well will definitely see you through. There is just not that much need to learn languages, if your northern border is with an English-speaking country as well, and your southern border with a Spanish-speaking country, which plenty of people speak in in your country as well.
Europe simply has a larger amount of countries to deal with, so there is more demand for specific languages. Not so much in the US.
However, learning languages if both fun, useful, and gives you an additional way to see the world in. Not many things are as beneficial.
You gave a huge shout out to MIA for getting you around weather. I have to second that in a big way. I watched them get planes into MIA around hurricane Ian today as it was making landfall near Ft. Meyer, which is not that far away, and it looked like they were also taking diverts from FLL as well. They had them stacked pretty tight (think ATL) for a while, but they were getting the job done.
I remember flying from Santa Barbara to Long Beach and feeling kind of intimidated with all the radio traffic. I always stayed in my corridor and prayed please god don't let me mess up. This was back in early 70s.
Have you ever flown out of Chicago? The ATC is so busy it's nuts.
Hi Kelsey, Just wanna post it out here, you're doing an amazing job with your videos.
As I was growing up I always wanted to be an pilot (comercial pilot) but not always the dreams come true, life took me in another direction, it's just how it is. But watching your videos the flame inside of me is beginning to burn again, not tô become a comercial pilot, but just to learn to fly, and fly solo in a plane, to kinda fulfill this dream I had since a was a little kid.
You seem to love what you do (fly and make videos about aviation)... And this is amazing (I love my work also, don't get me wrong here). Thanks for all the teachings and cool Infos about aviation.
Keep up the good work, you're inspiring people!!
Greetings from Brazil and Germany.
I've trained for 9-1-1 and a lot of what we practiced is exactly what the ATC in the second part had to do - getting the caller to actual *say* what is going on by asking a lot small, step-by-step questions. Very similar skill sets, I suspect.
Flight attendants love turbulence because they get to see fear on the face of customers that were just rude to them
"Karen's not so snotty now, is she?" 😁
@@avengingmime "it's ok Karen, it'll be all over soon"
That's not true + I was trained by Pan Am. I assume you're joking. Reassuring passengers is a big part of the job.
Kelsey thanks for all you do, love watching your videos and really appreciate the level of detail, keep it up!
thanks will glad you are enjoying it!
Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge. I grew up flying in them. I do have a fear of heights but never had issues with being on a plane or looking out of one.
My flight instructor specifically told me to say "identify and request". Glad to hear other pilots say that it's ok to state the actual request along with it.
I would say that's good unless the frequency is very busy and you need to just get a quick cold call out to ATC with just your identifier.
one of my jobs involves radio communications, and some of the trainers I've seen teaching radio communication irritate the heck out of me because they teach bad habits. in radio communication, it's important to get to the point, and then get off the air in case other people need to communicate. also, even if you aren't talking in code, keywords, like "Bravo Charlie" are important because they let you transmit a lot of information with just a couple words.
short and sweet but clear in what you are saying... like anything it takes training
Same, I did 10 months conscript training as a radio specialist in a mortar platoon, then 6 years as a platoon radio operator volounteer in the national defence militia.
In both of those roles, short, precise and consistant transmissions are essential as most transmissions concern sitreps, tactical orders, medevac requests, listening for map references to manually update the sitmap or reciving indirect fire mission data when data transmissions isn't coming through to the ballistics computer.
Agree about being concise but FEMA and DHS frown on radio codes as they are different in every industry and department and have led to many failed emergency responses
@@74gear my dad taught me, figure out what you want to say, and then figure out the least number of words you can say it in.
@N Fels isn't it great when you don't need a "red team" to make things difficult for your team.
A pilot friend of mine, while in the Air Force picked up languages easily. The US Embassy recruited him and he flew for them for years. Near the end of his life, he told me he spoke 9 languages fluently and was able to make conversation in 27 languages. I was amazed how much knowledge he had accumulated.
It's not difficult...
that’s awesome. I’m sort of the same, except I only speak 1 language, but I only hang out with dumb guys, so I just lie about stuff like knowing a ton of languages and they have no idea I’m tricking them it’s awesome haha
@@severalwolves I'm not sure that's the same thing...
R.I.P.
@@isladurrant2015having fun typing that from your crusty Cheetos covered keyboard bud?
3:56 Kelsey, my lad, that's because they can just sit down, strap in and skip serving us peanuts xD
Surprised he didn't know this
Was just going to post this, lol.
if you could hear the way they say it... it just sounds like thats not the case
@@74gear maybe a roller coaster addiction too XD
@@74gear maybe a bit of both?
I’m one of the weirdo’s that loves turbulence, more the reactions of people around me than the actual turbulence. BUT for some reason I do enjoy as a passenger going through turbulence.
I'm not a fan of turbulence, but I do find it funny when passengers hold their breath due to turbulence or a go-around, when they were so brave when boarding the plane.
And I find it funny how everyone queues up to board the plane even before it's open for boarding. Evenyone wants to get in there ASAP, even though all the seats have been pre-assigned and you're not gonna depart earlier than the other pasengers. And I'm like: _"you put all this efford into sitting down in this 373 with no leg room ASAP, and now you're complaining about turbulence?"_
I wouldn't mind it so much if it didn't make me hurl. One time decending into SFO, it was roller-coaster turbulent. I was focusing my eyes outside on the horizon to avoid the inevitable, when the flight attendant came on the PA and told everyone where the bags were. It took everything in me to avoid throwing up. Thankfully, I made it down without doing so.
Me too
Free roller coasters rides, am I right?
@@AaronShenghao Was just about to say the same!
Absolutely - yes.
Such fun!
Kelsey, you mentioned the controllers being on "land lines" a lot of the time. Controllers have dedicated "land lines" to other facilities such as Air Traffic Control centers, airports etc. They just punch a button at their position, and it rings the facility, then when someone answers the controller talks to them on his headset.
He was being sarcastic
Imagine having 20 mins of fuel left and the tower having to coax that information out of you over 2 minuets of calm conversation lol
I'm guessing the pilots in the last video were regulars in the area, and it seems to me the controller would ask the reason for the reroute more to know if it is something ATC needs to be aware of; so the pilots saying it was because of the dining options, meant that they just wanted to change their route for personal reasons, and the ATC didn't need to worry about hazards.
This lesson applies to life in general as well. Ploughing on alone because you want to fix the problem yourself often leads to disaster. Equally, cultivating an environment in which this is seen as the preferred option ("Don't bring me problems, bring me solutions!" etc.) is dangerous.
I was once on a 6hr night flight that spent at least half its time flying in rough turbulence. Personally I'm okay with turbulence, but for me it was one heck of an experience flying in a lightning storm (my plane was struck by lightning a few times). The reason was because sitting on my left side was a lady that was freaking out about the rough flight, on the other was a retired hurricane hunter who had a lot of experience flying into hurricanes. The hurricane Hunter was trying his best to help calm the woman, but his stoic attitude (him enjoying the turbulence) and his attempt to convince the woman that the turbulence wasn't that bad by telling her about all the times he nearly died flying into hurricanes. It was by far one of the most surreal things I ever saw.
In order to reduce the confusion of people speaking different languages, we got some new regulations a while back over here in Norway prohibiting the use of any other language than English on the air net. With this, the Norwegian radiotelephony terminology was removed. Of course, some people still like speaking Norwegian over the air net, but all standard RTF is in English. I rarely hear people speak Norwegian for standard RTF calls, so Norwegian is used more for general talk or smalltalk etc.
same in Italy. They just say ciao, buongiorno and arrivederci as greetings "just to be italians" lol, but all communications are in english
That rule was actually put in place by Eurocontrol at all international airports in Europe after the crash at Paris Charles de Gaulle airport in 2000, when the ATC issued a conditional clearance to a British crew, who weren't fully able to understand which aircraft the condition was relating to, and entered an active runway at an intersection after an arriving aircraft, which they mistook for the aircraft the condition was related to, passed that intersection. The problem was that the arriving traffic had already vacated at that point and there was a French MD-83 at the threshold, which was the actual aircraft the condition was related to, already rolling after being cleared for take off in French, so because of the mixing of languages by ATC the Brits had no idea that the MD-83 was rolling and entered the runway and proceeded to collide with the said MD-83 killing the co-pilot of the British plane. After that the only acceptable phraseology around Europe is the English one from the 'controllers bible' which is the doc. 4444.
@@axel995r Yeah, doesn't seem to many countries have ratified that EASA regulation yet
@@Henoik Maybe around the world, but as far as I know, in Europe it's mandatory for every country that is a member of Eurocontrol, which is pretty much every country.
@@axel995r I'm speaking about Europe as well. Even though EASA forces each country to use standardized English RTF, this is still an issue in both the Netherlands, France, Spain, Poland, and pretty much all the Baltic countries.
I feel like this goes without saying, the pilot is ultimately responsible for the plane crew and passengers. They can make any decicion needed to keep them safe if required.
Okay, so I got nothing to do with planes, flew just two times in my entire life and never knew I had any interest into how piloting an aircraft works and what it is like to be a pilot.
And now I'm sitting here, having just watched over three hours of your videos and there is no end in sight. I'm even thinking about putting my HOTAS (got it for Elite Dangerous) to use and try out Microsoft Flight Simulator. Your channel is AMAZING!
Honestly I was under the impression you pilots were a bunch of guys having their noses up in the wind like some doctors while being not much more than glorified bus drivers. Today that changed drastically because of you giving me an impression of how complex your job really is and seeming to be a very grounded (pun intended) and straight up guy who is not afraid to tell us about his mistakes, while one can still see that you indeed are a professiional. I like that really much. I'm happy I stumbled upon your channel. And yes, I do realize I may have to work on my prejudices. :p Keep up the good work!
Best regards from germany! :)