We were working on a sequel to SCR back in 2003. The physics engine was an exact algorithmic port of Geoff's old Amiga Assembler code. We had it running on PC, PS2 and original Xbox and it really felt like the original even though it never dropped below 60 FPS. Seeing this it seems that even the C64 version must have used the same algorithm.
Yes, I can confirm this. I looked at the Amiga disassembly as well as a recent C++ port of it while reverse engineering the C64 logic, and it became clear very early on that they are nearly identical.
its VERY playable and responsive even in low fps, I suspect the physics engine runs at higher fps and reacts to joy inputs, while the screen is updated more slowly.
Never had this game, but I did play Stellar 7 a lot because I had a Schnedler TurboMaster accelerator in 1990 which made the game go from stock 7 fps to nearly 30 fps. The Schnedler also made some other games faster, but sometimes too fast & sometimes not at all. It really made GEOS64 more perky & usable too. And this was nearly a decade (~7 years) before the SuperCPU came out. I still have that accelerator & all my C64's & its stuff (peripherals, cartridges, disks, printouts, magazines, catalogs) to this day.
Nice! I wonder how many other games could be improved like this? Elite, Driller, Hard Drivin' and The Sentinel come to mind... It's amazing what 2000% more processing speed can do...
On another register, see also the recent cracks by Nostalgia of goldbox games optimized to EasyFlash, such as Buck Rogers - Countdown to Doomsday; Pool of Radiance; Curse of the Azure Bonds and Secret of the Silverblades, or the marvellous one of the legendary game PSI 5 Trading Company (one sided, fast load, all missions...). No disk swap!!
Please do all the 3D stuff - Fighter Bomber, Gunship, Stealth Fighter, Driller, etc. ❤ Update: OMG! There already are SCPU versions of some of these...
Looks better then the Amiga 500 (68k). I really loved this on my Amiga 500 though, but on my A1200 (030 accelerator) it really rocked (still not 50 fps maybe though). The sound on the Amiga was way better though, they could have done a better job with SID... more low grunt...
This is beautiful... I would have loved to play this game on my Amiga 500 at this frame rate (I know it couldn't do it)... I've played this game on an accelerated Amiga with a 28MHz (68030) processor, and it was certainly fun, but it was obviously sped up, and everything was faster than normal... But this? This kind of re-tooling of the code would have been so great to play on accelerated Amigas back in the day. Same overall gameplay, just with a better frame rate... EXCELLENT WORK.
Impressive, almost like the Amiga version, but so few people have an actual Super CPU it's kind of pointless. I really loved the Amiga 500 version back in the day, I think this was the first 3D home computer game that was actually fun to play.
It's not limited to the SCPU though, any turbo solution should be fine, since this version only needs the high CPU clock frequency. I've heard back of someone playing it with U64, for instance.
Look at that ai of the opponent, it not usual for games of this era to have opponents that behave like humans would. usually the opponents behaved erratically, too easy or too difficult.
very cool although to be fair a lot of the weight you feel from the slower C64 version is lost here although this is to be expected. It looks too smooth for the original physics and comes off as a little odd. Very cool but definitely odd. The original C64 version seemed as if the physics were almost the very ones from the 16bit such is their uncanny characteristics
How about the performance on a original commodore 64. Do you think it could have run faster with further optimization? I understand that you don't have the time to do that but I always wondered if anything more could have been done or if it's already as good as it gets. Nice job! 🙂
Yes, I think it could potentially get at least a 50% speed-up, but that would require a serious rewrite, and it would have to be adapted to cartridge to make it possible, because there's practically nothing left to squeeze out if you're limited to 64K. A cartridge version would enable some serious inlining and unrolling opportunities.
@@kaviolalainen Interesting. I actually have this on cartridge but of course it's the same as the original version. I guess even a multi load disk based version could have freed up some memory? If I only had unlimited time I would have jumped on this myself 😂
No, unfortunately I've got too much on my hands already. This work also included several weeks of studying the code before I found the right way to attack the problem.
Technically speaking you don't need SuperCPU per se. Any solution that allows you to run at 20 MHz (e.g. Ultimate 64) should work, since the code doesn't have any specific hardware requirements besides the high clock rate.
I don't think it has a turbo mode, so unfortunately not. You either need to run it in Vice (xscpu64) or one of the cartridge solutions that support a 20 MHz turbo mode (any of SCPU, U64, or TC64 should work).
This is all thanks to the fact that the physics implementation was flexible enough that the time step could be changed with relatively little work. That done, you can just throw any of the existing acceleration hardware at the code (one of which is the SuperCPU, which has been around for nearly 25 years), and it should work just fine.
Just look how much worse the framerate on an Amiga is. (Of course the graphics are still much better there. But the overall immersion is better here.) th-cam.com/video/wWCZ7lP1u6Q/w-d-xo.html
We were working on a sequel to SCR back in 2003. The physics engine was an exact algorithmic port of Geoff's old Amiga Assembler code. We had it running on PC, PS2 and original Xbox and it really felt like the original even though it never dropped below 60 FPS. Seeing this it seems that even the C64 version must have used the same algorithm.
Yes, I can confirm this. I looked at the Amiga disassembly as well as a recent C++ port of it while reverse engineering the C64 logic, and it became clear very early on that they are nearly identical.
What happened, why wasn't it released?
Can we see it please?
I loved this game when i was a child, excellent game :)
Imagine the fun if Hard Drivin' was this good.
That is the holy grail for the Amiga, unlocked framerate!
Looking fantastic on the C64.
WHDLoad version has Turbo mode.
@@kempy_nezumi Indeed, but it skips frames.
If only the stock C64 could have done this. This game actually looks playable now.
A SuperCPU just sold for 1700$ on eBay... I think I'll stick to 3FPS...
@@8BitNaptime Get an Ultimate-64. It's can clock the CPU at 48MHz
Well.. back in the day I found this playable tbh...
On my friends Amiga it was amazing tho.. ah.. those memories
its VERY playable and responsive even in low fps, I suspect the physics engine runs at higher fps and reacts to joy inputs, while the screen is updated more slowly.
@@8BitNaptime LOL CRAZY IF TRUE.
This game should run like this on any platform to be enjoyable to play
Amazing! I played the Amiga version endlessly, this is shockingly good!
upgraded hardware, the original c64 hardware was much slower, but still playable
Never had this game, but I did play Stellar 7 a lot because I had a Schnedler TurboMaster accelerator in 1990 which made the game go from stock 7 fps to nearly 30 fps. The Schnedler also made some other games faster, but sometimes too fast & sometimes not at all. It really made GEOS64 more perky & usable too. And this was nearly a decade (~7 years) before the SuperCPU came out. I still have that accelerator & all my C64's & its stuff (peripherals, cartridges, disks, printouts, magazines, catalogs) to this day.
Nice! I wonder how many other games could be improved like this? Elite, Driller, Hard Drivin' and The Sentinel come to mind... It's amazing what 2000% more processing speed can do...
On another register, see also the recent cracks by Nostalgia of goldbox games optimized to EasyFlash, such as Buck Rogers - Countdown to Doomsday; Pool of Radiance; Curse of the Azure Bonds and Secret of the Silverblades, or the marvellous one of the legendary game PSI 5 Trading Company (one sided, fast load, all missions...). No disk swap!!
So you're saying it's running at 2ghz? Rather then the satandard 1mhz
@@guts2048 2000% is just 20 * 100%.
@@jakubkrcma so it's 200mhz?
@@guts2048 20
Please do all the 3D stuff - Fighter Bomber, Gunship, Stealth Fighter, Driller, etc. ❤
Update: OMG! There already are SCPU versions of some of these...
Which ones? Don't suppose Elite has been done?
I'd be interested to see the improvement for Driller :D
Looks better then the Amiga 500 (68k). I really loved this on my Amiga 500 though, but on my A1200 (030 accelerator) it really rocked (still not 50 fps maybe though).
The sound on the Amiga was way better though, they could have done a better job with SID... more low grunt...
One big trick: you can boost brake, making you slow down much faster.
Genuinely impressive work!
I and my cousin spent a whole summer playing this masterpiece on C64 30+ years ago. Good old days...
Finally the game is playable. 😅
This is beautiful... I would have loved to play this game on my Amiga 500 at this frame rate (I know it couldn't do it)... I've played this game on an accelerated Amiga with a 28MHz (68030) processor, and it was certainly fun, but it was obviously sped up, and everything was faster than normal... But this? This kind of re-tooling of the code would have been so great to play on accelerated Amigas back in the day. Same overall gameplay, just with a better frame rate... EXCELLENT WORK.
I played the Amstrad version like crazy as a kid. If only the framerate had been half of this... it was still a very enjoyable game, though.
From this to beam ng. Wow
Impressive, almost like the Amiga version, but so few people have an actual Super CPU it's kind of pointless. I really loved the Amiga 500 version back in the day, I think this was the first 3D home computer game that was actually fun to play.
I have this for dos. I remember it played quite well on an 8088. You got me thinking about how it would fare on a 286
It's not limited to the SCPU though, any turbo solution should be fine, since this version only needs the high CPU clock frequency. I've heard back of someone playing it with U64, for instance.
Used to have two amiga’s set up with a serial cable running this for some fun two player action
what a duel
There is a Turbo Bit variant out there, where you can have similar effects with a TC64 and U64.
I haven't been able to find any variant that would actually make the physics update smoother, that's why I decided to do it myself.
This is really cool
Look at that ai of the opponent, it not usual for games of this era to have opponents that behave like humans would. usually the opponents behaved erratically, too easy or too difficult.
nie spotted, how did they fit that ai in just a few kb?
fantastic !!!
Impressive!
Amazing! 👍
very cool although to be fair a lot of the weight you feel from the slower C64 version is lost here although this is to be expected. It looks too smooth for the original physics and comes off as a little odd. Very cool but definitely odd.
The original C64 version seemed as if the physics were almost the very ones from the 16bit such is their uncanny characteristics
1MHz vs 4800Mhz currently
64,000 B RAM vs 16,000,000,000 Bytes of RAM
8 bit vs 64 bit instructions
65,536 bytes of RAM 😉
Did you see Doom on C64 SuperCPU ?
Yep, it's quite wild! I wonder how fast it could run if it was hand-coded instead of recompiled from MIPS.
awesome, better than 16-bit versions
It's no true. Why?
@@ncc2000 The most obvious reason should be that it's running way smoother.
It could be possible to do a pistorm for c64 for people who can't get a super cpu.
Was there any 128( 2mhz) version of Stunt Car Racer?
I don't think so. The original certainly doesn't take advantage of the turbo bit.
Jesus!
How about the performance on a original commodore 64. Do you think it could have run faster with further optimization? I understand that you don't have the time to do that but I always wondered if anything more could have been done or if it's already as good as it gets. Nice job! 🙂
Yes, I think it could potentially get at least a 50% speed-up, but that would require a serious rewrite, and it would have to be adapted to cartridge to make it possible, because there's practically nothing left to squeeze out if you're limited to 64K. A cartridge version would enable some serious inlining and unrolling opportunities.
@@kaviolalainen Interesting. I actually have this on cartridge but of course it's the same as the original version. I guess even a multi load disk based version could have freed up some memory? If I only had unlimited time I would have jumped on this myself 😂
Wow please make this magic trick to Revs+ too!
Could be fun, but I have already way too many other things on by backlog. Maybe in 20 years! ;)
@@kaviolalainen
Sort of looks like the Atari xl version now ; )
Nice work! Any chance you could patch Elite for the SuperCPU?
No, unfortunately I've got too much on my hands already. This work also included several weeks of studying the code before I found the right way to attack the problem.
Great work, though would like to see it on actual hardware though. I don't have SuperCPU either, so :/
Technically speaking you don't need SuperCPU per se. Any solution that allows you to run at 20 MHz (e.g. Ultimate 64) should work, since the code doesn't have any specific hardware requirements besides the high clock rate.
Is there a C++ or a python clone of SCR with a source code available?
Can this run on TheC64 Maxi?
I don't think it has a turbo mode, so unfortunately not. You either need to run it in Vice (xscpu64) or one of the cartridge solutions that support a 20 MHz turbo mode (any of SCPU, U64, or TC64 should work).
holy shit, how is this possible?
This is all thanks to the fact that the physics implementation was flexible enough that the time step could be changed with relatively little work. That done, you can just throw any of the existing acceleration hardware at the code (one of which is the SuperCPU, which has been around for nearly 25 years), and it should work just fine.
Is game work faster on C128 or normal ?
It doesn't use the 2MHz mode of the C128.
Just look how much worse the framerate on an Amiga is. (Of course the graphics are still much better there. But the overall immersion is better here.)
th-cam.com/video/wWCZ7lP1u6Q/w-d-xo.html
Castle Master would benefit drom this treatment too. Awesome game but slow as hell on C64
I thought Freescape games were already fairly playable in turbo mode.
Amazing!!