Series 1 Episode 4: When Jim met Sue
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ส.ค. 2024
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Professor Susan Blackmore, Visiting Professor at the University of Plymouth and author of several books on Consciousness, Parapsychology and Memes meets non-duality teacher Jim Newman.
This playful, feisty dialogue explores the value of suffering; spirituality; retreats; the illusion of a self; nothing happening here; false reality; ridding oneself of spirituality; seeking; that which can't be known; form and emptiness; intellectual understanding; suffering is seeking; separating the two kinds of seeking; favourite colour; is 'what is it like to be you?' a meaningful question; Nagel's famous paper; Chalmers' hard problem; how does the brain construct this illusion?; the muddle of consciousness studies; is there something for the bat; nothing actually really happens; once there was a boy; how can we do science then?; the endeavour does not come from the individual; why does the universe make sense?; taking responsibility!; there is no progress; materialist or not; nothingness; the heart sutra; it's impossible to realise this; meaning and purpose; freedom is in no meaning; evolution; illusions of God the creator; just stuff happening; making yourself more accident prone to enlightenment; daily meditation; spiritual materialism; this is not a teaching; a very hard message to follow.
Susan Blackmore is at www.susanblackmore.uk/
Jim Newman is at www.simply-this.com/
0:00 Introduction to the episode with Iwan Brioc
01:56 Preamble
05:25 Who are you?
18:50 What is it like to be you?
37:05 What is this?
41:47 Why is this?
#nonduality
#consciousness
#jimnewman
#jimnewmansimplythis
#susanblackmore
#parapsychology
#heartsutra
#formandemptiness
#neildegrassetyson - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Finally, it became obvious what Jim had been speaking for a long time.
There can’t be any comparison between Jim (who has no position and offers no illusive teaching to any separate individual self)
and all the other leftover Intellectually smart teachers on TH-cam who promises to help and enlighten the separate individual.
I just saw how 40 years of hard work and sufferings through meditation failed to produce lasting freedom for Susan.
Agreed! With all her high achievements in the world, there is not liberation.
Agreed. The answer isn't in the mind.
You are right. The mind can’t comprehend it’s own absence. Any intellectual attempt to understand the matter will fail, not matter how long you have meditated 😅
Yes, I love Jim's speaking. Perhaps its when we are very young, in the very early days before thinking starts, that we know who we really are, but can't articulate it. But later there's the sneaking sense ( in the mind) that there is something missing, but the intellect is the wrong key for the door. ( and there is no door ! )
Great conversation. You should put Jim in a room with Rupert Spira!
You should put Jim and a pink elephant in a room with Rupert Spira.
Someone already got him with Sam Harris. But I guess there is some daylight between Sam and Rupert so maybe Jim and Rupert actually would be quite different.
Non duality speakers often put him in the same boat as folks like Eckhart Tolle. Well intentioned but still reinforcing the sense that there is a self that can make progress in some way.
Absurd. Rupert has been put up against some of the biggest brains in science and spirituality and always, always grabs the ring.
They are both ‘right’. But one is a teacher and tailors the understanding to the person in front of him and one stands up and spouts ultimate truth, knowing full well hardly anyone’s mind is open enough to get it. That is not a teacher. I am a spiritual teacher myself.
3:56 Yes!! Suffering happens but there is no value in it!!!! Yes yes yes, I am So glad someone is finally saying that! Ten thousand hearts!
The intro was really the most interesting, fantastic dialog there
Agreed, biggest golden nugget of the conversation.
I’ve found immense value in suffering. It’s the best teacher there is in experiencing here.
The stove is fire hot.
(Touches it)
OUCH
A: don’t do that again
Me:ok
Love that she admits she smokes a lot of dope, lol.
My problem with this “meeting” is that these two “twains” shall never meet. She’s so deeply invested in spiritual materialism and he’s off in outer/inner space. She’s an intellectual and he’s an experiential. She (ultimately, subtly) holds off experience of the ultimate and he’s just laying back into it.
Yes
It's sad to me cause skeptics want an explanation the brick wall way.
And yet it's all a part of the whole 😊
Wow, thank you Iwan pour putting this on! Watching Jim debate or discuss non-duality is like watching your favorite politician 'stick it' to the establishment. The most brilliant example of this occurred at approximately 48:56, when, in reference to Susan Blackmore's assertion that mediation or other spiritual practices aren't guaranteed to bring about enlightenment, but do make it more likely ("accident prone"), Jim countered that the dropping of the me can occur DESPITE having done meditation, thereby inadvertently (or perhaps on purpose) attacking the basis of meditation itself. This was such a shocker, and I think I may have gasped the first time, and definitely we can see that the guest was definitely thrown off her center, but played a good sport. This is what I love so much about this message: it attacks the fundamental assumptions of everything. Certainly many people are fine to hear traditional religions attacked, but to hear a message that questions the validity or usefulness of meditation, or calls into question the truth anointed sectors of society, such as science, I mean wow! Thank you Four Simple Questions for this very professional looking set and high quality recording, it's a nice boost from cellphone videos. 🙃
There's no-one to be free, only freedom. This message is either simply heard, or not and Jim Newman delivers it seamlessly. Thank you for posting. 🙏🏽
Jim shares this message so well, his words are on point!
Oh Dr Blackmore, you bite your tongue with grace. I feel it, the intellectual dissatisfaction and frustration.
An intellectual with nothing to grasp. It reminds me of an Alan Watts analogy. She'd be able to float in the water with ease if only she'd stop clawing at it.
The intellect/mind is the trap. Theres no objective truth in the mind. And the doctor is looking/searching for truth in an infinite maze that can never be solved. Its fun and interesting but youll never get anywhere.
FOR ME, THIS 'SERIES OF QUESTIONS/CONVERSATIONS' GOES BACK TO THE '70S, SUE SHOWS HOW 'LEARNING' ENSLAVES
Absolutely.
I find it painful listening to her mind.
'Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.' - Wittgenstein, who had a hope that speaking could be limited to that which can be spoken of.
thanks for your great feedback. cheers.
I loved this. And the opening was a great analogy as well. Regardless of the side you agree with, their conversation led to more conversation here. And no one in my day-to-day cares about this, so cheers 🍻
It's amazing how much the mind sidesteps around the obvious. Thank you.
Seeing there is no seperate self should not necessarily mean that all meaning attached to separation needs to be totally discarded. It is enough to see through it.
There comes a time when the one who's lost in emptiness after seeing through his non-existent self, returns to the world and lives in the world but recognizes he is not of the world. Such a person does not have many hard and fast opinions but sees through all opinions.
there is no such person
Such a person is dust in the wind 💨
Must of seem exhausting just to hang out with Sue.
Listening to her was exhausting
Jim is one of the best, if not the best when it comes to having a no-nonsene conversation about non duality, his explanations get straight to the point, concise and unapologetically honest. Jim will expose your ignorance, shatter the dream you have of "Im an enlighten person" or " I want to became and enlighten person". just listen to what he has to say without any judgment or questions, just trust the message.
Your last sentence sounds like a recipe for getting brainwashed 😂
@@ccr7712 The brainwashed that everyone has is what questions this message. Be my guess and question it all you want, don't believe it, Be one with the brainwashed.
@@kalprao I would recommend to stick with rational thinking. Good luck 🍀
@@ccr7712 No buddy, good luck to you
@@ccr7712Jim’s message is nothing but rational.
What a wonderful conversation. 🙏🏻❤️
Rupert still has a slight identity dilemma. Jim will literally rattle his cage. Illuminating activity will happen.
There is no jim there is no rupert
I'm surprised you bothered to even leave a comment. But non-entities are gonna do what they do.
Jim and Rupert both know, feel and experience that there are no 'things'. Maybe they will keep silent when they meet. Maybe just smiling..😊
Great point! That would literally b beyond awesome!
@@DiogenesNephew ah so youre better than everyone 😝 coz youre not a non entity lol there is no you my friend
This should be 4 hours long, loved it ❤
agreed!
it should? lol
She complains about the color purple though she has dyed her hair purple? Wtf?
Thought she was non-linear ironic 😂
I see colored hair like that and I immediately think "crazy leftist"
Excellent talk. The message is fantastic! Great to hear from Jim! 😁☯👍
If it can't be known, how does he Know that nothing is happening and it can't be known?
What He means is that only the individual can know and there is no individual to know so it is an unknown
Another great video - thank you! It would be interesting to have a brief interview with each participant after the conversation to get their impressions, thoughts, etc.
Thanks, great idea.
How dare nothing turn my mind into a pretzel. I loved it.
This was the best thing I have seen on TH-cam maybe ever. So very rich! Thank you.
I agree. And particularly now when their seems to me to be an overwhelming amount of uninteresting non dual related nonsense to weed through. Just so much nonsense being spewed. Clicks, I guess. Sorta like searching for good info on the internet. So much marketing and junk that one may never find the answer to the question they’ve ask.
It’s interesting to me that Sue had this insight into no self and the Zen teacher told her to take responsibility aka recreate a sense of self and agency.
Self rooted in no self is self or no self.
Jim was speaking from the illusionary individual experience, not the non dual. In the non dual, there is no individual to experience to take responsibility of.
This was great, Loved them both.
Thanks for these interviews! Looking forward to the next one!
Very entertaining! Thank you😊
Brilliant. Thank you.
How beautiful, thanks for sharing 😊
Thank you Jim and Sue - great conversation🌝 - unlike the conversation between Jim and Sam, which was like having teeth pulled.
Thank you Richard, would like to invite you to take the @foursimplequestions challenge too at some point.
Ha, that's the exact phrase I put to Jim when we talked about that particular interview.
Fabulous infinite gratitude
Two of my favourite people to listen to can't wait to watch this video!
Really great. I have been looking forward to a 1:1 conversation with Jim. Thanks
This is great fun! 🎉 😊
Wonderful content. Please keep it going…!
Delightful conversation that never happened. Enjoyed and Subscribed. Thank You 👍🙏
Thank you so much ❤
Compassion is the value of suffering
Thank you
Compassion implies two. There is only one.
@@patriciagray5173 one implies a number. It is not a number.
@@Tasmanaut Yes, if taken literally. "One" beyond one...."All." Language! :)
Jim is so simple, like life itself. Sue feels like an agitated mind desperately trying to prove its existence and not to die. bot beautiful and innocent, done by no one. it's just what's happening. thank you!
I’m so excited to watch this!!
Aw thats so cute 😂
thank you sir!
Jim sounds like someone who has created a fortress around himself, defended by a set of stock semantic phrases that close down the actual living breathing moving reality he professes to be in touch with. He plays his intellectual sidestep and shuffle at every question. It is utterly impregnable but manifests as deeply alienated and defended and devoid of the real qualities that manifest after awakening of compassion, loving kindness and wisdom. He's trapped in a conceptual loop of his own making....this is what appears apparently here as a none appearance.
I think Jim just has a few messages in attempt to point to the Ultimate. It seems more like Sue trapped in mental loops…
S
sad display he is making
Excellent. You said it better than I could. He often denies an intelligent question by going back to stock responses of ‘unknowable, is/isnt, can’t be known’ etc. He has ego attachment by needing to be in control at his meetings. He has to shout over someone or simply dismisses their questions. He learned his approach and result from Tony Parsons which tells me is acquired rather than experienced and there is a fakeness to it. He is also dismissive of other enlightened beings, which is a pity and smacks of ego at play.
@@johnmc3862 there is no enlightened beings...
Nothing here regrets the guru trip…loved it
Seems like neither of them considers the possibility, that they may be completely
wrong about this. When there is clear understanding regarding this, then it’s clear that that’s always a possibility. Either they are not comprehending it fully, or maybe just big egos 😂😂😂.
Brilliant
Great chat
It appears that Sue as never given up her purple and gray.
I’d say it’s worth remembering that Jim Newman is, in a sense, an ‘apprentice’ of Tony Parsons…always worth going back to Tony imo although I like listening to Jim too
He is just re-hashing most of what Tony says. He is ‘book read’ enlightened in my opinion.
simply brilliant!!
Thank you so much for putting these two together. Absolutely loved the discussion! ❤️
Valueable conversation. I would like to see Rupert Spira explaning this to the professor.
Every coin has two sides. Just make sure it's not counterfeit. This was was the real deal.
Whenever someone claims the highest understanding for whatever reason people have a tendency to accept it blindly.
Are you referring to one of the two here? If so, how do you mean?
Golden..
Poor Susan, the character is lost in "me"
Love you from Israel ❤
This is all very interesting. From my point of view, the questions are far easier to answer. I am alive with and coexisting with all other life forms around me at the time of writing this. I am temporary and dependent on the natural systems which make life possible. My soul or spirit is living energy that is housed temporarily inside a human body. I experience life and react in alignment and interaction with many others as a small part of a very large human society construct. Here, I choose between available opportunities within my capability and overshoot. What this is is a cycle of life on a planet with limited resources for existence. All humanity will end with time, and we will take many other species with us. We are part of a natural system on a planet, attempting world and universe domination, yet living fragile and finite as apex predatory beings.
I do like her. She's a great prosecutor and doesn't let anything go by.
"Non-duality teacher" LOL. Jim's hair would stand up if he read that.
Great!! But Jim is not a teacher... he remarks that over and over when he is sharing ❤🎉
Quite right! My mistake. Non-Duality Speaker, perhaps?
@@foursimplequestions He is nothing at all, but just this time for you since you are a beginner you can hold on to that.
@@foursimplequestions I liked the metaphor about the black hole. That was one of the best things I heard in a long time.
The amount of egoity you encounter on non-duality videos is so ironic and amusing. Half the comments are just people saying why their favorite teacher is better than the next guy’s favorite teacher and how teacher x would embarrass teacher y and reveal their ignorance.
hahahah i know right
Great stuff
Cordiality and loveliness may hide hypocrisy too, so why not express rawness?
And why should you have the preconceived framework on how a conversation or expression should look like? LOL, get comfy with your own taste and don't bark about how things should be according to your taste. That was a great conversation and the majority of people didn't find egotism the way you're describing.
😂😂
Oh how beautifully stated, concise and to the point! I know, you are absolutely right, and the worst are the ones that repeat, like some pitiful zombie, something that was said---it feels hollow and pathetic. 😄
Jim precludes the effects of turning one's attention to the selfing activity of the mind as THE process that unravels the illusion of self. There is a way.
The only truthful thing we can say is "I don't know"
The brain does not construct anything. Just like a car does not take you anywhere. Vehicles such as body/mind are the means in which life experiences itself. What is life, you may ask?? Don’t know I answer ! Besides life has not finished it’s journey. Knowing the known and knower is enough for now, how else could it be?
Thanks 👍
I think there's definetly a process going on before anyone can have their 'moment' of waking up - a line. Before and after that line.. Jim did lots of meditation himself. I think it's unhelpful to assume you can just be however you are right now and expect anything to happen. I believe inner work is most often necessary before you can have nondual awareness. Possibly a few rare brains might wake up spontaneously, but that's very rare indeed.
Seeking union with all that is is such a silly activity when you think about it.
Do John Vervaeke and Rupert Spira next please!! 🎉❤
This is fertile ground. Psychologists who believe their own story should tread very lightly. You, in particular, cannot win any argument at these highest of levels of discernment/observation. Only the philosopher has any chance at all. And yes, everything dual must be zero sum. Good question young jedi.
Top
Lol Blackmore, I wrote her an email when I was doing PhD at Plymouth university too....such a weird mix of two random people
Talk about passive aggressive! LOL
Its her ego
Mrs Blackmore...
"The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao"
A prime example of someone who experiences vs the academic. Academic despite her farm house stories and tales of shifts in being. Peace n Love to All 🕉
11:10 - 12:15 Jim goes on a non-dual which even confuses himself. How is Jim so happy to describe something which ‘can’t be known’ but he is okay to mention it. How does he know it so clearly if it can’t be known or even defined.
Another banger by Jim
Stock, dismissive responses. Unknowable, can’t be known, simply this etc.
I completely understand Jim Newman. Does this mean I'm enlightened ? Ha !
So we all pack up and go home? You either get struck by nonexistent lightning or you don’t? This may be true but being told we are abjectly helpless is pretty depressing. 🤷🏻♂️😕🙏
home sounds nice 🙂
spontaneous laughter at the ridiculous nature of the paradox is the most obvious appearance of one who is not there :).
You know, I have a problem with some of the language Jim uses, it's a little clumsy or confusing. I appreciate that he is beyond caring, it's just that when he refers to his being as 'nobody' or 'no one' it comes across as silly or at worst mentally ill. I'd go so far as to suggest, 'dressing it up' a bit, maybe just have a slightly different choice of words for the phenomena so that it communicats the idea better rather than coming across as mental illness, lol. He's not wrong though
I think it's interesting the the 'buddha' often referred to himself as the Tathāgata, meaning 'one who has thus gone', also 'one who has thus come'. I guess it's very similar language really, lol
This kinda reminds me of the Krishnamurti/Iris Murdoch dialog which you can also find on TH-cam. It’s kind of a 21st Century version of that. Btw, hasn’t she dyed her hair purple?
What did "I" learn?.... We need non-duality, neuroscience, philosophy, stories, meaning. But I also learned that there's an individual that believes it's real and changes but doesn't know it's changing in this big illusion.🙏🏼🙌🧠🤯❤️🔥😂 Also, I see the irony here. I see a little of Søren Kierkegaard philosophy. 🙏🏼
cool
Amazing Intro 😅😁🍻
The intro was everything 😊
40 years of seeking and still keeps seeking... At least she took responsibility. On the other hand, Jim doesn't seem to like talking about his none existent self or the appearance illusion. Nevertheless, good conversation indeed.
Nisargedatta be like- it is prior to all this babble
❤
Rupert and jim agree on "no self" but apart from that there is no meeting point. Major point is consciousness which jim does not agree. I think rupert will not come for the meeting since I have noticed he does not participate in meetings where discussion is on nothingness
to put it simple we are absolutely living in a simulation the frames give rise to event happening
Like others have said I'd love to see Jim and Rupert Spira but it would be good to get another "neo advaita" teacher to speak with Spira instead. Tony Parson, Andreas Muller or Kenneth Madden perhaps.
I'd like to think Walter Driscoll would be a great interviewer for Rupert. With guests that have teachings or methods he asks very good questions that sort of filter out the b.s.
I'm confused. I only see and hear Susan speaking toward an empty chair.
LOL
Scientific activity never happens to a scientist but if it does, that will b, THIS appearing as that.
only the nothingness understand the words coming out of Jim’s mouth
Exactly
What about the dinosaurs Jim if this is all there is?
Jim’s perspective doesn’t seem like one made for this world we live in. If he had a position of authority, like in government, and had to make decisions that impact millions of people, his worldview could lead to devastating consequences. I would much rather want someone completely lost in illusion who speaks of compassion and recognizes suffering of people then someone who thinks nobody is there and nothing is happening.
Those areas have been drilled.
Trying to be impartial in your metaphysics makes everything arbitrary, but what’s really arbitrary is acting as if impartiality is necessary. Our actions are meaningful because consciousness is inexorable from “meaningful experience”. What am I missing?
There’s an interesting film called who’s driving the dream bus. Have you seen it? 🤔☯
For whom is everything that can't be known?
Q: Who are you?
A : That which perceives is me.
Q : What is that which perceives?
A : It's undescribable by words. It's inconceivable by thinking.
Q : Can you use some metaphors to point to it.
A : Yes, the sky is blue, the cloud are white, the trees are green!
Q : What is it that comes?
A : That which neither comes nor goes is it!
Q : Hahaha!!! 😂😂😂
A : See! Sage Lao Tzu says - when lay people hear the Tao (Truth) they laugh loudly, otherwise it is not Tao (Truth).
😊🙏🙇♂️🌷
She knows that she is not right haha
I believe that nonduality is true in the sense that existence is automatic. However, I see a risk of missing spiritual evolution when being stuck in certain views of nonduality. The future is different than the past and there is progress and evolution.
The point of non duality is that there is no one who could evolve spiritually. The future seems different than the past, sure. But at this exact second that you're reading this, are you in the future or past? Will you ever personally experience either? No. The future seems different than the past, and there seems to be be evolution, but these things have never been experienced.
@@jaygub3607 True, it's always the present moment. I even believe that all the past is "squeezed" into the now moment. But I also think that the past is real and that the future evolves into higher spiritual levels. Many nonduality teachers seem too materialistic and mainstream to me, but I like to combine nonduality with for example esoteric spiritual teachings.
@@jaygub3607Sure there’s no entity that owns the attributes that change through evolution, but it really is possible for the mental patterns associated with each instance of consciousness to change for the better. Depression really can give way to joy and the fact that there’s no entity to evolve doesn’t change the fact that depression feels a hell of a lot worse than joy. Unless someone is going to be basking in non-dual awareness in perpetuity (which I doubt is even possible), then evolution is very important. In fact, you could argue that it’s necessary to evolve on an emotional and mental level in order to even be able to feel in touch with non-dual nature. A lot of people understand non-duality intellectually but simply cannot experience the truth of it as they are when they first hear about it.